14:05 “whoever’s idea this was, I hope you get gout…twice” This is the first time I’ve ever heard someone curse someone else to get, specifically, gout
@@cuoresportivo155 I get the impression Eric doesn't understand these hose clamps, or is confusing them with the Oetiker clamps that are crimped on and one time use.
Such a great insult lol. Unless you know what it is, it's not offensive, and it's absolutely terrible to live with from what I've heard from one of my coworkers who had it.
I couldn't count how many multiair cars we have had towed in to our shop that quit running.... put some oil in em, crank em a bit... boom running and driving again. Best thing I can say for that design, it protects the engine from lack of oil, becuase it won't run without it😅
@@solderbuff If you look on Wikipedia, there are a lot of Stellantis vehicles produced after 2009 that use MultiAir, although the Fiat 500 is one of the few that doesn't pair it with a turbo.
75 year old, English codger here, Eric…….. I love watching your strip down videos……. Your humour and editing is superb…….. Thanks for the fun and education……..
These are shockingly very reliable engines if you just change the oil every 5-6k miles, do plugs at recommended intervals, and do the timing belt services.
Had a 2016 Chrysler 200 since 2019 and 69k Just got traded it in at 180k. Hadn’t touched the timing belt in the 110k I owned it. Just plugs and coils and oil changed every 4-6k
I had one of these engines for years in a Fiat 500 Pop. Amazingly easy to work on and care for with basic knowledge and tools. Oil changes every 5k, spark plugs every 30k, timing belt every 150k. A full set of plugs cost about $15. Bought the car for cash, drove up to 170k miles, then sold it for more then I bought it for to someone who's kid killed it within a week.
Great fun car and exceptionally reliable - when maintained. My 2013 Fiat 500 Sport had 60K when I bought it 6 1/2 years ago. Today it has 301,000 with the same engine, same transmission (same timing belt too). I drive 150-200 miles per day and tend to cruise at 75-95. I have been very blessed and also recognize this is indeed exceptional.
@@squidproquo2241 no Malibu is junk, you must be the only non-rental car agency that bought one of these rolling plies of crap. I see why GM quit making them.
1:06 As a point of trivia and comparison, the 170-cubic-inch (2.8-liter) inline six-cylinder engine in the 1963 Ford Falcon also made 101 horsepower. :)
It's based on the Fiat FIRE engine from the 80's. Or it IS a FIRE engine. Super reliable. The T-Jet variant of this engine was the peak of it's development cycle IMO. The MultiAir unit is the only problem you have to watch out with these as it is a specialist part and job.
the only new part on this engine is the multiair sub head. the 2 parted head system was developed in 1997 on the fire 16v and the block is still the same as the first 80's lumps. very well made and robust as hell for a 1980's developed architecture. and the best thing is almost every part is interchangeable between them. I have one 1.4 16v fire working with 1.2 16v sporting cams and with 1.2 ecu and is working like it was meant to be like that.
My hypothesis: Owners thought that if you do enough oil changes, you do not need to do any other maintenance like plug replacement, timing belts, coolant (corrosion in the coolant system). As a result cyl. 1 dropped the spark plug core, fragments blew back in the inlet and made their way into cyl. 2 and even 3. The 40.000KM plug interval is for the cheap plugs, not for the platinum/iridium ones. Depending on the state of the rest of the car, I might have put new plugs in and tested how it would run and how much oil consumption it would have. If the piston rings weren't damaged and the valve seats survived it might be good enough to keep it going. 101HP naturally aspirated and port injected would not be too critical for the shape and surface of the combustion chamber so I wouldn't be too worried about engine knock. For the cost of four plugs and maybe 30 minutes of labor it would be something I'd take a gamble on.
I can wholeheartedly assure you they didn't put copper core plugs in it for cost cutting reasons. It's gonna run poorly with the wrong plugs in it, and don't be shocked when it inevitably fails. Plugs are cheap, and easy to replace, stop being lazy and install what the manufacturer calls for. You aren't smarter than the engineers despite what your ego might make you think.
One of my coworkers worked at Fiat/Alfa for 5 years. He told me some guys there just cut the intake bracket and 2K glue it back together to save time 😂
That engine is called "Fire" it's an engine introduced by Fiat in mid 80s, the name means "fully integrated robotized engine" and was the first engine by fiat that was fully built by robots. Here in Brazil it's an INSANELY popular engine that was sold in many configurations, 1.0 and 1.4L 8 valve NA being the most common, the multiair ones are rare though. A very fun version of this engine was sold here under the name T-jet, and was 1.4L 16 valve, turbo charged , producing around 150HP, no multiair system whatsoever. The engine block is cast iron and is basically unchanged in it's 40 years of existence. The timing belt is supposed to be replaced every 60.000km or 5 years, but you can cut that by half if driven under severe use. Mine is a Fiat Uno which I engine swapped from 1.0 to 1.4L 8v, tuned to around 95HP. It's weak but the car is like 800kg(1600 pounds), so it drives like a 2.0 NA hatch from mid 2000s. T-jet and Multiair are more problematic because they take an engine that was originally meant to output 55HP, and double and even triple that. But the NA non-multiair versions of this engine are literally bullet proof, they can run for 500.000+Km with basic maintenance! Sadly, due to environmental regulations Fiat was forced to stop production of the Fire engine early 2024. It's a shame, really robust and economic engine!
I motori che arrivavano dal Brasile negli anni 80 non erano FIRE. Quelli originali 999cc 45 cv arrivati fino a 250cv nelle 500abarth T-jet e 170 cv multiair, chiaro che non avevano le stesse componenti a parte il monoblocco che non è un problema
When I was a student a 100BHp engine was the sign of a high performance car ! These days however cars have become so fat and heavy that you need 200 to get them moving.
I have the turbo version of this engine in my Alfa Mito and they are excellent strong engines. The usual problem with Multiair heads is dirty oil, ie long drain intervals. There is a small micron screen filter on the Multiair oil intake, which screws into the head near the cam spocket. You did not pull that filter. But I suspect it's OK given the spark plug destroyed this engine. Sell that Mulitiair head but replace the Multiair filter before you sell it, or at least clean it with brake cleaner.
