So pets are back on the menu. Next PTR build there will be a new talent where you can use your pets again: In our next PTR build, there will be a choice node on Improved Spotter’s Mark called “Unbreakable Bond” that restores Call Pet and associated pet functionalities such as Mend Pet, Dismiss Pet, etc. Additionally, this talent will improve the durability and damage output of your pet to better compensate for the potential throughput loss. They could have just moved the AoE/Cleave talents for the patch and call it a day in the first place😄
Love this change, always hated that I was tied to a physical pet. Love that I command, almost like a spirit animal, that swoops down. Maybe a few glyphs that helps us customize our kindred spirit beast in the sky. Raven, Eagle, Hawk, Owl....
@ Yeah, thats what I am hoping. So far it has not matched their initial post about this great companion we were getting, but I guess we will get a little bit more in the coming weeks.
@@Zieg_Games Its been like that pretty much since Dragonflight. I didn't really touch MM in BfA and Shadowlands, but since Dragonflight there has been more similarities to how MM played in Legion. AoE pretty much the same, trick shot, aimed shot/rapid fire, while single target has been a lot more like Legion now in The War Within (well except vulnerable which I thought was fun, little bit of skill, and unfortunately some rng :P )
why does the pack leader boar wear armor i.e. is domesticated and not a wild one, but the bear and wyvern do not? all or none, but i like that added tidbit, so its not the same as the wild animals of dire beast
I just don't get one thing.. the casting time of Aimed Shot will be reduced by what exactly? I mean I don't want to be casting those 2.3 Aimed Shots lol...
1 stack of streamline makes it 1.6 seconds for me, and 2 stacks makes it a 0.94% cast. Now I dont have much haste at all, but we have 3 talents that adds streamline to more abilities(explosion shot, precise shots AS and MS and ofc Rapid fire) And then we have Improved Streamline, and Tensil Bowstring gives it another 50% effectiveness during Trueshot. Then we also can talent into On Target that gives haste buff(though the other talent that improves Auto-Shot might be the better choice, but we'll see how they tune this) All in all I don't feel a lot of difference in Aimed Shot cast time, though the initial shot is ofc slower. I feel streamline is up a lot as well though in the spec I had atm on the PTR got all the streamline improving talents :P
They need to make it pull a bird of prey from your stable to use for the animations. They need to add a flavor ability to call it down and do a lil rp thing, like the falconry animation would be good. I think its nice to not have to micro manage it and its just visuals, so they need to just let us do some customization to those visuals by using one of your stabled bird of preys.
Yeah, thats what I want as well. Personally, I dont mind losing the pet function as I mostly raid and do m+, though I understand that the option to use pet should still be around. BUT visuals, bring it on. The falconry animation is a good suggestion, make it an eagle version:)
dont like the new dire beast leap effect --- the old leafy one had this vibe "the wild beast rushed out the surrounding bushes to aid u", and i think hunter should keep a bit more nature/wilds theme, instead of just going with animal wrath and bloodrage vibe red palette. also, all animals can rush/fly to ur aid, but some animals wont use leaps to attack thats just how they work --- like the stag, that looked just silly AF
@@DoffenGG well its the same leap as the howl of the back leader bear leap, but for that one it looks fine. those two abilities can look differently, no one gets overwhelmed by that blizzard
@@eyeofthasky A difference between them would make it easier to see what you proced too, especially as BM. When I tried it now as BM I couldnt really see if I proced a Howl Bear or a Dire Beast Bear almost :P
I love the pack leader changes, as a survival main, I’m now a true pack leader and fighting alongside them. It’s super fun, but my issue is it’s currently in a weird unfinished state where we get a random 25 second window to summon a beast even outside of combat when sitting in a home area or something, if we don’t summon any of those beasts for 25 seconds, we have to wait another 25 seconds, for instance the bear cooldown ran out right before I wanted to press kill command and when I did, it didn’t summon it, I have to wait, which is really annoying. I’m saddened for the removal of the sentinel owl on sentinel, mm would have been a untargetable bird spec, but now the stars come from nothing. I think the biggest change, which is for BM and SV hunters is the ability to change pet specs at our stable, we can use whatever pet we want, I had many pets I dreamed of using during bfa and shadowlands, they were left to dust in the stables, now I can use them without any weird gut feelings, ferocity raptors and stags, here we come!
