The Correct Use of a Softbox for Portraiture
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2018
- What's the correct distance between softbox and subject? I got a question about the Godox and Lastolite softboxes. Let's see if we can get to an answer.
Video Referenced by Patrick: • Godox softbox 24x24 in...
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The distance of the softbox to the subject should be equal to the distance across the diagonal face of the softbox.
That is an excellent tip. Easy to remember and mathematically sound. I've been attempting to manipulate the inverse square law so much I never thought of a good base for optimal distance. Thanks for providing it.
Thanks, Chuck.
I agree ! This is a very useful tip !
Thanks a lot, Ed. Informative as usual. Distance of the soft box to the subject and the room size limitation is something I was often struggling with. Finally, I find it simpler just putting the soft box, regardless of the size, close to the subject without it getting into the frame. I adjust the aperture and/or shutter speed if needed. That has been working well for me and it makes things easier. I often use two speed lights in cross pattern and a white reflector. The speed light settings, their positions and angles are mainly from the tips you shared in your past vids. So thank you again for the great illustrations you drew, the behind scenes live shoot sessions and all the other valuable and practical information you kindly shared. Really appreciate.
For sure. I'm glad that it's helpful!
It may have been mentioned previously, but if not, this: When using a speed light in a softbox, it is very important to use the diffuser panel (or equivalent) to fill the front diffuser evenly with light. If not done, you can get a strong hot spot on the face of the softbox, with resulting funky shadows being quite harsh near the subject and progressively softening further out. I discovered this the hard way in a studio shoot! I prefer to use my AD200 with bare bulb so I get a much more even light across the front of the softbox, and more even shadows behind the subject (if they show in the photo).
Agreed!
Thanks for the tip.
Goog video Ed.
What I use to do in the past is put an object on a table like a vase or a ball and take test shots with my flash under different angles, and distances, different power outputs, different diffuser like a cap, small soft box and when use a speed light different output angles (you can set in the speed light) and see what's happening . Nice job for a rainy day ;-) So you get acquainted with your gear .
I found that much more explanatory than reading about it and the outcome surprised me something cause you think this or that will happen and the result was quite different hehe
Exactly right! I’ve done the same thing. Eventually it started to click. It took awhile for me to wrap my head around some things, but with enough experiments it falls into place.
Thanks Ed, great video. No nonsense and concise. That helps a lot.
I'm wondering if one can get a nice soft light from a Godox 860iii in a softbox.
Some are saying that the light is still going to be harsh.
Thanks again for the videos
Thanks Ed. I had the same problems which has now been solved by you.
Ed thank you for explaining in detail , much appropriated
Really helpful. I specialize on family portraits on the beach at sunset. With a group of 4 to 12 people, you would need a huge soft box, which would be impractical, especially on a windy day. What would you recommend to light a large group at sunset? Thanks
Speedlights by design are highly directional, throwing all their light forward. So a problem that can arise using softboxes is that you get a 'hot spot' on the front of the softbox, effectively giving you a smaller light source than what you might expect and consequently harsher light. An internal baffle helps. So does using one of those clip-on plastic ('Sto-fen') diffusers, and also setting the 'zoom' (if the speedlight has it) to a wider setting. To check for hot spots, just take a (not over-exposed) shot of the softbox straight-on.
[Not saying that's the problem referred to in Ed's vid]
Good points. Thanks, Phil!
That’s what I was wondering, was there a hot spot. I’ve watched a lot of these soft box videos and I never hear anyone mention the settings of their speed light. Particularly the ‘zoom’ setting. I’m just learning here but my thoughts are unless full power is needed one should set to widest settings and add additional internal diffusers. Yeah?? Am I on the right track?
Also, another question for the pros, does the texture of those baffles matter? He indicated he doesn’t disassemble and the white diffusers are wrinkled. Would this have any effect or not matter at all? Thanks for the videos Ed!!! And to this commenter!!
