I Inject Water Into My Engine and Make More Power
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- Опубликовано: 7 май 2024
- Water Injection system used in the video: www.snowperformance.eu/en/wat...
Here we have a tank. We are going to put this tank in the car and fill it with water. Here we have a pump. This pump will take water from the tank, pressurize it, and send it to this little nozzle which will inject the water inside the engine.
How does injecting water make more power? Water is an incompressible incombustible liquid after all. What you have to understand is that the water itself isn't what's making the power. The water inside the engine is enabling the engine to run a more aggressive tune and it works because we’re making the engine sweat on the inside.
I know this sounds stupid but I’m not making this up. To understand the concept behind water injection inside the engine you have to understand why you sweat? You sweat when you are hot. When you sweat water appears on your skin. As this water evaporates you cool down. You cool down because water has a very high heat of vaporization.
In more simple terms water absorbs massive amounts of energy in the form of heat from its surroundings as it transitions from a liquid to a vapor. This is why if you are much colder when you are wet. Water is taking away massive amounts of heat from your body as it vaporizes and your body struggles to maintain a normal body temperature and you start shivering.
With our nozzle, we are injecting a fine mist of water into the engine. As it vaporizes inside the engine it takes away a massive amount of heat from inside the engine. This is a very good thing because excess heat is the ultimate killer of power and efficiency inside an engine.
Most gasoline engines, especially those with turbo or superchargers, are limited by knock or pre-ignition.
Knock and pre-ignition are NOT the same thing. Pre-ignition occurs before the spark plug fires when the piston is going up. Pre-ignition usually destroys an engine very quickly and it can easily burn a hole through a piston. Knock occurs after the spark plug fires when the piston is going down. Knock can be anything from very mild with minimal damage to very destructive.
Excess heat inside the engine is the main prerequisite for both pre-ignition and knock.
So with ethanol and water in the mix I not only reduced the heat in the chamber but I also increased my resistance to knock and this allowed me to do two things. 1. Increase my boost pressure and 2. Increase my ignition advance.
Increasing boost pressure of course increases power but it also introduces additional heat into the system leading to an increased risk of knock. But I can re-introduce heat into the system because I have taken away a lot of heat with water-ethanol injection.
Increasing ignition advance can also increase power but it too increases pressure and heat in the chamber and leads to an increased risk of knock. It is here that the increased knock resistance of ethanol helps the most.
What I should is that I could have perhaps achieved an even higher power output by running methanol instead of ethanol because methanol has an even richer air-fuel ratio for peak power and an even higher heat of vaporization but methanol is toxic and cannot be legally purchased by individuals in most countries in Europe so I went with ethanol which is very close in performance and isn’t toxic
But wait there’s more. With water ethanol injection I don’t have to worry about carbon buildup inside my engine. The vaporized solution acts sort of like a steam cleaner and keeps things inside the engine carbon deposit-free.
So as you can see water-ethanol injection has many many benefits….so the question is why aren’t cars running this from the factory? Well, the answer is simply because it’s an added cost and complexity but I think that almost every turbocharged car can benefit from a system like this. Many modern cars have small turbocharged engines in the range from 1 to 1.6. liters achieving anywhere from 120 to 300 horsepower. To get this much power these engines have to run pretty high boost pressure. When you put such an engine in stop-and-go traffic in hot weather things get very hot very quickly and I’m sure that if you own such an engine you have experienced how in such conditions these engines are unable to reach anywhere near their advertised fuel efficiency. This is because they only have air and gasoline to work with and when things get hot and they register a little bit of knock they have no other choice but to cool themselves by dumping extra gasoline into the chamber. This means reduced fuel efficiency and reduced power output. Adding water injection alone could improve power and efficiency for these engines.
A special thank you to my patrons:
Daniel
Pepe
Brian Alvarez
Peter Della Flora
Dave Westwood
Joe C
Zwoa Meda Beda
Toma Marini
Cole Philips
00:00 The setup
03:30 Why it works
10:47 Gasoline vs Ethanol
14:54 Tuning
19:57 What really happened at the dyno
#d4a #boostschool 
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Water Injection system used in the video: www.snowperformance.eu/en/water-injection/boost-cooler-stage-2
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Isn't it funny that I used water injection way back in the late 70s on my custom-ordered 69 Chevy Caprice to increase the power of the radical engine my grandfather had built into his brand new Caprice. He ordered the Corvette 350 instead of the stock 350. Stated difference was 25 or 50 hp but they underclaimed the HP for these engines as we know. Then water injection kind of was forgotten about for the most part. Cheers
I'd be really interested to know what proportions of air/water you run with water only injection. I would like to work on a diy water injection system. Probably your kit sets the ratio automatically?
In my teens, I read of how tractor pulls will run staged turbos with water injection.
This thrills me
Can you, please, cover the topic of intercooler types and, especially, phase transition intercoolers. It's sad that 99% of people do not know that this system is relatively cheap, simple and can drop intake temperatures beyond ambient.
What happens at winter? Does water freeze in the system and require some special heating to start the engine?
Probably one of the very few YT channels with over 1m subs yet no adverts, no bling , no corporate crap and no product placement.
I’d say that’s a job well done
👍
Just forget about the alfadan debacle
The hell? He himself said he is sponsored by AEM and had their product placenent many times
@@stasisthebestThe product placement is so blatant I guess they didn’t notice? 😂
The whole video is an ad for water injection
The whole video is an ad for ugly/shotty electrical tape training
Jokes on you. My fuel already comes filled with water from the gas station pump 😂
Edit: Since so many people are not getting it right. Brazilian gas stations sell regular gasoline (which contains up to 15% anhydrous ethanol) and regular ethanol (which doesn't contain any gasoline) at least on paper. Who knows what actually happens.
🤣🤣
Just add some alcohol in the gasoline and water will mix together and ends up inside the cylinder. Water wont even freeze in old carbutators demanding pre heat.
