How to Make Creamy Coffee Melt & Pour Soap - Perfect for Beginners | Bramble Berry

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  • Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 138

  • @kimbell6689
    @kimbell6689 3 года назад +12

    I just love how professional you are, as well as how much quality information you are able to pack into each video.

  • @5784Eva
    @5784Eva 3 года назад +4

    I love videos with Ann Marie , she is making me calm .

  • @pamcolechadwell1302
    @pamcolechadwell1302 3 года назад +24

    I wish you guys would make more videos on Melt & Pour on all the additives we can add to make the M&P way better.

  • @franciscomedinav
    @franciscomedinav 3 года назад +2

    My wife is learning to make soap. She bought some kind of kits from this company company. She has made a few bars. It's just amazing.

  • @enbeast8350
    @enbeast8350 3 года назад +33

    I'm not a soap maker, I just enjoy watching Ann-Marie's videos. They're relaxing ^-^

  • @fifimorrison1804
    @fifimorrison1804 3 года назад +6

    I don't drink coffee, but I love the way these look with the suspended grounds. I think it's great to have an exfoliating soap other than those loofah ones I've seen which I do not find attractive at all! Anne Marie's presentation of everything makes everything very easy to follow along and I love her cheerful personality. You can definitely tell she has an enormous love for what she does. Rock on Soap Queen!

  • @krystal7916
    @krystal7916 3 года назад +16

    I'm anxiously waiting all my tools to start my soap making journey. Thank for all of your detailed and insightful videos.

    • @mysttea1576
      @mysttea1576 3 года назад +2

      Congratulations!!! I started my journey a year ago, and my life has changed for the better in so many ways!! I started making soap rather than sourdough in lockdown, lol BB is hands down my favorite supplier.

  • @bramble-berry
    @bramble-berry  3 года назад +4

    ☕ Thanks for watching! You can find the Creamy Coffee Melt & Pour Soap Project here: bberry.studio/CreamyCoffeeSoap
    If you have any questions, feel free to contact our customer service team at info@brambleberry.com or 877-627-7883 between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. PST, Monday-Friday. You can also live chat with customer service on BrambleBerry.com from 9:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. PST, Monday-Friday.
    ☕ Find the entire Cafe Collection on our website here: bberry.studio/CafeCollectionLaunch
    Shop Bramble Berry: bberry.studio/_ShopBrambleBerry
    Recipes, Tips & Inspiration: bberry.studio/IntheStudio_Projects
    Facebook: facebook.com/BrambleBerry
    Instagram: instagram.com/brambleberry/
    Twitter: twitter.com/brambleberry
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  • @redroseskull
    @redroseskull Год назад +1

    My first attempt in making melt and pour soap (or any soap for that matter) was a disaster. I decided it should be a coffee soap because I had some coffee grounds saved just for the occasion. I tried to melt the base in a double boiler. The glass bowl was smaller than the pot (and I used the smallest one I have) so it hit the bottom of the pot directly. Which resulted in a lot of bubbles. The base I bought from a local store already had olive oil in it so I didn't add anything else, but I have no idea if I was even supposed to. I think I added the used coffee grounds too soon and they burnt but I also added too much, so the smell now is just awful but I like the exfoliation level. The fragrances I added cannot be even noticed because of the smell of burnt coffee. :D My base was setting waaaaay too quickly even when stirring. So I am supper amazed at how yours is staying liquid for so long. And the lastly, I used the soap and I think I almost poisoned myself with it if this is even possible or maybe it was the ingredients I used.... idk. Now I am not sure what to do with the bars. I guess they are a total fail and I should throw them away.
    The moral of the story is - don't do this like me. :D

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +2

      It sounds like your temperatures were just a little too warm due to the bowl making contact with your pan. As long as you take care with your temperatures the next time around you shouldn't have any of those same issues. Melt and pour starts to burn over 140 degrees so we suggest investing in a good thermometer as well!