Sounds like an unintentional thing that, probably supposed to be starting when you enter combat. I tried it on the PTR just now again and it spawns immidately when I start combat, even if outside the timer. It should obviously be on a internal CD so it waits or spawns immidiately when you start combat. I tried 5 times now, outside of timer and it did spawn immidately. Probably not working as it should 100% yet. About the Pack Leader changes, overall pretty good changes. They did nice with that imo. I am sad too about the owl, I hope they revert it. Might be the sound that some people got annoyed of, but they could just decrease volume on the ability lol. Going to make a little video of the pack leader changes later on.
the stars are warcraft3s tyrande/moonpriestresses starfall, so i _really_ appreaciate that those projectiles actually do look like the ones back then -- and even if it hadnt an owl attached to t starfall back then i wouldnt say that it doesnt fit it since the moonpriestresses also had a spectral owl spell --- BUT i am sure the owl IS intended to still be there, this bolt of energy still jolts out of u above the target which is completely nonsensical if there is just supposed to be a beam to come down, so i think the owl effect just got lost somewhere along the way; or they have to adjust the owl flight pathing since now the area is moving
@@eyeofthasky Indeed, I think they always were intended to be based on that, Night Elf Arcane magic, but for the ability the actual talent description got renamed AND icon got changed. It now says launches Celestial Arrow, while the current one with the Owl says Celestial Owl. Not only that as I mentioned, but the current live icon is an owl. While the 11.1 one is not anymore. So they seems to have gone away with the owl completely and intentionally. They probably read that some dwarf or troll hunters didnt like having the owl as it didnt represent those races or something. I find it weird that they changed it when they already worked on it while having the owl being the "star" of the ability.
@@DoffenGG the subspec is called "SENTINEL" which is a specific night elven order :D so they willingly joined them, if u wanna frame it that way. or if u take "sentinel" just literal as a word, then it should be any other (flyiing) animal of their hometurfs that does have the same sentinel behaviour --- a carrion bird, like in lucky luke circling above the corpses :D
@@eyeofthasky oh yeah, totally agree with you. Just trying to see a reasoning why they changed it. Hopefully they can change it back, but not getting my hopes up. I liked that owl. The whole thing reminds me of the old Sentinel talent and the trinket from Tomb of Sargeras which proced a celestial owl, and it fits the fantasy pretty good imo. The animation is a bit weird now too as the actual moon that shoots those stars is so high up you cant see it if you have your camera normally. Not even if you change it so you see a bit up either. You gotta be far away and look pretty far up to see it.
I like the idea, but i was specting for morr eagle animations. Like when it is not spotting the enemy return to you for example, . Right now is just a moment when you see the eagle.
Yeah, agree with that. I was hoping the eagle would be more around us, outside of gameplay, but a visual thing for the feeling of having the companion. Now we see it for a second every now and then. During trueshot it could come down and attack the target, just like the Lunar Storm Owl.
Yeah it'd be cooler if the eagle was much more like an actual hunting falconry companion. As it is, it just feels like a quick proc almost like a visual from a set bonus. Quite underwhelming. Have it circle us and perch on our wrist optionally outside of combat too
Yeah, I think so too. The Wyvern is doing the same thing as the Sentinel Lunar Storm Owl which they are changing into a celestial arrow. They kinda went all in with not letting MM have any pets lol :P But, more eagle!
Update for the Howl of The Pack Leader: The summoning order of Pack Leader’s beasts is no longer random, and Beast summons will no longer repeat. The summoning order is Wyvern, Boar, Bear.
very disappointing. I want my sentinel owl back! Also intimidation pet leaping from a far giving them stun looked really cool even if it had a bit of a delay. That eagle is barely noticeable. And I say it again I want my sentinel owl back!!!
@DoffenGG I could understand that owl didnt make much sense for some races but for my night elf it was everything I could have hoped for to get that W3 Tyrande vibe with owl and "starfall"
hey, yeah, they are:) Just says you cant do that yet if you try to summon them. You have them for your other specs so its no difference when it comes to your pets.
Its random yeah. It seems to be cycling through every 25 seeconds, even out of combat. Not sure if thats intended. Would be nice with a set rotation I reckon. Visually really nice, but I guess there will be some tweaks to the gameplay.