Thank u so much for the information the video helped me to reduce the pressure as a new indoor photographer
I watched the video you were referencing and was surprised to fined his results were generally very good, with only a couple of photos where it looked too bright. There is also the fact you can reduce your flash brightness if it’s too bright.
Super Video Ed. Thanks for sharing this information!
Thanks for clarifying this since I have a 30x30 Godox box coming in soon and please continue doing this for all of us.
I would also like to know what would your go to lens for Wedding photography? or better said top 3 pick!
Hey Ed, I know this is an older video but it is a slow and rainy Saturday night so I'm just sitting here watching vids(many of yours).
I would like to point out that shiny skin(specularity) is mostly attributable to the finish of the modifier(bare bulb vs silver vs white) and skin color/complexion. Size relative to subject primarily only effects hardness of shadows.
If one were to use a strobe in a 'magnum' reflector two feet from a subject, the skin would be specular and shadow borders would be hard(well defined). Add diffusion to that same reflector, at the same distance, and the shadows would be almost identical(though slightly different since you would be diffusing the hotspot as well) but specularity would decrease. Increasing the size of the modifier at that distance(soft box/octa/umbrella) allows the light to wrap around the subject, softening shadows. However, if that larger modifier is a silver bounce umbrella(vs a white shoot-through or even a white bounce umbrella of the same size) specularity would remain.
When shooting headshots, I often use a beauty dish positioned just above the camera and a white reflector below for female clients(middle aged realtors LOVE when you shave a few years off without retouching). Silver lined beauty dishes always produced specularity(as do silver reflectors), white produces less and slipping on the diffusion sock almost completely eliminates it. That is with light sources of the exact same size/distance.
The only general exceptions to the white dish with a sock eliminating specularity are those where the subject has oily skin or a dark complexion, often with African Americans. Then it is a matter of adjusting light position and camera/subject angle(angle of incidence=angle of reflection) or using powder.
In the video you posted, and in regard to Patricks experiences, I would lean towards the models complexion, makeup(possibly skin lotion) or skin tone rather than the distance of the box. Now there is also the possibility that the silver lining of a Godox softbox can be a contributing factor, though with a speedlight very little of the light is reflecting off of the silver vs a bare bulb, compared to your Lastolite model. Silver doesn't always equal silver.
Your analysis of the specularity issue is something others should take note of. Thanks so much for this, Jimmy.
Omgosh! Great tip!!!! Thank you so much.
Cool channel and vibe. Nice site and work. Glad I stumbled on ya. Subbed.
You rock, Carl. Thank you.
Thank you sir. Close lighting is usually best and soft light. I have seen photographers on RUclips placing lighting far away from the subject. Not good lighting
Thanks I like your simple way of teaching. Good rule of thumb on the diagonal of a soft box is how close you should me to your subject thanks
Ed, what size softbox would you recommend for portrait type work from the waist or chest up; (for the best light possible)?
I'm currently using a 32" shoot through umbrella, but am looking in to a softbox as part of my lighting arsenal.
What size for a full body shot? One to have on location inside and outdoors.
Great video!
Ideally, the softbox should be larger than the area you're trying to cover, at the distance you're using it. Relative size is the key. Of course, that's depending on what look you're trying to get. Light doesn't always have to be super soft. Also, you can combine lights to make a larger light if you need more coverage. I mostly use 40+" umbrellas, indoors. but love the look of a good softbox, too.