Man, I really do enjoy all of these teardowns. Even if I don't have a vested interest most of them, they still have vast educational value and are entertaining. It's a great channel to watch and to learn from. See you next time. Eric! God bless all that you do!
FIAT has been using those wretched hose clamps since at least the '90s. They're basically the same as CV boot clamps. I always replace them with standard screw-type clamps if I have to take the hose off, mostly because the FIAT clamps are intended to be one-time use and you need the special tool to install them. This car was probably on its second timing belt, judging by mileage and belt condition. It's rare for an engine to have a prescribed interval greater than about 8 years/100k miles, though apparently (according to the internet) Jeeps with 1.4T MultiAir engines specify 15 years/150k miles.
I don't know if the US service schedule is different but in the UK the spark plugs are changed annually. I like these engines, they are easy to work on and the hose clamps are easy to remove with the right tool which only costs £20. I changed the multi air unit on mine without the special tool, I think I was the first driveway mechanic to do it myself. There are videos of what a failed unit sounds like on my channel.
Americans attempt to perform regular maintenance on a car challenge (impossible). These cars have copper core plugs with a short service interval for a reason...
This is a nicely thought engine, minus some stupid things, like removing the whole intake manifold to do the valve cover gaskets. This engine is based on the 1.4 Fiat Turbo Jet (TJET) engine, which has a standard valvetrain and is turbocharged, and it puts out 105-160hp, depending on cars. It's a fantastic little engine, you can push out 3-400000 miles from it, and you can double the HP without working on internals. It's a good workhorse and it's deadly simple to maintain and work on
You aren't old enough to remember, but back in the leaded gas days I used to change plugs, points, and plug wires every 20K on my American cars, mostly GMs.
I have four Fiats ranging from late 80's to mid zero's. They all share the same base block, this engine is called the FIRE engine ("Fully Integrated Robotised Engine") and the one here is just one variant of it. All of the engines i have seen at scrappers have severely neglected maintenance especially after 10 years. Timing belts that have never been replaced, oil that has done service for a decade, spark plugs are never replaced. Despite all that they keep running.
The timing belt has a service interval of 150k, although it’s a good idea to do it before that mileage. The plugs are OEM copper core, so they require replace every 30k. Almost all major work requires a tear down of the front end of the car to do (the engine compartment is extremely tight). I was surprised you didn’t notice the harmonica balancer is wider than the block. The Fiat 500 is a small light weight car with a very short wheelbase and an extremely tight turning radius. They were an econobox, but not like average one (4 wheel disk brakes were standard along with sway bars and good tires). The engine was designed by a Ferrari engine designer a long time ago and uses forged rods and crank and will easily travel all day at 90 mph. I had one of the very first ones built for 6 years and had a ball with it and still miss it.
I had one as a rental for a business trip to some big city (Boston or Chicago, I forget). It was perfectly adequate with one huge plus...parking. That thing was so easy to park. Tiny car, tiny wheelbase, and fantastic low speed maneuverability. Awesome lil city car.
Thank you for finally doing the engine in my car!!! If I ever blow mine, you can have my turbo one!! You know a couple of my friends here in Kansas City, we will be in touch!
in America, that design was demanded by an accountant who's goal was to save 3.478 cents per unit........ and unfortunately the accountants will cannot be outsmarted under any circumstance.
It is worse on the Nissan/Renault HR16DE engine, you just got to remove the entire manifold to change spark plugs, not only that, also throttle body just for some friggin plugs.
every single time we saw one in our shop we choped that bit off, and its not just this engine that has that but all the fiat 1.2 and 1.4 16valve have them
@@lincer556 When I saw engine code I was pretty sure it's K4M like in ma renault, but then googled it. Can't tell what were they thinking. They had ready design with accessible plugs from previous gen. Recently I had to change intake orings on my two engines and I will say it's not the end of the world, but in my case throttle body is sandwiched between manifold and intake filter plus srwed in with two 10mm UNDER it. Mildly infuriating. Of course there was a dovel pin one the run while putting it back together.
Every time I watch your channel I'm reminded that I need to change my oil. This time I'm concerned about my spark plugs. I just put a set of NGK plugs in my Civic!
Thank you eric for granting us our wish for a multiair engine. Here's a liitle more info on the multiair engines: 1. Co-developed with the germans (schaeffer group) 2. Used in some ingenium engines from Jaguar-Land Rover 3. Servicing and oil changes must be frequent but most of all: ALWAYS USE THE OIL PRESCRIBED BY THE MANUFACTURER. I've seen a person come up to me and say that his engine failed because he put some cheapo oil in it. 4. Originally i think they used 5w-40 but later switched to 0w-30 oil (at least for the 900c two cylinder versions) 5. The 2-cylinder version (twinair) comes with tiny water pump with a metallic impeller. Not bad for such a small engine. BUT, the pump is hidden behind the timing chain. Good luck changing it. Overall they're great little engines, torquey on the turbo versions (if you're on boost...) and reliability improved significantly after 2015 AFAIK. But you need a VERY LIGHT foot to get the advertised fuel economy. Otherwise it fucking drinks fuel like it was thirsty in the desert. Looking forward for more content from Italian cars!
@@plymouth491 The N/A ones are great on fuel, the turbocharged ones not so much. The 900cc twin-air is well known for being thirsty and never getting close to the wildly optimistic claims that Fiat made for it.
@richardshepherd6108 you're correct. It has a chain. Confused it with FIRE engines which have a belt. Been driving many FIATs and have been quite happy with them.
Abarth owner here (2017)! People ask all the time "does it get good gas mileage?"...it could...but the moment I touch SPORT...it drinks like a hummer...not...joking..
Fun note at 5:10 with that weird intake manifold... Pre-2015 and most abarth's, its a metal bracket with 3 bolts you take out and just take off the metal bracket. My car didn't even come with the metal bracket that's supposed to be there.
it wouldn't have been an oil related failure because if there is not enough oil in it the multi air system goes first and throws an engine failure before the engine even have a chance of killing itself.
@@MeDicen_Rocha yup one of the cylinders stops functioning, if you restart it you can maybe get somewhere with 3 cylinders. oh yeah fun fact you can over rev the engine when it's cold and kill the multi air system because there is not enough oil pressure.
