Playing MERP back in the day was such a fun alternative to D&D. The corebook was great--but those supplements! So much details. It could be hard to find a place to put a campaign because all contain good writing and information. And the maps! Nothing, not even Darlene's famed map of Oerth--can compare to those maps of Middle Earth from ICE! So much detail! Yes, MERP is the only RPG which has done true justice to Tolkien's work.
Middle Earth is probably the most intimidating world to play in and because how relatively tight nit the Tolkien estate has been with the license it hasn't divulged into a mess like The Forgotten Realms post 3e. I think if I would run it, it would be far past Aragorn's reign as king and ruins of old Elven and Dwarven cities dot the landscape being retaken by the earth. Speaking of Rolemaster hope you have a review coming up for the recently released RMU I would like to get it but would rather see some reviews before delving head first.
4th Age would be one of my choices, too. When I have "visited" ME, it has been 2nd Age or mid-Third, so going for Fourth would be something different. Yes, RMU review coming. Books read, need to get some hands-on use under the belt to properly prepare.
Great video! I loved Merp and played it in the 80s, now I run C7s Adventures in Middle Earth, which I find to be closer to the source material. Merp had some awesome modules, but spider-riding goblins and spellslinging adventurers walk on a thin line of what is believable in M.E. Recently got TOR but haven't tried it yet. Cheers!
If wolves, then why not spiders! But I can understand the trepidation. I do think that, where folks have gone full-bore Rolemaster with Middle-earth, it does step over the line. But, for me, those elements are not so unbelievable. If you stick by The Hobbit and LotR alone, which is the case for current licences, then magic-user PCs does seem off. When you consider the peripheral information, too - which includes greater hints towards certain individuals' capabilities - not so much. For me, whatever reason the holders of Tolkien's materials are using to exclude The Silmarillion et al from licences, I believe this is a mistake. Your mileage may vary!
Small wonder you were intimidated about making this video. Middle Earth is to the fantasy genre what 'Treasure Island' is to the pirate genre. They're both filled with cliche after cliche after cliche. Then you realize they're not cliches; they're the original sources that you can trace all the rivers of cliches back to. Despite its popularity, Middle Earth is a place where sadness hangs in the air. It's filled with characters who remember wonderful things that are now long gone, and future potentials that will now never be. Your video made me realize that the state of role-playing in Middle Earth is currently in the same situation. (Depressing, but at least there's hobbits to lighten the mood.)
That sadness, as you put it, I believe to be deliberate. We see the same in tales such as Beowulf - great heroics, but ultimately doomed. And there's no hobbits for comic relief there! You are right, of course. There is a sense of loss permeating especially the elves. For me, it is personified in the figure of Galadriel. She was witness to the Kin-slaying (at least, it's aftermath), walked to Middle-earth across Helcaraxë, was present during the War of Wrath, witnessed the fall of the kingdoms of Men, and constantly refused to "return home". Until, of course, she figured that the world was considerably less than she wished it to be. She is one figure, at least, both The Rings of Power (love it or hate it) and Peter Jackson's works get pretty much right - a powerful, ancient woman with an inner rage that, by the time we see her in LotR, she has learned to put a serene outer shell around. Love your comment regarding cliché. Absolutely on-point. In so many genres of literature and music, and art in general, we are so many generations past the origin that the origin itself seems derived. Of course, much of LotR was derived, with it's echoes of Germanic myth among others. But Tolkien does a masterful job of weaving those elements together many just take them for granted these days, and. chuck LotR in the "cliché" bin. Such is life!
For sure, the loss of ICE was a blow to Middle Earth Roleplaying. Fortunately I am of an age where I have accumulated quite a collection of the original ICE material. Most of which I don't even know I have.
I feel that sentiment. A lot of old modules etc. are stored in boxes under a table - only on days of pure lucidity could I hope to remember everything that's in them!
Too true. It is a good, solid set of rules, even if it does suffer from the usual ICE rulebook organisation issues. Nothing unsurmountable, once you're used to it!
Between listening to this and a recent review from Dravenswiftbow, I now want to play in Middle Earth! Your tone some might call gatekeeping, but I call educating. Middle Earth is special for a reason, and all you did was ask people respect that to get the most out of it. Cheers to that.
