Kind of similar to how you fly the MiG-15 against the F-86. Keep it in the vertical, play chicken with his nose position and just energy trap until he falls away from you
I don’t agree that it was a horrible dogfighter. In 1972, after learning how to actually fight with the phantom by using the Vertical and not turning horizontally, the Navy F-4s in particular did VERY well against the MiGs: primarily with aim-9s. I believe it was around a 13:1 ratio BUT…your point is well taken. If you lose speed and find yourself trying to turn with a bad guy, you need to …..not do that…and get out. Good video!
You are all doing it wrong. First you open the cockpit, and start throwing things at your opponent…if that fails, you throw your RIO. It’s how you dogfight in an F-4…seriously.
475 knots, 7G. Use all your gas to eat that a$$ if you absolutely have no other choice (or are feeling spicy) Stay fast, stay vertical, stay spiraling (Gurren Lagann style) Keep the fug away from 4th gens unless they're super tied up and probably best to hit and run on them if you have to. Do not be afraid to haul ass to make another pass (even if that pass doesn't come for half an hour because you went home, took a poo, and took back off again.) Feeling low on SA? Walk away. (You probably are low on SA, be honest with yourself.) Sound about right bawss?
@@alpenfoxvideo7255 that's fortunately incorrect. The important thing here is Lift vs Drag (L/D ratio) not JUST the drag and the AoA where the slats are scheduled to pop out gives so much more lift that the increase in drag isn't enough to kill your sustained rate. It increases your sustained turn rate per real life data from several USAF manuals and MDD, NASA studies. If you keep them in, induced drag increases anyway, but this time, you have way less lift for the same increase in drag, thereby killing your 2 circle rate. Pull more AoA to get more lift and then the resulting flow separation increases your drag through the roof - this is what slats prevent. A sea level turn at 475-510 kn at the AoA when the slats just deploy (~11/12 units on the gauge) with 4xAIM-9 and 2xAIM-7E, 50% fuel will earn you a 6.9-7.1G sustained turn - something neither the F1 or MiG-21 can do. The F-5 might be close in DCS. Clean, it's not even a contest - the F-4 will beat them all. Do the same with the slats locked in and see what happens.
How quick is this F4 on Enigmas server? Clean. Faster than the Mirage at 30k and on the Deck? Faster than the Viggen? Faster than the Migs? I need to know before purchasing.
Nothing beats the Viggen on the deck. The F4 with full missiles will be around 680 knots max on the deck, so things such as the viggen will have a higher top speed. It accelerates faster then the F1 and a bit slower then fishbed and viggen. Higher altitudes (10-30) you will be faster then anything when it comes to acceleration and overall top speed
@@Nemisisxdd That sounds great! Full Missiles is eight Air to Air Missiles? I’m a fan of the Viggen. It was my first Fast Jet that I learned. I just hope they don’t lock the F-4 behind a points wall on Enigma’s Server. Cheers! :)
@@British_Dragon-4K-Simulations F4 is 8 missiles yes. 4 Fox 1 4 Fox 2. F4 is currently not behind a point wall on ECW. No problem mate, glad to be of help.
@Nemisisxdd nothing in the coldwar lineup beats the F1 at top speed on the deck, it will outrun and rundown anything that is in clean configuration even with 2 missiles on the wingtips, Viggen and F4 included. Trust me i've tested it in mission editor.
The Viggen’s really not all that in terms of acceleration either, just about everything Red has will out accelerate it from low speed without much effort in my experience. I don’t have it personally but a handful of people in my discord claim they tend to sit in first stage burner more or less constantly to keep their speed respectable.
You need to wait at least 4 seconds before you let the missile off the rail. If you're doing that and they're still going dumb I got no clue what else is happening ;-;
Chances are The aspect switch in the backseat is set to wide, If your shooting at someone down low over terrain the radar needs to be able to discriminate between the target and ground clutter it does this thru a set of speed gates based on closure rates between you and the target. Try it in forward or nose with a head on shot, Be aware you don't need to STT The target just place the pipper over what you're shooting at
careful boresight lock likes to lock ground side reflections, be sure that that is the real enemy by wiggling your tail and looking at the scope if the track follows the real aircraft
@@ColdWarGhost77 You can't tell Jester 2.0 AI to change the aspect search of the RADAR? I thought this was an updated Jester? From what I've seen it looks oversimplified to the F-14's Jester menu. One of the things that is holding me back from purchasing the F-4. I have Voice Attack commands for Jester in the F-14 for things like aspect, range and modes. A Voice Attack command to teleport myself into the back seat to change a switch seems silly. I'm hoping they fix this if it is true.
In my very limited time in this, I tend to agree about not trying to turn the fight and just running. Tried several times to do the scissors, or cause overshoot but being such a brick it just cannot pull it off the same way the light jets can. Rating is good but fuel as you mentioned, though I do worry more about 3rd parties - they always ruin long rate fights.
This isint warthunder, Heatblur prides themselves on realisim, so no, there wont be a buff maybe tweaks but if its not correct the way the phantom operated it wont be changed.
Kind of similar to how you fly the MiG-15 against the F-86. Keep it in the vertical, play chicken with his nose position and just energy trap until he falls away from you
Dogfighting a MiG or F-5 in an F-4 is like dogfighting a Hornet in an Eagle except the F-4 can 2 circle all its contemporaries :D
I don’t agree that it was a horrible dogfighter. In 1972, after learning how to actually fight with the phantom by using the Vertical and not turning horizontally, the Navy F-4s in particular did VERY well against the MiGs: primarily with aim-9s. I believe it was around a 13:1 ratio
BUT…your point is well taken. If you lose speed and find yourself trying to turn with a bad guy, you need to …..not do that…and get out. Good video!