From the next ptr build it is now a set rotation:) The summoning order of Pack Leader’s beasts is no longer random, and Beast summons will no longer repeat. Developers’ notes: The summoning order is Wyvern, Boar, Bear.
@DoffenGG oooh nice, what are your thoughts of the order? I feel starting with the wyvern is a good build up in general and the boar going Second will be really nice for single target. But I wonder how that will impact aoe?
@MrMatalo123 Overall the damage boost makes most sense as its start of combat and thats goes for any type of fight. In opposite of starting with an AoE based boost on Single Target boss fight and you pop all cds and bloodlust and just end up with the bear damage instead of the flat damage boost for the initial burst. For AoE you still end up with the overall damage boost so all in all this rotation of the pets seems most logical:)
i hate that our 2 min healing cooldown we got from tenacity pets for marksman is gone and they gave us a 3% damage negation instead. That is a huge nerf to the marksman survivability which is really sucks
Yeah, that was and is one of my big concerns coming into this. Fortitude of the Bear is an excellent defensive CD and has saved me a lot in TWW. We kinda need this, its a lifesaver in higher m+ keys.
I can relate to that. Personally I dont mind a lot with these changes, but when we came from Legion to BfA and how clunky MM became to play then I didnt play MM before Dragonflight. Its always sad when something you like gets changed into something you dont :/
Unacceptable to remove a core feature of the class for one spec like that. They didn't have to remove the pet, they chose to. That's how much they asked around or thought about their players (they didn't)
Yeah, would be great with options. I kinda like having an eagle myself, but options is always the better deal when it comes to things like visuals imo.
Blizz, "Hey BM Hunters, we want you to have more options with pet numbers, so we're giving you either a 2 or 1 pet option! But, F you MM Hunters as you get NO PET AND YOU'LL LIKE IT!" Me, "Right... /unsub & /uninstall" I lasted for roughly 2 years with a constant sub, which is the longest I've been subbed since the game's launch. I took a 8 year hiatus from Cata to Mid Legion, and I think I'll be doing the same. These devs literally don't have a plan at all.
Lunar storm seems pretty damn terrible. No pet to keep mobs in place, so they're just gonna run out of it. Restricting it to a specific area seems pointless if they aren't having it attached to an owl flying circles anymore. They should just have the shards hit whichever mobs have your dot, wherever they may be. In any case I'm not a happy camper with this patch. My entire concept for my mechagnome hunter with his robo pets is now ruined, because no matter what I'll have to have random animals jumping in and messing up my look.
I dont understand why they removed the Owl from it. It was pretty cool in the last iteration(on live now) but they now changed it to a lunar beam. A sentinel owl fit nicely into the class fantasy and they just removed it. I guess the reason CAN be because the Eagle is now doing like the owl did, but seems strange either way. Its fine that they wanted to rearrange some talents, but I dont think many asked for this rework. Blizzard not liking Lone Wolf is the issue. Lone Wolf made Hunters taking a choice if they wanted to go with pet or not. Blizzards nerfs to LW didnt help so now its gone with pets and the choice. The Eagle better shape up at least, this isn't enough. It sounded like them removing pets was going to be great as we would get this awesome eagle to interact with. Now its a letdown. They kinda have to do better.
@DoffenGG Oh I'm the complete opposite to be honest. I hate the eagle idea. It feels like more and more they're adding these animals to hunters that we don't get to choose. It's one thing if they want to reduce the interaction MM has with pets. But they should still let us use an animal of our choice. Like let us assign one from our stable or something, like BM can do for its secondary pet.
@@OmegaSoypreme no I agree with you, this rework came out of nowhere for my part. Its more that since they now went this,way, they should do better than this. I really like how MM play these days, so at once I read the notes back in december I was really afraid they would mess this up. I still think of how they butchered it in BfA and it wasnt really fun to play again before Dragonflight. I really enjoy how it plays on Single Target with Wailing Arrows and Trick Shot AoE is enganging. Now they dont seem to mess up the gameplay rotation wise, but there are several issues they gotta adress, because this doesnt seem finished. They made a 2-cleave talent which is good, and made Multi Shot baseline and Trick Shot higher up in the tree. So that is good.
As a filthy casual, I usually run MM with a pet, as I tend to do solo content more than anything else. However, I like lone wolf (when I can) to give me a ranger/archer vibe. The change they're implementing seems to bite me on either end. If I want a pet to tank for me in solo content, I'm SoL. If I want to _lone wolf_ it, I still get an eagle flying in, taking me out of my archer vibe. Looking on the bright side, maybe blizz is doing this because they plan on adding an archer/ranger class.
