5/22/24 Cannon Fodder
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- It's another epic session of the Glass Cannon Podcast Campaign Two, and Troy and Joe have lots to discuss: dying characters, NPC actions in combat, and using environmental improv to increase the intensity of an encounter. In We Are Stupid, should GMs "yes and" or just say no when a PC's action is nearly impossible? In Listener Mail, feedback for Glass Cannon Live! and examining the GCN approach to Exploration Activities in PF2E.
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Cast: Troy Lavallee, Joe O'Brien
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Thank God for Joe. Troy can read as many books as he wants about Feng Shui or whatever but Joe is the peanut butter that holds the GCN together!
Joe can be frustrating til you get a feel for him, then you realize he's the heart of things. The best.
I think we all just want to hear Troy say that he knows that he forgets to give them and that he will make a conscious effort to remember. Currently acknowledging that he forgets but not agreeing he should try and make a better effort to remember is maddening.
What Troy SHOULD have said, "We were able to build this podcast and attract a fanbase by doing things our own way and carving out our own identity. I am also reading a lot of books about how to build a successful business and am trying to implement those strategies. I don't want to jeopardize that by having any knee-jerk reaction to feedback or criticism based on a limited number of episodes. Also, reading negative criticism online can be overwhelming and cause me to emotionally spiral, which is why we have great community managers to help with that. We love and appreciate the Naish!"
What Troy SOUNDED like, "I refuse to change anything. In fact, I will double down on anything I am criticized about. I ignore all feedback from people online. They think they can do it better, but they can't. I read a profound book and realize now that all those other people are just empty noise - their thoughts and opinions are meaningless dust."
I'd give you a bottle cap for this comment but I guess we don't do that here
@@flaviusaetius9162 hahahhahha
Perfect comment
@@flaviusaetius9162 the thumbs up will have to suffice
Troy said what Troy said. Full stop. I am continually amazed as how many adult as just not well adjeusted enough to accept other people are different and don't cater their lives for them.
Troy can be a stoic me-first kind of guy all he wants in his personal pursuits. What made me fall in love with GCP years ago was the feeling of sitting down with a gaming group that had a great time together. Listen to your players and adjust to how THEY want to have fun. The collective group is what’s different from those struggling stand-up days.
Ramius' failed healing attempts have cracked me up a lot through this campaign. The way Joe plays him is great in those moments!
Joe is such a good roleplayer.
He has a real instinct for when to go for it and when to hold back.
He leans into great bits but knows when to lean back before they outstay their welcome.
Something similar happened with one of my friends. They always failed their Medicine on the same character. Worst of all, it was on the Dhampir, who had negative healing!
I still dont get how he fails these healing rolls. with his feats and wisdom he needs to roll like a 3 for a crit success
@@luc1829 Not exactly. Early on, the DC requires around 7~8 for a success, and later you have the option to increase the DC for more healing. It's rarely trivial, although most GMs just handwave the healing when there's on time constraints or danger around.
@LightningRaven42 no I know all that. But he's an expert with risky surgery which is another +2. Either way he has to roll incredibly low to crit the 15 DC
I'm really impressed with Troy's ability to not read any comments, yet still know exactly what people are saying!
It is one thing for Troy to ignore the audience and these comments but he REALLY needs to listen to Joe and the other players.
Troy at the beginning of the year: I’m gonna be a lot more engaged with the community, I want to foster the community this year!
Troy five months into the year: nope too critical I don’t even read the comments any more
lol this from the “you can’t make any jokes anymore” guy
Exactly. What happened to that new years resolution posted on Reddit? Disappointed, but not surprised. Still a fan of the content, though. Maybe that's what matters to Troy then.
Lmao Troy’s refusal to take accountability for forgetting to award bottle caps is both admirably stubborn and also infuriating.
yep, he is just a dick.
absolutely. The party is doing and saying things that would have all earned them caps during campaign one, and they're getting shafted now that it's an actual rule. "You gotta earn them" "we do earn them, but you forget to give them out" "Yeah i forget to give them out. but you gotta earn them. Be more like my insane disruptive characters"
Making the conversation only about Bottle Caps is insanely reductive and genuinely damaging the community's ability to offer critique.
@@proffingers
Yes,
But Troy metaphorically saying "I don't read comments. I like the numbers, but as Marcus Arurelius said 'Don't listen to the plebs, they will all die anyway'", is not just about the Bottle Caps issue.
I overall really enjoy the GCP, but these last couple of months, Troy's stance on engagement feels really weird.
Obviously, very subjective
@@Thariorn well subjectively I agree with you
Glad to know I'm just a number. Remember the early days of GCP when they started an episode by thanking the listeners?
Yeah, that definitely came out wrong.
