I've used the hakko 888 and 936 for 15 years and never once wished I had better performance. It's always done what I needed. Now i want one of those new fangled types!.....Thanks alot dave!
This is hilarious. When I was in high school doing electronics, we used the original soldering iron, a branding iron style iron placed in a butane fire and left there till hot and tested on a bar of solder before quickly performing the soldering till the iron got too cool. After a few uses the iron had to be cleaned with acid and re-tinned. That's old school! Everything that's temperature controlled is a huge pleasure to use compared to those old irons that would set fire to your project if you allowed it to get too hot!
I was skeptical of the Metcal iron then my dad gifted me one. I used it and I love it. My Hakko sits on the shelf somewhere as a backup, but I haven't needed a backup to date. But to each his own.
The overshoot in the JBC is probably a feature and not a bad design, the control loop is probably calculated to be precise with certain thermal mass "attached" to the tip. When you solder, you physically alter the characteristics of the control system but not the parameters of the control loop. That´s why the damping is not working so well when it heats up mid-air.
the overshoot is because JBC tries to compensate for the thermal resistance to the tip but the response time is a function of thermal mass of the tip so if you want faster response you will have some overshoot ... so the reason JBC works better than Hakko is because the tip has at the same time lower thermal resistance and also lower thermal mass and probably because the algorithm that compensates for the thermal resistance is more aggressive, or perhaps the Hakko doesn't have that compensation at all and merely stabilizes the temperature at the sensor.
It was a little moot point to make about the "burn proof flexible cable" not being on the TS100. No, it doesn't come with one, but you choose which cable you want to use on your own. I ordered my TS100 together with a 24V power supply and 4 meters of silicone burn proof cable, which makes the wire from the powersupply both long enough and flexible enough that I don't notice that it's there, in fact, I have better reach with this iron than one that is tethered to a station on your desk.. :) But yes, it's not an iron that will replace your JBC. Can't expect a 60 bucks soldering iron to beat out a 1000+ bucks or whatever that 130W JBC costs and that's not the intention either. But I'd wager that it's faster to heat up and more capable than the Hakko 888, only that the Hakko 888 handle would be more comfortable to use over longer periods. The ergonomics of the TS100 handle isn't the greatest.
Need a cheap source for silicone 2 conductor cable for your TS100? Search "silicone cord tattoo" on Fleabay. $5-6 gets you 6 feet of super flexible cable delivered to your door. Don't forget to pick up a 5.5mm x 2.5mm Male DC jack for a buck as well.
It is funny reading some of the comments. I have been through different irons and technologies. I had 25 watt and 15 watt firesticks back at ITT and I learned to solder with them, our professors were real sticklers about our soldering. People lost points on projects for their soldering. I purchased a Hakko 926 when I was tasked with replacing caps in LCD monitors at work. I had that for 7 years and it worked fine for my use. Cleaning out the garage gave me some disposable income and I got a Hakko FX-951 and then a deal on a Metcal MX-500P, not because I needed them but I wanted them and could finally afford them. Purely from a subjective standpoint, the FX-951 and Metcal absolutely blow the other equipment I had away. The 926 was light years better than the firesticks I had and the FX-951 and Metcal are light years past the 926. FYI, I use the 600 (650F) series tips for the Metcal for leaded and 800 series for lead free. I don't have or feel the need to have the same tips in different temps. I've soldered to ground planes with a 3.2 mm tip instantly. I also never really change the temp on the Hakko, I stay at 650F there also. I know it's more heat than maybe I should use, but I never get to the 3 second rule I had drummed into me at ITT. One second and done. What it comes down to, if you solder a lot, buy the best you can, even if it takes some time to save for it. Instant gratification really isn't. If you are a very occasional solderer, you don't have to go top shelf. I don't ever laugh or denigrate people for what they use or can afford to buy. I am grateful for what I have but I am no fanboy willing to ram my choices down anyone's throat. All I can say is that over the 3 years or so I have been part of the Blog, I have seen numerous threads/posts on people buying cheaper tools and then spending time and energy trying to make them work better or complaining about them. Why? What is your time worth? What's your level of aggravation worth? My father may have been an uneducated man but he was a smart man. He ingrained into me, buy the best tool you can, buy it right and buy it once. Replacing poorer quality tools more often or continually upgrading will cost much more in the long run than buying the better tool upfront, even if the cost is more painful at the time.
I use Ersa i-con 1 at work. An excellent iron for soldering at speed and heat delivery is very good on ground planes. but replacement elements are very expensive
The Pace ADS200 is $150 cheaper, delivers 120watts and has 40 tip types all under $15 (with a reputation of being the best tips in the industry). In a few weeks, Dave will be able to judge why Pace is cutting prices this way... it could be a game changer - let's see. I have one coming my way too.
I have only been through two heater elements in 5 months, but the the tips don't last long. We use genuine Ersa replacement tips, but even after good care of the tips they only last two week of heavy useage.
I have a 951D and have never used an 888. I believe the 888 uses a thermistor to sense the tip, not a thermocouple. I have found a Hakko patent for an integrated tip. If this is correct for the T15 series, the heating element and the thermocouple are one in the same. It consists of thick Kanthal D, then thin Kanthal D. This thin section is the part that heats up. Then the other metal is thick Ni Chrome. So the thick sections do not heat up while all sections are part of the thermocouple. There is a thermistor in the handle for monitoring the cold end temperature. The control alternately heats and measures so the iron will always pulse. It is a great iron I would buy again and recommend to friends.
What kind of regulation is used in those irons? I think Hakko and Weller just switch the heater on and off with some hysteresis around setpoint (bang-bang), but JBC obviously uses something more sophisticated, like PI/PID or similar regulation.
Hi all: Have you heard of the technique of inserting some sort of copper foil or cream into the air gap of the Hakko type tips (between the slip-on tip and the ceramic heating element) to increase heat transfer to the tip? Does this work?
Instead of second guessing, hook a scope up to the thermistor and heater connections inside and know how much thermal lag or if poor control looping is an issue.
Hakko has the FX-100RF in response to the Metcal RF design. I like the new tech, but the 951 interface is anything but new. A review of the FX-950 which IS available in AU might poke a stick in the sides of HakkoUSA who seem to have decided not to import that unit to NA. Funny though, the parts list for the 950 show 110V and 120V transformers are available.
I think the ERSA icon stations still use old style tips but they do work pretty nice. My old ersa station also has a decent thermal transfer and the fit is much tighter, the heater is like the hakko but solidly encased in metal. I found just the tip style can make a lot of difference, a longer tip compared pretty bad to the shorter ones.
Just clicked on the Video because i saw the hakko style tips compared to direct heating technology and had the exact thing in mind. Ersa has pretty much perfected the "old stlye" The power graph on my icon 1 v shoots up immedeatly after putting the tip on a copper plane. Plus the controls with the rotary encoder make much more sense than all of this button rubbish. The ersa toolstands also are better imo, because they are sooo damn simple but yet so nice to use. Tips are dirt cheap and are pretty much indestructible.