Taking away the option is a bad call imo. I don't mind much personally as I like the archer type, but imo removing it is a bad choice for players like yourself. I use my pet some times too doing world stuff, for tanking or just getting the BL(now I dont have too of course) but I cant tank alone. Saying that, using some hunter tricks to run away and kite stuff is pretty hunterish!
i dont care not having a pet since the ai on the pets its pretty stupid and its been annoying to uses since forever, but the howl of the pack leader beeing i assume a cycling passive seems like shit why not let as choose what fucking animal we want and thats it, if you cant depend on the reliability of a buff i dont want it, like anything else in this game
I dont get their reasoning either. I thought they had Lone Wolf for some player agency, but now they just removed it. Like, I like to play MM without pet. But the option should still be there. And I enjoy good visuals. Some interaction with an eagle that we dont have to control, perfect. But not instead of the option of having a pet. And not in current iteration on the PTR.
@KillerBee300 But we gotta use pet to use Bloodlust. But yeah personally I play without a pet. Its more the option for those who play with pet. And many hunters do not raid or do mythic+, so using it in the world is a necessity for many.
@@DoffenGG I totally get that, but you could also just play BM too, especially if you’re not a fan of hardcore endgame it doesn’t really matter what spec was stronger anyways. I know the rotation is slightly different but honestly it’s kinda the same 1212 but faster.
@@jconic6023 We could say that about every spec though, but every spec got their own fantasy, playstyle, gimmicks etc. Its not just changing spec or class and its fine that they changed your favorite spec into something you don't like. But this isn't really the argument here as its about Marksman and what people want it to be etc. I for one don't care if I lose the pets or not, I don't like that management anyway. And I do raids and m+ so the new fantasy is fine. Just don't mess up a lot with the other things and I won't personally complain. But I do know that those who like pets also for Marksman also should be heard. I want more eagle. That's it really :-)
I just laugh at all the whiny morons complaining about "no pets"....I mean....pets are basically cosmetic for MM anyway & contribute VERY little to your actual DPS. If you want to use pets, play a different spec. Plain & simple. Stop wasting your life complaining about something trivial and change your damn spec or even try a different class.
So pets are back on the menu. Next PTR build there will be a new talent where you can use your pets again:
In our next PTR build, there will be a choice node on Improved Spotter’s Mark called “Unbreakable Bond” that restores Call Pet and associated pet functionalities such as Mend Pet, Dismiss Pet, etc. Additionally, this talent will improve the durability and damage output of your pet to better compensate for the potential throughput loss.
They could have just moved the AoE/Cleave talents for the patch and call it a day in the first place😄
Really hope they add a glyph that lets us change the eagle. If anything, I want a bat cause I play dark ranger.
Yeah, hoping they add glyphs to customize it!
as a MM hunter wo had a whole lore witten about my pet, i just can't live without it... RIP MM for me.
Love this change, always hated that I was tied to a physical pet. Love that I command, almost like a spirit animal, that swoops down. Maybe a few glyphs that helps us customize our kindred spirit beast in the sky. Raven, Eagle, Hawk, Owl....
Yeah, and I want to see more of the eagle. The concept is cool, I just think they went a bit light on it.
@@DoffenGG Its a start. They are typically very timid about throwing a bunch of assets at a new design.
@ Yeah, thats what I am hoping. So far it has not matched their initial post about this great companion we were getting, but I guess we will get a little bit more in the coming weeks.
@ gameplay wise, its basically Legion MM, but better.
@@Zieg_Games Its been like that pretty much since Dragonflight. I didn't really touch MM in BfA and Shadowlands, but since Dragonflight there has been more similarities to how MM played in Legion. AoE pretty much the same, trick shot, aimed shot/rapid fire, while single target has been a lot more like Legion now in The War Within (well except vulnerable which I thought was fun, little bit of skill, and unfortunately some rng :P )
Welcome to Legion MM.
This is a great change.
You still have the single pet gameplay from BM via talent.
