The Modern Antinatalist
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- Antinatalism is the philosophical belief that it’s immoral to have children. What does this ideology entail and why has it become more popular recently?
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All music was produced and created by myself
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
2:42 Asymmetry
4:12 Pain
5:54 Bringing A Life
7:43 Omelas
9:22 Children Suffer
12:14 Licensing Parenting
15:21 Why
17:29 Living Morally
Films, television shows, and other media mentioned:
True Detective, Manchester By The Sea, Doug Stanhope: No Place Like Home, Brothers, Full Metal Jacket, Louis Therou: Extreme Love - Autism, Boy Interrupted, American Beauty, Rick and Morty, Snowpiecer, Mr. Nobody, Wonder (2017), I Saw The Devil, The Fabelmans, Hereditary, The Pursuit of Happyness, Mr. Robot; Synecdoche New York; Watchmen, Gummo, Parasite; Love Death Robots: Pop Squad; Babylon, Breaking Bad, Precious, The Incredibles, The Martian, Interstellar, The Tree of Life, Coraline, Requiem For a Dream, Her, One hour photo, Stronger, Kids (1995), Mid 90s, Aftersun, Cmon Cmon, Prometheus, Blade Runner 2049, Nightcrawler, Fight Club, Se7en, Prisoners, Joker, Donnie Darko, The pianist, Arrival; Yours Mine and Ours; Man Of Steel, Brazil, Blonde, There Will Be Blood, Batman V. Superman, The Lord Of The Rings: Return Of The King, Three Billboards Outside Ebbing Missouri, Children Of Men, Better Call Saul, Goodwill Hunting, Ikiru
A.I. Generated Imagery from Midjourney was used for the pictures during The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas portion.
• Joe Rogan Experience #... David Goggins Joe Rogan Episode 1212
• Joe Rogan Talks Us Thr... Joe Rogan Cold Plunge Video
Hugh Lafollete Licensing Parents essay published in 1980 by the Princeton University Press
www.hughlafollette.com/papers...
Questions, feedback, or anything else, contact me at solipsistcinema@proton.me
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Fair use is applicable to all the movie and television show clips used in this video, as specified in Section 107 of the Copyright Act. I am in accordance with all four aspects of this act. Part 1 is the purpose and character of the use. I am in accordance with this because I am commenting, reviewing, educating, and transforming the context and content to a point where it is something new. Part 2 is the nature of the copyrighted work. I am in accordance with this because I am not trying to present the used content as my own and am commenting on it and using it to create something new. Part 3 is the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole. I am in accordance with this because any of the clips I use are a inconsiderably small portion of the source material. Part 4 is the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. I am in accordance with this because my use of the material will have no financial harm upon the original work and I am crediting them easily so viewers can view the content for themselves. 
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If life was a video game, I would have requested a refund way time ago...
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bounce house sometimes is okay too .,
And yet you didn’t. Hypocrite.
@@greengreengreen5132What did blud mean by this 🗣🔥🔥⁉⁉⁉⁉
I don't even want my money back just take this game away from me.
@@ChrizzyYeahh unfortunately once brought into this mf game there's no way back
"The more I learn about the world the less I understand why im here"
Natalist: Nothing is better than being alive.
Antinatalist: Yes, nothing IS better than being alive.
@@axeSyntax how many holes does a straw have?
@@greengreengreen51321
You can take nothing from not.
Nothing, by definition, cannot be better, unless "Nothing" were a state.
Not existing didn't stop _this_ life from being the one imposed, so had you not been born, what would have stopped some other life from being the one imposed?
@@naturalisted1714what if the"nothing"is the living state of uor spirutual nature before our forced reickarnations?Then which is better?...the forced reickarnations or BEFORE which is NATURAL lived nothing?
A man who has no worries, the man who don't have to pay his taxes nor does he has to go to a job, he never experiences depression nor jealousy. He is transcended from all the greed and desires that the world has to offer. He does not harm anyone nor he gets any harm, Doesn't have to 'fit in' just so he can make a acceptable survival in the morden society, he never has to worry about his looks, no regrets, no expectations from any distance. And that is a man who never came into existence.
Such person doesn't exist, so there can be nothing good for "him".
Non-existence is the good. It is the ONLY good. @@thejohnreview9650
@@thejohnreview9650Yeah, in the nothingness. For, he is never born in the first place. Absence of both pain and pleasure. The nothing.
@@dannyboy3413 Less than nothing
@@thejohnreview9650 Nothing is something. So we can't really describe, nor imagine what nothingness is.
None of us asked to be here, but we all have an expiration date. Unfortunately it's not stamped on the bottom of our foot.
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bouncy castle sometimes is okay too
Shut up Pronatalist.
@@gleelights9525 You replying to every comment with the same copy pasted comments shows how childish you are
@@gleelights9525it is😮
Yeah, the anxiety of not knowing when I’ll expire kills me. Being mortal is not fun
Can’t make the best of life when the best of life is death
Noticed that you aren’t dead. Too much of a coward or are you just being an edgelord?
This
True
Yet I'm still here another day another headache 😂🤣
Poetic irony.
I've always found it confusing when people say "it's better to be alive than dead". Feels like a pit in my stomach every time I hear it. Seeing the dead at funerals somehow feels comforting. Knowing that I too someday will be dead is comforting.
It is comforting because they are at true peace.
I know that there is no free will, but I could literally punch those people in the face, because they are lying . They don't believe what they are saying, but they're too cowardly to face the truth.
@@KyleEvra after all the mess of this existence
Dead... I envy them so badly.
@@KyleEvra You will get there some day. Cioran said there is no bother of killing yourself since you always kill yourself too late. We will die with minutes, hours, days, years, decades, it's ok
Na fam, the fact that 2 people got freaky in the sheets and now I have to pay just to survive is WILD, can I get a refund or sue them?
Same
And even if you don't want to pay to survive in the human society and fully embrace monke to live in the forest, you still have to fight for survival nevertheless. Additionally, you will have to go through the agonizing process of regression because you are essentially forcing your body (and mind) to reject the results of thousands of years of evolution, both physically and mentally just to adapt to a more primitive and animalistic lifestyle. You simply can't win in life.
They probably didn't even love the other either.
@@dullknifefactory That's even worse
@@SimplyDuker lol yep
Existent people: feel sad for not having pleasure because of the presence of pain
Non existent people: don't feel sad for not having pleasure, because there's no pain, so the lack of pleasure is not a problem as they don't suffer for the absence of it
Agreed.
Non Existence is better because they don't need pleasure to feel at peace and they are safe where they are.
No. Dead people don't feel anything. They don't exist. They can't feel anything and thus it doesn't matter that they don't feel pain since they can't feel pleasure either. Living people, on the other hand, can feel more pleasure than pain by working on themselves and being in peace of mind. Thus, being alive is statistically better as there is a greater chance of feeling pleasure than being dead. Just because you are sad, doesn't mean that everyone is. Don't try to convince other people that aren't buying into your shit when they shouldn't.