Good video, really interresting since i have almost the same engine ( some parts change cause it's on a fiat punto, with more room in the engine bay). It's a pretty good engine, from the FIRE series. For info, the timing belt interval is 5 years/ 120 000 km in EU, but i thinks it's different in USA, cause the spark plugs intervall is also different. I would like to add some information from a EU/French perspective: - From my experience,18000 miles ( 30000km) for spark plugs is not specially low, many other brand have this kind of interval. Sparks plugs are cheap for our standards ( 3-5 € for a unit, cheaper than an oil change on this engine ), so it's not a problem. - We are not doing the same kind of mileage in France in general ( around 6-15k miles a year). I thinks it's more in germany, but it's pretty low compared to USA - In France, we consider that the car is dead at 120 000 miles, which is the mileage of this engine. - The most common issue on this engine in EU is the multiair acuator. But in general, it's caused by a lack of maintenance on oil, because on the expensive car equip with this technology, no problem - lot of cheap car in France are still using timing belt here. But on this engine, i think it's the easiest one to do it, (i'm not a professionnal mechanic, and it's done in like 2-3 hours, and the most expensive tools i used is a jack stand). And personal point of view, i prefer the timing belt on this engine, which never fail, even when your late on change (Full throttle to the rev limiter on a 1 year overdue timing belt) , than the oily timing belt you can encounter on other engine, with castastrophic failure like the 1.2 puretech engine from PSA ( Peugeot, citroen, now in stellantis), or Timing chain failure on the BMW/ VW engine.
Re-gapping iridium plugs is said to be forbidden. "once the heat cycles have started, re-gaping will result in the bottom electrode breaking off in the cylinder."
Fun fact, those engines do not have as throttle plate like a conventional engine. That multiair actuator controls engine speed and power, the solenoid controls oil pressure to open and close the valves. It only fully opens the intake valves when the engine needs full power, other than that it can open the intake multiple times in one intake cycle, open the valves late and close them early, open early and close late, and that controls engine speed and idle and engine breaking, all without a throttle plate.
They DO have throttle plate, you can even see throttle body with electric motor in 4:45. The throttle is wide open most of the time, except phases of oil vapor/petrol vapor recovery, or engine cut-off.
@@sidneysanders5726 I own a car with (170hp) 1.4 mutiair engine.And I had it's throttle in my hands. And from the 1.4 Multiair description: "The throttle body or motorized throttle, with throttle control of motorized and sensors position, is used by the Node Engine Control Module with Magneti Marelli 8GMF MultiAir adjust the amount of air drawn into the engine in special conditions: *During recirculation of petrol vapor recovery *For the oil vapor recovery from blow-by *In phase cut-off throttle is still closed to facilitate the motor slowdown *In recovery strategy, in case of breakage of the components of the module MultiAir."
My wife had the Fiat Panda 100hp, with the 1.4 engine. Great little flying machine. I always wondered about the aluminium casting, it looks like expanded polystyrene with all the little balls stuck together, see 12:33 on the video.
You just know some account at Fiat Powertrain is watching this with a proud smile about his cost saving on the inlet manifold,and thinking "bellissimo".
100 horsepower? I learned to drive in a ‘57 Volkswagen. It had an entire 36 horsepower hooked up to a 4 speed stick shift transaxle. My dad had it up to 70 mph on the highway. It finally rusted out.
Yay! Finally a Fiat 500! I miss my Spyder Abarth so much. Again, it's cool to see how different manufacturers approach engineering a problem like the multi air. The 500 has been around for 75 years or more. Cool stuff Eric. Thanks.
When I was in high school my parents bought me a used Fiat 500 Sport USA spec. It had 22 HP instead of 18 and would do 80 according to the speedometer (I got it up to that on the way to Homosassa Springs on Fl 50). The entire width of the door was about one inch. It was a fun little car and I don't remember why we got rid of it.
My mother had one, at least till it got written off in an accident, where it was hit head on by another who was cutting a corner. Car written off, and a few injuries to my mother and her sister as well, but they were saved by the Fiat crumpling up in the impact. Mom did not drive for around 2 years afterwards, till she got a Renault 5 as replacement. That car ran a year on a tank of fuel, as it was driven 12km a week, and shopping we would walk to the supermarket 3 minutes away. Tool longer to drive and park instead of walk.
I think I got lucky with my 2012 Focus. This one, for an economy car, WAS maintained. I recently changed the valve-cover gasket and when I popped it off I got a good look at the cams, perfectly clean. had almost 100K miles and looked practically new.
First, yeah that bracket absolutely blows. On the turbo version its a separate piece that unbolts. It's stupid that the base/budget spec engine is the one with that stupid serviceability decision. Apart from multiair being pretty cool (and proving electrohydraulic valve control is viable in practice), its also neat how modular these engines are. The cam carrier can be swapped out with a euro DOHC cam carrier quite easily which makes it just like any other 4-cylinder that originated from the 80s.
Back when these were new in the states in 2012, I was enamored by them as I had a soft spot for Fiats since the early 70's when a priest we were friends with had a bright red Familiare, the wagon variant of the 128, then a fairly new modern FWD, overhead cam car with a transverse engine with a separate transaxle and a typical these days, McPherson Strut suspension. Originally introduced in 1969 and sold here in the US until at least 1978 and was replaced by the Strada that was sold here until 1980 if I recall. Anyway, drove the basic naturally aspirated 1.4 Sport version with the 5spd manual and it was very punchy for the horsepower. 100 horses and a curbweight of something like 2200 Lbs allowed it to be sprightly in performance. If I could have afforded one, I'd have snapped it up. I also got to drive the 500L as well, that one had the turbo and belted out 130HP to compensate for the larger/heavier vehicle. It was a blast too, though I would have lowered it a touch, added an strut stabilizer and a "go" pedal to tighten up the pedal response from a dead stop, but leave it stock otherwise. If I had to replace my Mazda Protege 5 wagon today, I'd look into either the 500L with manual, or the Renegade with the 1.4 and manual, hopefully it came in the trailhawk trim as it actually has true 4x4 drive line, and thus the most capable of the Renegades. Either way, these were viewed I think much like the old Yugo, as disposable cars and were treated as such. Word was, if kept maintained they did last, and yes, were largely based on the body of the 127 in hatchback form, but with the drive train of the 128, at least here in the US, which meant in the beginning, the base models had the 1.1L 4, the GVX for the sportier (?) 1.3, which only had a few horsepower over the 1.1. Yes, even then, the timing belt had to be changed at something like every 50K miles, or until they improved the belt so the intervals got longer between recommended changes, but so many drove them without proper maintenance so they got the reputation they had because of that mindset. I think these 500's, in the US anyway were likely thought much the same way. I'd still like to one, as long as the maintenance has been kept up.
