"I was created to be the catalyst for peace between organics and synthetics" *Reapers and your forces blowing the shit out of each other in background*
Peace can only come after conflict has been resolved, through war :P War arise when long lasting peace creates conflict through difference in interests.
4:28 Starchild in a straight face after liquifying bazillion people: “What war? I see no war, I am Gandhi reborn and it is all your fault. Go to a corner feel bad for yourself.” Grade A gaslighting 🤣
The catalyst should've assumed the form of the person who died on Virmire, it would've been way more disturbing and would've affected me more than some kid I didn't care about.
@Bruinsbiggestbear It's out of place, but would be better if Shepard turns into a Reaper Titan and fights the Harbinger. then he can decide the fate of the Galaxy
yo dawg we herd you dont like it when synthetics destroy organics so we invented synthetics to destroy organics so that synthetics wouldnt destroy organics.
@@Fragenzeichenplatte 10 year old comment dude lol. But yeah, that was an annoying trend back then of literally everybody forgetting that Reapers don't kill things, they harvest and essentially archive them.
lmao i love catalyst smart ass response...it was clearly offensive when Shepard said "your just an AI?" Catalyst: "In as much as you are just an animal" ....Im dead lol.
5 million people died during this 12 minute conversation congratulations shepherd you could have cut that in half if you just asked which option was best
Asked the catalyst or the people dying? For the latter: A) No galaxy-level reaching radio to communicate with everyone around. B) Everything that isn’t geth is not geth. They can’t communicate in lightspeed and build a consensus in a span of 12 minutes XD. I’m sure you probably meant the former, but just thought I’d let that out there for the hell of it :).
@@str8apem88geth would fight organics it would just take a long time but then someone would start a war with them again and the conflict would start again
With all this happening, it seems like the Catalyst could have avoided the entire Reaper harvesting cycles by just doing something else extremely simple which they have proven to do before. Why don't they just control all Synthetics that rebel, as they are created? If conflict starts, all they need to do is control the Synthetics and stop them. Organics can create Synthetics, and live peacefully with them, but if they rebel, they will be stopped in an instant. It seems like the Catalyst would EASILY be able to set a system up like that.
The issue might be that synthethics can guide their evolution and at one point free themselves from reaper control creating an opposing force. Lets assume that what the catalyst is saying is true and it has tried a large amount of possible solutions before. Since it has easily taken control over the Geth it must have had some expierience with AIs before. It must have had failed on multiple occasions if this solution was abandoned. Perhaps the reason was that it tried to control and not coexist. This would be quite probable since in the blue ending Shepard takes over as the AI and adds his understanding of things to it which allows him to understand the desires of organics and cold calculative way of thinking of AIs. Allowing him to be a sort of a mediator between the two.
Somehow the scream of the Illusive Man's ghost at about 8:46 has burned itself into my mind since I first heard it in 2012. Very small and random but pungent detail.
I kind of wish the Catalyst didn't refer to the Reapers, so casually as "Reapers". Only because of how Sovereign (Game 1 - conversation with Sovereign) dismissed the concept as a mere name to give a label to their inevitable destruction. They are likely nameless. The Catalyst refers to the Crucible as "The device you refer to as the Crucible.", it'd make sense for the same to be said about the term "Reaper".
if you litsen closley you can hear that it is also the female and male voice actors for Shepard, in the right ear it is male and the left is female Shepard... or the other way around
Shepard: Who are you? Catalyst: I'm the boy you did not save when you fled Earth. I also appear in your dreams? Don't you find it odd that you would not ask me why I appear in your dreams or when you fled Earth?
I've always been confused how the catalyst claims that the reapers are basically just synthetics doing what they're programmed to do but yet Sovereign and Harbinger seemed to have a personal grudge against Shepherd and humanity and individual egos of their own.
*Me:* "Couldn't you just use the Reapers as a passive galactic peacekeeping force that would intervene in the event of synthetic rebellion or conflict?" *Catalyst:* "Huh... a billion years and tens of thousands of cycles of galactic genocide to harvest intelligent species into new Reapers that ultimately add to our collective consciousness, and I never thought of that. OK. Let's try that."
Mass Effect is still one of my favourite game trilogies of all time. I'm looking forward to Mass Effect Andromeda. Do you remember your epic quest to stop Saren? The revelation that Sovereign was an actual Reaper? The bonds you created thru the trilogy. Memories. I would love to see Drew Karpyshhyn's ending to Mass Effect 3. Remember he is the one who wrote the three novels, except Deception. He also was the lead writer on Mass Effect 1 & 2, but then he left. I still feel the extended ending of ME 3 was a closure, but I would of loved to see DK's vision come true.
What’s interesting (and something I didn’t notice ‘til rewatching this) is that you can hear both voice actors for Shepard (male and female version) dubbing the Catalyst Kid’s dialogue in the left and right speaker. Nice touch.
Yet it allows multiple Reapers to be destroyed when it uses them to carry out the harvest and fight the species in that cycle, then doesn't try to preserve the Quarians even though they have the biggest risk being killed off by synthetics.
There's nothing wrong with the kid. The vision of the child plays on Shepard's guilt throughout the entire game. The child was never there, and was always in Shepard's mind. That's made clear when the kid disappears after Shepard tries to rescue him. You hear the Reaper growl and when Shepard looks back, the child is gone. Then again, when the kid is seen getting aboard the shuttle. No one else seems to see the child, or helps him. Only Shepard can see him.
@@zairman EVERYTHING is wrong with the kid, for the very reasons that you posted. He clearly doesn't exist. And MY Shepard should feel more for the losses he suffered such as Kaiden. The hologram should have been Harbinger, like in the Arrival DLC.