Legion MM is my favorite iteration of any spec. So fun! Boomkin WotLK and Arcane Mage Cataclysm as nr 2 and 3 :>
why does the pack leader boar wear armor i.e. is domesticated and not a wild one, but the bear and wyvern do not? all or none, but i like that added tidbit, so its not the same as the wild animals of dire beast
Easier to tame maybe :P
they're all rexxar's pet's who pack lord is based off of
This is the content im here for....also... MORE EAGLE
YEP! MORE EAGLE!
I just don't get one thing.. the casting time of Aimed Shot will be reduced by what exactly? I mean I don't want to be casting those 2.3 Aimed Shots lol...
1 stack of streamline makes it 1.6 seconds for me, and 2 stacks makes it a 0.94% cast. Now I dont have much haste at all, but we have 3 talents that adds streamline to more abilities(explosion shot, precise shots AS and MS and ofc Rapid fire) And then we have Improved Streamline, and Tensil Bowstring gives it another 50% effectiveness during Trueshot.
Then we also can talent into On Target that gives haste buff(though the other talent that improves Auto-Shot might be the better choice, but we'll see how they tune this)
All in all I don't feel a lot of difference in Aimed Shot cast time, though the initial shot is ofc slower. I feel streamline is up a lot as well though in the spec I had atm on the PTR got all the streamline improving talents :P
I love it
Pack Leader is kinda like Rexars animal companions
Yeah, pretty much ^^
They need to make it pull a bird of prey from your stable to use for the animations. They need to add a flavor ability to call it down and do a lil rp thing, like the falconry animation would be good. I think its nice to not have to micro manage it and its just visuals, so they need to just let us do some customization to those visuals by using one of your stabled bird of preys.
Yeah, thats what I want as well. Personally, I dont mind losing the pet function as I mostly raid and do m+, though I understand that the option to use pet should still be around. BUT visuals, bring it on. The falconry animation is a good suggestion, make it an eagle version:)
dont like the new dire beast leap effect --- the old leafy one had this vibe "the wild beast rushed out the surrounding bushes to aid u", and i think hunter should keep a bit more nature/wilds theme, instead of just going with animal wrath and bloodrage vibe red palette. also, all animals can rush/fly to ur aid, but some animals wont use leaps to attack thats just how they work --- like the stag, that looked just silly AF
Yeah, the stag looked funny lol. Not sure whey they changed it to leap, but some times Blizzard just want to change stuff I think.
@@DoffenGG well its the same leap as the howl of the back leader bear leap, but for that one it looks fine. those two abilities can look differently, no one gets overwhelmed by that blizzard
@@eyeofthasky A difference between them would make it easier to see what you proced too, especially as BM.
When I tried it now as BM I couldnt really see if I proced a Howl Bear or a Dire Beast Bear almost :P
I love the pack leader changes, as a survival main, I’m now a true pack leader and fighting alongside them. It’s super fun, but my issue is it’s currently in a weird unfinished state where we get a random 25 second window to summon a beast even outside of combat when sitting in a home area or something, if we don’t summon any of those beasts for 25 seconds, we have to wait another 25 seconds, for instance the bear cooldown ran out right before I wanted to press kill command and when I did, it didn’t summon it, I have to wait, which is really annoying. I’m saddened for the removal of the sentinel owl on sentinel, mm would have been a untargetable bird spec, but now the stars come from nothing. I think the biggest change, which is for BM and SV hunters is the ability to change pet specs at our stable, we can use whatever pet we want, I had many pets I dreamed of using during bfa and shadowlands, they were left to dust in the stables, now I can use them without any weird gut feelings, ferocity raptors and stags, here we come!
Sounds like an unintentional thing that, probably supposed to be starting when you enter combat. I tried it on the PTR just now again and it spawns immidately when I start combat, even if outside the timer. It should obviously be on a internal CD so it waits or spawns immidiately when you start combat. I tried 5 times now, outside of timer and it did spawn immidately. Probably not working as it should 100% yet.
About the Pack Leader changes, overall pretty good changes. They did nice with that imo. I am sad too about the owl, I hope they revert it. Might be the sound that some people got annoyed of, but they could just decrease volume on the ability lol.