I use 100% ethanol but depending on the gas station it has so much water that the exhaust keeps spitting it out
It's better to mix the water in the vaporization process instead of in the liquid state. 😜
@@thelastwoltzernatural ethanol inherently contains 5% of water, not sure if gas pumps go out of their way to get anhydrous ethanol
An old mechanic I knew explained water injection to me in a slightly different way. If you ignite a fuel/air mixture, it expands itself by about 7 times, moving the piston... water being superheated (like in a steam engine) expands about 20 times... so, if you add water to the combusting air/fuel mixture, the water expands 20 times it's size and takes up room in the combustion chamber so it adds it's expansion to the air fuel expansion going on in the cylinder, which adds up to more bang. Funny story, after I learned this, I added a home made water injection to my Holden (Australia) V8 motor (similar to a small block Chev). I used a water bottle with a fish tank clear hose to a port on the carburettor, with an air valve (from a fish tank) to limit the flow of water. With the motor running, I adjusted open until steam was visible out of the exhaust then closed the valve until the steam was not showing any more. It worked well, had to fill the 5L water bottle every few weeks. A few years later, I rebuilt the engine and I realised the port on the manifold I had used only went to one side of the engine... so, one side head had intake runners, ports and valves were as clean as new, no carbon what so ever... the other side, the whole thing was as sooty as expected. The heads looked like they came from different engines. I recommend water injection on any car... more for longevity than ultimate performance... water injection is probably not yet successful because fuel companies can not (yet) make people pay for water... and using water would lower the fuel bill... so, that would be detrimental to fuel sales (so, better not encourage that) haha Greetings from Australia
Steam expands 1700 times from a liquid to a gas.
The expansion ratios are completely irrelevant. What produces power is the AIR that gets expendanded, not the fuel or the water. Adding water to the air reduces the volumetric efficiency and power of an engine at the same operating point.
@@djole02 ?
@@user-if6yv5rk3j Which part you don't understand? The expansion ratios or the adding of water?
@@djole02 if the expansion ratios are irrelevant, then why do steam engines work?
My father did this back in the '80s. Just fed it into the carburettor, rate controlled by a choke-style cable in the dash. Worked reasonably well so long as he remembered to adjust it when stopping. He was working on a new system, basically taking 4 cylinders of a V8 to have them run as a steam engine using the exhaust from the other 4 and injecting water. Had a weird manifold welded up to route said exhaust around but was really struggling with making the custom cam. Only so much you can do with a stick welder and a bench grinder :)
A man of ideas, he was. The stuff he could have built with even half the tools I have now... his first job was lighting the boilers on locomotives. He knew steam. Bet he could have made it work with the right tools.
Oh yeah, he did tell me about an earlier project he had... dual carbs on a gasoline engine, one normal and the other fed with jet fuel. Big old rod going through the dashboard to switch between the two. He'd switch to jet fuel once up to temperature and running down the highway. But, that was only because he was working on a airbase at the time and could steal all the jet fuel he wanted. Ran the house stove on it too (yeah... oil stove... long time ago).
Anyway, thanks for the memories :)
best essay comment yet
WHAT?!?!!? I'd love to see even a somewhat working prototype of this SteamGas Engine. That's crazy!!
Might work better with smaller pistons for the steam, though. Could put them closer to the chambers to help cool the gas cylinders.
But man, that's a lot of moving parts.
@@korishan Not really any more moving parts... just extra plumbing. I was 15 at the time and, honestly, I can think of a few reasons why it wouldn't work today. But then I can't say I really understood all of what he was attempting.
Like, he was modding the cam to open the valves every stroke, basically dual-lobbing them. Maybe that was how he intended on dealing with all the expanded exhaust from the IC side? Always 2 cylinders drawing in hot exhaust from 1 IC exhaust stroke, a 4-stroke IC feeding a 2-stroke steam plant.
I could see the exhaust rotting away pretty quick... but then how much exhaust would it actually need?
Anyway, not the first engine he had cut in half. There was the inline-6 cut down to 3 for the PTO planer truck that he used to finish the boards cut with the sawmill he built out of car parts. Or, the Damnation Ally style 6-wheeled stair-climbing hand-truck, or... man had a lot of faults but being stuck in a box was not one of them. Old-school Maker, though trained in HD and auto mechanics... he knew his stuff.
People like that are still out there... like the ones that took a little OHC 4-cylinder engine, pulled the head off, and stuck an electric motor in its place. Basically driving the crankshaft and existing drivetrain with a motor as a cheap EV conversion. Good idea? Probably not, but they're running an inefficient EV while I'm still pushing an even more inefficient IC engine around. Credit where it's due.
The only reason running Jet A was any benefit was because he could get it "free". It's basically more refined diesel. I'm actually surprised it ran on it at all. Unless it was actually just avgas, which would make more sense.
@@rocketsurgeon11 Yup, just fancy kerosene. He worked at the base fire department and they had a pit full of barrels the plane mechs dumped, possibly contaminated fuel. Just something for the fire crews on practice days. He'd go out, crack open a barrel, soak a rag in it, and if he could get it to burn, he'd pump it into his second tank. And yes, he said it was a mess (lots of smoke, hard to start) if he forgot to turn it back to gasoline well before he had to stop. Only reason was because it was free (in that nobody cared if he snagged some). The main point was that he'd drain half that tank for the stove when he got home. Burned better in the stove.
Oh, Churchill Manitoba... winter. Cold... like polar bear cold. Back in the days when the kitchen stove was the heat for the house and insulation was the snow drifting through the cracks in the walls. Said the top of that stove glowed red hot all winter. He lived off-base and had to drive to work and back, quite a ways he said. That was his routine: after work, snag some fuel, drive home, drain the tank to fill the stove, take the battery out of the car and put it on the oven door to keep it warm. In the morning, slide a cookie sheet of fuel under the oil pan of the car, on fire, put the battery back in, then start the engine. Drive to work. Got to park inside at work. No, I don't recommend the cookie sheet block heater thing with today's cars ;)
Yeah... more essay answers. Sorry, memories.
