Listening to channels like yours gave me the courage to leave my Christian nationalist family and build a new way of life and healing for me and my child. Thank you.
Good luck. I never had that problem. I was born without a god concept and never been indoctrinated in some sort of religion. I remained my whole 64 life without a god concept. But then again if you live in secular Holland nobody gives a damn if you’re an atheist. Thank god. Oeps 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Always remember that life is a buffet and religion is like only having a bowl of rice. A good tool in walking in the garden of life is to laugh when there is joy, and laugh harder when there are challenges...that is a difficult habit to work on, but try it out a few times and watch the results.
@@NeverTalkToCops1 Your point is true but I would absolutely argue it's more than just a 'little bit'. It is a systematic teaching that there is something beyond logic and reason.
Great job as always. I know they do not talk about the deep christian element fundamental within the insurrection in the mainstream media, glad you guys do. But as someone from Jamaica and then the UK, now here, I always wondered about the deep reverence to the constitution, when life and times obviously change. That thing should be forever changing in my view.
Right on! Jan 6 = America's Peasants Crusade Will USA Democracy go same as Cathars? Christian Nationalists Infiltrated Legislative, Administrative and Judiciary FEDS, STATES and Local Govt!
Andrew Seidel is a person who speaks with knowledge but also with conviction. Thank you for having him in your show. I think he has a great future as one of the informed person who calmly and judiciously speaks the truth. Great for him.
I think it's only necessarily true when you can tie the lie you want to push to their religion, however tenuously. We've just entered an era when politics are ties to the evangelical faith, which makes influencing their beliefs about political facts that much easier. But even atheists are primed to accept lies and bad takes. As humans we're not great at spotting lies and we all engage in motivated reasoning.
What do you think about removing non-profit, tax free status from any church that advocates for political issues and representatives. The laws are in place. I say enforce the law.
Religions are not supposed to have tax exemptions, in the first place. Religious exemptions violate separation of church and state, and equal protection. _"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history._ (See the cases in which negatives were put by J. M. on two bills passd by Congs and his signature withheld from another. _See also attempt in Kentucky_ for example, _where it was proposed to exempt Houses of Worship from taxes."_ - James Madison, Detached Memoranda [emphasis added] press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions64.html
Churches should have to declare income and expenditure like anyone else. They should however be allowed to claim for items which help others.. and prove the help provided. Its the biggest con in the western world.. in fact ALL the world.
I’m from the UK, I’m delighted that, even though our politicians are frequently useless, we at least keep religion out of our politics. I am just shocked at how this religious lunacy permeates your political system. I wish you the very best of luck in getting out of this situation.
"we at least keep religion out of our politics". Have you not seen how many clergymen get a seat in the house of lords by virtue of their religious position? We've still a way to go yet. And don't get me started on state funded religious schools...!
@@bakedbean37 25 Bishops sit out of 691 in the House of Lords, yes I agree it’s ludicrous. However, the House of Lords cannot connect any legislation, it can only amend legislation sent through from the House of Commons. In the event the House of Lords tries to block legislation from the House of Commons, they cannot do so, the commons can overrule them. So whilst it seems ludicrously anachronistic that there are 25 bishops in the House of Lords it hardly interferes with our political system. If you remember some years ago Nick Clegg when deputy prime minister announced that he was an atheist, well he didn’t really announce it he was asked a question and he answered the question. It’s caused barely a ripple in the political establishment, or the press, or his support base. Imagine in America if the Vice president announced that he or she was an atheist, there would be some sort of meltdown. I agree about religious schools, but that’s not a political institution.
The T-Shirts were bad enough. Locally here we have to sit in traffic with their jacked up trucks flying Trump flags & they have had their tailgates or entire trucks wrapped with the "Trump 2020 F*ck Your Feelings!" Written over the American flag. You can find the truck wraps on Amazon. And they don't care if you have kids in the car, they still drive aggressively. If they pull up near you at a light you know to put your windows up because they have a system on their diesel trucks that lets them dial how big the cloud of black smoke is that they blow out when the light changes.
But yet, they are letting their feelings say it was stolen, when clearly it was not stolen, since there were no evidence of it, as 2020 proved to be the most secure Election in history.
This is the most cogent and relevant conversation I have ever heard about the state of our nation in the current moment. I humbly thank you both for introducing objective facts and rational dialogue in to the national conversation. I can only hope that you will be broadly heard.
Christian nationalism is part of a predication over 150 years ago and because of the bible prophecies. Start video at 13:30 ruclips.net/video/yxMVMfYQ86s/видео.html All denominations will be deceived in the coming together, but there are remnant people who will not. And yes it’s against the constitution. Watch until the end of the video. It’s an overview of a deeper study really. Here’s a basic bible study: ruclips.net/video/4y3tDILQFhE/видео.html
I hope you are not one of those people who consider everyone who voted for trump a fascist. Because, if that is the case and you don't want to unify with roughly 50% of all americans, you are in for a rough ride.
My father was a Republican. His family had been Republicans since before the Civil War. When George W. began to mix politics and religion my father quit the GOP. Dad died in October at 93 and I am so glad he missed the treasonous crazyness following the election it would have made him so miserable.
I'm a Christian and I admit that religion and state should be kept far apart. Jan 6 is a good example of why the belief in 'the chosen of god' is dangerous
@Move_I_Got_This the same man who refused to be acknowledged as the chosen of God. If people want to believe it then that is their right as an American, but when they act as though violent actions and acts of treason as justified based on those beliefs then they are crossing a line.and throughout history politicians have used religion to control the actions of believers by taking advantage of their beliefs. I have no problem with believers, I myself am one, but I admit that a skilled public speaker with a hold over the faithful is a very dangerous thing.
As great as it is to read your comment and being honest about seeing the need of separation of church and state, there are millions of Christians that would say you aren't Christian for holding that belief, you don't have God in your heart or you never truly accepted Jesus as your savior. And its because there is that division, even in your own camp mind you, that makes religious beliefs dangerous, the teachings draw a perverbial line in the sand on every single moral or ethical act one can be involved in and if your not on the correct side your burning in hell. Why are you a Christian? What is most convincing about Christianity opposed to another religion?
@@markdwolf3198 my belief doesn't require their approval. If they want to judge me then they can go on right ahead. Why do I believe? Because I chose to. And here is what a lot of Christians forget: there is the sinner, the heathen, the harlot, the pagan and the nonbelievers. And if Jesus was walking today he would have sat down, talked to them, healed them and loved each and every single one of them. The only people he showed any hate to was the people who made money off religion.
@@smity739 It is good that you made your way to Seth's channel and I hope you keep coming back for more great content! I really appreciate your open-mindedness because it gives me hope that _all_ religious people will one day exhibit this level emotional intelligence.
Just gotta say it is so refreshing to hear good-hearted, rational thinking, well-intentioned individuals of an intellectual bent discussing ominously important issues that are germane to Humanity itself! Both you guys are my heroes. (For what it is worth I am a 72-year-old man who reveres "youngsters" like you guys).
Righight, the net is closing my brojas, somebody has to know de way out, and we’ll all think, ha! I knew it!” And the line will be perfectly straight, like the surface of a lake.
Excellent video with Andrew Seidel. You asked what can be done with the fantasy believers of Qanon, etc.? As a former Mad Man ad man I would suggest a simple answer: Targett the people who can listen, and then "sell" the truth: sell them on being a "real" American.
It’s pretty telling about people who are devote church-goers would rather vote for someone that indulges their emotions than another person that regularly goes to church. Faith is all about believing what you want to believe, so of course it primes people to accept lies, all you need to do is figure out what lies they want to hear.
Excellent and insightful interview. The christian nationalists have been politically successful in part because they are extremely motivated to vote and be politically engaged. For those of us who oppose their agenda, there is one thing that ALL of us can do: make sure that we vote in all elections, including primaries and runoffs.
A problem is that the scammers can lie and it takes a lot of work and time to counter the lie. Scammer: False Statement Truther: Lots of information showing the lie Public: Yawn, too much information. The lie is simple and easier.
Agree, when a second word like political or nationalist is attached to the word Christian, it immediately is no longer affiliated with that religion and describes something else, perhaps similar, perhaps completely different, convincing, and most likely corrupt.
Underneath 'fuck your feelings' - in print so huge it's too big to see, is written 'but MY feelings are more important than literally anything and if you dare trample on them I might just kill you.'
Another good read: "How to Understand Your Bible", by Manly T Hall, a 33nd degree Freemason. He points out the many contradictions that occur in the bible.
God is used by evangelicals as a weapon to support their views: "OH, YEAH? WELL, GOD IS ON MY SIDE, SO I'M RIGHT AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS WRONG!"