It's interesting that the front suspension on these is basically a 1st generation VW Rabbit front suspension copy. With 21st century touches, of course (better materials).
I love your show dude. I am a tri tradesman from Australia. Fitter/machinist/boilermaker. Im not a car enthusiast and I refuse to work on engines, love watching other people work on them. I like your commentary, love your sarcasm. I get big kick out the comments people send in how you respond to them. I love how they pick your to pieces but don’t have the balls to make their own show and put themselves out there in front of the entire world to see. Fat heads that never get off the lounge would a good bet. Keep it up mate. Great stuff.
Note to Dorman. At 5:00 is the opportunity to sell a "repair kit" so the technician can CUT that terribly designed bracket to remove the valve cover, etc. Then use a Dorman bracket repair thingee to put it back together.
Volvo loves those clamps, too. They're called Oetiker clamps. They are annoying, but, in fairness, they do apply pressure more better and evenly, and they're generally actually easier to uninstall/install. Slide a screw driver in the tab and twist to take off, and the clamp tool just line up and squeeze to install; all done. Only downsides is if you forgot to put it on the hose before you attached it, unlike a worm gear one, you can't undo it completely, you have to pull the hose and slide it over, and that you have to have just the right size of them because it has to slide over the hose, and it can only tighten so much.
This isn't an Oetiker clamp, those are crimped to fit and one time use as they have to be cut off or at least mangled beyond re-use. This Fiat engine uses a Clic R clamp which are re-useable. Using a screwdriver to remove is unnecessary if you have the pliers as they are designed for both removal and installation; you simply turn the pliers around and use the appropriate jaws on each side of the latch, one way removes, the other installs.
@@wtyrrel They are better than worm drive clamps in that you can't over-tension them, and they are faster to remove and replace. Also easier to use than the constant tension spring clamps, though I suspect the constant tension type are probably the best for use on plastic cooling parts (which I hate with a vengeance).
I grew up in Europe, and am currently there after 25 years in the USA. My first car had a 45hp TU9 engine, on which I changed the spark plugs on a regular basis. I currently drive a car with the dreaded 82hp EB2 engine, which I'm about to bring in for a timing belt change at 60k miles. Learning from this channel, I'm getting both the spark plugs and the water pump changed along the way (the coils and the accessory belts will already be off anyway). The EB2 has significant problems with its wet timing belt, where there's apparently an issue where running the car in short urban trips gums up the rings, which lets a bit of gasoline into the oil, which then degrades the belt if you don't use the one oil that is expressly formulated for that application, and bits of belt then clog the oil pickup, the solenoids, etc... Replacement belts are supposed to last longer, and they recently re-engineered the engine to switch to a chain. Getting the engine hot and giving it a good italian tune-up every now and then still does some good to some engines, though at some point the rings just get stuck and the engine burns oil and needs to get replaced.
Electrode forged piston...🔨 Don't complain, on the Renault-Peugeot-Citroën PSA ES9J4 V6 you need to remove the intake manifold just to change the spark plugs on the rear cylinder bank.
@@TheMissing62Or just about any serpentine accessory on a front wheel drive. Drop the whole subframe just to replace a power steering pump, remove the right front wheel to change the alternator... I've never come across that particular phrase, but I'm assuming that you're referring to timing/cam drive belts, and at least what I have to work on all has good lifetime chains. Especially since some of those belts have intervals that overlap with my family's yearly mileage. Last year alone we put 50k miles on a Grand Marquis and over 10k miles on an Impala, plus I partook in the addition of several thousand miles to other people's vehicles while off at school.
@@Stephens_offroad_and Yes, I was referring to the timing/cam drive belts. Synchronic belt or "correa de distribución" for us. 120k Km. is the scheduled duration according to the manufacturer.
That plug was loose at some point, it overheated and the center of it came apart, all the carbon in that plug hole and the burned looking coil are clues. The 2v 5.4s can do this before launching plugs, I've also seen this on 3.5 J series V6s. The plug backs out, overheats, sometimes self destructs or comes completely out of the threads.
This was good to see. I have a 500 L with the turbo. 120K on the engine. It runs great, I'm religious about oil changes. Every 3K miles The engine purrs really. The transmission gives me worries. It's difficult to find information on it. It's kind of a hybrid. Really a manual with an automatic twin clutch. I hope you find the turbo version one day.
I don't own one or even want one but you have a good point, Everybody is too busy giggling about a tiny engine,but 100hp is excessive for a tiny car in Yurp.
@@PeterCrosland I wouldn't say it's excessive, it's a useful amount of power if you are using motorways/highways. For purely city use the much lower power 1.2L engine is fine.
@@ferrumignis Well it's not completely over the top but for a car that is under 12 feet long and weighs in at under a ton 0.9 and 1.2 litre will take it anywhere and FIAT know that Italy is very lumpy. The original 500 never got above 20bhp from the factory and they sold quite a few. Have you checked your average speed, last time I looked at mine it was 14mph, in London it is in single figures. 20bhp is fine.
When you think about it, the oil-pressure driven valves are a great protection against low oil levels ruining the engine, specially given these are quite infamous for burning oil at an alarming (but within manufacturer's spec) rate. The good old "oh it stalls when i stop or make a sharp turn" while the oil change light is on
cat diesels have an oil pressure driven injector pump, they are fail safe too. it's a good implementation. i reckon when the patents run out all engines will have the multiair system, since it saves using a cam and cam phasers.
Mine managed 135,000miles with me and never burnt a drop of oil. It always got rev'd out every journey, so perhaps they just need exercise to energise the oil control rings.
@sedixmrboss5625 what? They absolutely burn oil. Otherwise there wouldn't be a recall on them for oil consumption. Not to speak of the rather lax oil consumption figures Chrysler provides you with.
