This was a great episode. Not only from a collecting standpoint, but just to hear you guys talk about how this meant something to you as a kid. That's what this is all about. This band changed out lives. We wouldn't be who we are today, without them. (I know that sounds silly, but it's true). Each one of you, and each one of us watching, are who we are, BECAUSE of moments like that....staring at a Gene Solo LP Poster on a wall on a dark October night. That is the fun of being a KISS fan. You guys hit it out of the park with this one. Great work. Take care, have a great weekend.
Amazing as always, gents! Big shout out to J5 for being willing to take the time to share his unbelievable collection with us and to all four of you for giving us the most informative AND entertaining KISS-related podcast of them all!
Very cool,...John 5 is very serious about his collecting,..great to see these things that I otherwise never would ....as a kid in the 70’s I had the mega large poster, 1776 one, and a few of the motorcycle ones,......sadly long gone......great job all you guys with all your great knowledge and insight!
What a great episode! This discussion was so interesting and educational (that's a big word, like "gymnasium"). I only had 2 retail posters from this era: the '79 motorcycle poster (purchased in Alma, Michigan) and "The Loudest Band In The World" poster (purchased in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan)!! Shout out (loud) to my Michigan brothers, 5 and Joe. What's awesome is I remember buying both posters so clearly. THAT is why KISS stands above other bands - - the wonderful memories & moments that we all have!!
Great episode!! This is my favorite Kiss related podcast/RUclips channel, hands down. You guys make me laugh so hard I’ve got tears, sometimes. Great Kiss conversations that make viewers feel like they are hanging out with friends. Thanks for all you do, guys, and keep it up! 👍
In the 90’s I bought out the stock of a T-shirt shop in Windsor Canada. They had a stack of the pink creatures posters. 100 of them. He said you have to buy them all. $1.00 cad each (.74 US). I bought them all and used to sell mint unused ones for $9. Ahhh the good old days.
The Bicentennial US Tour 76, the Jumbo "75-76 Alive Era" and the Gene Spitting blood were my first posters proudly presented on my wall. I Got the 1977 live Jumbo poster as well- Epic stuff, yes "seared into my childhood" memories. Still have my 1977 Live Ace smoking guitar poster.
Excellent, entertaining and informative, as usual! Had that Canada Tour poster on my wall for many years. Bought at a zellers in Halifax during KISS’ 70’s heyday. Wrinkled and damaged by tape / pinholes, it was disposed of as trash in the 90’s. Never thought of it as valuable or collectible. Your show has enlightened me and rekindled my interest in kollectibles and vinyl. Sure wish I still had that Canada tour poster…
NY radio stations - W's - WABC, WNBC, WPLJ etc. Great episode!!! When I moved to FL I only kept 3 posters, the 1975 Alive shot I bought in 1975, Paul's motorcycle and Paul's Love Gun one, It was keep more posters or not bring my vinyl - I chose my vinyl.
Kiss posters were always my favorite collectible. I have quite a collection nowhere near this but I have around 100 kiss posters. I stopped collecting about 20 years ago. One of the best finds I ever got. In 1987 I had remembered a little magazine shop next to a movie theater in salt Lake City on state street. From my childhood got a crazy idea and went in there. The same woman still owned the place. Everything was on closeout because they were closing it. I asked her if she still had any kiss posters. She said you're the second person that's been here this week asking that I thought I would be out of luck. But I got all four solo individual album cover posters a group Solo album cover posters. And all four 1977 live posters. for the price of 99 cents each. So yeah nine kiss posters still in the plastic for $9. And they are still all in the plastic. My other favorite thing in the '80s I met some kids when I moved to San Francisco that had tons of old Kiss stuff from their childhood that they had gotten from European pen pals. And I discovered those four page poster pull outs from Europe those things are the coolest they are so random and never-ending we used to say if you could imagine a kiss poster you could probably find it LOL. Anyway that's my story about collecting I love the posters
Speaking of head shops , I used to go to a store in The Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream Long Island NY called "Home Decor" & get my posters along & in the back they had a store within that store called "The Jolly Joint" which was a head shop ... haha , thanks so much for reminding me of this!!!!!
