Why Everybody Hates Cosette // Les Misérables rant
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- Опубликовано: 29 янв 2025
- We're discussing one of the most iconic love triangles in the musical theatre history & a huge Broadway fan debate. Les Misérables style.
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Hi friends and welcome back to my channel! Today, we're breaking down the sides of an incredibly iconic Broadway / West End love triangle-- Team Éponine vs. Team Cosette in #LesMisérables. Of course, there is no need to pit these fictional women against eachother-- they're both iconic and wonderful in their own way-- so this video is more about understanding each side of "the debate" and and explaining why one of the most universally hated characters in the musical theatre canon (Cosette) is one of my favorites. Feel free to join the debate in the comments down below, just be respectful :)
#QOTD Which team are you on? Cosette or Éponine (as in, do you really dislike one of them? Which should end up with Marius? are you fans of both? Let me know!)
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I'm Katherine Steele and I really like musical theatre! I'm officially the unofficial Drama Club President of the internet. On this channel you'll find Broadway musical reviews, analysis on your favorite shows, first reactions to brand new ones, countdown lists for theatre actor, and tons of musical theatre audition advice! When I'm not on RUclips, I'm a professional musical theatre & screen actress and made-for-TV series host!
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Ooh yesss I'm subbing
Marius is shallow xx
Aww sweetheart - you need to read about Victor Hugo and what he saw and portrayed during his lifetime. The musical was portrayed out of a story - out of what Victor Hugo 'saw' and 'perceived'. I'm a musician, and absolutely love the musical, but please don't look too introspectively and try to justify the character roles. They were purely conceived for our entertainment.
“Why everyone hates Cosette” Me: wait we hate Cosette?
That was my exact reaction 😂
Literally me I was like " I had no idea that we hate Cosette "
That was my reaction too
I know right I didn't know that
Still, there are some people who dislikes her and romanticize one of the abuser, Eponine...
In a new musical, staring Cosette and Raoul called: Why Does Everyone Hate Us?
Raoul is a dick tho
oh my GOD I'm dying
Megolas In the original novel (and in Susan Kay’s book), I hate the man but in Andrew Lloyd Webber’s musical I think he’s a nice guy.
Juliette Veronica tea Kay’s version Roul is like 😎💦👅💪 and Webber’s is more ☺️💕✌️🙈
There's a musical about this awesome.
Whilst I do think Eponine deserves better, it shouldn't be expressed at Cosette's expense.
True
Yeah we should dislike Cosette for all the things she does. Or I suppose doesn’t. Cause she does nothing the entire time.
That's fair to say.
A thought: part of the reason why Eponine is trying to do good in her adulthood is her residual guilt for being so terrible to Cosette when they were children.
Except Éponine wasn't mean to Cosette though. I was her parents, not her. The only time she did something considerably "bad" was telling her mother Cosette took a doll she had threw away. But that, in my part, was more childish behaviour than being terrible.
@@KuraDKuruta she could still have guilt though. Many people regret things they did as kids when they didn't know better. Although you can't blame Eponine, she may still feel bad
yeah but she was just a child. i dont think its her fault for doing what her parents showed her. and she is probably the greatest person in the story after jean valjean in terms of selflesness.
that's canon to the novel series
@@KuraDKuruta It was also her though. She did whatever she learned from her parents. She wasn't a good kid, but she died as a fairly good person.
Repeat after me:
Saying that Cossette stole Marius from Eponine is the same as saying that Eliza stole Alexander from Angelica.
Wait ppl say that about my sweet Eliza? But...Angelica literally gifted Ham to her
@@ollycoleman7418 No one says that about Eliza, but a lot of people hate Cossete for being basically in the same situation.
I love Eliza and cosette
Exactly. It’s their choice fully
@@thelesbianholyspirit9649 Actually i have seen some people saying Eliza stole Hamilton from Angelica.
Real reason Cosette got the guy: she’s a soprano
*rallies my fellow low alto ladies*
I love you, stranger ;-; ♡ (I'm a troubled Alto)
Ella Angel ❤️
lol i felt this
I relate too much.
Oof
“are you team eponine, team cosette, or team enjoltaire? i see you barricade boy shippers”
wow i’ve been called out
same here friend
I played Grantaire and so I am a full on Enjoltaire shipper
Same
Enjoltaire is just.. life-
Let's be real: it is super cute.
For real though, I actually really love Cosette and it’s not her fault (nor his fault) that Marius falls for her and not Eponine.
Well I agree and disagree all at once. Cosette doesn't do anything wrong, but she also doesn't do anything right either until later.
I am not forcing Marius to like Eponine, but Cosette never really shows her love to Marius, while Eponine killed herself for him.
I feel like Cosette is much more likable in the book. You see the extent of her abusive background, and remarkably, how she stays trusting and kind in spite of it. I can see how it’s hard to understand her from a limited perspective, but I really love Cosette as a character.
Yes. Musical and the Movie removed too much of her. How this poor young lady got love from her father, and becoming the icon of hope love is the amazing part of the book.
I agree with you 100% Kellie Knox. Some people keep forgetting Cosette's life was NOT sunshine and rainbows all the time just because she gets Marius in the end. Her life was pretty shitty and awful in her childhood.
unpopular opinion: cosette is a sweetheart and marius is the real boring character.