"God is used by evangelicals as a weapon to support their views..." Exactly. Which is all the evidence you need to understand they do not represent the faith they profess. There is little difference between them and suicide bombers that scream something about Allah before they detonate. Religion is a pretext.
@@jasonwhite6463 Other Christians fail too often to call them out on it. They get to run with the common perception of what Christians are supposed to be to other Americans.
@@caucasoidape8838 "Other Christians" do call them out but that does not get covered. To get attention you have to be crazy. Sanity and faith are not sexy enough.
When I was in fifth grade, in a public school, back in the early 1970s, we sang "Joshua Fought the Battle of Jericho" and "Ezekiel Saw The Wheel". Years later, I would realize that Ezekiel was having UFO encounters.
Rest assured, all the Christians in America will easily turn away from they’re claimed faith, the rest will probably get beheaded with all those brand new guillemots the gov has stored, clad with advertising just a nascar.
If you have not watched the documentary "The Family" on Netflix really made angry to see how far the tentacles of Christian nationalism has spread inside and outside politics.
As a catholic I was taught to lie. Confession every week meant you had to of sinned in the past and needed to confess. At 10 years old that meant you had to lie so I learned to lie until walked away at the age of 13.
@@riandraegon556 In my Anglo-Catholic parish in the Church of England fifty four years ago, the priest conducting the confirmation class I was in implied I could not be confirmed if I refused to go to Confession. I was eleven, and horribly well behaved. His campaign was quite abusive until my mother informed the curate she would address this with the bishop. The curate and the supervising Vicar of the Parish capitulated. The bishop was also the Vicar's father-in-law, so he presumably knew that such coercion wouldn't go down well. I didn't go to Confession, and I was confirmed. I am still an Anglican by the way, although I haven't always been so well behaved.
A Catholic mom told me about her young son's First Confession. The boy couldn't think of anything he had done wrong -- and the mother admitted to me that he was so well-behaved that this was reasonable -- so she told him flippantly to tell the priest that he had stolen a car! Well, that's exactly what the boy did! The priest was pretty baffled!
Chris Hedges on his book American Fascists:Christian Right War On America talks about tha Evangelical movement influencing U.S. politics since the Early 80's.
I would like to see a debate between Andrew Seidel and conservative RUclips personality, and author, Ben Shapiro. Shapiro is a strong advocate in the Judeo-Christian myth; he believes the U.S. was founded on "conservative, Judeo-Christian values", and if was not for such "values", the Western World, and the New World would not have progressed and become industrial, developed nations, modern civilizations. Let Andrew Seidel and Ben Shapiro know a debate between them would be a great event.
As long as Andrew gets to speak his piece, I think it is best to get that out to an audience who otherwise wouldn't hear it. The goal isn't to convince Shapiro.
I’d love to see it. Seidel would give Ben Shabibo such an intellectual thrashing. That is, if Ben would actually engage and not rip off his microphone and stomp off because his opponent won’t follow a script.
I was so pleased to run across this video option of U2 fellows speaking on the subject, on RUclips this morning before I have to go to work. U2 both articulate your points so well it's a very enjoyable listen. Thank you so much. Good health to you both and your families
The "Declaration of Independence" is NOT a binding legal document that governs the United States. It was, essentially, a letter to the king saying "bugger off mate."
Wow! this video really resonates with me. I appreciate your objective and factual input. I was raised to be a Christian...I know how to read and think for myself now. It is too bad that many of the Christians I know and have known have not read the Bible: American history or the Constitution for themselves. IF they did, they might be aware of the Old Testament genocide etc. BTW: If the IRS cracks down on abusing tax-exempt status there will be Christians screaming how they are being persecuted. Jesus allegedly said to "obey the laws of the land".
"Jesus allegedly said to "obey the laws of the land"." Well yes, but in a way that modern evangelicals will call into question, or attempt to deflect. First they'll try to say he was only talking about taxes, even though the context does lead to the broader interpretation that he was talking about obeying the existing ruling authority. *** Paying Taxes to Caesar *** Mat 22:17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?" Mat 22:18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Mat 22:19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, Mat 22:20 and he asked them, "Whose image is this? And whose inscription?" Mat 22:21 "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Mar 12:14 They came to him and said, "Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren't swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not? Mar 12:15 Should we pay or shouldn't we?" But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. "Why are you trying to trap me?" he asked. "Bring me a denarius and let me look at it." Mar 12:16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, "Whose image is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Mar 12:17 Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him. Luk 20:21 So the spies questioned him: "Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Luk 20:22 Is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" Luk 20:23 He saw through their duplicity and said to them, Luk 20:24 "Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription are on it?" "Caesar's," they replied. Luk 20:25 He said to them, "Then give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Even if you can get them to agree that the above meant they are to follow the laws of the rulers they will make the exception that they only have to obey man in those laws that don't cause them to disobey "God's" commands, and then go about beating you over the head with all types and kinds of out of context scriptures proving man's law to be contrary to "God's". Even though the Bible never actually makes that exception or exemption. What is more telling is that the Epistles attributed to the Apostles Peter and Paul are more direct and explicit on the subject. And they were written during the reigns of rulers MUCH, MUCH more 'nasty' than anything the rabid religious Right has to deal with today. And NEITHER of them make ANY exception or exemption. Both clearly put Christians in the crosshairs about times when man's laws might contradict "God's". With double jeopardy on the man's law side. If you obey the law of man that contradicts "God" then you disobey "God", BUT if you disobey the offending law of man you are in violation of the commands of "God" to obey the authorities. At one time the term for that was "Catch 22" or "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" *** Submission to Authority: *** (1st & 2nd Peter are traditionally accepted as having been authored by the Apostle Peter, BUT modern Scholars shine doubt on that. Especially since by tradition Peter died in Rome under Nero around 66-68 C.E. and both epistles were authored late 1st to mid 2nd Century... long after he died (if he ever really lived at all)) 1Pe 2:13 SUBMIT YOURSELVES FOR THE LORD'S SAKE TO EVERY HUMAN AUTHORITY: WHETHER IT BE THE EMPEROR, AS THE SUPREME AUTHORITY, 1Pe 2:14 OR TO GOVERNORS, WHO ARE SENT BY HIM TO PUNISH THOSE WHO DO WRONG AND TO COMMEND THOSE WHO DO RIGHT. 1Pe 2:15 For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of the foolish. 1Pe 2:16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God's slaves. 1Pe 2:17 SHOW PROPER RESPECT TO EVERYONE, love your fellow believers, fear God, HONOR THE EMPEROR. 1Pe 2:18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. (The epistles of Titus and Romans were allegedly authored by the Apostle Paul, although there is some scholarly doubts about their true authors) Tit 3:1 REMIND THE PEOPLE TO BE SUBJECT TO THE RULERS AND AUTHORITIES, TO BE OBEDIENT, to be ready to do whatever is good, Tit 3:2 TO SLANDER NO ONE, TO BE PEACEFUL AND CONSIDERATE, AND ALWAYS BE GENTLE TOWARD EVERYONE. Tit 3:3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. Paul puts it best in Romans 13:2, if you rebel (or disobey) those in authority, they you are rebelling (disobeying) that which "God" has instituted. And you will be brought to account for it. I would go so far as to add that voting (and by extension campaigning) against the candidate that won is the same as voting against "God's" choice, and that voting (or campaigning at all) is showing that you don't trust that "God" can make his choice win. A severe showing of a serious "lack of faith" in "God" Rom 13:1 LET EVERYONE BE SUBJECT TO THE GOVERNING AUTHORITIES, FOR THERE NO AUTHORITY EXCEPT THAT WHICH GOD HAS ESTABLISHED. THE AUTHORITIES THAT EXIST HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED BY GOD. Rom 13:2 Consequently, WHOEVER REBELS AGAINST THE AUTHORITY IS REBELLING AGAINST WHAT GOD HAS INSTITUTED, AND THOSE WHO DO SO WILL BRING JUDGMENT ON THEMSELVES. Rom 13:3 For RULERS HOLD NO TERROR FOR THOSE WHO DO RIGHT, BUT FOR THOSE WHO DO WRONG. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. Rom 13:4 For THE ONE IN AUTHORITY IS GOD'S SERVANT FOR YOUR GOOD. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Rom 13:5 Therefore, IT IS NECESSARY TO SUBMIT TO THE AUTHORITIES, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. Rom 13:6 THIS IS ALSO WHY YOU PAY TAXES, for THE AUTHORITIES ARE GOD'S SERVANTS, who give their full time to governing. Rom 13:7 Give to everyone what you owe: IF YOU OWE TAXES, PAY TAXES; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Essentially though, nothing you can say will challenge them, or make them change their mind. They aren't really Christians, they're people using religion for political gain. They don't care about what "God" actually says, and they don't really believe or have faith. If they did they would trust that this "God's" plan would come about regardless of the actions of any politics or activities of man. They wouldn't be afraid of "communists, socialists, leftists, liberals, atheists, democrats, gays and lesbians or the rest of the LGBT community". They certainly wouldn't be fearing the actions of "devils and demons" or "Satan" because they'd 'trust in God'. The mere fact that they believe they have something to fear from those groups shows they don't believe their "God" is powerful enough to enforce his will or put his "plan" into place against those forces. I.E. their "God" is a powerless but sadistic and misogynistic impotent dickhead.