At this point I think the term is just being used by people that want to figuratively concrete over everything, and don't like being told "no, that's not good". Anyway - I'm glad to have at least partially inspired you to want to visit Middle-earth through gaming! If you do make it there, I hope you enjoy it 🙂
Good stuff! This video serves to remind me that I really do enjoy the original books and setting... and that I would not mind gaming there. I think over the years I've been put off by D&D wontonly borrowing elements of it (and everything else) with little or no context... pouring it all into a huge pot of goulash that lacks focus or flavor... and also the movies, which added unnecessary elements while dropping stuff I would have preferred get screen time. Dedicated settings are not the trend these days, it seems, where it's expected that Players should be able to bring whatever they like to the table... "Psychic catgirls in The Shire? Sure... who am I to be a 'gatekeeper'?" But as much as I also love kitchen sink weirdness (Arduin!) I can also see and enjoy the extensive value in NOT doing that sort of thing all the time, of having deep lore and a firm expanse to explore in (not randomly generated at the moment of discovery).
Indeed. I'm not using the term "kitchen sink fantasy" in a derogatory way, but it does seem to be the norm for game settings. I always found it more fascinating to be able to understand the "why" behind a race, species, or culture, rather than it just be at a level of "because purple furred centaur werefoxes are kewl". I don't consider it gatekeeping - just being true to a concept.
@@WillyMuffinUK Yeah, I only used 'gatekeeping' because it's a likely buzzword that will come up if you won't allow purple haired dragon nymphs as a playable race.
I really loved MERP, it was my first foray into TTRPGs. I feel like it perfectly captured the feel of Middle-earth while expanding on its lore.
The ICE authors did a wonderful job, no doubt there.
You can bury me in those maps.
I still find stuff hidden in Fenlon's hills to this day. Just gorgeous work.
Very good video, I played MERP by Iron Crown Enterprises. I played 4 different game systems by ICE.
They have some good ones. I've yet to cover MERP here, but I've done a couple on Rolemaster so far.
I enjoy all of Willy Muffin videos
Thank-you 🙂
Fantastic dive into Middle Earth!
Thank-you 🙂
Playing MERP back in the day was such a fun alternative to D&D. The corebook was great--but those supplements! So much details. It could be hard to find a place to put a campaign because all contain good writing and information. And the maps! Nothing, not even Darlene's famed map of Oerth--can compare to those maps of Middle Earth from ICE! So much detail! Yes, MERP is the only RPG which has done true justice to Tolkien's work.
I'm glad I'm not alone in thst opinion 🙂
Middle Earth is probably the most intimidating world to play in and because how relatively tight nit the Tolkien estate has been with the license it hasn't divulged into a mess like The Forgotten Realms post 3e. I think if I would run it, it would be far past Aragorn's reign as king and ruins of old Elven and Dwarven cities dot the landscape being retaken by the earth.
Speaking of Rolemaster hope you have a review coming up for the recently released RMU I would like to get it but would rather see some reviews before delving head first.
4th Age would be one of my choices, too. When I have "visited" ME, it has been 2nd Age or mid-Third, so going for Fourth would be something different.
Yes, RMU review coming. Books read, need to get some hands-on use under the belt to properly prepare.
@@WillyMuffinUK Awesome keep up the good work king!
Great video! I loved Merp and played it in the 80s, now I run C7s Adventures in Middle Earth, which I find to be closer to the source material. Merp had some awesome modules, but spider-riding goblins and spellslinging adventurers walk on a thin line of what is believable in M.E. Recently got TOR but haven't tried it yet.
Cheers!
If wolves, then why not spiders! But I can understand the trepidation. I do think that, where folks have gone full-bore Rolemaster with Middle-earth, it does step over the line. But, for me, those elements are not so unbelievable.
If you stick by The Hobbit and LotR alone, which is the case for current licences, then magic-user PCs does seem off. When you consider the peripheral information, too - which includes greater hints towards certain individuals' capabilities - not so much.
For me, whatever reason the holders of Tolkien's materials are using to exclude The Silmarillion et al from licences, I believe this is a mistake.
Your mileage may vary!
A great setting that needs its own game.
It has! Quite a few now...
@@WillyMuffinUKoops..somehow i commented here instead of Dark Sun video. lol.