I typed an essay and deleted it. Joe jokingly summed up my feelings pretty well at the end, when he was talking about how we are noise to Troy now and he is hiding behind those mirrored glasses. Troy clearly doesn't like 2e, and that's fair, just wonder how long before he admits it. Bottlecaps, relevant but whatever. Secret checks and exploration mode basically never happening? You're just playing 1e with different names for stuff and the different action economy. I like it, but just be real about it. Your players might like to know the rules of the game you are playing. Glad we have Joe keeping it real with him.
I don't blame him. I had the same recoil going from 3.5 to 4E and pf1 to PF2. Perhaps he doesn't like how confining the system is compared to other systems or previous versions. Math is so tight that metacurrency is required, even when the core says it isn't. His players have to act a certain way within the wargame structure of PF2 or it doesn't work-and this is NOT a group of wargamers, maybe joe and possibly skid. Without massive metagaming PF2 is a lot harder to "win at" and that isn't possible for this style of podcast.
I am not too onboard with ignoring everyone, but I do understand how "when you try to please everyone, you please no one". I think troy is seeing how D100 and other skill based games lets you do a lot more with a lot less rules. The GM can call it like they see it, without 1,000 people dogpiling onto your mistake, or change of the rules-like the thrown chunks being one more than the book.
The curse and blessing of having an audience. And what once was fun is now a J O B and having to make sure they keep staff and not have it all implode has a lot is riding on it. And while the metadata says more subs, more views, interpreting that may not matter because there is no way to know if you had done it differently would those numbers be going up faster. This is investment strategy like hedge funds. Sure you lost 10% here, but you made 12% there, so you made 2% and thats all that matters. Meanwhile good investments would be you only lost 2% and gained 8 percent% Just because you have a net positive, doesn't mean you wouldn't succeed better with a different strategy.
Well, he spent a lot of time after converting SA to 2e talking about how he didn't feel like the system worked for them and how it wasn't a good system for a podcast etc. He eased off and seems to have gotten a feel for it now, but he's a stubborn guy and resistant to any ideas that aren't his own.
I feel I may have been harsh in retrospect, but sometimes he just comes off as not liking us lol. I got a bit heated typing my original comment.
Very on brand for Troy to say the only characters who make the "correct" choices in his eyes for entertainment are the characters he played, Luther and Cumstone. Joe trying to tell Troy how HE feels about the game and what bold choices are and Troy just outright telling him that he isn't as good as his characters.
Which is utterly ridiculous, Troy comes in with these gag bit characters that just screams, "I think the games my friends run aren't serious like mine". Cumstone, Rhapsody Kincaid, Colonel Luther. Joe's Handler work in Get in the Trunk is some of the greatest GMing I've seen across any system.And he reaches deep to give his player characters emotional depth; Matthew is just exceptionally competent at making them. No one else treats their friends' projects as a joke.
Rip brother Talitha 🙏
100% on Team Joe on this one.
I hope Troy takes Claritin when he's out there fighting all these Strawmen he's concocting!
You mean the entire comment section shitting on him? Doesn't seem like smoke and mirrors to me.
Troy, DiCaprio was the villian in Wolf of Wall Street. He was a horrible person, why you trying to identify with him?
It's sad that the first thought I had was the bit in The Office where Michael identifies as Meryl Streep from Devil Wear's Prada...but I don't think Troy can muster the level of self reflection Michael fucking Scott does when he realizes he was identifying as the bad guy and treating people like shit.
@@KyleMc16 yeah, I'm waiting for Troy to watch Million Dollar Baby so that he treats us right
Cause he was filthy rich and obscenely successful for a short blaze.
Hey Joe it seems you're the only one still engaging with the community as per Troy's "I don't go on the boards" comments. So can you please get the message to Troy to stop reading those books that tell him to treat us as "others" who are not worth considering? As a long time community member those words stung a lot and made me consider canceling my subscription. 💔
The "stop listening to the audience and do what the successful people do" strategy was one Rooster Teeth took and you can see how they ended up.
Unfortunately I’m afraid canceling subscriptions is the only thing he’ll notice and pay attention to.
Hey Krayne. Felt this in my plumbs. You’re right
I think his words are only partially the truth. It may have been worded better but i got what i think he is saying. What i got out of it is a good lesson. You cant please everyone. When you let go of the unreasonable expectations of others and their opinions, its liberating and allows for creativity. That said, you should still take a step back, look at the big picture once and a while and see if there are patterns based on others views and see if they are valid and if it merits change. If you dont, its an easy way to get lost in your personal bais and lose people. I think skimming does occur with the reason he said. I still believe (or at least want to) that he does seek patterns in the comments he skims. That said i know joe does read them and he does bring up a lot of the concerns based on his comments on the fod and other things and im okay with someone looking at those comments, letting him know and painting that pattern.
There are many people here who don't comment about their happiness with the way the game is run currently. Loud minority vs silent majority
@@Nercrontyr cthulu bless your common sense and reason.
Troy definitely has misunderstood what Marcus Aurelius was philosophising about. he took it into a much different direction and cowers behind this "fuck the haters"-mentality, acting as if all opinions & feedback is meaningless. that's not what Meditations is about.