People who don't exist have no thoughts, that is why they "don't feel sad". Not because there is no pain
@@KyleEvraNonexistence can't be better, because it's not a state that anyone can be in. It has no properties.
3rd dimension talk lmaoo@@thejohnreview9650
I wish more people understood
As a Antinatalist I wish more people had more ❤️ Empathy towards their own Kind spare them away from this terrible cruel harmful existence.
I think antinatalism solves nothing. You can’t stop people from having kids. So you leave the worst people to do so.
I also wished people could understand that, if there's no pain in non existence, then we wouldn't be sad for not having pleasure, we wouldn't miss having pleasure because we would be at a peaceful state, just like sleeping
Unfortunately, i feel like only a huge wave of pain will make everyone realize that better is to feel nothing than to feel pain, you heard it right, of course neutrality is better than pain, because i wouldn't want anything as i wouldn't feel anything, not even the feeling of not having pleasure
No you have it backwards.
Non Existence is better than Existence.
Me too brother… when I was young I did want to have kids but.. I don’t want more people to suffer like I do.. especially since I’m an empath perhaps that will go to them too..
"The cry of a newborn is the beginning signal of his malevolent and chaotic course of his life. I've never heard any news of anyone born who's giggling upon coming out in this world."
Epic
Because the act of being born at all is traumatic and chaotic. That’s our first experience in life
No giggles bc birth is traumatic.
And we come in a crying mess and we go out a dying mess.
@@twinsoultarot473 lol, not funny...there are, however, some exceptions. My late, beloved husband with COPD, loved life despite his difficulties, but sadly, he did die a mess. They opened his throat and stuck a tube into it 😢
A lot of people are afraid of being alone and alone with their thoughts. They are afraid of the truth and feeling pain...they would probably reject Antinatalism.
Rejection of Antinatalistsm is Lack of Empathy 💔
More and more people are choosing not to have children.
@@sonicleavesthat's not true but ok...
@@promisingnotes8597 I'm not going to post the studies but yes, it's actually true, especially in Western countries. You can look that up yourself. Population decline.
@@promisingnotes8597it actually is in todays current state of affairs.
Existence harms everyone, non existence harms no one
YES
Preach it!
🙌🏽❤️
Well put!
Actually when you make fewer and fewer people exist on earth, institutions, society, and communities fall apart and the remaining people suffer. While when more and more people exist, we go from 28% infant mortality to less than a percent, and various other qol improvements as we work together and push humanity forward. Suicidal or extinctional thought is basically a modern luxury seeing as the people who suffered most never even considered it, simply by the fact we're all here.
@@keion_arknights A point into it comes with a deal of what is being willing to be sacreficed for a smile, like bringing those people into suffering can help everyone though it is pretty Scraficial.
It's very intersting to see and understand as another aspect, Personally would like to explore it more while I still stick with the natilist thing of overcoming suffering through struggle is worth expericing due it's reward.
I do see their point of living morally it's like a similar deal with having to eat, as you need to sacrifice another living being to keep yourself alive, you need cause suffering to live while suffering yourself to obtain more.
to Stick to my prefernce I do wish to better think about the topic, Might change my mind as thats a risk i have to take in to continue on, as I can't just decide to inogre such a valid point.
I'm antinatalist and been depressed for as long as I can remember. I finally got to this point in my life where I had this epiphany "why does life have to have a meaning? what if there is no grand purpose?" and it was pretty freeing. When you think about it, our first purpose was to be offspring because our parents wanted that. But we've already gone and served that purpose, so now what? Nothing.
Yeah it sounds like you were a nihilist and then became an absurdist. This transition has been popularized by themes in Rick and Morty (I’m not sure if you watch it but just a recommendation lol) but that’s awesome you feel somewhat better about your own existence now. I’m trying to as well.
@@thesolipsistcinema I've never heard of "absurdist." but yes, it is exactly that. While I do think that I have purpose in my current line of work (MA and receptionist at Dr's office that specializes in comprehensive care) where I am able to empathize with other people with chronic illness and disabilities, I don't think it's necessarily my grand purpose or that I was put on the earth for that. It's more like I was brought here because my parents wanted a child and then I found a way to make all of my miseries purposeful and a tool to help others who are also miserable. Your purpose is whatever you want it to be and it can constantly evolve. There is no destiny. The reason this is freeing is you cannot be a failure. When you "fail" you're only finding out that whatever you're doing just doesn't work at this point in your life, and that's great news because it means that you can move on to something else. When I lose my passion or "purpose" in my current position, I will move onto something else that makes me feel fulfilled.
That's true, biologically we are here to breed. Life has no other meaning unless u attach another meaning to it.
@@robynhope219 And to die. Everything is a cycle. There is the middle step inbetween which is being alive and living, but that is another can of worms entirely unfortunately. Who knows what happens after death even, another reincarnation and thus the cyles kicks back in? Is immortality even possible? Questions but as always no answers.
@@Lyu-Phy I'm ok with unanswered qs. One thing is for sure: I will not return to this hellhole called life.
A lot of people are too scared to have these ideas, thanks for actually putting them into a video. These ideas really are worth sharing, even if they are pretty scary, because they do make sense and are valid. I agree with you, which is why I also dont intend on having children since I believe its a pretty selfish act.
Just because I want to have a purpose in life, Im supposed to bring another self aware being into this meat grinder we call a universe? That does not sit right with me.
Thanks for the support! It did feel a bit odd writing this and a lot of worry about it being misinterpreted but I think it’s a necessary idea to spread.
@@thesolipsistcinema One would have to lack a sense of nuance to misinterpret the video. I could easily see you arent exactly telling the world to off itself because everything is horrible, just thinking rationally about our situation and exercising all of our options.
It's a selfish and evil act in my opinion.
you can't have a purpose in life without leaving a legacy that would be inherited by the next generations.. so giving up on having a child also means giving up on the idea of having a purpose.
@@redhat4363good, parents have no other natural purpose. creating a purpose out of thin air just for the sake of having a purpose is an act of desperation and extreme neurotic insanity.
"dont end your live if you suffer just dont create another one to suffer with you" Wise Man Once Said
inmendham?
True
Misery loves company, right?
ideally I never would have been born. I am generally happy. and I am going to make the most of my life. but my parents were not fit to raise children.
Were you always generally happy? Or is it something you had to work on? & if yes, how did you work on it?