I had a 2013 Dart with the 1.4T. Those 30k spark plug intervals were annoying for the first few years, where the dealer was the only place to buy them at $40/plug. The OEM coils were terrible. After having to replace 3 of them, I swapped them all out for some Alfa Romeo 4C coils. Replacing the timing belt on it is interesting. Unfortunately, my Dart was totaled before I needed to do it. You need a specific toolkit to lock the cam and crank in place. Also on the turbo Dart, there's a plastic coolant tee connecting to the engine-off circulating pump that likes to break if you look at it wrong. I didn't want to wait for a replacement or get another plastic one that would break, so I built one out of some brass pipe fittings from Home Depot.
A tool that locks the cam and crank in place seems like a fantastic idea. It makes a timing job hard to mess up when you are required to lock the cam and crank, and they only lock in a single position that is correctly timed.
As long as she looks after it, it will be OK, but the labour intensive maintenance will be expensive, and that is why people dont look after them and they die prematurely. As a general rule dont buy Fiats (Stellantis).
Love the videos. Here’s a request, find some boat engines to tear down. Inboard, outboard, whatever. An idea to have something different on the channel.
THANK YOU ERIC! I have two cars with the turbo version of this engine, asked for a teardown if possible, and you came through! I just changed the spark plugs in both of our cars not long ago, pretty sure the turbo version has the 30K mile change interval while that base model engine has a 100K interval. Not expensive to change them but you need a thin-walled spark plug socket. FWIW old plugs looked fine, gap was pretty much near spec but changed them anyway. NGK/FIAT designed a plug specifically for the MultiAir engines but Denso, Bosch, and possibly a few others have developed compatible plugs since then. Before anybody badmouths FIAT for this design, the wife legit hits 50mpg in straight highway driving with her turbo 500 and she definitely does NOT hypermile her car. Great little engines...IF you take care of them properly.
My wife has a 2017 Jeep Renegade 4x4 6 speed manual with the 1.4L multiair turbo. Interesting engine it puts out 160hp and 180lbs of torque and it moves that vehicle surprisingly well.
The multiair works by using uncompressible oil with a compressed air spring. The multiair module must be kept upright so the oil doesn’t drain and alter the amount of air used for the spring.
So it looks to me like the roller running on the cam pushes a plunger full of oil. Then the computer determines how much and when that oil pushes open the valve.
There is no air spring, it uses conventional coil springs. If the multiair module gets drained (which can happen after a long period of the car being being started) then it can cause crank no start, and there is a specific bleeding sequence to fix this.
@@timothyball3144 Yes that's correct, the cam operates a plunger that pushes oil into a piston that pushes the valve open. There is a PCM controlled solenoid valve that bleeds oil out of the circuit, which makes the valve close. It may seem complex but for a system that gives so much control over valve lift, timing and duration it's relatively simple, a genius bit of design IMO.
@@ferrumignis The coil spring is used to close the intake valve like any other valve. The spring with the cam returns the pump plunger back to the starting position and prevents float. Hydraulic oil pressure is used to open the intake valve. It gets the energy to do this from the compressed air. The piston that follow the cam drives oil into the chamber with the air resulting in stored energy. Fast acting solenoids.release this pressure to the plunger sitting on top of the intake valve which then opens the valve.
Been looking forward to seeing one of these. Fun to watch. Fiat always has built a stout bottom end for their engines. Glad to see they continued that with the MultiAir units.
So....The way this engine works, the intake cam pushes on a lifter, but the amount of lift is determined by the oil pressure. No oil pressure is no lift, which means there is air flow. Thus there is no need for a throttle plate on this engine. Very clever! This system reduces pumping losses, but it cannot be more than 1-2% more efficient for all this extra complication over a true DOHC system.
Reminds me of why the infamous 1.2 Puretech (or 1.2 Purecrap) has the wet timing belt, since it reduces the friction losses on the timing system on the order of 20-30%. Funny thing is, that only equates to around 1-3% better efficiency overall. Don't know if the engine made across the Atlantic tho, but if it did, advice would be to just don't. Which is too bad tho. Thing actually is quite a perky engine and doesn't usually have any other outstanding issues beyond the ones related to the oil pickup being clogged up by pieces of belt
@@ferrumignis considering the engine in question, it's more of an emission tax bracket thing. We're talking about a 1.2 petrol DI engine that does 4-5L/100km already. These things sip fuel. Being just a tiny bit less efficient at this level means it's barely noticeable, if at all.
@@GrimpakTheMook It's huge, especially in Europe. Since 2009 manufacturers have had an average (i.e across all cars produced) CO2 emission limits that effectively get fined for exceeding, a cost passed straight onto consumers. When you are selling millions of small cars, even minor improvements can significantly affect the average.
As the owner of a vehicle with this type of engine but turbocharged since 2011 and working on these vehicles, I can also provide some feedback: - Here in Europe, it was first announced by the manufacturer that the service had to be carried out every 30,000km or 2 years. This was later lowered to 15,000km or 1 year. - Spark plugs are not the same as turbo engines. Here they have to be replaced every 30,000km. We've hardly ever had a problem with spark plugs, except on engines that have been modified to increase their performance. - The timing kit + water pump really isn't that expensive compared to other cars with engines in the same range, and is extremely easy to replace. A qualified mechanic can do it without any problem. I did it on my car in 2 hours. - The recommended replacement under normal use is 120,000 km or 5 years, but we've already seen 10-year-old vehicles with the original belt without any problems. - As already mentioned, there's a small filter for the multiair that needs to be cleaned not necessarily at every service but periodically. - For turbocharged engines, the oil inlet screw of turbo is fitted with a small filter, which must also be cleaned or replaced periodically. - Only use recognized quality 5W40 sport type or 0W30 motor oil, nothing else and no cheap oil. To conclude, in 200,000km I've only had relatively minor problems. As I mainly make short trips in a cold climate, one cylinder became ovalized and the engine started to consume oil. When I dismantled this cylinder for repair, I found that all the internal parts of the engine were fine and very little worn. Carry out the services at the intervals recommended by the manufacturer, and a little earlier if you're only doing short trips, and you shouldn't have any engine problems :-) Greetings from Europe, and I hope this will be of help to former and future owners alike.
