Are Sid & Ovi already part of the top 10 best players all-time?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Bryan Hayes, Jeff O’Neill and Jamie McLennan discuss Alex Ovechkin’s performance continuing to spark debate about him catch Wayne Gretzky’s all-time record which leads to a conversation about if Ovi and Sidney Crosby can both be considered Top 10 All-time players.
name another player who scores 50 every season, top of team in hits, and never gets injured
200 goals first four seasons 1/4 to ever do it also he missed a year and half due to lockouts.
Penguins fan here. Sid is my favorite obviously but I always wished Ovie the cup when we were knocked out. It's supposed to be a rivalry but goddamnit if Ovie isn't a GOAT. I always hate when people trash on Sid because like it or not he's fucking good at the game. So is #8. If you like good hockey you like both players.
Cam Neely
Closest comparable is probably Jaromir Jagr. He never got injured and just rattled off 30+ goal seasons for a very long time. Wasn't quite as good at hitting, but in protecting the puck was just as good as Ovi.
Also ranking Jagr in the top players list becomes the same issue as Ovi. Jagr if he hadn't taken the years off to the KHL would have been very close to Gretzky in goals as well. Though as a complete player wasn't the best by any means. Just depends how much you value logetivity/goals. I would say you have to put him in the top 10 players (not including goalies) as well as Crosby/Ovi.
Brandon Trost remember when ovi destroyed jagr at the IIHF
I can't even believe this is a debate.
Its a fucking radio show let them debate shit dude you’re not such a perfect hockey god smh
Ikr surprised no leaf talk
He should have been canadian. There would be no debate
overhead18 .. I think Sid .. you ?
Buddyyouwantoutside easy there
Crosby was the best player almost consistently for roughly 10 years and Ovi might be the best goal scorer ever when he retires, how is this a debate?
Because theres at least 10 other people that dominated entire eras and theres a legitimate case for at least 4 other men as greater goal scorers
Because it fills airtime
Baloney: Crosby won only two hart trophies and two art ross trophies. He did not dominate his era.
Keep going, you’re about 10% through his hardware
And who else is even close this era? I can’t wait for this answer
These "top 10, top 5, top 15" lists are meaningless.
It should really be "who were the defining players of their era?"
By that criteria, Ovi and Sid brought hockey back from the grave. The sport had just lost a season due to a lockout, and they electrified the league. Both took franchises from terrible to stanley cup wins.
Ahh! Finally! You deserve a cognition award.
I’m not a Penguins fan, but I have to admit that Jake Guentzel is actually better than Alexander Ovechkin, by a lot. Ovechkin is a one dimensional player who’s only trick is to score one timers at the half wall. The vast majority of his goals come on the power play in which there’s no one marking him. He’s absolutely useless at even strength. He entirely relies on his teammates to set him up. Guentzel on the other hand, is one of the elite players at 5v5. A very high percentage of his points are earned at even strength, unlike Ovechkin. Guentzel is actually capable of driving the play and improving the play of his linemates, unlike Ovechkin. Also, Guentzel is 7th all time in playoff goals per game. He performs when it actually matters. Ovechkin has a long way to go before he reaches Guentzel’s level.
@@USMNTsoccerELITE lol imagine
Hattrick Kane 88 Lol get you fucking head out of your ass and actually look up some stats. Ovi scores the vast majority of his goals 5 on 5 and the center who plays with him always has better numbers than the one not playing with him between backy and kuzy. Up untill this point he also has the third best goals/game ratio OF ALL TIME, only tailing Mario and Bossy. For years Ovi was the only one on his team performing in the playoffs and he has a conn, does guentzel have that? Nope, he absolutely gets carried by Crosby a fair bit. And just in terms of individual awards Ovi even has more hardware than Crosby. You are absolutely mental and should never talk about hockey again in your life. Holy fuck.
jonah hoff this
I hope Ovi stays healthy, plays into his 40s and gets 900+ goals. I know that's wishful thinking but that would be amazing to see.
@@RoamHockey and if Ovechkin didnt lose a year and a half to lockout this would also be a different story...
We'll always be left to wonder how many goals Bossy, Lemieux and Bure would have scored, just to name a few, if they remained healthy. And how many Howe would have had if he didn't go to the WHA.
I’m not a Penguins fan, but I have to admit that Jake Guentzel is actually better than Alexander Ovechkin, by a lot. Ovechkin is a one dimensional player who’s only trick is to score one timers at the half wall. The vast majority of his goals come on the power play in which there’s no one marking him. He’s absolutely useless at even strength. He entirely relies on his teammates to set him up. Guentzel on the other hand, is one of the elite players at 5v5. A very high percentage of his points are earned at even strength, unlike Ovechkin. Guentzel is actually capable of driving the play and improving the play of his linemates, unlike Ovechkin. Also, Guentzel is 7th all time in playoff goals per game. He performs when it actually matters. Where is Ovechkin? Being a regular season warrior I see.
@@USMNTsoccerELITE LOL
@@USMNTsoccerELITE says a guy who has never watched an Alex Ovechkin highlight reel?
As a Pens fan, yes to both. Sid is one of the best all around players ever, and Ovi is the best goal scorer ever
Mike Bossy, Mario Lemieux, Phil Esposito: Am I a joke to you?
Hockey was way different back then bud
@@clitoralrosary9474 mike bossy and ovi are the best goal scorers ever. Again we are in the hardest scoring era ever right now
@@RoamHockey Athletes now a days are much more powerful then the beer drinkers back then, yes the style of hockey back then was much tougher but also much slower, so to say Bossy would score 70-80 today is really hard to back, i think what @send it is trying to say is because there is so much more talent these days its harder to score
@@anonymous134y Lemieux has the second best goals per game RIGHT behind bossy
If Ovechkin was born and raised in Sudbury, Ontario and a "Good Canadian kid..." there would be ZERO debate! These guys just spent 10min talking about why water is wet and the sky is blue
alwong604
Exactly, Crosby is in top 10 only cos he is Canadian, otherwise he is barely in top 20.. way overrated player... good no questions there but far away from the greatest top 10!Ovi absolutely is! Machine, non stop performing for a decade...
