I think we are supposed to have mixed feelings about Maximus because he is most of us. He was brought up in a moral framework of Might Makes Right (with an overlay of Plato’s Republic). He senses he could be better, to be the hero (the noble knight in shining armor) that he wants to be. And he’s trying to figure it out, like many of us. We have an intuitive grasp of right and wrong, but we aren’t always sure about basic courses of action. Nor are we willing to commit to challenges of “being good”. For others, they do not have to think about doing the right thing. It’s their automatic reaction.
The key to understanding Maximus is to realise that he was raised a Child Solider in a (semi-)religious cult, and his idealism is disappointed by reality at every turn - the other initiates, his Knight, Thaddeus. He has no concept of normal behaviour, and he actively fears doing good now, because he gets smacked down every time he tries. The show doesn't really go into detail on that and the various Brotherhood factions, I guess they're saving that for next season.
To be honest, it doesn’t seem much different than the Christian military orders that went on crusades in the Middle Ages. There was even the scene that reminded me of a catholic school. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t find The Brotherhood of Steel more cult like than any other religious order. If you want to talk about cults, what about that “Flame Mother” crap in Vault 4? But your point about Maximus is a good one, especially the hypocrisy he has seen. The elder cleric even notes at some point that there has been a falling away from the Brotherhood’s values (I think in the first episode, when he says that the loyalty within the Brotherhood has weakened). In a way, Maximus and his fellow aspirants have been as sheltered as the vault dwellers, although Maximus hasn’t been sheltered from injustice. The Law of the Wasteland is “Might Makes Right”, and that, too, is taught in the Brotherhood. At least it seems to be their foreign policy. Setting aside for a moment the notion of “being good”, Maximus does have a concept of nobility and part of that concept is protecting others. And I think that a part of Maximus wants to be noble and wants to be a protector. He’s just not sure how to go about it. He’s not sure which of his instincts to follow. Isn’t that like many of us normal people, muddling through our lives? We want to be better people, but we don’t always know how. Unlike Lucy, Max has had a very ambiguous moral upbringing. The child soldier is a moral child, not quite an adult who accepts moral responsibility. But he’s (hopefully) getting there.
1) Norm checked a list of Vault 33 superintendents. They were all from Vault 31 originally and came in through "trades", arranged marriages, etc. Including Norm's and Lucy's dad. We knew this since episode 1. And including Betty. We just found out. No, it's clearly not a coincidence. 😅 2) As for the bombs... yeah, Lucy and Max are talking about two different events. Lucy asked about 200ish years before, when civilization fell. Max only knew about the bombs on Shady Sands, which fell 20ish years before, when he was a child. 3) Fun fact: Shady Sands is basically the first settlement you encounter in Fallout, and it's important in Fallout 2 as well. The New California Republic, of which Shady Sands was the former capital, was a very important faction up to Fallout: New Vegas. In other words... Shady Sands was possibly the most important and the most civilized place in the new Fallout world. So, for long time players, it was a bit of a shock to find out that it has been destroyed and that the NCR has disappeared. 4) It's not a huge secret, so I guess I can tell you. There are *122* official Vaults across the former US (there might be more _unofficial_ ones, though). The lower numbers (3, 4, 13, 15, 21, 33, etc.) appear to be near the West coast (California and Nevada), while the higher numbers (101, 108, 111, 112, 118, etc.) appear to be towards the East coast (Massachussetts and Washington D.C.). The MMO game Fallout 76 is set in the Appalachian mountains and it begins, of course, in Vault 76.
I think Shady Sands in the series must be located around Silverlake and Echo Park. Although it’s hard to tell, because the show’s geography is supremely foofed. Not that it matters. (And we know most of the exterior shooting locations were not in Los Angeles.)
I think you're misinterpreting Maximus' behavior. he is extremely insecure. Unfortunately, the behavior of beating up weaker ones is widespread among “boys” and the brotherhood encourages this behavior. Unfortunately, the series doesn't really show what a bunch the Brotherhood is. Maximus is not good or bad, he is just a human.