Troy gave out a bottle cap for magic missile once and he's never forgiven himself
I know man, I’ve been listening to the first 50 eps of giantslayer over and over for a while and there are so many more caps and it makes for such a fun listen.
My Supercast membership re-ups in September. At this point, with this attitude and calling the fans “just noise”, I won’t be renewing. Let’s see what happens between now and September.
I always leave these vids with the impression Troy could spend an hour talking into a mirror about how right he is.
He is a narcissist for sure.
him reading about stoicism is going to make him completely insufferable
@@luc1829is he really reading the stoics? Reading comments first. Hopefully he doesn’t pick up Ayn Rand. Moment that happens it’s the end of the GCN 😂
@@ReadingAde yup. Marcus Aurelius
Yeah it seems like seinfeld is full redpilled amd it makes me worried for Troy@luc1829
Wasn't a huge fan of Troy saying he wants people to make bold choices like Cumstone and the Colonel, decisions made by those two characters repeatedly backfired and put other players characters in danger. It just sounds like an attempt at finding an out.
and on top of that, it also just isn't how every single character acts. imagine Buggles suddenly making choices the way Cumstone would.. horrible RP break imo.
"You want more caps? be more like me" that's what I heard
Troy's insistence of not even taking a second to consider removing the thing about bottlecaps that he hates so much is infuriating.
He allows both the push and the luck systems in Call of Cthulhu readily enough, and agrees that sometimes having an expendable resource to make important rolls not be directly up to the dice but something that can be influenced by player choice as a good narrative thing.
But because bottle caps save you from death let's just never have them in the game. Just make the simple change, no automatic saving from dying and they will be a point to feel good about rather than constant frustration from both sides
To be fair, they are in the game. He just forgets to hand them out half the time and his requirements for what warrants one seem pretty arbitrary.
To be honest, if it weren't or BotW, this fod might've been enough to make me bounce out of supporting the network. Troy's shit is really getting on my nerves. But I guess this is "engagement" so you're welcome?
I'm with you 100%. BotW is great and a great example of how the bottle cap economy should work. Let Jared run GCP and Troy can stick with CoC.
I don't think Troy could describe the rules for Searching for Traps in 2e. I just don't see any familiarity, let alone mastery. I see a lot of bluster and insecurity.
Troy once again showing that he thinks he is the sole auteur of the show, and not one of 6 improvisers at a the table
And the one system where he is humble enough to let the players drive the vast majority of the time (Time for Chaos) is some of the best content they've ever done.
I don't know why he doesn't seem to trust the GCP 2.0 cast like he does the TfC cast.
Hearing Troy say "We know how the system works" in an episode where he justifies shutting down Kate's attempt to trip is 100% the problem. Stop playing the game like its 1e.
If Kate is rolling against a reflex save that is the same as AC if she manages to hit a trip attempt she has now helped her second attack AND EVERY ALLY'S ATTACK AFTERWARDS. Now that its prone and off guard Asta and Talitha would be much more likely to hit their SECOND attacks and Buggles and Raimeus would be more likely to hit a spell attack. Thats potentially 6 MORE HITS than if she just attacks and everyone continues struggling to hit a single time. Further, her second follow up attack is now at an "effective MAP" of -2 instead of -4 due to off guard.
You guys fundamentally dont understand the system and the fact that Troy is so self assured that that isnt the case and causes the players to not work together is awful to listen to. It makes all the fucking complaining about things being hard and "unoptimized" ring so hollow and hard to listen to in the eps and these cannon fodders.
Very disheartening to hear Troy's stance on feedback, reducing it down to 'just noise' 😩
Started watching last year right as Campaign Two started, absolutely adore this channel and the amazing shows you all create together - but Gatewalkers has some genuine issues that Troy seems to be shrugging off. This isn't an investors call, we don't need to hear about metrics, data and engagement. If the quality of the work you do matters to you, focusing just on these numbers will blind you to the actual experiences people are having with your work.
I really hope Troy and Joe are checking in with the rest of the players to make sure they're having the most fun they could possible have. As long as Kate, Skid, Sydney, Matthew and Joey O' B are having a blast night after night, I'll keep watching - a lot of these eps though . . . the fun didn't seem to be there. The back-to-back deadly encounters seem to have been filled with frustration more than anything else.
Joe taking the failed medicine rolls early on in the game and applying them as a part of Ramius' character is such a good idea. It's a way to fail forward. I think Kate should take inspiration from that with her rolls as well.
In fact, in Giant Slayer I remember when Joe introduced Dalgreath Deathbringer, he originally was playing him as this epic hero known around the land (because 14th, or so, level characters are super rare) and he kept failing at literally everything! But it morphed Dalgreath into a character who is strong, but is he kinda a fraud compared to the stories about him? And it made him a far more interesting character, and so many great jokes and banter between characters came from it. All because Joe rolled with the bad dice luck and chose to fail forward.
