is This Pro Team Cheating?
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- looking at Zero Tenacity (Z10) and Nemanha and discussing the allegations of them potentially using radar hacks.
(just a few of) the tweets about them: x.com/kassad/status/179295625...
x.com/jkaem/status/1792956808...
x.com/LNZcsgo/status/17933451...
x.com/jotta_cs/status/1793344...
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Игры
verdict: nothing in this game looks more than a little bit odd (and you'd expect legit players to make odd plays once in a while so it means nothing)
z10 team page: www.hltv.org/team/11523/zero-tenacity
a few tweets i was referencing at the start are in the description (there's a lot more than just those)
A guy that we used to play GO with had a glowup similar to the one you described at the start of the video.
He only queued dust2, mirage, and overpass in GO. Over a thousand hours and hardly ANY other maps played. He never made it out of MG and was well below average. 0.98 KD, 20ish% headshot, 70ish ADR on average. Then CS2 comes out, and he jumps into premier without skipping a beat and is 21k within 2 weeks with a +9.0 leetify rating and 91 aim score. +15/20 ratings on maps he never played in GO. After some demo reviews, it was painfully obvious he was walling.
kek i was expecting him to just have an actual glowup
@plat1n_ Nope. Straight up tracking through walls. Lmao
@@plat1n_ hahaha same lmao i cracked up at the end of that story
@@plat1n_ no, it's just his opponents that glow up through walls
Had me in the first half ngl...
why would a radar hack team play nuke and vertigo
Because at the first banking stage they can only ban 1 map? Idk. Not to be suspicious? Idk. Overconfident? Maybe
yeah people talked about that but it's 2/4 of their most common maps and nuke i believe is their 2nd highest winrate map. it does seem like something where a radar cheat would be hard to use.
You think the radar only has 1 layer 💀
If they are cheating, they are using cheats to enhance their existing skills. Not playing the maps you are already good on because radar hacks might be a little bit less powerful doesn't seem like an obvious choice to me.
😂
He moves like a 35 year old and the way he peeks/clears angles is so lazy. Not enough to say he's cheating but he plays so weird compared to other higher tier players I've watched. My most likely scenario is that he's just having IGL brain where he's focused on comming rotations and coordinating his team rather than crosshair placement especially on a map like Nuke. He plays very funky for a 3.3k elo player but I'm going to hesitantly put it down as igl lazy aim moments.
No skins. Stopped watching right there.
💀
he has a butterfly knife
Then you missed the fact he owns a super expensive knife
Bruh Elige doesnt use skins a lot of the time lol
Can pros use Stattrak guns?
i feel like one would have to look at some rounds where he dies early and could theoretically look at the radar the whole round and make unusual but perfect calls for his team. but maybe that would be too obvious as well
You can definitely make calls that have some info behind it and not be suspicious especially to your team as well. When playing on a team you kinda just run with the fact that the IGL is gonna have more information than you know about when making certain calls. And that’s mostly due to the fact that you are focused on your own game and the IGL is managing everyone’s game.
You can see so many times when he makes the wrong call that he just wouldn't do with a radar hack in CT Nuke.
He stacked B when they were outside A. He rarely called a stack rotates otherwise.
He grenades smokes too early almost 100% of the time.
He looked at the CT yard and the guy jumped him from the red box.
In fact, he cleared angles and got jumped by opponents on another angle several times.
And a lot of the good calls/rotations he did make had viable information.
It's a massive stretch to claim he is using radar from that game.
And on T, he got jumped from unknown angles constantly.
He even threw a longer molly as the enemy was advancing on him and got caught with utility usage several times.
thats no way to prove they arent cheating, if i was walling and let you get the jump on me a few times in a game would you clear me of cheating?
@@1degRazz you say that like there is real evidence of cheating here, there is not.
We should not assume guilt then try to prove innocence, because you cannot prove a negative.
Which is why you need to prove beyond doubt that someone is cheating. And there is barely even circumstantial evidence here.
1 hour voo banger let's go
I think the play at 42:00 was done to catch a glimpse of the player in case they do shift-walk, but it was executed with an incorrect amount of delay so he had to see their gun instead.