@@xstatic-ow5mz the concept of the book that the show is based on is basically "what if christian nationalists succeeded in rewriting society". It's in the same vein as 1984. They are critiques of ideologies with all the associated baggage of said ideology. So if the ideology is racist, then the book is going to protray racism, and therefore the show will too.
Superbly recognized and described how religion, particularly 'Christianity' in our nation, has intrusively become a dominating force into our once separate political structure. The consequences have abetted a drastic, if not severe, separatist 'Us vs. Them' syndrome within our once-healthier population. It has encroached upon many of our legal systems by misinterpretation of our Constitution.
Call me crazy but I will fight a holy war but if God @ government mix we are all screwed no books censorship extreme and if your not like them good as dead sharia law but for Christians...@ I shouldn't be promoting it .
I hope we can stay that way. A friend of mine dragged me to a PPC (People's Part of Canada) rally a couple of weeks ago, and five minutes into the opening speech I was thinking: WTF?!! There isn't much chance of them winning the upcoming election, but a lot of their supporters are going to be voting Conservative as the next best thing. To quote Rick Mercer: In Canada, after all, we don't elect people to office so much as throw them out."
Great talk! I love Andrew Seidel, and if you haven't read his book - get it! It was the best book I read last year. I can't wait until he comes out with another one.
@@goldleaf3333 Actually, if you read the Bible, you'll find that it was mostly people killing each other. And often justifying it by having "asked God" (aka drawn lots) first. And, okay, God killing the firstborn of Egypt. But mostly, if God kills, it's killing wicked people.
it was never framed as that... it was framed as the people were evil so god destroyed them for their wickedness. or god loved his people and he gave them a land to live in, but he also commanded them to clear them out.
which still doesn't sound great, but in the headspace we were in, we just accepted that it was a good and loving thing to do. because yeah, god was perfect and he could do no wrong.
The first Europeans to arrive in the Americas and stick around were the Spaniards. The first British and Dutch arrivals were companies who came here to turn a profit.The Virginia Company (Jamestown Colony) The Plymouth Company and the Dutch West Indies company.
And the French? What about the natives? The exit and? That seafaring race that inhabited the Baja peninsula population 58000 ? Red hairs giants ? A race full of Roman Greco Architects? Mormons? The British? Christopher Columbus never set foot on the North American mainland, he landed at Haiti where the native race had already been defeated and enslaved?
I'm 65 and have been totally expecting this. My first introduction to the Republican party was a bunch of mad, screaming, hating people. That's when I decided to be Democratic and they have only gotten worse since 1973.
Even though I'm a Bernie Sanders type of Democrat, I love that Joe Biden is currently our president and will support him as he is doing so well right now, doing most of the progressive things Bernie would have done if he were nominated and elected.
@@thehalloweenheavymetalwarrior I agree. Biden wasn't my first or even my 10th choice. But I'm glad he's in the White House now and I hope he does well. I also hope to see a President Harris in 4 years. Look at all of the nations that have or have had female heads of state. Heck we're 33 years Pakistan on that score.
I just wish I had a better reason to vote Democrat than the fact that I'm voting against Republicans. Unfortunately, as I see it, both parties are controlled by a relative handful of rich guys. That's just more obvious with Republicans.
The republican party is the thoughts and prayers party. If anything bad happens, "our thoughts and prayers are with you" In other words, we don't give a fuck about you. It's your own problem. Deal with it yourself. I'm ashamed to have once been a conservative Christian who was a republican.
It's pretty much brain-dead and on life support, awaiting full organ failure. The law does not matter with regard to leadership. The Constitution is a document of law, and in this context, it does not matter. A country is based on the foundation of law, and since the law no longer matters, the country also no longer matters. At this point, we are just "technically" America, going through the motions. Those "public servants" earn on average $174,000 per year, they get rich from lobbyists and other grifts, and they have the best healthcare that we, the people, can afford. They're eating caviar and drinking Moet on the yacht, while we kill each other for a loaf of bread. The way our culture is structured is anti-family, starting with the cost of everything. And while leadership sends these costs out of control, they point at gay people, immigrants, and others with no power and blame them for it. I am 56 years old, and have been watching this happen since 1980. We are currently witnessing America on its death bed, with no possibility of recovery or recouperation. I agree, and also feel sick to my stomach. I take no joy in making this observation.
@Glenn Heston The whole Middle East shows you the middle finger as a response to "did nothing" - your country waged almost three decades of war down there and all you have accomplished is create more enemies.
@Glenn Heston well how much oil has been transferred to US til now? normally if you want to run your tanks on foreign continents, you should take oil-factories. Everyone would take taktical (there was nothing economical in this) areas first.
I love Seidel's notation about the actual words in the Declaration of Independence...essentially saying, "We deny that the leader of any nation rules by Divine Right! It is by the will of the _people_ that any ruler...or representative...should wield political power". I only wish the _people_ (across the board) were better educated in matters of Science, History, Economics, Reason, and Rhetoric...and less susceptible to the Dunning Kruger Effect. I also love that Seth mentioned the author of the Pledge of Allegiance. Not only was he a Socialist; he was a Baptist minister who _intentionally_ omitted any God references, specifically so patriotic American citizenship could be open to _all_ people. Important Side Note: He wrote it for a Columbus Day event, celebrating a man who, in more recent years, has become recognized as...well...not so much the hero Americans used to believe. Follow Up: Imagine if Americans knew the salute that Francis Bellamy specifically recommended. (Of course, Hitler was only three years old at the time, but still...)
i cant believe ive been listening Seth for i think nearly 10 years ... i stumbled across his second podcast while still anonymous..i will shake his hand one day and give proper thanks..
@@TheThinkingAtheist thats a true story sir from mission british columbia canada...i think i found it just going through atheist podcasts on i tunes..i knew there were others like me i just didnt realize how many... thanks for the short response...makes the world seem a little smaller..and if youre still reading..i still have my sense of humor..i am good friends with my ex-very-evangelical-wife...i collect vinyl albums and sometimes just buy a box... the last box had Petra's debut album...1977...gave it to her for valentine's..
It's fascinating to reflect on the fact that the very first Christians begged the Roman government to separate religion from state, but as soon as Emperor Constantine made Christianity legal those same tolerance-preaching Christians turned away from religious tolerance and promptly began attacking and actively destroying everything that wasn't viewed as "Christian". It's also interesting to note that Constantine was likely attracted to Christianity because he believed it would help him unify the Roman Empire, but was instead disappointed to find Christians arguing amongst themselves about whether or not Jesus was a god. Hence, he called for the First Council of Nicaea - and a second one after that. How very odd indeed.
Yes, and some 1700 years after the Bible was canonized Christians still argue with each other over the meaning of certain parts, mainly Revelation. I've suggested to some of them (via RUclips comments) that they can't convert heathens because they're too busy trying to convert each other.
Excellent, accurate evaluation of the Christian nationalism. unfortunately these 'Christian' beliefs create increased anxiety amongst the group of individuals with whom I associate. Be Well! Mad
Great discussion! Just yesterday, I listened to a news report on NPR's Morning Edition about White evangelical influence in current politics, and its affects on followers. The news report is an 11-minute long audio and titled, "New Survey Shows 3 in 5 White Evangelicals Say Joe Biden wasn't Legimately Elected". Phew, the title alone irritates me 🙄.
That was a really interesting comparison to Jehad. My fundamentalist Christian sister once admitted to me that she was jealous of the Muslim faith because their followers were willing to do anything for their God. My chin dropped to my feet.
Andrew I couldn't agree more about the Trump era exposing the weaknesses of our government. Now its up to us to figure out how to fix them. Where would you start?
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature the heart of a heartless world, the spirit of a spiritless situation, it is the opium of the sufferer, of the people... The demand to give up it's illusions is the demand to give up those conditions that requires illusions... Criticism has plucked the flowers from the chain, not so that men and women may wear the chain without consolidation, but rather that they may break the chain and cull the living flower." - Karl Marx (The Contribution to the Critique of Hegal's Philosophy of Right)
@@leftnutt9730 thank you. This may not land for the OP, unfortunately. I imagine the response, if any, will be..."China"..."Venezuela"..."North Korea"..."Cuba"..."Russia"..."Palestine"...