Real opinion: both of them are boring and belong together, Enjorlas is the real catch.
marius is a chaotic icon, there are no boring characters except the SEWERS.
Marius was raised by his stodgy old grandfather, so he can be excused for not being very exciting himself.
Marius in the book is a total bore, I wanted to slam his head into a wall multiple times. He's vastly improved in the musical, which is saying something.
Both of them are boring
I wasn’t aware hating Cosette was a thing. She’s such a kind and emotionally strong woman.
People hate Cosette in a similar way that they hate Cinderella.
There's this stigma about women that are similar to Cosette and Cinderella (the idea that "she could have saved herself from that situation, but she's relying on a man instead," even though that's not how domestic abuse works), and thus they prefer women like Éponine, who are spunky and relatable, and handled their situation in what people deem to be "better" than what Cosette chose to do.
@@c.elise_612 You have hit the nail dead square on the head, my friend. Society has a tendency to paint women (both fictional and real) with traditionally feminine traits as weak. Cosette and Cinderella are both incredibly strong in their own unique ways. However, because they are strong through traditionally feminine qualities and not in the tomboyish manner of Eponine, they are criticized for being weak and passive.
Tell me-- what's actually more sexist? Cause I think only supporting women if they have masculine traits is far more sexist and problematic than women being given feminine traits. The former is literally saying feminine = weak/bad
@@Callmekatielee Yes, exactly! What people fail to realise is that not every domestic abuse victim is the same. If one is able to escape and live a stable life, that doesn't mean all of them can do the same. Éponine left an abusive situation with her parents through the war and through Marius.
There was no one around to help Cosette until Valjean showed up. She had to retreat to fantasies and dreams of castles in the sky to keep herself sane throughout her childhood (Much like Cinderella retreating to dreams to cope with Slave-like conditions with her step family).
Here's where Éponine and Cosette differed.
Cosette was able to overcome her trauma, and move on with her life and become a stable, kind, and genuinely amazing human being, both physically and mentally (without revolving her life around a man, mind you). Éponine became obsessed with Marius, her first friend (and the first man/person to show her kindness in the books), and eventually drove herself to getting killed. People ignored Cosette's growth as a person because she didn't become a rugged, masculine woman who "doesn't need a man" and does things on her own.
Being feminine isn't a bad thing, just like being masculine isn't a bad thing.
Hating a woman for being kind and feminine is as sexist as hating one for having masculina traits.
To be fair though Cossette is really passive. It’s not until after she’s married that she speaks out by herself. And when she does it comes off as immature.
@@OrpheusO-je9sd that may be true, but at the same time, it's not something that should warrant this much hate. Passiveness and childishness isn't a problem with other characters, so why is it with Cosette?
“I see you barricade boy shippers.”
My senior quote😂😂
sensitive. enjolras ENJOLTAIRE
@@hannahv.soprano permets-tu?
Enjoltaire makes me uwu
Cosette should honestly have gone crazy. And she didn't. She is a SURVIVOR. And she went on to serve EVERYONE (partly, of course, due to Val Jean and privileged social place). She is so underrated
Everybody: Cosette is a little ingenue who only worries about her pretty face and nothing more.
Literally Cosette: “There are times when I catch in the silence
The sigh of a faraway song
And it sings
Of a world that I long to see
(...)
In my life
I'm no longer a child
And I yearn for the truth that you know
Of the years years ago”
I like how Cosette was presented in the French version of the musical better. At the beginning of “in my life” , instead of talking about how great her life is now that she met Marius, she is instead alone in her room, talking to the doll Valjean gifted her when he adopted her. She tells her about how she feels lucky and grateful for the life she has, but that the doll’s her only friend. In the French musical, “castle on a cloud” is about how she wishes for a prince to rescue her (and that Valjean ends up being that prince) , and in “in my life” she tells Valjean about how greatly lonely she feels, and how she wishes once again to have someone her age to talk to, and that they would be like a prince to her.
When she meets Marius at the gate, she repeats to herself “a prince”. So in short, Marius is the first person with which she feels like she can talk to, who happens to be her age, respectful and sweet. She feels like she’s saved from her lonely life where she doesn’t even know the truth about her past and her father by meeting this nice boy. Idk I think it’s sweet, I didn’t explain it as well as I wish I had by y’know
Everyone hates cosette cause she’s everything their not. Everyone sees a little bit of eponine in them so they naturally relate and or like her better.
Marlie Walker The book was written in the Romantic era. She has everything because Jean Valjean saved her from misery.
TEA
i feel so attacked rn😂
Can’t relate. I’m useless and do nothing and am a traditional girl beyond what’s probably healthy. But I still prefer Eponine.
MaMiMuMa well that’s just a bunch of presumptions about my life based on very little information..... feels a bit invasive to be honest. So how about I fill in some gaps. Im a relatively successful person of my age. Considering I have my own place to live and a job while most people my age don’t. I’m also perfectly healthy so thanks for that. But if you’re looking at the characters personalities then ask the people I know. My most defining characteristics is that im horrendously stereotypical for a girl. But more like 1950s stereotypical. If it isn’t furry, pink or frilly, I’m not interested sort of thing. And also most people know me based on the fact I’m in a relationship. I’m known as one of the two people in that relationship. Which is essentially the main point of Cosettes character in the later years. So I relate to her completely. I’m still nice, most of the time being nice gets me hurt and I love doing things for other people. I still do things. But when it comes to being someone like Eponine, it’s never going to happen. I don’t want to, I like being who I am. But Eponine is by far the more interesting and active member of the plot. Therefore more favourable
I have to say I'm team
*Women supporting other women*
heck yeah 💕
We love that for you 💞💞
The best team.
