In fairness, a patch saying "Loud Pipes provide an aditional saftey factor in certain situations, particularly residential and built up areas where sound can bounce around, that can alert drivers and pedestrians that a motorcycle is nearby" would be more accurate, but take up a lot of real estate on a leather vest
@pirateadam3686 So, I had to put your patch idea to the test...what do you think? I think I nailed it... www.mcrider.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/LoudPipes-Patch.jpg
50 years of riding and have never dropped a bike, not even once? The odds of that may not exactly be 0%, but they are so close to 0 that I'm just going to call it 0.
@@beepbop6697 I’ve gone down on dirt bikes. I’ve never dropped or been down on a road bike. I know no one believes me, but it’s true. My bike did fall one time when the side stand sunk into the ground. But I wasn’t on it at the time.
As a retired MSF Coach I've found when someone says "I had to lay the bike down" that's just their way of saying they screwed up so they are saving face with their friends. Just glad they were in the class learning better techniques to avoid/handle these situations in first place. THANKS for the this video!
I add a loud horn and I enjoy my quiet ride and use the loud horn to get people’s attention. Plus not speeding, never needing to do stunts and keeping a safe riding distance at all times, is everyone’s best option to keeping safe.
You can definitely see in crash videos that the bike and rider both speed up when they are sliding on the road. Sliding greatly increases your stopping distance.
I'm glad you mentioned "safety in numbers." In all seriousness... I've seen more accidents in numbers. Riders are distracted trying to cross talk, and hot dog it to one another... not paying attention to what's in front and not keeping their line. I'm very selective with whom I ride, and I keep my number low, below or at five.
If a driver approaching a pack of riders strays across the line, there's a very good chance that the cyclist closest to the center of the road way gets clocked, and others nearby go down because of it. Riding in packs isn't very safe regardless of who's at fault that metal enclosed driver is coming out the winner in the meat hitting the pavement game.
Myth number 8: Women love guys who ride motorcycles - nah they couldn't care less. They only figure if you have that kind of money to spend on a hobby you'll have lots to spend on them.
I'm a 34-year MSF & State rider coach and have been harping on all of these points for years. Nicely worded. Two of my comments relayed in every class "If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride the bike would do" and "Make every ride count...you can go out & get 10 years of riding experience or 1 year of riding experience 10 times".
Loud pipes: 1) Deaden your own hearing. 2) Create hostility in the other motorists on the road. 3) Trigger panic reactions in nervous drivers / make babies/dogs freak out. All of that reduces your safety.
2:39 as a rider of 17 years I’ve never once laid a bike down to avoid anything lol. Every person who “used to ride” has said this for a reason. But it’s easier to maneuver on two wheels. “The more you know”
Training is magical. I took the MSF Advanced Rider Course and the Ride Like a Pro course after already having 25+ years of experience. Game changer! As the Motorman said, he thought he had 20 years of experience when what he actually had was 1 year of experience repeated 20 times.
I always feel that you are well prepared for your show. This means you are saying what you meant to say, not just rabbit holing into unknown subjects and misinforming. Love the channel.
Emergency braking skills (and also swerving to miss an obstacle) should be practiced in a parking lot first, but also, then at 55+mph. The speed DOES make a big difference. Particularly in swerving, you have to shift your weight much more intentfully to swerve at 55 than at 35 if you think you are going to miss something.
I'm not sure loud pipes don't save lives. I've been in my car at a stop just to see a crotch rocket zip by. Which made me think to myself, if I had not already come to a stop. I would have hit the rider. My point here is I didn't hear it. I had come to a stop, looked right, looked left when I returned to look right, the bike was in front of me. Maybe I'm just tuned to hear bikes, but I've always heard a harley coming and going. I'm not disputing you, just my thoughts on pipes. I find your videos to be very informative and accurate.
Most of the exhaust noise is transmitted out the rear of the bike. A car on a highway will not hear the "loud pipes" until the rider is next to or in front of the car. However, they are very noticeable in a quiet neighborhood and do well at pissing everyone off that enjoys silence.
Sudden noises get attention. A crotch rocket approaching from a distance is a increasingly louder noise. Not the same. By the time your brain figures it out it's already gone.
Loud pipes definitely work when la get splitting at slow speeds. I see it all the time, it's not fool proof but combined flashing lights pretty effective.
Loud Pipes...I yield to those who chose, but I prefer my 135decible air horns. Groups, I agree, to many don't know how to ride. Lots of mileage experience...worked with a guy who had tens of thousands of riding time, and allegedly an MSF instructor, who failed the police motor officer course, and broke an bone doing so. Not enough slow speed experience. Practice always
A few observations from a few decades of riding.. Riding with a vintage sport bike or gold wing club is totally different than a weekend pick up group of knuckleheads. Almost every guy I knew over the years that decided to buy a street bike after years of dirt biking, got hurt. I was involved in several (potential life ending) accidents. In two, I was hit by drivers that didnt see me. Both had been drinking, (and so had I) I realized and accepted that i was culpable, (even though in both instances, the car driver was found at fault), and that I could have taken steps to avoid them. Think ahead, scan constantly, ride with your "spot" always further up the road, not directly in front of, or around you. Be smart. Check your ego. Ride defensively. Make parking lot practice a routine. Take accountability for yourself, and dont blame others. Accept that they dont see you, ride like no one sees you..
I have quiet motorcycles and loud motorcycles.I was riding one of my loud motorcycles a1700 Roadstar on a two lane highway at the posted speed of 70mph.I was in a no passing zone.The car behind me passed on the shoulder.I just assume he didn’t like listening to my sweet sounding big V-Twin.🤷♂️
I've been riding since I was 16, now in my sixties. Had a deer run in front of me going to work early in the morning several yearsago. Didn't even have ime to touch the break. Went down, had leathers on, but still had burns on my arms and legs from sliding on the pavement, very painful. I found your videos several months ago and found out that I didn't have the skills I really need to ride safely. I thank you for sharing your experience with all of us.
As usual, great video. Thank you so much, I am an avid follower. Been riding about 30 years and still learning. I wanted, however, to dispute the statement that loud pipes don't save lives. This is not my experience at all. I have ridden a Harley for the last 8 years, which replaced a Honda CBR600RR which I crashed when someone pulled out in front of me from a side road. The number of times I've been saved simply by the noise of my HD is well over 20. Those noisy pipes have literally saved my life over 20 times in 8 years. I SEE distracted and daydreaming drivers get violently pulled back to reality (often jumping in their seats as I approach in an adjacent lane) by the noise of my bike, and then they look around them to see where the noise is coming from. That NEVER happened on my (much quieter) CBR. Were it not for the noise, they would not have been remotely aware that I was near them on the road and therefore would have manoeuvred as if I wasn't there. Traffic light-controlled intersections are a particular bug bear of mine (lots of bad experiences), but the noise of my HD announces my presence/arrival and I can see that drivers are either looking for me or have already made visual contact with me - again, a stark difference to my experience riding quieter sports bikes. I won't ever go back to riding a "quiet" motorcycle because of my experience with the loud HD.
When you are on the highway going 70 your loud pipes will never keep anyone from pulling out in front of you because your pipes face the opposite direction of the way you are going and almost all of the sound is projecting backwards. People in front of you who are in their cars with the windows rolled up are not going to hear anything until it's too late. Sometimes though if you are on a four or six lane highway and a person is driving next to you that person might hear you before they thoughtlessly change lanes without looking. Over all loud pipes probably don't do much good but occasionally they might. I don't have loud pipes anymore though because I just got tired of them.
Well done. Ive been riding on and off road for over 50 yrs now. While i could make a slight argument for some of these, this is well thought and and obviously comes from year of practical experience. Thanks!
I've heard several of these mentioned many times. Have had many disagree about the loud pipes saves lives post I made a while back. The post was even sharing information showing why loud pipes don't save lives and many still disagreed. Great video!