Going to make a little video of the pack leader changes later on.
the stars are warcraft3s tyrande/moonpriestresses starfall, so i _really_ appreaciate that those projectiles actually do look like the ones back then -- and even if it hadnt an owl attached to t starfall back then i wouldnt say that it doesnt fit it since the moonpriestresses also had a spectral owl spell --- BUT i am sure the owl IS intended to still be there, this bolt of energy still jolts out of u above the target which is completely nonsensical if there is just supposed to be a beam to come down, so i think the owl effect just got lost somewhere along the way; or they have to adjust the owl flight pathing since now the area is moving
@@eyeofthasky Indeed, I think they always were intended to be based on that, Night Elf Arcane magic, but for the ability the actual talent description got renamed AND icon got changed. It now says launches Celestial Arrow, while the current one with the Owl says Celestial Owl. Not only that as I mentioned, but the current live icon is an owl. While the 11.1 one is not anymore. So they seems to have gone away with the owl completely and intentionally.
They probably read that some dwarf or troll hunters didnt like having the owl as it didnt represent those races or something. I find it weird that they changed it when they already worked on it while having the owl being the "star" of the ability.
@@DoffenGG the subspec is called "SENTINEL" which is a specific night elven order :D so they willingly joined them, if u wanna frame it that way. or if u take "sentinel" just literal as a word, then it should be any other (flyiing) animal of their hometurfs that does have the same sentinel behaviour --- a carrion bird, like in lucky luke circling above the corpses :D
@@eyeofthasky oh yeah, totally agree with you. Just trying to see a reasoning why they changed it. Hopefully they can change it back, but not getting my hopes up. I liked that owl. The whole thing reminds me of the old Sentinel talent and the trinket from Tomb of Sargeras which proced a celestial owl, and it fits the fantasy pretty good imo.
The animation is a bit weird now too as the actual moon that shoots those stars is so high up you cant see it if you have your camera normally. Not even if you change it so you see a bit up either. You gotta be far away and look pretty far up to see it.
I like the idea, but i was specting for morr eagle animations. Like when it is not spotting the enemy return to you for example, . Right now is just a moment when you see the eagle.
Yeah, agree with that. I was hoping the eagle would be more around us, outside of gameplay, but a visual thing for the feeling of having the companion. Now we see it for a second every now and then. During trueshot it could come down and attack the target, just like the Lunar Storm Owl.
@@DoffenGG Blizzard please pay attention here and take notes! ^^
@@jigsavvv We can convince them!
Yeah it'd be cooler if the eagle was much more like an actual hunting falconry companion. As it is, it just feels like a quick proc almost like a visual from a set bonus. Quite underwhelming. Have it circle us and perch on our wrist optionally outside of combat too
@Okarine-n4h indeed, that would be better!
i have to agree. I wouldnt mind the eagle as pet iof it was a bit more prominent. maybe have it circle above like the wyvern.
Yeah, I think so too. The Wyvern is doing the same thing as the Sentinel Lunar Storm Owl which they are changing into a celestial arrow. They kinda went all in with not letting MM have any pets lol :P But, more eagle!
Update for the Howl of The Pack Leader:
The summoning order of Pack Leader’s beasts is no longer random, and Beast summons will no longer repeat.
The summoning order is Wyvern, Boar, Bear.
Good news MM hunters can keep their pets. Blizzard listened to feedback
I’m so happy hunters are getting treated better this expansion. Any word on the Solitary Companion talent for BM?
I wish they would update cobra shot.
Definitely in time for that, agree!
very disappointing. I want my sentinel owl back! Also intimidation pet leaping from a far giving them stun looked really cool even if it had a bit of a delay. That eagle is barely noticeable. And I say it again I want my sentinel owl back!!!
Yeah, we are many in that boat. The we want owl back boat. I think its very cool. Will be a bit sad if they go through with these changes.
@DoffenGG I could understand that owl didnt make much sense for some races but for my night elf it was everything I could have hoped for to get that W3 Tyrande vibe with owl and "starfall"
@HadamacikTheProphet Yeah, agree with you. Owl or other bird would fit other races too, so the Owl is great imo!
Are the pets still in your stable?
hey, yeah, they are:) Just says you cant do that yet if you try to summon them. You have them for your other specs so its no difference when it comes to your pets.
Do the packleader summons come out in a specific order or is it random?
Its random yeah. It seems to be cycling through every 25 seeconds, even out of combat. Not sure if thats intended. Would be nice with a set rotation I reckon.
Visually really nice, but I guess there will be some tweaks to the gameplay.
From the next ptr build it is now a set rotation:)
The summoning order of Pack Leader’s beasts is no longer random, and Beast summons will no longer repeat.