Interesting episode this John Five has a tremendous collection but this is how every Kiss fan had he s room walls sailing and doors tapestred with a kiss posters in Skandinavia we had everything from those big ones and I also had that black and white poster that he called it from 75 / Imhave a poster of Gene Simmons printed 1976 / Shot is from 1975 / costume all in red light/ that was one of a kind / Never seeing anybody have that and all my posters are originals / My mother saved half of theme on her attick/ the other half went away in a flood in my basement / In my bands rehearsal local but the best ones hang onthe wall that Simmons poster/ And those four famous Peter singing Beth in blue/ Ace with smoking guitar /Gene with blood /Paul with guitar between his legs from Love Gun Stage / Every ones ofthe super big ones motorbikes and tonns of the others went inthe water / But I have almost all the swedish poster magazines from the early days originals / And I have theme now in my home studio laying flat up on a big wardrobe and will not bee disturbed / I have the red light picture of Gene onthe wall even John Five dont have that / Ace with smoking guitar / My 2 favourite members / The group walking street of New York swedish poster magazine / And one with red background 1976 costumes / only couple of pictures on each wall / So they are blended in with Like Phil Lynott / Johnny Rotten / so it is like 2 posters on each wall/ Not tapestred only the ones who keeps the memories floating back and gives you inspiration to make music/ Others who I would love to have up onthe wall should be Steve Harris/Dio /Blackmore/Mikhael Schenker/ etc those who brings back the best memories / Should have had more space / All this big posters we had super posters and yes all the solo albums posters we had in big poster and those I still have but they are to big to hang up/
Great episode….wonderful to see all of the posters I had on my wall as a kid…it was like Christmas every couple of months when the head shop in my mall (A Shop Called East) would get new posters in. So exciting….if you didn’t live it, it’s hard to relate I guess. I’m not all the way through this episode yet, but so far I’ve not see 2 posters represented that were retail posters, but I don’t think they were Boutwell releases….may have been imports. One is of Gene from the side singing into the mic from 1975 or early 76(Alive costume). The lighting is all red. It’s a full sized vertical poster. I might still have it in storage but not sure. It was released in the 70s. The second was a horizontal full sized poster …a live shot from early 1974 taken at the Casablanca record release party at the Century Plaza Hotel….you see the stage logo in it, and has Gene Paul and Ace huddled at the front of the stage….reddish pink stage lighting. This came out probably in the mid 80s. If these are featured later in the episode my apologies….if not, well there’s two more for you guys and John 5 to hunt down! 😂
Yeah I guess you would have to say you love kiss posters at age 56 when you sit and watch a 2-hour video about kiss posters LOL good stuff you guys I love it thanks
I have all brand new mylar posters in the pink sleeves all wrapped up together I been saving for years I bought from a huge LA Record Store Closing that found them in the back. And brand new blood comics never open I have so much I be hear just as long lol. But do want to sell.
24th thumbs up from me and I haven't even watched it yet!!!!!! Blue Kool-Aid Drinker. Peace out from the Southern Tip of Vancouver Island (where Nicholas is always welcome), B.C. CANADA
I just noticed the Ace image on some of the composite motorcycle posters is if flipped. Easier to notice with Paul's makeup design - but notice which hand he is holding out.
One last thing what would be really cool is if you showed us some holy Grail unseen kiss poster but at age 56 I have seen all of these but thank you for the trip
The swedish poster magazine I have all of theme / Walking the streets of New York is just pure gold ++++++ But the early ones like up to 1977 with Love Gun costumes was the best ones 👍😎👍 Then it slightly get not so cool but that was the whole band starting sinking/ Just my humble opinion/ Everyone has the right to have a different opinion/
Should be published: an oversized book, each page one of all of the 'By Aucoin Management' posters, normal sized, odd sized (that Destroyer outifs/Love Gun outfits one, and the Black Light/UV 'Destroyer Heads' one) and the giant Super-Sized. All the 'official' posters 1975-1979. Maybe including the Holmes & MacDougal 1970s ones, too? KISS posters were as much of the KISS experiene as the albums. More people heard the albums and saw the posters than attended the concerts in the 1970s.