@@leftnutt9730 actually, pre-1954 Iran was an actual legitimate democracy, complete with some women in bikinis and others in positions of real power. But then, at the behest of BP oil the west came in 1953 and our CIA assassinated duly elected president Mossadegh (who dared to nationalize that nations oil and shared the profits with the plebs) and thus brought "real" democracy to Iran by installing a good and holy shah (good, because he allowed the west to control the oil instead of Iran itself) ... well this ended in 1979 when the now radicalized masses took over and the rest we more or less know.
Right on! I was raised by, in effect, Christian Nationalists. My mother loved Rush Dooney and a certain Pastor who pushed a Calvinistic worldview. It was a very tense household!🙄
Thank you Seth & Andrew for taking on this subject 🙏🙏. I understand it much better now & get how dangerous Christian Nationalism is in the USA & around the world as they move further out of country to push their cause!!
Religion, especially the far right evangelism orientation is deteriorating badly. However, history shows that any philosophy or governance that begins to lose power will have the remaining members double down in confrontation and violence. We are seeing this today.
I can only hope you're right. I've been trying to figure out whether the extremist religions are having a resurgence or are in their violent death throes, very much hoping it is the latter. My other hope is that the literalists, like Creationists, will get so ridiculously untenable that they will drive people away and rouse their opposition to their own detriment. It is unfortunate that, if the end is near for them, they have to act out with such disruptive desperation. But I think we have another half centure of this dangerous idiocy before it is resolved.
@@derreckwalls7508 - I know what you are saying. History suggests that when groups that have been in power or who have tasted power become increasingly aggressive when that power begins to wane. Additionally, members of those groups also tend to become more hardened. The hope is that this becomes less potent in subsequent generations.
@@douglasrasmussen480 Creationism's denial of science is one of the main factors in my becoming atheist. Science is making the literal interpretation of the Bible sound more and more ridiculous every day, and I think that has made non literalists rethink their beliefs as well. Without an irrational belief in the supernatural and with a scientific explanation for the natural world there really isn't much use for archaic religious delusions. I think deep down that awareness doesn't escape even radical believers, and it subconsciously terrifies them.
@@derreckwalls7508 - I have done extensive research into the bible and Christianity since being embarrassed several decades ago by a Baptist minister who used the bible to intimidate what was originally areligious belief on my part. I have been for some time now an atheist and the more I know of Christianity and the bible the more it validates the religion as based on false history, inaccurate historical connections, impossible physics, non-existent persons and events, failed prophecies and outright evil. Do some research and you will find Christian apologetics simply do not hold up.
Apparently the description drop down doesn't fully include the proffered info, here's the rest... Andrew's channel is: AndrewLSeidel on RUclips, natch.
...and North Korea conquering America is also technically possible -- imagine no military and everyone welcoming the invading army in -- but there is no way either will happen.
7:20 I have made the same observation. Religious beliefs have conditioned us to accept ideas and beliefs in spite of contradictions and the lack of evidence. When you wonder how people can believe in insane conspiracies without a scintilla of evidence, I consider how religion has trained us ignore reasonable questions but to simply accept beliefs on faith alone. Religion has even elevated having faith alone to a virtue.
![ATEEZ(에이티즈) - [GOLDEN HOUR : Part.2] Preview](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X4PfgRPBUVo/mqdefault.jpg)
Listening to channels like yours gave me the courage to leave my Christian nationalist family and build a new way of life and healing for me and my child. Thank you.
Good luck to you. Leaving your family can't be easy.
Good luck.
I never had that problem. I was born without a god concept and never been indoctrinated in some sort of religion. I remained my whole 64 life without a god concept.
But then again if you live in secular Holland nobody gives a damn if you’re an atheist. Thank god. Oeps 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I hope you will enjoy the wide secular world and all it has to offer. Congratulations on your freedom
Congratulations, Rachelle. That is a truly impressive achievement.
Always remember that life is a buffet and religion is like only having a bowl of rice. A good tool in walking in the garden of life is to laugh when there is joy, and laugh harder when there are challenges...that is a difficult habit to work on, but try it out a few times and watch the results.
“The religious mind is primed to accept lies.” Exactly!
Christians have already cleared space in their brains to accept religious delusion. Should be pretty easy for them to accept any other nonsense.
Only a little bit more than non religious minds. Deception is built into the human condition as a survival mechanism.
@@NeverTalkToCops1 Good point.
@@NeverTalkToCops1 Your point is true but I would absolutely argue it's more than just a 'little bit'. It is a systematic teaching that there is something beyond logic and reason.
That includes the deluded atheists. DNA coded itself 🤦🤦
Thank you for the kind words everyone.
Love listening to you explain the realities of our laws. Keep it up.
Your work is very, very, very important.
i try to watch every show you are on..think you are brilliant......greetings from your ex masters in the UK
Great job as always. I know they do not talk about the deep christian element fundamental within the insurrection in the mainstream media, glad you guys do.
But as someone from Jamaica and then the UK, now here, I always wondered about the deep reverence to the constitution, when life and times obviously change. That thing should be forever changing in my view.
Right on!
Jan 6 = America's Peasants Crusade
Will USA Democracy go same as Cathars?
Christian Nationalists Infiltrated
Legislative, Administrative and Judiciary
FEDS, STATES and Local Govt!
It’s better to be a warrior for good than a warrior for god. What a great line
What a morally vapid statement. The arrogance is just staggering.
You can have Andrew on anytime! He’s great! 😃
And cute
@@DonniePalmer57 Yes! Definitely a cutie!
Andrew Seidel is a person who speaks with knowledge but also with conviction. Thank you for having him in your show. I think he has a great future as one of the informed person who calmly and judiciously speaks the truth. Great for him.
"The Religious Mind is primed to accept lies..."
Wow
That explains A LOT
As a former Christian, I agree.
Cue the Q 😹
I think it's only necessarily true when you can tie the lie you want to push to their religion, however tenuously. We've just entered an era when politics are ties to the evangelical faith, which makes influencing their beliefs about political facts that much easier. But even atheists are primed to accept lies and bad takes. As humans we're not great at spotting lies and we all engage in motivated reasoning.
One of my favorite rant topics. Glad to have reenforcement.
@@PARebecca That's what I was going to say. If one can willingly accept the God lie, one can be counted on to accept, nearly anything.
Two of my favorite people! Andrew Seidel and Seth Andrews!
Backatcha bro!
Andrew Andrews Seth Seidel would be a cooler duo ;)
@Lee Jones Set is the name of a god, didn't know seth was a demon, please elaborate?
What do you think about removing non-profit, tax free status from any church that advocates for political issues and representatives. The laws are in place. I say enforce the law.
As much as many of these evangelical churches rake in they owe 4-5 years back taxes as well.
Religions are not supposed to have tax exemptions, in the first place. Religious exemptions violate separation of church and state, and equal protection.
_"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history._ (See the cases in which negatives were put by J. M. on two bills passd by Congs and his signature withheld from another. _See also attempt in Kentucky_ for example, _where it was proposed to exempt Houses of Worship from taxes."_ - James Madison, Detached Memoranda [emphasis added]
press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions64.html
Churches should have to declare income and expenditure like anyone else. They should however be allowed to claim for items which help others.. and prove the help provided. Its the biggest con in the western world.. in fact ALL the world.
What about applying laws to social media if they have anti-American practices like censorship?
Spot on!!
I’m from the UK, I’m delighted that, even though our politicians are frequently useless, we at least keep religion out of our politics. I am just shocked at how this religious lunacy permeates your political system. I wish you the very best of luck in getting out of this situation.
"we at least keep religion out of our politics".
Have you not seen how many clergymen get a seat in the house of lords by virtue of their religious position? We've still a way to go yet.
And don't get me started on state funded religious schools...!
@@bakedbean37 Thank you for pointing that out.
A dose of Jimmy Carr, mostly mixed with 8 out of 10 cats does Countdown, and the world is full of fun again.
@@bakedbean37 25 Bishops sit out of 691 in the House of Lords, yes I agree it’s ludicrous. However, the House of Lords cannot connect any legislation, it can only amend legislation sent through from the House of Commons. In the event the House of Lords tries to block legislation from the House of Commons, they cannot do so, the commons can overrule them. So whilst it seems ludicrously anachronistic that there are 25 bishops in the House of Lords it hardly interferes with our political system. If you remember some years ago Nick Clegg when deputy prime minister announced that he was an atheist, well he didn’t really announce it he was asked a question and he answered the question. It’s caused barely a ripple in the political establishment, or the press, or his support base. Imagine in America if the Vice president announced that he or she was an atheist, there would be some sort of meltdown. I agree about religious schools, but that’s not a political institution.