Developers’ notes: The summoning order is Wyvern, Boar, Bear.
@DoffenGG oooh nice, what are your thoughts of the order? I feel starting with the wyvern is a good build up in general and the boar going Second will be really nice for single target. But I wonder how that will impact aoe?
@MrMatalo123 Overall the damage boost makes most sense as its start of combat and thats goes for any type of fight. In opposite of starting with an AoE based boost on Single Target boss fight and you pop all cds and bloodlust and just end up with the bear damage instead of the flat damage boost for the initial burst.
For AoE you still end up with the overall damage boost so all in all this rotation of the pets seems most logical:)
Since classic I played as an archer with that pelted enemies with arrows while my bear friend biscuit tanked for me. Gonna miss him for sure...
Single pet BM is going to be available
@@Zieg_Games Except it's an unbelievable dps loss and also has a bunch of summons you can skill out of ;p
@@MagusLeaf Still on PTR so numbers can still change
@@Zieg_Games Unfortunately I've tried single pet BM before, it's not a lot of fun when a solid 30-40% of your damage is gone ;p
@ Thats a numbers thing, and numbers can be tweaked
i hate that our 2 min healing cooldown we got from tenacity pets for marksman is gone and they gave us a 3% damage negation instead. That is a huge nerf to the marksman survivability which is really sucks
Yeah, that was and is one of my big concerns coming into this. Fortitude of the Bear is an excellent defensive CD and has saved me a lot in TWW. We kinda need this, its a lifesaver in higher m+ keys.
@ hopefully people cause an uproar about it and they let us have it
@usaid1234 Yeah, we need that defensive.
Overwhelmingly saddened by all these changes.
I can relate to that. Personally I dont mind a lot with these changes, but when we came from Legion to BfA and how clunky MM became to play then I didnt play MM before Dragonflight. Its always sad when something you like gets changed into something you dont :/
@@DoffenGG I really enjoyed the Windrunner talents, and you know... having a pet, and having pets you could tame.
@Shuddupandplay the Windrunner/Wailing Arrow talents are great indeed. Going to miss them. So satisfying to shoot Wailing Arrows:)
Hope they remove the primal rage sound after the eagle scream. It sounds a bit silly xD
"More eagle" like MM hunters didn't want the pets gone 😂
@@Echo22WC as long they are not in the way 😃
Lone wolf enjoyers eating good
as a MM main of 20 years, I absolutely hate this. Not letting me use my pets ive collected over time is heresy.
Unacceptable to remove a core feature of the class for one spec like that. They didn't have to remove the pet, they chose to. That's how much they asked around or thought about their players (they didn't)
What do you think about the visual changes so far?
not a huge fan not enough eagles and losing the owl for sentinel is really upsetting
Yeah, agree with that.
Yeah animation should be slower and also should change depending on your stable pets, maybe glyphs could help with that.
Yeah, would be great with options. I kinda like having an eagle myself, but options is always the better deal when it comes to things like visuals imo.
Wow this is quite a sad state of affairs for MM hunter
Blizz, "Hey BM Hunters, we want you to have more options with pet numbers, so we're giving you either a 2 or 1 pet option! But, F you MM Hunters as you get NO PET AND YOU'LL LIKE IT!"
Me, "Right... /unsub & /uninstall"
I lasted for roughly 2 years with a constant sub, which is the longest I've been subbed since the game's launch. I took a 8 year hiatus from Cata to Mid Legion, and I think I'll be doing the same. These devs literally don't have a plan at all.
Lunar storm seems pretty damn terrible. No pet to keep mobs in place, so they're just gonna run out of it. Restricting it to a specific area seems pointless if they aren't having it attached to an owl flying circles anymore. They should just have the shards hit whichever mobs have your dot, wherever they may be.
In any case I'm not a happy camper with this patch. My entire concept for my mechagnome hunter with his robo pets is now ruined, because no matter what I'll have to have random animals jumping in and messing up my look.
I dont understand why they removed the Owl from it. It was pretty cool in the last iteration(on live now) but they now changed it to a lunar beam. A sentinel owl fit nicely into the class fantasy and they just removed it.
I guess the reason CAN be because the Eagle is now doing like the owl did, but seems strange either way.