@@chronic.dementia Ive come to realize (ive only 17 btw) that as long as im not physically in danger or in need of food that I can take some deep breathes look around and realize that we are in an absolutely insane time. we are in different parts of the world and communicating. vsauce2 or vsauce3 idk which one has a recent video on happiness. that helped me understand what happiness actually is as I believe the happiness as we try to understand it does not exist. the paradox of needing negative to have positive comes into play. the lights are on and I have food in my fridge. it is not joy per say like im at a carnival riding roller coasters but I dont feel bad so I must feel good. I feel as though a major problem with our mental health is understanding that. it is a strange feeling when I came across it and I think this was the antinatalism video which I kind of agree with but at somepoint during the video he mentions "bringing a being into this world and knowing they will feel pain" or something like that. but you cannot BE if you never were. You definately cannot feel joy if there wasnt the pain along with it. this topic devolves into philosophy. I happen to have taken LSD within my lifetime and I hope that a therapy guided trip is possible in the near future colorado has legalized pcilocyben (lmao spelling) in a theraputing sense IDK how its being implemented but I tink it will have major societal implications in how we understand happiness. I definately do not reccomend pcychodelics. but the happiness you are trying to achieve simply does not exist. same with the creator of the video. IDK where I was initally going with this but I hope I have shed some light on my ways of thinking. this was a long somment but I hope it finds you well best of luck to you. PS if you are looking into things that can give you meaning I would def recommend western esotericsim look up "esoterica" YT channel or a google search of esoterism. same goes for you YT guy who made the it was well made BTW if you are reading this
@@shadowface108 my arms broken and im hung ry lol
@@mirosymo3331 Well damn. I wouldnt be cheering if I was in that position. do you have any1 to feed you or are you just going to starve? Wait how did you type this
@@shadowface108 one arm
And yea its just tough thesr days
There are aspects of life I definetely enjoy, but I will never deny that there is way more suffering to life than joy. Even when youre born into a good family, most of your day is filled with things you dont want to do but have to do to keep going. Thr human brain is more strongly wired towards that negativity as well, so that tells you a lot about the human experience.
So all you need is a much more negative experience to recalibrate your set points and make you more grateful for simple pleasures!
I've recently started drinking wine and found my mood improve.
I am more creative, more willing to go out, more aspirational in terms of expression.
this disgusts me, that I need any aid to have any will to live.
it feels like I'm trapped within myself because I am too cowardly to blow my brains out.
I think we all need “aid” to have will to live but some outlets are definitely healthier than others. That’s awesome you’re being more creative and hopefully you can find the right balance of vices to live a meaningful life.
Yea that worked for me for a while then I became alcoholic and my problems only worsened.
I sobered up for a year and did all the right things, best i could, it didn't seem to help. I hope you find a way.
My cope is blatant tax evasion and weapon procurement.
@@acegikm same and now im dealing with the consequences of ruining my life because of alcohol
I thought my mother was having a parental moment of revelation during my dad's final days of destruction by cancer. She spoke to me and my sister, with a sentence starting "sorry". During the pause that preceded the rest of the statement, I believed that she was about to apologise for the suffering of dying that we will one day face.
She wasn't. She finished the sentence by saying "...but when it's my time, I'll kill myself before I go through that hell." Parents simply do not make the connection between their decision to breed and the misery that it imposes.
Edgy
Most people have kids with only the positives in mind, even if the positives are all delusional.
The ability to conceive children shouldn't be as easy as it is. The world sucks and most people are not aware of the proper way to parent children, guessing your way through isn't good enough either.
Equally, as a man I hate that women have to suffer so much during childbirth. It's not fair and it's fundamentally fucked up, such a beautiful thing as creating a new human, is predicated on so much suffering and bloating and possible Post Partum Depression and all the other stuff that happens to women's bodies because of childbirth. If I was God I'd have childbirth be the most easiest and peaceful process for both the mother and the child.
I believe they just think its the normal thing to do.. everyone does it so.. so must I.. kind of thing. Everyone has this gucci bag.. I want it.. you know
@@moonxcc like ur doing
@@moonxcc appeal to popularity
If people could see the world for what it truly is,
see their lives for what they truly are, without dreams or illusions,
I don't believe they could offer the first reason why they should not elect to die as soon as possible. Sunset Limited, The (2011)
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bounce house sometimes is okay too .,;:
@@greengreengreen5132 I used to care a lot of things , now mostly i don't .
Antinatalism is a rational philosophy but some people criticise it without any reason. The main reason people criticize this philosophy is on account of ignorance. They are reluctant to accept the harsh reality of life.
Also people's feelings are getting hurt when they hear about this.
@@wefeelthereforeweexist. yeah
I tried to tell someone this today. “Do u think giving birth is immoral?.. the babies were forced into this world.. they werent asked if they want to come here” Their response was.. sorry? What? I think giving birth is normal . That is a dumb question, no offense.
@@moonxcc most people never question these things that's why when you tell someone this, they'll think it's all nonsense. Their mindset is: since everyone is doing, it must be a normal thing and there's nothing wrong if I do it too.
It's good their feelings are hurt they need to wake up from their Pronatalism.
to me, life is not a gift and it is a curse that I will inevitably face my expiry date and all sufferings from life that can overwhelm the pleasure of life in the most intense way
I feel like I was given a death sentence since the day I exist
my parent divorced when I was 4 years old and it causes me lots of mental pain when I face the consequences of it.
Embrace Antinatalistsm.
There are some shitty gifts, life is one of them.
Agreed.
Grow a spine it's Because life is so easy nowadays people cry about tiny little obstacles
@leebennett1821 that's the party line.
I think anyone who is considering bringing in more people into this world should seriously ask themselves this: "Knowing what I know about how the world works and how shitty it can be, do I really want to subject another being to it?"
If their answer is "yes", then they need to see a psychiatrist.
Psychiatrists themselves are not immune to such thinking. And the sad reality is, very few, if anyone, give this question any real deliberate thought.
Not a psychiatrist as they are too corrupted.
This is why I don't like my parents, they were both toxic pieces of 💩, I'm ashamed of them 😡
> Putting pressure on emotions
> Calling all dissenters crazy
Rational philosophy!
They shouldn't ask either a psychiatrist because most of them are reluctant to buy the idea of preventing the procreation.
Ironically compared to many ive had good people surrounding me, the problem is i got saddled with a mental problem that makes me unable to trust anyone. I regret being born. And soon i will be able to correct that error.
Please don’t kill your self
@@Blazingstudios882Shut up
Are you still here?…
@@moonxcc yes unfortunately
Я тоже скоро уйду, устал от депрессии
Every day I find new reasons to Not bring children into the world. 😑
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bounce house sometimes is okay too .,;:
@@MUSICAXCESS why not
Same here!
@@greengreengreen5132what does that have to do with anything about antinatalism
@@Padlaizys it's a bot
As a cinephile & anti natalist, this video is masterpiece
That’s awesome to hear, thank you.