So the reason things are designed the way that intake support is is simple. A fellow do it your selfer told me this and it makes perfectly good sense. Many years ago, a mechanic had an affair with an engineer's / designer's wife, girlfriend whatever and the way the engineer / designer decided to get back at every mechanic was to make a simple thing really difficult or dumb for every mechanic thereafter.
An friend of mine was the service manager of a Fiat dealership in the early years of the 500 model. He related to me the details of a recall of all early 500 models. It seems that the rear main seals in those models were undersize, leading to serious oil leaks. To r&r the seal, the whole front mask, radiator, lights, and etc had to be removed. Then the half shafts had to be disconnected from the spindles, and the engine/trans unit had to be dropped out of the bottom of the engine compartment. Unlike most modern engines, the rear main seal was not accessible with the bellhousing in place, so the trans had to be split from the engine. The main bearing caps had to be partially removed and the crankshaft dropped down to access the seal. Replacement was a reverse of the removal. Fiat was only paying 4 HOURS OF LABOR at a discounted rate for this very time consuming repair. His BEST technicians could do the full repair in 7 to 8 hours of clock time. He bemoaned that he was losing a high percentage of his best techs, who for some reason didn't like getting paid for HALF the actual hours spent. There is ample reason that FIAT owners said that the name stood for Fix It Again Tony. BILL
I had an old van with a Ford 300 in it. One of the copper electrodes dropped out of the spark plug. The cylinder walls and piston looked fine when I had the head off.
I have the “normal” valve versions of this engine 1.2 8V 60bho 1.4 16V 100HP and 1.3 16V diesel 70bhp. Cam cover gasket leaks are a zero problem. Head gaskets fail because people don’t bother to check for coolant leaks. Any overheating in any small engine will blow the HG. Early diesels break the cam chains. Thanks to GM for demanding a chain instead of proven cam belts. Later models (75bho) are better.
I had a 2011 Pop ... it was solid for 5 years that I owned it. Mine had the 5-speed and Stellantis cheaped out on the pressure plates for the US models. Mine failed at 11k miles, they took care of it before a general recall was ordered for it - which they replaced a second time at 17k. If memory serves, they ended up using the Abarth clutch setup as a "fix." Other than that, mine ran perfect. As you mentioned, oil-pressure runs these, so being on top of that was paramount to longevity. I once drove a little more than 1100 miles round trip in 22 hours in it from Texas to Oklahoma with zero hiccups, aside from 70 pounds of ice that formed on the nose heading into an arctic front, and Oklahoma's washboard toll-roads breaking my back. That said, it was very practical - and let me save enough money to buy something much nicer (and larger) afterwards. 31.5mpg combined, but it did fall a little on its face on the highway with a 5-speed manual to the tune of lower-mid 20's in mpg around 70-80. These were absolutely built down to a price - that was the point of them though. Rubber seals around the windows and grommets were pretty hopeless, and the shifter boot retention ring broke twice on me. I think other than that, I replaced 1 window regulator which was pretty easy to do too.
Re: the intake bracket bolt... Remember, zero auto makers make anything to actually repair, they're made to ship out the door and last as long as the warranty, and that's it. They care not if someone later has to do maintenance beyond oil changes and such. Annoying they don't think of that, but there it is.
Do they not take warranty repair costs in to account? If a stupid design like this changes a .5hr repair in to a 1.5hr repair, and adds a new gasket to the bill, the manufacturer ends up worse off than if they'd just did what Eric said, and added a bracket. You can guarantee that the cost of the bracket would be added to the vehicle cost anyway...
@@longrange1977because the guy above is talking out his ass. More often than not its costs and multi-chassis use related. Seeing something on a stand vs all the install options limits your ability to make a decent conclusion
@@longrange1977 No, they actually don't. What they do is ship a few thousand. If one out of every thousand breaks, they have made enough to not worry about engineering for the warranty work. That is a small battle in the war of manufacturing. Then it finally gets out of warranty, they won the war. That's how it's done. Warranties exist solely to placate the feelings of the purchaser, a feature that if the vehicle is engineered correctly and all things involved were perfect, would actually never be used. But 10% rule. Stuff happens. They're prepared for it in the budget. The ONLY way this stupid bracket would be revised in the way Eric asks is if indeed there was a STUPID rash of warranty work. Way over the 10% (arbitrary number here, mind) of warranty expected. A running change will be needed, but the OLD ones, will not be changed out. Also the engine is designed fairly separately from the car. Which is where the dumb oil filter/plug vs the car chassis interference things happen. As but one example of such. This is the Way of Car Manufacturing. Ship it, deal with the small warranty work, overall winning.
@@Gapines23 I am not. They don't give one damn about working on the car. Worked in the industry. They make thousands, millions of these things, the few percentage of them that come back for warranty are not enough to make changes, or IT WOULD BE DONE. It lasts the warranty, and there they go, they won. Your problem now.
@@longrange1977 Not many things likely to need repair before the warranty runs out that would require removing the head. And most of the few there are would not be repairs but a full engine replacement. So the manufacturer doesn't care because it's not something they or their dealers ever have to work on unless the customer is paying for it. Plus it's a cheap car so tell the customer the repair is going to be expensive, they are more likely to just buy a new car. Probably exactly what happened here.
The fact that the pistons hitting and crushing the spark plugs was a known issue makes me wonder if the factory plugs stretch on that engine, I read one forum that said (when changing the plugs to add a spark plug washer) to reduce how deep it penetrates into the cylinder.
That built in bracket on the intake manifold to the valve cover is 90% of the reason I hated working on European cars. They are full of crap like that. It's so common that it feels intentional. I remember when the multi air engines were announced and they said that the intake valves would be hydroelectrically activated, I thought it was a freaking cool idea...that was never going to work in a mass-produced car, let alone a cheap appliance like these engines are all installed in. No freaking way that something that obviously delicate would ever last in a cheap toaster of a car.
Fords are built the same way. Want to change the blower motor on the firewall? Start up by the grille because you can't remove the blower motor without removing the ABS pump, but you can't remove the ABS pump without removing the coolant and washer fluid combo tank, but you can't remove the coolant/washer fluid combo tank without removing the battery, but you can't remove the battery without removing the entire airbox, which is right up front next to the radiator. Everything has 1 or 2 bolts that cannot be physically accessed in any way, shape, or form without fully disconnecting all its lines/hoses/wires and also removing something else first. And every goddamned bolt has a different size head on it.