Really? Thats awesome, kudo to Joe.
Its very frustrating to see that all of the naish's feedback has been ignored by Troy, who only sees "big numbers go brrr," and believes contreversy is a good thing. I used to be a huge fan of critical role, but at some point, they completely stopped interacting with the community and focused on running a business, and their content really suffered for it. Over a couple of years, i went from consuming every bit of CR content to watching none of it. I can only hope the GCN doesn't go the same route.
Here is my hot take: everyone loves BotW because the players are having fun, and hero points let them feel like... well... heroes. Caps are most often used on important story-related rolls, like crafting checks for a map or a diplomacy check to help a refugee. This gives the players another chance to succeed but doesn't guarantee success. Of course, they also have a much better AP, but theres not much that can be done about that.
Whoever is feeding Troy our comments, please tell him we are not being bitchy entitled viewers, we are simply offering our opinions
I feel bad for McD. He’s probably relaying our thoughts to him
So Troy "loves the engagement" but doesn't actually bother bother looking at any of it. Says a lot about who he is as a person and a GM and I honestly don't understand how the cast members of the show put up with him, especially lately.
This last episode was a complicated one for me. At times it felt like the players were not having fun and that did not sit well with me. However, I was nervously shoveling popcorn the entire time.
right? they went from full health to nearly dead on one hit or get crit and goes to dying 2 just like that.
I feel the main takeaway is that whoever keeps reading the overflow of Reddit stupidity and feeding it to Troy as representative of what a lot of people think needs to stop.
To me, the general sentiment of the community seems to be positive, encouraging, and constructive, not this fringe and largely imagined outrage.
Troy. Nobody is asking you to give them out for free. We're asking you to give them out for things that deserve them, which you currently only do about 25٪ of the time, in my estimation. 😂
The first episode of Gatewalkers was my first exposure to GCP so im a very new listener. My 5e group was transitioning to pf2e and i wanted to learn more about the game. Ive mostly enjoyed the podcast so far, but it has been entirely despite Troy at nearly every step. Hearing he's reading these navelgazing books does not give me great hope.
You know, I have gotten very upset with Joe in the past for backseat GMing. But I take it all back. Thanks for being the voice of reason, Joe!
When the Sonic the Hedgehog (2020) film trailer released, fans raised a loud outcry over the terrible design of the main character. The filmmakers heard the feedback and made a pivot, and everyone was happy.
Troy - we all love you and the podcast. You don't have to have thin skin and hide behind those sunglasses.
Troy thinks a lot of himself huh?
You’re just noticing this? lol
The way this cast and crew have handled character death and let it happen without losing the sense of importance has been inspiring to me as a GM, bottlecap discussion aside.
As to the bottlecaps it seems to me that the adventures are designed with a more flowing economy in mind. But hey, is the table having fun? To me that is what matters. I enjoy watching the players and the GM have fun first and foremost.
Agreed, everyone having fun is the ultimate point of a game.
Honestly, the caps are a bit of a red herring. They are contributing to the problems of the party, but are a pretty small part. Talitha having a cap last episode probably only delays things and maybe puts more people at risk.
There's been a lot contributing to the party between less than ideal party makeup, lack of tactics, a long string of PL +2 monsters, really bad dice luck and yes, to an extent, the lack of caps. This last encounter brought it all to head and then amplified it by being pretty poorly designed. A lot of groups have lost PCs on this encounter, even with hero points, good tactics, etc.
Each character at my table has a color-coded dice for their character that I use for secret checks (this way if there are ever cases when I need to roll a check for multiple characters, I can roll them all simultaneously and check the highest rolls for successes.) When the group is doing exploration activities, I have given spots at the base of my GM screen to determine what everyone is doing, and I place each character’s dice next to their exploration activity. After only a couple of sessions, characters have developed go-to activities and it really helps speed up exploration when every character knows their “role.” It also helps when players don’t have to ask for a billion perception checks that don’t matter
A big part of why this party keeps missing their attacks is that they dont do ANY buffs on allies or debuffs on the monsters. They dont have enough durable PCs to consistantly do flanking but, they also dont do trip, grapple, demoralize, or anything else to bring these PL+2 monster's AC down to a reasonable number.
And Troy is so sure they know the system he actively tells players to not do those things. Infuriating to listen to when all the players are complaining about things being unbalanced and not fun.
My biggest issue with Random_Snail_071 is that, in terms of story beats, it's a random encounter... it has nothing to do (AFAIK) with the overall plotline, it's just a beast in the woods... but it was WAY tougher than Keneepo the Slim. "The Slim" had NOTHING on Random_Snail_071.
I treat exploration activities like I do with encounters.
"You're entering encounter mode, roll for initiative."
"You're entering exploration mode, choose an exploration activity."
Woah professional gm alert 🚨‼️
I love Brother Ramius, and I'm glad that Joe does too, now!