So in theory if you threw a bunch of thermal paste into the tip of the old design would that be helpful? There is non-conductive thermal paste around if we're worried about that aspect but I could imagine a real thermal paste being significantly improved compared to just a simple air gap, right? And if it does help would your thermal paste plus old-style soldering iron be remotely comparable with a new style soldering iron, or would it just be an unnoticeable improvement?
I was wondering if some copper wool stuffed in the end would improve thermal transfer while watching. Or maybe if Hakko had used a screw on the inside of the tip and thread on the heater. I may try the copper wool trick.
It will, but in practice a piece of aluminum foil will do a better job. But not too much foil, aluminum foil can melt and fuse the tip to heating element.
A review of the TS-100 would be interesting. About 180 AUD for an iron, PSU and collection of tips. Looks interesting. Would it replace a high end JBC, Metcal or Weller? Maybe not but it could be an iron to throw into the car glove box as an emergency spare.
here I been using metal clothes hanger and propane torch isn`t technology something great? wonder what they will think of next ? by the way did they ever get that home computer thing sorted out or am I stuck with my old punch card reader with vacuum bulbs forever
Thank you for the video. I think it is actually possible to make this "old" technology works much better with just software tweaks and change in sensing circuit.
agreed. i love my JBC, but thats maybe because i went from a "xytronic LF1600" - which wasnt bad for the price - directly to the more professional and way more expensive professional solution. i guess there are certain discussion objects which will inevitably lead to heated up arguments: which is the "best" soldering iron, the "best" oscilloscope, the "best" microcontroller… well here we go again! ^^
i have used multiple layers of aluminum foil in between heater and tip , to make it a snug fit for 900 m tips and the capacity of the iron has increased to as good as my 951
I was just wondering about this too. I recently had to do a job on a board to remove connectors that were on massive copper traces and the heat on my Hakko 926 struggled even on full blast. That's what led me to this video.
I have Metcal MX5200, Hakko 951, and TS100. My personal preference is Metcal. It can heat up the position pin of the rj45 jack in 2 seconds. Hakko could do the same job within 5 seconds. The TS100 with factory firmware only give me crap joints on the rj45.
Hi Dave, It's been an absolute BEAR for me and finding a proper soldering station and the tips I need. The 900M-T-xC seems what I will have to go with (I am planning SMT soldering, Dragging, and the like and just can't--for the world--get ahold of a 'welled' tip--the 900M-T-xCM series. Your power transfer video was especially useful. I have n FX937D ($37.00 from ebay) and just tonight got a 900M-T-0.5C tip. At first it would NOT slide onto the ceramic element--I saw that the problem was overlapping silver onto the tip. I shaved it out and the tip slid right on. Then I noticed this: At some sections of the tip bottom, I could see a wee bit of white ceramic! But it fit. It looks like it might work as long as I am careful not to over-tighten and damage the ceramic piece. At first, I was really disappointed, then thinking about what you said about the high thermal resistance between the tip and the heating element, in my case, I have a direct contact between the tip and the top of the ceramic heater--My thought was that this might actually improve the thermal conductivity (lessen the thermal resistance between the heater and tip! What do 'ya'll' think?...haven't tried it yet. The tip that comes with it seems to fit all the way down, still with a bit of gap at the top. --daLe
What if you put like.. Thermal grease inbetween the heater element and the tip? If you fix the heat transfer "problem" they should behave more similarly right?
The main issue with the hakko style irons is that the ceramic element does not reach the end of the tip, creating a gap. It is possible to remove 1 or 2 mm from the cylinder by filing it down. Just remove the ceramic element, and file down the tube. I have done this on 2 wands now, and it helps performance greatly each time. It removes the ferrule, which does not matter. I suppose you could also try some fine copper wool, and wrap it around the ceramic element, but I did not try this.
Here's a thought. When the tip is installed, there's a small gap over the top of the element and an air gap of about 0.35mm (0.014") around the element on each side (on mine anyway). Cut some some fine stranded copper wire about 50mm (2") long and keep the strands straight and parallel side by side. Give them 1 or 2 twists in the very center and then fan them out. Lay it centered on top of the element, fan out the strands like an umbrella and fold the strands down over the sides of the element then slide the tip on (adjust the length and number of strands to get a fit). You could wrinkle the wire a little to give it some spring. That would be easy and just might work.
It worked. The strands I used are 0.25mm. Had some trouble with a used tip because it was rough on the inside, but a new one twisted right on fairly snug. Make your 2 twists short and tight. After you form the strands down against the element, slide the umbrella out a little from the tip and press it a little with your fingers so the tip will go over it. Then twist the tip on slowly in one direction.
It seems that a quite useful feature on the JBC direct drive controller would be a MAXIMUM "POWER" setting. Perhaps 25% to 75% power range when enabled??
Ted Milker on my Hakko I replace tips on the fly without waiting for them to cool down and they slip out without any issue, so thermal expansion is not really relevant
Thermal expansion of ceramics is usually lower than the thermal expansion of metals so, given the tip profile and the way it 'locks' with the heating element, chances are that there is even more of a gap between the ceramic heater and the tip itself, apart from the point-contact at the top of the element.
Gee, this answers questions I had for years with my little Hako. I bought a bigger tip and boosted the temp setting, but even with that I'd wonder why the on light wasn't on while I was waiting. I assumed the thermocouple was too far from the tip. It certainly is worse if the tip housing isn't tight. As you say, you can appreciate an unfortunate heat cycling that is a great waste of time for long projects.
Coming back to this video years later, it really is interesting how many people have basically adopted portable irons like the TS100 as their primary soldering iron.
Some induction type irons are adjustable like the Xytronic ones, they use low voltage high frequency AC and a temperature probe that inserts into the back of the tip. Instead of using the curie point of the tip they use a PID loop to control temperature. Some of those are quite powerful up to 200W.
This is a much better comparison. The advantages of the new design are clear. However, even if the lifetime tip cost balances out and if I were to use it enough for tip life to be significant, I will still refuse to buy such a station on principle, they just price them too high; Absolutely no reason the tip design should significantly effect the station base price, and certainly not by $500.
I think around $30 with free shipping as a DIY bag-of-parts kind of deal, just look for T12 kits on banggood, though you get a horrid $2 handle with that, you can consider an upgrade later to something more decent for extra less than $15 or so.
The T12 tip only has two active terminals, not 3. The third terminal is just for the earthing. The way this works, the heater and a K-type thermocouple are connected in series, you have a digital control soldering station, and a few dozen times a second, it stops heating, and measures the temperature for a few milliseconds, it can't do these two things at once. Now if you had to adapt it to your existing 968 electronics, you would for one potentially have to account for different measuring methods - i don't remember whether Aoyue uses thermocouple (that generates a voltage depending on temperature) or a thermistor (that is measured in a resistive voltage divider), and for other you'd need to subtract the AC it drives the heater at, and extract a tiny little voltage, so it's going to be challenging. I think JBC also uses the same system where thermocouple and heater are in series. Note how smart this is because nichrome can be used both as the heater material and as one side of the thermocouple.