    • @redroseskull
      @redroseskull Год назад +1

      @@bramble-berry Thank you! :)

  • @LanceEdwardLeichtle
    @LanceEdwardLeichtle 2 года назад +2

    I’m going to attempt this soap recipe and pour the soap into popsicle molds

  • @studioknit
    @studioknit 3 года назад +7

    Such a great gift idea! Can't wait to smell the coffee!

  • @megganzimet
    @megganzimet 3 года назад +4

    hahaha that soap queen ending!!

  • @deesnicecream1402
    @deesnicecream1402 3 года назад +5

    I had been adding vanilla to scent my coffee soaps. I'm heading to Bramble Berry to buy that espresso fragrance!

  • @Dellaclassysassydiva617
    @Dellaclassysassydiva617 3 года назад +4

    Love the smell of coffee

  • @jannatnore1472
    @jannatnore1472 3 года назад +5

    I just can’t stop see candle and soap making videos.

  • @susieroy8565
    @susieroy8565 8 месяцев назад

    Lovely video. Great information. Beautiful soaps .

  • @mfc5547
    @mfc5547 2 года назад +1

    Do your fragrance oils have endocrine disrupters or sulphates? I'm looking to buy fragrance oils but I have many chronic problems and a severe hormonal imbalance problem. Great videos & very informative, thank you 😊

  • @marilynbirch6345
    @marilynbirch6345 2 года назад +1

    New to watching thank so much

  • @levanasoaps6142
    @levanasoaps6142 3 года назад +2

    These are CUTE! They look like cookies and cream ice cream! I wanna try this.

  • @emullinsstreams
    @emullinsstreams 2 года назад +2

    What temp does the base need to be in order for additives to suspend? I've had this issue before where it will not suspend at all, and this is the first time I've heard of the temperature issue!!

  • @phorn_khann
    @phorn_khann Год назад

    I love the body scrubbing 😂

  • @TessBautista
    @TessBautista Год назад +1

    when you say soap, can this be used for the body for showering? thank you for sharing

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +1

      These soaps can be used for the hands or the body!

  • @shunwilliams6180
    @shunwilliams6180 3 года назад +1

    Thank you so much for sharing 🥰🥰🥰

  • @stancexpunks
    @stancexpunks 2 года назад +1

    Are the used coffee grounds completely dry when you add it?

  • @wlsweat1
    @wlsweat1 3 года назад

    There is nothing like the fresh smell of Espresso or Coffee in your soap. I bought my 2nd bottle of the Cashmere fragrance.
    I did experience a darker color which fought with my coloring. I seldom use melt and pour for myself as it dries out my skin and then I have to use lotion. I never use lotion on my hands after using my own homemade soap :)

  • @Kaileynorriscreates
    @Kaileynorriscreates 3 года назад +2

    I love your stuff! I have used many of your fragrances and other things. Please upgrade the labels. I have a few bottles of fragrance where the print on the labels has disappeared. Rule of thumb: Write with permanent marker as soon as you get your product.

  • @Fathima.S641
    @Fathima.S641 2 года назад +1

    Hi..can I use instant coffee powder directly

  • @נתנאלצִבעונִיגמה
    @נתנאלצִבעונִיגמה 2 года назад

    If I sell my MP even to my friends, do I need to do Assessment? This recipe is lovely. Thank you

  • @Hehux91
    @Hehux91 2 месяца назад +1

    Can we add oil into melt and pour soaps?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  2 месяца назад +1

      Yes, we recommend a max of 1 tsp per pound.

  • @carolyntipping3413
    @carolyntipping3413 3 года назад +1

    Love this soap!!!

  • @SisAngelaL
    @SisAngelaL 6 месяцев назад

    How many drops of the coffee scent do you put in your recipe for soaps to make it smell really good thank you

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  6 месяцев назад +2

      It depends on your batch size. We would recommend using a fragrance calculator to get the recommended usage rates: www.brambleberry.com/calculator?calcType=fragrance

  • @davidahandcraftsoap
    @davidahandcraftsoap 3 года назад +1

    This is a great tutorial for beginners

  • @ray_of_rashmi
    @ray_of_rashmi 2 года назад

    Hi.thanks for making such wonderful videos.
    Can i add fresh juices like tomato or potato to transparent glycerine base?what will be the shelf life of that soap?