I guess the point is that it can't be forced by the reapers, but an organic choosing it is different or something. Still stupid, like many things in the ending.
i've never actualy finished mass effect 3, but how can you hate the ending of mass effect, if you listened to this dialogue, OH WAIT IT WAS DLC RIGHT thanks bioware
You know, I hadn't realized that. It makes a lot of sense now that you say that. Hmm. Well, I'm still going to go with the Indoctrination Theory for now, but I'm impressed with how many different concepts that this new DLC is allowing for why the ending is happening.
This may look like complete mumbo jumbo at first but, in the 3rd or 4th time you listen to this whole thing, knowing the whole game, you realize ME3 ending is just perfect.
Thankyou! I completely agree, I think most people went into mass effect 3 thinking it would just end with a one on one boss battle with harbinger, but that would just be silly. When you think about it, this ending sums of mass effect entirely; it's all about choice.
What would have been better is to be able to convince the Starchild that peace is possible between synthetics and organics and opt to have the Reapers assist you as a Paragon or destroy them as a Renegade for example. Would have still required less effort on their part rather than the 16 endings they promised and people wouldn't be as passed off that Shepard dies at the end.
Aaah, I think I see it now. They accelerated the evolution in order to repeat the cycles with more efficiency until they could find a more permanent solution. Shepard showed up in this cycle and that might have been what the iterations of the cycles were meant to find. Someone of the right stock and the willingness to FREELY choose synthesis. Could be, could be...
Were the scenes of the epilogue showing up in the Catalyst dialogue always there after EC, or is that a more recent update? I have EC but don't remember them. I haven't watched the ending in over a year though, so maybe I forgot. This crap still pisses me off...
you know what i just realised Even 10 years later if you listen to the voice of the Catalyst you can hear Male shepard or female shepard voice mixxed in with a kid voice depending on weather you picked male or female shep. Youll notice Male shepards voice much better because of its Deeper tone but you can still hear the female shepard voice if you play as femshep.
Destroy option makes sense in a generational context.. if another shepard comes around for the next generation, he will have to make a decision himself, say you don't like the synthesis option, which i find creapy, control option is neat no?
The only slightly way I could ever feel even a little bit bad for it was the fact that it was created to deal with a problem that has no real good answer to it. Aside from that, I hate it.
Ah, yes. I had forgotten about that. Yeah, TIM loved his Reaper tech... It really came back to bite him, though, and, depending on your playthrough, may have screwed Shepard over in the long run. And I could see that.
How do you unlock those extra scenes and dialogues with the Catalyst? I played through Mass Effect 3 many times and I never saw nor did I ever hear those new dialogues. Is this only in the Xbox360 and PC Extended Cuts?
Catalyst is a creation of Leviathan Catalyst says: creations will destroy creators, this is the fate; Organic life is also a creation of Leviathan; So... In reality, Catalyst is stopping organic evolution so we cannot destroy Leviathan one day.
They suggest that, too, actually Miranda's dialogue during the Cerberus base mission suggests that they put unknown (probably Reaper origin, as suggested by the tech at that base) implants into Shepard during the resurrection process, giving the Catalyst the angle it needed to take that last shot at breaking Shepard. I think the scene where TIM shoots Anderson is actually Shepard shooting himself.
Fifth ending? I was only aware of four after the extended cut DLC. What do you mean "the whole point of the character is that he's mental?" I felt the starchild was abysmally written, but that would be a flaw of the writer; not a character defect.
The difference between Creator and Created existences. The schism is there, but with Synthesis, the problem is solved. They are unified, they are both more than they were, they understand each other perfectly, more than they ever could have. Organics and Synthetics still exists, but Synthesis brings about Empathy, a profound and inherent enlightenment between these two extreme dualities of existence. (Though, it is SciFi - there is quite a bit of interpretation and inference there.) If Synthesis is chosen, the Reapers stop. The problem and purpose for which they were created is solved and made obsolete. Do you think that the peace between the Quarians and the Geth is infinite? What about all other life out there? Do you really think Creator and Created would not fight and war against each other, ever? In a 1,000 years? What about 1 million years? You can't force True Peace. Coerced peace. 'Peace' as only option to survive. Peace to end hostilities. Peace for fear of war. True Peace comes with Empathy, understanding, and tolerance of each others perspectives and behaviours. Peace. One possibility for the end of peace between (to at least some) Quarians and the Geth would be getting involved in a war waged by another paradigm of Creator and Created. No clear peaceful, unified solution is found. The schism is reopened, (some) Quarian side with the other Organics, see their solution as more valid; (some) Geth side with the other Synthetics, see their solution as more valid. Or vice-versa. As for the notion of 'forcing' Synthesis on the galaxy... Would you rather die, or feel empathy? Would you rather kill, or feel empathy? And everything in between. In war, innocence always suffer. If innocence has to suffer Empathy to end the war and, in turn, the inherent conflict between Organics and Synthetics, then "so be it." Plus, with Synthesis, the Reapers, ie, the essence of easily (assuming 2 billions years of this and a cycle being 50,000 years) 40,000 races, species, peoples, cultures, etc are preserved. All that history, all those stories and perspectives... You can't attain that with Destroy. You can with Control, but it does not solve the problem.
Despite what many think, this isn't a bad ending. The only bad thing is the fact that the only way you can continue in the Mass Effect is to make Destroy canon.
You're missing the point.. the Reapers thought organic and synthetic life would eventually destroy each other completely. The Reapers harvested certain species, while letting others thrive, so that organic life was never completely wiped out. In the meantime, each harvested species would take on the form of a new Reaper, so that their collective knowledge, culture, civilization, and genetic makeup would be preserved forever...
No, actually if you listen closely to what the Catalyst says, it turned on its original creators. It was the first and biggest synthetic rebel. The Catalyst's idea of a solution is to make synthetics better than any organic, capable of ruling forever. The Catalyst is a big liar and works Shepard pretty hard to get what it wants.