Barry Manilowa Various soldering stations use different approaches to heating (inductive, resistance) and sensing temperature (e.g. thermocouple, thermistor, sensing change in resistance of heating element, etc.). So you would have to find an older style soldering station that was designed to use the same style temperature sensing interface as that used by the new style soldering iron otherwise you will either have all heat or no heat because the temperature feedback loop no longer worked. But if you can find an old style base that was compatible with the new style soldering iron then it could certainly be done provided the wattage of the new soldering iron was more or less identical as well (to avoid overloading the existing transformer in the base).
Hmm I wonder if the Weller LT series soldering tips are any better/worse? They have a flat surface to conduct the heat to the tip and there is positive pressure pulling the tip to the heater.
Hi Dave ..... can you do a test putting heat sink compound into the tips of the "loosy goosey" ones to see if that can fix the fact that there is an empty air gap in there. Or will that damage the ceramic element ? Regards ... Tom
I´ve remember Danfoss recommends using and sells a thermal compound to be applied to temperature sensing bulbs when assembled into thermowells. This paste seems to have silver flakes to better heat transmission.
I had *TS100*, theretically exactly the same as hakko 951, same power, same technology, but for some reason it's performing like a crap. I had measured everything, voltage and current readings look to be fine, 65W peak as advertised, 8 Ohms at the heating element, but the performance isnt there, I don't know why, that's a mystery for me. I'm quite desperated and thinking about JBCs iron but with that popular open source DIY station(unisolder from dangerous prototypes).
Arek R. Did you try the open source firmware for it? To me the pid on the open source one is better than the factory. I've used one for about a year and I'm very happy it, I've taken my hakko clone to storage. Guess it depends on what you do with it, I mostly do smd and wires and hobby stuff.
I do not own a TS-100 soldering iron but as for what you mentioned about the "burnproof flexible lead" isn't that a choice of your own with the TS-100? And for the power supply, who doesn't have a few lying around, now they can be put to good use. I do see the positive sides of the TS-100.
Javier Palla Lorden Yes, the hobbyist could certainly order silicone cable for their iron. But how many hobbyists realize the importance of using silicone insulated cable? To go to the added effort and expense to secure such cable you must first know why such is an important consideration and why you should insist upon it. As a hobbyist one oftentimes only learns those valuable lessons after the fact.
Need a cheap source for silicone 2 conductor cable for your TS100? Search "silicone cord tattoo" on Fleabay. $5-6 gets you 6 feet of super flexible cable delivered to your door. Don't forget to pick up a 5.5mm x 2.5mm Male DC jack for a buck as well.
I do have a Metcal MX500 soldering station and I also have a TS100 and some other cheaper irons, which one do I use all the time? None of the above! I use a soldering gun or my homemade LI-Ion battery powered soldering iron using a Metcal tip, which I have a video of on my channel, I use them because they are convenient and the tips are basically free especially on a soldering gun. I know that it's hard to use but if you master it, you're golden. Awesome video. Keep up the good work. Cheers :)
It is curious that this technology be taken advantage of as the alloy of choice by any given maker has taken a page from the “Black Smith’s” hand book. As metal of unknown alloy reaches a temperature that allows for the quench and hardening, it looses it magnetic properties. This simple technique with color of heated metal is checked by the Black Smith with a magnet. If it has an attraction to g to the heated metal, it is not hot enough to cool and result in a very hard tool. So a chisel, blade or high ware item has reach the proper temperature a magnet does not stick. Time to quench in oil. Below this crucial temp, the metal won’t be hard and a file will dig into it. Now come the soldering iron. As the correct alloy is chosen, heated it looses its magnetic properties yet at a proper temp to melt all solders used in the electrical market. The “Curie” point helps by the beginning loss of magnetic properties of the alloy. This makes it possible for it to toggle on and off as magnetic properties begin to change. The chicken or egg question can be answered. The Black Smith come first and the engineer came last. I enjoy learning even while retired, it is new to me that the “Curie” point is the name of what a Black Smith has known for centuries. Just didn’t know it had a name. Now you can design a soldering iron after testing different alloys, then use the magnetic properties to control heat at the business end. Cheers! Cert. Automotive ASE Master tech since 1978, retired.
I just remember an 90's battery powered soldering iron that the tip connected to the handle with an RCA style connector. The heating element was inside the tip. It worked OK.
It's nice to compare therma circuit with electrical. I also use it to design heatsinks. But it doesn't explain delay in the regulation as resistors as the resistir divider reacts immediately. You should store the energy so better model is to add the capacitors. From the heat element to sensing element (Rh-s), Sensing element to the tip (Rs-t) and the third one between the tip and soldered joint (Rt-j). Then there is a thermal capacity of both tip (Ct) and the soldered joint (Cj) represented by a capacitors. The Ct is charged before soldering and when you put the tip to the joint rhe Rt-j drops down and you charge the Cj from the Ct with some delay. It takes a time to drop the Ct charge and the regulator react when the Ct charge drops down...
I have an ATTEN ST-100 station, it performs excellent, it uses Weller LT series tips and those are simply clever little pieces of tech. I am using the station for over a year now and the only thing I bought were a few of original Weller LT series tips for smd work.
I have a 60w chinese soldering iron and I've made my own tips. Bought it for about 4 bucks and works great. This guy can view a simple glass and found 1000 problems. Life is simple. Keep it that way and you'll live more.
I just thought about something: Could you increase thermocoupling by pouring a little bit of copper dust into the tip? It looks kind of loose. Fine copper dust could act like a thermalpaste. Can you try that? I don't think that would make the tip get stuck. But hey, you got a whole bunch of Irons. :D
I bought an ali cheap 110v variable temp iron by mistake for oz 220v. But instead of burning element the tip got crazy red glowing hot. I use it often when needing the extra heat. Not all types will continue to work but the Ali one with small led display in handle works great over voltaged.
I went from old ERSA DIY clone to used metcal (two of them). I love them, they just work. For travel I use the TS-100 and I don't love it. It's uncomfortable but it is the best you can fit in your bag.
In theory, and with some tools an knowledge, you can do a DIY better controller for any tip (with any microC). But is really necessary to model the "losses of Tip" and measure the tip temperature in design state. Actually is not so difficult, I made some diagrams for a DIY universal solder/de-soldering station (for almost any tip, cheap or new jbc tips) using a cheap STM32, and also with a smart design you can resolve the "changing" tip temperature issues using different tips for jobs.
Some google searches found a few high temperature thermal compounds. The Silicone Solutions SS-240 seems to be a reasonable cost one up to the task. I bet it'd be worth trying as an experiment.
I guess Weller has temperature gradient from measurement point to the end of tip. It is like thermal resistance from one end of the tip to the other. From construction point I'd assume the difference to be less than on Hakko that has measurement point yet furher away.