I really wish there was a list of the movies and shows used in this video. Some of them really caught my interest in just the few short seconds they were shown. Aside from Breaking Bad and Fight Club, I didn't recognize anything. I did look up True Detective and added it to my brain's watch later list, but I wish I knew what some of the others were!
@@JW-vi2nh 31.11111111111111111111111111111%
@@JW-vi2nhAll of the footage I use in the video is listed in the description 😊. It’s not in order (due to constantly moving footage around and using multiple clips from movies), but hopefully that helps a bit. I don’t want to put the text of the movie on screen for every single clip because I don’t want it to be too distracting, however in my video coming out next week about sexual assault scenes in film, I have titles for the movies I use on screen so let me know what you think! I know it’s a hassle writing down timestamps to ask me, but if you ever do comment a question, I’ll definitely respond. I’m so late to this one because your comment is a reply to someone else’s original but if you do an original comment I’ll see it faster.
@@thesolipsistcinema thank you very much
Excellent work man. Thanks for spreading the message. The difference between antinatalism vs promortalism is not addressed enough.
Thank you for talking about this, a lot of this was relatable.
Thanks for watching. I’m happy you liked it!
What an excellent exposition here. Great work 👏🏽
Thanks!
a child is not your property, is not a thing you acquire just because you want to. it is another human being, another person you bring to this place without consent but, they just do not give 2 F about it. they think this person they create belongs to them.
Agreed!
They act like Children are their Property like a Dog.
@@KyleEvra most people out there are just pieces of crap. let's talk about parents. clearly one of the main reasons they have kids is to have someone to take care of them when old and useless. they talk so casually about it and amazingly, see nothing wrong with that. imagine that, you create your own caregiver and this poor idiot will have to become a slave, will have to submit to this system and all because they wanted their personal caregiver. you hear them saying, had i not had any kids i wouldn't have someone to bring me to the hospital. and we are supposed to respect parents? to love parents? they are pieces of $hit. doing something unnecessary to someone else just to benefit themselves. in my opinion every parent is a piece of Fing steaming crap. they deserve that title for using a person like that. but all the idiots out there are brainwashed into thinking they are some kind of heroes and deserve to be celebrated. i fail to see why.
Yes, children are an extension of mostly the mother´s ego
I loved the raisedbynarcissists subreddit. Parents who have kids for Instagram clout and the equivalent are the worst.
@@skylinefeverIf they still approach parenting responsibly and take care of their children, then what's the problem?
I never asked for any of this. 🤷🏻♂️ and I certainly don’t understand how we put our wants ahead of natures needs..I want no part of it.
What the hell does that even mean? ‘Put ourselves before natures needs’?
Were you high when you wrote that nonsense?
My biggest concern isn't any of this, it's the best case scenario. We can all agree that someone getting a terrible disease or something like that is less than desirable. My issue is that if none of that happens, you become an average human today. And the average human today spends 8+ hours a day doing things he or she would prefer not to do for the benefit of people they might never meet, who are already rich. And this is only after going to school and possibly university, where you will be taught complete subjugation to these supposedly superior beings who own everything. My ideal is to break that cycle, not bring another being into it so it can keep going for who knows how many millennia.
I think it's just a problem of thought, you don't want to serve other people and it's ok. But you are tied to the system and without a system you cannot survive. Unless you have several people who want the same thing,
I agree, we are forcing worker slaves into existense
My mum told us we all have a death sentence and laughs about it she is narsasistic she brought us here knowing this and that we will suffer age die its the dying process not everyone has a swift death alot of people will suffer in pain when dying 💯🔥👍
Nah she was just a sheep having babies like everyone else. If she was 100% narcissistic she wouldnt have had babies cuz it hurts to give birth.. so much
You can always end it yourself when the suffering is not worth living anymore, dunno why that is an issue
@@doraafelfedezoofisolHe’s a narcissist is all. He hasn’t ended it because he doesn’t want to, he just wants attention.
The ugliness and cruelty of the nice people!
I generally like life. I like sunlight, and making art, and the sensation of swimming in the river... But there's so much uncertainty, and so many things I'm fundamentally not okay with, both in the world as a whole and in my country specifically, that I really wouldn't want to bring an innocent human being into this world to deal with this crap. Maybe I'll regret it when I'm old, I don't know.
You are wiser than most.
@@txlyons2937 or just more pessimistic.
@@nobody-nk8pd Ignorant people often mistake honest realism for pessimism, because the truth makes them uncomfortable. They'd rather stay shut inside their box of cozy falsehoods.
Don't regret it.
Be at ease and peace with yourself not forcing innocent sentient beings to experience death sentences.
It's fine to like your Life but don't force it on another.
Love this video. Thank you
I’m glad you liked it!
this is the reason people believe in God or an afterlife, so they can convince themselves there is more than just this flesh prison on earth
Everything about God doesn't seem benovelent
And thus, religion is evolutionarily superior to atheism.
very true
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case that our desires can shape the fundamentals of our universe.
but in Buddhism, Buddha told life is suffering
As a Antinatalist myself.
This video finally gets it.
innocent sentient beings didn't consented to Pain, Suffering and Death ☠️⚰️
How is death bad when it leads to what you consider the better state "non-existence". Death can be painless
Like I said!
Innocent sentient beings didn't consented to
PAIN
SUFFERING
AND
DEATH 🪦☠️⚰️
How dare you try to justify Life as Good.
Procreation is immoral because Children didn't consented to becoming Wage Slaves as they get older.
Children never consented to having Cancer nor Experience Pain.
How can you be okay with Life knowing that Children break their arms everyday and get to experience their first dose of intense Pain.
I could go on and on about how very wrong it is to impose and force Life onto an innocent sentient being who didn't need nor want to exist in the first place.
@@doraafelfedezoofisol You dont know that, even tho it seems like the logical next step. For all we know we might be reborn again, we did not ask to be born here in the first place after all, did we? Atleast not that I could remember it myself. Apparently non existence is not the end, but merily another state of existence or being (sleep is also nonexistence or similar if you think about it). But who knows.
They also didn’t consent to not being born.
@@Noplayster13Exactly! They didn't even have the ability to give their consent and hence it's an enforcement and thus immoral to give birth.
the good years came and went
it wasnt a lot of years though
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bouncy castle sometimes is okay too
is it okay?@@gleelights9525
@@beganitdidnt6535you also think deciding to have ketchup on food is too
I didn't have to read a book to know I was better off not being, I just have to experience living.
holy fucking shit I have organically come up with that same hypothetical as "Omelas" before hearing about it here, it was a utopia except there was one cell with one guy who was getting infinitely tortured prometheus style
I came up with something similar and decided no one's happiness is worth one person's torture, and that's what led me to antinatalism. It's funny when I watch progressive channels a lot of my original ideas turn out to not be so original.