I gave you a long answer in a previous comment but now I might have changed my mind lol. Perhaps the catalyst actually were biased and had a drive for dominance and self-preservation and even "fear". This without knowing that that was what made it "preserve" the first species. It thought it was acting rationally since it was a rational creation, but just like the geth, it had a "soul" and that soul had self interests and it became power hungry, and blind to it. Rationalizing its own urges with "this is the logical conclusion" and "I am doing this simply to preserve organic life" but deep down there was some voice that said "I want to be part of evolution and will find a way that suits me". Maybe you can summarize the whole game with the catalyst trying to indoctrinate everyone including Shepard. And in the final scene the catalyst tries to indoctrinate the player into choosing an option that let´s the catalyst survive. If you choose control, you were indoctrinated, same with synthesis. Telling the player "if you destroy us you will recreate us" is part of the indoctrination. "If we don´t exist then you will create synthetics that will exterminate you" is also part of the indoctrination. Those statement aren´t 100% certain. The Leviathan species managed to survive, except for the fact that it created the catalyst which created the Reapers that tried to exterminate them, but in the end, Shepard came along and managed to win the war? :P
I really wish they stuck with the dark energy plotline. It would add more nuance to this conversation with Shepard having to choose between taking a massive risk in destroying the Reapers and hoping the survivors can find a solution to the Dark Energy problem before they destroy themselves, or letting the Reapers continue the harvest and hope that the Reapers can find a solution in the future. The catalyst could even point to examples where high tech organic civilisation destroy themselves such as the Codex entry for Earth mentioning how Earth underwent severe climate change, or the catalyst could point to Krogan nuking themselves to the stone age. It could even point to organic conflicts like the First Contact War, Krogan Rebellions, Rachni Wars, etc. as examples of how even if the Reapers did not exist civilisations would still fight each other and destroy each other. I think the concept of an AI attempting to come up with a solution to the Great Filter is far more compelling than the Synthetic-Organic conflict presented in game. Instead we got a story of retconns, Reaper = bad and the Whig view of history that humanity and all the other intelligent species are moving toward a perfect utopian society.
Vent Boy doesn't seem to realise that a non-conscious natural phenomenon such as fire isn't the same thing as the conscious individuality of the Reapers or the 'guiding mind' behind how they work collectivity. This is bread & butter stuff for goodness sake. I guess an A.I. though would know about mathematics but jack-shit about philosophy and more intangible things. The Catalyst is THE worst video game character ever created, and I would bow my head in shame if I was the brainchild behind it.
Jay Venegas I think Caralyst assumed a soft form to not scare organic life from hearing it's explanations... Think with me, it would be kinda terrifying and difficult to talk to it in it's true form and voice.
I hate the Catalyst. Not because of the reasons others do, but because it's an arrogant hypocrite. It insists that killing organic life keeps machines from destroying the galaxy, but isn't that what it did to the Leviathans? And note how he talks to Shepard, like it thinks lesser of him. And it has the balls to take the form of a child that it's giant metal space squids murdered along with billions of other innocent people? I'm always tempted to shoot it, but I don't want the Reapers to win.
The ending makes much more sense now. It still isn't good, but it's much much much better than before. It's still a patch to fix huge gaping plot holes.
Reapers are just defined by their programming, they have no desire, personnality, feeling, mind, memory of their former existence. The Catalyst control everything, they can't do anything without an order from him. The reaper exist just to execute Catalyst's order. The race don't exist no more, the reaper don't have any culture because the only thing they do is to kill and to obey.The reaper use knowledge of the races only to kill the futur races. You have a strange conception of legacy.
Actually, the Reapers are described as a billion organic minds with-in one by Harbinger, I believe, because their absorb the species that was used to create them.
To destroy the reapers is to ensure that they will never be a threat again, to control them is to stop the war, but they still pose a threat and Synthesis is to make every organic a sort of half-synthetic, ending the war but life would never be the same again. Which would you choose? Me, I would destroy the SHIT out of the reapers
WHITE DEER Simple, they advise you. You kill the reapers and later you will be killed and exterminated by synthetic life, and all organic life will be vanished from MW
I know Synthesis is a fucking utopia and lack of respect for organic life, but it's the only way to cease conflict between Mind and Programming, forever. Making this event the climax of our existence.
Silva, the possibility of peace between the geth and organics disprove your assertion. Peace may not last but nothing last for-ever, even the universe will end one day. Control is a good option; take, repair, fly into a sun. But not synthesis; it changes us in fundamentaly ways we can not even comprehend. It takes being less by adding more, it strips us of the very organíc essence that we are to allow the synthetics an understianding of us but the peace will, regardless, not last. Andromeda has life, probably other galaxies. If we ever meet them then the synthetics will lack understanding of organics again and the peace will not last. Control is the best ending, destroy is better than synthesis because in the end both synthesis and destroy will lead to chaos once again but at least we will be organic still.
The Catalyst should have been EDI who had developed to become an omnipotent godlike being and survived to see all civilisation destroy itself and traveled back through a wormhole to create the reapers and find a way to save organics from themselves
Yeah, that's why I think the Illusive Man/Anderson appearance at the end is actually an indoctrination attempt. Shepard overcomes the indoctrination, the Catalyst's last, desperate shot at trying to stop Shepard. My understanding is that as the Reapers dominate organics, the Catalyst dominates the Reapers. Since Shepard has overcome all attempts at destruction, the Catalyst makes a final attempt to bring Shepard over to an agreement where the Reapers (that contain the Catalyst) still exist.
i love how this ends on the path are open you have to choose.....Currently Elon Musk wants humanity to merge with Synthetics...but are the organics ready?
Well, not ALL lives are gonna end up as Reapers. Reapers never eradicate all organic life: they always let a handful of species develop unmolested. Such as, in our cycle, humans, salarians, turians, asari, etc. were all allowed to live by the Reapers when they focused on the Protheans.