@@lasnamae81 They most definitely are top 10
lasnamae81 yet sid is 6th all time in points per game behind only the ‘80s legends...crosbys better than ovi sorry
lasnamae81 hhahha ive never heard someone say crosby is over rated. You are a complete moron 😂 dont watch this sport anymore if you think that.
@@lasnamae81 What???!! if you think that, step away from the game of hockey. That is blasphemous! Stay off the weed
Ovechkin, right now, is the best LW in NHL history, please take a look at them and see how clear cut that is. And he will go down as the greatest goal scorer of all time. Serious question, is there anyone who thinks he won't finish at least 2nd all-time in goals? And yet it's *still* a question at all? These 2 guys are all-time greats, right now, and have been for some time.
exactly, I don't understand how hard it is for them to understand that lol … I also don't understand why Ovi fans cant appreciate Sids talent and vice versa … I mean being a penguins fan I do have my bias and that's totally fine... but some caps fans totally discredits Crosby and some pens fans do the same for Ovi, at the end of the day, we are all lucky as hockey fans to be able to watch these two greats play. making a top 10 of all time is ridiculously hard since they are so many factors attached to that … but Sid and Ovi are indeed two of the all time greats, they defined this era of the game and both brought their franchise from nothing to champions.
@@TheLizardWizard17 Totally agree with everything you said, and that's coming from the perspective of being a Caps fan. These guys are 2 of the all-time greatest, we are fortunate to be here to see them.
Hes also the best in the league idc what ppl say he has had 3 Hart trophies and he has scored more goals each season than Crosby and mcdavid
He plays left wing and shoots RT Handed, he mastered the one timer against the grin, shooting back the other way like that, gives Xtra spin and turns the puck. It’s hard to see it. It’s the hardest shot in the game. Incredible!!
He's about to pass howe
I don’t even watch hockey, but to outsiders Sid and Ovi are like LeBron and Kobe. Top 10 for sure
LiezNFacts yeah to casual idiots that have been alive now
@@CodyChromeBand oh get off ur dumb ass horse
Unfortunately, that’s not the case. Hockey players, epically in the U.S.A., don’t get nearly as much attention as baseball, football and basketball players get. For example, everyone knows who Tom Brady is or Lebron James or Mike Trout. But not enough people know Sidney Crosby. It’s upsetting but it’s the truth
@@nyrgaming3091 Yeah but its fair to say that if a non hockey fan has heard of any two current players those players will be sid and ovi. Its just hckey is not as big in america as basketball or football
It’s nice/a relief to see that everyone in the comments agrees this is a dumb question to even ask. I mean shit They’re both possibly top 5 of all time
Isles Fan94 Crosby definitely top 5, Ovi I would say is at least top 15. I feel like he gets a little bit overrated but he’s for sure a legend
Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, Messier, Roy, Brodeur, Yzerman, Lafleur, Harvey, Jagr, Lidstrom. Which NINE of those do you kick out to put both Crosby and Ovechkin in top 5 though.
@@jacobdavis9424 Honestly I'd just kick the goalkeeps out on the premise that they don't count because it's impossible to compare.
Both top 5? No way. Who gets dropped from this list.
Player 1 - 4 Stanley Cups, 5 Lester Pearson/Ted Lindsay, 9 Hart, 10 Art Ross, 2 Conn Smythe, and would be 5 Rocket Richard if the trophy existed then, plus 60 official NHL records and countless unofficial ones.
Player 2 - 2 Stanley Cups, 4 Pearson, 3 Hart, 6 Art Ross, 2 Conn Smythe, and would be 3 Rocket Richard if the trophy existed then.
Player 3 - 4 Stanley Cups, Pearson/Lindsay didn't exist during his era, 6 Hart, 6 Art Ross, Conn Smythe didn't exist in most of his era, would be 5 Rocket Richards if the trophy existed then.
Player 4 - 2 Stanley Cups, 1 Pearson (trophy was born in this player's 5th season out of a 12 year career), 3 Hart, 2 Art Ross (as a defenceman), 2 Conn Smythe, 8 Norris.
Player 5 - 3 Stanley Cups, 3 Pearson, 2 Hart, 2 Art Ross, 2 Conn Smythe, 2 Rocket Richard.
Player 6 - 1 Stanley Cup, 3 Pearson, 3 Hart, 1 Art Ross, 1 Conn Smythe, 9 Rocket Richard.
To me it looks pretty tough to kick out any of player's 1 through 4, but you would have to do that to get both in, and we haven't even compared to guys like Jagr (5 Art Ross, 3 Pearson), or Lafleur (3 Art Ross, 2 Hart, 3 Pearson), or Esposito (5 Art Ross, 2 Hart).
@@delroycemctreelint486 That's funny, because to me personally it's the other way around. Ovi Top 10, Crosby Top 15.
There’s no debt ovi in my opinion is the best goal scorer of all time and Sid is one of the best all around players
Crosby has the best all around skillset if you look at all skills, it's not close really. Also arguably the smartest besides Gretzky and Lemieux.
Fun Times
not really close? I always thought Bobby Orr and Sergei Fedorov were the most complete players the NHL had ever seen.
@@kozmeetorez Crosby's all around skillset is better than either, but Fedorov is atleast close. You can't really compare Bobby Orr, he was at a massive disadvantage to begin with with the equipment he used so obviously his skills were not on par with Crosby.