Thank you
team Grantier, in just two songs it already established a well rounded character.
People always forget Cosette had such a traumatic life as well like just because it wasn’t shown as much doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and she’s a good person and her love for Marius is so pure and genuine. I just love Cosette ❤️
Happy Holland True. If you read the book, you would get the full details.
There used to be an essay online (I think it's vanished) called "Eponine Is Not Kewl." It points out the differences between the novel and the musical, and how the novel's Eponine is a lot more unbalanced, how she and Marius are neighbors, but NOT really friends. And the novel's Marius isn't unaware of her feelings, but has no idea how to let her down easily without causing her even MORE pain, which is the last thing he wants to do. The essay also points out that Eponine's real tragedy isn't unrequited love--it's the fact that she started out a pampered, cherished child and ended up an abused pauper. There's also the observation that, "Sure, Eponine had a hard life, but so did Cosette for her first eight years, and who was the one who ran to Madame Thenardier tattling, 'Mommy, she's touching my stuff!', knowing full well it would get Cosette a beating?" (The author of this essay also wrote one defending Cosette, both in the novel and in the musical--it's also vanished.)
Jennifer Schillig Sounds quite interesting. It’s unfortunate that it is no longer online. I haven’t seen the play, but I have read the book and written a book report of it.
I watched the Les Miserables anime, it focused more on Cosette’s life with Eponine’s family, and Eponine was spoiled and Cosette was like Cinderella and made into a slave
@@JYRound Today I finished the anime. I have not read the book and I do not know if I will read it because it is even more painful. But I can say that it was an anime with a wonderful story
**compares Cosette to dry toast**
“Anyway here’s why I love cosette!”
Cosette and Eponine should dump Marius and date each other.
Naomi Marin I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: SISTER
@@abbyniloingsigh7188 Well Cosette was adopted, right? I'm not completely sure
I do love Eponine, and I have always hated Cossette and Marius. I don’t think Marius is obligated to love Eponine. I just find Cosette and Marius too Privileged and overbearing.
A Person yeah, cosette is fantine’s daughter
Weren't they like step-sisters or soemthing like that?
_WE DON'T TOLERATE COSETTE HATE IN THIS GOOD CHRISTIAN HOUSEHOLD_
Jean is that you
"It's nothing more than we Christians must do"... except this time that's not a lie.
tbh book!cosette is more developed than musical!cosette. she's more decisive and fierce, but both versions are great. cosette is just great.
And from what I hear eponine was less likeable in the books. In an ideal production, cosette would still be decisive and fierce while eponine would still be sympathetic and spunky.
This is true!
I think one of the problems is most people (including me) completely disassociate little Cosette from old Cosette, the show kind of portraits Cosette as a sheltered girl who barely remembers who she used to be so we can not see that quiet revelion of refusing to lose hope.
THIS. It’s almost like they’re two different people...
Karla Alejandra YO THIS IS EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!! (which I often fail to articulate)
To be fair, though, the book pretty much says that Cosette forgot about most of her early childhood as she grew up with Valjean and the nuns, probably (my personal guess) as a result of coping with abuse through repressed memory. The problem is that the musical doesn't give Cosette much of her personality or spark from the novel, and it also doesn't help that we skip ahead some years instead of watching Cosette grow, so it's hard to see how her experiences shape her adulthood in the show.
EXACTLY THIS IS SO TRUE
Yeah everyone in that story is like traumatised for life and Cosette somehow gets away with non of that even though the entire thing is about suffering
Honestly in the book Cosette is the way more sympathetic character.
Yes
Agree, her character development was so beautifully done
Because Cosette was the whole message book, she symbolized what Victor Hugo wanted to tell. Les Miserables can't be the same without her.
In the anime “Les Misérables: Shōjo Cosette” she is very kind-hearted💛. I don’t know about the book or the musical. I only saw the anime and it was wonderful🔥💔
@@aperson5261 lots and lots of skimming.
Me:
*whispers* C o s e t t e I love you very much.
Team Cosette in the book
Team Enjoltaire in the play
Team Éponine in the movie
Yikes I have a dress rehearsal and show today 😬
What show?
How did it go?
Break a leg
Well in the movie it's extra easy to dislike Cosette since she leaves Marius info about their (her's and Valjean's) secret move when she'd only known Marius like 48hrs or less it seems. It made her look irresponsible. In the book there's more time, so she could decide if he deserves her trust.
team eponine novel, anime, serie, movie
this is probably why everyone hates cosette...
person plays cosette:
sings in british accent
me:
bUt iTs iN fRaNcE
HAHAHA WORD
that's typically true for any other part in les mis
person plays eponine:
sings in british accent
The same could be said if they sang with an American accent. According to your logic they all have to sing in French.
Broadway Hollywood that’s basically the phantom of the opera as well
The Only love triangle I am intrested in, in les mis are
Granraire
Enjolras
France
Thanks for comming for my TedTalk!