Don't trust anyone else to keep you safe while riding! You mentioned demo days at HD, I rode in a group like that and even had a motorcycle police officer providing assistance to stop traffic at a traffic light. I got hit boroadside by a car that didn't yield. No tickets were issued, but an officer that wasn't at the scene wrote the report and made it seem like I was at fault. Luckily I wasn't severely injured but no lawyers for bikers would take my case to pay for my chiropractic visits, they told me to try and work it out w the insurance company. What a mess, sued the insurance co. to get that paid. So, I guess my real point is, flagged riders front and back, police assitance at the intersection, and years of riding didn't stop that car from proceeding thru the traffic signal in the only open lane while everyone else was stopped! Love to ride, but anyone who says it isn't dangerous, would be wrong! Keep the rubber on the road and the shiney side up!!!!
Knowing what to do is most important. I bought a 680 lb 1,352 cc Kawasaki after 47 years from my first motorcycle, a 500 cc Yamaha. On the ride home from the purchase, I was going 80+ mph, and a beat-up landscape truck pulling a trailer does an illegal u-turn in front of me as if I was invisible. Swerving was not an option, and I had to do a panic stop, basically squeezing the front brake to 100% to a front tire wheelie stopping within 6 feet. I had not "practiced" this but knew what to do, having watched many a video. I have practiced hard braking since but never as radical as that miracle "stoppee." My understanding is that you can squeeze to 95+% if you start at 2% first, to 5%, to 10%, to 50%, and so on treating the bike as a unicycle if you are balanced straight up and down. Whether or not this is the right way to think about it, it worked for me.
FYI, I've been riding long enough that when I started full face helmets on the street weren't even a thing yet. Back then the same know it alls would tell you that wearing any helmet would cause neck injuries. Technology changes but stupidity remains the same...
Thanks as always, I agree with all you've said with one small caveat. While I have never been an advocate of loud pipes I did put some slightly fruity, mellifluous sounding pipes on my old TDM900 some years back and noticed within a few months that no one was trying to merge over into my lane in traffic any more! The standard pipes were very quiet and I had often experienced drivers start to change lane right next to me, when I had been riding alongside of them for some time, yet they hadn't noticed me! I just doesn't happen any more. Now of course I agree we have to ride defensively and be responsible for our own road position etc, but sometimes traffic determines that you are next to a driver in the next lane and it seems for all the reasons you've mentioned they are still oblivious. So my thinking is 'Fruity pipes help'...
TRX850 and the same scenario. I commuted daily in heavy but fast flowing traffic and I would have an incident per day when quiet but when I took the baffles out no one would come near me.
In my opinion using loud pipes as a safety measure is a poor strategy. The rider is counting on everyone else to have vehicles with a sane amount of noise so they can be heard above the rest of the street noise. Why should motorcycles be allowed to massively contribute to noise pollution and no one else. If other vehicles get louder it leads to a never ending escalation of obnoxious noise. It is a shame that law enforcement ignores people using these illegal mods to their bike. It just rightly makes people hate motorcycles when they are subjected to ear splitting noise.
Loud pipes DO save lives. I'm living proof of it. I have 500k miles of downtown Los Angeles traffic commuting and at time revving the engine so folks who are on their cell phones can hear me has saved my life. Why not use the horn, some people ask, I use that too at times but my hand is already on the throttle vs the split second it would take me to reach over to the horn switch.
Riding a motorcycle, while wearing no helmet, and dressed only in a T-shirt, Bermuda shorts, and running shoes - on the streets - is the clearest indicator that the rider is an A**hole!
Interesting blog and although i don`t agree with all your points, I have just subscribed. Four things to add for safer riding are :- Learn to be able to read the nature of the road you`re on; Especially when you don`t know it. Trust your instincts - they can avoid you unnecesary situations. If you never ride to your limits - you`ll never know where your limits are. Know your limits. Never trust another road user that you don`t know. Cheers.
A well presented film. I have learned a lot from riding 'off road' from trials to wheelie school via race school [and tracing] and I have found something from each that I can use on the road. A lot is about attitude. If you treat yourself as a pupil who knows nothing any time you are getting training you will learn a lot more. This is from someone who has their second day of first aid refresher course tomorrow and used to teach the subject until 8 years ago - the instructor is more up to date than I am so she will know more than me.
"Practice makes perfect", they say. No, it doesn't, really. But practicing your bad habits for 40 years will make you very good at exhibiting bad habits.
Good job! Thanks. We can come up with justifications for just about anything we do. I’d feel better about the loud pipes folks if they’d just admit they like a noisy bikes rather than trying to justify it.
Good video you were exactly right on some people will argue that loud pipes safer but they are not, I appreciate a good sounding motorcycle but excessive noise can hide important sounds you should be hearing, im surprised they don’t ticket loud bikes
Loud pipes save animals lives.I ride a six cylinder Valkyrie with straight pipes and I have had thousands of deer, elk and even Buffalo move out of my way. Many dogs and kittens have been saved. I live in the rural southern Appalachian Mts. I KNOW that my loud pipes have saved me in many a blind curve. The quiet cars hit deer continuously. Our roads are littered with animal carcasses. Each of those carcasses could represent a dead motorcyclist.
must be awesome to live where u do and be an alert rider(except for animal carcasses of course )i live in central nj and it takes 10 minutes to cross the street on foot or tires
I have biked to the 4 corners of North America and to 41 of the 50 states. The Southern Appalachians have the sweetest riding I have found. The roads just “flow”.
I think the biggest problem is that people aren't trained to look for the smaller silhouette of a bike & rider. Sound is relative to what's around you atm. Sight usually is the more common and immediate response.
Excellent video. The Harley group I use to ride with divided us into two groups. Experienced, and lessor. The experienced groups went on ahead in a tight group, the lessor group keep it slow and riders where well spaced apart. Even riding in an experienced group, it always gave me a a bad feeling that someone may not be paying attention, and as such kept me uneasy. Today I ride a BMW, and compared to the Harley, I see no difference, in the way drivers pay no attention to us. Via pulling out, merging over, and a thousand other ways that violate our safety.
Regarding myth 6, and dirt bikes. Back when I was about 20something (now 64). I was riding my Honda SL250 street legal trail bike on the regular to and from work and or polytech. One day on the way home I decided to to get a road tyre fitted instead of wearing out a knobbly on the motorway / streets. Nearing home I was on a twisting hill and dedicied to "see what this new tyre could do" especially since it was raining at the time. Everything went well until the top where I was cresting a negative camber curve. I ended up Fully crossed up, back end sliding out speedway style, leaning deep into the curve while standing up and counter balancing the bike and I made it safely or at least successfully around the bend. I had not really been a well practised off road rider by any means, But one of my workmates was. In a conversation a few weeks earlier he had said the way to keep it on the track when it slides out is to just what I described above. Somehow in the moment I needed that wisdom it came to me. Without that advice I don't think I would have made that turn, and I never tried to repeat it.
I didn’t see my favorite “myth that won’t die” which is the counter-steering “magic speed” myth. Most people now seem to accept the fact that counter-steering is how motorcycles are steered, but most, including most instructors, still teach that counter-steering only works above some magic speed. The speed given varies by instructors, but 10-15 MPH seems typical. Counter-steering works with ANY non-zero speed.
Agree with your analysis, but it is hard to balance-steer at slow enough speeds to demonstrate. No-hands on a bicycle is still do-able, but I don't try it while parking my motorcycle.
@@1959Dragon Absolutely. The counter-steering gets lost in the “noise” of the rapid motions to retain balance, but at least one university instrumented a bicycle and you can clearly see that the counter-steering motion leads an intentional change in lean angle of the bike. I agree that is is hard to demonstrate at low speeds, but it can be done at 5 MPH, it just takes a huge input and you risk crashing before you can recover. 😁
And of course nobody tells kids anything about "counter steering" , yet they manage to get around corners quite happily. Too easy to micro analyse something that occurs naturally then fill a RUclips Channel for half an hour with something that I'd never heard of in forty years of biking.
@@fabianmckenna8197 Except that you are wrong. Failing to negotiate a corner is one of the most prevalent motorcycle accident scenarios and is directly related to not understanding counter-steering. Being still ignorant after 40 years isn’t something to be proud of.