First Life of Boris cools his PC with vodka, now this Bosnian mad lad cools his car with vodka.
The possibilities of slavic science are endless.
Rakija, we don't make vodka :)
@@77garga I know that rakija is a thing in the Balkans, I have a Bulgarian gaming buddy who makes his own.
But since 50:50 mixture of water and ethanol is essentially vodka, I wanted to make a joke about that.
@@TopiasSalakka Even just cheap 34% vodka works good.
It's immediately clear that these are Slavs from the south, those from the north would not waste the liquid.
he's Croatian, at least the country I see in the background
Time and again that water injection had been proven to be the golden solution to power gain, fuel efficiency, and reduction to emission. I don't know what exactly prevent mass-adoption of water injection in commercial engines. But it should be adopted.
Same thoughts…it might not RUN on water but the benefits are clear. What a miracle liquid, drink it, clean with it, grow food with it and make Gnarly Gainz on the dyno
Does water cause the internal components to rust?
Iirc the main issue is, just like steam engines, you use a ton more water than you use fuel, so you'd run out constantly if you didn't want to haul around several water barrels in the trunk.
@@JohnDoe-jk3vv That was the issue with old carburetors yes. New injection method doesn't have this issue.
@@Appletank8 What are you talking about? If you use more than 20% water to fuel mass ratio you're adding too much.
In fact, research show that 10% is good enough, and 15-20% is ideal.
18:55 reusing water from the AC condenser for this purpose is honestly brilliant!
it really is. when are you most going to need water injection? when it's hot. when are you most likely going to be running the AC? when it's hot. it's literally a water generator that really only runs when that water needs to be used! it's genius.
Edit: oh! and there's another brilliant part. it's distilled water. condensation is literally distilled water, so there's never any concerns about that water having things that need to be filtered out, growth (algae) aside.
idk i think its a source for problems. What if the water mix with something else? imagine the airfilter have a hole and some insects will injected into the engine.
Why they dont use some good old 5 litre watertank? This will work for weeks and the water is separated from everything else. What if you drive in winter? only dry air no more condense water. Put some Ethanol-water mixture and it will not even freece.
Fun fact: 50-50 water-alcohol mixture (aka improved vodka) is not just optimal for the engine but is also great for celebrating the successfull dyno run.
Yes, ethanol…..methanol on the other hand you don’t want to drink. 😂
Spoken like comrade from Soviet Union era. Upon Soviet return, we lift very big glass of vodka to honour the reawakening of quickest advancing
nation on planet.
this is the content I love to see on youtube! quick and clean installation, and straight to the numbers afterwards.
Yes, exactly this is how it should be. @driving4answers please keep doing this. It is very much appreciated.
No delaying of gratification for you?
ha... did you make it to the end yet lol?
but that's part of the goodness of this guy's stuff. he knows and knows how to use that knowledge. even that little shout out of annealing the copper gasket before installation.
Agee
@@bmxerkrantzQuick note, copper is the exact opposite of steel when it comes to annealing. Copper has to be heated it up and quenched. Only then it softens.
I read that water injection was part of the German Messerschmidt aircraft engine as an emergency power enhancing system, so they could save a couple pilots from crashing.
It was also used in Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasps.
That is pretty incredible!
The American p47 thunderbolt had a water methanol injection system. Could push the engine to 2400 🐎. The ground crews would have to inspect the engine after each use.
The German aeromotors used a mix of water and methanol injected for "maximum war power"
@@dorianleclair7390 was it one of the first developments of the system in america before the war? or were they just surprisingly cautious/had a large stock of them?
I'm NOT an Engineer not a Mechanic / Technician, (I'd LOVE to be one. Just an ER- MD here..). I'm actually wondering about this fact: "One (1 lt) of water, will expand as much as 1.6K - 1.75K times that when it becomes steam". (Relative to pressure affecting said water). I'd really appreciate if anyone clarifies this exact point, AND if this 'expansion' would affect the final power outcome. (IMHO, this topic deserves a Part #2). Thanks D4A for your in- depth reviews regarding topics (Almost..) nobody talks about!!.
😉💪🙏🙏🙏
I'd say it's an old trick that lost to manufacturer's greed. Great to know you bring it back!
Manufacturers always have a tradeoff, improved function vs higher complexity and cost. If it's government mandated, smog, they have to do it and the customer has to pay the cost. If it's not mandated, then will the AVERAGE customer be willing to pay for it. If not, then it won't go into mass production. Possibly the only manufacturer that could get away with it is Porsche.
I've used water/methanol injection for years on supercharged engines. It really helps with heat soak in the summer.
Where do you inject the water? Before or after the supercharger? I wasn’t sure if the water will cause issues with compressors.
After to absorb the heat.
@@jwjohnson7909after turbo and intercooler
I used water / methanol injection with my 10.5:1 LS1 on hot summer days; running the A/C with 87 octane fuel and loaded with people. That worked much better than running 93 octane; which varied greatly in quality.
100+ race gas worked too, but was expensive per gallon.
The methanol injection system was the cheapest way to daily drive that car in the summer.
The cold air allowed 87 fuel during the winter, and no methanol was needed.
An adjustment knob allowed me to fine tune the spray amount, as driving conditions changed or turn it off completely.
I tapped the windshield washer tank for the reservoir.
Held about 1 gallon and windshield washer fluid is cheapest during hot summer months. I would top it off when I filled the fuel tank; reservoir never ran empty.
That system worked much better than trying to find decent high octane fuel; the quality is hit and miss while not stopping the detonation, just less detonation.
Car still had no power and had to drive carefully to not sound like an Olds diesel.
The methanol injection was capable of eliminating 100% of the detonation and restored about 80% of the hp; car could be driven like a normal automobile.
@@jhoncho4x4 Something was deeply wrong with that engine to run that poorly at only 10.5:1 compression.