Ok I'm late to this party. Is there a way to make a better thermal connection from the ceramic element to the inside bore of the tip???? My jar of thermal paste says 400F max. I do have some copper screen I could stuff in there but I still need to change tips from time to time. How about the T12 irons. Can I run a T12 handle on my existing station? Maybe some wavy copper sheet in the air gap. It's still better than the air gap. The copper sheet will be fully annealed after a while. I don't know but I keep thinking about it.
Dave does the tip in JBC iron can spin around when you for example put some force on chisel tip sideways ? I don't see any spin-blocking element on the tip or handle whatsoever. It would be fu***ng annoying if you want to put some force into big cruty joint.
I take aluminum foil and wrap it around the ceramic heating element until the interchangeable tip fits snuggly. So far that has been taking care of most of the hysteresis.
Looking forward to see how the new PACE compares to these other soldering systems. If it has a direct drive tip at 130W just like the JBC, but at 1/2 the price!
So I've never used temperature-controlled irons, I've always used your basic plug in irons with either a rheostat or dimmer switch to regulate the temperature myself. Seems like my solution may be producing BETTER soldering than some of the cheap stations, because I crank the power up based on 'feel' when I know I'm going to need it. It's not a direct-drive tip, but since I can blast full power when I'm on a big ground plane I'm not held back by the bad control loops. Neat
The nice thing about the very cheapest stations is that they don't have displays and buttons, they have a big friendly knob that you turn to set the temperature, and if you have to, you can just crank it up to 450°C and solder away on your big ground plane. I find that it works much nicer than adjusting the power, even though you do have to adjust them quite frequently potentially depending on what you're doing.
Actually, the regulated stations are a better solution. Your solution inherently limits the power available to the iron to "sort of" regulate temperature but the moment your soldering iron tip contacts a thermally conductive part that tip temperature drops dramatically unless you then dial up the power (by way of dialing up the voltage). By comparison, the regulated stations will always attempt to automatically maintain their set temperature at all times and will dynamically adjust their output power to maintain that set temperature and you may set that temperature point at whatever you want (up to about 450C). As for whether one prefers an older regulated station with just a knob or a newer design station with digital display, it is more a six of one, half dozen of another (for non-English speakers: a 6 of 6 scenario, in other words, equal), scenario as both do exactly the same thing. The only advantage to those with digital displays is that you may set an exact temperature each time and they typically display actual measured tip temperature when in operation plus they are easy to calibrate since you can just program in the necessary offset if you want all your stations to produce the exact same tip temperature when set to the same temperature (not terribly critical in a hobby environment). But otherwise both type stations are effectively identical for the most part until you get into the really high end stations.
Can you test performance of old tip, when used with thermal paste to reduce core-tip resistance? It could be the last usage, but you know... for science ;)
I have my doubts about your analysis of the performance here. In particular, the Hakko decimal point looks to be *blinking* at a fixed rate when it's on, not on steadily. You were on the right track with the power meter, but measuring at the wrong point. You'd need to splice in a meter, preferably analog for the response time, to measure the current to the handpiece itself. Likewise, the power bar on the fancy iron is probably showing a smoothed output, not instantaneous values. At the end of the day, 130W is always going to trump 65W of available power. The reduced thermal resistance is going to avoid some temperature sag between the sensor and the tip under heavy load. However, simply adding more power to the existing Hakko design risks overheating the top, again because of the less accurate control loop.
The LED is indeed the "heater on" signal. The frequency and duty cycle will vary with thermal load. Because the heater is either off or on, it is not proportionally regulated, and there is a time delay between the heater turning on or off and that event reaching the tip and temperature sensor there is a delay in the feedback loop where the frequency varies moderately and the duty cycle can vary quite a lot.
HI all, ...a followup to my previous msg: I am thinking about 'beveling' the top edge of the ceramic heater in order to get improved contact between the sensor and the tip. The reason I am restocking parts and can't test them yet is because a flood recently wiped out my (Electronic Room),...what my nieces dubbed my workshop. I decided to start with the soldering station. I have a 937D station ($37 ebay) but am starting that may be a bad choice--any suggestions?
I've used the hakko 888 and 936 for 15 years and never once wished I had better performance. It's always done what I needed. Now i want one of those new fangled types!.....Thanks alot dave!
Try soldering 10mm bullet connectors to 6 AWG wire
Come on Dave, take it apart!!! Grinder to the JBC tip to see what's inside!
This is hilarious. When I was in high school doing electronics, we used the original soldering iron, a branding iron style iron placed in a butane fire and left there till hot and tested on a bar of solder before quickly performing the soldering till the iron got too cool. After a few uses the iron had to be cleaned with acid and re-tinned. That's old school! Everything that's temperature controlled is a huge pleasure to use compared to those old irons that would set fire to your project if you allowed it to get too hot!
I was skeptical of the Metcal iron then my dad gifted me one. I used it and I love it. My Hakko sits on the shelf somewhere as a backup, but I haven't needed a backup to date. But to each his own.
Quick follow up video = 24 minutes
Well it is much less than the typical 2 hours... also it came in quickly.
Some people have attention spans that last for longer than 37 seconds.
I would have rather complained if it was to brief. It's nice to keep longer videos running in the background working on other tasks.
The overshoot in the JBC is probably a feature and not a bad design, the control loop is probably calculated to be precise with certain thermal mass "attached" to the tip. When you solder, you physically alter the characteristics of the control system but not the parameters of the control loop. That´s why the damping is not working so well when it heats up mid-air.
the overshoot is because JBC tries to compensate for the thermal resistance to the tip but the response time is a function of thermal mass of the tip so if you want faster response you will have some overshoot ... so the reason JBC works better than Hakko is because the tip has at the same time lower thermal resistance and also lower thermal mass and probably because the algorithm that compensates for the thermal resistance is more aggressive, or perhaps the Hakko doesn't have that compensation at all and merely stabilizes the temperature at the sensor.
Thanks for the video Dave, good thing you mentioned the TS-100, I almost forgot to remind you of the TS-100, you should review it lol.
It was a little moot point to make about the "burn proof flexible cable" not being on the TS100. No, it doesn't come with one, but you choose which cable you want to use on your own. I ordered my TS100 together with a 24V power supply and 4 meters of silicone burn proof cable, which makes the wire from the powersupply both long enough and flexible enough that I don't notice that it's there, in fact, I have better reach with this iron than one that is tethered to a station on your desk.. :) But yes, it's not an iron that will replace your JBC. Can't expect a 60 bucks soldering iron to beat out a 1000+ bucks or whatever that 130W JBC costs and that's not the intention either. But I'd wager that it's faster to heat up and more capable than the Hakko 888, only that the Hakko 888 handle would be more comfortable to use over longer periods. The ergonomics of the TS100 handle isn't the greatest.
Need a cheap source for silicone 2 conductor cable for your TS100? Search "silicone cord tattoo" on Fleabay. $5-6 gets you 6 feet of super flexible cable delivered to your door. Don't forget to pick up a 5.5mm x 2.5mm Male DC jack for a buck as well.
videos like this are why I keep coming back to your channel over and over!