You are all doing it wrong. First you open the cockpit, and start throwing things at your opponent…if that fails, you throw your RIO. It’s how you dogfight in an F-4…seriously.
475 knots, 7G. Use all your gas to eat that a$$ if you absolutely have no other choice (or are feeling spicy)
Stay fast, stay vertical, stay spiraling (Gurren Lagann style)
Keep the fug away from 4th gens unless they're super tied up and probably best to hit and run on them if you have to.
Do not be afraid to haul ass to make another pass (even if that pass doesn't come for half an hour because you went home, took a poo, and took back off again.)
Feeling low on SA? Walk away. (You probably are low on SA, be honest with yourself.)
Sound about right bawss?
Exactly.
@@Zachrix Sounds good. Now to go not listen to GCI, ignore the EWR pop ups, and pull stick to crotch like it owes me money.
ECW gaming. 😆
I was in a 2 circle with an F1, at 420kn, slats in, and seemed like the F1 was winning (until he ran out of fuel)
Can you slats out at that speed? Could it have helped a bit like on the F1?
@@hugoferrari6468 i’ve locked them in, because somebody said that the added AOA that slats give robs you of energy. not sure tho
@@alpenfoxvideo7255 ok I’ll keep that in mind thx
@@alpenfoxvideo7255 that's fortunately incorrect. The important thing here is Lift vs Drag (L/D ratio) not JUST the drag and the AoA where the slats are scheduled to pop out gives so much more lift that the increase in drag isn't enough to kill your sustained rate. It increases your sustained turn rate per real life data from several USAF manuals and MDD, NASA studies. If you keep them in, induced drag increases anyway, but this time, you have way less lift for the same increase in drag, thereby killing your 2 circle rate. Pull more AoA to get more lift and then the resulting flow separation increases your drag through the roof - this is what slats prevent.
A sea level turn at 475-510 kn at the AoA when the slats just deploy (~11/12 units on the gauge) with 4xAIM-9 and 2xAIM-7E, 50% fuel will earn you a 6.9-7.1G sustained turn - something neither the F1 or MiG-21 can do. The F-5 might be close in DCS. Clean, it's not even a contest - the F-4 will beat them all.
Do the same with the slats locked in and see what happens.
How quick is this F4 on Enigmas server? Clean. Faster than the Mirage at 30k and on the Deck? Faster than the Viggen? Faster than the Migs?
I need to know before purchasing.
Nothing beats the Viggen on the deck. The F4 with full missiles will be around 680 knots max on the deck, so things such as the viggen will have a higher top speed. It accelerates faster then the F1 and a bit slower then fishbed and viggen. Higher altitudes (10-30) you will be faster then anything when it comes to acceleration and overall top speed
@@Nemisisxdd That sounds great!
Full Missiles is eight Air to Air Missiles?
I’m a fan of the Viggen. It was my first Fast Jet that I learned. I just hope they don’t lock the F-4 behind a points wall on Enigma’s Server.
Cheers! :)
@@British_Dragon-4K-Simulations F4 is 8 missiles yes. 4 Fox 1 4 Fox 2. F4 is currently not behind a point wall on ECW. No problem mate, glad to be of help.
@Nemisisxdd nothing in the coldwar lineup beats the F1 at top speed on the deck, it will outrun and rundown anything that is in clean configuration even with 2 missiles on the wingtips, Viggen and F4 included. Trust me i've tested it in mission editor.
The Viggen’s really not all that in terms of acceleration either, just about everything Red has will out accelerate it from low speed without much effort in my experience.
I don’t have it personally but a handful of people in my discord claim they tend to sit in first stage burner more or less constantly to keep their speed respectable.
I’m having trouble with the sparrows, using the 5 mile cage and getting the lock but every time they come off the rail they fail to track.
You need to wait at least 4 seconds before you let the missile off the rail. If you're doing that and they're still going dumb I got no clue what else is happening ;-;
Chances are The aspect switch in the backseat is set to wide, If your shooting at someone down low over terrain the radar needs to be able to discriminate between the target and ground clutter it does this thru a set of speed gates based on closure rates between you and the target. Try it in forward or nose with a head on shot, Be aware you don't need to STT The target just place the pipper over what you're shooting at
careful boresight lock likes to lock ground side reflections, be sure that that is the real enemy by wiggling your tail and looking at the scope if the track follows the real aircraft
@@ColdWarGhost77 You can't tell Jester 2.0 AI to change the aspect search of the RADAR? I thought this was an updated Jester?
From what I've seen it looks oversimplified to the F-14's Jester menu. One of the things that is holding me back from purchasing the F-4.
I have Voice Attack commands for Jester in the F-14 for things like aspect, range and modes. A Voice Attack command to teleport myself into the back seat to change a switch seems silly.
I'm hoping they fix this if it is true.
In my very limited time in this, I tend to agree about not trying to turn the fight and just running. Tried several times to do the scissors, or cause overshoot but being such a brick it just cannot pull it off the same way the light jets can.
Rating is good but fuel as you mentioned, though I do worry more about 3rd parties - they always ruin long rate fights.
“3rd parties” is exactly why dogfights last seconds, not minutes, in real life.
Ironically all this would apply to the viggen as well, a dogfight between the two would be fast af, pretty sure the viggen is even faster
I know it used to be really fast.. but I'm pretty sure the published data says it shouldn't be.
they are soo gonna buff it haha
Nah, they better not
I want my realism
This isint warthunder, Heatblur prides themselves on realisim, so no, there wont be a buff maybe tweaks but if its not correct the way the phantom operated it wont be changed.