Fun Times
Man you’re talking about A guy who shot the puck at 102 mph and skated at 13.5 seconds. And is still the only player to win the hardest shot and speed competition in the same contest. Its going to be hard to find another guy who gets 120 points in a season and wins the selke.
Simple. Yes.
LastName First word
Who would you put on your top-10 list?
Ovi won’t play another 5? Am I the only one that questions these guys whenever I hear them
You know ovechkin is the GOAT when you can watch a monthly montage of him scoring/hitting. If he doesn't score, he definitely will hit and have 5+ shots a game.
Look at the yearly season team standings since he's been on the caps then look before, they have been top 3 year after year. The amount of achievements this guy and his team has makes him the best in the NHL currently and top 3 of all time. You might as well rename the rocket richard the great 8 at this point.
I get he’s good and should be top 10 all time but if you think he’s top 3 of all time and best in the league rn you’re crazy. McDavid is the best in the league and there’s 3 or 4 others before Ovi
Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr. Who are you replacing Ovi with?
@@cantthinkofaname7706 I get that you just started watching hockey in the past 5 years. Yes, mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel McKinnon, Rantanen and etc are all at their peaks.
Ovi was like them in his peak too but better. He could put up 50-60 goals no problem at speed the same speed as these young bucks playing while being one of the best hitters.
Watch some ovi highlights he has about 10+ min highlight reel per season and used to be able to produce monthly highlights which nowadays players can't produce.
On the other hand, watching McDavid now was much like watching ovi at his prime. Very fun to watch.i haven't had the much fun watching a player since ovis rookie years
@@SRehill7 bossy, who I also consider as a top 3 player, is the only guy out of that era that could keep up to today's game...
Grets was ahead of his time but at the same time his skating wouldn't make it in today's hockey.
Also remember that goalies were glorified pylons back then. Small pad, stand up and flop. Those goalies would even make a midget AAA team these days.
Beer was still in the locker rooms and no one trained. Now everything is about science. Every single thing is so damn strict and has so much Sport Science that almost any first/second liner from today could have been a Gretzky point wise especially with nowadays goalies.
👏
Ovi only had those “down” seasons due to coaches trying to make him more of a 2 way player. The seasons he had from 2005-2010 was the majority of his best hockey, while he can still score, he’s not getting 120pts and putting up 60 goals like he could when he was young. He’s slowed down too. But no question he is in the top 10 and he’s the best goal scorer ever. Richards matter, tells you about the era, harder to score in today’s NHL. He’d score 100 a season in the 80s. If Ovi didn’t miss the 2004 season nor the other lockouts, you can add about 150 extra goals to his total.
Rusty Shackleford uh ... no. It went down with Dale Hunter and Oates (hunter with defense and Oates with playing Ovi on the right instead of the left) and went immediately back up with Budreau and Trotz. Not a coincidence. And one season was a partial Lockout where he was on pace to score 60 again. You’d know if Ovi was on roids. He’d break the whole net.
Roman Borris
In a literal sense if you go with adjusted stats, you take Alexander’s 65 goal season and put it in the 82 season when Gretzky score 92. Then Ovi gets 94 but you wanna know something. If you take Mario season from 93 and put it in Gretzkys 82 season. If Mario plays a full season he scores 101.
Bruh he was literally on a 58 goals pace over 82 games THIS SEASON when it stopped, his best goalscoring season since 07-08. And slowed down? He is still buzzing out there.
@Rusty Shackleford Well you kinda did say he was on them in your first message, HEAVILY implied it.
Looch1717 I’m talking in terms of his speed and agility. He still can move but... just watch young Ovechkin in a few clips... people think they know how he plays based on what they’ve seen the last few years, but the guy was a freak of nature when he was younger.
Mike Bossy never gets love.
I'm a lifelong Leaf fan but as a young'n I was in awe of Mike Bossy.
He got to injured to have a lasting legacy
@@RoamHockey Im just going to keep leaving these stats everywhere / Goals per game all time = Mike Bossy 0.762 Mario Lemieux 0.754 Bure 0.623 Ovi 0.606
@@natefoulon the guys with the highest GPG average are guys who had short careers. Their GPG average would have taken a nosedive had they played more matches.
Bossy played only 752 games. Gretzky had a 0.82 GPG after 774 games.634 goals.
@@RoamHockey 37.4% of Ovechkin's goals are on the powerplay. Gretzky only 22.8%.
Easier to score on a Powerplay.
They said you couldn't win with Yzerman also!!!!! Geno IS a top 100 no question.
erik johnson Gino is a top 30 maybe even top 20 of all time
Jomaru Joestar so does Malkin, dude.
Yeah, Crosby has missed the last 2 months, yet the Penguins are 18-5 in his absence, Malkin has carried them.
@@NotExplicable please get a clue about who Yzerman was as a player. Jesus Christ what a nonsense statement.
Also look into who the Red Wings won their last 3 cups against.... nough said.
Mark Andersen rust and guentzel along with Malkin have been fantastic. Then of course Jake gets hurts that adds to the pens injury issues
Once Ovie retires they will need to rename the Rocket Richard trophy the Alexander Ovechkin trophy
I think the NHL will probably consider rename trophies not bearing players so I guess trophies Vezina, Rocket, Messier, Masterston, Clancy, Lindsay will probably the last ones NHL would considered giving a new name
I'm sorry. I love Ovi as much as the next person, but that would be very disrespectful.