It is funny reading some of the comments. I have been through different irons and technologies. I had 25 watt and 15 watt firesticks back at ITT and I learned to solder with them, our professors were real sticklers about our soldering. People lost points on projects for their soldering. I purchased a Hakko 926 when I was tasked with replacing caps in LCD monitors at work. I had that for 7 years and it worked fine for my use. Cleaning out the garage gave me some disposable income and I got a Hakko FX-951 and then a deal on a Metcal MX-500P, not because I needed them but I wanted them and could finally afford them. Purely from a subjective standpoint, the FX-951 and Metcal absolutely blow the other equipment I had away. The 926 was light years better than the firesticks I had and the FX-951 and Metcal are light years past the 926. FYI, I use the 600 (650F) series tips for the Metcal for leaded and 800 series for lead free. I don't have or feel the need to have the same tips in different temps. I've soldered to ground planes with a 3.2 mm tip instantly. I also never really change the temp on the Hakko, I stay at 650F there also. I know it's more heat than maybe I should use, but I never get to the 3 second rule I had drummed into me at ITT. One second and done.
What it comes down to, if you solder a lot, buy the best you can, even if it takes some time to save for it. Instant gratification really isn't. If you are a very occasional solderer, you don't have to go top shelf. I don't ever laugh or denigrate people for what they use or can afford to buy. I am grateful for what I have but I am no fanboy willing to ram my choices down anyone's throat. All I can say is that over the 3 years or so I have been part of the Blog, I have seen numerous threads/posts on people buying cheaper tools and then spending time and energy trying to make them work better or complaining about them. Why? What is your time worth? What's your level of aggravation worth? My father may have been an uneducated man but he was a smart man. He ingrained into me, buy the best tool you can, buy it right and buy it once. Replacing poorer quality tools more often or continually upgrading will cost much more in the long run than buying the better tool upfront, even if the cost is more painful at the time.
Very relevant video. It was due to your previous video ( old versus new) that I became aware of the newer technology in some of the tips. Thanks.
Glad to hear, thanks
About one year ago I've made soldering station for those JBS irons. They are great !! Soldering are pleasure now.
I use Ersa i-con 1 at work. An excellent iron for soldering at speed and heat delivery is very good on ground planes. but replacement elements are very expensive
hue I have the icon nano, which uses the same heater as the icon 1. Have you seen lots of heater failure?
The Pace ADS200 is $150 cheaper, delivers 120watts and has 40 tip types all under $15 (with a reputation of being the best tips in the industry). In a few weeks, Dave will be able to judge why Pace is cutting prices this way... it could be a game changer - let's see. I have one coming my way too.
I have only been through two heater elements in 5 months, but the the tips don't last long. We use genuine Ersa replacement tips, but even after good care of the tips they only last two week of heavy useage.
Previous Pace model owners report tip life in years. Let's see if sacrifices have been made on the new one..
You sir are a genius!!!
Just wonderful to be in your presence and observe. 👍🏼
I didn’t actually know how the metcal tips worked, so thanks for that!
I have a 951D and have never used an 888. I believe the 888 uses a thermistor to sense the tip, not a thermocouple. I have found a Hakko patent for an integrated tip. If this is correct for the T15 series, the heating element and the thermocouple are one in the same. It consists of thick Kanthal D, then thin Kanthal D. This thin section is the part that heats up. Then the other metal is thick Ni Chrome. So the thick sections do not heat up while all sections are part of the thermocouple. There is a thermistor in the handle for monitoring the cold end temperature. The control alternately heats and measures so the iron will always pulse.
It is a great iron I would buy again and recommend to friends.
What kind of regulation is used in those irons?
I think Hakko and Weller just switch the heater on and off with some hysteresis around setpoint (bang-bang), but JBC obviously uses something more sophisticated, like PI/PID or similar regulation.
I love that you have so many measurement devices that you are using the Agilent as a kickstand.
Hi all: Have you heard of the technique of inserting some sort of copper foil or cream into the air gap of the Hakko type tips (between the slip-on tip and the ceramic heating element) to increase heat transfer to the tip? Does this work?
The more I see you and Louis ramble about soldering irons, the more I want a new station.
You are easily influenced
@9:05 I like how the Power Analyser is propped up by the LCD Meter...
Vikram B You do what you have to do to get the shot! But I noticed as well, makes for a good chuckle.
Ethan Poole, Yep. Its sure does.
It's a really good video Dave,thanks for all you have explained perfectly.
Instead of second guessing, hook a scope up to the thermistor and heater connections inside and know how much thermal lag or if poor control looping is an issue.
Hakko has the FX-100RF in response to the Metcal RF design. I like the new tech, but the 951 interface is anything but new. A review of the FX-950 which IS available in AU might poke a stick in the sides of HakkoUSA who seem to have decided not to import that unit to NA. Funny though, the parts list for the 950 show 110V and 120V transformers are available.
The tip _IS,_ usually, the most sensitive part.
I think the ERSA icon stations still use old style tips but they do work pretty nice. My old ersa station also has a decent thermal transfer and the fit is much tighter, the heater is like the hakko but solidly encased in metal. I found just the tip style can make a lot of difference, a longer tip compared pretty bad to the shorter ones.
I have a Ersa Nano and this one heats up within 5 to 10 seconds, has a sleep function the best handpiece ever and very thin silicone leads.
Just clicked on the Video because i saw the hakko style tips compared to direct heating technology and had the exact thing in mind. Ersa has pretty much perfected the "old stlye" The power graph on my icon 1 v shoots up immedeatly after putting the tip on a copper plane. Plus the controls with the rotary encoder make much more sense than all of this button rubbish. The ersa toolstands also are better imo, because they are sooo damn simple but yet so nice to use. Tips are dirt cheap and are pretty much indestructible.
So in theory if you threw a bunch of thermal paste into the tip of the old design would that be helpful? There is non-conductive thermal paste around if we're worried about that aspect but I could imagine a real thermal paste being significantly improved compared to just a simple air gap, right? And if it does help would your thermal paste plus old-style soldering iron be remotely comparable with a new style soldering iron, or would it just be an unnoticeable improvement?
I was wondering if some copper wool stuffed in the end would improve thermal transfer while watching. Or maybe if Hakko had used a screw on the inside of the tip and thread on the heater.
I may try the copper wool trick.
It will, but in practice a piece of aluminum foil will do a better job. But not too much foil, aluminum foil can melt and fuse the tip to heating element.
A review of the TS-100 would be interesting. About 180 AUD for an iron, PSU and collection of tips. Looks interesting. Would it replace a high end JBC, Metcal or Weller? Maybe not but it could be an iron to throw into the car glove box as an emergency spare.
They have special tools for this? I've been using a butane lighter.
I recommend an upgrade to a butter knife on the stove top. Much better performance over the bic.
here I been using metal clothes hanger and propane torch
isn`t technology something great? wonder what they will think of next ?
by the way did they ever get that home computer thing sorted out or am I stuck with my old punch card reader with vacuum bulbs forever
WOW never thunk oh dat tanks for da infermation
No joke, my uncle soldered radio kits for fun and profit on her mother's kitchen using the butane range and a nail held with pliers.