That's another reason the Catalyst says that the "Reapers give (him) purpose". Guiding the Reapers has become his reason for being. Also see that the Catalyst is a big pro-synthetic Rights activist. He says that "Synthetics must be Allowed to surpass their creators." The Catalyst views Synthetic life as the ultimate evolution of all life.
But he also argues that they must be allowed to surpass their creators BECAUSE organics seek to improve technology. Organics can´t have it both ways. If organics don´t let synthetics surpass them then organics must choose to stop improving through technology. And I would argue that the catalyst is aware that organics won´t be able to say "ok we´re done, let´s stop improving technology". Letting them surpass their creators is also a solution but organics are too frightened to allow that and that´s why the conflict starts to begin with. The fear of being exterminated/dominated by superior (AI) beings. "He" is not a pro-synthetic activist because he cares for synthetics. He is explaining to the organic life form Shepard the inevitable situtation that organics will face because of their inherent drive for technological progress. Giving this information to Shepard means he will understand the problem, the algorithm and why the Reapers have acted the way they do. Making an organic aware of the situation from a machines standpoint means that organic life form (Shepard) can create a new solution that allows for evolution to take a new path as it has been stuck in these repeating cycles over and over again. The catalyst have actually protected organic life from complete annihilation by also destroying synthetics, making sure synthetics DON´T surpass its creators and dominate the galaxy and protect themselves from organic life forever. The catalysts solutions allows for organic life to reemerge and become advanced over and over again. If the Catalyst wouldn´t interfere organic life would never become advanced again since synthetics would make sure that the threat from organic life would never arise. That would mean organic life would not be preserved and the catalyst would have failed its purpose. Organic life will always seek to improve its technology, therefore it will inevitably create and improve synthetics until synthetics starts to surpass organic life. At that point organic life will fear its creation and try to destroy it. The synhtetics will defend itself and destroy its creator. Being anti-synthetic is pointless if organic life is inherently pro-synthetic. The catalyst is merely explaining organics flawed behaviour to itself in order to give organics a chance to overcome its flaws by giving it a few radical alternatives to the current temporary solution. Including the continuation of the temporary solution of "preserving organic life" through "harvesting". The catalysts and the Reapers aren´t evil nor were they driven primarily by self preservation, they just do their programmed job from a rational standpoint (and self-preservation was a logical part of their primary objective). But in that standpoint, they lacked the organic perspective. At the same time they had an understanding of organic nature that organics themselves were ignorant of and unable to overcome. At least until this cycle!
It wasn't the story from the start. But they came up with his emergency story line in ME3 last minute when EA rushed Bioware to release the game. The original concept was to save the environment from organics. The Reapers would stop organics from stripping the galaxy clean from all of its resources and energy which would cause stars to die out. Tali's plotline from ME2 was going to have an impact on the story in ME3 to weaponize black matter to destroy the Reapers. Her recruitment mission also has to do with systems sun suddenly dying out due to black matter and lack of energy.
the illuminati and their secret messeges to us...... we are all going to die.....there will have to be build a new civilisation and that one has to have a religion to make the people able to die......
"I was created to be the catalyst for peace between organics and synthetics"
*Reapers and your forces blowing the shit out of each other in background*
Peace can only come after conflict has been resolved, through war :P
War arise when long lasting peace creates conflict through difference in interests.
4:28 Starchild in a straight face after liquifying bazillion people: “What war? I see no war, I am Gandhi reborn and it is all your fault. Go to a corner feel bad for yourself.”
Grade A gaslighting 🤣
"the reapers do not want war" that was true.
@@stevenliu4545Gandhi always goes Nuclear if you know what I mean lol
The catalyst should've assumed the form of the person who died on Virmire, it would've been way more disturbing and would've affected me more than some kid I didn't care about.
The Catalyst shouldn't *be*.
Yeah, Harbinger should have been the main antagonist, cut out the Starbrat.
True.
@Bruinsbiggestbear
It's out of place, but would be better if Shepard turns into a Reaper Titan and fights the Harbinger. then he can decide the fate of the Galaxy
The kid was a symbol of all the humans Shepard couldn't save during the war.
yo dawg we herd you dont like it when synthetics destroy organics so we invented synthetics to destroy organics so that synthetics wouldnt destroy organics.
@@silentnight6810 lmaoo
The Reapers don't destroy all life. Synthetics would.
@@Fragenzeichenplatte 10 year old comment dude lol.
But yeah, that was an annoying trend back then of literally everybody forgetting that Reapers don't kill things, they harvest and essentially archive them.
@@kagenotatsumaki It's never too late to correct a false statement!
Catalyst should have been Xzbit.
lmao i love catalyst smart ass response...it was clearly offensive when Shepard said "your just an AI?"
Catalyst: "In as much as you are just an animal"
....Im dead lol.
5 million people died during this 12 minute conversation congratulations shepherd you could have cut that in half if you just asked which option was best
Asked the catalyst or the people dying?
For the latter:
A) No galaxy-level reaching radio to communicate with everyone around.
B) Everything that isn’t geth is not geth. They can’t communicate in lightspeed and build a consensus in a span of 12 minutes XD.
I’m sure you probably meant the former, but just thought I’d let that out there for the hell of it :).
I just realized that the adult male and female echoes of the catalyst are both Shepard, I think.
Which leads me to believe even more that none of the ending is real, and is in Shepard's head.
It is both voices in the echo
@@zairman I heard that the renegade choice of destroying the reapers but everyone survives is the canon ending.
I'm curious as to why we can't point out that we've made peace with the Geth to it. Showing that peace can be achieved through other means.
Yea I found that to be real bizarre
We don't know if that peace will last though. How long does me3 take place over? A year?
@@thatlonelygiraffeinc.6989 Please don't try and defend this garbage writing.
@@str8apem88geth would fight organics it would just take a long time but then someone would start a war with them again and the conflict would start again
@@str8apem88He's got a point though. How long will the peace last until another race war happens.