Periodt
Hear, hear
Same.
👏👏👏
Yas
Cosette is a good looking, sheltered, idealistic book worm. Marius is a good looking, sheltered, idealistic book worm. I have no idea why Marius did not fall for the worldly, cynical, illiterate, girl who was like a little sister to him.
EXACTLY
Not to mention, in the book, that now worldly, cynical, and illiterate girl(and her biological sister, who was cut out from the show) was nearly as bad of a BULLY towards Cosette, as with her parents, when they were kids!
ALSO, Both Cosette and Marius(in the book) lost their closet parents at a young age, mainly due to the machinations of their other family members(adopted or biological).
Long story short: Marius's father was a Bonapartist, something that made Marius's grandfather(the one we see in the 2012 movie), who is a monarchist, drive a wedge between him and his son, forcing the former to distance himself from his son until he died. As a young adult, Marius would come to learn about the man his father really was, and that he truly loved him, confront his grandfather about this and thus renounce his grandfather's influence of him to live in squalor and adopt his father's views himself.
And THEN he met Courfeyrac who convinced him to join the Friends of the ABC with Enjolras, Grantiare and so fourth(he's more closer to Coufeyrac(and even lives with him from time to time) rather than Enjolras, is thus not a founding member of their group, and even nearly comes to conflict with the group's sense Republican revolution(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republics#:~:text=French%20Republics%20refer%20to%20a,First%20and%20Second%20French%20Republic) and his Bonapartist views(though he still ultimately remains on good terms with them).
I love both Cosette and Eponine. They both had really tragic stories and their own struggles which I sympathise with.
Don't wanna be THAT person but there is a kind of misogyny to people's hatred of Cosette. Eponine tends to embody more masculine traits and is feisty and outspoken while people see Cosette who is portrayed as generally passive and caring as traditionally feminine: in short, people praise Eponine for essentially rejecting her femininity while they despise Cosette for embracing it. People have been conditioned to see femininity as weak or submissive when really, Cosette's optimism and compassion and the fact that she doesn't become bitter or self-destructive as some child abuse survivors do, is a testament to how subtly strong she actually is. In conclusion, leave Cosette alone :)
I disagree. It's more because her character is portrayed with no substance to it than misogyny. Her relationship with Marius isn't fleshed out, either. That makes it more difficult to root for her getting the boy over Eponine.
Exactly!!!! Thank you!!!
Dead on. Please continue to be THAT person. :)
Also how is eponoine masculine in anyway yeah she pretends to be a boy but only to get to Marias and that’s it being feisty cuz you’ve had a tough life doesn’t make you masculine no she isn’t gonna speak posh or have pretty dresses and have perfect posture that isn’t ‘reflecting’ her masculinity she can’t afford it lmao she’s practically lives on the streets no she isn’t a delicate little flower but she’s can’t be that with her kinds lifestyle others she wouldn’t been dead long before she got shot just to make it clear I don’t hate Cosset she’s one of my favourite characters I’m les mis I’ve even played her before I just don’t think your right about the feminine and masculinity not everything has to do with ‘a strong female character’ vs ‘the delicate princess’ I think that people hate Cosset because they relate to Eponine if I were in Eponines shoes and a guy I was head over heels madly in love with didn’t love me back and chose someone else it would sting a little and I would have a disliked to the person who he loves instead wether he was aware that I loved he or he wasn’t it would still hurt
Comparatively Eponine is more masculine than Cosette. That's just the truth. And maybe you prefer Eponine for other reasons but you don't speak for everyone and neither do I. All I know is that in my experience, people always comment on the traditionally feminine aspects of Cosette when describing how they hate her.
everyone knows the top tier ship of les mis is Eposette
Katelen yesssw
y e s
Now this I can get behind!
underrated comment
Y e s
Reasons why I love Cosette:
*amanda* *seyfried*
Agreed. I just love everything about her
Kind of unrelated but Fantine is my favorite 😁
Fantine is the bomb lol
Me too!😊
Same!
Sameeee
Even during In My Life, we have Cosette - IN THE LYRICS - going through a whole emotional threshold, doubting and laughing at herself, singing about how all she does is stay inside and study, being clever enough to have known for YEARS that Valjean is hiding something major, and even a bit combative toward him when he once again refuses to be honest with her. This man who was the light in her life at the end of the darkest tunnel still can't quite be there for her and that one conversation that they will never have is just eating away at her trust. But she is grateful enough for him despite how he isolates her that she backs down when he becomes stern and reminds her of his faith in God's plan.
When she sees Marius stammering and tripping over his cheesy lines, she picks up the melody and finishes his introduction for him, yet she's almost always played as this very static, passive person who has no damage. FFS, throw some dirt in her voice, inflect a bit, make her SOUND witty, not just READ witty! She is introduced to Eponine, make sure she RECOGNIZES her and let THEM have a connection. In the book, Ponine recognizes her and feels resentful and guilty about how, despite her upbringing, Cosette escaped and became something. Not only can THAT be worked into the acting better (many people play Eponine as very passive as well, except where the script doesn't allow it) but Cosette can see her back, reach out and want to take her in, to save her as well. Cosette is SMART and GENEROUS, she would know that a child will not be the same at 15 as they were at 7, or at least she would know well enough to allow her the benefit of the doubt. The few seconds where Marius mentions her name could be so full of subtext about how these two see the world and their own lives.