@@InnaSoloTV "Don't be a bully, just because somebody else was a bully to you. I mean like, you should know better." 👉How? Based on what influence in his life thus far would he know "better"? What was happening to Maximus the moment we were introduced to him? The squire he just stepped on reminded us, and explained why. Thaddeus got the other guys to start beating Maximus so they would _stop_ beating _HIM_ . Maximus is young, and that's how he was socialized? What Mother or Father figure did he have, that could have set an example for him so he could "know better"? There wasn't one. (This is a life lesson; about being self-righteous, and judgemental, young Padawan.) Maximus is learning social lessons on the fly, as a young adult, in a cruel world, where compassion is rewarded with betrayal and death. The _ONLY_ positive influence in his life is now Lucy, who comes from a society that thinks they can rehab barbaric Raiders by teaching them Calculus and Shakespeare. Lucy and Maximus are learning the same lessons, from opposite poles. One is learning to temper cruelty and suspicion so he can be stronger with trustworthy teammates, and the other is learning to be harsh enough to survive in a vicious wasteland. The question is, for each of them, in which direction does their internal moral compass actually point? As they learn their "lessons" in the series, "what will they really want, when they become a completely different animal", as the former doctor/now portable head once asked Lucy. Thus, we have a show.
@@3rdOption-l9t Don’t forget Kant and John Stuart Mills! The people of Vault 33 were raised on the ethical philosophies of Kant and Mills-and I suspect their morality is some hybrid between the two. You make a good point about the differences in the moral development of the two characters. Maximus is learning that he is a moral agent on the fly. The moral culture of Vault 33 makes a lot of sense in a closed society. It’s only when the outside impinges itself on Vault 33 that their ethos begins to seem silly and naive. Cracks and contradictions can no longer be easily hidden such as the contradiction between the obligation to observe the rules and the moral obligation to rehabilitate the raider prisoners. Of course, Betty resolves that contradiction in a secret and less than moral manner. 😅 Lucy’s challenge is different than Max’s. Her challenge is how to maintain one’s moral identity in a fallen world. And I think many of us can relate to that, as well as Maximus. Fallout is a fascinating and deep moral tale. It’s deeply embedded in the story (seriously, go look up the moral philosophy of Kant and Mills’ Utilitarianism, if you are unfamiliar with them). It’s not a grossly oversimplified good vs evil story of the light and the dark.
@@3rdOption-l9tP.S. I really love how you are thinking about all this. You have a beautiful intelligence and are adding so much to the conversation. Thank you for sharing your richness of thought. 😅
@@MarcosElMalo2 Wow. Thanks. A very nice compliment. I'm used to explosive hostility and comment deletions. Some of these series' are _far_ deeper than the surface action & drama. And some folks _really_ don't like having that pointed out. Especially if it contradicts their sworn, ego-entrenched ideology. I feel like we should just let each other enjoy what we enjoy, and have productive conversations if that's also enjoyable. If not, leave others to it. ☞ "The moral culture of Vault 33 makes a lot of sense in a closed society." - Thus, Lucy's shock and awe when she dumps herself into a wide open, chaotic, violent...err...society? And then the inverse confusion of Max when Lucy presents an ordered option based on mutual trust. I think the only other exposure he had to that concept was his relationship with Dane. The first few episodes are basically watching two people whose worlds have been rocked by exposure to opposing rule sets they cannot comprehend...yet. ☞ "Betty resolves that contradiction..." It is noteworthy who the Vault 33 dwellers are that arouse suspicion... I Kant imagine what further lessons await, in the series, and the gristMills of the comment sections, and what Utility those lessons might provide... 😉
This episode is the turning point for Maximus' character. For the first half of the show, he wants to do good things but keeps making mistakes and with how he was raised in the Brotherhood, his optimistic perspective of changing the wasteland for the better is constantly challenged. He's become disappointed in the Brotherhood and his own ideals. Lucy, however, brings him back and shows him that there is something good out there, and that he still can be a good person
One of the big aspects of the games that hasn't been in the shows is looting. When your survival depends on having food, medicine, armor, weapons, ammo, etc., you NEVER leave an area without looking for stuff that may be useful. I understand that constant looting in the show would slow things down (a lot), but it would be nice to show it occasionally to let viewers know it was being done even if we don't see it every time.
I think we are supposed to have mixed feelings about Maximus because he is most of us. He was brought up in a moral framework of Might Makes Right (with an overlay of Plato’s Republic). He senses he could be better, to be the hero (the noble knight in shining armor) that he wants to be. And he’s trying to figure it out, like many of us. We have an intuitive grasp of right and wrong, but we aren’t always sure about basic courses of action. Nor are we willing to commit to challenges of “being good”.
For others, they do not have to think about doing the right thing. It’s their automatic reaction.