Parents view their offsprings as an extension of their selves. They need kids in their lives to foster, preserve, and augment their selves. In other words, people are constantly looking for ways to validate their existence through various means. Bringing kids to this world is just one of the more prominent ways.
By not having kids, just remember that you are saving millions of lives who will never exist because of you, and never have to suffer.
Very interesting and wise philosophy ❤
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bouncy castle sometimes is okay too
@@gleelights9525 ?
@@gleelights9525Uhmmm why wouldn't it be? Could you explain?
Yes… ‘wise’
😂
Parents out there, when your child asks you a point blank question 'Father, mother, why did you bring me into this world?' How would you answer your child? Will you answer your child honestly like, 'Child, the reason why we bring you into this world is because we love ourselves. We need you to exist so that we can associate you (to enjoy pleasures) even if it means suffering for you!' This world is all about you scratch my back I scratch yours. People are so selfish to the extent that they are willing to pawn their child in exchange for the pleasures that the world has indoctrinated them. Most people are not willing to accept the truth. They only want constant assurance in what they believe in to be the truth.
People have some concepts wrong. Anti-natalists don't advocate suicide or any form of violence. 'Natalism' refers to child bearing.
So, the whole concept is anti child bearing, nothing to do with those already alive.
All the time people say, if the world is that bad, just commit suicide, people already have!
That's only one example of how we or anyone with half a brain come to understand, that life comes with suffering, and it's that which proves our point.
Life = Suffering.... it's not that hard an equation.
Those who have had children already, will find it hard to admit this, because they know it's too late for them.
I completely agree that people do not seriously consider wtf they are doing having kids
Let me tell you something you already know my son,
the world isn't all raibows and shiny stuff,
the world is a TOXIC waste which wears on you the longer you live,
no matter how much you do what your parents say,
life will beat your arss hard with all the stuped education and toil,
better to never have been, just like uncle David says,
earth is not a place to bring your precious kids into,
do not be a fool, kids are happy when you dont give them a body
-Rocky Balboa from an alternative universe
thanks from korea.
Me either🎉
Greetings my fellow Korean from another Korean
Amazing video
Thanks man!
You have ONLY one purpose here : to be a living battery for the Matrix.
How awful, isnt it?
That book reminds me of The Giver.
I have children, and I feel this lingering feeling of guilt having placed them here. Now that they are here, it is my undeniable responsibility to pour my energy into preparing them for suffering and helping them seek joy.
I heard something cool about how life is just the universe’s natural trend toward increasing entropy - life accelerates the process - pretty cool to know that we (all life not just humans) are the most effective tool for the universe to move energy from one state to another.
How will you prepare them for suffering
@@ayamystic2 being open a honest with them in all things. Validating their confusion, discomfort, pain when they express it. Encourage them to engage in activities that may lead to failure and help them process failure. You know - basic parenting principles that take work and patience. Easier said than done, but I own up when I fail with them. The concept of infallible adulthood is not something I subscribe to.
Lol "woopsies life's hard bucko" - you parents are so silly. Clowns. Bringing kids here then having a "welp, I guess i put you in a blender" situation. All because you either 1. loved intercourse or 2. think you can plan another's existence. Good for you but still - super humor
For me, as an antinatalist, the focus is more on the sheer gamble with another human's life, than on the proportion of pleasure/suffering. The infinite list of straight up horrific outcomes to the possibility of which your parents expose you by having you makes having a kid simply insane. Just one example is that ELEVEN MILLION PEOPLE were HOLOCAUST VICTIMS. And all of them were just normal people like you or me, there is no reason why that also couldn't be you. People often say that about car crashes or cancer "Nah that won't be me", and they're always wrong. It is unbelievable to me that a person supposedly loves me more than anything would do this to me. Imagine you and me lived together, you were at home and I went out, and I came back and said to you "Holy shit dude look at this I just won a million dollars, we will split it in half!". You would love me! But imagine that you then asked me "How did you win this money?" and I responded with "A guy came up to me on the street with a coin (Anton Chigurh style) and said "If you guess the coinflip correctly, you get one million dollars. And if you guess wrong, that friend of yours who stayed in your apartment will be taken to Guantanamo bay and tortured for the rest of his life." How would you then feel about me? About me taking that gamble? Yeah it ended up great, but look at the gamble I made with YOUR life. You would probably never speak to me again. Fucking insane.
So I can't have children because 70 years ago a lot of people were killed? How is this related at all?
Firstly, the probability that everything will be very bad with the child is much less than 50%. Many natalists will say that if the risks are so high, it is better not to give birth.
Secondly, the analogy is incorrect because there is a difference between "creating X" and "acting on X". You and I already exist and actions towards us will have a different status, since the whole situation is completely different.
Man, antinatalists are all over the place. “All humans should be killed!” Right next to “The Holocaust was an example of pure evil.”
Is death good or bad? Make up your mind…
It’s also just so plain and simple and clear and easy to understand. But for these parents it’s rocket science. Impossible to comprehend. And that’s what makes it all the more frustrating, at least for me personally. Being intelligent enough to have common sense and having parents who are just totally clueless. Every time this topic comes up my dad says the same bullshit. “Oh but son there is so much potential for happiness in this world”. I bring up all the atrocities and hellish shit that goes on every day and it’s like he can’t hear me. It just goes over his head completely. Like he’s a non-playable character and it’s just not in his software to be able to respond realistically to what I say. Honestly makes me feel like I am the mother and father of not just myself but also my parents. So draining. At 23 I am ready to go to sleep forever. And no I don’t have FOMO. That is a marketing tactic used to convince you that you need shit you absolutely don’t.
I absolutely loved this video! As a 38 year old woman who never wanted or had kids, never wanted to be and never got married, I've never been traditional in any sense of the word. The ideas of getting married and having kids being the picture perfect life has always just... disgusted me. It has always seemed so selfish to bring unwilling parties into existence for your own fleeting HOPE of happiness or pleasure. The idea of basically telling someone that you love them so much that you want them to sign paperwork to bring the government into the situation if they ever want to leave you is just stupid to me. People see these same cycles of monotony and misery repeated over and over all around them, yet they seem to never stop to question whether it is something they actually want, then they just become another person in that cycle. It really is absurd.
Thanks for watching! And yeah it’s crazy how little though a lot of people give to the ethics of bringing someone into existence.
Preach it!
😊❤
@@KyleEvra 3.6555555555555555555555555555555
antinatalism cannot be refuted, it is the greatest philosophy
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bounce house sometimes is okay too ..