I found this very helpful. I'm doing acoustic guitar videos and so I'll need to be back a couple more feet than yourself in the video unless of course I use fisheye mode to create the illusion that I am further away. You know, like where the camera can see more of the room and sets the subject back!! I wondered if the soft light effect works as efficiently under such circumstances .I'll be using a lantern in my case. If using fisheye mode, I plan to crop the video and zoom myself using an app, though I wonder if the lens would pick up the soft box effect well enough, if the lens sets me further away than in reality. Even if you aren't sure on that one, should it be level with my face? slightly above level? I have dark under eye circles and need tips on lighting tricks for that more than anything else. I heard something about a reflector going underneath and experimenting with lights around knee level or lower in experimental places If you can answer to any of this, or have a link, thank your very much!
hey Ed i'm an wedding photographer from India where we have lots of lots of people around the bride and the groom , how far should i place my soft boxes or umbrellas away from the subject to get a perfect shot without any other people in the frame
Always my concern. I have watched many videos on portrait photography but none of them talk about the distance between the subject and softbox. I have seen some professionals that use bigger soft box with more professional lighting setup keep it around 5 to 6 ft. Even with umbrella setup and a speedlight, I saw some people keeping it at some distance.
But with softbox, as you mentioned it should be as close as possible. Why do we have different setup for an umbrella and a softbox?
Could that last olive be used with different rings, I use Westcott and pau c buff .The last olive is on the list of buy it modifiers ?I know cheetah and adorable flash point have adapter rings , or is that lastolite be its own 5hing strictly a speedlite modifier
I think contrast and specularity are different things. Contrast being the lighting ratio between closer and farther parts of any subject from the light. Contrast is inversely proportional to light distance, specularity being directly proportional. As distance of light is increased contrast decreases but since the relative size of light source decreases the specularity increases..
As distance from light to subject (let's say a ball or a person's head) increases, the relative size of that light decreases. Harder light to shadow transitions emerge. Higher contrast. See this explanation: ruclips.net/video/EJWNQv01VtI/видео.html
Yup, the same thing was happening to me. I have dark skin so the shin on my forehead is real. Thanks for making this video. I'm going to buy a 47" softbox and make my life easier.
Now I am just a beginner with flash and modifiers, however I am thinking that 24" 'softbox' is versatile when shooting outdoor.... Use up close for softer look.... then back away increase power for a little more contrast...
That’s correct.
Thank you Ed.. I love your channel, like listening to you and really value all you have shared with us.. @@edverosky
Hi Ed, I always learn something from Your Video's. Question, If you are taking images of a Couple, How far do would you place a 34" Softbox? Actually it is the Godox EZ Glow marketed as a Softbox i.e. Beauty dish, silver coating Beauty dish, with an inner diffuser, then the outer along with the as an add on. I am running it with a Godox 600 watt light, Which I rarely have used above 1/32 power in May little room. (I am thinking maybe I should put My AD-200 with Bulb in this Softbox/Beauty Dish as the 600 watt is over kill?) Excuse my lengthy rabbling Question. And as always Thank You for You for all of the Awesome Video's You have produced. I have long time friends that married around the time Sandy & I did 60 plus years ago. I hope to capture some images for their upcoming Anniversary. Yep a few of us old farts still ticking along. LOL
Great video. How about speedlight in that softbox vs studio strobe where speedlight shoots out a little more forward I’m guessing than the round flash tube of a studio light? I haven’t done the comparison but curious your input...
I’d definitely use a speed light with that. Things like internal diffuser use and flash zoom settings can affect contrast and spread of light across the front panel.
Great presentation.
Great explanation, thank you
Thank you, Hugo.
You nailed my problem!.on the head.
Yeah great explanation. Plus oily skin......
Hello ed, i just starting as family portrait photographer and I just have 2 Speedlight and 1 Umbrella
Want to ask you can you give tutorial how to using 2 Speedlight and 1 Umbrella to get smooth light when shoot family portrait ?? At least shooting about 4-5 people
I'd add a matching umbrella and place them toward the front on either side of the group, at an angle to get nice even coverage. That's the easiest setup that seems to work for most people. Or try one umbrella in front (at up to a 45 degree angle) and use the bare speedlight from behind (opposite the key light) for a light touch of highlights on the hair and shoulders.
I burst out laughing at "Any further than that and..." #throwssoftbox lol!