Just know that I love watching you for all these years because it’s awesome seeing people having fun together. This gave me food for thought…
Love you, Troy ❤ It cannot be easy to have the weight of all these expectations on your shoulders. Thank you guys for putting so much into entertaining us.
Hey Joe one thing if you want to do exploration activities there is a feature and or module that lets you put a marker on the token designating what exploration activity they are taking.
I'm so pissed that I can't make it to the St. Paul show for the second time in a row. UGH!!!
The snail is a Creature 4 encounter that the PC's should have retreated from. Plus, the party doesn't use tactics, buffs, or debuffs. In PF2e, +/- 1 is a gamechanger.
I don't think Troy is saying he doesn't care what the listeners think. He doesn't want to fall into the trap that a vocal percent can sway the game.
I enjoy watching how they play Pathfinder. The more I get into the game, the more I understand how having a well-rounded party is essential. I don't feel like the players are doing that. Aside from Brother Ramius, everybody is attack, attack, attack. They need to debuff the enemy or buff their friends. Otherwise, there will be more character deaths in the near future.
I love Glass Cannon because it is people actually playing the game. Troy is the GM. He runs it how he sees fit. He doesn't need to make it softer so characters don't die. That is what makes his games so interesting. Play your games how you see fit, and watch this to see how someone else runs theirs.
Agree. I think some of the reactions are a little overboard. I think he relies on what the crew passes on to him for feedback but doesn't necessarily scour all the comments himself, especially since those who dislike something tend to be a lot more vocal than those who like it. He's not entirely wrong to look at actual numbers of views and subs as a measuring stick for how well the business is doing.
This was only a small talking point in this one, but we've just reached a point in our Apocalypse Keys game where we've all really found our characters, and it's such a wonderful moment in every game you play for a decent length of time, where you don't have to think really hard about "what would this character do here", "what would they say to the other character here" as much and it just all starts to feel natural. Love that Joe is there with Ramius now.
troy seems to get the cause and effect of bottle caps wrong. they're supposed to make the characters heroic, not the other way around
The fact Matthew didn't get a cap for saving Zephyr's life is just a total indictment of "be a hero to get caps".
As Joe said, Troy just forgets about them and uses "be a hero" as a cover up so he doesn't have to face any potential self improvement.
I've run Gatewalkers twice. Levels 1 and 2 are absolutely brutal. It gets much easier after level 3.
I guarantee no more character deaths if you follow this one simple rule: Action Kate needs to do a throw away roll (demoralize, recall knowledge) before doing flurry of blows.
Troy's insights into how potent the snail could have been harks back to Joe's musing last week about potential balance issues with the campaign.
This AP is pretty notorious for player deaths, especially in the first book. However, I do think that some of the decisions made all around, coupled with very poor rolls, have made it even more deadly.
The monster had a very critical rule that was missed that resulted in multiple characters getting knocked down and the lack of Bottle Caps/Hero Points really makes any Pf2e module more deadly and dangerous.
This particular encounter is also pretty notorious for being poorly designed. The terrain plays a huge roll in the difficulty, but the author doesn't seem to account for it. Add in the myriad other issues facing the group and it was a disaster waiting to happen.
I run Pathfinder Society over in San Francisco. I often just ask players what their default Exploration activity is for the next 4 hours of play, and ask that they update me whenever they feel it makes sense to change their activity, whether it be for narrative or mechanical reasons. I don't think it's that much over-head, but I facilitate it by having players write it on their name tents, that way if I ever need to roll a secret check for traps or something, I just check "Hmm, who has 'Searching' as their exploration activity?" This also makes it really easy to bluff, as Joe was bringing up, because I just need to roll secret checks for no reason whatsoever that amount to the same # of people who are 'Searching.'
I also love that Joe has brought up Burning Wheel a few times. Do you guys have Burning Wheel play? Would love to watch!
Troy, you're wrong about this. Bottlecaps make the game better. Just listen to literally EVERY episode of Blood of the Wild
Bottlecaps are a way of giving the "rule of cool" a mechanic. You do something exceptionally cool in character? Bottlecap. Was it stupid? Maybe. Was it effing rad, and spoke to your character? Yes, awesome bottlecap. Death is so prevalent in 2e, might as well throw the occasional bone to the player group to mitigate the harshness.
I love that Nick takes such great notes, because he has built in natural call backs to great moments in the show. Casino you got this cap for scorching ray kill on Breakbones, etc... The removal bottlecaps creates separation from the crowd that has supported you, it is not a good move.
Other than the other feedback from others, I gotta say that I appreciate the candidness of this fod, and I have been enjoying GCP live, and 2.0 a lot lately. Hoping for more dramatic episodes like we've seen lately.
$200 for 1 hour of combat in these gauntlets for GenCon is steep. If these are successful, id love to see this more accessible to the majority of the naish with a cheaper price.
They've said they're intentionally pricey. As the price to set up the booth is also pricey and they'll likely barely cover that with the gauntlet
If they’re successful, they can charge a higher price next time since there’s known demand.