@@QuantumEigenstateDevice What by a cart you aay?!?! That rail was not the favorite thing you acted like a summer salt and buy a new one immediately!!!.. There wad not eniugh question marks to go around full of the goat lies!!. Thht was a diagonal googly roar that the cra light went out on you!!!.. There was a wobbly jay are fan on you that was acting like a spinning saws that went up to the apple and bite it!!!.. Tou actsd like there was a bunch of smiley faces that grown frowned on you you!!.. There jim!!!.. You better know that tinkertoy and elmo don't have time forcthat
I disagree
It relies on claims that are unverifiable and highly subjective. It’s a garbage philosophy that breaks down the instant you apply logic to it. No wonder the only people who espouse it are narcissistic emotional wrecks.
@@-caspo- 75.55555555555555555555555555555%
The world rots by the very specie that is supposed to care for it.
The legend goes that when the Buddha was born, he took seven steps in each of the four cardinal directions and declared that this was the last time he was being born and that after this, he will not be born again.
Buddhism is an antinatalist ideology.
For the record, I am an antinatalist. I've had my ups and downs but overall my life so far has been better than average. But I still wish that I had not been born.
Buddhism is against procreation, not because it cares about children, but because nothing should keep a monk in the physical world. Besides, if you are not a monk, then you can have a family and children. Also, from the point of view of Buddhism, it is the best to be born as a human, because only human can become a Buddhist and get out of Samsara. Otherwise, you will endlessly be reborn into animals, insects, demons and other shit in an infinite number of dimensions.
Good video 👍
Thanks!
amazing music in the background, thank you
@lovethyneibor22736 Thank you!
Very well done video,you get my like.
Thanks very much.
I wish I never was born I had alot of mental emotional abuse by my father when I was 15 took enouth pills to kill me unfortunately my sister found me in time they lost me a few times I lived they saved me it would have been a painless death I went to sleep with the pills I took
I was in that headspace too.
@@MikaePark-6 sorry to hear that life sucks hell on earth
@@jacquelineentwistle5091 That's why I do my best to turn it the best way possible, not taking life seriously - it can stress us, people, too much and too many times.
@@MikaePark-6 so true agreed 👍
You feeling any better now, my brother was a bit like that as a kid I always tried to support him and make him feel better
I'm only 9 minutes in and your content is very good and high quality
Thank you 🙏
But what do we know about what's before birth and what's after death to decide in the first place
We do know. If you're proposing something supernatural then u have a lot to demonstrate proof of.
Author / Book suggestion: EM Cioran. "The Trouble With Being Born"; "A Short History of Decay"; "The Fall into Existence"; "Drawn and Quartered". There are more. He was the first writer whose "pessimism" (as he is characterised) rang true to me.
@anthonydimichele837 Thanks for the recommendation! I’ve never heard of him before so this is potentially great material.
I really really REALLY hope your channel grows, your video are stupendous
Thanks so much for saying that! I have more videos on the way so I hope you enjoy them as well.
This video deserves much more views.
Thank you! 🙏
Thanks for this video. I never had kids. I broke the cycle of suffering. Unconsciously I have applied the same philosophy to my pets. All my animals were already in existence (older) when I got them. I could never buy a (young) puppy knowing that it was specifically brought into the world to be sold to someone. I wish more people had this insight, but I believe it requires a certain level of enlightenment.
This topic was well articulated in this video. Putting this content out helps us few not feel so alone. I’m for the most positive and animated person, so when I share these views with other people… they are quite shocked and try gas light me into think this world is amazing. It’s incredible what people will convince themselves to satisfy their egos.
@Mara_Natha That was a big goal of the video so I’m really glad you enjoyed it!
It's better to prevent pregnancy than to abort! Harming an innocent child is disgusting but there is nothing to harm if they don't exist. Preventing pregnancy is the answer.
You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bounce house sometimes is okay too .,
Nope. Nothing wrong with abortion.
@@youcef4593 Too bad your parents didn't think that.
@@sonicleavesi agree it's also too bad that parents conceived
@@sonicleavesa foetus can’t feel pain until around 28-30 weeks. I have more sympathy for the person that can.
More great videos
Thanks for watching!
@@thesolipsistcinema you’re welcome
love your channel man keep going!
@TAFROB29 thanks man!
The asymmetry argument doesn’t make any sense to me. I understand that the absence of pleasure is neutral because there is nobody being deprived of that pleasure. What I don’t understand is why the absence of pain isn’t neutral because there is nobody being kept from experiencing that pain.
I see your point. I think it’s because any pleasure that a life has, entails pain along with it. But the opposite isn’t true. So the avoidance of suffering should take precedence. Speaking about non existence beings, we have to talk about their imagined or potential state of being, whenever we talk about good or bad things happening to them. Because nothing can technically happen to them until they already exist. So the pain you bring into existence doesn’t even have to be associated solely in who it’s happening to for it to be considered bad. Like for example, there’s plenty of suffering overseas or even where I live that has no impact on my life whatsoever and that I don’t know about. So if I was able to snap my fingers and wish some pain out of existence, even though it has no impact on me, just the fact that that pain would be gone from the world, I think is a good thing. So whatever stance that minimizes or prevents the most unnecessary suffering, I think is the most moral.
@@thesolipsistcinema I still don’t understand. Sure, you could come up with some extreme hypothetical where there is a life with no pleasure, only pain, however that isn’t realistic. Essentially all life comes with both. And I think the reason limiting suffering overseas would be a good thing is because there are existent people being saved from that suffering. Even if you don’t know them, they still exist. If there were nobody to be saved from that pain, I think the lack of it would be neutral, just as the lack of pleasure for nonexistent people is neutral.
I think pain isn’t neutral in the same way because by having a lack of pain, you are saving someone from suffering. But by depriving ONLY pleasure, you aren’t doing as good a thing because the pleasure entails pain as well by default. So in a way by lacking pleasure you are lacking pain as well. So a lack of pleasure in non existent people is neutral because the imagined pain that would have to be inflicted on the person as well, would be bad.
I feel like maybe we’ll just be talking in circles but my personal view is a bit difficult for me to verbalize.
@@thesolipsistcinema Yeah I understand it’s complicated and hard to put into words. I still think I disagree with you but I have to learn more about the topic.
I hope you do, I’m happy it sparked some thought on the topic. And I appreciate the pushback too because it’s important to not get too comfortable in one way of thinking without re-examining it.
Also if you are so interested in children ,adopt there are many who need your love and care , also they will be much grateful then your own kids.
Other option is to get your self a dog ,a bird or a snake .. I don't care just don't make more humans.
I strongly believe in Antinatalism as bringing children here in this meaningless world for no reason or for the sake of your old age is so cheap idea. This world is so cruel especially if you're poor. If you can't even fulfill your dreams, can't become happy, can't get good job, can't manage your relationship and responsibilities then how come you think of having children? Are you fully satisfied with your life? Don't you have any problems in your life? Don't you feel you're helpless and don't have proper resources? I remember, if you bring children here and whatever they face is only because of you. Poverty, Unemployment, Crimes, Addictions, Breakup, Dipression and thousands of problems.......