Cooler combustion chamber means reduction in NOx emissions as well!
Yes!
And if we can reduce NOx with water, cleaner top engine from use, and even cleaner still because it could potentially allow us to dropkick the EGR system into the trash where it belongs. Or at least use it solely for holding pressure and not for strangling the engine to cool it. (At least that's what a big part of EGR used to be...I'm getting old😋)
EGR functioning properly is supposed to only to activate at low throttle
And with condensing the water from the exhaust gas, we could re-use it.
Question would be, how much water could we inject and what could we get from this. So actually, what could a crazy tuner do if he doesn't care about water consumption? Water has a really nice expansion by transitioning to vapor, so I'm quite sure it is a part of the power increase or may become one, turning the engine into an internal combustion steam engine. Just a thought, I lack the experience in real working on engines or cars in general and a project car to test it myself.
@Appletank8 my first diagnostic in the field was egr stuck open causing rough idle. Egr opens at high throttle to cool combustion with non combustible exhaust gas to reduce nox emissions. Mazdas 2 stroke valved engine uses it at low for pressure maintenance but the dirty gasses at even lower Temps like this could potentially foul combustion chambers faster
I've had a Snow Perf H²O Injection System since 2014 and it has been amazing! Its on a '05 Ford 6.0l Diesel which has been carefully and systematically bullet-proofed and enhanced since 2009! Unfortunately, the truck itself has succumbed to the rigors of NW British Columbia's long, winding and very hilly highways, as well as snow (50% of the year) and rain (other 50%).
BTW I'm now in the process of locating another '05 F350 SD Fx4 4wd Lariat to use as a donor truck to drop my engine, drivetrain, and yes the Snow System into! As long as the body and frame are in very good condition of course.
Other than tuning, injectors, and turbo, the Snow Performance water injection has given me the most (noticeable) performance increase! And I've never had a problem with it either. As well, now when towing my EGTs are running in the green, when before the system, they were regularly running well into the red! I highly recommend the product.
Funny because I’m watching the video with the comments section open, while thinking about what vehicle I’d like to put water injection on. Thinking about cylinder head temps I thought about my aircraft engine on my airboat, then I start thinking about whether people use them on Diesel engines and here’s your comment. I am building a second airboat with a om606 Mercedes Diesel engine, also I have an 05 duramax, two ram Cummins trucks, and a bmw x5 diesel. Back in 2007 I had bought a cooling mist water injection kit for my Subaru sti but never got to install it because another kit came out that worked hand in hand with my ecu, unfortunately I never ended up buying that one so never gained that experience. So it’s something I’d like to experiment with.
@shidukirider Water injection was and still is one of the best upgrades I've made to my diesel truck! All Pros and zero Cons👍
I commented a while back in this thread with some more details of my experience with it if you're interested
I can help you find a 2005 Ford with No Rust. I live in New Mexico , no rain/no snow equals No Rust.
Just leave a comment to me
@user-kb2bs9hy2v Hey. I appreciate the response, and I will keep you in mind. But, I've had a few other offers from Alberta Canada, which is next door to my Province of British Columbia! But, if they fall through I may be in touch. Thanks again! 🤝
@@djsmith4789
Thanks
"I Inject Water Into My Engine and Make More Power"
In 99,9% i would not even Klick on a Video with that Title.
But in your Case, i saw that Video, read the Title, and asked myself: "Wow, how did he made this?"
Yeah, first time I see someone using water properly and not some kind of "let's just use water and it will become vapor in the chamber and create pressure" nonsense we usually see on old atmospheric cars
That MK1 MR2 is a gem!
yes, and easy peacy under 980 kg weight only!
It really is. You'd expect someone like this to have an MX-5 but nope, he rocks the mid-engine matchbox car GOAT.
SAAB sold a water injection kit for the 99 Turbo and there you had to mix water with windshield washer fluid during winter, maybe even all year round. Think it added 20hp with raised boost. So from 145 to 165hp from a 2-litre engine which must have been really impressive in the late 1970's
I was waiting for him to mention the SAAB 99 and surprised he didn't.
the second mass production turbocharged car in the US, the 1962-1963 Oldsmobile F85 Jetfire, used a water/methanol injection system as well. It had some complicated vacuum control system that would bypass the turbo if your water/meth tank ran out so you didn't destroy the engine. They used aluminum 215 ci V8 engines and made a respectable for the times 218hp.
The biggest downside of this system other than the complex vacuum safety system was the 215's overheating issues, likely exacerbated in this case by the extra power. All in all, they were cool cars but I'm glad my F-85 is a few years newer and has a naturally aspirated 330ci engine, less vacuum hose spaghetti to deal with and no need to homebrew a water/methanol/rust inhibitor cocktail of my own to make the turbo actually do something.
The power wasn't that special for a turbo-charger 2l. But saab was the first one with a nice to drive turbo without huge turbo lag and loads of down low torque.
@@gorkzop The car I drove in the driving school back in 70's was a turbo Saab. On one of the first lessons we stopped at the red lights and I forgot to change from 3rd to 1st gear (manual gearbox) - when the lights turned green we did proceed normally. The driving instructor pointed out my error stating quite laconically that in other cars that would not have worked.
I can click thumb up even before watching knowing that I did not make a mistake.
A side note at 10:46. I doubt that ethanol is compressible in a sense as gas is compressible. It is a liquid after all. Theoretically it is a bit more compressible than water but for all practical purposes it is uncompressible. But it does evaporate faster than water, vapour is a compressible gas and it adds energy to combustion.
I'm envious of how much info the younger generations have at their finger tips these days. This video exemplifies that
looking back on our days, yeah me too bro,
and yet generation nowadays are mostly stupid and looked away, only few take notice
You had car magazines written by engine masters, quit whinin' boomer
It's mostly a curse, a blessing and a curse
this gotta go everywhere, that's so cool
ah, classic copper plate, always to the rescue
Me and my friends at 1am redlining my shitbox dumping a bottle of whiskey down the carb to increase power (we have $5 in our bank accounts between us)
You a programmed to be poor.