Ovechkin definitely represents the award more than Richard at this point, but to change the name would be disrespectful and they wont take that away from Richard
Nope - Mike Bossy
Glen Holmgren nah not bossy, it’s ovechkin, he’s lead the league in goals more than any other player, the rocket richard trophy is for the person that leads the league in goals, ovi has done that the most, that’s why he symbolizes it the most
As a caps fan.. Sid is definitely a top 10 all time player. Great all around player. Same goes for ovi.. easily top 10 all time. Greatest goad scorer of all time
In my nhl 19 sim I managed to sign him in free agency and at 38-39 he was scoring 60-70 goal seasons 😂
Tempus OG hahhaha I did the same thing
derek Hills LMAO that’s crazy
"He's gross" LOL!!
I’m not a Penguins fan, but I have to admit that Jake Guentzel is actually better than Alexander Ovechkin, by a lot. Ovechkin is a one dimensional player who’s only trick is to score one timers at the half wall. The vast majority of his goals come on the power play in which there’s no one marking him. He’s absolutely useless at even strength. He entirely relies on his teammates to set him up. Guentzel on the other hand, is one of the elite players at 5v5. A very high percentage of his points are earned at even strength, unlike Ovechkin. Guentzel is actually capable of driving the play and improving the play of his linemates, unlike Ovechkin. Also, Guentzel is 7th all time in playoff goals per game. He performs when it actually matters. Ovechkin has a long way to go before he reaches Guentzel’s level.
@@USMNTsoccerELITE this is bait
@@USMNTsoccerELITE Hahahahaha! :D ... oh wait, you are serious, let me laugh even harder! HAHAHAHAHA!! XD
how do these guys not know when ovechkin is born? seriously...
That's embarrassing.
Do you? I don't lol
I swear that idiot said Beligeau too...
“He’s not gonna play in the NHL another 5 years”
Says the guy who slowed down to the point that he couldn’t
Lol….yep and Ovie is still here.
There are so many legends, so many Kings of their time, not only in NHL, and to get a Top 10 All-time you have to be very special. Both can definetely be considered, in my eyes especially Ovechkin who might be the best goalscorer of all time.
What if Ovie pulls a Jagr and just keeps playing until his mid 40's 😂
Then he’ll probably score 1000😂
I’ve been a fan for 50 years. Played for 20. Do I think these two deserve top 10. It’s probably impossible to keep them out. Hockey has been around a long time. And so have they. There still top 5 players in the League now. Lots of Greats. But these two deserve recognition!! Congratulations to both of these two greats for there long outstanding career,s
Ovechkin is #3 in HIts all time, #11 in goals. That tells you all you need to know about the beast he is.
Tutti Frutti thank you Someone else agrees
Tutti Frutti he’s a plus 81 his whole career
daniel ntumba no fucking duh he has a lot of goals
Ovie is the greatest goal scorer of all times!! And the face of NHL along with Crosby.
Goals per game all time = Mike Bossy 0.762 Mario Lemieux 0.754 Bure 0.623 Ovi 0.606
Ovi is more top 100 goal scorers, than Malkin. No question
Well if he dint lose 80 goals to garry fuck you bettmen it would be higher
Bossy and Lemieux do laps around Ovie all day long not sure what your smoking, obviously the russian is a top talent of all time though dont give me wrong.
@Cameron Benjamin Nobody could put the puck top shelf like Bossy and Lemieux did, it doesn't matter who's in the net. Yes the goalies are better now but no there's no way they are stopping Mario Lemieux on a breakaway. Go look back at the Canada cup goal with Lemieux and Gretzky and tell me any current NHL goalies who's stopping shots like that. Nobody is.
Imagine thinking Ovi is slowing down. Russian machine don’t break
In a word: YES. In two words: HELL YES.
Both are in the top ten and I think Sid is knocking on the door for top 5 IMO. He has all the accolades to put him in that conversation.
Crosby is not even top 15. Won the hart and art ross only twice each. Only one 50 goal season.
3 time Stanley Cup champion
2 time Olympic Gold medalist
World championship gold medalist
World Junior Championship gold
2 time Hart winner
2 time Rocket Richard winner
2 time Art Ross winner
2 time Conn Smyth winner
He's also won the Ted Lindsay award which is the MVP voted by the players.
I'm not even a Sid fan but you can't deny that he's won at every level he's played in!!
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 injuries robbed him.
@@leafsfan1728 I'm not talking about junior and international hockey. Just NHL and I'm not impressed. He won one Maurice Richard trophy scoring only 44 goals.
Crosby didnt deserve his 1st Conn Smythe. He only scored 19 points in 24 games and a pathetic 6 goals. Logan Couture had 30 points and was the better player.
Bryan Trottier won 6 Cups
Jagr won 5 Art ross, 3 Ted lindsay and one hart. He was more dominant than Crosby
@@michaelshields6326 he probably would have had 3 more 100 point
Seasons without the injuries.
Ovechkin is unequivocally in the top 10 right now, as is Crosby. Anyone who doesn't have them there is delusional or needs to take off those rose tinted nostalgia glasses pronto. The only question now is where each of them ends up.
I mean Ovechkin is clearly a better player all time than Richard and Belliveu who put up worse numbers in a 6-12 teams league without the benefit of international talent in the league.
i think problen with thia is that most current players would beat those names you list. training methods and physique etc have gone up while 40 years ago there still were lot of stick hands.
only meaningful thing is that ovi and sid obviously are comparably as remarkable as those old legends are
@@kallemetsahalme1225 you can still compare players to how they did against their peers so that training methods style of play etc doesn't matter. The Rose Experience is probably correct that Richard probably is over-rated. I never saw him play, but he was all about goals and not much for assists which makes it pretty easy to compare him to Ovi. Ovechkin has lead the league in goals more times (9 to 5), plus has won an Art Ross, which Richard never did. Richard only won 1 Hart trophy compared to 3 for Ovi. The only thing Richard has over Ovi is that he has way more Stanley Cups, and for a time had the most goals in a season and I believe career goals, but Ovi obviously is handicapped by playing after 60 additional years of record breaking later.