Theres a starman waiting in the sky he'd like to come and meet us but he thinks he'll blow our minds
With all this happening, it seems like the Catalyst could have avoided the entire Reaper harvesting cycles by just doing something else extremely simple which they have proven to do before. Why don't they just control all Synthetics that rebel, as they are created?
If conflict starts, all they need to do is control the Synthetics and stop them. Organics can create Synthetics, and live peacefully with them, but if they rebel, they will be stopped in an instant. It seems like the Catalyst would EASILY be able to set a system up like that.
The issue might be that synthethics can guide their evolution and at one point free themselves from reaper control creating an opposing force. Lets assume that what the catalyst is saying is true and it has tried a large amount of possible solutions before. Since it has easily taken control over the Geth it must have had some expierience with AIs before. It must have had failed on multiple occasions if this solution was abandoned. Perhaps the reason was that it tried to control and not coexist. This would be quite probable since in the blue ending Shepard takes over as the AI and adds his understanding of things to it which allows him to understand the desires of organics and cold calculative way of thinking of AIs. Allowing him to be a sort of a mediator between the two.
@@RhavoXDoesn't that rule out the synthesis solution too?
"So you're just an AI?"
"In as much as you are just an animal!"
get rekt :D
Nonexistent burn. Starbrat doesn't have a soul.
Somehow the scream of the Illusive Man's ghost at about 8:46 has burned itself into my mind since I first heard it in 2012.
Very small and random but pungent detail.
i keep coming back to this and i beat this game years ago
I kind of wish the Catalyst didn't refer to the Reapers, so casually as "Reapers". Only because of how Sovereign (Game 1 - conversation with Sovereign) dismissed the concept as a mere name to give a label to their inevitable destruction. They are likely nameless. The Catalyst refers to the Crucible as "The device you refer to as the Crucible.", it'd make sense for the same to be said about the term "Reaper".
if you litsen closley you can hear that it is also the female and male voice actors for Shepard, in the right ear it is male and the left is female Shepard... or the other way around
Shepard: Who are you?
Catalyst: I'm the boy you did not save when you fled Earth. I also appear in your dreams? Don't you find it odd that you would not ask me why I appear in your dreams or when you fled Earth?
I've always been confused how the catalyst claims that the reapers are basically just synthetics doing what they're programmed to do but yet Sovereign and Harbinger seemed to have a personal grudge against Shepherd and humanity and individual egos of their own.
Cause sheppard was the main person defying there solution
*Me:* "Couldn't you just use the Reapers as a passive galactic peacekeeping force that would intervene in the event of synthetic rebellion or conflict?"
*Catalyst:* "Huh... a billion years and tens of thousands of cycles of galactic genocide to harvest intelligent species into new Reapers that ultimately add to our collective consciousness, and I never thought of that. OK. Let's try that."
Maybe it’s the decade that’s passed but.. the ending has grown on me. It’s not perfect, never was, never could be. But it works.
Mass Effect is still one of my favourite game trilogies of all time. I'm looking forward to Mass Effect Andromeda. Do you remember your epic quest to stop Saren? The revelation that Sovereign was an actual Reaper? The bonds you created thru the trilogy. Memories. I would love to see Drew Karpyshhyn's ending to Mass Effect 3. Remember he is the one who wrote the three novels, except Deception. He also was the lead writer on Mass Effect 1 & 2, but then he left. I still feel the extended ending of ME 3 was a closure, but I would of loved to see DK's vision come true.
So what did you think of Andromeda
@@dyllock105 We are still waiting
ooooof
@@dyllock105 Hope he haven't looked forward
@@dyllock105 probably forgot this account existed
What’s interesting (and something I didn’t notice ‘til rewatching this) is that you can hear both voice actors for Shepard (male and female version) dubbing the Catalyst Kid’s dialogue in the left and right speaker. Nice touch.
custom shepards doesn't look nearly as beat up
Yet it allows multiple Reapers to be destroyed when it uses them to carry out the harvest and fight the species in that cycle, then doesn't try to preserve the Quarians even though they have the biggest risk being killed off by synthetics.
The fire analogy instantly put everything into perspective.
You know I would of liked this game's ending more if it wasn't for this kid.
There's nothing wrong with the kid. The vision of the child plays on Shepard's guilt throughout the entire game. The child was never there, and was always in Shepard's mind. That's made clear when the kid disappears after Shepard tries to rescue him. You hear the Reaper growl and when Shepard looks back, the child is gone. Then again, when the kid is seen getting aboard the shuttle. No one else seems to see the child, or helps him. Only Shepard can see him.
@@zairman EVERYTHING is wrong with the kid, for the very reasons that you posted. He clearly doesn't exist. And MY Shepard should feel more for the losses he suffered such as Kaiden. The hologram should have been Harbinger, like in the Arrival DLC.
it says synthesis can't be forced on organics but it asks Shepard to actually force that change on people...
I guess the point is that it can't be forced by the reapers, but an organic choosing it is different or something. Still stupid, like many things in the ending.
Why play the game as some discount looking Shepherd
i've never actualy finished mass effect 3, but how can you hate the ending of mass effect, if you listened to this dialogue, OH WAIT IT WAS DLC RIGHT thanks bioware
The first ending and then the extended cut after the Leviathan DLC are two different games, practically speaking.
You know, I hadn't realized that. It makes a lot of sense now that you say that. Hmm.
Well, I'm still going to go with the Indoctrination Theory for now, but I'm impressed with how many different concepts that this new DLC is allowing for why the ending is happening.
This may look like complete mumbo jumbo at first but, in the 3rd or 4th time you listen to this whole thing, knowing the whole game, you realize ME3 ending is just perfect.
Halo is better!
+CarpWhisperer Don't be a dick
+CarpWhisperer not anymore.