Sounds like a waste of whisky. Especially if you only have dollars
Peak ragebait
should just used a leaf blower and saved the whisky
this comment did not reach the right audience 😂😂😂😂
You deserve every single one of your subscribers. I've got really into engine theory and engine maths recently, and this channel makes things so much easier to understand.
Basic windshield washer fluid is 49/51 methanol/distilled water. A lot of people plumb right from the washer fluid reservoir.
I swear I just congratulated you two months ago for hitting 500k and now it's at 1M!! Well done, sir. Well deserved. Hopefully many million more to come. Thanks for all you add to the automotive world.
WMI is very cool. I always wondered if the extra oxygen amounts to any extra power as well.
Next time: How to use water to clean the windows :)
and yes, water injection is a nice trick! People who don't believe should ask themself, why your engine is running smoother and feel more potent when it's foggy outside.
Some say, that the transformation from water to steam in the chamber adds also slight power.
😮, yeah it feels so different driving on a rainy day.
I mean, people that don't believe in it should look at something like half WW2 plane engines, water injection was quite common at the time
as a person who seems to be unable to master the art of cleaning glass... I take offense to this comment lol
@@bmxerkrantz Few drops of dishwas soap in a bucket and voila a master is born!
@Triggernlfrl I'm a smoker... ammonia is needed to dilute the tar. still leaving streaks or taking ages to clean lol. appreciate the tip!
That pump is HUGE (that's what she said:). You R the "Combustion Whisperer". Thank you Cheers from So.Ca.USA 3rd House On the Left 🏡
This is an old idea. But a very good idea. Pity it is not more common. In fact a 6 stroke engine was developed that injected water as an extra power stroke. No water cooling system was required. This is an even better idea.
Im in love with the ending of this video
Awesome. Ran a water/meth injection in my e36s first turbo setup like 20 years ago. Made 500+whp with it and pump 94.
Not too shabby
In 1963 Oldsmobile had an all aluminum 215 cu. inch V8 in 5 configurations , one of which had a 1 bbl carb and water/alcohol injection. Actually, I don't think it was injection, but rather a siphon deal at the carb. This engine produced the most h.p. at 215 h.p. , making 1 h.p. per cubic inch of displacement.
Should do a video about water/alcohol injection in diesel engines!
My dad did this 45 years ago. We used the windshield wiper pump and reservoir to inject water/methional directly into the carb when the turbo was under boost.
It must have been one hell of a pump to overcome manifold pressure when under boost.
Al contrario se produce vacío que succiona el agua más rápido a menos que sea turbo o sobre alimentado
@@RobertBeck-pp2ru draw through turbo lol 45 years ago
Water methanol or ethanol injection should be a feature on every forced induction production car. It not only reduces heat soak and increases engine efficiency, but it helps remove engine deposits and helps keep the catalytic converter clean. If used correctly, it can also significantly increase fuel economy.
"If used correctly"
But that is the problem: Most people would not use it correctly and in that case it would just be added cost, complexity, weight and failure-points for no benefits. People are often too stupid to even fill up the right gas, let alone do regular oil-changes (the simplest maintenance), constantly refilling their car with clean water is way beyond them. Just imagine how many calls there to repair-services there would be cause somebody yet again put the water into their normal tank?
I mean seriously i have seen somebody try to fill up their tesla at a normal gasstation.
@@ABaumstumpf you are so right! BMW is definitely on the right path in finding a self-replenishing water source in the vehicles for their water injection system.
@@ghostwrench2292 self-replenishing? You mean rain?
@@ABaumstumpf
You're generally correct, and automobiles have never been idiot proofed, even though they keep trying. However, they could design the system where it's integrated with the engine management system, have it generate a notification when it's time to refill, and make it as simple as adding washer fluid or gas.
@@ABaumstumpf Those people are too stupid to even drive.
Hey I've installed dozens of these kits over the years. The bottom of your tank looks like it's at pretty much the same height as the pump, I'd recommend having the pump at least a few inches lower than the bottom of the tank. Also I'd highly recommend installing an inline shut off solenoid. Only seen it once and heard of another person running into the same issue where the nozzle leaked the residual pressure from the line when the engine was off and caused the engine to hydrolock. In one case the starter was too weak to cause damage but still required a teardown to inspect, the other case did lead to a bent rod. Not worth the minimal cost of the solenoid
A Water to Air Intercooler setup might be a good idea if your intercooler doesn't get good airflow
i was thinking the same
Or strap a big old fan on that intercooler.
I second this. Also a little aux fan would help to, and some ducting from a side vent in front of the rear wheel(which may need to be added).
It would be good to do a video on the different solutions available to make the intercooler work efficiently. Better ducting of air in and out. Adding a fan for slow traffic. Relocate the intercooler. Add an air to water intercooler with the heat sink in the nose or boot.
I think i saw once a subaru impresa (rally version or so) with such system... from factory
Lets not forget the mild hybrid steam effect
Water injection also results in increased mass of the working fluid that the engine is working with, resulting in increased power output. This is especially used in gas turbines used in combined cycle power plants.
Excellent video and explanation. And to think, turbochargers, superchargers, inter coolers, and water injection were developed and deployed 80 years ago in high performance piston airplanes.
I want to add water meth injection to my little 1.6 HDI, and it might also help de-carbonizing the engine and intake components (PCV+EGR= wacky slugde)
I want to add water meth injection to m...
-elja 2024
Are you going to add a better turbo/intake or exhaust?
@@xxcookiethecatxx2759 yeah, I'm planning on deleting all the emissions stuff like the DPF, and I already got a better intake on it, and I want to flash the ECM with a bit more aggressive tune.