Let's not forget goals are a lot HARDER to come by than they were in 80's and early 90's
Sid is alongside Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux on the Mount Rushmore of hockey.
Howe
French Connection Yes he is very close, look at his crazy stats in this hard era, 6th all time in scoring/game. He has won everything for both club and country also.
@ratmfan223344 that is not even remotely true.
the most obvious question ever. YES
Yes. Sid probably the best all around player ever and Ovi probably the best goal scorer ever. There isn’t even an argument to be had.
Not even close Lemieux and Gretzky were miles better then Crosby dude
Rusty Shackleford theres definitely an argument for it my guy. there will never be a correct answer, only opinions. remember this
Rusty Shackleford Do you have a dictionary??? Do you know what the word "opinion" means?? It means NOT A FACT, MAY DIFFER ACROSS PEOPLE
you guys have such a frustrating recency bias
Yes i have both Crosby and Ovechkin in the all-time top 10 NHL players. The way i look at it is if either was forced to retire today their numbers are good enough to put them among the 10 greats including 4 Stanley Cups for Sid and 1 for Ovi. I'd put them both behind Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy, Gordie Howe and Mark Messier and ahead of Phil Esposito, and Jaromir Jagr to round out the top 10.
1.Wayne Gretzky 2. Mario 3 . Gordie howe 4. Bobby orr 5. Sidney Crosby 6. Maurice Richard 7. Bobby hull. 8. Mark messier 9. Mike bossy . 10. Alex ovechkin
Steve Yzerman is better than everyone below Crosby on your list
Christopher Suchy And Sergei Fedorov was better than Steve
@@dmitrymeshkov1341 negative. You're being biased. Fedorov was incredible though
Yzerman Jagr and Forsberg?
I feel like picking top ten is almost impossible..
Ovi is best goal scorer ever. Doesn't matter if he breaks the record he is. Can't change my mind
822 and counting…
Crosby yes, already. when all said and done I think Ovi is top 10. 2 best of their generation puts them top 10.
Really? By the end of this season Ovi will likely be #7 (maybe #6 if she has a great streak) goal scorer of all time. With the exception of the great Mario, he's done this feat with roughly 150-600 less games. He's already top 10 hands down
Chris one of the best goal scorers without question. All around player top 10? Not ready to go that far. He’s failed miserably countless times as a player particularly in the post season. Crosby is above and beyond way better than him. Like if Crosby never got hurt their numbers aren’t close. You have to step over many all time greats to be top 10 all time.
@@Jimmyfly215 "failed miserably" LMAO have you looked at his playoff stats? Get a grip homer. Hard to win playoff series when Holtby is letting in muffin backhand shots from Patrick Hornqvist in game fucking 7.
@@Jimmyfly215 Absolutely, Crosby is already top 10, I'd stretch to say potentially top 5 by the end of his career. This isn't about best "All Around" players though. Ovi does one thing, score goals. And he's the best of our generation and comparably, one of the best ever. You don't claim those without being in the top 10 players of all time. The game of hockey is about goals. Not assists, not points, but goals. This is by far the most important stat for skaters. He's won a cup and been to several finals. He has more trophy's then I want to count. His consistency is unparalleled, especially when you factor in his playing style and how physical he's been throughout his whole career. He's a work horse. Hands down top 10 player of all time. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.
Greatest goal scorer of all time is automatic top 10 no debate
They both are absolutely in the top 10 of all time.. been a pleasure (even as a god damn Rangers fan) to watch these 2 players.. they aren't my favorite players but I damn well respect them...
Ovi, yeah. Not Crosby. (Bruins fan)
Greysen G. (Bruins fan) makes sense😂
@@b1g_permm524 no offense to Crosby but he cant play a single season without injury.... he is a great player but.. Ovie is way better... older, not injured, fighting Gretzky for goals and he really can take that record if he plays for 6 more seasons at least until he´s 40... 2 more 50 goal seasons, 3 35 goal seasons and there it is
Lukas Mesaros too bad he's rated higher than Ovi in every player poll I've seen yet alone top players off all time. And Crosby's has way more achievements. Haters gonna hate lol
@@b1g_permm524 Ovi's just far better at his position man.
Greysen G. And Crosby's a better "all round" player 🤷🏽♂️
Have these guys not ever listened to Ovi? Hes long said his desire is to be the greatest goal scorer of all time. 5 years? If he stays healthy, yes he will play long enough to get there. It is his stated goal.
Just imagine an alternate reality where Sid and Ovi play on the same team together.
We kinda get that when we have the All Star game every year xD. Yeah, that team would be unstoppable.
Yeah, but it’s the ASG, nobody cares about it
@@dynamite1647 Fair enough
It would have happened if the Penguins hadn't lost the 04 lottery.....they consolation prize: Evgeni Malkin. So far, he's been a better scorer in his career than Ovi. I'd say that worked out for the Pens!
Ovi is in another category. He is a top scorer, he hits HARD...his hockey IQ is way higher than any modern player.
His hockey IQ is not higher than Crosby's or several other players...
I wish more people would ask, where is Patrick Kane going to end up by the time he’s done
Hawk 007 he will be a hall of famer for sure but he’s not top 10
Seth Peters
Patrick Kane is the greatest player of all time. No one else is even close to him.
Hattrick Kane 88 Sure there are at least two :) Crosby Ovi
Seth Peters in my other comment, if you want to base this debate on points in the last 10 years Kane has scored more points than Crosby and Ovi. Has 3 cups, and multiple accolades. If he’s not in the top 10 with these guys, idk what you’re smoking.