  • @devamalardavid3679
    @devamalardavid3679 3 года назад

    Hi thankyou for your video,Can i use this for face?

  • @nomadismileseeker6611
    @nomadismileseeker6611 2 года назад +1

    Is there a general rule for FO percentage in melt and pour soap?

  • @maddiesullivan588
    @maddiesullivan588 3 года назад +1

    Can I use coffee extract with the grounds in soap? Or is the coffee seed oil different?

  • @B24CPN
    @B24CPN 2 года назад

    Hi, I’m just getting started on this project. What if I don’t have 99% IPA right now (yet)? Can I use a 91%… and if so, will it work the same? Thanks so much for all the helpful tips!

  • @lover_girl_333_
    @lover_girl_333_ 7 месяцев назад

    I enjoy your videos

  • @ray_of_rashmi
    @ray_of_rashmi 2 года назад

    Can i add dry ingredients like dried rose petals,sandalwood powder to transparent glycerine base?
    What will be the shelf life of that soap?

  • @pleasure414
    @pleasure414 Год назад +1

    I have a question so do we not need to use a preservative to keep it from molding?and does it have to be used grounds or can we use fresh grounds I would love to make this

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +2

      You can use fresh grounds but you will see rings around the pieces of coffee of brown. You do not need to add a preservative unless your grounds are not completely dry when you add them.

    • @pleasure414
      @pleasure414 Год назад +1

      @@bramble-berry thank you

  • @asmaakram998
    @asmaakram998 3 года назад +1

    I am planning to start my business, i become fan of u

  • @marlenellewellyn1229
    @marlenellewellyn1229 Год назад +1

    How long is the shelf live of melt and pour compared to cold process soap?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +2

      Both are about 1 year, or in the case of cold process, the shelf life of whichever oil expires first.

  • @efaisst
    @efaisst 2 года назад

    If you did not add the coffee oil, do you think the grounds themselves would add aroma to the soap or would they tend to act just as an exfoliate?

  • @pammietime4495
    @pammietime4495 Год назад

    Hi love your vids..Can I use fresh ground coffee beans?

  • @fathimanuzriya1990
    @fathimanuzriya1990 2 года назад

    Hi ..can ik how much of soap base , fragrance , oils ..will be needed to do 2 bars of soap ??

  • @Jaidzeka36
    @Jaidzeka36 2 года назад

    If I decide not to use the vanilla color stabilizer, should I replace it with more fragrance oil so that it's still 0.4oz?

  • @hblhairextensions
    @hblhairextensions 2 года назад

    Hello great video What is a good way to store your soaps ?

  • @Jas_Speaks
    @Jas_Speaks 3 года назад +2

    Is there a trick to make sure the scrub we use (coffee or Jojoba beads) does not fall to the bottom?

    • @Whichofthefavors
      @Whichofthefavors 2 года назад +2

      You can buy melt and pour suspending base but I think it contains sulfate.

  • @enceestorecottons
    @enceestorecottons 3 года назад

    Which ingredient increases lather in a moisturizing soap ? Or which soap base is the best for it ? Please reply

  • @pleasure414
    @pleasure414 3 года назад

    What type scales do you guys use to weight....and one more ques now I've run across people that say u shouldn't put dried flowers or oatmeal or honey ect in your soaps and I'm confused because I thought it was ok...i need answears

  • @amulyach5806
    @amulyach5806 2 года назад

    Which soap base is best to remove flaky and dry skin

  • @richloveadokpogg4279
    @richloveadokpogg4279 3 года назад +1

    Please am in Ghana how can I get your books and product?

  • @ninalove9226
    @ninalove9226 3 года назад +1

    Hi Anne Marie. I am using about 8 to 10 drops of essential oil in each soap
    Each soap is around 90gm
    After I unmold the soap it smells awesome BUT when I wash my hands there is no aroma left on my hands at all, my hands smell like I used a regular dove bar. What am I doing wrong?
    Thank you.