The key to understanding Maximus is to realise that he was raised a Child Solider in a (semi-)religious cult, and his idealism is disappointed by reality at every turn - the other initiates, his Knight, Thaddeus. He has no concept of normal behaviour, and he actively fears doing good now, because he gets smacked down every time he tries.
The show doesn't really go into detail on that and the various Brotherhood factions, I guess they're saving that for next season.
To be honest, it doesn’t seem much different than the Christian military orders that went on crusades in the Middle Ages. There was even the scene that reminded me of a catholic school. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t find The Brotherhood of Steel more cult like than any other religious order. If you want to talk about cults, what about that “Flame Mother” crap in Vault 4?
But your point about Maximus is a good one, especially the hypocrisy he has seen. The elder cleric even notes at some point that there has been a falling away from the Brotherhood’s values (I think in the first episode, when he says that the loyalty within the Brotherhood has weakened).
In a way, Maximus and his fellow aspirants have been as sheltered as the vault dwellers, although Maximus hasn’t been sheltered from injustice. The Law of the Wasteland is “Might Makes Right”, and that, too, is taught in the Brotherhood. At least it seems to be their foreign policy.
Setting aside for a moment the notion of “being good”, Maximus does have a concept of nobility and part of that concept is protecting others. And I think that a part of Maximus wants to be noble and wants to be a protector. He’s just not sure how to go about it. He’s not sure which of his instincts to follow.
Isn’t that like many of us normal people, muddling through our lives? We want to be better people, but we don’t always know how. Unlike Lucy, Max has had a very ambiguous moral upbringing. The child soldier is a moral child, not quite an adult who accepts moral responsibility. But he’s (hopefully) getting there.
1) Norm checked a list of Vault 33 superintendents.
They were all from Vault 31 originally and came in through "trades", arranged marriages, etc.
Including Norm's and Lucy's dad. We knew this since episode 1.
And including Betty. We just found out.
No, it's clearly not a coincidence. 😅
2) As for the bombs... yeah, Lucy and Max are talking about two different events.
Lucy asked about 200ish years before, when civilization fell.
Max only knew about the bombs on Shady Sands, which fell 20ish years before, when he was a child.
3) Fun fact: Shady Sands is basically the first settlement you encounter in Fallout, and it's important in Fallout 2 as well.
The New California Republic, of which Shady Sands was the former capital, was a very important faction up to Fallout: New Vegas.
In other words... Shady Sands was possibly the most important and the most civilized place in the new Fallout world.
So, for long time players, it was a bit of a shock to find out that it has been destroyed and that the NCR has disappeared.
4) It's not a huge secret, so I guess I can tell you.
There are *122* official Vaults across the former US (there might be more _unofficial_ ones, though).
The lower numbers (3, 4, 13, 15, 21, 33, etc.) appear to be near the West coast (California and Nevada), while the higher numbers (101, 108, 111, 112, 118, etc.) appear to be towards the East coast (Massachussetts and Washington D.C.).
The MMO game Fallout 76 is set in the Appalachian mountains and it begins, of course, in Vault 76.
I think Shady Sands in the series must be located around Silverlake and Echo Park. Although it’s hard to tell, because the show’s geography is supremely foofed. Not that it matters. (And we know most of the exterior shooting locations were not in Los Angeles.)
There were some Vaults around Portland, but apparently the inhabitants drowned in their own smugness before the bombs even dropped. 😂
If you notice, the lights in the hospital were actually leading the way to the trap door room. You're the first reactor I've seen mention them.
I think you're misinterpreting Maximus' behavior. he is extremely insecure. Unfortunately, the behavior of beating up weaker ones is widespread among “boys” and the brotherhood encourages this behavior. Unfortunately, the series doesn't really show what a bunch the Brotherhood is. Maximus is not good or bad, he is just a human.
Oh yeah! I do agree with you, he’s definitely insicure, still I can’t justify his behavior :(
@@InnaSoloTV "Don't be a bully, just because somebody else was a bully to you. I mean like, you should know better."
👉How?
Based on what influence in his life thus far would he know "better"?
What was happening to Maximus the moment we were introduced to him? The squire he just stepped on reminded us, and explained why. Thaddeus got the other guys to start beating Maximus so they would _stop_ beating _HIM_ . Maximus is young, and that's how he was socialized?
What Mother or Father figure did he have, that could have set an example for him so he could "know better"?
There wasn't one.
(This is a life lesson; about being self-righteous, and judgemental, young Padawan.)