Bone_Krusher 54
Agree he’s way better than both. He is number 1.
Ovi is hands down the best goal scorer to ever play the game not even a debate. If he played in the 80's he would have over 800 already not to mention that he isnt surrounded by players Gretzky was or Crosby is. Imagine Ovi on a Tampa team he would be doing 65 a year lol. On a serious side what a player hits hard he's never hurt and looks like he's having fun night after night. A shame he lost 2 years due to look outs im sure those 2 seasons took 80+ goals away. Cant wait to see the record broken this is something we might never see broken ever or at least not for 20+ years because right now no player active will even get close to 800.
Quick answer yes
McDavid as a pure player is fast approaching. He is changing the limits on what speed + iq becomes when it is backed by the obsessive nature he has. I know this because i saw it, one of my good friends from high school Marnus Labuschagne is now the best young batsman in the world from Brisbane, Australia originally South Africa. Hardest working guy at cricket and most talented, obsessed. Can't wait to watch both develop
Otis Whitton so what happens when he eventually slows down?? His speed is his entire advantage which isn’t s bad thing but once he looses a step or 2 I don’t think he can alter his game be putting up the numbers he puts up now
@@PittsburghFan his hands are possibly best in game, he will easily translate that into future scoring, look at Sid
Otis Whitton I just don’t think he can go to the dirty areas and still put up points
how is he not top 10, dude scores so many goals while playing such a physical game. Usually goal scorers are about finesse and skills and avoid physical contact if they can but not ovi, not that he doesn't have skills or any of that, but some of these goals he just muscles them in and initiates the big hits. And on top of all of that, hes never had any major injury while playing such a heavy and hard hitting game
Duc Ho hes a tank
Yes, considering they play in the modern era. Even Gretzky said himself that it would be impossible to put up the numbers that he did in today’s NHL. Players like Lemieux, Gretzky, Howe, Richard invented the game of hockey, but the players today perfected it.
Jake Spong
Mario is the exception. After the back surgery and coming back from cancer, he came back to the NHL after three years and past his prime. The league was then at stage caught the Dead Puck Era. He end up with 76 points in 43 games. The goals per game average that year was 2.62. Today is 3.05 that’s a 16-17 percent increase since then. Meaning that 35 year old Mario would have 88 points today. Averaging two points a game. People truly forget how good he really was.
Why did the middle guy not ONCE look at the guy on the right? lol
LOL!
Ovechkin at the age of 36 has 19 goals and 37 points in 22 games while leading the league in even strength points and goals.
ovie could break gretskys goal record while playing thru the dead puck era. aka its not even a debate. And Crosby is, well crosby. again no debate.
I will give Ovi his props as arguably one of the greatest all time goal scorers in history, but if you say sid only did this or only did that, never really hit, blah blah blah, as an argument to try cast an Ovi shadow over him, YOU ARE DELUSIONAL. McDaViD HaS 2 aRt RoSs'S aLrEaDy AnD 2 HaRt's LMAO. Crosby would have and should have at least 5 each, if not for untimely injuries. Possibly 6 each. 07-08 just took over scoring lead before high ankle sprain. 10-11 was on pace for roughly 135 points, miles ahead of anyone else before concussion. 11-12 based on previous year, prime sid would have won all the hardware that year too presumably. 12-13 was a runaway until slapshot to face. Also finished runner up in HART voting 3 times after all that. God some of you are CLOWNS! Crosby is top 5 ALL TIME! Its really not debatable.
Everyone saying it’s either Ovi or Gretzky as the best goal scorer of all time when it should be Lemieux or Ovi. If Lemieux played as many games as Gretzky he would’ve had 1100 or so goals.
If you want to use that argument, then Mike Bossy is the greatest goal scorer of all-time (he has the highest GPG average in NHL history). It also ignores the fact that Gretzky's goal scoring dried up after his back injury in 1991. So you can just as easily say Gretzky would have at least another 150 goals if it wasn't for his back injury.
Bossy is the best that's undisputable.
@@clitoralrosary9474 How is Bossy the best when he was consistently out scored by Gretzky in his prime? If anything Bossy gets a little overrated due to his career being cut short which kept his goals per game average from dropping. Dont get me wrong he's an all time great scorer but people lose me when they put him ahead of Gretsky or Lemieux.
@@michaelshields6326He wasn't outscored by Gretzky. Bossy has the all time highest G/PG of all time. 0.15 higher than Gretzky. Only Lemieux is close to him.
@@clitoralrosary9474 yes he was. Gretzky consistently out goaled him during their prime. The reason his goals per game is higher is because he retired earlier and didnt play through his 30's when his per game average would have dropped.
Debates should always be by era, if you could put all the best hockey players of all time on ice in their prime in today's hockey it would be tough for the older era's to keep up, even factor in the fact that the NHL now a days has many superstars as where back in the day there was only a few at a time. Ovi is the best power play goal scorer of all time! Sid is the best all around hockey player since Gretzky and Lemieux. It's also funny how everyone also forgets that Lemieux had almost the same goals per game as Bossy and almost the same points per game as Gretzky, why don't people ever talk about Lemieux??
Era, era, era... sorry. Ovi is much better then so many other players around his numbers
Yes. Just look at the top 100 goal scores all time. Ovi is alone in his era. Marleu is somewhere around 50, but has played 1700+ games. After that is Sid and Stamkos, near 100. Many of the top 20 played in the same era's. Being the active goal leader all time in 1989, with 5 fellow players of your era with you in the top 10, isn't as impressive as Ovi being absolutely alone.
According to QuantHockey, in the last 10 seasons, Patrick Kane leads the NHL with 768 points. This beats Crosby’s 731 and Ovi’s 726. He also has won three Cups, and multiple accolades. I’m not disrespecting Crosby and Ovi, because I love them. All three are different players, but you can’t mention two and not mention Patrick Kane. Thanks for your time!