Religion out of politics in the UK? It is a state run church affair of note.
OH, the IRONY of those "Fuck Your Feelings" t-shirts...
The T-Shirts were bad enough. Locally here we have to sit in traffic with their jacked up trucks flying Trump flags & they have had their tailgates or entire trucks wrapped with the "Trump 2020 F*ck Your Feelings!" Written over the American flag.
You can find the truck wraps on Amazon. And they don't care if you have kids in the car, they still drive aggressively. If they pull up near you at a light you know to put your windows up because they have a system on their diesel trucks that lets them dial how big the cloud of black smoke is that they blow out when the light changes.
But yet, they are letting their feelings say it was stolen, when clearly it was not stolen, since there were no evidence of it, as 2020 proved to be the most secure Election in history.
@@Mosaic_Crone I call them "Dumb F*ck Trucks". I won't discuss how they correlate to penis size on this forum, but yeah, WTF????
@@Mosaic_Crone Another good reason to disallow 8 yr old children from driving. LOL
d lolol
This is the most cogent and relevant conversation I have ever heard about the state of our nation in the current moment. I humbly thank you both for introducing objective facts and rational dialogue in to the national conversation. I can only hope that you will be broadly heard.
And just as broadly ignored.
Christian nationalism is part of a predication over 150 years ago and because of the bible prophecies. Start video at 13:30 ruclips.net/video/yxMVMfYQ86s/видео.html
All denominations will be deceived in the coming together, but there are remnant people who will not. And yes it’s against the constitution. Watch until the end of the video. It’s an overview of a deeper study really.
Here’s a basic bible study: ruclips.net/video/4y3tDILQFhE/видео.html
Frankly, I don't want to unify with fascists.
Well you seem too nice anyway?
I hope you are not one of those people who consider everyone who voted for trump a fascist. Because, if that is the case and you don't want to unify with roughly 50% of all americans, you are in for a rough ride.
@@onesquirrel2713 Not every Hitler supporter was fascist early on either.
@@DavidPerez-de4ib I am not nice in the same way you are not bright.
@@onesquirrel2713 You say that as if I give a shit.
My father was a Republican. His family had been Republicans since before the Civil War. When George W. began to mix politics and religion my father quit the GOP. Dad died in October at 93 and I am so glad he missed the treasonous crazyness following the election it would have made him so miserable.
So sorry for your loss.
Thank you guys. More of this is needed to inform those who don't understand the threat that Christian nationalism poses.
I'm a Christian and I admit that religion and state should be kept far apart. Jan 6 is a good example of why the belief in 'the chosen of god' is dangerous
@Move_I_Got_This the same man who refused to be acknowledged as the chosen of God. If people want to believe it then that is their right as an American, but when they act as though violent actions and acts of treason as justified based on those beliefs then they are crossing a line.and throughout history politicians have used religion to control the actions of believers by taking advantage of their beliefs. I have no problem with believers, I myself am one, but I admit that a skilled public speaker with a hold over the faithful is a very dangerous thing.
As great as it is to read your comment and being honest about seeing the need of separation of church and state, there are millions of Christians that would say you aren't Christian for holding that belief, you don't have God in your heart or you never truly accepted Jesus as your savior. And its because there is that division, even in your own camp mind you, that makes religious beliefs dangerous, the teachings draw a perverbial line in the sand on every single moral or ethical act one can be involved in and if your not on the correct side your burning in hell. Why are you a Christian? What is most convincing about Christianity opposed to another religion?
@@markdwolf3198 my belief doesn't require their approval. If they want to judge me then they can go on right ahead. Why do I believe? Because I chose to. And here is what a lot of Christians forget: there is the sinner, the heathen, the harlot, the pagan and the nonbelievers. And if Jesus was walking today he would have sat down, talked to them, healed them and loved each and every single one of them. The only people he showed any hate to was the people who made money off religion.
@@smity739 It is good that you made your way to Seth's channel and I hope you keep coming back for more great content! I really appreciate your open-mindedness because it gives me hope that _all_ religious people will one day exhibit this level emotional intelligence.
@Move_I_Got_This Where is the source for that quote if you would't mind ?
Great conversation. I personally want a more secular society, i know that it will be better for us all.
Excellent! I can'''''t wait until this Truth actually reaches the people who are clueless about how they are being duped.
Just gotta say it is so refreshing to hear good-hearted, rational thinking, well-intentioned individuals of an intellectual bent discussing ominously important issues that are germane to Humanity itself! Both you guys are my heroes. (For what it is worth I am a 72-year-old man who reveres "youngsters" like you guys).
thank you for speaking out against this dystopian Idocracy world we live in right now
Righight, the net is closing my brojas, somebody has to know de way out, and we’ll all think, ha! I knew it!” And the line will be perfectly straight, like the surface of a lake.
Excellent video with Andrew Seidel. You asked what can be done with the fantasy believers of Qanon, etc.? As a former Mad Man ad man I would suggest a simple answer: Targett the people who can listen, and then "sell" the truth: sell them on being a "real" American.
It’s pretty telling about people who are devote church-goers would rather vote for someone that indulges their emotions than another person that regularly goes to church. Faith is all about believing what you want to believe, so of course it primes people to accept lies, all you need to do is figure out what lies they want to hear.
"You are very special people" ... yeah, special needs mostly.
@@bladerunner3314
You mean "riding the short bus"?
@@bladerunner3314 Not fair to actual special people.
@@caucasoidape8838 yeah, I use my autism to mildly annoy people and accidentally destroy things, not for evil!
You guys ARE awesome. I feel like I am not going crazy with individuals like you gentlemen.
Excellent and insightful interview. The christian nationalists have been politically successful in part because they are extremely motivated to vote and be politically engaged. For those of us who oppose their agenda, there is one thing that ALL of us can do: make sure that we vote in all elections, including primaries and runoffs.
Two of my favorite people. thank you for your hard work with what you both do!
A problem is that the scammers can lie and it takes a lot of work and time to counter the lie.
Scammer: False Statement
Truther: Lots of information showing the lie
Public: Yawn, too much information. The lie is simple and easier.
It DOES seem your exposition is (sadly) just the way it works.
Absolutely
This imbalance is our fundamental problem. By the time you've put together your factual case against one lie, they've moved on to the next lie.
And I've seen many Internet atheists respond, TL:DNR
I guess the lie really is easier.
@@aristotelian3098 Pardon my ignorance... What is "TL:DNR"?
Seth I think you are amazing! I am a Christian, however I listen to you daily. I appreciate your views and the way you express them.
♥️
All I will say is keep on listening...☺
Interesting! Can you explain why you (still) believe in a god?
You must be having doubts about your faith if you're listening to an atheist show.
Read the book titled The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhem Reich to understand political christians
Agree, when a second word like political or nationalist is attached to the word Christian, it immediately is no longer affiliated with that religion and describes something else, perhaps similar, perhaps completely different, convincing, and most likely corrupt.
Underneath 'fuck your feelings' - in print so huge it's too big to see, is written 'but MY feelings are more important than literally anything and if you dare trample on them I might just kill you.'
Indeed, and deep in the ny-wash. swamp. Judeo christian "god rule" its already well statist stablished, needs to get out
Another good read: "How to Understand Your Bible", by Manly T Hall, a 33nd degree Freemason. He points out the many contradictions that occur in the bible.
Add to that The Republican Brain
"Tide goes in, tide goes out! You can't explain that!"
Such a smart man.
"F..king magnets, how do they work?"
Gravitational pull of the Moon. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_force
@@gorillaguerillaDK The Electro - magnetic forces. Study physics. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetism
@@davidcadman4468 Man... it's a quote from Bill O'Reilly. Something he actually said to a guest live on air. My "Smart man" comment was sarcasm.
@@davidcadman4468
Then, how did the moon get there! Checkmate!
/s ;)
God is used by evangelicals as a weapon to support their views: "OH, YEAH? WELL, GOD IS ON MY SIDE, SO I'M RIGHT AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS WRONG!"
It's strange how everyone thinks that God agrees with THEM, and that everyone _else_ is wrong.
"God is used by evangelicals as a weapon to support their views..."
Exactly. Which is all the evidence you need to understand they do not represent the faith they profess. There is little difference between them and suicide bombers that scream something about Allah before they detonate. Religion is a pretext.
@@jasonwhite6463 Other Christians fail too often to call them out on it. They get to run with the common perception of what Christians are supposed to be to other Americans.