@@temmy9 Hah! Makes sense now 🤣
Small wonder you were intimidated about making this video. Middle Earth is to the fantasy genre what 'Treasure Island' is to the pirate genre. They're both filled with cliche after cliche after cliche. Then you realize they're not cliches; they're the original sources that you can trace all the rivers of cliches back to.
Despite its popularity, Middle Earth is a place where sadness hangs in the air. It's filled with characters who remember wonderful things that are now long gone, and future potentials that will now never be. Your video made me realize that the state of role-playing in Middle Earth is currently in the same situation. (Depressing, but at least there's hobbits to lighten the mood.)
That sadness, as you put it, I believe to be deliberate. We see the same in tales such as Beowulf - great heroics, but ultimately doomed. And there's no hobbits for comic relief there!
You are right, of course. There is a sense of loss permeating especially the elves. For me, it is personified in the figure of Galadriel. She was witness to the Kin-slaying (at least, it's aftermath), walked to Middle-earth across Helcaraxë, was present during the War of Wrath, witnessed the fall of the kingdoms of Men, and constantly refused to "return home". Until, of course, she figured that the world was considerably less than she wished it to be. She is one figure, at least, both The Rings of Power (love it or hate it) and Peter Jackson's works get pretty much right - a powerful, ancient woman with an inner rage that, by the time we see her in LotR, she has learned to put a serene outer shell around.
Love your comment regarding cliché. Absolutely on-point. In so many genres of literature and music, and art in general, we are so many generations past the origin that the origin itself seems derived. Of course, much of LotR was derived, with it's echoes of Germanic myth among others. But Tolkien does a masterful job of weaving those elements together many just take them for granted these days, and. chuck LotR in the "cliché" bin. Such is life!
For sure, the loss of ICE was a blow to Middle Earth Roleplaying. Fortunately I am of an age where I have accumulated quite a collection of the original ICE material. Most of which I don't even know I have.
I feel that sentiment. A lot of old modules etc. are stored in boxes under a table - only on days of pure lucidity could I hope to remember everything that's in them!
Excellent job. MERP has always been a criminally underrated game.
Too true. It is a good, solid set of rules, even if it does suffer from the usual ICE rulebook organisation issues. Nothing unsurmountable, once you're used to it!
The best maps for sure.....a great game.
So how could it go wrong?... RoP I am looking at you....💔
I remember that issue of White Dwarf... great cover.
@@davidbrennan660 Heh... Except for the compression of the timeline, I quite like RoP. Stabby Galadriel for the win!
Another Great video, but now I am thinking about collecting MERP...you are enabling my game collecting vice.
There are worse vices out there!
Between listening to this and a recent review from Dravenswiftbow, I now want to play in Middle Earth!
Your tone some might call gatekeeping, but I call educating. Middle Earth is special for a reason, and all you did was ask people respect that to get the most out of it. Cheers to that.
At this point I think the term is just being used by people that want to figuratively concrete over everything, and don't like being told "no, that's not good".
Anyway - I'm glad to have at least partially inspired you to want to visit Middle-earth through gaming! If you do make it there, I hope you enjoy it 🙂
Good stuff!
This video serves to remind me that I really do enjoy the original books and setting... and that I would not mind gaming there.
I think over the years I've been put off by D&D wontonly borrowing elements of it (and everything else) with little or no context... pouring it all into a huge pot of goulash that lacks focus or flavor... and also the movies, which added unnecessary elements while dropping stuff I would have preferred get screen time.
Dedicated settings are not the trend these days, it seems, where it's expected that Players should be able to bring whatever they like to the table... "Psychic catgirls in The Shire? Sure... who am I to be a 'gatekeeper'?" But as much as I also love kitchen sink weirdness (Arduin!) I can also see and enjoy the extensive value in NOT doing that sort of thing all the time, of having deep lore and a firm expanse to explore in (not randomly generated at the moment of discovery).
Indeed. I'm not using the term "kitchen sink fantasy" in a derogatory way, but it does seem to be the norm for game settings. I always found it more fascinating to be able to understand the "why" behind a race, species, or culture, rather than it just be at a level of "because purple furred centaur werefoxes are kewl". I don't consider it gatekeeping - just being true to a concept.
@@WillyMuffinUK Yeah, I only used 'gatekeeping' because it's a likely buzzword that will come up if you won't allow purple haired dragon nymphs as a playable race.
@@venusboys3 We live in an odd world, hey!