I was recently on the highway in my F150 and could hear a Harley. I looked all around, checked my mirrors, could't see any motorcycle around. Seconds later the Harley passed me, he had been perfectly in my blind spot no matter how much i looked for him i couldn't see him. But i heard him . If I hadnt heard him and decided to do a lane change he would have been toast.
Loud pipes are additive, not prevention. Hand on heart ❤️ ✋️. I have been told, "I was about to change lanes, but I heard a bike. I tuned my head and saw you." My coworker would have merged into me if he didn't hear my exhaust. We were heading in the same direction (heading to work in the morning).
I don't doubt your story there is "some" small benefit...but not to the degree to have an entire bumper sticker, t-shirt, and vest patch industry built around. ;) A rider would be much better off using road strategy with road skills to back them up than relying on loud pipes. Also, there needs to be some balance. I am not opposed to the rider hearing their bike...I have 3 motorcycles and 2 of them have aftermarket pipes on them, but, they all still have the baffle in. Straight pipes and extreme exhaust modifications are the problem in my opinion.
And I have noticed an increase in Sport Bikes doing the same thing... clutching in an revving the engine... Rather than using both hands to control the bike...
I was riding with a guy, new to the street who rode rode dirt bikes, he would drag his feet around corners. I asked for an explanation and warned him about it. He crashed some point later. Not surprised here
Thanks for what you do Kevin- I’ve learned a lot and look forward to learning more- I wish you knew how many people you’ve never met have become better riders - I know I’m one😁👍🇺🇸
When riding home through the wooded areas, I have seen the noise influence animals near the road, they don't stick around waiting until I am upon them. They decide to act sooner rather than later, this is especially important at night when they are harder to see. I don't get the same results when driving the car, day or night, and the only reason for that is the lack of noise.
Loud pipes MAY have helped a few decades ago, but these days with sound isolation in most passenger areas of cars specifically to reduce road noise.... not so much.
I’m sure loud pipes save lives on occasion but they also annoy the hell out of communities and neighborhoods. The dumbest thing still floating around is the idea that using your front brake will cause your bike to flip over, that’s just sad in 2024. Great video!
You will never hear any of these ridiculous myths from a trained, skilled, seasoned Motorcyclist. These come from "motor_bike_drivers". They buy a "motorbike" and drive it.
So as someone who used to ride dirt bikes, nver raced just trail riding, some of those skills translated over to my motorcycle, but not many. Learning to balance, brake and throttle control are definitely some things that transferred over but when you trail ride in certain locations especially in and some of the places I have ridden you have to be careful and watch for other off-road vehicles. Going too fast up a trail or not paying attention could lead you coming face-to-face with a Jeep or off the side of the mountain. I've had it happen to me several times from people driving a truck or Jeep down a trail that's made for quads and dirt bikes. I used to go to Windrock OHV Park and the last time I went the trails that were meant for quads and dirt bikes have been taken over by Jeeps and trucks making them almost almost impossible and dangerous to ride on for a quad or dirt bike rider.
Mostly I agree -- but of course I do what I do; no ABS, no traction-control, no racing experience (at least not on a track) and my pipes tend toward the noisier end of the spectrum, but I stay off the throttle in my own neighborhood and although I have laid a bike down a time or two (but not to effectuate a stop), it was because it was obstinately going to places I didn't care to go so I let it go on its way alone... I fared better than the bike in all cases -- some road-rash, yes, but still walking...
The same people who say loud pipes save live because the cars can hear you coming are the same people who say I don't wear a helmet because it blocks me from hearing cars around me. With the loud pipes you can't hear anything around you anyway.
Possibly a loud pipe will alert car drivers of your presence, but typically the loud pipe crowd shuns helmets, gloves, boots and jackets. So the car might miss you today but there are numerous other hazards that don't care about your loud pipes.
I got my last bike loud. I rode it that way until my slip on came in. When I installed and the bike got quiet, there was a grand difference in the way cars noticed me. I continued with the silent pipe until I eventually sold the bike. I don’t like noise however I do agree with the statement “loud pipes saves lives” My current bike is louder than usual, it alerts drivers around me like no amount of riding skill can. I downgraded from a hayabusa to a c50 for now. Trust me, you want all the help you can get where I’m from.
@MCrider please explain. Also include drivers coming out of their driveway or a side street around a blind corner. Include the errant drivers who just don't bother to use mirrors and indicators. Include those who occasionally have their eyes flashing at their phone screens because these are real world situations we meet on a daily. Thank you. I'm always up for learning to be even more safe on the roads.
Also, I do not depend on loud pipes but to dismiss their assistance in alerting the surroundings isn't fair. The errant unnecessarily loud bikers are extreme, and I agree but hearing ones bike goes a long way in adding to the safety. I experience this both ways, while I'm riding and when I'm driving.
@@naz655 My point of disagreement with you was placing loud pipes over riding skill in your statement...that is the problem and the reason for this video.
OK. Maybe I exaggerated it a bit. But I do believe no rider can honestly say that a quiet bike is safer than one you'll hear. But to each his own, I've seen this with many channels with a lot of different explanations and opinions. My experience and those of a lot of riders I ride with are the same. It's very helpful. You see it on a daily. It's a fine line with trying being safe and not just overly loud and obnoxious, but as with everything, moderation is the key.
I enjoy riding in the USA National Park and National Forest. In those locations sounds often travel for miles. Load pipes impacts that atmosphere of places like that. There are people that would like to limit motorcycle access to these wonderful locations due to a few riders with excessively load pipes.
Wouldn't loud pipes impact the Atmosphere everywhere? How about at 3:00 in the morning Riding through a residential neighborhood? The wildlife may hear loud pipes from miles away, but loud pipes wake up Humans trying to sleep and get up for work.
Being a street and dirt bike rider, I do believe that riding dirt makes me a better street rider. I am used to the bike moving around under me and do not panic if I start to slide. I do believe in re-training that I remember what I know. Low speed training and a track day alternating every other year.
My pipes have saved my life (or at least a serious hurting), as I could see drivers looking around for me who obviously couldn't figure out where I was but could obviously hear me. I've also almost run a silent runner or two over in my vehicle because as much as I checked my mirrors and signaled ahead of time, as I was sliding over into the lane some biker came up fast behind me or was riding in a blind spot. I've also avoided a few bikes because I could hear them when I couldn't see them and held off moving over until I could.
Two other myths are, "they came out of nowhere" and "they ____ for no reason". I frequently see the drivers that others say "they came out of nowhere." I also frequently anticipate people doing things that surprise others because I see the reason that they are about to do the unexpected actions. I, of course, have also failed to recognize hazards many times. But I try to recognize these as my failures not the failures of other drivers or riders. Having true empathy for other drivers and riders is a skill that can help with predicting their actions.
Loud pipes let me know a rider was in my blind spot after losing track of where he was while driving my truck & kept me from pulling in front of him. Was a sport bike not a Harley btw. My loud pipes kept acar from backing out of a parking spot in front of me.
Here in Calif I think the message loud pipes saves life's is a good one. You're surrounded by cars on a freeway here and they aren't looking for you. You only have to worry about the cars close to you so the more noise the more they'll know you're there and not change lanes etc right in front of you. I certainly rev my bike so they can hear me when I'm splitting traffic. Legal here!!
I grew up on motorcycles from the age of 10, and 52 years later, though I have ridden constantly, owned over 40 bikes, and have ridden them in at least 25 states from coast to coast, I have never tangled with a car or truck. I associate this with the fact that they have never been able to catch me. 😎
RE loud pipes - Even if they believe it, people take it too far. I live on a scenic route that gets hundreds of motorcycles a day in the summer. I have had motorcycles go by my house that are so loud that it actually hurts my ears like someone stuck pins in them, and my ears are ringing for minutes afterwards. Of course, as you said, they're only that loud after they go by, which means the noise does nothing to stop people pulling out in front of them.
I've never been on a group ride and have no intention of ever going on one. I've seen more reckless behavior from other riders than I have from people in cars.