It’s interesting he didn’t clear right side secret and several rounds later he does and gets a kill. Could be intuition
These demos still 16 tick like they were in csgo? Do the smokes like up the way they did in the actual match or or they a few ticks off like they were in GO?
the demos seem to be 64t
which's voo?
as my fella neok would say :
"hmmm.. inspecting the default knife"
38:15 "does he know hes awping??" *3 seconds after he saw the guy by the barrel of an awp*
30:27 he thought it was the awper holding here lol
voo certified 6 seconds later
why is your name so familiar, do you/did you play arctic?
holy shit you did lmao i just saw it in one of your vids, i used to play the 5v5 constantly on GO but i rotated names hella
@@senorsac7927 yo brah
3:00 he doesn’t full clear a common corner and instead looks right at the door he is ready to swing. Seems to me, if he was using radar, he got rushed here and knew there was a free kill and lazy cleared just to kind of sell that he wasn’t cheating. I can tell he was even more rushed just because he started running and stopping in secret when right behind the enemy.
Tbf the comparison of Donk smoke spam and this guy I think falls flat a bit because Donk’s spams you can justify and understand. Maybe not in the moment but if you think them through you can figure out why he did it. With this guy, it’s about 50/50, sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it’s just wtf are you doing. And it could just be by dumb luck, he is just spamming stuff when he shouldn’t be and giving over information when not hitting anything, dying out in the open because he doesn’t know how to control a recoil through the smoke, or actually getting the kill. 22:20 I don’t know if his team cleared ramp but I feel like top ramp should be a question mark and he just runs in keeping his crosshair on lobby the whole time, not clearing anything.
30:30 he NEVER clears secret like that, let alone prefires. He is always super sloppy, over peaks the angle, crosshair in the middle of the wall, but now? Now he crouch peaks at the right angle and prefires the guy there?
TLDR: No skins = cheating
For the first example, people fail to full clear this angle all the time. Plus, he heard the default plant and many people do risk getting backstabbed from Control just to deny the plant here. He then proceeds to be completely surprised by the Control player as evidenced by his crosshair movement.
As for the second example, he saw npl trying to watch a Ramp lurker from Heaven. That should give him all the info he needs that Ramp is completely clear of CTs. He watches Lobby because his entire team is on B so CTs could've pushed out. He then gets surprised by another CT from Heaven. Rewatched the whole round and it's even more obvious that there's no CTs Ramp as his team clears it seconds before he reaches it. The only CT even close to Ramp then would be npl whom he actually hears in Hell. So yeah, zero sus about this one.
For the third example, I don't have enough examples to say how he clears from Secret, but he pre-aims and crouch peeks the most common CT angle there. If you had 100 demos where he only does that when someone holds it, sure. But just one instance? Nah. Also, clearly a pre-aim instead of pre-fire since he doesn't shoot fast enough before the guy is already off the angle. You also don't prefire when peeking past an angle like he did with that crouchpeek.
TL,DR; Inconclusive based on one demo. And if you look for a cheater, you'll see them everywhere even when they're not evident.
3:00 i actually think he saw the guy walking control potentially both times (initially going down the stairs, then crossing the corner up the stairs) but i swapped away initially and then the demo sometimes doesn't show exactly what the player sees (so maybe on his screen the foot was visible). in that case there's almost never a guy in the corner on the right. it also looks like he's expecting the guy control side also when he gets the initial kill, but that could just be intuition. (though if it's just intuition, i agree he should've cleared the right side angle)
about donk, i challenge you to look at 8:10 in my donk video (ruclips.net/video/AbWHZnyKqAY/видео.htmlm10s ) -- yeah you can see the logic, but still. i'm clicking convict if that's an overwatch game probably lmao
22:20 his team just went down ramp a little bit earlier so wouldn't make sense for someone to be top ramp
30:30 i'd classify this as odd but it's possible his teammate silo heard the player drop vents and called it. a couple rounds prior (12-9 i think) he cleared secret very similarly but without the prefire which definitely makes the prefire a little extra odd but it's not out of the realms of possibility, esp if he thinks he was spotted already when he got tagged so he isn't worried about being quiet. i'd agree though yeah it's a bit odd.
at 26:16 isn'T it like that: he gets the guy right side, would maybe expect the left player to trade, as you saif yourself, and since that doesn't happen, the left guy does not peek/try to trade, he is then expecting him to be further away!?!
yeah i just would expect the 2nd CT to be holding that first angle that he strafes past (that he prefires in a different round) rather than the 2nd angle. but it's also possible he realized he killed a different player than normally is secret/outer or something so it took a second to register
What confuses me about the last round is why does he go back to t spawn after getting the kill outside while his team is taking b?
in this case i think he can make them perma look for him by going back lobby and either late flanking vents or just going ramp super late. i didn't think too much about it at the time, it's not really a standard play but there's some logic behind it imo
Kids got alligator blood
21:25 can someone explain the « very aggressive » reference please?
john malkovich in rounders. if you find "Rounders KGB Aggressive scene" on YT it's in the first 10s or so. great movie. awful fake russian accent, but somehow it makes the movie so much better
@@itsvoo I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. My grandfather always used to say that when we played chess (because he played super passive). I wonder if it was a reference to this…
Thanks!