Hell, maybe her attention is divided between Marius and Eponine when they become a trio at the end of the song. She's already not so invested in her first-sight crush that she forgets her life, surely she would be taking in both that such a charming man is friends with Ponine and that she will do selfless favors for him, she should be evaluating them both in context of each other.
The wedding, ohhhh the wedding neglects Cosette so much. She is not told that her adoptive sister died for her sake. She doesn't know where her father is. She is DRAGGED AWAY from the reception with hardly a word and no explanation, and then shows up to Valjean's death bed simply like "THEY said you'd gone away!" Who? When? Marius? If not him just now, why were you not like this earlier?
Please, just give Cosette like 5 more lines and let her BREATHE
That's what I was thinking when it comes to how people view female characters in classic literature. You shouldn't judge a character on a surface level, you gotta analyze the character.
When I played cosette (just a couple month ago) for my youth theater, the director would always stop, and say "you know what? I hate Marius."😂
DAMN! I mean, he's kinda stupid, but that's going a little too far IMO.
Oh my gosh, have you read the book? The book really cemented Cosette's status as one of my favorite characters of all time, and gives so much more depth to her character in the musical --- the musical did her a bit of a disservice tbh. Even in the musical, she has so much depth and is such a breath of fresh air in the onslaught of human depravity and death that is the musical. She's such a wonderful character, thank you so much for making a Cosette Appreciation Video!!
I'd go as far as to say that there really isn't a love triangle. In my opinion, the person at the head of the triangle needs to make a choice. Marius never knew about Eponine's feelings (which I don't think were genuine but that's a rant for another time) so he never had to make a choice.
I think Eponine's feelings are genuine, but I don't think it's love as much as desperation for a connection. She does care for him, but ultimately she's just lonely and wants someone to love her (which, you know, relatable). She doesn't really know what a real loving relationship looks like or what she would do for Marius.
MC Wyman yes! Also, she sort of attached herself to Marius because he was literally the only person to be kind to her.
She definitely loved Marius because she choose his happiness over her own. She showed him where Cosette lived, she gave him the letter(granted she did hold on to it for awhile), and then she took a bullet for him. If none of that is love, then I don't know what is.
Oh, based on “A Little Fall of Rain,” HE KNOWS. He just, I don’t know, ignores it until she’s dying. When it’s clear she’s not going to make it, THEN he’s all “oh, if only saying ‘I love you’ would save you, I’d totally do it! But love won’t heal your wounds, so 🤷🏻♂️.”
In short, I don’t hate Cosette. Marius, though? Total jerk.
I don’t like cosette because she sounds like a friggin tea kettle if not played by the right actress
Noelia Murillo the truth
Don’t insult Mrs. Potts like this again
@@molly-cw9tj lmao
I choked on my milk. I-
My name is Cosette and I’m low key offended
Wait. People hate Cosette? I didn’t know that was a thing.
@Diane Berg People hate Amy Schumer because she blatantly steals jokes and despite having proof in front of her she still denies it (just watch Amy Schumer steals jokes videos and you'll know she only changes a word or two), is insensitive (I don't care if it's a roast battle, you don't go and say someone should've died in a car crash instead of their friend after it was only a couple of months, she was a complete and utter cruel bitch), and anyone who tries to joke with her she gets offended with (She jokes about her weight, people joke with her, they're fat-shaming her; she jokes about promiscuity, someone jokes with her, they're slut-shaming her, etc.). For a comedian, she can't make/tell/take a joke.
That being said, the people who do comment on how she's not good looking enough or too fat or slutty or too anything are definitely assholes that are definitely at fault. And I think she's cool for advocating for autism and against rape culture and slut-shaming.
I used to be an Amy Schumer fan when I just started watching comedy. I was 11 and was in a bad spot and needed to laugh, and Amy (my 1st comedian) did that. When I expanded upon Amy Schumer and saw other comedians, I started hearing her jokes playing around and I was adamant they were stealing from her, so I went, I checked dates and realised she stole from then. I was disappointed, to say the least.
@@marinagemoftheseas i admire how you put so much in that paragraph.
@@marinagemoftheseas i feel u
@Diane Berg wait... People hate Anne Hathaway??
Neither did I
i haven’t watched this yet but I LOVE COSETTE :( everybody leave her alone haha
Right?? I get so sad when everyone hates on her lol 🌻
I mean us altos just have a blood hatred of Cosette since she is living proof of the sopranos rule all thing
But I mean I do lowkey like her so...🤷♀️
trin trin yea altos hate Cosette
trin trin I’m a soprano and I hate her too.
I'm an alto and I personally like her
Honestly, I actually really love Cosette. I read the book though, so maybe I liked her more because she was more interesting in the novel than in the musical.
Really?
I don’t hate Cosette, but I’m Team Epionine just because of Ms Lea Salonga!
YES. SAME.
I love both Cosette and Eponine, but I am team Enjoltaire for life.
NOW THAT IS VALID Lea Salonga can do no wrong
Cossette is a tragic sweatheart.
The modern woman hates her because she understands suffering.
My heart wants to play Eponine but my range says Enjolras. (Tbh, that’s not that bad.) Kath can play Cosette with me!