@@caucasoidape8838 "Other Christians" do call them out but that does not get covered. To get attention you have to be crazy. Sanity and faith are not sexy enough.
@@jasonwhite6463 Sanity and faith are opposing concepts.
When I was in fifth grade, in a public school, back in the early 1970s, we sang "Joshua Fought the Battle of Jericho" and "Ezekiel Saw The Wheel". Years later, I would realize that Ezekiel was having UFO encounters.
Revelation is a record of a very bad trip .
Loved the Robert Ingersoll quote! I love, love, love that guy! His beautiful words are inspirational.
Seidel is always a breath of fresh air.
Two of my ultimate favorite guys, Andrew and Seth 💜
Seth, thank you for addressing this issue. In this day and age, American politics CANNOT be separated from the crazy evangelical base😣😣😢😢
Rest assured, all the Christians in America will easily turn away from they’re claimed faith, the rest will probably get beheaded with all those brand new guillemots the gov has stored, clad with advertising just a nascar.
@@DavidPerez-de4ib LMAO
Great conversation! Thanks Andrew and Seth!!!
I can listen to you talking for an hour and not get bored. Wow.
Written in 1982 - The New Subversives: The Anti-Americanism of the Religious Right. Daniel C Maguire.
It's very refreshing to have all this truth so wonderfully articulated. Thank you!
If you have not watched the documentary "The Family" on Netflix really made angry to see how far the tentacles of Christian nationalism has spread inside and outside politics.
If a politician ran on a religious platform in Canada he/she wouldn't get very far.
thanks!b this is exactly the information everyone in the us needs to learn/know!!!
I love Andrew Seidel. He is the guy we should be hearing right now. Thank you Seth for this conversation
As a catholic I was taught to lie. Confession every week meant you had to of sinned in the past and needed to confess. At 10 years old that meant you had to lie so I learned to lie until walked away at the age of 13.
Can identify with that
That exact thing happened to me.
@@riandraegon556 In my Anglo-Catholic parish in the Church of England fifty four years ago, the priest conducting the confirmation class I was in implied I could not be confirmed if I refused to go to Confession. I was eleven, and horribly well behaved. His campaign was quite abusive until my mother informed the curate she would address this with the bishop. The curate and the supervising Vicar of the Parish capitulated. The bishop was also the Vicar's father-in-law, so he presumably knew that such coercion wouldn't go down well. I didn't go to Confession, and I was confirmed. I am still an Anglican by the way, although I haven't always been so well behaved.
A Catholic mom told me about her young son's First Confession. The boy couldn't think of anything he had done wrong -- and the mother admitted to me that he was so well-behaved that this was reasonable -- so she told him flippantly to tell the priest that he had stolen a car! Well, that's exactly what the boy did! The priest was pretty baffled!
Andrew Seidel, your analysis is spot on.
This was more serious and factual than I expected. Thanks
I've been watching this movement grow and flex since the early days of the Seven Hundred Club. Like a storm cloud in the horizon.
American Taliban.
Raphael "Ted" Cruz - part of Y'all kayduh.
@@onedaya_martian1238
LOL!
Emphasis on the "duh"...
Chris Hedges on his book American Fascists:Christian Right War On America talks about tha Evangelical movement influencing U.S. politics since the Early 80's.
The Roman Emperor Constantine used Christianity to unite the empire, but it still ended up collapsing.
Constantine's Roman Catholic Church has survived to this day. Just what's hidden in the Vatican Library ?
I would like to see a debate between Andrew Seidel and conservative RUclips personality, and author, Ben Shapiro. Shapiro is a strong advocate in the Judeo-Christian myth; he believes the U.S. was founded on "conservative, Judeo-Christian values", and if was not for such "values", the Western World, and the New World would not have progressed and become industrial, developed nations, modern civilizations. Let Andrew Seidel and Ben Shapiro know a debate between them would be a great event.
Shapiro would just whine at hyperspeed, gish gallop and declare he had won the dabate, take a crap in his hand and fling that poop at the audience.
It would be pointless and Andrew wouldn't lower himself.
As long as Andrew gets to speak his piece, I think it is best to get that out to an audience who otherwise wouldn't hear it. The goal isn't to convince Shapiro.
Shapiro is a putz.
I’d love to see it. Seidel would give Ben Shabibo such an intellectual thrashing. That is, if Ben would actually engage and not rip off his microphone and stomp off because his opponent won’t follow a script.
I so appreciate this channel!
Andrew's book is a must read! Buy it!!!
Great book. Readable, and absolutely stuffed with notes on sources, nearly all of which are primary.
Thank you so much.
@@Ryansghost Thank you!
Ok I'll look for it in bookstores.
I was so pleased to run across this video option of U2 fellows speaking on the subject, on RUclips this morning before I have to go to work. U2 both articulate your points so well it's a very enjoyable listen. Thank you so much. Good health to you both and your families
The "Declaration of Independence" is NOT a binding legal document that governs the United States. It was, essentially, a letter to the king saying "bugger off mate."
Well stated.
Ha ha ha how true l
Thanks for sharing. I just checked out the book at the library. Looking forward to reading it.
Wow! this video really resonates with me. I appreciate your objective and factual input.
I was raised to be a Christian...I know how to read and think for myself now. It is too bad that many of the Christians I know and have known have not read the Bible: American history or the Constitution for themselves. IF they did, they might be aware of the Old Testament genocide etc.
BTW: If the IRS cracks down on abusing tax-exempt status there will be Christians screaming how they are being persecuted. Jesus allegedly said to "obey the laws of the land".
"Jesus allegedly said to "obey the laws of the land"." Well yes, but in a way that modern evangelicals will call into question, or attempt to deflect. First they'll try to say he was only talking about taxes, even though the context does lead to the broader interpretation that he was talking about obeying the existing ruling authority.
*** Paying Taxes to Caesar ***
Mat 22:17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?"
Mat 22:18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
Mat 22:19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius,
Mat 22:20 and he asked them, "Whose image is this? And whose inscription?"
Mat 22:21 "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
Mar 12:14 They came to him and said, "Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren't swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?
Mar 12:15 Should we pay or shouldn't we?" But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. "Why are you trying to trap me?" he asked. "Bring me a denarius and let me look at it."
Mar 12:16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, "Whose image is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied.
Mar 12:17 Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.
Luk 20:21 So the spies questioned him: "Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth.
Luk 20:22 Is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
Luk 20:23 He saw through their duplicity and said to them,
Luk 20:24 "Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription are on it?" "Caesar's," they replied.
Luk 20:25 He said to them, "Then give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
Even if you can get them to agree that the above meant they are to follow the laws of the rulers they will make the exception that they only have to obey man in those laws that don't cause them to disobey "God's" commands, and then go about beating you over the head with all types and kinds of out of context scriptures proving man's law to be contrary to "God's". Even though the Bible never actually makes that exception or exemption.
What is more telling is that the Epistles attributed to the Apostles Peter and Paul are more direct and explicit on the subject. And they were written during the reigns of rulers MUCH, MUCH more 'nasty' than anything the rabid religious Right has to deal with today. And NEITHER of them make ANY exception or exemption. Both clearly put Christians in the crosshairs about times when man's laws might contradict "God's". With double jeopardy on the man's law side. If you obey the law of man that contradicts "God" then you disobey "God", BUT if you disobey the offending law of man you are in violation of the commands of "God" to obey the authorities. At one time the term for that was "Catch 22" or "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't"
*** Submission to Authority: ***
(1st & 2nd Peter are traditionally accepted as having been authored by the Apostle Peter, BUT modern Scholars shine doubt on that. Especially since by tradition Peter died in Rome under Nero around 66-68 C.E. and both epistles were authored late 1st to mid 2nd Century... long after he died (if he ever really lived at all))
1Pe 2:13 SUBMIT YOURSELVES FOR THE LORD'S SAKE TO EVERY HUMAN AUTHORITY: WHETHER IT BE THE EMPEROR, AS THE SUPREME AUTHORITY,
1Pe 2:14 OR TO GOVERNORS, WHO ARE SENT BY HIM TO PUNISH THOSE WHO DO WRONG AND TO COMMEND THOSE WHO DO RIGHT.
1Pe 2:15 For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of the foolish.
1Pe 2:16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God's slaves.
1Pe 2:17 SHOW PROPER RESPECT TO EVERYONE, love your fellow believers, fear God, HONOR THE EMPEROR.
1Pe 2:18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
(The epistles of Titus and Romans were allegedly authored by the Apostle Paul, although there is some scholarly doubts about their true authors)
Tit 3:1 REMIND THE PEOPLE TO BE SUBJECT TO THE RULERS AND AUTHORITIES, TO BE OBEDIENT, to be ready to do whatever is good,
Tit 3:2 TO SLANDER NO ONE, TO BE PEACEFUL AND CONSIDERATE, AND ALWAYS BE GENTLE TOWARD EVERYONE.