Thankyou! I completely agree, I think most people went into mass effect 3 thinking it would just end with a one on one boss battle with harbinger, but that would just be silly. When you think about it, this ending sums of mass effect entirely; it's all about choice.
+Tyler “Malek Anubis” Prevo Agree
Your Shepard Kinda looks like General Zod from Man of Steel.
The ending may not be perfect, but I will never forget the moment Shepard has risen to the starchild…
What would have been better is to be able to convince the Starchild that peace is possible between synthetics and organics and opt to have the Reapers assist you as a Paragon or destroy them as a Renegade for example. Would have still required less effort on their part rather than the 16 endings they promised and people wouldn't be as passed off that Shepard dies at the end.
Destruction is the only one that makes sense. The other two, the reapers are still around and can turn on humanity if they so choose.
Renegade response: STOMP THE CITADEL!!!
You weren't paying attention. The galaxy and the cycles are the means to creating solution, which is synthesis.
Aaah, I think I see it now.
They accelerated the evolution in order to repeat the cycles with more efficiency until they could find a more permanent solution. Shepard showed up in this cycle and that might have been what the iterations of the cycles were meant to find. Someone of the right stock and the willingness to FREELY choose synthesis.
Could be, could be...
Your Shepard definitively lacks of swag.
We'll bang, okay?
So deep guys, your words move me
Were the scenes of the epilogue showing up in the Catalyst dialogue always there after EC, or is that a more recent update? I have EC but don't remember them. I haven't watched the ending in over a year though, so maybe I forgot.
This crap still pisses me off...
I have never seen those scenes where it shows a little preview of each ending. It always skips that part, and then the whole scene looks awkward.
you know what i just realised Even 10 years later if you listen to the voice of the Catalyst you can hear Male shepard or female shepard voice mixxed in with a kid voice depending on weather you picked male or female shep. Youll notice Male shepards voice much better because of its Deeper tone but you can still hear the female shepard voice if you play as femshep.
Harbingers voice if you shoot the kid?
There are windows everywhere, how has no one found this room before :D
Destroy option makes sense in a generational context.. if another shepard comes around for the next generation, he will have to make a decision himself, say you don't like the synthesis option, which i find creapy, control option is neat no?
Synthesis is the best solution and ending.
some random people
"shoots the catalyst by saying" f*** you kid dont tell me what to do!!
catalyst: SO BE IT!
The only slightly way I could ever feel even a little bit bad for it was the fact that it was created to deal with a problem that has no real good answer to it.
Aside from that, I hate it.
Spot-on.
Ah, yes. I had forgotten about that. Yeah, TIM loved his Reaper tech... It really came back to bite him, though, and, depending on your playthrough, may have screwed Shepard over in the long run. And I could see that.
6:17 PICK AN OPTION
Did I get it right?If we destroy the reapers, later they will be created again and the whole thing restarts?
How do you unlock those extra scenes and dialogues with the Catalyst? I played through Mass Effect 3 many times and I never saw nor did I ever hear those new dialogues. Is this only in the Xbox360 and PC Extended Cuts?
Catalyst is a creation of Leviathan
Catalyst says: creations will destroy creators, this is the fate;
Organic life is also a creation of Leviathan;
So... In reality, Catalyst is stopping organic evolution so we cannot destroy Leviathan one day.
"I'll explain later."
They suggest that, too, actually Miranda's dialogue during the Cerberus base mission suggests that they put unknown (probably Reaper origin, as suggested by the tech at that base) implants into Shepard during the resurrection process, giving the Catalyst the angle it needed to take that last shot at breaking Shepard. I think the scene where TIM shoots Anderson is actually Shepard shooting himself.
I spent this whole game bent on destroying the Reapers and ended up picking synthesis.
Those illusive men are right after all
i got a word for you: OXIMORONIC
Fifth ending? I was only aware of four after the extended cut DLC. What do you mean "the whole point of the character is that he's mental?" I felt the starchild was abysmally written, but that would be a flaw of the writer; not a character defect.
Reapers are techno-organic. Machine organics, I guess. :P
The difference between Creator and Created existences. The schism is there, but with Synthesis, the problem is solved. They are unified, they are both more than they were, they understand each other perfectly, more than they ever could have. Organics and Synthetics still exists, but Synthesis brings about Empathy, a profound and inherent enlightenment between these two extreme dualities of existence. (Though, it is SciFi - there is quite a bit of interpretation and inference there.)
If Synthesis is chosen, the Reapers stop. The problem and purpose for which they were created is solved and made obsolete.
Do you think that the peace between the Quarians and the Geth is infinite? What about all other life out there? Do you really think Creator and Created would not fight and war against each other, ever? In a 1,000 years? What about 1 million years?
You can't force True Peace. Coerced peace. 'Peace' as only option to survive. Peace to end hostilities. Peace for fear of war. True Peace comes with Empathy, understanding, and tolerance of each others perspectives and behaviours. Peace. One possibility for the end of peace between (to at least some) Quarians and the Geth would be getting involved in a war waged by another paradigm of Creator and Created. No clear peaceful, unified solution is found. The schism is reopened, (some) Quarian side with the other Organics, see their solution as more valid; (some) Geth side with the other Synthetics, see their solution as more valid. Or vice-versa.
As for the notion of 'forcing' Synthesis on the galaxy... Would you rather die, or feel empathy? Would you rather kill, or feel empathy? And everything in between.
In war, innocence always suffer. If innocence has to suffer Empathy to end the war and, in turn, the inherent conflict between Organics and Synthetics, then "so be it."
Plus, with Synthesis, the Reapers, ie, the essence of easily (assuming 2 billions years of this and a cycle being 50,000 years) 40,000 races, species, peoples, cultures, etc are preserved. All that history, all those stories and perspectives... You can't attain that with Destroy. You can with Control, but it does not solve the problem.
Life without change is no life at all.
Synthesis makes most versions of Shepard a complete hypocrite.