Well since I was named after her, I am legally obligated to be team Cosette
Seconded.
Thirded?
Lol this comment section
I played Cosette in my high school. VERY FUN at times but there were a lot of struggles.
Ignoring the typical drama that comes with putting up a cast list (I was a sophomore when I was casted as her) the issues with this character that I had were very internal.
I felt that the only way my interpretation could be successful to an audience is if the audience could understand why Marius would choose Cosette over Eponine.
I had a hard time doing this obviously. Cosette had no clear struggles other then yearning like a disney princess, and Eponine was progressive and tragic and very likeable. The girl who played Eponine in my cast was GREAT. In my character profile, I started to work around this.
There were some rules my director had established before I wrote my character backstory.
1. Cosette stayed with the Thenardiars (sorry if that's spelled incorrectly) for little time and cannot remember it due to the trauma
2.Cosette has no idea who Eponine or Javert is
3. Cosette must have NO IDEA what is going on.
I wrote a character and mapped out for HOURS a story of a young woman who was painfully aware of her position and her world, and was desperate to see the outside. Marius was truly the love of her life, and her unending, boundless kindness and enthusiasm for education and knowledge of the world around her made her a wholesome human being.
But then the director gave me directions to a child-like, innocent and frankly airhead 15 year old girl who was driven to romance with Marius by raging hormones.
The rest of my play experience of trying to feel this character to bring her to life was a struggle. I had no idea what I was doing on stage 100% of the time because now the director and I had opposite perceptions of who Cosette really was.
I tried to give her pain that was unique yet just as strong as the others, and my director wanted a demanding 15 year old.
I struggled to play a character I couldnt respect. Maybe that makes me a bad actress as a whole, but since I couldn't respect Cosette as my director made her, I couldn't connect with her.
I couldn't tell if what I was doing was shmacting or overdoing it or too subtle. That role was taxing.
I did the best I could in the end and people liked it. I just have the feeling many audience members would still choose Eponine over Cosette in a heartbeat.
Moral of the story is you can't please everyone in theatre, and sometimes roles will never fit just right. Cosette is a fascinating character to take on and Les Mis is dear to my heart, but not everyone loves her, and I struggled accepting the fact I could maybe change that.
Wow! I'm sorry that happened to you. Perhaps it was miscommunication. It happens. But I don't think you should let yourself down because of that. You did your best with the tools you had. Keep working on and never give up!
That's a shame that the director didn't let you explore Cosette as you imagined her because she sounds fascinating and someone I'd want to watch. I've always related to Eponine because of the unrequited love thing, so she's my favorite. But the Cosette you describe would be a worthwhile story to tell.
I tried I feel the same way. I’m literally in the EXACT SAME situation as you. I’m playing Cosette and I’m having a hard time with the fact that not many people like Cosette. I’m trying to connect with Cosette the best I can. We’ll see how that goes...wish me luck🤦♀️
I really like Cosette. She had to deal with a lot in her time, and Im happy for her. Eponine deserves the world, but you dont need to put one girl down to hype the other- Marius isn’t interested and she could find someone else to love her and more importantly love herself. Eponine puts her worth in him bc shes desperate for a better life and positive affection.
I'm so with you on this! I love Eponine (and used to melodramatically sing "On My Own" in the shower as a teen) but Cosette is one of my favorite characters of all time. I love that there's a bit after the Robbery in the original London production where Cosette and Eponine are essentially mirrored in the gate and it really helps drive home that they are foils for each other. Cosette is the pampered well-loved daughter that Eponine thought she would grow up to be and Eponine is the dirty street kid that Cosette was as a child. It's through luck (and Valjean's generosity) that they have switched places. And I LOVE that "She was more a lark than a dove" line. I actually kind of want to get it as a tattoo!
The problem is, the musical never SHOWS Cosette doing anything. Cosette is boring, and worst of all completely useless. That's the ultimate sin for a character, she's lacks both agency (she's carried away by Jean Valjean and later Marius, never making decisions for herself) and purpose (her being Fantine's motivation and Valjean's morality pet are all the relevance she carries over the plot), even worst both Fantine and Eponine are much better characters and woman... who die horribly without a happy ending.
She's ultimately the definition of a sexy lamp, if she were replaced in the story for a valuable yet inanimate object the whole musical still works the exact same, which doesn't speak highly of her character. In the end the story rewards Cosette's pasiveness with literally the best ending among everyone (married into a rich household with a handsome and cultured man who loves her). I know asking for a Les Mis rewrite is sacrilege but if it ever happens they need to make sure Cosette contributes something to the plot other than be a pretty thing male characters work towards.
Gerard Guzmán Sandoval Which is why the book is over a 1000 pages long. If you forget the rambles of details, the story is quite nice.
I have strongly mixed feelings about the 1998 movie but I would like to give it a shoutout for including a scene where Cosette is a freaking badass who gets to fight Javert
Haven't read the book but I feel exactly this way about cossette when watching the musical/movies. She really did nothing and yet gets the best ending...I don't even really like Marius either
“I see you barricade boy shippers.”
She caught me. Okay but I really love Enjoltaire.
I dont mind Cosette but I love Eponine more. Storytime: I played Eponine and the guy I liked played Marius. I was an emotional wreck inside. We became friends (were still friends). I lowkey have a crush on him now but its okay lmao.