I think campaign to might be my favorite set of cast members but the least enjoyable story across all glass Cannon things I've watched. For me the best part of each ep is the pre-show banter
Well time for my 2¢. Even if this for entertainment, it is their game, they can choose what rules to use. What rules to tweak. I don't think Troy is saying he is right you are wrong. Even if he is saying it. Also the rules are written as a frame work so you can play the game. DMs modify and change or don't even use rules. I find that people that backseat DM are rude. Criticism of not using the rule or what is fine, but it can lead to backseat DMing. Enjoy the ride that this cast is taking you on. Only my humble opinion. Have a great day and game on.
My group always tells what the exploration activity is if it is an unknown location or if they know they are in danger. In familiar spaces, it is narrative.
I like the grittier game with sparse bottle caps. Occasional player death is actually good for a campaign, in my opinion. Once the party gains a few more levels, they'll have an easier time naturally without any change to bottle caps.
I'm a long time fan from the OG first Giantslayer campaign and by the end of that campaign I no longer gave a shit about the storyline because there had been so much character turnover that I just didn't have the same investment. The jokes are cool and I like the players but the more characters get mulched the more diluted the investment in the actual story is gonna be. Talk about "lack of tension" the bottlecaps cause sure but what really sucks the tension out of an encounter is when the listener doesn't care about the stakes anymore.
Godspeed. Have fun.
“It’s never been better,” it tells it all! Do not lose your cap; bottle or not…
God I hope Troy clarifies this, it sounds so out of touch and arrogant. I don't even care about the rule, it's their game, but to say "My community's feedback doesn't matter I do what I want." Is a massive L.
Sure, Ridley Scott probably didn't listen to much criticism about his work ... but neither did Lucas, and now we have The Phantom Menace. :)
It's not like Ridley Scott's output is consistently good either
in fact, "not consistently good" is being pretty generous
Loved this EP
Stay the course.
Yeah, Troy, you don't give them out when cool shit happens. Classic, the DM is the competition mentality. lol
I don't get why people are getting so worked up about the hero point/bottle cap rules. It's your game, play it with whatever rules/house rules you want. As long as you're having fun and it's entertaining to watch, which I certainly think it is, myself and many many others will come back for more.
Exactly, it really doesn’t matter lol, everything is bound to randomly generated numbers
Regarding Exploration Activities: I allow my players to just announce what they're doing. They know the activities and if they don't announce what they're doing, then they've underprepared. If I feel they've forgotten about the mechanics, I'll throw in a "Okay, what's everyone doing?" every so often.
How I approach exploration activities is that the players have given me a standard list of what they are normally doing during exploration. This works since they mainly want to focus on one specific thing when in an area.
This leads to less of me having to wait to see if they do something like searching, since we all are assuming they are doing such activities anyhow.
If something comes up in the narrative where they would like to do something more specific, for example investigate a crime scene where everyone want to search; or look around an especially sketchy alley. They simply tell me (like how you are doing it) and it flows quite well in the narrative.
I personally experienced this often opens up for more roleplay due to the players don't feel like they have to ask for a roll at the exact right time to do something. It more often than not makes sense that their hardened adventurers would be: on the lookout, or casting a protective spell etc. whilst it can be easy easy for a player to forget to ask when immersed in conversations or similar.
I felt that the liveshow posted yesterday suffered a bit from the crew riding high on the reaction from the smut last time and tried to go back to that well a little to often. there is a deminishing return on smut. I enjoy a bit of innuendo every now and again. There is a saying that i will mangle in translation "eternal sunshine creates a desert"
As for exploration activities we have everyone declare a standard one and if they want to do something else they declare it or its assumed its their default same as party marching order basicly
Likely because the shows were back-to-back on the same weekend
Yeah honestly I thought the bubbles bit was funny the first couple of times he did it. Then it was just annoying hearing the same joke over and over again.
“Ashes to ashes” - Marcus Aurelius & David Bowie
Honestly when it comes to exploration activities, I tend to run them like you guys do. Not stress too much on if people are Searching, Defending, etc and just freefrom doing things when people ask for them, just always keeping in mind feats people have for automatic stuff like that one rogue feat that allows you to always be looking for traps, I don’t wait for that player to tell me he’s looking for traps before doing the roll
If you've never seen a man move an entire goal post, Troy does it all by himself starting @19:40.
Troy: "Make bold choices to get bottle caps..."
Joe: "Here's a perfect example."
Troy: "Not like that."
I'm of course just piling on. Love you guys. Gatewalkers gets better with every episode.
Is it crazy to say I would be content with a GCP TPK?
I think there have been a few tough weeks of episodes, but I agree with Troy about bottle caps. They can often make things death and dying cheap. That being said I do think PF2e is a much more brutal system in general. If your characters are not max level (aka missed an encounter and are lvl 2 & not lvl 3 for an encounter), missed loot or weapon runes, or aren’t balanced in regards party make up, this system can be brutal. This amplifies at lower levels when the PCs have such few hit points and less options.