I love Kane, but yes you can. If there were a draft and you could choose any of them as a rookie, zero people would choose him over the greatest goal scorer who ever lived, and Sidney Crosby.
chris scorpio okay that’s a fair point. but you just changed the situation. Are we talking best player all time? Or best player to start a team? Thank you for keep the convo respectful btw
Long answer. YESSSSSSSSSSSS
Ovi is putting up numbers in an era when no one puts up numbers. If he played in the Gretzky era, he'd average 70 goals a season for his career.
Yes. End of story. That's all.
Over the 18 seasons that Ovechkin has played we have seen 31 times where 50 goals were scored during a season. He has 9 of those and 4 times has led the league as the ONLY 50 goal scorer. In those 18 seasons we have NEVER had more than five 50 goal scorers in a season.
During Gretzky's 20 seasons we saw a combined 131 times for 50 goal seasons. There were 13 times where we had 6 or more 50 goal seasons with a high of fourteen 50 goal scorers in one season!
So 131 times versus 31 times. Ovechkin had 9 seasons of 50 goals out of a pool of 31 times. Gretzky had 9 seasons of 50 goals out of a pool of 131 times.
Ovechkin's goal totals are far more impressive than Gretzky's when you consider the era and look at the facts.
He also had 51 goals and a -35 (worst +/- that year in the league) in the same year. Can't take that record away from him. He may score alot. But he also gets scored agaisnt a bit...
if jaromir jagr didn't leave for the khl he would have put up numbers in Gretzky territory
A lockout is Ovi's biggest hurdle if he's going to catch Gretzky.
Jeff is clueless. Ovi will not stop until he beats Wayne’s record. He’ll play well into his 40’s like Jagr did.
I promise you, there’s nothing a Russian would love more than to be the top goal scorer of all time beating out a Canadian legend.
Putin would build a statue of Ovi.
Ovi would be the supreme leader of mother Russia.
Ovi would be a God.
1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Crosby
5. Howe
6. Richard
7. Jagr
8. Ovechkin
9. Hasek
10. Beliveau
11. Lidstrom
12. Messier
13. Bossy
14. Yzerman
15. Roy
My top 15 looking at it I think I'm missing Doug Harvey looking at it now.
Never said yes so fast before and I used to be a massive Crosby hater.. these 2 have done everything in the MODERN GAME !! No offence #99 but OV deserves the goal record title for simply doing it in a time where the players were actually capable of playing and the scores weren't 8-7 a game... and he isn't even done yet and closing in fast.. And Crosby is just filthy period to the point that we still consider him 1 of the best currently playing for now the 15th year in a row.. the only other person doing anything remotely close to that is bouncing a ball in a Laker uniform.
edit* made the comment before even watching video.. so glad point is brought up at 3:35
Of course they are, they are both among the greatest. People will always compare the two because they entered the league together and they are rivals. But they should not be compared because they play two different positions with different responsibilities who have both made their teams amongst the best in NHL virtually every year since they entered the league..
How is this even a question.. Wayne and Mario 1A and 1B
Bobby Orr 2A
Gordie Howe 2B
Bossy
Sid
Ovi
Most accurate top 5 I've ever seen
what about Messier, Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg and Jagr?
@@Rileylmao_ they are in my top 10 I had yzerman at 5 but forgot Bossy who is sure fire 3..
After ovi..
6. Yzerman
7. Messier
8. Jagr
9. Sakic
10. Roy /broduer
Forsberg I do not know where he would go
Well Ovi is not even close to Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg, Jagr...
@@thet3504 Goalies have to be their own list and I honestly think it's crazy that anyone argues against Hasek being the best of all time.
Hasek played during the same period as both Brodeur and Roy and won 6 vezina's in 8 years. In the many years that he lead the league in save % no one has ever had such an immense gap between 1st and 2nd place. In just his FIRST back to back Vezina win, he had a .930 for both years, in those years Roy as the second best goalie in the league had a .918 and a .906. Hasek should be viewed as Gretzky for Goalies.
But what about the playoffs! Roy had a career average of .910 while Hasek averaged .925. Even if you only take Roy's numbers on those great COL teams and completely skip his time on Montreal in a higher scoring era he still only averaged .918, lower than Hasek's career average and nothing compared his insane .930 during his 8 years on that horrible Buffalo team.
Anyway, this was supposed to be about players, not goalies so idk why i really posted this.
"I don't see him slowing down"
Coronavirus: Hold my beer
jagr... you never know if Ovi keeps going
As a Caps fan, Malkin not being on that list was absurd. I’ve literally bought one Pittsburgh Penguin piece in my life and it was the light blue Malkin shirsey
They are in the top 10 best forwards of all time.
But best players of all time maybe, maybe not.
The point about the goalies mastering the position right around when Ovechkin started playing is a really good, solid one.
100%
Ok people what I don't understand is he is over 100 goals away from Gretzky's record and yes it is a possibility to beat the record. But Gretzky is the best player ever to play Hockey .His 100s of records he achieved throughout his career nobody has come close to him. I can't take it away from him that he might break the record but Gretzky's the best player ever to play the game
Think of it like this if Ovechkin and Crosby didnt FINANCIALLY save the NHL you guys wouldnt have a job...... they should easily top 10 every single player in the top 10 saved the NHL and so did Ovi and Sid....
ovi and sid are going to play atleast 14 to 15 hundred games before they retire. they are going to play as long as all the great players just for the sake of leaving the biggest mark that they can.
And ovi lost a full year and a half due to lockouts... the half year he was on pace for 65+ goals again.