It's really a no brainer. Distilled water sales would increase, engines would make more power more reliably, exhaust would be cleaner, and less NOx would be produced. The cars are already running external electric water pumps, it's not like the hardware isn't already in the cars to do this. Run a few extra lines and another tank and you're good. Now you don't need auxilary port injection(since steam cleans the engine, which means fewer valve deposits), or you can convert the aux port injection for water/ethanol mix.
David Vizard doesn't get enough credit, man is a genius.
Just use 34% cheap vodka lmao
i don't think it's a good mass market thing, id say most people wouldn't refill the water. And water is a scarce resource in a lot of places, especially distilled water.
might do it in my own combustion engine through, if i have one.
@@crackedemerald4930 The need for distilled water is why it will never get adopted. in some places, they're impossible to get.
Vodka, is, easier.
Will not happen due to politics. All the focus is on EVs. The EV ideologues ignore advantages of any alternate technology while glossing over the disadvantages of EVs. Same for hydrogen, LPG and hybrids.
"David Vizard" Huh?
You do know that this is pre-WW2 technology?
And no, it is not "just add a tank and be done".
Thanks for bringimg the MR2 back! Great project
We did this in the 70's with our air-cooled VW's. We put a windshield wiper tank and pump in the backseat with a hose to the top of the air cleaner. A manual switch turns on and off. We tested the cylinder temp with a sensor under a spark plug. Running at 70mph in LA heat could really cook those little 1600cc engines. We found temperatures reduced greatly, but no fuel or performance improvement regardless of the alcohol mixture. Pulling the heads off we were surprised how clean the pistons and exhaust valves were. We gave up on the project, but whenever someone came in for a tune-up, we ran the water spray for about 30 min on the highway and it removed a ton of knock and pinging.
Excellent video!!! I think if memory recalls that old Top Gear did a piece on SAAB including the original 99 Turbo having water injection.. RIP SAAB 🙏
I've toyed around with water injection systems over the years and one thing I noticed was my oil level dropped sooner when injecting water into the cylinders. I once ran out of oil on a long trip and sent a conrod through the block so do keep an eye out on oil levels.
That's because the water takes the carbon off the piston and the sides of the piston.The carbon builds up like a seal on the side of the piston to stop oil burning or blow pass. Carbon is good for sealing. If you want to clean the top end of your engine, a cup of water will clean all the carbon of the piston and valves.
@@robertblunden7160 yep the plugs are always very clean with water being injected and there is minimal carbon buildup. I think a small percentage of the oil also gets steam-cleaned out which is why the oil levels need to be monitored more often.
Water-Ethanol injection was used during WW2 by both sides to gives a boost of power
One of the best content creator in RUclips regrading real things about engine ering!
1:14 You can’t fool me. Everyone knows water doesn’t burn. You’ve changed the black hose for a red one. That adds at the very least 10hp.
I counted at least three red hoses, that's 30hp!
A Turbo doesnt burn either and jet it increases power
Water Injection works even better on a diesel engine, because it increases timing. I run a dual nozzle setup on my V70 2.4 D5 with selfmade intake pipes, which makes a lot of power!
Did you remap it?
@@peterkovacs233 Yes, i tuned it myself using KESS V2 and help from some forums. I even have a Stage 2 file, but i think that the automatic gearbox wont hold it. Even the engine mounts dont hold the torque, because two of them ripped of at a strong pull
I had a diesel truck that would overheat when we towed our RV in the Rocky Mountains. A 15-gallon tank, 12v water pump, cheap 1/4" irrigation tubing, and a few plant misters took care of the overheating issue. The mister nozzles sat behind the grille and in front of the radiator. It was cool to see how quickly the misted water would bring the temperature down.
Awesome job! Totally agree that water injection should be way more common. It's not on commercial production vehicles because water freezes and expands. That problem would require air purging of lines every time the vehicle turns off and before the temperatures in those lines gets close to freezing and/or an alcohol mixture. If part of an essential tune, the engine might be damaged WHEN the fluid runs out. People would most definitely NOT take care of it properly and warranty costs would be enormous for the manufacturer.
world war 2 aircraft engines used water/glycol injection for take off and short term military power for same reasons. They had sodium filled valves and still needed extra cooling to prevent pre ignition.
I saw a cool system on a turbo corvair once. It used the positive manifold pressure fed to the top of the water tank (one way valve) to automatically inject water under boost. Water/ethanol injection was used back in WWII airplanes on both sides.
That is a beautifully simple proportional flow implementation. If it's feeding pre-turbo nozzles or nozzles located after a venturi, it's effectively a set and forget system.
In the 1980s, I bought and installed a water injection system for my 1968 Chevy Corvair. IIRC, it "listened" for knock, and adjusted the amount of water injected based on that. I was able to advance my timing a good bit from where it had been, giving that relatively anemic engine a little more power, which was then mostly wasted by the awful "Powerglide" 2-speed automatic transmission. I did have to keep water in the jug, so one extra item aside from gasoline and oil to keep track of. But at least I didn't need to worry about coolant levels.
Now I'm a junior tuner because of your videos and explanations!
Thanks a lot.
I started last year my business tunning Toyota ecu/remap, learned too much from you.
Thanks again.
4:05 "you sweat when you are hot"
Take note of that ladies, here I come...
19:57 pure racing engineering
Typical Balkaneering. I mean that as an endearment, not the google result I got 'x)
nearly 70 years ago some guy made a water kit for a Triumph T120. Not to get extra power, it was tuned to get maximum fuel economy. It lost about 2BHP at the rear wheel but oh my word did it go forever on a tank of fuel. A friend had one and got from Bedford to St Ives Cornwall on a single tank. That's a tad over 300 miles or roughly 500km. He was doing 50MPH most of the way. IE he was using the collossal amounts of expansion of water turning to steam IE 1 liter of water produces a minimum of 13,000 liters of steam or enough to turn the engine 16,900 revolutions. The bike carried 1 gallon or 4.5 liters of water. That's 10 minutes at max rpm (if you could keep the engine warm enough) and does not take into account the thermal expansion of the steam due to being over 100C. The engine was also patterned. That alone can make 20% difference.