Great episode.. John if you read this. Where do you get those clear poster sleeves or better still what do they call them as I have a heap of posters I would like to put in those. Cheers in advance 👍
Hello Nicholas. I was wondering if your book includes a section on tour t-shirts? I ask because of you wearing a Dynasty Tour shirt in this episode. When I saw them in Los Angeles in 1979 I purchased a 3/4 sleeved jersey and on the back besides the KISS logo was also printed the state of Texas with names of the cities they were to play. I wondered why Texas and no other U S. states. I was disappointed at the time I was only able to get this version considering I saw them in California. Just curious if you or your book has the answer as to why.
We don’t have a regular schedule. We just make the episodes when we’re in the mood. So sometimes you get two really quick. And other times there is a big gap.
Which of the Love Gun era jumbo posters came out first? The "KISS Army" one (with the KISS logo and stage shot in the middle) or the one with the cubes shot in the middle and live shot at the top?
Maybe in USA but not worldwide......I refer to your thoughts on the popularity of the iconic imagery of KISS. Posters of bands like Stones (& lips), Beatles, Pink Floyd album art, Angus Young, Queen, Sex Pistols and of course hot babes, were far, far more prevalent in Europe. KISS hardly made a splash outside of the diehard fans.
W- east of Mississippi, K- west of Mississippi, but everyone was kinda Wrong....WDAF TV is west of the Mississippi in Kansas City. Its the only one i know of. HEY! Station overprint, representing KBEQ, Super Q 104, Kansas City! A station now long gone. Joe: The Dunning-Krueger example of Process Printing technique knowledge
I noticed that John showed only one 1976 blacklight poster but there are actually two color “variations”. The more common one has an orange/pinkish background but some copies have a more vibrant hot pink background. Not sure if that would be considered a true variant or just more of a printing variation. Is it possible they were printed by different companies at different times?
i only wanted to say i have none of the early posters. Why?, 16 yr old me in 76 had a brilliant idea. i didn't have frames, i hated taping posters up, and push pins start sagging and tearing. My answer? Well, i was painting my room, and BLAM!, out of the blue, i decided to seamlessly adhere them to the damp paint. Never gave a thought to us moving.🤨😱
The only way the arrow could be a one-off, is if it is a Chromalin proof, meaning it was never printed. It probably has the ®as a cover their ass registration mark on a proof. 4 color film would have been roughly stripped, then exposed to a 3M Chromalin. If it is print, there's far more than 1.
@@kissmykollectibles Cool. Then I think I have finally found the origin of some numbered photocards I have. The images are similar to some of the images on the Canadian poster images John5 showed, and there is a "Zellers" stickers on the backside of each one of them, which was/is (?) a Canadian store I believe. THX!
Hahahahahaha thanks for tuning in! Our format has been the same for years and has served us well. Just look at the rest of the comments. It’s always funny when the keyboard warrior thinks they can do it better. ✌️
This was a great episode. Not only from a collecting standpoint, but just to hear you guys talk about how this meant something to you as a kid. That's what this is all about. This band changed out lives. We wouldn't be who we are today, without them. (I know that sounds silly, but it's true). Each one of you, and each one of us watching, are who we are, BECAUSE of moments like that....staring at a Gene Solo LP Poster on a wall on a dark October night. That is the fun of being a KISS fan. You guys hit it out of the park with this one. Great work. Take care, have a great weekend.
Goosebumps watching this show..... childhood memories all over again. Kiss rules..Thank you guys !!!
So cool to see so many posters that used to be in my bedroom in the 70s again. Thanks!
Amazing as always, gents! Big shout out to J5 for being willing to take the time to share his unbelievable collection with us and to all four of you for giving us the most informative AND entertaining KISS-related podcast of them all!
Amazing video….I’m gonna watch this one over and over .
Kiss posters are legendary!
Very cool,...John 5 is very serious about his collecting,..great to see these things that I otherwise never would ....as a kid in the 70’s I had the mega large poster, 1776 one, and a few of the motorcycle ones,......sadly long gone......great job all you guys with all your great knowledge and insight!
Delighted to learn about the worldwide distribution for the book! I’ll be looking for a copy in the Uk!
Vintage poster are always cool to see👍😎👍
Thanks Jason Nicholas Joe and John🏅
What a great episode! This discussion was so interesting and educational (that's a big word, like "gymnasium"). I only had 2 retail posters from this era: the '79 motorcycle poster (purchased in Alma, Michigan) and "The Loudest Band In The World" poster (purchased in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan)!! Shout out (loud) to my Michigan brothers, 5 and Joe.