I’m really looking forward to the next crop of episodes to see how everyone adjusts to the system. The crew have been playing 2e for a while but this is their first deep dive at a serious campaign in my mind.
Love the discourse as always. Troy and Joe are the foils for each other. Keep it up y’all.
I'm really curious to see what character Matthew brings to replace Talitha.
You've talked some about suboptimal play, and there are plenty of comments about the lack of buffing/debuffing happening, but another big thing is team comp in a game that is more about optimizing teamwork than individual characters. Way back in session 0 as the characters were revealed, I kept waiting for the front-liners.
Lucky was built for damage. Then when Kate revealed she was playing Monk I thought, "Okay, here's the defender/debuffer with high AC and Athletics maneuvers" until she said, "Monastic Archer".
Then when Lucky died, she was replaced by Magus, a high damage, high risk-reward class.
I wonder how things would have gone up to this point if the team had started off with Lucky as a reach weapon or sword and board fighter, and Zephyr as a shield-wielding grab/trip monk.
I can not wait for Get in the Trunk S6
1:01:20
I think the much more salient point about "bluffing your players" is that it encourages them to inhabit thier characters instead of just piloting them.
One of my biggest gripes when at my own table or watching actual plays is when the player acts on meta information, pre buffing because you're on a map, is acting on meta info.
P.s. regarding exploration activities, i think its a shame to eschew them, in my experience they add a lot to the game.
We need second-chance theater on this snail! 🐌
For the GMing veterans among the commenters, would it be accurate to call Pathfinder 2e a fairly tactics-heavy game? (I'm extremely new to the system - more used to fuzzier, narrative roleplaying in general.) I'm making my way through rulebooks and it seems like many more non-standard attack actions are required (e.g., athletics-based trips/grapples; saving-throw spells; flanking) to make combat successful. Am I missing something, or is this one of the main reasons why the last few single-target combats have gotten so out of hand?
If I'm on the right track with this, I would LOVE to see the party do some tactical training (in story or as a standalone episode) to get them using the system more assertively!
Getting as many buffs and debuffs is very helpful, yes, but not necessarily required. It rewards doing things other than the most basic attack every turn.
Thanks for clarifying,@@DireWolf271. At the risk of backseat GM'ing, it seems like many of the martial characters just keep on attacking through their MAP rather than setting up others in the group. Much appreciated!
@@benjaminseltzer5801 yeah, attacking 3 times is just bad. Even on a nat 20 on your third strike, it’s probably just a normal hit, not even a crit. Aiding or demoralizing or whatever so someone else can crit is much better.
Talking about loving jungle settings, you guys *have* to play Book 1 of Serpent's Skull. It's so freaking fun. I don't care if it has to be converted to 2E, put in a higher patreon tier, part of a live show or Side Quest Side Sesh, you guys gotta check it out, it's a blast.
I think this is a great experience for everyone to see if a hero point per session/hour actually *is* necessary to the game.
The question of exploration activities: I just finished running Abomination Vaults and the players had their PCs doing a standard exploration activity throughout the dungeon, with some instances where they changed what activity they were doing. Your discussion about it mainly focused on perception checks, but please be aware that there are other activities that give mechanical effects - scouting giving +1 bonuses to initiative rolls, shield being raised at the start of combat, spell being up at the start of combat, etc. Not everything is about perception. Hell, there's an investigate exploration activity for people focused on discovering clues.
Our next campaign I'll be using Foundry's Party function, where the players can enter their activity and adjust as they desire. I'll be going over the exploration options session 1 and adding them to the activities to their sheets so they'll be aware of their options. It's Season of Ghosts which isn't a dungeon crawl, but there are huge portions of the campaign that are exploration, so the party's choices matter.
Not everything is about perception checks.
Season of Ghosts is so good! Best written 2e adventure, imo. I would definitely inform your players that SoG follows the traditional east asian 4 act storytelling, otherwise book 1 (act 1) might disappoint them.
Roger Cumstone FOD?
Dear god is that intro tone deaf, someone whisper in Troys ear that he is mortal and that he makes a podcast about a game. I love the GCN and have been a subscriber since the beginning of Giantslayer, but you aren't painting the Mona Lisa, stay humble.