I decided to end my life before 50 and not to get married and have children. I understand this meaningless life very well. Rather than getting married and get into endless family problems, why not to pursue your dreams and get your soul contented.
It's my notion, my philosophy. Everyone's free to do whatever they want to do.
Your closing points described me to the T. But while I would rather spare innocent people the pain that comes with existing, I'm not convinced antinatalism is the moral high ground or that everyone should adopt that philosophy. Life can be so beautiful, and while I personal have no taste for it, and there are millions who do and billions more who will.
Life is ok but I hear so many stories of crimes.- violations of human rights.. murder.. everyone is like.. omg that is on TV.. could never be me.. right, till it gets you too…
@@Yayo-cy7fkThe presence of good things doesn't erase the presence of bad things, the bad things are still going to happen, no matter if you see them or not
I think that licensing parenthood is a good and morally necessary idea. An alternative might be to require a deposit to be made for each child born sufficient to cover (as an average/insurance policy) education, healthcare and subsistence for its entire life. If people bring a fetus to term without paying this, they are locked in prison with an absolute block on conjugal rights, their property is confiscated and sold, and they are required to work until the costs of said insurance for the person's life plus the cost of prison is fully paid (likely to be life). My preferred alternative would be to decriminalise fratricide and matricide for people born after a specific date. To accompany this, all legal defence/mitigation for infanticide, which should carry the death penalty, should be removed.
A lot of good ideas. They would have worked wonders decades ago but unfortunately climate change is now irreversible
God damn you people are insane lol
@@krall5995 sentencing an innocent being(s) to decades of slavery, suffering, diseases,, exploitation and a horrible death is BEYOND insane, selfish, narcissistic, irrational, degenerate, criminal, evil, hateful.
@@incorectulpolitic As I said, you're insane. Get over yourself.
@@incorectulpoliticYou are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bouncy castle sometimes is okay too
Thank you for making a video about antinatalism that doesn't reduce the idea to edgy suicidal ideation or saying how it's morally wrong because of tautological reasoning.
Great video! I have a question though: Is there an interview or quote from LeGuin that say her short story is about antinatalism? I see it often called an antinatalist story and I understand the interpretation, but I have always been curious if it was LeGuin's intention? Thanks!
@thetrickstercoyote Thanks! I haven’t seen any interviews of any kind from Le Guin, so I’m not sure what her intentions were. It could be antinatalism related, or it could just be a thought provoking sci fi narrative that she thought of.
I also haven’t really seen the story brought up in any other contexts besides cool sci fi stories. I think I heard about it from The Very Bad Wizards podcast, but I’m not sure.
I do think it has clear antinatalism connotations, but I think you could also view it in the context of debating utilitarian vs deontological ethics. It really is a fascinating story!
Congratulations for the excellent work.
My main issue with life is not suffering, but the prospect of living for decades.
If we lived like a cat or dog for example it would be fine. If life was an experience of 15-20 years, the madness would still exist, but be more beareble.
Of course there is joy and light in life. There are true moments of bliss and happiness. They tend to be rare and really ephemeral. Maybe it's just me but pain seems to last much longer in our minds.
There is no intrinsic meaning in life. Each one of us must create it. There are so many traps in this world. It's possible to win, and victory comes for those who endure. But so many lives are lost in the way.
We live in a low vibrational world. Matter is a primitive state. The good things in life tend to come from the metaphysical aspects. Peace of mind, joy, determination, courage and all of the virtues don't exist in the physical world. If they did people would be selling them for sure.
This gives the impression that exist other spheres of existence, and other higher viabration realms. Religions and philosophies talk about these all the time.
This life here is transitory. Nothing is made to last here. Everything dies. Everything must die here.
Be the last of your lineage. It's the noble thing to do spiritually.
No.
Life is harmful and unsafe.
It's best not to continue it.
@@KyleEvra There is light here and there. To see it we must endure, going through the challenges in life. It does get better, but takes time. Seek help if necessary. There are so many things to live. So many beautiful things in the world. But we must be humble to withstand the hard times to live all these. You will get better!
Like I said best not to continue it.
@@JohanesTarata If people had to put an insurance policy on "It gets better" how many would have to pay out?
I'm not having kids. Maybe in the next life. Definitely not this life. Even though I grew up wanting kids one day, I think my life circumstances won't allow it. I'm okay with dedicating my life to charity and bettering the world.
hi dear soul
i agree wit u
lets b frends
My mother believes i chose to exist and that i chose my parents.. i had a similar belief i was never totally sure.. but i know it means she can shirk responsibility with her spiritual ideologies
6:01 What show/movie does the woman taking off her wig belong to?
@sanimanjara that’s from Watchmen. The same film with the blue guy on the thumbnail. It’s an incredible film.
@@thesolipsistcinema Thx!
You're right about everything but of course there will be a long, hard backlash against anti-natalism, as there is with any change. It's probably not realistic to expect everyone to stop procreating, but bringing up the subject and arguments for anti-natalism is making people think more responsibly about child birth. And considering how to fix humanity's problems.
Backlashing are people lacking Empathy.
💔
I often joke "Stop being antinatalist, the people at the top of the pyramid scheme need you to make babies."
@@KyleEvra Reducing the population will cause societal collapse, which will cause misery, poverty, massacres, etc. Anti-natalists are nothing more that sociopathic narcissists.
🎉❤
And you know the crazy part is? Antinatalism actually has its roots possibly stemmed from ancient times. It was just so insanely unpopular that only a very few individuals within the cycle knew about it. Now since we have internet (meaning far easier ways to access information and knowledge), this philosophy finally has a chance to enjoy proper exposure.
Amazing... unfortunately cant share it with anyone close as it will scare them away... but this really has to be thought of even if its hsrd to accept or even contemplate
Yeah it can definitely rub people the wrong way just hearing about the topic but I think at least knowing and understanding it is very important.
I don't buy the asymmetry argument, or even the basic presuppositions of antinatalism. If "lack of pleasure" is "not bad" because the hypothetical person in question doesn't exist, it seems to me that "lack of pain" is "not good" for the same reason. If there is no entity to "lack pain," then there is no good coming from that nonexistent entity "lacking pain." Or if pain isn't bound to any individual entity, so that "lacking pain" is "good" on some kind of impersonal, metaphysical level, then there is no reason that pleasure shouldn't be just as unbound; and therefore lack of pleasure WOULD be "bad" regardless of whether there are any entities existing to lack it.
And in any case, nobody is asked whether they want to exist because, prior to their existing, there is no entity to ask. You are not brought into existence against your will, there was no will at all prior to your existing.