Isabel wow okay i never related more to a comment that much
This is so meta and I love it.
Protect the hated musical characters,
Raoul + Cosette
why do people hate raoul if you don't take love never dies into consideration but who does
@@ashleyriche760 Legit everyone hates him. Have you ever even met anyone from the Phandom?
@@lasvina3610 i am part of the phandom and he was one of my fav characters. i do not really meet other people since i have been homeschooled most of my life and i only just started actually interacting with people online. but could you maybe explain to me why everyone hates him. we can agree to disagree but i am interested in hearing the reason why he is so hated. sorry for the long comment.
I love Raoul soooo much!
Rauol is the best!!!!! I love him ❤
Having played Grantaire, I can say for a fact that Enjol-taire is real, and it is fabulous
Also I wouldn’t call Éponine a tragic hero or a martyr. She doesn’t die because of the rebel cause, she dies because Marius made her take a letter to Cosette. And according to the literary definition of a ‘tragic hero,’ I’d say Javert is the tragic hero of the story; his flaw being his relentless ambition to pursue Valjean
I’m sorry, I wrote a whole essay about how Javert is a tragic hero for English class once
i’m playing cosette right now and honestly i had my heart set on eponine because i wanted to kind of break out of my type cast (ingenue, v high singer lol) and i felt like she had more to work with
now, i’m trying to look for things about cosette and i LOVED this. this has already helped me IMMENSELY and i’m so thankful
thank you so much for bringing more to cosette to life. so so very appreciated
Honestly having seen your enthusiasm for Cosette, I have been liking her character a bit more (and BBCs latest take on Les Mis helped too haha!!)
HARDCORE EPONINE FAN THO, but don’t hate or dislike Cosette in the slightest 😉💖❤️
i liked the bbc’s cosette more the musical’s version of cosette
Too bad BBC Cosette was stuck with an awful Valjean and Marius that didn't deserve her.
Total Enjoltaire shipper! Btw, I ship Cosette and Marius. Eponine needs someone a lot better than her. Marius isn’t that special.
Victoria S. do you permit it????
hannah ew yes, lol.
Yes and I also feel like éponine was "in love" with marius because he was the only person who was genuinely kind to her so she just got emotionally very attached to him
THANK YOU, OMG. MARIUS REALLY ISN’T WORTH IT IF SHE HAS TO DIE JUST TO SEE HIM.
Eponine and azelma is should be paired with enjolras and grantaire
You mentioned the book and I immediately thought "Oh, I should reread that sometime soon" before remembering that I am literally started rereading it like 2 days ago.
"the human equivalent of unbuttered toast"
omg that was one of the harshest roasts I've ever heard lmao
My dad after seeing Les Mis for the third time: “I really just DON’T care care about Fatine”
Me: “Fatine???”
Dad: “wait no the one that dies on the barricade!”
Me: “Eponine??”
Dad: “yeah her she’s boring”
😂
I was about to slap him with chicken cutlets when I read Fantine 😭😭😭
Where are my peeps at who relate so much to eponine except for being dead 🙋♀️
clarissacortez Meeeeeeeeeee
OH SIS
Mee
Right here 🙋♀️
I’m dead inside, does that count?
eponine is an absolute dream role for me and i love her to death she’s one of my favs but can people stop pitting strong interesting women against each other!!! cosette is so strong and kind and i’ll protect her with my LIFE
Team Eposette, aka miserable lesbians that aren't really miserable.
Katherine Kempton holy heck yes
Let’s go lesbians!!
Y E S AMEN!!!!
YES YESSSSS
Correct answer
If you want to hurt more, there’s another line in the book where it says that JVJ always went to the well to get water so that Cosette doesn’t have to.
I could go on and on about the book I love it.
The book is wonderful! The scene where Valjean returns home after the wedding always makes me tear up, no matter how many times I read it 😣
I don’t have the will to read the book 😭
Team Éponine!! I’ve never really wanted her to get with Marius though, I just prefer her character by far❤️
Agree, I don't really get the people that make it all about Marius, he doesn't love her and Eponine has so many other problems. I wish she had better parents and if she still wanted it a man to properly love her.
Eponine and Marius would be a terrible couple. They don't match in that way
yay les mis video!! team eponine but cosette is cool
“Cosette is like un-buttered toast.” 😂😂😂 this is why I love Kat
In terms of the musical, I’m team Cosette. In terms of the fanfic, I’m team EnjolTaire/ExR.
...
Hey, when your high school best friend regularly wrote fanfic, what else were you meant to do but ship the barricade boys?
I think part of the hate is how Cosette is always portrayed as submissive. Even the part of ‘In My Life’ where she’s trying to get the truth of her past out of Valjean, she’s always played as being merely curious rather than having a burning desire to know more about herself. Most actresses I’ve seen put more effort in the sweet, romantic side of her than the part of her that feels a disconnect from her past. We don’t get that with Eponine because she’s always played with a witty, sarcastic edge. It’s a shame because Cosette has a lot of emotional depth.
"We're a really nice cult. is this what mid-sommar is about?"
....Yes. Yes it is.