    • @alert1006
      @alert1006 Год назад +2

      You are just not adding enough essential oils, 10 drops is nothing.

  • @jayeglowstudio
    @jayeglowstudio 3 года назад +1

    Is it possible to add sodium lactate to rebatch soap for a harder bar… if so can u do a video please

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      Because rebatch has already gone through saponifcation, sodium lactate will not make it harder. Sodium lactate is a great additive in hot process soap though - it makes it smoother. You may find the article below helpful.
      www.brambleberry.com/ingredient-information/additives/art0191-all-about-sodium-lactate.html

  • @asmitamondal705
    @asmitamondal705 3 года назад

    Can I just toss the coffee grounds in the oven and then use it? Or is it necessary to only use used?

  • @natashabryant8648
    @natashabryant8648 3 года назад +1

    Miss. Ann-Marie how do I keep my soap base from globing up after it out of the microwave? I see yours is loose and it's not sticking or globing up at all what am I doing wrong?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      We actually have a video coming out soon that will help with this! But in the meantime, it either means you need to microwave it more (it's just not hot enough), or it may have been overheated. Once melt and pour becomes hotter than about 160-170 degrees F, it can begin to burn. Once this happens, the texture becomes more gloopy. Do you know what temperature your soap is when it is the gloopy texture?

  • @TaterBug7
    @TaterBug7 3 года назад +1

    Could you use the coffee seed oil for candles too or would you need a fragrance to go with it?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +2

      Coffee seed oil does have a strong scent, but it is not meant to fragrance candles. We would recommend a fragrance oil - you can find those here: www.brambleberry.com/shop-by-product/ingredients/fragrance-oils

    • @TaterBug7
      @TaterBug7 3 года назад

      @@bramble-berry Thank you!!!

  • @SuzanTyrraschOk
    @SuzanTyrraschOk 3 года назад +1

    This looks great - I love coffee! Would it be fine to use unused coffee grounds, too? Curious if that makes a difference - I bet it would still work great! (although might as well use the coffee first)

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      We usually don't recommend fresh grounds because they bleed in soap, but it's ultimately determined by your personal preference!

    • @SuzanTyrraschOk
      @SuzanTyrraschOk 3 года назад +1

      @@bramble-berry Great to know - that makes sense :) Thanks!

  • @kathrynmoffett4512
    @kathrynmoffett4512 Год назад

    Question: when I make soap and it’s been harden for quite some time why does my soap become dewy?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +1

      It sounds like it may be glycerin dew, it's very common with melt and pour and has some easy solutions. We like to wipe off the dew with a soft cloth and then wrap the bars tightly with plastic wrap to prevent any more dew drops. Another option is running a fan over the soap while they're hardening, this can also help prevent glycerin dew. More tips and tricks are available in our article all about glycerin dew here: www.brambleberry.com/tips-and-tricks/soap/art0010-explaining-and-preventing-glycerin-dew.html

  • @effycavania9023
    @effycavania9023 3 года назад +2

    Do I need the coffee to be wet to add to the soap base? 🙆🏻‍♀️

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      We recommend adding used coffee grounds that are mostly dry. A little bit of moisture is okay, but the drier the better!

    • @Monkeyingyang
      @Monkeyingyang 3 года назад +1

      @@bramble-berry How did you guys dry the coffee grounds?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +1

      @@Monkeyingyang We like to lay out the used grounds on a paper towel!

  • @latishahill5745
    @latishahill5745 3 года назад +1

    If I don’t drink coffee can I soak the coffee in water and then spread it out to dry and use it in the recipe

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      That would probably work! You can also used fresh coffee grounds, they will just bleed a little bit. You could make a small test batch to make sure you're okay with the look.

    • @latishahill5745
      @latishahill5745 3 года назад

      Ok thanks

  • @cinnamonspice180
    @cinnamonspice180 6 месяцев назад

    How long you melt in microwave

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  6 месяцев назад

      We recommend melting the soap in 30 second bursts.