Maximus is learning social lessons on the fly, as a young adult, in a cruel world, where compassion is rewarded with betrayal and death. The _ONLY_ positive influence in his life is now Lucy, who comes from a society that thinks they can rehab barbaric Raiders by teaching them Calculus and Shakespeare.
Lucy and Maximus are learning the same lessons, from opposite poles. One is learning to temper cruelty and suspicion so he can be stronger with trustworthy teammates, and the other is learning to be harsh enough to survive in a vicious wasteland.
The question is, for each of them, in which direction does their internal moral compass actually point? As they learn their "lessons" in the series, "what will they really want, when they become a completely different animal", as the former doctor/now portable head once asked Lucy.
Thus, we have a show.
@@3rdOption-l9t Don’t forget Kant and John Stuart Mills! The people of Vault 33 were raised on the ethical philosophies of Kant and Mills-and I suspect their morality is some hybrid between the two.
You make a good point about the differences in the moral development of the two characters. Maximus is learning that he is a moral agent on the fly.
The moral culture of Vault 33 makes a lot of sense in a closed society. It’s only when the outside impinges itself on Vault 33 that their ethos begins to seem silly and naive. Cracks and contradictions can no longer be easily hidden such as the contradiction between the obligation to observe the rules and the moral obligation to rehabilitate the raider prisoners. Of course, Betty resolves that contradiction in a secret and less than moral manner. 😅
Lucy’s challenge is different than Max’s. Her challenge is how to maintain one’s moral identity in a fallen world. And I think many of us can relate to that, as well as Maximus.
Fallout is a fascinating and deep moral tale. It’s deeply embedded in the story (seriously, go look up the moral philosophy of Kant and Mills’ Utilitarianism, if you are unfamiliar with them). It’s not a grossly oversimplified good vs evil story of the light and the dark.
@@3rdOption-l9tP.S. I really love how you are thinking about all this. You have a beautiful intelligence and are adding so much to the conversation. Thank you for sharing your richness of thought. 😅
@@MarcosElMalo2 Wow. Thanks. A very nice compliment.
I'm used to explosive hostility and comment deletions.
Some of these series' are _far_ deeper than the surface action & drama. And some folks _really_ don't like having that pointed out. Especially if it contradicts their sworn, ego-entrenched ideology.
I feel like we should just let each other enjoy what we enjoy, and have productive conversations if that's also enjoyable. If not, leave others to it.
☞ "The moral culture of Vault 33 makes a lot of sense in a closed society." - Thus, Lucy's shock and awe when she dumps herself into a wide open, chaotic, violent...err...society? And then the inverse confusion of Max when Lucy presents an ordered option based on mutual trust. I think the only other exposure he had to that concept was his relationship with Dane. The first few episodes are basically watching two people whose worlds have been rocked by exposure to opposing rule sets they cannot comprehend...yet.
☞ "Betty resolves that contradiction..." It is noteworthy who the Vault 33 dwellers are that arouse suspicion...
I Kant imagine what further lessons await, in the series, and the gristMills of the comment sections, and what Utility those lessons might provide... 😉
Betty probably read the book: Lying, Congressional Style!
This episode is the turning point for Maximus' character. For the first half of the show, he wants to do good things but keeps making mistakes and with how he was raised in the Brotherhood, his optimistic perspective of changing the wasteland for the better is constantly challenged. He's become disappointed in the Brotherhood and his own ideals. Lucy, however, brings him back and shows him that there is something good out there, and that he still can be a good person
One of the big aspects of the games that hasn't been in the shows is looting. When your survival depends on having food, medicine, armor, weapons, ammo, etc., you NEVER leave an area without looking for stuff that may be useful. I understand that constant looting in the show would slow things down (a lot), but it would be nice to show it occasionally to let viewers know it was being done even if we don't see it every time.
Super reaction! love from Russia.
your thoughts about 31 are going into the right direction
You are correct .love the accent ..❤ and your channel 👍🙂
Thank you ❤️
and I'm still playing...
Notice everyone starts acting pathetic once they’re in that armor.
I don't like the powerarmore in the game because you feel exactly that way, you feel save.
Try to remember Betty's statement about both Hank and her both burrying Norm's mother together. It will be important later on...
Curious if you're actually enjoying the show...because it seems like you're mostly annoyed.
Of course I’m enjoying it 😊 I would stop watching it if I didn’t like it
@@InnaSoloTV cool- I don't think I've heard you express enjoyment.
You should react to the last of us tv show
I think that I will soon 😊