Im still Team Eponine but COSETTE IS ADORABLE AND OPTIMISTIC IM KSNDJF
I just played Cosette, and this came up on my suggested and I’ve never been happier 😂 I swear the girls who played Fantine and Eponine both said “why does Cosette get to live anyways” and I swear no one liked her but I fell in love with her for the exact reasons you said so thank you
Eponine I can understand, but if the lady who plays Fantine says "why does Cosette get to live"... I kind of feel like she missed a big part of Fantine's character lol
I’m mostly team Eponine because:
1. I relate to her
2. I can sing her part better than Cosette’s part
BUT LIKE COSETTE IS ADORABLE AND I WANT TO GIVE HER A HUG
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Why is Les Miserables so confusing 😫
Cosette is so underrated! She is such an amazing character! People think she is so bland and boring, but there is just as much depth to her as Eponine!
TEAM ENJOLTAITE ❤️ but for real, it’s so hard to chose a “side” in this story, not just between Éponine and Cosette, but between basically any two characters that form a dichotomy-like situation (Valjean and Javert, Grantaire and Enjolras, Etc.) because the point that is illustrated so beautifully in The Brick is that they are ALL Les Miserables. They’re all beautifully filled out, but fractured, pieces of the human condition. ❤️
*pushes people out of the way* WHO IS HATING MY DAUGHTER?????? I LOVE HER WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL. SHE IS *LITERALLY* THE EMBODIMENT OF HOPE AND LOVE.
Found Valjean xP
.... I feel seen ( was on a Barricade Boys shipping forum in 2004).
omg I love that for you
It’s kinda funny- I’m actually in Les Mis right now! I feel for my girl Eponine. She really is one of the miserables.
I'm team
*All my children deserved better darn it*
You should do a video about this interesting theater anecdote: The Lead Problem. A good way to put this is by using Les Mis, Much Ado About Nothing, or Bye Bye Birdie:
Kim, Cosette, & Hero Can all be classified as female leads
Rosie, Eponine, & Beatrice are like the supporting lead.
The “Supporting Leads” have more stage time, are more beloved by audiences, & usually dream roles of many while, the technical lead leads aren’t exactly as focused on, Kim is the closest one to get the really actual lead feel treatment but Rosie has so many more solos than her, she feels a bit shunned.
I was wondering if you knew of any other musicals or plays with this paradox, these were just the first ones to come to mind.
PLEASE release merch that says " I really like musicals, so much so I joined a Musical Theatre cult." Also, please react to some of Starkids musicals 😁
Exactly Sister! THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone has the guts to point out why Cosset doesn’t deserve the hate she gets.
I was supposed to sing Castle on a Cloud for an audition for Annie,but I was too young to audition, and my voice is muuuuuccccchhhhhh lower
*marius shouldnt be obligated to marry a woman because hes known her for a while and she loves him, periodt dont @ me*
A true fact: only hates cosette who never read the book
I couldn’t get past the first page 😂
I don’t really like her in either one
facts i didn't read the book but I still love cosette
@@ocalimirosubso and you are not wrong lmao
I’m team cosette & epinoine needs a hug
Kat: I love all my children equally.
Also Kat: Les mis is kind of my favorite.
Me too 😂
And I'm team Enjolrataire
As a child I really wanted to play Cosette. Now I wanna play Enjolras (which is almost impossible... because I'm a girl... but it's my dream so...)
I think we are forgetting that at the beginning Cosette is get abused by the pub owners and is wearing rags but eponine is wearing riches while Cosette is reviving abuse. So by the end the characters switched.
Girl, I love you! I always loved Cosette and thought about her as my underdog, and see that other people see her as the full person as I do is incredible!
I couldn't stop talking about theatre thursday all week. This wired little kid who has a crush on me tried to get me to join his "cult". I told him no, and said that I was already in Katherine Steele's thespian cult. He got mad, and it was amazing.
People always forget how difficult Cosette's life is, too.
I've always loved Cosette! Everyone always hates me when I admit it though! Including my own mother. I've never been ashamed of loving her though.
Team Enjoltaire fjdjfkcck (The barricade boy shippers are here👀)
Yass
There is a castle on a cloud~
I like to go there in my sleep...
Aren't any floors for me to sweep
Not in my castle on a cloud~
There is a room that's full of toys~
There are a hundred boys and girls...
Nobody shouts or talks too loud
Not in my castle on a cloud~
There is Lady all in White~
Holds me and sings a lullaby~
She's nice to see, and she's soft touch.
She says, "Cosette, I love you very much."
I know a place where no one's lost~
I know a place where no one cries~
Crying at all is not allowed...
Not in my castle on a cloud...
Not in my castle on a cloud.
Eeeh I love Castle on a cloud UwU
Honestly y'all, I love cosette. She is such a sweetie, but I hate Marius!
I don't dislike musical Marius even in the book I don't hate him perse but he's WAY more problematic, starting with the part that he is a stalker.
Ty for bringing this to light! Never thought of Cosette as much more than a convenient character, but they could have given her so much more.
The last time I was this early, Fantine was still alive.
Also Team #Eponine but actually #Enjlorarius
I shouldn't have laughed at this comment, but I did. RIP Fantine.
Aaaaah! I love this conversation!! I do have an Eponine bias but I loved that you mentioned that Cosette had trauma in her childhood and she has such a good heart. I 100% see you as an amazing Cosette