@@geronimojones2 if he ever mentioned alligator blood or hanGinG around odds are high he saw rounders
@@itsvoo hmm. No memory of that but thanks again :)
the glock burst kills hahahaha
"i'd go to twitter after that"
idk, feels like pro games are easier and make more sense than my premier games.
gonna grind xdefiant until they fix the anti cheat 🙂
Pro games are definitely more calculated and elaborate than pugs. You can predict what the enemies might do with much more ease, put so much more thought is put into each action that it is ridiculously hard to counter it. As a Faceit 10 player, getting into a temporary academy team that was mostly made out of Level 6 players (and a hired coach that was an actual pro) ruined CS for me because of how much more fun it was to play with a team. Everything, down to when each utility pops and when each player peeks, is practiced to be precise down to margins of error that are much smaller than a second. A lot of strategies are memorized by each player, and if one player throws a flash one second too early or too late, either their teammates die peeking into a position that was supposed to be flashed, or they get flashed themselves and everything goes downhill. Now imagine that much effort being put into every map in the game...
It might seem like most strategies are straight-forward in pro play, but so much is in the detail that makes most counters impossible.
@@Yveldi I've put together a few teams in cs source. i know what you are talking about. but my comment was more cynically related to the cheater debakel in current premier and the closet wallet issue in faceit. DMA is going to ruin every game including valorant. there's tons of them out there and you just know who they are if you play against them.
i am playing xdefiant now until they fix the anti cheat or just completely leave. for one, I'll never find a good team at my age and the pug experience is extraordinarily effed out of propertion.
i would love to get shot by a better player than me and i hate that i have to question either my playstyle or the enemy player. it hinders the learning process significantly. because you might be doing something absolutely right, but due to cheats it didn't work. it's so frustrating dealing with this VAC bullshit now since 2004 or so including all sorts of anti cheats and they were and qlways have been an utter dumpster fire in CS.
this is a great video
12:04 watch
Put it on slowmo, that guy wasent seen aldo...
What am I looking at, him and his teammate failing to coordinate that nade? He spammed one of 2 angles you can spam from Credit Card. What is sus to you?
the no skins gives it away ngl
nothing looked sus imo
why is this unlisted?
wym?
28:26 red box tracking the CT?
Demo, he wouldn't see that. Prob another weird demo glitch
Its only allegations, they are clear as rain
I watched the first 40 minutes, this all seems completely legit to me
yeah pretty much agree
Wild how many times you replayed and overanalyzed random things lmao. The "anti strat" pauses are killing me. I was impressed you realized the blue kill with nades outside was because of nades in a smoke, then you unraveled down a rabbit hole.
they also accused kyxsan of cheating and now he is tier 1 IGL 😅
Lmao how do you make this 1 hr long
No cheating here, move on
your voice sounds like TBAW
About the vent 1v1:
I don't understand what you think is weird about it. He had 2 options: Go through double door side or go through single door side. Single door side is suicide against an AWP. Double door/window just makes more sense and then he happened to see the gun.
no i just thought the extended delay on clearing double doors after opening it was kinda weird. maybe i didn't say the thought process well cuz i was trying to think about if it was weird to delay that long (cuz a split second delay to line up the pre-aim wouldn't have been weird, the extra second he took made it a bit odd)
@@itsvoo I am pretty sure most people understod what you meant.
Don't think they're cheating. They didnt do anything insane. Opponents were just bad
bro spent half the video explaining how to molly outside?
When you review some of his plays you definetely overthink too much. 90% of the times CS is not THAT complex. Guys who are playing tier 2 or 3 are just puggers but with somewhat practices strats. Even players in top 50 teams play random at times. Certain randomness and occasional gambling where enemy might or might not be is still a part of their pug playstyle. Some of his plays like 1:00:58 are a bit odd but still not enough to determine anything. Dude is 95% legit.
a lot of it is just me trying to figure out if it's weird or not and talk it out live. mostly i agree with you, though given other clips and just general pro suspicion i wouldn't go as high as 95%. nothing in this game looked more than a little odd (which basically means nothing unless it continuously happens over many games while always working)
Can also be something like performance enhancing drugs.