Trey And Crosby lost 2 years putting up 130+ points. It’s crazy what these 2 have done
He also lost the 04 and 05 season another 50 or 65 goals
My top 12: 1. Bobby Orr 2. Wayne Gretzky 3. Gordie Howe 4. Mario Lemieux 5. Bobby Hull 6. Maurice "Rocket" Richard 7. Mike Bossy 8. Mark Messier 9. Jean Beliveau 10. Brett Hull 11. Sidney Crosby 12. Alexander Ovechkin . Jeff O'Neill checks in at #6172. Jamie McLennan would be #11174.
1. Orr
2. Gretzky
3. Lemieux
4. Bossy
5. Esposito
6. Howe
Rest would probably be Coffey, Lafleur, Bobby Hull, and Hawerchuk. Although I'm sure I'm forgetting someone.
Salvatore Ianni ever heard of 7 Norris and 4 cup winner nick lidstrom?
How you not even say the name Jarg :)
Bigmarian
Absolutely 100% legend
And what bout Datsyk.. what a magician he was.. best hands in nhl ever
For real, top 3 in pts as a winger even after taking a few years off
Ovi is best player all time, hands down. It's so much more than just scoring goals too
I think there's a case for both. but for Ovi, he's doing things nobody has ever done before. Dominating in an era where goal scoring is as low as its ever been? That's insane, this guy has a shot at breaking Gretzky's record. Slim, but still it MAY be possible. Crosby is a phenominal player but the only thing that may hinder his chances are the injuries. Imagine how many points that guy would have if he wasn't injury prone. I guess that's another tick for Ovi, the guy isn't just a goal scorer, he lugs his body around and imposes his will. He got high sticked the other game and it wasn't called. He didn't whine about it, he scored a Hatty cuz it pissed him off
Ovi represent the PURE RUSSIAN POWER, do you like it or not.
But do not get me wrong, even I like Ovi but,
Mr. Grezky scored 802 goals at age 33
Ovi scored 698 at 34.
It will be tough for him to pass Mr. Gretzky record.
Only time will show to all of us who is who.
Personally for me, Mr. Gretzky and Alex Ovechkin are two LEGEND of NHL.
Why are these Canadians always hating on Alex Ovechkin did Gordie Howe Wheels fall off at 34
cbfbmc his wheels didn't but he sure wasn't scoring the same. Look at Mr. Howe's games played in comparison. I don't know what it will take to knock him out of the top 5 but...it's still a ways off I think.
Raw As I Could When it comes to hockey Canadians are not soft.
Raw As I Could How do you explain that over the last 43 years Russian juniors have won only 4 gold medals while the Canadians have won 18?
Well said. Ovie still going strong at age 36 with 19 goals and 37 points in 22 games.
Follow the same logic below and contrast Crosby and Lafluer. Again Lafluer's heyday was the 70's when the game had fewer talented players, older slower goalies etc. Lafluer has 1353 points in 1126 games. As of last season in 943 games Crosby had 1216 points. Its clear that Sid by the time he logs 1126 games is going to eclipse Lafleur. He's right there in the top 10 NOW along with Ovi.
Ovi doesn't get enough credit for being a power forward.
Sid and Ovi are in your top ten ..no question
Overdrive killin it
You cannot compare statistics from different era's. Hockey has changed so much.
Ovechkin didn't play in the "dead puck era", which is usually defined as the decade leading up to the 03-04 lockout. If anything he benefitted from the opening up of the game coming out of the lockout.
He has played his entire career against goalies who actually know how to stop pucks, instead of standing up and trying to kick the pucks away. Every player above him on the goal scoring list played against absolute trash goalies, in a far less competitive league.
Peksi Sarvinen
In the Dead Puck Era
there was a goalie who finished his season with a 1.69 goals against average. And his name wasn’t Hasek, Broduer or Roy. You Clearly started watching Hockey yesterday, because as gentlemen above said the dead puck era was the hardest time to score a goal.
They also played to wood or aluminum sticks and the contact, you are allowed, encouraged to knock the guy til next week. Scott Stevens, Ulf, Pronger, Lindros. The nhl today is a public skate compared to the nhl of old.
Just look at the number of shots the guy takes compared to any other player in the league. He's absolutely EILITE still and even if he slows down he's still going to produce mad goals. Easily playing another 5 years.
Yea
Don't really care about the question, but I really appreciate the lack of chest thumping and loud opinionating. All three of these guys spoke thoughtfully about this subject. What a refreshing change from the ESPN debate format.
Yes
Its not only goalies thats better today though. All positions are better and that Also helps.
N YI yes and in 50 years ovie would be shit with that stupid argumentation!
Hasek pisses on all current goalies. Back in the dead puck era you could have a goalie like Giguera with pads the size of Greyhound buses. And all the players had wooden sticks. Yet MacInnis, Fedorov, Modin and others had booming slapshots. They also had red line offsides and some of the best D-men who ever played the game. The NHL also allowed harder checks, clutching and grabbing. You had REAL powerforwards back then. People who scored 40-50 goals and had well over 100 PIMs per season due to physical play and fights. There are fewer real hockey stars today in the NHL than back in the late 90s, early 2000s. And most teams were stacked with talent because there was no salary cap.
To be fair, Crosby does surpass Ovie in tears.
Not really Ovi been healthier he’s a better hitter. Better goal scorer and. He great passer just not as good as Crosby’s. Better at passing and wining a cup takes a team so. Quit Putin bitch made crybaby Over ovi for a team accomplishment.
slither king can you read? He just chirped crosby you dumbfuck
Even Gretzky's consistency doesn't compare to Ovie, look at *_any_* other player's career projectory, he is unparalleled. Never mind top ten, Ovie is number ONE.