Hey Kevin, another great Video. In my 35+ years of Riding, I'm a big believer in practice. Fortunately, I didn't believe any of these Myths, unlike many of my Riding Buddies... we had many spirited discussions about them. I've come to the conclusion, that after learning Riding Skills and Road Strategy, I never ride without my Spidi Airbag Vest. I can outride and out think almost anyone I ride with. For that one time the unforeseen happens, I'll be relying on the Airbag Vest to protect my Spine and Vital Organs. It just added to my level of confidence. BTW, the guys mentioned above, who I argue with? They would never wear one...
I was backing out of a parking space in a gas station one night, when I heard an exhaust. I stepped on the brake. As I did, the motorcycle passed just off to my right. He probably had just pulled in from the very nearby road. I didn't see him until he passed me. I doubt it would have killed him, but I would have hit him if I hadn't heard his exhaust noise. It was not overly loud. As far as the sound going backwards, is this to imply that if you are standing in front of a running motorcycle that you can't hear it? Of course you can. As the sound leaves the exhaust pipe, it propagates in all directions, yes, louder to the rear, but 360 degrees. The speed of sound is about 660mph. How fast is the motorcycle going? The argument that you can't hear it until it's in front of you is ludicrous. You are not going to hit someone while changing lanes when the motorcycle is 30 feet behind you, but what about the one about to pass on the left, that has just entered your blind spot? If you can't hear the motorcycle, you may not know it's there. Remember motorcycles are invisible, or so I'm told. But if you hear one, you wilI look twice before changing lanes. I don't think there is any data about how many motorcyclists were not hit because the other driver heard them. BTW, my bike has the stock pipes, they are loud enough for me.
Loud pipes do draw extra attention to stunters, speeders, and other high risk drivers (especially from law enforcement). So in a way, they probably do save many lives.
You can't deny that loud pipes will at a minimum let you know that a bike is in hearing range. That is a plus. Your brain is the main safety device that you should use. Dirt bike experience is a huge advantage in street riding. You take spills when you ride dirt. Makes you learn what is at stake when it comes to pavement.
My Roadliner can stop in an amazingly short distance. The rubber brake lines give me a progressive feel that works well for me. I saw a stat once that 33% more face injuries happened when riders didn't wear a full face. Dirt and road are TOTALLY different. No cars or trucks in dirt.
I was driving a car and rear ended by a motorcycle. He laid it down. He laid it down because he was looking to his right at Lake Pepin instead of where he was driving. I told my wife " hang on, we're going to get rear ended". I couldn't pull ahead because there was a car in front of me. He had an exposed compound fracture of his right femur. It was his third time.
If you live in a rural area where there is a high population of whitetailed deer then I must adamantly say that loud pipes do save lives by reducing the chances of a highway deer collision. I live in such an area and wouldn’t dream of riding a quiet motorcycle at dawn, dusk or at night especially in November during the rut. I agree that loud pipes aren’t much help for humans but they are a tremendous help in encouraging deer to go ahead and cross that road before you get there
One huge issue with " i had to lay her down" that is overlooked is once the bike is down it becomes a uncontrollable 500lb of metal travlleing at speed that will cause catastrophic injury or death to anyone it hits. They are in the process of making full face helmets mandatory.
I had few motorcycle accidents, once a car hitting back of my motorcycle and i throw up in the air and hitting the road, another time, head-on collation with auto rickshaw and I am flying over the auto rickshaw and hitting the road, i was lucky to escape with minor injuries, then approaching a corner too fast at night an unfamiliar road, when i realised that i have no time for breaking nor turning i lift my both legs and let go my motorcycle and i landed on my back on the road and i could hear sound of my motorcycle rolling several times, all those accidents happened before i was 30 years old. I didn't ride a motorcycle for almost 30 years , now im 60 years old and retired from my job, now im preparing for my dream ride, Ladakh the highest motorable road in the world, more than 4000 Km far from my home on my new Himalayan 450. Wish me good luck guys.😍
I enjoy loud pipes, but loud pipes are obnxious to others in low speeds. They are not noticed soon enough at higher speeds. A MC sound moving towards, is compressing the soundwaves because the speed of sound is too close to the vehicle speed, and the passed vehicle is going almost equally fast. The sound is heard pretty much when the car is passed by the MC at high speeds. At low speeds, the loud sound gives the car time to behave as an asshole if they don't happen to like bikes. It's better to predict their movements and take it as slow as needed to brake/evade in time.
The loud pipes save lives thing is real. Other drivers look up from their cell phones nearly 100% of the time when I rev my bike. That goes for drivers attempting to cross into my path in slow speed city traffic: just this afternoon coming into work; I saw a car rolling into my path with the drivers view obscured by a line of cars and as soon as my first rev roared up, their brakes slammed on and their bumper bounced down to indicate the had heard me coming. So... loud pipes DO save lives...
Have to disagree with you straight off. Drove in California on vacation last year where lane splitting is allowed, and the loud bikes coming up from behind me alerted me far before they were even with me, and totally got my attention startling me and just because I have loud pipes doesn't mean I don't use the rest of the tricks in the bag to keep myself safe.
So,I need even LOUDER PIPES! Direction? That's why our heads are on swivels so we can turn to look in different directions to see where the motorcycle/s is/are. Having loud pipes does not supplant safe driving skills/procedures.
Loud pipes are part of the safety package. As you mentioned the noise is ubiquitous, you don’t know when that sound might make a driver look before maneuvering or spook an animal and slow/keep them from running out. No one knows what’s going to break the accident chain, loud pipes along with other safety gear is part of a rider’s safety package.
As Kevin said. The sound travels BEHIND the bike. How many times have you been stopped in traffic and had the crap scared out of you as a bike passed? It's because you didn't hear it coming.
@@serafinsilva1055 Both of you are thinking at speed we travel in many conditions and speeds. When you're in bumper to bumper traffic your pipes can be heard in front of you. You can hear a truck engine behind you when traveling slow. As I said you don't know what will save you or when it will save you.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
In fairness, a patch saying "Loud Pipes provide an aditional saftey factor in certain situations, particularly residential and built up areas where sound can bounce around, that can alert drivers and pedestrians that a motorcycle is nearby" would be more accurate, but take up a lot of real estate on a leather vest
LOL, You win comment of the day!!!
@pirateadam3686 So, I had to put your patch idea to the test...what do you think?
I think I nailed it...
www.mcrider.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/LoudPipes-Patch.jpg
LMAO on that one
@@MCrider I love it! Add it to the store. 😂
@@MCrider 😂😂😂
Rider training saves lives. 👍
Track days save lives.
Amen!
100% ... except for the real royal princesses out there. They think their S**T dont stink.
I’m always told;”If you ride a motorcycle, eventually, you’ll go down.” I have found this to not be true in my 50 years of motorcycling.
That is a favorite saying of people who have crashed. ;)
I did go down but only when I’m practicing my slow speed maneuvering skills.
50 years of riding and have never dropped a bike, not even once? The odds of that may not exactly be 0%, but they are so close to 0 that I'm just going to call it 0.
@@beepbop6697 I’ve gone down on dirt bikes. I’ve never dropped or been down on a road bike. I know no one believes me, but it’s true. My bike did fall one time when the side stand sunk into the ground. But I wasn’t on it at the time.
@@billfowler2867that's great and you are an anomaly! I hope you still wear proper crashing gear anyway.
As a retired MSF Coach I've found when someone says "I had to lay the bike down" that's just their way of saying they screwed up so they are saving face with their friends. Just glad they were in the class learning better techniques to avoid/handle these situations in first place. THANKS for the this video!
I add a loud horn and I enjoy my quiet ride and use the loud horn to get people’s attention. Plus not speeding, never needing to do stunts and keeping a safe riding distance at all times, is everyone’s best option to keeping safe.
'Speed kills' and 'tricks are for skids'
"I hadda lay 'er down" is what people say when they lost control panic braking and want to make it seem like they meant to do that.
😄
I've been doing it wrong, I thought the object was to stay ON the bike.🤔
You can definitely see in crash videos that the bike and rider both speed up when they are sliding on the road. Sliding greatly increases your stopping distance.
Does it stop and turn better when you're not on it?