What's awesome is I remember buying both posters so clearly. THAT is why KISS stands above other bands - - the wonderful memories & moments that we all have!!
Great episode, the best kiss show by a mile.
Great episode!! This is my favorite Kiss related podcast/RUclips channel, hands down. You guys make me laugh so hard I’ve got tears, sometimes. Great Kiss conversations that make viewers feel like they are hanging out with friends. Thanks for all you do, guys, and keep it up! 👍
In the 90’s I bought out the stock of a T-shirt shop in Windsor Canada. They had a stack of the pink creatures posters. 100 of them. He said you have to buy them all. $1.00 cad each (.74 US). I bought them all and used to sell mint unused ones for $9. Ahhh the good old days.
Loved this whole episode. Brought back a lot of memories.
The Bicentennial US Tour 76, the Jumbo "75-76 Alive Era" and the Gene Spitting blood were my first posters proudly presented on my wall. I Got the 1977 live Jumbo poster as well- Epic stuff, yes "seared into my childhood" memories. Still have my 1977 Live Ace smoking guitar poster.
Excellent, entertaining and informative, as usual! Had that Canada Tour poster on my wall for many years. Bought at a zellers in Halifax during KISS’ 70’s heyday. Wrinkled and damaged by tape / pinholes, it was disposed of as trash in the 90’s. Never thought of it as valuable or collectible. Your show has enlightened me and rekindled my interest in kollectibles and vinyl. Sure wish I still had that Canada tour poster…
NY radio stations - W's - WABC, WNBC, WPLJ etc. Great episode!!! When I moved to FL I only kept 3 posters, the 1975 Alive shot I bought in 1975, Paul's motorcycle and Paul's Love Gun one, It was keep more posters or not bring my vinyl - I chose my vinyl.
Absolutely amazing episode again. Finally managed to get the book order in here in Finland ! Thanx guys !
Absolutely amazing episode.
John 5 is the greatest. Great show again guys. Thank you. 6:35-6:45 could have been voiced by Paul Stanley screaming at Gene. 😀
Kiss posters were always my favorite collectible. I have quite a collection nowhere near this but I have around 100 kiss posters. I stopped collecting about 20 years ago. One of the best finds I ever got. In 1987 I had remembered a little magazine shop next to a movie theater in salt Lake City on state street. From my childhood got a crazy idea and went in there. The same woman still owned the place. Everything was on closeout because they were closing it. I asked her if she still had any kiss posters. She said you're the second person that's been here this week asking that I thought I would be out of luck. But I got all four solo individual album cover posters a group Solo album cover posters. And all four 1977 live posters. for the price of 99 cents each. So yeah nine kiss posters still in the plastic for $9. And they are still all in the plastic. My other favorite thing in the '80s I met some kids when I moved to San Francisco that had tons of old Kiss stuff from their childhood that they had gotten from European pen pals. And I discovered those four page poster pull outs from Europe those things are the coolest they are so random and never-ending we used to say if you could imagine a kiss poster you could probably find it LOL. Anyway that's my story about collecting I love the posters
Speaking of head shops , I used to go to a store in The Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream Long Island NY called "Home Decor" & get my posters along & in the back they had a store within that store called "The Jolly Joint" which was a head shop ... haha , thanks so much for reminding me of this!!!!!
Interesting episode this John Five has a tremendous collection but this is how every Kiss fan had he s room walls sailing and doors tapestred with a kiss posters in Skandinavia we had everything from those big ones and I also had that black and white poster that he called it from 75 /
Imhave a poster of Gene Simmons printed 1976 /
Shot is from 1975 / costume all in red light/ that was one of a kind / Never seeing anybody have that and all my posters are originals /
My mother saved half of theme on her attick/ the other half went away in a flood in my basement /
In my bands rehearsal local but the best ones hang onthe wall that Simmons poster/
And those four famous Peter singing Beth in blue/ Ace with smoking guitar /Gene with blood /Paul with guitar between his legs from Love Gun Stage /
Every ones ofthe super big ones motorbikes and tonns of the others went inthe water /
But I have almost all the swedish poster magazines from the early days originals /
And I have theme now in my home studio laying flat up on a big wardrobe and will not bee disturbed /
I have the red light picture of Gene onthe wall even John Five dont have that / Ace with smoking guitar / My 2 favourite members / The group walking street of New York swedish poster magazine /
And one with red background 1976 costumes / only couple of pictures on each wall / So they are blended in with Like Phil Lynott / Johnny Rotten / so it is like 2 posters on each wall/
Not tapestred only the ones who keeps the memories floating back and gives you inspiration to make music/
Others who I would love to have up onthe wall should be Steve Harris/Dio /Blackmore/Mikhael Schenker/ etc those who brings back the best memories /
Should have had more space / All this big posters we had super posters and yes all the solo albums posters we had in big poster and those I still have but they are to big to hang up/
The winner of the Kiss Off, wore that yellow shirt on the Mike Douglas Show when Kiss performed
Great episode….wonderful to see all of the posters I had on my wall as a kid…it was like Christmas every couple of months when the head shop in my mall (A Shop Called East) would get new posters in. So exciting….if you didn’t live it, it’s hard to relate I guess.