Way more common then ppl think.
drugs don't make you see through smokes.
Than*, not then
@@adams3903 yes they do. after 5 days of no sleep they experience psychosis and hallucinations, making them see through the smokes
This video is way too long. I can't focus because I'm worried about the Grizzly Bears.
I don't understand pro players accusing others of cheating, unless you've had a team investigate the demos and you are 100% sure someone is cheating (which has never been the case).
Best case scenario, you look like a fool. Worst case scenario, you turn your fans into angry mobs and send them into a witch-hunt to ruin the career of an aspiring pro player.
SERBIA MENTIONED🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸❤️💙🤍
cant believe voo is only "pretty sure" donk isnt cheating lmaooo
He is russian...
@@joecobb7153 cry
idk man have you seen him PC? its not normally
@@QiuSe Its also spanish ppl that cheat alot in pugs
Short answer, yes. And so are most pro teams ;)
Define "pro". Also, pure copium that most are cheating. I wouldn't even say a significant minority are. Matchfixing is the much more pervasive issue in professional CS and eSports in general, mainly due to the lower risk and higher reward for matchfixing compared to cheating.
@@zettour. I mean alot of them were cheating in 2015-2016
@@joecobb7153 Who? The only documented example of mass cheating in the pro scene would be with the coach bug which was most pervasive during the Online era but occurred from 2016 to 2020 when it got exposed by Loord. Unless you're taking about semi-pro level with like FPL/ESEA? Again, you'd have to define what you consider a "pro" and what you consider cheating. For example, the coach bug isn't something everyone would consider cheating similar to aimbot/walls as opposed to exploiting.
It's also just not possible for most or even a significant minority of pros who attend LANs to cheat. Maybe a handful can get through the more lax security back in the day at some poorly run LANs, but many more would've been caught almost every LAN had they cheated. Yet we really only have f0rsaken as an example. Those pros would've also likely been caught by VAC over the years as VAC got updated to detect some of those more rudimentary cheats back then, but that didn't happen either.
@@zettour. LOL Just showing how little you know about the Private cheat industry bro. Its been this way in CS:GO since 2014 and isnt getting any better soon, regardless of tier, online or LAN it happens at all levels.
@@Ethiixx You believe those cheat devs trying to peddle their shit that's been detected years ago trying to convince people they have almost every pro on their subscription service? Dang dog, you are one gullible person. Again, there's no proof that even a significant minority are cheating, hence why no action is taken. There's also little to no benefit for most pros to be cheating compared to the high risk of ruining your career. I'll believe matchfixing, but you need evidence for cheating considering how unlikely it is for pros, who play CS for money and have been doing so for years, to use cheats when the likelihood of being caught is so exponentially higher due to the more stringent requirements of in the pro scene.
We'd also have to define "pros". Like, are we including FPL and that tier of competition? Most people wouldn't consider just being in FPL to qualify you as a "pro", more like a semi-pro especially nowadays with the state of current FPL. It's when you make it big on FACEIT or in FPL that people pick you up as a prospect. Heck, you could consider anyone with 20k+ premier ELO to be a pro for all I know. Though, if that's the case, you'd still be wrong. You'd have to not know the definition of the word "most".
I am about to start my own CS related company so I watch a lot of t2-3 games and some brazillian ones too.
I can confidently say YES OFFICER, THIS nEMANHA guy right here is the imposter.
More than nuke you should watch his anubis or overpass. Nuke does have A LOT of audio cues to work with realtively speaking.
Without giving away too much what is the company gonna be about?
@@joecobb7153 hello that is my long term friend / business partner. we're working on a program that can rival faceit and have a better ranking system along with several other improvements to stop smurfs and griefers.
@@joecobb7153 Selling readymade profilings on esports teams to other teams. starting with CS2.
with a strict priority of sharing everything with community for free once it's stale.
I've put some effort into my reply but it won't show up. Thanks RUclips!
this sounds like typical business guy boasting, not sure tbh
As of today I have started/owned 0 business-es.
When and if I make it, It'll be free for use and as transparent as possible. Don't worry :)
hes serbian come on that already means hes a cheater lol /s
Jesus mate, you find more excuses for hackers than anything else. "hAcKerR's aReN't tHiS cLeVeR."
these are pros tho? i think i played with and against better players on 17k elo lol
This is top 50 team in world so sure u play with better players in 17 k elo 😂😂
no skins ,doent clear corners, great timing ,shity movment shity aim, hes only kills is from behind or through smokes
bait or mental retardation
LOL even top 1 faceit has cheater so yeah...