I'm glad you mentioned "safety in numbers." In all seriousness... I've seen more accidents in numbers. Riders are distracted trying to cross talk, and hot dog it to one another... not paying attention to what's in front and not keeping their line. I'm very selective with whom I ride, and I keep my number low, below or at five.
I. Hunt deer. One deer by itself is very cautious. A group of deer are much less attentive.
If a driver approaching a pack of riders strays across the line, there's a very good chance that the cyclist closest to the center of the road way gets clocked, and others nearby go down because of it. Riding in packs isn't very safe regardless of who's at fault that metal enclosed driver is coming out the winner in the meat hitting the pavement game.
The temptation to try to keep up with riders above your skill level is also great
Myth number 8: Women love guys who ride motorcycles - nah they couldn't care less. They only figure if you have that kind of money to spend on a hobby you'll have lots to spend on them.
The best way to attract the opposite sex by having a motorcycle is to start by being female.
Some might also think, “I have a better chance of collecting life insurance on him.”
Quoted for TRUTH, Brother !
One of my favorite sayings, "Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
Probably the truest statement would be "Practice does not make perfect because nothing is ever perfect." And no fair saying God is perfect.
I think Robin Williams said it best. "You ever think God gets stoned? Just look at the platipus, I think you might think he does."
I'm a 34-year MSF & State rider coach and have been harping on all of these points for years. Nicely worded. Two of my comments relayed in every class "If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride the bike would do" and "Make every ride count...you can go out & get 10 years of riding experience or 1 year of riding experience 10 times".
Loud pipes: 1) Deaden your own hearing. 2) Create hostility in the other motorists on the road. 3) Trigger panic reactions in nervous drivers / make babies/dogs freak out.
All of that reduces your safety.
I really appreciate this channel. Thanks for all that you do for us.
Glad you enjoy it!
2:39 as a rider of 17 years I’ve never once laid a bike down to avoid anything lol. Every person who “used to ride” has said this for a reason. But it’s easier to maneuver on two wheels. “The more you know”
I appreciate your well prepared and articulate presentation.
I appreciate that!
Training is magical. I took the MSF Advanced Rider Course and the Ride Like a Pro course after already having 25+ years of experience. Game changer! As the Motorman said, he thought he had 20 years of experience when what he actually had was 1 year of experience repeated 20 times.
I always feel that you are well prepared for your show. This means you are saying what you meant to say, not just rabbit holing into unknown subjects and misinforming.
Love the channel.
Emergency braking skills (and also swerving to miss an obstacle) should be practiced in a parking lot first, but also, then at 55+mph. The speed DOES make a big difference. Particularly in swerving, you have to shift your weight much more intentfully to swerve at 55 than at 35 if you think you are going to miss something.
I'm not sure loud pipes don't save lives. I've been in my car at a stop just to see a crotch rocket zip by. Which made me think to myself, if I had not already come to a stop. I would have hit the rider. My point here is I didn't hear it. I had come to a stop, looked right, looked left when I returned to look right, the bike was in front of me. Maybe I'm just tuned to hear bikes, but I've always heard a harley coming and going. I'm not disputing you, just my thoughts on pipes. I find your videos to be very informative and accurate.
Most of the exhaust noise is transmitted out the rear of the bike. A car on a highway will not hear the "loud pipes" until the rider is next to or in front of the car.
However, they are very noticeable in a quiet neighborhood and do well at pissing everyone off that enjoys silence.
Sudden noises get attention.
A crotch rocket approaching from a distance is a increasingly louder noise. Not the same. By the time your brain figures it out it's already gone.
Loud pipes definitely work when la get splitting at slow speeds. I see it all the time, it's not fool proof but combined flashing lights pretty effective.
Loud Pipes...I yield to those who chose, but I prefer my 135decible air horns. Groups, I agree, to many don't know how to ride. Lots of mileage experience...worked with a guy who had tens of thousands of riding time, and allegedly an MSF instructor, who failed the police motor officer course, and broke an bone doing so. Not enough slow speed experience. Practice always
A few observations from a few decades of riding..
Riding with a vintage sport bike or gold wing club is totally different than a weekend pick up group of knuckleheads.
Almost every guy I knew over the years that decided to buy a street bike after years of dirt biking, got hurt.
I was involved in several (potential life ending) accidents. In two, I was hit by drivers that didnt see me. Both had been drinking, (and so had I)
I realized and accepted that i was culpable, (even though in both instances, the car driver was found at fault), and that I could have taken steps to avoid them.
Think ahead, scan constantly, ride with your "spot" always further up the road, not directly in front of, or around you.
Be smart. Check your ego. Ride defensively. Make parking lot practice a routine. Take accountability for yourself, and dont blame others. Accept that they dont see you, ride like no one sees you..
I have quiet motorcycles and loud motorcycles.I was riding one of my loud motorcycles a1700 Roadstar on a two lane highway at the posted speed of 70mph.I was in a no passing zone.The car behind me passed on the shoulder.I just assume he didn’t like listening to my sweet sounding big V-Twin.🤷♂️
That’s probably true. Nobody likes loud obnoxious noises, especially from motorcycles.
That guy probably would have done the same thing if you were in a Tesla. "Some men you just can't reach" as the guy from 'Cool Hand Luke' said.
I thought roadstars were v4
@@krookpd01nope, V-Twin. The V-max is a V-4 though, and absolutely nuts.
I have a royal star tour deluxe,,it is a v4
Thank you Kevin. Some very reasonable advise and explanation.
I've been riding since I was 16, now in my sixties. Had a deer run in front of me going to work early in the morning several yearsago. Didn't even have ime to touch the break. Went down, had leathers on, but still had burns on my arms and legs from sliding on the pavement, very painful. I found your videos several months ago and found out that I didn't have the skills I really need to ride safely. I thank you for sharing your experience with all of us.
As usual, great video. Thank you so much, I am an avid follower. Been riding about 30 years and still learning. I wanted, however, to dispute the statement that loud pipes don't save lives. This is not my experience at all. I have ridden a Harley for the last 8 years, which replaced a Honda CBR600RR which I crashed when someone pulled out in front of me from a side road. The number of times I've been saved simply by the noise of my HD is well over 20. Those noisy pipes have literally saved my life over 20 times in 8 years. I SEE distracted and daydreaming drivers get violently pulled back to reality (often jumping in their seats as I approach in an adjacent lane) by the noise of my bike, and then they look around them to see where the noise is coming from. That NEVER happened on my (much quieter) CBR. Were it not for the noise, they would not have been remotely aware that I was near them on the road and therefore would have manoeuvred as if I wasn't there. Traffic light-controlled intersections are a particular bug bear of mine (lots of bad experiences), but the noise of my HD announces my presence/arrival and I can see that drivers are either looking for me or have already made visual contact with me - again, a stark difference to my experience riding quieter sports bikes. I won't ever go back to riding a "quiet" motorcycle because of my experience with the loud HD.
As a new rider, I really appreciate all this content - it helps me understand the skills and techniques necessary - Thank you very much
When you are on the highway going 70 your loud pipes will never keep anyone from pulling out in front of you because your pipes face the opposite direction of the way you are going and almost all of the sound is projecting backwards. People in front of you who are in their cars with the windows rolled up are not going to hear anything until it's too late. Sometimes though if you are on a four or six lane highway and a person is driving next to you that person might hear you before they thoughtlessly change lanes without looking. Over all loud pipes probably don't do much good but occasionally they might. I don't have loud pipes anymore though because I just got tired of them.
Except for my Suzuki X6, none of my "quiet" bikes, actually were, if they were running.
Well done. Ive been riding on and off road for over 50 yrs now. While i could make a slight argument for some of these, this is well thought and and obviously comes from year of practical experience. Thanks!
I've heard several of these mentioned many times. Have had many disagree about the loud pipes saves lives post I made a while back. The post was even sharing information showing why loud pipes don't save lives and many still disagreed. Great video!