Oh man, i have to laugh....wow, you mention me...thanks Ed!!! Know what...i've seen MANY articles/videos on a 24 x 24 and all are very far distances. Some claim that it does soften the light ..at least better than a bare flash. But like you're saying, at those distances (the drop off is quick I'd say), it's really not doing ANYTHING. It's incignificant really.
Ok, while on this subject, what do you think of using on and off (2) flashes, with the off as main? "Outside" the acceptable distance of the 24 x 24, this would be the setup (unless you happen to have a huge softbox).
This would still create shiny skin but since it's not the head/shoulder shot anyway, the faces become smaller as you have more people in the photo. So you're not seeing the shiny skin much anyway. I tend to take much more photo of people that are couples, or groups. Best solution using bare flash for these purposes would be to use as fill and not underexpose the ambient much, if at all. I know you've mentioned it before that using even a bare OFF camera flash is better than straight on flash. So, might as well not be lazy, unless i don't have any assistance. In the case of a silouetted figure against hard backlight, I would try to remember..........to turn down my fec and just lightly make use of the flash, then lift it up further in lightroom/photoshop instead of letting strictly that hard light completely illuminate the subject.
In a nutshell: Head/shoulders use softbox. Anything else, I personally use the bare flash setup above using TTL...one press of the button for pre-flash to get correct flash exposure and it's done. Simple. But I do look for good ambient light if i won't need the flash.
Great, thanks!
What size is the grid?
Any thoughts on how flagging a very soft light affects light on subject? Say a large umbrella a couple feet from subject and flagging off half the face, how soft will light be on lit side and transition to dark side?
That sounds like a good candidate for some experimentation. I’m gonna make an educated guess though. I’d think the closer you place the flag to the subject, the more contrast (definition of shadow).
@@edverosky For sure on the placement of the flag will change the definition of the transition. Thinking more about my question, I think what I'm curious about is by flagging the light, it's technically a smaller light source, so does it change the quality of light where it's not flagged off? so say I'm lighting a face with large umbrella up close, then I decide to flag the light on both the left and right sides of the face so that only the front of the face is lit, how soft is that light compared to before flagging it off? appreciated
@@edverosky Great channel by the way, I've watched a lot of your content.
Why do you record in 15FPS?
If you want soft light - biggest box as close as possible. Any softbox will work - but if you need to take them on site (in the field) then pick one thats easy to assemble/disassemble quickly and easily...
So many options. You can use photoshop to take out shiny skin too.
Can it be fathered even if it's square ? Do a video
can i use ttl mode with softbox?
Yes
It’s like Rocky is teaching me lol good deal I am a fan
He’s getting an effect of a point light source.
Super
Yep: good advice. Keep it close. Don't forget to feather it.
Hope this helps folks Ed, big underscore at 6:07 ,well described.
It’s not intuitive for sure. But so important. Thanks, Gary.
That’s not an inner baffle its a inner diffuser to cut down on specular lighting effects.
Agreed
Using a 24 x 24 softbox is not so great afterall. I've used it for 5 years or so lugging it around outdoors. It's not much help as far as softness. Took this long to realize that. Unless you take someone's portrait of head and shoulders. Those get old after a while. Full body or small group shots it's not doing hardly a thing. Alot of tutorials out their will claim it does at those distances, like saying, "it's still better than just bare flash". Is it really? To bring it along outdoors with little or no assistance, it's not worth the hassle. I'm just using on-camera fill, or if assisted, an additional off-flash (bare). I set my on-camera flash output down a little so i get a ratio going and off-flash is the main. An really...........all this is overly technical. Focus on creative things, like angles etc and finish the job in photoshop. You can create "light" there if you have a good exposure.
wait a minute.. according to the inverse square law the farther away the light, the flatter and less contrast the light will have.
The inverse square law doesn’t really address that. And the farther away a light source the smaller it is relative to your subject. That means more contrast. Like sunlight without the clouds.