I ran water methanol injection on my previous car, an euro 3 Alfa Romeo 156 1.9JTD with much joy for over 10 years and 500.000 km's. Removing direct injection injectors was a breeze, water also cleanes very very well.
BUT, my current car, euro 6 Alfa Giulietta does not like WMI. Observing the manifold temperature the sensor responds very slowly causing stuttering.
The engine is not tuned but reducing sooth, cleaning the engine with an EGR and some performance boost are very welcome!
Also, I learned that the 50:50 ratio is also for safety as this is the maximum amount of ethanol before the mixture becomes flamable.
I always used bio-ethanol as it is cheaper then ethanol.
Most (high end WW2) piston powered aircraft had water injection for take-off. That way, they could run at FULL power to get themselves off the ground.
Neat that we can still use that system!
Yes, the Germans called it MW50.
@@vladconstantinminea I thought that was nitrous.
@@RazingthenRaising Nope, Nitrous was called GM-1 "Göring Mischung" Both systems where needed by the Axis forces beacause they had inferior fuel than the Allies...
@@tiboreeb5360 Yep. Amazing what they were able to do with what they had!
I guess I'll have to double check my info.
Either way, water injection was (still is?) VERY common on aircraft engines.
@@RazingthenRaising I dont think it was used other than for military application, and i dont think the systems that are on still airworthy warbirds are really being used today, but i may be wrong :) --- > and i was wrong, as it seems the injection was later used extensively in commercial jet aircrafts...
The insidious thing most modern engines do is to pull timing the instant the knock sensor thinks it detects knock.
I inject water/methanol (cheap windshield washer fluid) with an aquarium pump and 20 gauge needle to prevent this and get as much as 20% more mileage from 5 to 10% ratio to fuel injection. More than that and millage drops off, but I don't have access to tweaking timing. My Toyota maxes at 40 degrees BTDC and my Subaru maxes at 42 degrees.
This is for economy, not power under constant highway load.
Always wondered how water/meth worked! Watched a video by David Visard, he was talking about water injection. He said that theoretically you could inject only water every other power stroke as the heat and compression would create enough steam pressure to operate.
Ok, I wasn't sure what to expect when I clicked on this. But I now know/understand something I have never before, and that is water injection. Great video!
Awesome to see you still have the MR2!
Here in the states, we can buy E-85 gas, (85% ethanol, cheaper than 87 octane) and mix it with 87 and water (distilled). Some guys use it in n.a. engines, but the real benefit of the mix goes to turbo engines with intercoolers and a quality control unit. Excellent topic Drivin.
Friend has been interested in this for years, his investigation found that apart from cooling the pistons/valves/intake air and cylinder walls. also under the right conditions some water splits into hydrogen and oxygen which of course increases power, my own experience was a van running LPG that I owned in the 90's which I drove for 10 to 12 hours per day would have greatly improved economy on wet days, we had a six month period where there was torrential rain on many days, my litres per 100 kilometres improved considerably on those crazy wet days, water increases drag, so it really did a excellent job.
I have been reading multiple studies about water injection in modern engines. Seems to be really exciting and a lot of promise. Mostly it seems to be aimed towards reducing NoX emissions.
My neighbor just imported one of these from Japan. I am so jealous. I had an NA manual back in the day, and I miss it dearly. My uncle, rest his soul, had an auto. Yep... my neighbor's is supercharged too. I am jealous. The car is MINT. 🎉 😂
16:54 This question I was waiting to be answered! That's more important than HP.
I worked on KC-135 airplanes in the US Air Force. They have water tanks that they used to inject water into the jet engines on take off. With modern engines the water injection isn't needed anymore and they're just plugged up.
Quite a different application, but thought you might find it interesting that an airplane is still flying around in the USAF that has tanks for water injection!
At 15:12 If you listen really carefully, you can hear an MX5 with a 0.016 L engine revving to 70.000 rpm in the background
Uh, it would have blown up long before 70,000 rpm! 😅
I think thats my laptop fan
Aircraft Engines in WW II had Water Injection in combustion chambers to reduce head temperatures in extreme situations, and avoid the head and piston melting.
But this did in fact increase wear, induce corrosion
I never would have believed this to be true. I had to check the description to make sure it wasn't an April Fools joke, but your logic is second to none.
Scavenging water from AC is genius
It is. I only wonder if it produces a sufficient quantity of water. Seems it would be very dependent on the climate in which the car is driving. Living in the desert, there isn't a lot of moisture in our air for the A/C system to condense water from.
Time for Turbosmart clamps! Man where you live is gorgeous!
the music from 19:48
plus the face on 19:52 😆
bro we gotta love these
and these types of vlogs is what keeps me interested of internet,
please stay healthy always and keep us intertained same time learning a very complicated but yet simple terms of knowledge on automotive,
hope to have more learnings in the future acquired from D4D 🥰🙏💪
I'd always hear about water-methanol injection and thought it would prevent combustion from happening in engines, thanks for explaining!
Such a great and informative video, thankyou brother!
Ahh the old WWII trick to keep compression high in aircraft engines. Water injection could be the way to reduce combustion temps instead of ERG system. Simple and clean
could it be used as an alternative to leaded petrol in vintage engines though? i understand the lead prevents knock which is what the video says the water is doing.
Water you doing?! :) One thing I would add to this talk about pressure and power with water injection is a comparison of volumetric expansion. When water hits its heat of vaporization (212 F) nothing can stop the expansion (which is why steam engine horsepower is about limitless, check out speeds of early motorcycles) and the expansion is approx 1600 times its original volume compared to around half as much from modern pump petrol. So when you have three players in the combustion chamber with all kinds of different attributes when is comes to expansion, heat of vaporization, and the interactions with one another things can get a little complicated, at least for my smooth brain. Big fan of the underdog developments!
In Brazil, since the end of 1970's and the very beginning of 1980's brazilian drivers have ethanol available at the gas station pumps.