I’m not all the way through this episode yet, but so far I’ve not see 2 posters represented that were retail posters, but I don’t think they were Boutwell releases….may have been imports. One is of Gene from the side singing into the mic from 1975 or early 76(Alive costume). The lighting is all red. It’s a full sized vertical poster. I might still have it in storage but not sure. It was released in the 70s.
The second was a horizontal full sized poster …a live shot from
early 1974 taken at the Casablanca record release party at the Century Plaza Hotel….you see the stage logo in it, and has Gene Paul and Ace huddled at the front of the stage….reddish pink stage lighting. This came out probably in the mid 80s.
If these are featured later in the episode my apologies….if not, well there’s two more for you guys and John 5 to hunt down! 😂
Yeah I guess you would have to say you love kiss posters at age 56 when you sit and watch a 2-hour video about kiss posters LOL good stuff you guys I love it thanks
1:14:40 is the very first Kiss poster I had seen, as a youngster; always loved that photo session
What a Awesome episode, I Absolutely Loved It!!!!!!!!
I have all brand new mylar posters in the pink sleeves all wrapped up together I been saving for years I bought from a huge LA Record Store Closing that found them in the back. And brand new blood comics never open I have so much I be hear just as long lol. But do want to sell.
You guys are the best. Great episode!!!
excited to watch this!! Thanks guys!!
I remember getting posters in 90s into the early 2000s of Metallica, KISS, KoRn, etc subway posters even a few with John 5 from 99-2002.
24th thumbs up from me and I haven't even watched it yet!!!!!! Blue Kool-Aid Drinker. Peace out from the Southern Tip of Vancouver Island (where Nicholas is always welcome), B.C. CANADA
@1:41:09 i still have this one, with the 4 boxes, standard poster size.
Thanks guys, great episode
I just noticed the Ace image on some of the composite motorcycle posters is if flipped. Easier to notice with Paul's makeup design - but notice which hand he is holding out.
Yeah Posters in the late 80s and 90s were big even into the 2000s with the subway posters.
John 5 with Jacket and Magnifyiny glass just great.
My opinion on that 5 by 7 mylar poster you have Jason is that it's a salesmans sample.
Man these are such good watches i love the long video packed with information European coming next?
One last thing what would be really cool is if you showed us some holy Grail unseen kiss poster but at age 56 I have seen all of these but thank you for the trip
I LOVE THIS!!! So badass!!
I had 95 % of these posters including the blacklight pinball. Wish I still had all of them
The swedish poster magazine I have all of theme /
Walking the streets of New York is just pure gold ++++++
But the early ones like up to 1977 with Love Gun costumes was the best ones 👍😎👍
Then it slightly get not so cool but that was the whole band starting sinking/
Just my humble opinion/
Everyone has the right to have a different opinion/
Should be published: an oversized book, each page one of all of the 'By Aucoin Management' posters, normal sized, odd sized (that Destroyer outifs/Love Gun outfits one, and the Black Light/UV 'Destroyer Heads' one) and the giant Super-Sized. All the 'official' posters 1975-1979. Maybe including the Holmes & MacDougal 1970s ones, too? KISS posters were as much of the KISS experiene as the albums. More people heard the albums and saw the posters than attended the concerts in the 1970s.