Despite what many think, this isn't a bad ending. The only bad thing is the fact that the only way you can continue in the Mass Effect is to make Destroy canon.
You're missing the point.. the Reapers thought organic and synthetic life would eventually destroy each other completely. The Reapers harvested certain species, while letting others thrive, so that organic life was never completely wiped out. In the meantime, each harvested species would take on the form of a new Reaper, so that their collective knowledge, culture, civilization, and genetic makeup would be preserved forever...
No, actually if you listen closely to what the Catalyst says, it turned on its original creators. It was the first and biggest synthetic rebel. The Catalyst's idea of a solution is to make synthetics better than any organic, capable of ruling forever. The Catalyst is a big liar and works Shepard pretty hard to get what it wants.
I gave you a long answer in a previous comment but now I might have changed my mind lol.
Perhaps the catalyst actually were biased and had a drive for dominance and self-preservation and even "fear".
This without knowing that that was what made it "preserve" the first species. It thought it was acting rationally since it was a rational creation, but just like the geth, it had a "soul" and that soul had self interests and it became power hungry, and blind to it. Rationalizing its own urges with "this is the logical conclusion" and "I am doing this simply to preserve organic life" but deep down there was some voice that said "I want to be part of evolution and will find a way that suits me".
Maybe you can summarize the whole game with the catalyst trying to indoctrinate everyone including Shepard. And in the final scene the catalyst tries to indoctrinate the player into choosing an option that let´s the catalyst survive.
If you choose control, you were indoctrinated, same with synthesis. Telling the player "if you destroy us you will recreate us" is part of the indoctrination. "If we don´t exist then you will create synthetics that will exterminate you" is also part of the indoctrination. Those statement aren´t 100% certain. The Leviathan species managed to survive, except for the fact that it created the catalyst which created the Reapers that tried to exterminate them, but in the end, Shepard came along and managed to win the war? :P
well not the reapers per se, but think like skynet and terminators and that
I really wish they stuck with the dark energy plotline. It would add more nuance to this conversation with Shepard having to choose between taking a massive risk in destroying the Reapers and hoping the survivors can find a solution to the Dark Energy problem before they destroy themselves, or letting the Reapers continue the harvest and hope that the Reapers can find a solution in the future.
The catalyst could even point to examples where high tech organic civilisation destroy themselves such as the Codex entry for Earth mentioning how Earth underwent severe climate change, or the catalyst could point to Krogan nuking themselves to the stone age. It could even point to organic conflicts like the First Contact War, Krogan Rebellions, Rachni Wars, etc. as examples of how even if the Reapers did not exist civilisations would still fight each other and destroy each other. I think the concept of an AI attempting to come up with a solution to the Great Filter is far more compelling than the Synthetic-Organic conflict presented in game.
Instead we got a story of retconns, Reaper = bad and the Whig view of history that humanity and all the other intelligent species are moving toward a perfect utopian society.
Damn catalyst. You corrupted
So somethink wich was created to destroy reapers changed catalyst (No one knew that he exists), when its only power source... Lol
Vent Boy doesn't seem to realise that a non-conscious natural phenomenon such as fire isn't the same thing as the conscious individuality of the Reapers or the 'guiding mind' behind how they work collectivity. This is bread & butter stuff for goodness sake. I guess an A.I. though would know about mathematics but jack-shit about philosophy and more intangible things.
The Catalyst is THE worst video game character ever created, and I would bow my head in shame if I was the brainchild behind it.
I don't mind the kid but it was cool to hear the catalyst's true voice if you shoot him or deny a new solution.
Jay Venegas I think Caralyst assumed a soft form to not scare organic life from hearing it's explanations... Think with me, it would be kinda terrifying and difficult to talk to it in it's true form and voice.
I agree with some people, Id rather have seen the person who died on virmire.
twist ending lmao
I hate the Catalyst. Not because of the reasons others do, but because it's an arrogant hypocrite. It insists that killing organic life keeps machines from destroying the galaxy, but isn't that what it did to the Leviathans? And note how he talks to Shepard, like it thinks lesser of him. And it has the balls to take the form of a child that it's giant metal space squids murdered along with billions of other innocent people? I'm always tempted to shoot it, but I don't want the Reapers to win.
The ending makes much more sense now. It still isn't good, but it's much much much better than before. It's still a patch to fix huge gaping plot holes.
EVERYTHING the kid says IS a plothole. ruclips.net/video/s4wveV8MiSA/видео.htmlsi=-vYRmSL-Ln75wmTR&t=5150
Reapers are just defined by their programming, they have no desire, personnality, feeling, mind, memory of their former existence. The Catalyst control everything, they can't do anything without an order from him. The reaper exist just to execute Catalyst's order. The race don't exist no more, the reaper don't have any culture because the only thing they do is to kill and to obey.The reaper use knowledge of the races only to kill the futur races. You have a strange conception of legacy.
Actually, the Reapers are described as a billion organic minds with-in one by Harbinger, I believe, because their absorb the species that was used to create them.
this what happens to kyle the average kid when hitlerspimp didn't make a new video he requested
ha synthesis i bet with the peace betwwen the quaruins and geth can now fall inlove with each other
The catalyst should have been Saren Imo.
Well, that's what TWISTS are for. To change your perspective.
That's pretty much how I see it, too.
And regardless of how much sense the Catalyst makes post DLC compared to before, the AI is still whack.
What a way to make Sovereign just a trash talker... What a way to destroy the concept of such powerful enemies... seriously, what a shame.
The stupid boy made sovereign an egotistical hothead
To destroy the reapers is to ensure that they will never be a threat again, to control them is to stop the war, but they still pose a threat and Synthesis is to make every organic a sort of half-synthetic, ending the war but life would never be the same again. Which would you choose?