I use a magnifying glass, needless to say, soldering takes a while during the winter season..
I never heard of the curie point RF heating technology in a soldering iron. Fascinating video!
Thanks Dave, great explenation. This means that the update Rate of the old Style Irons, are not fast enough to respond the conditions of the Tip.
Thank you for the video.
I think it is actually possible to make this "old" technology works much better with just software tweaks and change in sensing circuit.
I love my Metcal soldering station, but that doesn't mean you have to love it too.
agreed. i love my JBC, but thats maybe because i went from a "xytronic LF1600" - which wasnt bad for the price - directly to the more professional and way more expensive professional solution.
i guess there are certain discussion objects which will inevitably lead to heated up arguments: which is the "best" soldering iron, the "best" oscilloscope, the "best" microcontroller… well here we go again! ^^
i have used multiple layers of aluminum foil in between heater and tip , to make it a snug fit for 900 m tips and the capacity of the iron has increased to as good as my 951
I was just wondering about this too. I recently had to do a job on a board to remove connectors that were on massive copper traces and the heat on my Hakko 926 struggled even on full blast. That's what led me to this video.
I have Metcal MX5200, Hakko 951, and TS100. My personal preference is Metcal. It can heat up the position pin of the rj45 jack in 2 seconds. Hakko could do the same job within 5 seconds. The TS100 with factory firmware only give me crap joints on the rj45.
Hi Dave,
It's been an absolute BEAR for me and finding a proper soldering station and the tips I need. The 900M-T-xC seems what I will have to go with (I am planning SMT soldering, Dragging, and the like and just can't--for the world--get ahold of a 'welled' tip--the 900M-T-xCM series. Your power transfer video was especially useful. I have n FX937D ($37.00 from ebay) and just tonight got a 900M-T-0.5C tip. At first it would NOT slide onto the ceramic element--I saw that the problem was overlapping silver onto the tip. I shaved it out and the tip slid right on. Then I noticed this: At some sections of the tip bottom, I could see a wee bit of white ceramic! But it fit. It looks like it might work as long as I am careful not to over-tighten and damage the ceramic piece.
At first, I was really disappointed, then thinking about what you said about the high thermal resistance between the tip and the heating element, in my case, I have a direct contact between the tip and the top of the ceramic heater--My thought was that this might actually improve the thermal conductivity (lessen the thermal resistance between the heater and tip! What do 'ya'll' think?...haven't tried it yet. The tip that comes with it seems to fit all the way down, still with a bit of gap at the top.
--daLe
What if you put like.. Thermal grease inbetween the heater element and the tip? If you fix the heat transfer "problem" they should behave more similarly right?
The main issue with the hakko style irons is that the ceramic element does not reach the end of the tip, creating a gap. It is possible to remove 1 or 2 mm from the cylinder by filing it down. Just remove the ceramic element, and file down the tube. I have done this on 2 wands now, and it helps performance greatly each time. It removes the ferrule, which does not matter. I suppose you could also try some fine copper wool, and wrap it around the ceramic element, but I did not try this.
Here's a thought. When the tip is installed, there's a small gap over the top of the element and an air gap of about 0.35mm (0.014") around the element on each side (on mine anyway). Cut some some fine stranded copper wire about 50mm (2") long and keep the strands straight and parallel side by side. Give them 1 or 2 twists in the very center and then fan them out. Lay it centered on top of the element, fan out the strands like an umbrella and fold the strands down over the sides of the element then slide the tip on (adjust the length and number of strands to get a fit). You could wrinkle the wire a little to give it some spring. That would be easy and just might work.
It worked. The strands I used are 0.25mm. Had some trouble with a used tip because it was rough on the inside, but a new one twisted right on fairly snug. Make your 2 twists short and tight. After you form the strands down against the element, slide the umbrella out a little from the tip and press it a little with your fingers so the tip will go over it. Then twist the tip on slowly in one direction.
It seems that a quite useful feature on the JBC direct drive controller would be a MAXIMUM "POWER" setting. Perhaps 25% to 75% power range when enabled??
On the Hakko, how loose it is and any air gap: I think you forgot about thermal expansion. Have you checked how loose it is when heated up to temp?
Ted Milker it's still pretty loose. Can't be too tight, you got to be able to change the tip while hot
Ted Milker on my Hakko I replace tips on the fly without waiting for them to cool down and they slip out without any issue, so thermal expansion is not really relevant
Thermal expansion of ceramics is usually lower than the thermal expansion of metals so, given the tip profile and the way it 'locks' with the heating element, chances are that there is even more of a gap between the ceramic heater and the tip itself, apart from the point-contact at the top of the element.
Gee, this answers questions I had for years with my little Hako. I bought a bigger tip and boosted the temp setting, but even with that I'd wonder why the on light wasn't on while I was waiting. I assumed the thermocouple was too far from the tip. It certainly is worse if the tip housing isn't tight. As you say, you can appreciate an unfortunate heat cycling that is a great waste of time for long projects.
Coming back to this video years later, it really is interesting how many people have basically adopted portable irons like the TS100 as their primary soldering iron.
Well explained, people tend to mistake thermal resistance with thermal capacitance. Even they are related, but not the same.
Some induction type irons are adjustable like the Xytronic ones, they use low voltage high frequency AC and a temperature probe that inserts into the back of the tip. Instead of using the curie point of the tip they use a PID loop to control temperature. Some of those are quite powerful up to 200W.
This is a much better comparison. The advantages of the new design are clear. However, even if the lifetime tip cost balances out and if I were to use it enough for tip life to be significant, I will still refuse to buy such a station on principle, they just price them too high; Absolutely no reason the tip design should significantly effect the station base price, and certainly not by $500.
Well you don't have the buy the expensive JBC. The Hakko FX-951 should perform just as well.
go to aliexpress dot com and search for fx-951. It's $47 + shipping to get one of the knockoff "new" style stations.
I think around $30 with free shipping as a DIY bag-of-parts kind of deal, just look for T12 kits on banggood, though you get a horrid $2 handle with that, you can consider an upgrade later to something more decent for extra less than $15 or so.
The T12 tip only has two active terminals, not 3. The third terminal is just for the earthing. The way this works, the heater and a K-type thermocouple are connected in series, you have a digital control soldering station, and a few dozen times a second, it stops heating, and measures the temperature for a few milliseconds, it can't do these two things at once. Now if you had to adapt it to your existing 968 electronics, you would for one potentially have to account for different measuring methods - i don't remember whether Aoyue uses thermocouple (that generates a voltage depending on temperature) or a thermistor (that is measured in a resistive voltage divider), and for other you'd need to subtract the AC it drives the heater at, and extract a tiny little voltage, so it's going to be challenging. I think JBC also uses the same system where thermocouple and heater are in series. Note how smart this is because nichrome can be used both as the heater material and as one side of the thermocouple.