I see your point on the asymmetry argument. When talking about potential lives you have to take into account what they would experience if being brought into existence because yeah in their imagined current state they can’t feel anything. But I also think the lack of pain that non existence has isn’t only good because a potential life wouldn’t feel pain, but because there would simply be less of it in the world. You can’t say this about pleasure because you can have pain without pleasure but you cannot have pleasure without some pain. So I don’t think pleasure can be put into in this “unbound or metaphysical level” way the same. Even in moments of pure pleasure where pain at least is temporarily unfelt, it still took pain to get there. But there are plenty of scenarios where someone can arrive at pain without any previous pleasure. I also don’t think pleasure lasts as long as pain can so I think pain is the more powerful feeling and should take priority to be avoided first.
As for asking to exist: that’s the point, that it’s a paradox. In forcing someone to exist, they aren’t doing something to their previous imagined state, but they are creating a new one. And in this new state of existence, you can still say that you didn’t choose to be born but of course it would have been impossible to communicate this. So it’s a paradox that really does seem to just talk in circles. I think at the very least you can say you wish you weren’t born. Or if magically you were brought into existence to simply see what life would bring, you would have chosen to not exist again rather than being brought into the world and feeling pain before you could choose for yourself to not exist. Even in this scenario you still would be brought into temporary existence without you giving consent so again even in this scenario it’s a paradox. So I think you’re right that you can’t quite say you were born against your will, but it’s about the immediate consequence that existence brings. It’s not saying I wish someone would have asked me first, because that’s impossible. It’s more just wishing something that isn’t possible, to be possible.
@@thesolipsistcinema _"But I also think the lack of pain that non existence has isn’t only good because a potential life wouldn’t feel pain, but because there would simply be less of it in the world. You can’t say this about pleasure because you can have pain without pleasure but you cannot have pleasure without some pain."_
Ok, I can see a little better where it's coming from then. It seems like the idea does kind of lean on a conception of pain and pleasure as things that extend beyond just the individual experiences of living creatures, into some kind of cosmic tally sheet. I guess I don't have any problem with seeing it that way, but I do wonder if it's _necessary_ for all pleasure to coexist with some pain, but not the opposite. I can think of a million excruciatingly painful (mental/emotional/physical) things for a life to experience, but as awful as they are, I don't know if I could guarantee that life wouldn't have some (small, fleeting) pleasure.
Although for obvious reasons, I understand especially why people who experience a lot more pain than pleasure might go in this philosophical direction. I wonder if hedonists are more likely to be people trying to maximize pleasure due to an excess of pain in their life, or more likely to be people who sincerely experience a surplus of pleasure and just want more of a good thing.
@billbadson7598 I also think of the pain and pleasure ratio in a way we can imagine suffering right now that does really exist. Much of people’s suffering in other countries, even in my own city, really have no personal effect on me. But given the ability, I would want there to be less pain in existence. Even though the addition or subtraction of it really doesn’t effect myself one way or the other. I just think it would be the moral thing to do.
When I said you can have pain without pleasure but not have pleasure without pain, this is definitely a momentary or short term truth I believe. I tried to explain extending the timeline further that in rare times when you seemingly have pleasure without any pain, it took pain to get to that point. But there are scenarios where you can be in pain with no pleasure accompanying it. So that’s why I think pain is the stronger feeling that should take priority to avoid.
I’ve heard contradicting and frankly confusing views on what hedonists believe and how they act in the world. On one hand you can view the pleasure they seek as them potentially just going nuts and being the most selfish beings you can imagine and doing what they want, when they want. But others view the life more strict like maybe deontological ethics. Where they follow strict codes to ultimately produce the most pleasure. Every time I hear the subject brought up I seem to get a different notion of what it is. So do you believe all or most antinatalists are hedonists as well? Would you consider yourself a hedonist and why or why not?
Thanks for discussing Arthur Schopenhauer!
The biggest (apparent) paradox is that this way of thinking emerges more frequently adopted in hedonistic, with low hardship, societies than in very though environments.
@HoradrimBR Yeah like suicide, it’s something that more privileged societies tend to take part in more than in places where just existing is much more difficult. I think the free time western civ has can cause you to think more about your ultimate purpose and become dissatisfied if you can’t find one. In more impoverished places, your purpose can be more apparent in your work because you’re working to help everyone around you survive and you can have a better sense of community that way.
It’s an interesting separation to notice and I think there’s several ways to provide more purpose and happiness in life, but I don’t think any of it makes antinatalism less valid.
@@thesolipsistcinema they lack the education and are too busy constantly struggling for their lives to ever deeply contemplate philosphy and the meaning of life in the first place.
S/o to all Antinatalist🔥
We need an austrian man with a beard to do it with everyone
Awesome 🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️
What movie is it at 12:15?
At 12:15 that clip with audio is from True Detective Season 1. It’s the same Matthew McConaughey character as I mentioned earlier, just a different time period in the show. On the off chance you meant the clip right before that with the kids smoking, that’s from Kids 1995.
@@thesolipsistcinema thank you!!
#StopHavingKids
I just recently found that RUclips channel after this video in my recommendations. It’s awesome to see the community growing.
@@thesolipsistcinema I've found them recently as well. Happy the movement is growing , i found them on twitter first then just last week started watching them on RUclips. I'm also subscribed to one of thr members youtube channels, "freeda animals"..They're very nice people . They definetly need to be more known tbh . Happy to find another subscriber 💪🏽🤞🏽
Several painful, debilitating, incurable chronic illnesses run in my family. I ended up with all of them. I struggled for a long time to accept my mother's decision to go ahead and have children knowing that was a likely outcome. But I came to the conclusion that reproductive freedom has to go both ways. If I believe in my right to not have children, with all the positive and negative consequences that come with that decision, then I think I have to believe in other people's right to make the opposite choice, despite the consequences of that. Anything less than reproductive freedom is eugenics, and we've all seen where that leads.
"Oh no eugenics will cause ww3"
Fantastic video and I agree with so much of it. There is truly no unselfish reason to have children - it's a selfish act, no matter how they end up in your care. If you're someone who wants to have kids, you have to acknowledge that, and you HAVE to know it's not a gift you're giving someone that they now owe you for. That being said, I do think some of the arguments around who "should" have kids can veer a little close to eugenics, so I don't think there's a perfect solution where only the people who will do the least damage to their children get to have them.
@emmballs8376 Thanks for watching! I agree with you as well and as for the part about who “should” be allowed to have children, I’ve gotten some pushback on me including that. I had to bring up the argument just to fully address the topic and I do try and show it isn’t an argument I fully endorse because of the breach of human rights it would require, but I could have done better with communicating that point I think.
Great film. Thanks so much!
Just curious but hit the like button if you're never having kids🤔
@jayflamin313 yeah I definitely won’t be having any children.
@@thesolipsistcinema 🔥
I've never had a desire. I have a nephew so that's good enough for me. I do understand why some people want to though. Their biological programming along with environmental factors, has given them that desire.