Tit 3:3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
Paul puts it best in Romans 13:2, if you rebel (or disobey) those in authority, they you are rebelling (disobeying) that which "God" has instituted. And you will be brought to account for it. I would go so far as to add that voting (and by extension campaigning) against the candidate that won is the same as voting against "God's" choice, and that voting (or campaigning at all) is showing that you don't trust that "God" can make his choice win. A severe showing of a serious "lack of faith" in "God"
Rom 13:1 LET EVERYONE BE SUBJECT TO THE GOVERNING AUTHORITIES, FOR THERE NO AUTHORITY EXCEPT THAT WHICH GOD HAS ESTABLISHED. THE AUTHORITIES THAT EXIST HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED BY GOD.
Rom 13:2 Consequently, WHOEVER REBELS AGAINST THE AUTHORITY IS REBELLING AGAINST WHAT GOD HAS INSTITUTED, AND THOSE WHO DO SO WILL BRING JUDGMENT ON THEMSELVES.
Rom 13:3 For RULERS HOLD NO TERROR FOR THOSE WHO DO RIGHT, BUT FOR THOSE WHO DO WRONG. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
Rom 13:4 For THE ONE IN AUTHORITY IS GOD'S SERVANT FOR YOUR GOOD. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
Rom 13:5 Therefore, IT IS NECESSARY TO SUBMIT TO THE AUTHORITIES, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
Rom 13:6 THIS IS ALSO WHY YOU PAY TAXES, for THE AUTHORITIES ARE GOD'S SERVANTS, who give their full time to governing.
Rom 13:7 Give to everyone what you owe: IF YOU OWE TAXES, PAY TAXES; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
Essentially though, nothing you can say will challenge them, or make them change their mind. They aren't really Christians, they're people using religion for political gain. They don't care about what "God" actually says, and they don't really believe or have faith. If they did they would trust that this "God's" plan would come about regardless of the actions of any politics or activities of man. They wouldn't be afraid of "communists, socialists, leftists, liberals, atheists, democrats, gays and lesbians or the rest of the LGBT community". They certainly wouldn't be fearing the actions of "devils and demons" or "Satan" because they'd 'trust in God'. The mere fact that they believe they have something to fear from those groups shows they don't believe their "God" is powerful enough to enforce his will or put his "plan" into place against those forces. I.E. their "God" is a powerless but sadistic and misogynistic impotent dickhead.
Thanks guys needed that kind of topic.
"A Handmaid's Tale"
That show is racist. Black Lives Matter
@@xstatic-ow5mz ???
@@xstatic-ow5mz In what way?
@@xstatic-ow5mz
It's misogynistic, too. That's the point.
@@xstatic-ow5mz the concept of the book that the show is based on is basically "what if christian nationalists succeeded in rewriting society".
It's in the same vein as 1984. They are critiques of ideologies with all the associated baggage of said ideology. So if the ideology is racist, then the book is going to protray racism, and therefore the show will too.
Superbly recognized and described how religion, particularly 'Christianity' in our nation, has intrusively become a dominating force into our once separate political structure. The consequences have abetted a drastic, if not severe, separatist 'Us vs. Them' syndrome within our once-healthier population. It has encroached upon many of our legal systems by misinterpretation of our Constitution.
Call me crazy but I will fight a holy war but if God @ government mix we are all screwed no books censorship extreme and if your not like them good as dead sharia law but for Christians...@ I shouldn't be promoting it .
Among the best discussions on this topic that I have watched to date.
A vestige of important atheist conversation on youtube....sigh
God bless. I pray for you. I do learn from your point of you. ❤️
Religion is easy.......THINKING is difficult.
I've been meaning to pick up Andrew's book for a long while now. I think I'll finally order a copy tonight.
It’s fantastic!
Andrew absolutely nails it.
"The religious mind is primed to accept lies..."...so very true
“They know all the words of bohemian rhapsody, and so they should. “ God damn right they should!
Great interview involving two smart people. 👍
Happy to live in safe, sane and mostly secular Canada
I hope we can stay that way. A friend of mine dragged me to a PPC (People's Part of Canada) rally a couple of weeks ago, and five minutes into the opening speech I was thinking: WTF?!! There isn't much chance of them winning the upcoming election, but a lot of their supporters are going to be voting Conservative as the next best thing. To quote Rick Mercer: In Canada, after all, we don't elect people to office so much as throw them out."
Great talk! I love Andrew Seidel, and if you haven't read his book - get it! It was the best book I read last year. I can't wait until he comes out with another one.
Christians have been raised to believe there is such thing as a “morally just genocide.” But yeah, god is love, right?
"Thall shalt not kill", right? And yet their god is ALWAYS killing in their "good" book.
@@goldleaf3333 Actually, if you read the Bible, you'll find that it was mostly people killing each other. And often justifying it by having "asked God" (aka drawn lots) first.
And, okay, God killing the firstborn of Egypt.
But mostly, if God kills, it's killing wicked people.
it was never framed as that... it was framed as the people were evil so god destroyed them for their wickedness. or god loved his people and he gave them a land to live in, but he also commanded them to clear them out.
which still doesn't sound great, but in the headspace we were in, we just accepted that it was a good and loving thing to do. because yeah, god was perfect and he could do no wrong.
"Thou shalt not kill" but we need guns and the death penalty.
Thank both you fellows ... best company I've had for awhile ! Big Hugs and stay !
The first Europeans to arrive in the Americas and stick around were the Spaniards. The first British and Dutch arrivals were companies who came here to turn a profit.The Virginia Company (Jamestown Colony) The Plymouth Company and the Dutch West Indies company.
And the French? What about the natives? The exit and? That seafaring race that inhabited the Baja peninsula population 58000 ?
Red hairs giants ?
A race full of Roman Greco Architects? Mormons? The British?
Christopher Columbus never set foot on the North American mainland, he landed at Haiti where the native race had already been defeated and enslaved?
I learned a lot from this and look forward to learning more. Thanks for sharing links to his channel and more.
I'm 65 and have been totally expecting this. My first introduction to the Republican party was a bunch of mad, screaming, hating people. That's when I decided to be Democratic and they have only gotten worse since 1973.
So happy for you to have become a Democrat 💙💙🇺🇸🇺🇸💪💪
The Republican Party is a total joke, it's been a joke since the switch in the 60's going forward.
Even though I'm a Bernie Sanders type of Democrat, I love that Joe Biden is currently our president and will support him as he is doing so well right now, doing most of the progressive things Bernie would have done if he were nominated and elected.
@@thehalloweenheavymetalwarrior I agree. Biden wasn't my first or even my 10th choice. But I'm glad he's in the White House now and I hope he does well. I also hope to see a President Harris in 4 years. Look at all of the nations that have or have had female heads of state. Heck we're 33 years Pakistan on that score.
I just wish I had a better reason to vote Democrat than the fact that I'm voting against Republicans. Unfortunately, as I see it, both parties are controlled by a relative handful of rich guys. That's just more obvious with Republicans.
The republican party is the thoughts and prayers party. If anything bad happens, "our thoughts and prayers are with you"
In other words, we don't give a fuck about you. It's your own problem. Deal with it yourself.
I'm ashamed to have once been a conservative Christian who was a republican.
Just sub'd to Andrew's channel! So glad I tuned into this episode!!
This makes me sick to my stomach. I feel I'm watching the fall of democracy.
It's pretty much brain-dead and on life support, awaiting full organ failure.
The law does not matter with regard to leadership. The Constitution is a document of law, and in this context, it does not matter. A country is based on the foundation of law, and since the law no longer matters, the country also no longer matters.
At this point, we are just "technically" America, going through the motions. Those "public servants" earn on average $174,000 per year, they get rich from lobbyists and other grifts, and they have the best healthcare that we, the people, can afford.
They're eating caviar and drinking Moet on the yacht, while we kill each other for a loaf of bread.
The way our culture is structured is anti-family, starting with the cost of everything. And while leadership sends these costs out of control, they point at gay people, immigrants, and others with no power and blame them for it.
I am 56 years old, and have been watching this happen since 1980.
We are currently witnessing America on its death bed, with no possibility of recovery or recouperation. I agree, and also feel sick to my stomach. I take no joy in making this observation.
@Glenn Heston The whole Middle East shows you the middle finger as a response to "did nothing" - your country waged almost three decades of war down there and all you have accomplished is create more enemies.
You are. We are the Roman empire and we are the lucky (unlucky) generation that gets to witness it in real time.