Barry Manilowa Various soldering stations use different approaches to heating (inductive, resistance) and sensing temperature (e.g. thermocouple, thermistor, sensing change in resistance of heating element, etc.). So you would have to find an older style soldering station that was designed to use the same style temperature sensing interface as that used by the new style soldering iron otherwise you will either have all heat or no heat because the temperature feedback loop no longer worked. But if you can find an old style base that was compatible with the new style soldering iron then it could certainly be done provided the wattage of the new soldering iron was more or less identical as well (to avoid overloading the existing transformer in the base).
Hmm I wonder if the Weller LT series soldering tips are any better/worse? They have a flat surface to conduct the heat to the tip and there is positive pressure pulling the tip to the heater.
Should of checked the actual temp of tips using the soldering iron tip thermometer.
Could you use some thermal compound in these "old style" irons to reduce efficiency loss from the airgap?
Hi Dave ..... can you do a test putting heat sink compound into the tips of the "loosy goosey" ones to see if that can fix the fact that there is an empty air gap in there. Or will that damage the ceramic element ? Regards ... Tom
I´ve remember Danfoss recommends using and sells a thermal compound to be applied to temperature sensing bulbs when assembled into thermowells. This paste seems to have silver flakes to better heat transmission.
I had *TS100*, theretically exactly the same as hakko 951, same power, same technology, but for some reason it's performing like a crap.
I had measured everything, voltage and current readings look to be fine, 65W peak as advertised, 8 Ohms at the heating element, but the performance isnt there, I don't know why, that's a mystery for me.
I'm quite desperated and thinking about JBCs iron but with that popular open source DIY station(unisolder from dangerous prototypes).
Arek R. Did you try the open source firmware for it? To me the pid on the open source one is better than the factory. I've used one for about a year and I'm very happy it, I've taken my hakko clone to storage. Guess it depends on what you do with it, I mostly do smd and wires and hobby stuff.
NS Gaming Yeah I got that open source firmware, still potato...
Interesting to hear a negative review of it instead of just endless praise that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
if you're using a low voltage power supply, it will perform poorly. find a power supply that is rated for the ts-100's max. voltage
it performs like one single crap?
I do not own a TS-100 soldering iron but as for what you mentioned about the "burnproof flexible lead" isn't that a choice of your own with the TS-100?
And for the power supply, who doesn't have a few lying around, now they can be put to good use. I do see the positive sides of the TS-100.
Javier Palla Lorden Yes, the hobbyist could certainly order silicone cable for their iron. But how many hobbyists realize the importance of using silicone insulated cable? To go to the added effort and expense to secure such cable you must first know why such is an important consideration and why you should insist upon it. As a hobbyist one oftentimes only learns those valuable lessons after the fact.
Need a cheap source for silicone 2 conductor cable for your TS100? Search "silicone cord tattoo" on Fleabay. $5-6 gets you 6 feet of super flexible cable delivered to your door. Don't forget to pick up a 5.5mm x 2.5mm Male DC jack for a buck as well.
couldn't inductive soldering irons cause problems by inducing current in your electronics?
I’ve just brought a jbc after watching your TS80 video
I do have a Metcal MX500 soldering station and I also have a TS100 and some other cheaper irons, which one do I use all the time? None of the above! I use a soldering gun or my homemade LI-Ion battery powered soldering iron using a Metcal tip, which I have a video of on my channel, I use them because they are convenient and the tips are basically free especially on a soldering gun. I know that it's hard to use but if you master it, you're golden. Awesome video. Keep up the good work. Cheers :)
just add 10cm solder wire inside tip hole and asmble it while heater is on . wire will melt and thermal resistance is highly reduced :)
It is curious that this technology be taken advantage of as the alloy of choice by any given maker has taken a page from the “Black Smith’s” hand book. As metal of unknown alloy reaches a temperature that allows for the quench and hardening, it looses it magnetic properties. This simple technique with color of heated metal is checked by the Black Smith with a magnet. If it has an attraction to g to the heated metal, it is not hot enough to cool and result in a very hard tool. So a chisel, blade or high ware item has reach the proper temperature a magnet does not stick. Time to quench in oil. Below this crucial temp, the metal won’t be hard and a file will dig into it.
Now come the soldering iron. As the correct alloy is chosen, heated it looses its magnetic properties yet at a proper temp to melt all solders used in the electrical market. The “Curie” point helps by the beginning loss of magnetic properties of the alloy. This makes it possible for it to toggle on and off as magnetic properties begin to change.
The chicken or egg question can be answered. The Black Smith come first and the engineer came last.
I enjoy learning even while retired, it is new to me that the “Curie” point is the name of what a Black Smith has known for centuries. Just didn’t know it had a name. Now you can design a soldering iron after testing different alloys, then use the magnetic properties to control heat at the business end. Cheers!
Cert. Automotive ASE Master tech since 1978, retired.
Thats a nice pair of tips you got there.
Dave is always playing with his tips on camera.
The weller also has more surface area to apply heat to the tip, compared to the Hakko. But I'm still happy to have the Hakko. :)
I just remember an 90's battery powered soldering iron that the tip connected to the handle with an RCA style connector. The heating element was inside the tip. It worked OK.
It's nice to compare therma circuit with electrical. I also use it to design heatsinks. But it doesn't explain delay in the regulation as resistors as the resistir divider reacts immediately. You should store the energy so better model is to add the capacitors.
From the heat element to sensing element (Rh-s), Sensing element to the tip (Rs-t) and the third one between the tip and soldered joint (Rt-j). Then there is a thermal capacity of both tip (Ct) and the soldered joint (Cj) represented by a capacitors.
The Ct is charged before soldering and when you put the tip to the joint rhe Rt-j drops down and you charge the Cj from the Ct with some delay. It takes a time to drop the Ct charge and the regulator react when the Ct charge drops down...
Yes, I said I deliberately kept it simple.
I have an ATTEN ST-100 station, it performs excellent, it uses Weller LT series tips and those are simply clever little pieces of tech.
I am using the station for over a year now and the only thing I bought were a few of original Weller LT series tips for smd work.
BTW: No flames here my friend. I always value your input.
I have a 60w chinese soldering iron and I've made my own tips. Bought it for about 4 bucks and works great. This guy can view a simple glass and found 1000 problems. Life is simple. Keep it that way and you'll live more.
Old, but I wonder, can they make some kind of high temperature thermal paste for the heating element and the tip?
Dave you should try home brewing a soldering iron controller for the JBC.
I just thought about something: Could you increase thermocoupling by pouring a little bit of copper dust into the tip? It looks kind of loose. Fine copper dust could act like a thermalpaste. Can you try that?
I don't think that would make the tip get stuck. But hey, you got a whole bunch of Irons. :D
Russians use either graphite dry-lubricant or copper brake grease.
@@SianaGearz Oooh graphite that's a good idea
I wanna be a TS100 fanboy. But i don't know why?
So please push out the video!!!