  • @soniagulati1686
    @soniagulati1686 3 года назад +1

    At what temperature did you add the fragrance?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      You can add the fragrance oil at a wide range of temperatures - just make sure the soap is thoroughly melted. Around 130-150 degrees F is perfect!

  • @jaeaesthetic5882
    @jaeaesthetic5882 8 месяцев назад

    how to make it last longer like what can i do or add to my melt and pour to make it last longer than a couple weeks at a time before it goes bad

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  8 месяцев назад

      We recommend storing your melt and pour in an airtight container to prevent them from getting soft and mushy before you can use them!

  • @TammyTorres416
    @TammyTorres416 9 месяцев назад

    What kind u use coffee brand I already ordered 🎉

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  8 месяцев назад

      Yay! There isn't a certain brand we prefer for coffee grounds, whichever you usually use should be great!

  • @sharayajohnson3199
    @sharayajohnson3199 3 года назад

    Do you need a preservative for coffee melt and pour soap ?

  • @harshithachowdary9980
    @harshithachowdary9980 3 года назад

    Can we use any other base ?

  • @jj_hoolio
    @jj_hoolio 3 года назад +2

    So i just recieved several bars of hot processed lard soap from an online shop (that i wont name, but i specify this to say that i wasnt able to smell them before buying), and i was super disappointed by both the scent profiles and the scent strengths. I was hoping for strong, almost perfumey soaps and what i got was very faint, untrue scents. (Almond and the lily of the valley were almost unscented, and what you could smell was definitely not what was advertised. Very strange considering i got an almond lotion that is strongly scented, tho the smell fades within a minute or so after applying.) All this to say; do brambleberry recipes and oils create a strongly scented bar that will leave scent behind after use? Bc thats what i want!! I might buy some melt and pour and some fragrances to make my own if they are more like what i want. Plus i can make up some Christmas presents!

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      All of our fragrance oils are tested to give soap and other projects a nice strong scent, even after a 6 week cute time. In general, soap and other wash off products leave a faint scent on the skin. If you're looking for a strong scent on the skin, you may find a lotion to be more effective. No matter the project, recommend using the "strong" scent recommendation with our Fragrance Calculator - you may find the article below helpful.
      Using the Fragrance Calculator: www.brambleberry.com/tips-and-tricks/bath-and-body/art0011-using-fragrance-calculator.html

    • @jj_hoolio
      @jj_hoolio 3 года назад +1

      @@bramble-berry thank you! As long as the bar itself smells great, im happy.

  • @meltemr.300
    @meltemr.300 2 года назад

    Hi I would like to know if all this materials are 💯 natural?

  • @AM-uo9qx
    @AM-uo9qx 2 года назад

    Very light scrub, I add more coffee

  • @travelfoodie8132
    @travelfoodie8132 Год назад

    Do we need to add preservatives for this soap

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +1

      You do not need to add preservatives to this recipe.

    • @travelfoodie8132
      @travelfoodie8132 Год назад

      @@bramble-berry Thank you Madam. I am your big fan from Malaysia that always watching your video.

  • @lilmamasofly9111
    @lilmamasofly9111 3 года назад +1

    Does the soap base have detergent in it?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +3

      Our SFIC melt and pour bases do not contain detergents.
      You can find the full list of ingredients here: www.brambleberry.com/shop-by-product/ingredients/bases/melt-and-pour-soap/sfic-goat-milk-melt-and-pour-soap-base/V000754.html

    • @lilmamasofly9111
      @lilmamasofly9111 3 года назад +1

      @@bramble-berry thanks

  • @kirandeep4452
    @kirandeep4452 Год назад

    Yesterday I made a melt n Pour soap with donkeys milk soap base. Added brazallian clay and essential oil. But it's not lathering as shown in videos. Where I'm going wrong. Please help

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад

      That is going to be a question you will want to ask your melt and pour supplier. Generally, the recipe and the ingredients that are used will affect the lather of the bars. Milk soaps tend to have a smaller and more dense lather so you may want to look into alternative bases if you are looking for a more bubbly bar.