Don't trust anyone else to keep you safe while riding! You mentioned demo days at HD, I rode in a group like that and even had a motorcycle police officer providing assistance to stop traffic at a traffic light. I got hit boroadside by a car that didn't yield. No tickets were issued, but an officer that wasn't at the scene wrote the report and made it seem like I was at fault. Luckily I wasn't severely injured but no lawyers for bikers would take my case to pay for my chiropractic visits, they told me to try and work it out w the insurance company. What a mess, sued the insurance co. to get that paid. So, I guess my real point is, flagged riders front and back, police assitance at the intersection, and years of riding didn't stop that car from proceeding thru the traffic signal in the only open lane while everyone else was stopped! Love to ride, but anyone who says it isn't dangerous, would be wrong! Keep the rubber on the road and the shiney side up!!!!
Knowing what to do is most important. I bought a 680 lb 1,352 cc Kawasaki after 47 years from my first motorcycle, a 500 cc Yamaha. On the ride home from the purchase, I was going 80+ mph, and a beat-up landscape truck pulling a trailer does an illegal u-turn in front of me as if I was invisible. Swerving was not an option, and I had to do a panic stop, basically squeezing the front brake to 100% to a front tire wheelie stopping within 6 feet. I had not "practiced" this but knew what to do, having watched many a video. I have practiced hard braking since but never as radical as that miracle "stoppee." My understanding is that you can squeeze to 95+% if you start at 2% first, to 5%, to 10%, to 50%, and so on treating the bike as a unicycle if you are balanced straight up and down. Whether or not this is the right way to think about it, it worked for me.
FYI, I've been riding long enough that when I started full face helmets on the street weren't even a thing yet. Back then the same know it alls would tell you that wearing any helmet would cause neck injuries. Technology changes but stupidity remains the same...
Adding an airbag vest drastically reduces neck injuries by limiting head motion when inflated.
Riding responsibly saves lives not loud pipes.
truth... loud pipes are annoying, and shitty motorcycle riders
Always go information, thank you, sir, for what you do.
Thanks as always, I agree with all you've said with one small caveat. While I have never been an advocate of loud pipes I did put some slightly fruity, mellifluous sounding pipes on my old TDM900 some years back and noticed within a few months that no one was trying to merge over into my lane in traffic any more! The standard pipes were very quiet and I had often experienced drivers start to change lane right next to me, when I had been riding alongside of them for some time, yet they hadn't noticed me! I just doesn't happen any more. Now of course I agree we have to ride defensively and be responsible for our own road position etc, but sometimes traffic determines that you are next to a driver in the next lane and it seems for all the reasons you've mentioned they are still oblivious. So my thinking is 'Fruity pipes help'...
TRX850 and the same scenario. I commuted daily in heavy but fast flowing traffic and I would have an incident per day when quiet but when I took the baffles out no one would come near me.
In my opinion using loud pipes as a safety measure is a poor strategy. The rider is counting on everyone else to have vehicles with a sane amount of noise so they can be heard above the rest of the street noise. Why should motorcycles be allowed to massively contribute to noise pollution and no one else. If other vehicles get louder it leads to a never ending escalation of obnoxious noise. It is a shame that law enforcement ignores people using these illegal mods to their bike. It just rightly makes people hate motorcycles when they are subjected to ear splitting noise.
Totally agree with you. Lots of people dislike bikers in general "just because" and noise pollution piles on another reason.
This is golden Kevin. Sharing it on my next Motovlog. Cheers from Frisco.
Excellent video. Thanx brother.
If you can brake at all competently then braking all the way to the impact is better than "laying er down"
Loud pipes DO save lives. I'm living proof of it. I have 500k miles of downtown Los Angeles traffic commuting and at time revving the engine so folks who are on their cell phones can hear me has saved my life. Why not use the horn, some people ask, I use that too at times but my hand is already on the throttle vs the split second it would take me to reach over to the horn switch.
Riding from 1962 and always hated load pipes
That's why I love my Goldwing
Riding a motorcycle, while wearing no helmet, and dressed only in a T-shirt, Bermuda shorts, and running shoes - on the streets - is the clearest indicator that the rider is an A**hole!
Loud Pipes - Had a Harley lane split on the freeway today, couldn't hear him until he was next to my rear driver side door.
I totally agree. My Meteor 350 is a perfect city bike. I live in Houston Texas. However, this bike is also wonderful for taking back road day trips.
I have the same bike! Love it so much! Stay safe on the road bro!
Everyone has an opinion but you can’t argue with facts. All great points sir.
Thanks for the info.
Loud pipes save egos
Interesting blog and although i don`t agree with all your points, I have just subscribed.
Four things to add for safer riding are :-
Learn to be able to read the nature of the road you`re on; Especially when you don`t know it.
Trust your instincts - they can avoid you unnecesary situations.
If you never ride to your limits - you`ll never know where your limits are. Know your limits.
Never trust another road user that you don`t know.
Cheers.
A well presented film. I have learned a lot from riding 'off road' from trials to wheelie school via race school [and tracing] and I have found something from each that I can use on the road. A lot is about attitude. If you treat yourself as a pupil who knows nothing any time you are getting training you will learn a lot more. This is from someone who has their second day of first aid refresher course tomorrow and used to teach the subject until 8 years ago - the instructor is more up to date than I am so she will know more than me.
"Practice makes perfect", they say. No, it doesn't, really. But practicing your bad habits for 40 years will make you very good at exhibiting bad habits.
Good job! Thanks. We can come up with justifications for just about anything we do. I’d feel better about the loud pipes folks if they’d just admit they like a noisy bikes rather than trying to justify it.
I do like my moderately loud pipes, no doubt but do find them useful when Lane Splitting at slow speeds.
Good video you were exactly right on some people will argue that loud pipes safer but they are not, I appreciate a good sounding motorcycle but excessive noise can hide important sounds you should be hearing, im surprised they don’t ticket loud bikes
Loud pipes save animals lives.I ride a six cylinder Valkyrie with straight pipes and I have had thousands of deer, elk and even Buffalo move out of my way. Many dogs and kittens have been saved. I live in the rural southern Appalachian Mts. I KNOW that my loud pipes have saved me in many a blind curve. The quiet cars hit deer continuously. Our roads are littered with animal carcasses. Each of those carcasses could represent a dead motorcyclist.
must be awesome to live where u do and be an alert rider(except for animal carcasses of course )i live in central nj and it takes 10 minutes to cross the street on foot or tires
I have biked to the 4 corners of North America and to 41 of the 50 states. The Southern Appalachians have the sweetest riding I have found. The roads just “flow”.
I think the biggest problem is that people aren't trained to look for the smaller silhouette of a bike & rider. Sound is relative to what's around you atm. Sight usually is the more common and immediate response.
Excellent video. The Harley group I use to ride with divided us into two groups. Experienced, and lessor. The experienced groups went on ahead in a tight group, the lessor group keep it slow and riders where well spaced apart. Even riding in an experienced group, it always gave me a a bad feeling that someone may not be paying attention, and as such kept me uneasy.
Today I ride a BMW, and compared to the Harley, I see no difference, in the way drivers pay no attention to us. Via pulling out, merging over, and a thousand other ways that violate our safety.
Regarding myth 6, and dirt bikes. Back when I was about 20something (now 64). I was riding my Honda SL250 street legal trail bike on the regular to and from work and or polytech. One day on the way home I decided to to get a road tyre fitted instead of wearing out a knobbly on the motorway / streets. Nearing home I was on a twisting hill and dedicied to "see what this new tyre could do" especially since it was raining at the time. Everything went well until the top where I was cresting a negative camber curve. I ended up Fully crossed up, back end sliding out speedway style, leaning deep into the curve while standing up and counter balancing the bike and I made it safely or at least successfully around the bend.
I had not really been a well practised off road rider by any means, But one of my workmates was. In a conversation a few weeks earlier he had said the way to keep it on the track when it slides out is to just what I described above. Somehow in the moment I needed that wisdom it came to me. Without that advice I don't think I would have made that turn, and I never tried to repeat it.
great points to speak of! i agree 100%
I don’t know how many time I’ve said that loud pipes do nothing but annoy the people behind you.