@@PlatypusVomit The Car Care Nut was replacing a road-hazard damaged A/C condenser on a late model RAV4. He explained how he had to run up hours charged the customer by removing all of the front trim to gain access. Such ankle-bone-is-connected-to-the-knee-bone access procedures is apparently not limited to Ford. Or Fiat.
The multiair system allows for complete control of the intake valve. It is so flexible, that throttle valve is only used for idle. Above idle, the multiair system uses the valves to regulate the amount of air into the engine.
@@Zoomie61 But it came on an econo-box. The reason they're worth money to salvage is they go bad. It's overly complex and like other things he talks about (plugs, how soon?), not well suited to an econo-car. A single central can and forked rockers (keeping the 4valve head) would be simple, and reliable.
@@unclejoe6811 somebody asked an old Honda engineer what he thought of the Toyota Prius - he didn't see the big deal, "We were getting over 50 MPG in the 1980's with a carburetor."
I own a giulietta 1.4 multiair turbocharged from 2010. It's a good engine as long as you dont miss a beat on the maintenance intervals. The multiair can get clogged up with dirt if you skip oil changes. Havent had to changed it out yet.
Spark plug seals often leak on these. One interesting aspect is that the mass airflow sensor is in the manifold, rather than on the airbox, so you can replace the giant airbox with a little K&N-type filter.
The trick to getting a fresh Multi Air engine to build compression to start up and run is to have a replacement starter on the bench for when all the smoke leaks out of the first one. Unless you've got a stick shift and a tow rope and can tow it in gear a few miles.
I don't understand why an econobox like a Fiat 500 would need spark plugs every 15-30k, my last three cars have 100k intervals on spark plugs and none of them have ever had this sort of an issue. Did Fiat cheap out so much on these that even the spark plugs are crap?
Just did a sparkplug and coil change on exactly this engine on one of my kids' car. Cheap and relatively quick maintenance item that I am hoping will save money and headaches down the road. Change oil frequently (don't follow the ridiculous 10,000 mile recommendation but stick with 3-4K miles), and top off oil as soon as it gets a little low. Same with coolant. Basic things that can go a long way.
C'mon Eric, I thought you would honor the opening of the Olympics with an "Olympic Waterpump Toss". Next time wear your pizzaria chefs hat when working on a Fiat.
FWIW, I was part of a stock car race team in the mid-70s. We ran small block Chevy engines. In a race at College Station, TX, we were running about 3rd when the engine note changed. Had lost a cylinder. Thought possibly a valve spring. After getting back to the shop and tearing down the engine we found that an exhaust valve had chipped out a small pie shaped piece. This piece bounced back and forth between the original cylinder and its mate on the other bank. Both pistons looked like someone had attacked them with tack hammers. The valves in both cylinders showed slight damage as did the head. But the engine did not blow up. Probably turning somewhere around 8K rpm when it happened. But I have never seen a spark plug lose the center electrode/porcelain and the strap. I think the electrode/porcelain failed first and then wiped out the strap.
8K rpm's out of a Chevy small block? I knew a guy who raced an AMX with 302 Chevy small blocks but he had maybe twenty blown engines stacked up around his shop .Meanwhile, a Javelin with an AMC 304 was beating him.
That intake reminds me of the Vortec 2800 where you have to pull the intake to get to the valve cover, where just moving the throttle body over a bit would have fixed it.
14:05 “whoever’s idea this was, I hope you get gout…twice”
This is the first time I’ve ever heard someone curse someone else to get, specifically, gout
thing is those clamps are easy to open and reuseable.... I've never replaced one of them
@@cuoresportivo155 I get the impression Eric doesn't understand these hose clamps, or is confusing them with the Oetiker clamps that are crimped on and one time use.
Twice!
Such a great insult lol. Unless you know what it is, it's not offensive, and it's absolutely terrible to live with from what I've heard from one of my coworkers who had it.
They are ClicR clamps you need a special plier to remove and refit.
I couldn't count how many multiair cars we have had towed in to our shop that quit running.... put some oil in em, crank em a bit... boom running and driving again.
Best thing I can say for that design, it protects the engine from lack of oil, becuase it won't run without it😅
Are there any other multiair cars apart from Fiat 500?
@@solderbuff dodge dart, ram van.....
@solderbuff yeah, in the US it's almost exclusively Chrysler, dodge, and ram products. They were bought by fiat Lancia years ago
@@solderbuff If you look on Wikipedia, there are a lot of Stellantis vehicles produced after 2009 that use MultiAir, although the Fiat 500 is one of the few that doesn't pair it with a turbo.
A smart idea. Maybe it should warn the driver that it needs oil if it does that though lol
75 year old, English codger here, Eric…….. I love watching your strip down videos……. Your humour and editing is superb…….. Thanks for the fun and education……..
These are shockingly very reliable engines if you just change the oil every 5-6k miles, do plugs at recommended intervals,
and do the timing belt services.
i do mine yearly around 9k miles
spark plugs 18k
timing belt plus water pump around 56k
@@sangerzonnvolt6712 The timing belt interval is 150k in the US. These are very hard on spark plugs though.
@@sarahdell4042 the 56k miles or 90k km-s is written in the European user manual.
You're asking people to maintain their vehicles though
Had a 2016 Chrysler 200 since 2019 and 69k Just got traded it in at 180k. Hadn’t touched the timing belt in the 110k I owned it. Just plugs and coils and oil changed every 4-6k
I had one of these engines for years in a Fiat 500 Pop. Amazingly easy to work on and care for with basic knowledge and tools. Oil changes every 5k, spark plugs every 30k, timing belt every 150k. A full set of plugs cost about $15. Bought the car for cash, drove up to 170k miles, then sold it for more then I bought it for to someone who's kid killed it within a week.
Great fun car and exceptionally reliable - when maintained. My 2013 Fiat 500 Sport had 60K when I bought it 6 1/2 years ago. Today it has 301,000 with the same engine, same transmission (same timing belt too). I drive 150-200 miles per day and tend to cruise at 75-95. I have been very blessed and also recognize this is indeed exceptional.