I've played and GMed every iteration of the game since AD&D over the last 25 years (except GMing 2e). D&D 5e and Pathfinder 2e are soft systems (they are essentially the same game), where everyone can do everything, the rules are light, and the mechanics are built to be incredibly forgiving. Where 3.5 and 1e are chess, 5e and 2e are checkers. There is nothing wrong with checkers, or wanting a game with little adversity, lower difficulty, lower stakes, where players can be overly precious with their characters, and where the players never die and are so strong that nothing can stand in their way. That's the game that a lot at the Campaign 2 table want to play, I think that's what a lot of 2e and 5e players want to play and listen to. It looks like that is not the game Troy wants to play. It really seems Troy wants to run the gritty, brutal, and difficult 1e campaign that he did in Giantslayer. Troy, just go back to 1e and let someone else run the softer less gritty games if they do not interest you. It is a real half measure to try to capture the newer younger generation of players as an audience by switching to 2e, and then not running a game they are going to like. Unsolicited advice: 1) Let Joe run the 2nd campaign, he likes to backseat DM anyways, and 2) let Troy run a hardcore 1e adventure path like giantslayer with some seasoned players who can handle defeat and enjoy a challenge.
On the topic of exploration activities: I think if a player doesn't specify an exploration activity, they don't gain the benefits of one. So it's up the player to be proactive and pipe up about whether they're sustaining a cantrip or keeping a shield raised or Investigating or Scouting or what-have-you. The GM has enough to worry about without constantly asking the players how they're operating in between encounters.
I suspect next week's fod is going to be Troy with some explaining to do... 😬
I have most commonly been at "tables" that declare exploration activities in session 0 or every so many sessions there is a check in to make sure that everyone is still ok with their default exploration activity
For me, the white rabbit I chase as a GM is the deaths that happen because players know they messed up, the dice were not in their favor, or my favorite, every one is at the end of choices and they know the villians one hit away and players start failing death saves.
The combat is super satisfying to watch. I think the problem is the players, honestly. I say problem
... not problem. They don't want to die. Good.
So... question(s) for those fans here that are currently running Pathfinder 2e campaigns (I admit - I'm not - my group is running through The Enemy Within, a Warhammer 4e campaign). How often do you have character deaths in your campaign? Do you / Would you fudge a roll to keep characters alive who's stories are important to the overall narrative of the game (you don't have to answer that one if you don't want to)?
I watch GCN for the entertainment value. I learn a lot about running and being in a game, in the sense of the social interaction and pact in place. But as to the rules? I learn some stuff, but you do you GCN. Its your table, not mine, and I am privilaged to even get to watch this at all.
Further. Troy said what Troy said. Full stop. I am continually amazed as how many adult as just not well adjusted enough to accept other people are different and don't cater their lives for them.
For Exploration going into combat, most of my players have set up an SOP of Exploration actions. Once initiatives are being rolled, ask about using a different skill to roll with, and I make a judgment call.
For perception checks, I'm not familiar with Foundry, but I do love some macros. One of my players set up for me for doing secret rolls to the gm for both group and individual skills.
One macro, I can click the token for the player, and then the macro will roll perception all saves and skills that I asked him to put into it, like stealth, thievery, perception and lores etc. I also use a perception DC of 10+ perception score a lot. For stealth in combat or secrete doors, of course, they are situational. Like stealth only works if the creatures are distracted (not the condition or skill use). Typically if the creatures don't have a reason to be using an action to roll.
I love this network but im on Joe's side with hero points. You have to keep them flowing to some degree that isn't wishy washy. It helps the narrative. It creates epic moments. And it can save lives or make failure hit even harder if it doesn't help. The campaign im in has way too lenient a rule for hero points but it allows the pc to circumvent consequences or make badass moments. I think Troy's perspective is that the points hamper the story or break mechanics in a way that ruins the flow. It simply doesn't. If the worry comes from a need to stick so closely to the rules that it lessens the fun for the players or the audience, and we're telling them, it does a little, it's not 'ruining the art'. I think I gotta speak for at least some people when I say that if Troy think's we're all here for by-the-book, perfect gameplay, i think he's wrong. There has to be an avenue for leeway. WHEN IT MAKES SENSE though. That's what creates the bits and bobs in story that change the outcome, party to party, in an adventure that is prewritten, other than the choices pc's make.
Joe’s comment about Zephyr constantly missing attacks due to MAP would hold a bit more merit if she wasn’t using Flurry of B(l)ows. I agree that subsequent attacks have no real chance of hitting AC 21.
Flurry of Blows does not bypass MAP on the second attack. It just compresses 2 Strike actions into 1 Flurry of Blows action, while also combining damage in the flurry if both attacks hit for weakness/resistance calculations.
Am I the only one who's fine with the show as is?
Like sure.. Troy COULD compromise a little. But he doesn't have to.
As long as he's sticking to his guns due to a clear vision for what he wants the show to be - and not out of pure stubbornness - then everyone needs to chill.
He's said it so many times before: "I know what I'm doing".
P.S. As someone who ALSO runs a business AND exclusively reads business strategy & self-help books... I'm dying to know the 20(!) books Troy has read this year.
Listening to this fod has me so excited for the upcoming episodes!
The Joey O' Intro! Yo! Whatssssssup!?
Troy being a prick has stopped me from watching cannon fodder.
Check back in in three weeks.
I’m just tired of him thinking death is the only way to make something interesting.
Other people might also be correct, you narcissist.
Ps. I love you.