Its fine that they wanted to rearrange some talents, but I dont think many asked for this rework. Blizzard not liking Lone Wolf is the issue. Lone Wolf made Hunters taking a choice if they wanted to go with pet or not. Blizzards nerfs to LW didnt help so now its gone with pets and the choice.
The Eagle better shape up at least, this isn't enough. It sounded like them removing pets was going to be great as we would get this awesome eagle to interact with.
Now its a letdown. They kinda have to do better.
@DoffenGG Oh I'm the complete opposite to be honest. I hate the eagle idea. It feels like more and more they're adding these animals to hunters that we don't get to choose. It's one thing if they want to reduce the interaction MM has with pets. But they should still let us use an animal of our choice. Like let us assign one from our stable or something, like BM can do for its secondary pet.
@@OmegaSoypreme no I agree with you, this rework came out of nowhere for my part. Its more that since they now went this,way, they should do better than this.
I really like how MM play these days, so at once I read the notes back in december I was really afraid they would mess this up. I still think of how they butchered it in BfA and it wasnt really fun to play again before Dragonflight. I really enjoy how it plays on Single Target with Wailing Arrows and Trick Shot AoE is enganging. Now they dont seem to mess up the gameplay rotation wise, but there are several issues they gotta adress, because this doesnt seem finished.
They made a 2-cleave talent which is good, and made Multi Shot baseline and Trick Shot higher up in the tree. So that is good.
@DoffenGG I am going to give it an honest chance. Just home from work now so I'm going to get the ptr client and check it out.
As a filthy casual, I usually run MM with a pet, as I tend to do solo content more than anything else. However, I like lone wolf (when I can) to give me a ranger/archer vibe. The change they're implementing seems to bite me on either end. If I want a pet to tank for me in solo content, I'm SoL. If I want to _lone wolf_ it, I still get an eagle flying in, taking me out of my archer vibe.
Looking on the bright side, maybe blizz is doing this because they plan on adding an archer/ranger class.
Taking away the option is a bad call imo. I don't mind much personally as I like the archer type, but imo removing it is a bad choice for players like yourself. I use my pet some times too doing world stuff, for tanking or just getting the BL(now I dont have too of course) but I cant tank alone. Saying that, using some hunter tricks to run away and kite stuff is pretty hunterish!
i dont care not having a pet since the ai on the pets its pretty stupid and its been annoying to uses since forever, but the howl of the pack leader beeing i assume a cycling passive seems like shit why not let as choose what fucking animal we want and thats it, if you cant depend on the reliability of a buff i dont want it, like anything else in this game
It's a trash update. Losing tons of game play options. Destroys the spec to remove pets from them after TWENTY years.
I dont get their reasoning either. I thought they had Lone Wolf for some player agency, but now they just removed it. Like, I like to play MM without pet. But the option should still be there. And I enjoy good visuals. Some interaction with an eagle that we dont have to control, perfect. But not instead of the option of having a pet. And not in current iteration on the PTR.
You MM hunters all yall do is run no pet anyway just because of the damage increase.
@KillerBee300 But we gotta use pet to use Bloodlust. But yeah personally I play without a pet. Its more the option for those who play with pet. And many hunters do not raid or do mythic+, so using it in the world is a necessity for many.
@@DoffenGG I totally get that, but you could also just play BM too, especially if you’re not a fan of hardcore endgame it doesn’t really matter what spec was stronger anyways. I know the rotation is slightly different but honestly it’s kinda the same 1212 but faster.
@@jconic6023 We could say that about every spec though, but every spec got their own fantasy, playstyle, gimmicks etc. Its not just changing spec or class and its fine that they changed your favorite spec into something you don't like.
But this isn't really the argument here as its about Marksman and what people want it to be etc. I for one don't care if I lose the pets or not, I don't like that management anyway. And I do raids and m+ so the new fantasy is fine. Just don't mess up a lot with the other things and I won't personally complain. But I do know that those who like pets also for Marksman also should be heard.
I want more eagle. That's it really :-)
I just laugh at all the whiny morons complaining about "no pets"....I mean....pets are basically cosmetic for MM anyway & contribute VERY little to your actual DPS. If you want to use pets, play a different spec. Plain & simple. Stop wasting your life complaining about something trivial and change your damn spec or even try a different class.
I unsubbed after being subbed for 2 years straight. Blizz doesn't deserve a single dime from me if they're going to take away options from me.
Make survival ranged again.
Eww fuck no