And everyone walking on the sidewalk, outdoor patios, kids at the ball diamond, people getting gas, in the drive thru.....
I didn’t see my favorite “myth that won’t die” which is the counter-steering “magic speed” myth. Most people now seem to accept the fact that counter-steering is how motorcycles are steered, but most, including most instructors, still teach that counter-steering only works above some magic speed. The speed given varies by instructors, but 10-15 MPH seems typical. Counter-steering works with ANY non-zero speed.
Agree with your analysis, but it is hard to balance-steer at slow enough speeds to demonstrate. No-hands on a bicycle is still do-able, but I don't try it while parking my motorcycle.
@@1959Dragon Absolutely. The counter-steering gets lost in the “noise” of the rapid motions to retain balance, but at least one university instrumented a bicycle and you can clearly see that the counter-steering motion leads an intentional change in lean angle of the bike. I agree that is is hard to demonstrate at low speeds, but it can be done at 5 MPH, it just takes a huge input and you risk crashing before you can recover. 😁
And of course nobody tells kids anything about "counter steering" , yet they manage to get around corners quite happily.
Too easy to micro analyse something that occurs naturally then fill a RUclips Channel for half an hour with something that I'd never heard of in forty years of biking.
@@fabianmckenna8197 Except that you are wrong. Failing to negotiate a corner is one of the most prevalent motorcycle accident scenarios and is directly related to not understanding counter-steering. Being still ignorant after 40 years isn’t something to be proud of.
I was recently on the highway in my F150 and could hear a Harley. I looked all around, checked my mirrors, could't see any motorcycle around. Seconds later the Harley passed me, he had been perfectly in my blind spot no matter how much i looked for him i couldn't see him. But i heard him . If I hadnt heard him and decided to do a lane change he would have been toast.
Loud pipes are additive, not prevention. Hand on heart ❤️ ✋️. I have been told, "I was about to change lanes, but I heard a bike. I tuned my head and saw you." My coworker would have merged into me if he didn't hear my exhaust. We were heading in the same direction (heading to work in the morning).
I don't doubt your story there is "some" small benefit...but not to the degree to have an entire bumper sticker, t-shirt, and vest patch industry built around. ;)
A rider would be much better off using road strategy with road skills to back them up than relying on loud pipes.
Also, there needs to be some balance. I am not opposed to the rider hearing their bike...I have 3 motorcycles and 2 of them have aftermarket pipes on them, but, they all still have the baffle in. Straight pipes and extreme exhaust modifications are the problem in my opinion.
And I have noticed an increase in Sport Bikes doing the same thing... clutching in an revving the engine... Rather than using both hands to control the bike...
I was riding with a guy, new to the street who rode rode dirt bikes, he would drag his feet around corners. I asked for an explanation and warned him about it. He crashed some point later. Not surprised here
Great video
Thanks for what you do Kevin- I’ve learned a lot and look forward to learning more- I wish you knew how many people you’ve never met have become better riders - I know I’m one😁👍🇺🇸
I appreciate that!
When riding home through the wooded areas, I have seen the noise influence animals near the road, they don't stick around waiting until I am upon them. They decide to act sooner rather than later, this is especially important at night when they are harder to see. I don't get the same results when driving the car, day or night, and the only reason for that is the lack of noise.
Loud pipes MAY have helped a few decades ago, but these days with sound isolation in most passenger areas of cars specifically to reduce road noise.... not so much.
I don't ride in groups or with riders that I don't know unless we have a discussion on techniques, spacing, passing etc before we set out.
I’m sure loud pipes save lives on occasion but they also annoy the hell out of communities and neighborhoods. The dumbest thing still floating around is the idea that using your front brake will cause your bike to flip over, that’s just sad in 2024. Great video!
Thank you for this most informative content. Regards from Poland👋
You will never hear any of these ridiculous myths from a trained, skilled, seasoned Motorcyclist. These come from "motor_bike_drivers". They buy a "motorbike" and drive it.
So as someone who used to ride dirt bikes, nver raced just trail riding, some of those skills translated over to my motorcycle, but not many. Learning to balance, brake and throttle control are definitely some things that transferred over but when you trail ride in certain locations especially in and some of the places I have ridden you have to be careful and watch for other off-road vehicles. Going too fast up a trail or not paying attention could lead you coming face-to-face with a Jeep or off the side of the mountain. I've had it happen to me several times from people driving a truck or Jeep down a trail that's made for quads and dirt bikes. I used to go to Windrock OHV Park and the last time I went the trails that were meant for quads and dirt bikes have been taken over by Jeeps and trucks making them almost almost impossible and dangerous to ride on for a quad or dirt bike rider.
Mostly I agree -- but of course I do what I do; no ABS, no traction-control, no racing experience (at least not on a track) and my pipes tend toward the noisier end of the spectrum, but I stay off the throttle in my own neighborhood and although I have laid a bike down a time or two (but not to effectuate a stop), it was because it was obstinately going to places I didn't care to go so I let it go on its way alone... I fared better than the bike in all cases -- some road-rash, yes, but still walking...
The same people who say loud pipes save live because the cars can hear you coming are the same people who say I don't wear a helmet because it blocks me from hearing cars around me. With the loud pipes you can't hear anything around you anyway.
Possibly a loud pipe will alert car drivers of your presence, but typically the loud pipe crowd shuns helmets, gloves, boots and jackets. So the car might miss you today but there are numerous other hazards that don't care about your loud pipes.
I got my last bike loud. I rode it that way until my slip on came in. When I installed and the bike got quiet, there was a grand difference in the way cars noticed me. I continued with the silent pipe until I eventually sold the bike. I don’t like noise however I do agree with the statement “loud pipes saves lives” My current bike is louder than usual, it alerts drivers around me like no amount of riding skill can. I downgraded from a hayabusa to a c50 for now. Trust me, you want all the help you can get where I’m from.
"it alerts drivers around me like no amount of riding skill can"
I have to say I whole heartedly disagree with this statement.
@MCrider please explain. Also include drivers coming out of their driveway or a side street around a blind corner. Include the errant drivers who just don't bother to use mirrors and indicators. Include those who occasionally have their eyes flashing at their phone screens because these are real world situations we meet on a daily. Thank you. I'm always up for learning to be even more safe on the roads.
Also, I do not depend on loud pipes but to dismiss their assistance in alerting the surroundings isn't fair.
The errant unnecessarily loud bikers are extreme, and I agree but hearing ones bike goes a long way in adding to the safety. I experience this both ways, while I'm riding and when I'm driving.
@@naz655 My point of disagreement with you was placing loud pipes over riding skill in your statement...that is the problem and the reason for this video.
OK. Maybe I exaggerated it a bit. But I do believe no rider can honestly say that a quiet bike is safer than one you'll hear.
But to each his own, I've seen this with many channels with a lot of different explanations and opinions. My experience and those of a lot of riders I ride with are the same. It's very helpful. You see it on a daily. It's a fine line with trying being safe and not just overly loud and obnoxious, but as with everything, moderation is the key.
I enjoy riding in the USA National Park and National Forest. In those locations sounds often travel for miles. Load pipes impacts that atmosphere of places like that. There are people that would like to limit motorcycle access to these wonderful locations due to a few riders with excessively load pipes.
Wouldn't loud pipes impact the Atmosphere everywhere? How about at 3:00 in the morning Riding through a residential neighborhood? The wildlife may hear loud pipes from miles away, but loud pipes wake up Humans trying to sleep and get up for work.
Being a street and dirt bike rider, I do believe that riding dirt makes me a better street rider. I am used to the bike moving around under me and do not panic if I start to slide. I do believe in re-training that I remember what I know. Low speed training and a track day alternating every other year.
Not to mention dirt biking teaches you how to respond to a wheel losing traction on pavement instead of panicking.
My pipes have saved my life (or at least a serious hurting), as I could see drivers looking around for me who obviously couldn't figure out where I was but could obviously hear me. I've also almost run a silent runner or two over in my vehicle because as much as I checked my mirrors and signaled ahead of time, as I was sliding over into the lane some biker came up fast behind me or was riding in a blind spot. I've also avoided a few bikes because I could hear them when I couldn't see them and held off moving over until I could.