Great episode.. John if you read this. Where do you get those clear poster sleeves or better still what do they call them as I have a heap of posters I would like to put in those. Cheers in advance 👍
If you notice, the Ace motorcycle image is often flipped…
Serious question..how would I know if i have the original homemade art fan flag shown on the back of Alive 1 in the photo being held on the floor?
Hello Nicholas. I was wondering if your book includes a section on tour t-shirts? I ask because of you wearing a Dynasty Tour shirt in this episode. When I saw them in Los Angeles in 1979 I purchased a 3/4 sleeved jersey and on the back besides the KISS logo was also printed the state of Texas with names of the cities they were to play. I wondered why Texas and no other U S. states. I was disappointed at the time I was only able to get this version considering I saw them in California. Just curious if you or your book has the answer as to why.
I love your show!! I listen the podcast but I don’t know when new episodes drop on RUclips?
We don’t have a regular schedule. We just make the episodes when we’re in the mood. So sometimes you get two really quick. And other times there is a big gap.
Which of the Love Gun era jumbo posters came out first? The "KISS Army" one (with the KISS logo and stage shot in the middle) or the one with the cubes shot in the middle and live shot at the top?
The one with the live shot at the top came out first.
Maybe in USA but not worldwide......I refer to your thoughts on the popularity of the iconic imagery of KISS. Posters of bands like Stones (& lips), Beatles, Pink Floyd album art, Angus Young, Queen, Sex Pistols and of course hot babes, were far, far more prevalent in Europe. KISS hardly made a splash outside of the diehard fans.
W- east of Mississippi, K- west of Mississippi, but everyone was kinda Wrong....WDAF TV is west of the Mississippi in Kansas City. Its the only one i know of. HEY! Station overprint, representing KBEQ, Super Q 104, Kansas City! A station now long gone.
Joe: The Dunning-Krueger example of Process Printing technique knowledge
I noticed that John showed only one 1976 blacklight poster but there are actually two color “variations”. The more common one has an orange/pinkish background but some copies have a more vibrant hot pink background. Not sure if that would be considered a true variant or just more of a printing variation. Is it possible they were printed by different companies at different times?
That is a fading issue. Not a variant. Hot pink has seen nearly zero light over the years.
i only wanted to say i have none of the early posters. Why?, 16 yr old me in 76 had a brilliant idea. i didn't have frames, i hated taping posters up, and push pins start sagging and tearing. My answer? Well, i was painting my room, and BLAM!, out of the blue, i decided to seamlessly adhere them to the damp paint. Never gave a thought to us moving.🤨😱
I've always wondered.....where are the original giant KISS letters are that were behind the drums ? Please tell me they weren't trashed.
John 5 is the kiss destroyer:)
i have the kiss poster with the yellow dot logo
Almost is like a postcard version of the poster.
John 5 IS the greatest. I just recently saw a video on the time John 5 kicked Marilyn Manson's butt!!
Good times!!
Yeah that's been making the rounds for some reason lately. He sure was on edge that day. Seemed quite harmless then full blown chaos. Lol.
The only way the arrow could be a one-off, is if it is a Chromalin proof, meaning it was never printed. It probably has the ®as a cover their ass registration mark on a proof. 4 color film would have been roughly stripped, then exposed to a 3M Chromalin. If it is print, there's far more than 1.
You refer to a Canadian (?) company quite a few times. I believe you say Campus? Is that correct?
Correct. Campus Craft
@@kissmykollectibles Cool. Then I think I have finally found the origin of some numbered photocards I have. The images are similar to some of the images on the Canadian poster images John5 showed, and there is a "Zellers" stickers on the backside of each one of them, which was/is (?) a Canadian store I believe. THX!
Is that a glow in the dark poster!
42:29 No not really he just said that
Hi! Welcome to normal conversation! 😂
Can I take Joe's invite to John's house? I want to visit my trash can that I sold him.
🤘😝🤘
I couldn’t hang with all the boring bs’. Ten minutes in and I was like, WTF is this boring side talk even doing doing in an already boring topic?
Hahahahahaha thanks for tuning in! Our format has been the same for years and has served us well. Just look at the rest of the comments. It’s always funny when the keyboard warrior thinks they can do it better. ✌️
@@kissmykollectibles i agree with "Joe".
but yet another person with no life watching a video he doesnt like instead of doing their own
Supply and demand. However, what people are paying for this garbage is beyond insanity.