I bought an ali cheap 110v variable temp iron by mistake for oz 220v. But instead of burning element the tip got crazy red glowing hot. I use it often when needing the extra heat. Not all types will continue to work but the Ali one with small led display in handle works great over voltaged.
I went from old ERSA DIY clone to used metcal (two of them). I love them, they just work. For travel I use the TS-100 and I don't love it. It's uncomfortable but it is the best you can fit in your bag.
Very interesting Dave! Always wanted to know about this! Thank's!
I would like to see you reveiw and/or compare the ts- 100 to other irons you have.
In theory, and with some tools an knowledge, you can do a DIY better controller for any tip (with any microC). But is really necessary to model the "losses of Tip" and measure the tip temperature in design state. Actually is not so difficult, I made some diagrams for a DIY universal solder/de-soldering station (for almost any tip, cheap or new jbc tips) using a cheap STM32, and also with a smart design you can resolve the "changing" tip temperature issues using different tips for jobs.
But what if we put some thermal paste like in computer cpu to get bigger thermal transfer between tip n element?
What about a system used in Quick-branded irons - with magnetic heating and a long, solid tip, possibly giving a much better reading from the sensor?
Some google searches found a few high temperature thermal compounds. The Silicone Solutions SS-240 seems to be a reasonable cost one up to the task. I bet it'd be worth trying as an experiment.
Try smearing inside of tip and element with thermal grease and then you will find that you can dial down the heat on the station
I guess Weller has temperature gradient from measurement point to the end of tip. It is like thermal resistance from one end of the tip to the other. From construction point I'd assume the difference to be less than on Hakko that has measurement point yet furher away.
you right about the Ts 100 ,I have bought one for 36 euro's its nice but no replacement for the desk one's
Great explanation, Insteresting soldering tip technology :)
The physical decoupling of the Hakko tip gives you a much higher temperature gradient between the tip and the element thermocouple. Physics!
Ok I'm late to this party. Is there a way to make a better thermal connection from the ceramic element to the inside bore of the tip???? My jar of thermal paste says 400F max. I do have some copper screen I could stuff in there but I still need to change tips from time to time. How about the T12 irons. Can I run a T12 handle on my existing station? Maybe some wavy copper sheet in the air gap. It's still better than the air gap. The copper sheet will be fully annealed after a while. I don't know but I keep thinking about it.
Dave does the tip in JBC iron can spin around when you for example put some force on chisel tip sideways ? I don't see any spin-blocking element on the tip or handle whatsoever. It would be fu***ng annoying if you want to put some force into big cruty joint.
TS100 not a bench iron? Prove it!
on the weller, is the thermocouple spring loaded? that would be a big factor in the performance of the sensor.
Thanks for clearing this up.
actually on the HaKKO you have another ceramic tube inside the ceramic tube that separate sensor from the heater
I take aluminum foil and wrap it around the ceramic heating element until the interchangeable tip fits snuggly. So far that has been taking care of most of the hysteresis.
Looking forward to see how the new PACE compares to these other soldering systems. If it has a direct drive tip at 130W just like the JBC, but at 1/2 the price!
Yeah, looks very nice for the price, we'll see
Do you think it would help if you packed the inside of the tip on the Hakko with thermal paste?
When will you continue on the DataIO Programmer? It's a interesting piece of equipment.
Yes, but my USB floppy drive isn't formatting the required 720KB disks. I've been tweeting about this.
Hi. What about using thermal paste in old style iron solders (between ceramic and tip) for a better thermal conduction?
So I've never used temperature-controlled irons, I've always used your basic plug in irons with either a rheostat or dimmer switch to regulate the temperature myself.
Seems like my solution may be producing BETTER soldering than some of the cheap stations, because I crank the power up based on 'feel' when I know I'm going to need it. It's not a direct-drive tip, but since I can blast full power when I'm on a big ground plane I'm not held back by the bad control loops. Neat
The nice thing about the very cheapest stations is that they don't have displays and buttons, they have a big friendly knob that you turn to set the temperature, and if you have to, you can just crank it up to 450°C and solder away on your big ground plane. I find that it works much nicer than adjusting the power, even though you do have to adjust them quite frequently potentially depending on what you're doing.
Actually, the regulated stations are a better solution. Your solution inherently limits the power available to the iron to "sort of" regulate temperature but the moment your soldering iron tip contacts a thermally conductive part that tip temperature drops dramatically unless you then dial up the power (by way of dialing up the voltage). By comparison, the regulated stations will always attempt to automatically maintain their set temperature at all times and will dynamically adjust their output power to maintain that set temperature and you may set that temperature point at whatever you want (up to about 450C).
As for whether one prefers an older regulated station with just a knob or a newer design station with digital display, it is more a six of one, half dozen of another (for non-English speakers: a 6 of 6 scenario, in other words, equal), scenario as both do exactly the same thing. The only advantage to those with digital displays is that you may set an exact temperature each time and they typically display actual measured tip temperature when in operation plus they are easy to calibrate since you can just program in the necessary offset if you want all your stations to produce the exact same tip temperature when set to the same temperature (not terribly critical in a hobby environment). But otherwise both type stations are effectively identical for the most part until you get into the really high end stations.
I can tell where this video lives in the series based on the amount of solder on your copper plate. :)
Do you have a video on tip cleaning and tinning?
Can you test performance of old tip, when used with thermal paste to reduce core-tip resistance? It could be the last usage, but you know... for science ;)
I have my doubts about your analysis of the performance here. In particular, the Hakko decimal point looks to be *blinking* at a fixed rate when it's on, not on steadily. You were on the right track with the power meter, but measuring at the wrong point. You'd need to splice in a meter, preferably analog for the response time, to measure the current to the handpiece itself. Likewise, the power bar on the fancy iron is probably showing a smoothed output, not instantaneous values.
At the end of the day, 130W is always going to trump 65W of available power. The reduced thermal resistance is going to avoid some temperature sag between the sensor and the tip under heavy load. However, simply adding more power to the existing Hakko design risks overheating the top, again because of the less accurate control loop.
The Hakko is not blinking at a fixed rate, it is load dependent.
The LED is indeed the "heater on" signal. The frequency and duty cycle will vary with thermal load. Because the heater is either off or on, it is not proportionally regulated, and there is a time delay between the heater turning on or off and that event reaching the tip and temperature sensor there is a delay in the feedback loop where the frequency varies moderately and the duty cycle can vary quite a lot.
hey dave, have you tryed the TS100 "open source" soldering iron ? Have any opinion on that piece of equipement ?
All I have is a crappy old Weller WES51, so any of these would be a step up for me.
HI all,
...a followup to my previous msg: I am thinking about 'beveling' the top edge of the ceramic heater in order to get improved contact between the sensor and the tip. The reason I am restocking parts and can't test them yet is because a flood recently wiped out my (Electronic Room),...what my nieces dubbed my workshop. I decided to start with the soldering station. I have a 937D station ($37 ebay) but am starting that may be a bad choice--any suggestions?