@Glenn Heston well how much oil has been transferred to US til now? normally if you want to run your tanks on foreign continents, you should take oil-factories. Everyone would take taktical (there was nothing economical in this) areas first.
@Momszy Cat - It reminds me of the fall of Rome, except the Huns and the Barbarians are Republicans and Christian nationalists.
I love Seidel's notation about the actual words in the Declaration of Independence...essentially saying, "We deny that the leader of any nation rules by Divine Right! It is by the will of the _people_ that any ruler...or representative...should wield political power". I only wish the _people_ (across the board) were better educated in matters of Science, History, Economics, Reason, and Rhetoric...and less susceptible to the Dunning Kruger Effect. I also love that Seth mentioned the author of the Pledge of Allegiance. Not only was he a Socialist; he was a Baptist minister who _intentionally_ omitted any God references, specifically so patriotic American citizenship could be open to _all_ people. Important Side Note: He wrote it for a Columbus Day event, celebrating a man who, in more recent years, has become recognized as...well...not so much the hero Americans used to believe. Follow Up: Imagine if Americans knew the salute that Francis Bellamy specifically recommended. (Of course, Hitler was only three years old at the time, but still...)
i cant believe ive been listening Seth for i think nearly 10 years ... i stumbled across his second podcast while still anonymous..i will shake his hand one day and give proper thanks..
It would be my honor. - Seth
@@TheThinkingAtheist thats a true story sir from mission british columbia canada...i think i found it just going through atheist podcasts on i tunes..i knew there were others like me i just didnt realize how many... thanks for the short response...makes the world seem a little smaller..and if youre still reading..i still have my sense of humor..i am good friends with my ex-very-evangelical-wife...i collect vinyl albums and sometimes just buy a box... the last box had Petra's debut album...1977...gave it to her for valentine's..
It's fascinating to reflect on the fact that the very first Christians begged the Roman government to separate religion from state, but as soon as Emperor Constantine made Christianity legal those same tolerance-preaching Christians turned away from religious tolerance and promptly began attacking and actively destroying everything that wasn't viewed as "Christian". It's also interesting to note that Constantine was likely attracted to Christianity because he believed it would help him unify the Roman Empire, but was instead disappointed to find Christians arguing amongst themselves about whether or not Jesus was a god. Hence, he called for the First Council of Nicaea - and a second one after that. How very odd indeed.
Yes, and some 1700 years after the Bible was canonized Christians still argue with each other over the meaning of certain parts, mainly Revelation. I've suggested to some of them (via RUclips comments) that they can't convert heathens because they're too busy trying to convert each other.
Excellent, accurate evaluation of the Christian nationalism. unfortunately these 'Christian' beliefs create increased anxiety amongst the group of individuals with whom I associate.
Be Well! Mad
I remember thinking the same thing about that superbowl commercial with Bruce Springsteen. The religious message was pretty clear.
Great discussion! Just yesterday, I listened to a news report on NPR's Morning Edition about White evangelical influence in current politics, and its affects on followers. The news report is an 11-minute long audio and titled, "New Survey Shows 3 in 5 White Evangelicals Say Joe Biden wasn't Legimately Elected". Phew, the title alone irritates me 🙄.
That was a really interesting comparison to Jehad. My fundamentalist Christian sister once admitted to me that she was jealous of the Muslim faith because their followers were willing to do anything for their God. My chin dropped to my feet.
Andrew I couldn't agree more about the Trump era exposing the weaknesses of our government. Now its up to us to figure out how to fix them. Where would you start?
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature the heart of a heartless world, the spirit of a spiritless situation, it is the opium of the sufferer, of the people... The demand to give up it's illusions is the demand to give up those conditions that requires illusions... Criticism has plucked the flowers from the chain, not so that men and women may wear the chain without consolidation, but rather that they may break the chain and cull the living flower."
- Karl Marx (The Contribution to the Critique of Hegal's Philosophy of Right)
It doesn’t say ‘we the Christians. The last thing we need is a theocracy. That is what they
have in Iran folks.
Iran before 1979 no, after 1979 yes, i wonder why
The Founders vehemently opposed efforts to insert religion of any kind into our system of governance. They knew well the dangers.
@@leftnutt9730 thank you. This may not land for the OP, unfortunately.
I imagine the response, if any, will be..."China"..."Venezuela"..."North Korea"..."Cuba"..."Russia"..."Palestine"...
Our currency says in god we trust, because in practice money is America's god.
@@leftnutt9730 actually, pre-1954 Iran was an actual legitimate democracy, complete with some women in bikinis and others in positions of real power. But then, at the behest of BP oil the west came in 1953 and our CIA assassinated duly elected president Mossadegh (who dared to nationalize that nations oil and shared the profits with the plebs) and thus brought "real" democracy to Iran by installing a good and holy shah (good, because he allowed the west to control the oil instead of Iran itself) ... well this ended in 1979 when the now radicalized masses took over and the rest we more or less know.
Right on! I was raised by, in effect, Christian Nationalists. My mother loved Rush Dooney and a certain Pastor who pushed a Calvinistic worldview. It was a very tense household!🙄
Never trust a politician that tells you how you should pray, and never trust a preacher that tells you how to vote.
Never trust anyone who tells you how to pray, or to even pray at all.
Thank you Seth & Andrew for taking on this subject 🙏🙏. I understand it much better now & get how dangerous Christian Nationalism is in the USA & around the world as they move further out of country to push their cause!!
Religion, especially the far right evangelism orientation is deteriorating badly. However, history shows that any philosophy or governance that begins to lose power will have the remaining members double down in confrontation and violence. We are seeing this today.
I know the example is contrived, but the Nazis damn near wasted away entirely about a decade before seizing absolute power.
I can only hope you're right. I've been trying to figure out whether the extremist religions are having a resurgence or are in their violent death throes, very much hoping it is the latter. My other hope is that the literalists, like Creationists, will get so ridiculously untenable that they will drive people away and rouse their opposition to their own detriment. It is unfortunate that, if the end is near for them, they have to act out with such disruptive desperation. But I think we have another half centure of this dangerous idiocy before it is resolved.
@@derreckwalls7508 - I know what you are saying. History suggests that when groups that have been in power or who have tasted power become increasingly aggressive when that power begins to wane. Additionally, members of those groups also tend to become more hardened. The hope is that this becomes less potent in subsequent generations.
@@douglasrasmussen480 Creationism's denial of science is one of the main factors in my becoming atheist. Science is making the literal interpretation of the Bible sound more and more ridiculous every day, and I think that has made non literalists rethink their beliefs as well. Without an irrational belief in the supernatural and with a scientific explanation for the natural world there really isn't much use for archaic religious delusions. I think deep down that awareness doesn't escape even radical believers, and it subconsciously terrifies them.
@@derreckwalls7508 - I have done extensive research into the bible and Christianity since being embarrassed several decades ago by a Baptist minister who used the bible to intimidate what was originally areligious belief on my part. I have been for some time now an atheist and the more I know of Christianity and the bible the more it validates the religion as based on false history, inaccurate historical connections, impossible physics, non-existent persons and events, failed prophecies and outright evil. Do some research and you will find Christian apologetics simply do not hold up.
Loved the paraphrase of Dylan Thomas. Keep fighting the good fight.
They watched The Handmaid's Tale and thought that Gilead is a good idea.
Apparently the description drop down doesn't fully include the proffered info, here's the rest...
Andrew's channel is:
AndrewLSeidel on RUclips, natch.
Andrew is AWESOME.
I disagree with with few of his points but he is the best!!!
Great stuff.
The president should take his oath on stacks of ballots, and the constitution.
alot more need to hear this
A Christian-fundamentalist, Handmaid's-Tale-type future is unthinkable . . . . but not impossible.
...and North Korea conquering America is also technically possible -- imagine no military and everyone welcoming the invading army in -- but there is no way either will happen.
Self deletion when it happens I'm not playing in that world I barely tolerate rules now .
Seriously I feel my anxiety just fall away while listening to you two speak.
Interesting, potent argument. It does help to understand why the evangelicals fell for DJT.
Because they have recognized their king of idiots?
When you read "rage" by Bob woodward and the novel by Mary Trump you see this evenmore
7:20 I have made the same observation. Religious beliefs have conditioned us to accept ideas and beliefs in spite of contradictions and the lack of evidence. When you wonder how people can believe in insane conspiracies without a scintilla of evidence, I consider how religion has trained us ignore reasonable questions but to simply accept beliefs on faith alone. Religion has even elevated having faith alone to a virtue.
This is one of your best videos
AWESOME INTERVIEW... I'M BUYING ANDREW'S BOOK. sry bout allcaps.