This is not a "pure" ethanol, but a mix of 95% of ethanol and a 5% of water.
All the engine tuners in Brazil have discovered huge amounts of power and torque since then.
Just as example, brazilian aircooled VW Beetles from firrst half of 1980's came from factory with gasoline only engines (7,5:1 compression and 45hp @ 4000 rpm), or ethanol only engines (11:1 compression ratio and 57hp @ 4200 rpm).
I highgly recommend you all to learn more about the brazilian experiencie, and to know about Proalcool Program from the 1970's.
😉
More mechanic content 😁
FYI, in SE Asia countries and Brazil, we use up to E85 (85% ethanol mixed with 15% gasoline) in gasoline engine. In Thailand, the options are E5, E10, E20, and E85. Most of the recent gasoline car must be tuned to accept at least E10 (but they generally tuned to accept E20, for example the 2NR-VE in toyota yaris cross AC200).
You can also spray water over the intercooler.
Excellent! So this is 100 year old technology (WW2 German fighters). This is exactly what the big boys and car manufacturers don't want you to know and manufacturers will likely never provide. And that is why RUclips is our greatest asset! Covered well here! Good job! I'm subscribing!
water sounds nice but most people will likely forget to top the water. It could work if the car forced you to refill the water but then people will complain about it. It would be nice if gas stations would also have pumps for deionized water and refill the gas along with the water which should last more than a whole gas tank
DEF fluid is already something you buy in jugs at gas stations and autoparts stores, if water injection becomes mandatory/mainstream in cars i imagine it would be the same.
I'm sure you're already aware, but one other possible benefit of H2O injection is combustion cylinder pressure. It's probably negligible compared to the rest of the benefits. But one could hypothesize that any miniscule amount water inside the cylinder that hasn't been completely vaporized yet, will turn into steam once ignition occurs. And water has a 1700:1 expansion ratio. Anyway, great video as always!
Energy that turns water into steam is huge, so it reduces pressure at the same time because temperature is lower. So it cancels out basically, you use a bit more gas to boil the water
@@tedarcher9120 Sounds legit.
my grandpa told me he had a water injection system fitted to his old opel kadett carburator back in the day and it made more power and was more efficient. i was amazed by it and always wondered how it worked.
It's nice to see something that my group was doing int the 90's being mentioned. There were people adding water/ethanol to gain 100hp (they said) using windshield washer pumps, and their biggest complaint was remembering to fill the tanks. Some of them had dual sprays, with the other spray going over outside of the intercooler. Supposedly these two tricks did wonders for a 6G72 twin turbo on +35C track days. A few people even added water sprays to their brakes for track days!
Stuff like the copper plate gasket is what makes this hobby so much fun
6700nm of torque holy crap with 5000lbs of torque your going to rip off the rear end of the car, lmao of course I am kidding and know its a mistake
Im so happy to see your new vids come out, its always something so interesting and fun to actually learn about. Love it here!
I e been waiting for you do make this video! 🎉 Great content brother, thank you. 🙏🏼
What about corrosion and lubrication? Doesn’t this water affect the engine tendency to wear?
Yes and no. Lets look at what might happen:
Water will not mix with oil easily, oil is put on the cylinder wall and also removed by the piston rings, they seal the chamber from burning oil and from injected fuel leaking into the oil system, so in theory they will also seal off the water from going into the engine oil. Since no seal is perfect, every engine will burn minuscule amounts of oil (except VWs they burn a bit more) so the water/ethanol mix might slowly creep into the engine oil as well, ethanol being a great solvent might make the oil thinner (same as when your fuel mixes with oil) while the water will emulsify with the oil eventually into the ever beloved cursed foamy caramel pudding from hell.
Because of that, it might make make oil change intervals shorter, which isn't a bad thing per se. If that happens to be introduced into the mass production cars its certainly a thing thats going to be tested on the customer.
Corrosion is another topic. I doubt it will be an issue since the water-ethanol mix is short lived inside the engine and most modern intake manifolds are made from lightweight and corrosion proof polymers. The water evaporates (being innate) and leaves through the exhaust system while the ethanol burns. The water might even have a positive effect on emissions as the bad parts NOx are the Dioxides (NO2). There will be more NO2 the hotter the whole combustion gets, so by cooling the chamber effectively you can reduce NO2 emissions.
@@haku1155 thanks for your input. However I am still a bit concerned. Water does not dissolve much in oil, true, but it may emulsify. As for its evaporation, certainly that happens, but I suppose it is a matter of rates. If water does not get removed at a fast-enough pace, I suppose it could lead to accumulation in the crankcase and there I am not so sure every thing is corrosion-proof. Also it is true as you say that NOx can be reduced, but water can increase oxidation of the oil, which may lead to faster than normal replacement. I am not sure, if that is the scenario, that people will be so happy to change the lubricant.
But , I guess that this is taken into account by whoever company believes in this technology.
If you are one who constantly "gets on it" at every light or straight away, you will no doubt begin to see a coffee colored slime on the underside of your oil filler cap. It's a warning sign to change your oil. If you use full power only occasionally, say for merging into freeway traffic, most of the water vaporizes away in normal driving. Even so, it's a good idea to shorten the oil change intervals if you equip your engine with water injection.
If I remember correctly, the Yellowbird (fastest car in the late 80s) also used water injection. Outpaced Countach and Testsrossa, and even the 959 😅
As long as the water/meth system is working properly. Otherwise you’re looking at serious damage. Direct injection fuel systems would benefit tremendously keeping the carbon build up in check on the valves.
I love all your videos. In this particular video, I learned a lot about water/ethanol/methanol injection. This modification has so many benefits to creating more horsepower and cooling at the same time. Thank you so much for this video. And now it's time to research how I would be able to apply this to my 2017 Ford Focus ST.
I WANTED TO TRY THIS! Thank you for making the video and testing it for us all.
That music at the end is the happiest music I've heard in a long time.