  • @zarinenigar6857
    @zarinenigar6857 6 месяцев назад

    What is the dimension of your silicon mold. I want to order it

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  6 месяцев назад +1

      Each soap measures 2.75 in wide by 1.1 in tall.

  • @melissalin4145
    @melissalin4145 2 года назад

    Is melt and pour soap not as good as hot process?

  • @travelfoodie8132
    @travelfoodie8132 Год назад

    What is the shelf life for this soap

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +1

      For best results we suggest using these bars within 1 year of production.

  • @dinarusso3320
    @dinarusso3320 3 года назад

    I know you all sell supplies for soap making... however I was wondering if you sold soap you make?!?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад

      The soaps we make in our studio are not for sale, we give some to our staff members and donate the rest to local charities.

  • @ca.rohitgupta9038
    @ca.rohitgupta9038 3 года назад

    From where we can buy these oils , pls share link of Amazon

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад

      You can buy all the supplies for this project on our website here: bberry.studio/CreamyCoffeeSoap

  • @VannyV1221
    @VannyV1221 Год назад

    I'm wanting to try this but on the website it says the coffee seed oil isn't recommended for melt and pour ... so...🤔🤷🤦

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +1

      Fixed oils are not recommended to be added to melt and pour because they can affect the hardness and lather of your finished products. We have very thoroughly tested this recipe and found that the small addition of the coffee seed oil had no negative effects on the final bar of soap.

  • @peachy4713
    @peachy4713 2 года назад +1

    No one talks about how to find out what measurements to use for your soap, do you just follow a recipe step by step? What if you have different items? Or how does one know exactly how much to add of things. Please someone help

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  2 года назад +2

      For our projects, you can find the links to our recipes and see the ingredients in the video description!
      The recipe for this project is on our website here: bberry.studio/CreamyCoffeeSoap

  • @jasminebaker2546
    @jasminebaker2546 3 года назад

    Are all of your scents natural

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад +2

      Our fragrance oils are synthetic. If you want natural fragrances, we offer many fantastic essential oils for soapmaking!
      You can find the Bramble Berry essential oils here: www.brambleberry.com/shop-by-product/ingredients/essential-oils

  • @angelafuller8746
    @angelafuller8746 8 месяцев назад

    Do you have a vegan version of this recipe?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  8 месяцев назад

      We do not, but you can use any other white melt and pour base instead of the Goat Milk soap for a similar end product. We would suggest the SFIC Shea base.

  • @asmaakram998
    @asmaakram998 3 года назад

    Let us know how to make melt and pour soap

  • @BURZZA3G
    @BURZZA3G 3 года назад +1

    I like the original soap Queen music much better! 😂

  • @jayeshadk2443
    @jayeshadk2443 Год назад

    How to make soap base?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  Год назад +1

      Melt and Pour is a very difficult product to produce without access to lab space and professional vent hoods. If you wanted to make soap from scratch we recommend starting with a beginners cold process kit!

    • @jayeshadk2443
      @jayeshadk2443 Год назад

      @@bramble-berry thank you for your assistance.

  • @jessrichardson9654
    @jessrichardson9654 2 года назад

    Someone told me that Melt and pour you can't add anything or it will mold

  • @RossieMarrie
    @RossieMarrie 3 года назад

    so, this is normal coffee? what's the life span?

    • @bramble-berry
      @bramble-berry  3 года назад

      It's the coffee we made in our studio the previous day! This soap has a shelf life of approximately one year.

  • @ليلىقنبور
    @ليلىقنبور 3 года назад

    Please why do you put an article on the screen i do not see any thing

  • @letstalkaboutlife493
    @letstalkaboutlife493 3 года назад

    im sure looking forward to the paradise. ive been asking everybody if they can say a prayer for the paradise to get here. the bible says the women proclaiming the goodnews are a large army. revelation 21: 3,4