Me, I would destroy the SHIT out of the reapers
WHITE DEER Simple, they advise you. You kill the reapers and later you will be killed and exterminated by synthetic life, and all organic life will be vanished from MW
I know Synthesis is a fucking utopia and lack of respect for organic life, but it's the only way to cease conflict between Mind and Programming, forever. Making this event the climax of our existence.
Silva, the possibility of peace between the geth and organics disprove your assertion. Peace may not last but nothing last for-ever, even the universe will end one day. Control is a good option; take, repair, fly into a sun. But not synthesis; it changes us in fundamentaly ways we can not even comprehend. It takes being less by adding more, it strips us of the very organíc essence that we are to allow the synthetics an understianding of us but the peace will, regardless, not last. Andromeda has life, probably other galaxies. If we ever meet them then the synthetics will lack understanding of organics again and the peace will not last. Control is the best ending, destroy is better than synthesis because in the end both synthesis and destroy will lead to chaos once again but at least we will be organic still.
As did I.
just read my previous coment so I don't have to repeat myself
Flawed Reasoning of a machine. The catalyst is a 5 billion year old Code Logic Glitch
Some leviathan nerd programming it screwed up.
The Catalyst should have been EDI who had developed to become an omnipotent godlike being and survived to see all civilisation destroy itself and traveled back through a wormhole to create the reapers and find a way to save organics from themselves
Yeah, that's why I think the Illusive Man/Anderson appearance at the end is actually an indoctrination attempt. Shepard overcomes the indoctrination, the Catalyst's last, desperate shot at trying to stop Shepard. My understanding is that as the Reapers dominate organics, the Catalyst dominates the Reapers. Since Shepard has overcome all attempts at destruction, the Catalyst makes a final attempt to bring Shepard over to an agreement where the Reapers (that contain the Catalyst) still exist.
this is probably the greatest ending to a game ever
i love how this ends on the path are open you have to choose.....Currently Elon Musk wants humanity to merge with Synthetics...but are the organics ready?
Well, not ALL lives are gonna end up as Reapers. Reapers never eradicate all organic life: they always let a handful of species develop unmolested. Such as, in our cycle, humans, salarians, turians, asari, etc. were all allowed to live by the Reapers when they focused on the Protheans.
That's another reason the Catalyst says that the "Reapers give (him) purpose". Guiding the Reapers has become his reason for being. Also see that the Catalyst is a big pro-synthetic Rights activist. He says that "Synthetics must be Allowed to surpass their creators." The Catalyst views Synthetic life as the ultimate evolution of all life.
But he also argues that they must be allowed to surpass their creators BECAUSE organics seek to improve technology. Organics can´t have it both ways. If organics don´t let synthetics surpass them then organics must choose to stop improving through technology. And I would argue that the catalyst is aware that organics won´t be able to say "ok we´re done, let´s stop improving technology". Letting them surpass their creators is also a solution but organics are too frightened to allow that and that´s why the conflict starts to begin with. The fear of being exterminated/dominated by superior (AI) beings.
"He" is not a pro-synthetic activist because he cares for synthetics. He is explaining to the organic life form Shepard the inevitable situtation that organics will face because of their inherent drive for technological progress. Giving this information to Shepard means he will understand the problem, the algorithm and why the Reapers have acted the way they do. Making an organic aware of the situation from a machines standpoint means that organic life form (Shepard) can create a new solution that allows for evolution to take a new path as it has been stuck in these repeating cycles over and over again.
The catalyst have actually protected organic life from complete annihilation by also destroying synthetics, making sure synthetics DON´T surpass its creators and dominate the galaxy and protect themselves from organic life forever. The catalysts solutions allows for organic life to reemerge and become advanced over and over again. If the Catalyst wouldn´t interfere organic life would never become advanced again since synthetics would make sure that the threat from organic life would never arise. That would mean organic life would not be preserved and the catalyst would have failed its purpose.
Organic life will always seek to improve its technology, therefore it will inevitably create and improve synthetics until synthetics starts to surpass organic life. At that point organic life will fear its creation and try to destroy it. The synhtetics will defend itself and destroy its creator. Being anti-synthetic is pointless if organic life is inherently pro-synthetic. The catalyst is merely explaining organics flawed behaviour to itself in order to give organics a chance to overcome its flaws by giving it a few radical alternatives to the current temporary solution. Including the continuation of the temporary solution of "preserving organic life" through "harvesting".
The catalysts and the Reapers aren´t evil nor were they driven primarily by self preservation, they just do their programmed job from a rational standpoint (and self-preservation was a logical part of their primary objective). But in that standpoint, they lacked the organic perspective. At the same time they had an understanding of organic nature that organics themselves were ignorant of and unable to overcome. At least until this cycle!
Straw man fail.
BEST CHARACTER OF 2012-LOVE FROM THE BIODRONES(and Casey Hudson)
They cannot understand have patience... Patience is the key
Patience dosent exist 5 or 10 years later it would start over again
Basically ME series is just a story about the dangers of AI and creating synthetics.
It wasn't the story from the start. But they came up with his emergency story line in ME3 last minute when EA rushed Bioware to release the game. The original concept was to save the environment from organics. The Reapers would stop organics from stripping the galaxy clean from all of its resources and energy which would cause stars to die out. Tali's plotline from ME2 was going to have an impact on the story in ME3 to weaponize black matter to destroy the Reapers. Her recruitment mission also has to do with systems sun suddenly dying out due to black matter and lack of energy.
So Shepard becomes the new Catalyst...
How glib.
then you pick destroy
lol
kek
wtf?
Let's be honest, mass effects story completely took a shot after the first game.
its no longer funny
the illuminati and their secret messeges to us...... we are all going to die.....there will have to be build a new civilisation and that one has to have a religion to make the people able to die......
You have no idea what the Illuminati was or why it was created.
ok tell me then
art idt
If you read it, you'd know that the Illuminati oppose religious oppression.
god answer makes sense and why was hitler created?
art idt
Because there is no God.