Two other myths are, "they came out of nowhere" and "they ____ for no reason". I frequently see the drivers that others say "they came out of nowhere." I also frequently anticipate people doing things that surprise others because I see the reason that they are about to do the unexpected actions. I, of course, have also failed to recognize hazards many times. But I try to recognize these as my failures not the failures of other drivers or riders.
Having true empathy for other drivers and riders is a skill that can help with predicting their actions.
And it helps you not get into a road rage situation
Loud pipes let me know a rider was in my blind spot after losing track of where he was while driving my truck & kept me from pulling in front of him. Was a sport bike not a Harley btw.
My loud pipes kept acar from backing out of a parking spot in front of me.
So does a loud horn but at least with a horn you can take your finger off the button
Here in Calif I think the message loud pipes saves life's is a good one. You're surrounded by cars on a freeway here and they aren't looking for you. You only have to worry about the cars close to you so the more noise the more they'll know you're there and not change lanes etc right in front of you. I certainly rev my bike so they can hear me when I'm splitting traffic. Legal here!!
I grew up on motorcycles from the age of 10, and 52 years later, though I have ridden constantly, owned over 40 bikes, and have ridden them in at least 25 states from coast to coast, I have never tangled with a car or truck. I associate this with the fact that they have never been able to catch me. 😎
RE loud pipes - Even if they believe it, people take it too far. I live on a scenic route that gets hundreds of motorcycles a day in the summer. I have had motorcycles go by my house that are so loud that it actually hurts my ears like someone stuck pins in them, and my ears are ringing for minutes afterwards. Of course, as you said, they're only that loud after they go by, which means the noise does nothing to stop people pulling out in front of them.
I've never been on a group ride and have no intention of ever going on one. I've seen more reckless behavior from other riders than I have from people in cars.
Hey Kevin, another great Video. In my 35+ years of Riding, I'm a big believer in practice. Fortunately, I didn't believe any of these Myths, unlike many of my Riding Buddies... we had many spirited discussions about them. I've come to the conclusion, that after learning Riding Skills and Road Strategy, I never ride without my Spidi Airbag Vest. I can outride and out think almost anyone I ride with. For that one time the unforeseen happens, I'll be relying on the Airbag Vest to protect my Spine and Vital Organs. It just added to my level of confidence. BTW, the guys mentioned above, who I argue with? They would never wear one...
I was backing out of a parking space in a gas station one night, when I heard an exhaust. I stepped on the brake. As I did, the motorcycle passed just off to my right. He probably had just pulled in from the very nearby road. I didn't see him until he passed me. I doubt it would have killed him, but I would have hit him if I hadn't heard his exhaust noise. It was not overly loud. As far as the sound going backwards, is this to imply that if you are standing in front of a running motorcycle that you can't hear it? Of course you can. As the sound leaves the exhaust pipe, it propagates in all directions, yes, louder to the rear, but 360 degrees. The speed of sound is about 660mph. How fast is the motorcycle going? The argument that you can't hear it until it's in front of you is ludicrous. You are not going to hit someone while changing lanes when the motorcycle is 30 feet behind you, but what about the one about to pass on the left, that has just entered your blind spot? If you can't hear the motorcycle, you may not know it's there. Remember motorcycles are invisible, or so I'm told. But if you hear one, you wilI look twice before changing lanes. I don't think there is any data about how many motorcyclists were not hit because the other driver heard them. BTW, my bike has the stock pipes, they are loud enough for me.
Loud pipes do draw extra attention to stunters, speeders, and other high risk drivers (especially from law enforcement). So in a way, they probably do save many lives.
You can't deny that loud pipes will at a minimum let you know that a bike is in hearing range. That is a plus.
Your brain is the main safety device that you should use.
Dirt bike experience is a huge advantage in street riding. You take spills when you ride dirt. Makes you learn what is at stake when it comes to pavement.
My Roadliner can stop in an amazingly short distance. The rubber brake lines give me a progressive feel that works well for me. I saw a stat once that 33% more face injuries happened when riders didn't wear a full face. Dirt and road are TOTALLY different. No cars or trucks in dirt.
I was driving a car and rear ended by a motorcycle. He laid it down. He laid it down because he was looking to his right at Lake Pepin instead of where he was driving. I told my wife " hang on, we're going to get rear ended". I couldn't pull ahead because there was a car in front of me. He had an exposed compound fracture of his right femur. It was his third time.
If you live in a rural area where there is a high population of whitetailed deer then I must adamantly say that loud pipes do save lives by reducing the chances of a highway deer collision. I live in such an area and wouldn’t dream of riding a quiet motorcycle at dawn, dusk or at night especially in November during the rut. I agree that loud pipes aren’t much help for humans but they are a tremendous help in encouraging deer to go ahead and cross that road before you get there
One huge issue with " i had to lay her down" that is overlooked is once the bike is down it becomes a uncontrollable 500lb of metal travlleing at speed that will cause catastrophic injury or death to anyone it hits.
They are in the process of making full face helmets mandatory.
They who?
@@unsafe_at_any_speed The government.
@@stewartnorton6386 not our government
I had few motorcycle accidents, once a car hitting back of my motorcycle and i throw up in the air and hitting the road, another time, head-on collation with auto rickshaw and I am flying over the auto rickshaw and hitting the road, i was lucky to escape with minor injuries, then approaching a corner too fast at night an unfamiliar road, when i realised that i have no time for breaking nor turning i lift my both legs and let go my motorcycle and i landed on my back on the road and i could hear sound of my motorcycle rolling several times, all those accidents happened before i was 30 years old.
I didn't ride a motorcycle for almost 30 years , now im 60 years old and retired from my job, now im preparing for my dream ride, Ladakh the highest motorable road in the world, more than 4000 Km far from my home on my new Himalayan 450.
Wish me good luck guys.😍
I enjoy loud pipes, but loud pipes are obnxious to others in low speeds. They are not noticed soon enough at higher speeds.
A MC sound moving towards, is compressing the soundwaves because the speed of sound is too close to the vehicle speed, and the passed vehicle is going almost equally fast. The sound is heard pretty much when the car is passed by the MC at high speeds.
At low speeds, the loud sound gives the car time to behave as an asshole if they don't happen to like bikes. It's better to predict their movements and take it as slow as needed to brake/evade in time.
The loud pipes save lives thing is real. Other drivers look up from their cell phones nearly 100% of the time when I rev my bike. That goes for drivers attempting to cross into my path in slow speed city traffic: just this afternoon coming into work; I saw a car rolling into my path with the drivers view obscured by a line of cars and as soon as my first rev roared up, their brakes slammed on and their bumper bounced down to indicate the had heard me coming.
So... loud pipes DO save lives...
I wear a Scotpion Exo Tech,can be worn full face or chin guard deploys to back of helmet .
Have to disagree with you straight off. Drove in California on vacation last year where lane splitting is allowed, and the loud bikes coming up from behind me alerted me far before they were even with me, and totally got my attention startling me and just because I have loud pipes doesn't mean I don't use the rest of the tricks in the bag to keep myself safe.
I started out riding off road and moto cross and really it only helped using the clutch,whole different world on the road and with traffic!
So,I need even LOUDER PIPES!
Direction? That's why our heads are on swivels so we can turn to look in different directions to see where the motorcycle/s is/are.
Having loud pipes does not supplant safe driving skills/procedures.
Loud pipes are part of the safety package. As you mentioned the noise is ubiquitous, you don’t know when that sound might make a driver look before maneuvering or spook an animal and slow/keep them from running out. No one knows what’s going to break the accident chain, loud pipes along with other safety gear is part of a rider’s safety package.
As Kevin said. The sound travels BEHIND the bike. How many times have you been stopped in traffic and had the crap scared out of you as a bike passed? It's because you didn't hear it coming.
@@serafinsilva1055 Both of you are thinking at speed we travel in many conditions and speeds. When you're in bumper to bumper traffic your pipes can be heard in front of you. You can hear a truck engine behind you when traveling slow. As I said you don't know what will save you or when it will save you.