LOL! My Malibu was better than this Eurojunk. After all, it was real car, not a kids toy.
@@squidproquo2241 no Malibu is junk, you must be the only non-rental car agency that bought one of these rolling plies of crap. I see why GM quit making them.
@@TheDumpbin The only sedan GM is making right now is the Malibu. 🤣
@@squidproquo2241 fleet sales they sell 5 a year to public
1:06 As a point of trivia and comparison, the 170-cubic-inch (2.8-liter) inline six-cylinder engine in the 1963 Ford Falcon also made 101 horsepower. :)
For a cheap engine, I was impressed by how, minus the hose, well it looked, and no Funny parts! Not Fiat fan, but still impressed.
Yeah, this engine looks neat! I almost want to own one of these.
That clamp on the hose is a Clic-R clamp. Fast and easy to install/remove, reusable, but requires (about $10) Clic-R pliers.
It's based on the Fiat FIRE engine from the 80's. Or it IS a FIRE engine. Super reliable. The T-Jet variant of this engine was the peak of it's development cycle IMO. The MultiAir unit is the only problem you have to watch out with these as it is a specialist part and job.
FIAT makes (used to, maybe. Not certain about the recent years) excellent engines, in general mechanically FIAT cars are rock solid.)
the only new part on this engine is the multiair sub head. the 2 parted head system was developed in 1997 on the fire 16v and the block is still the same as the first 80's lumps. very well made and robust as hell for a 1980's developed architecture. and the best thing is almost every part is interchangeable between them. I have one 1.4 16v fire working with 1.2 16v sporting cams and with 1.2 ecu and is working like it was meant to be like that.
As a retired mechanic, I always enjoy watching your engine autopsies.
Next week is a 5HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine. Can't wait!
Come on, it's a neat piece of engineering.
That would be a cooler engine than the 1.4
No, Mitsu 3 cylinder is next down. lol
Geo metro 3 cylinder
😂
Oh hell yeah! Thank you for listening! Keep looking for the 1.4T version!
I have the 1.4 T engine in my ALFA brilliant bit of kit
You could've hurt yourself trying to turn this engine over. I really appreciate you putting yourself at risk like that for our entertainment.
I'm impressed he got the coils with it. Mine came without them. Would have liked a spare set at $70 each.
My hypothesis: Owners thought that if you do enough oil changes, you do not need to do any other maintenance like plug replacement, timing belts, coolant (corrosion in the coolant system). As a result cyl. 1 dropped the spark plug core, fragments blew back in the inlet and made their way into cyl. 2 and even 3.
The 40.000KM plug interval is for the cheap plugs, not for the platinum/iridium ones.
Depending on the state of the rest of the car, I might have put new plugs in and tested how it would run and how much oil consumption it would have. If the piston rings weren't damaged and the valve seats survived it might be good enough to keep it going. 101HP naturally aspirated and port injected would not be too critical for the shape and surface of the combustion chamber so I wouldn't be too worried about engine knock. For the cost of four plugs and maybe 30 minutes of labor it would be something I'd take a gamble on.
I can wholeheartedly assure you they didn't put copper core plugs in it for cost cutting reasons. It's gonna run poorly with the wrong plugs in it, and don't be shocked when it inevitably fails.
Plugs are cheap, and easy to replace, stop being lazy and install what the manufacturer calls for. You aren't smarter than the engineers despite what your ego might make you think.
@@MeDicen_Rocha actually, it will run fine with almost any type of plugs. Welcome to Fiat FIRE.
One of my coworkers worked at Fiat/Alfa for 5 years. He told me some guys there just cut the intake bracket and 2K glue it back together to save time 😂
Seen that happen. In Germany 😅
Any fly by nite wrencher has done that glue gasket together at least once...especially a private shop trying to come in under quote.😅
That engine is called "Fire" it's an engine introduced by Fiat in mid 80s, the name means "fully integrated robotized engine" and was the first engine by fiat that was fully built by robots.
Here in Brazil it's an INSANELY popular engine that was sold in many configurations, 1.0 and 1.4L 8 valve NA being the most common, the multiair ones are rare though.
A very fun version of this engine was sold here under the name T-jet, and was 1.4L 16 valve, turbo charged , producing around 150HP, no multiair system whatsoever.
The engine block is cast iron and is basically unchanged in it's 40 years of existence.
The timing belt is supposed to be replaced every 60.000km or 5 years, but you can cut that by half if driven under severe use.
Mine is a Fiat Uno which I engine swapped from 1.0 to 1.4L 8v, tuned to around 95HP.
It's weak but the car is like 800kg(1600 pounds), so it drives like a 2.0 NA hatch from mid 2000s.
T-jet and Multiair are more problematic because they take an engine that was originally meant to output 55HP, and double and even triple that.
But the NA non-multiair versions of this engine are literally bullet proof, they can run for 500.000+Km with basic maintenance!
Sadly, due to environmental regulations Fiat was forced to stop production of the Fire engine early 2024.
It's a shame, really robust and economic engine!
I motori che arrivavano dal Brasile negli anni 80 non erano FIRE. Quelli originali 999cc 45 cv arrivati fino a 250cv nelle 500abarth T-jet e 170 cv multiair, chiaro che non avevano le stesse componenti a parte il monoblocco che non è un problema
When I was a student a 100BHp engine was the sign of a high performance car ! These days however cars have become so fat and heavy that you need 200 to get them moving.
I have the turbo version of this engine in my Alfa Mito and they are excellent strong engines. The usual problem with Multiair heads is dirty oil, ie long drain intervals. There is a small micron screen filter on the Multiair oil intake, which screws into the head near the cam spocket. You did not pull that filter. But I suspect it's OK given the spark plug destroyed this engine. Sell that Mulitiair head but replace the Multiair filter before you sell it, or at least clean it with brake cleaner.
Sparkplugs were not replaced at the required intervals. I had one and kept up on maintenance and it ran and ran
Man, I really do enjoy all of these teardowns. Even if I don't have a vested interest most of them, they still have vast educational value and are entertaining. It's a great channel to watch and to learn from. See you next time. Eric! God bless all that you do!
FIAT has been using those wretched hose clamps since at least the '90s. They're basically the same as CV boot clamps. I always replace them with standard screw-type clamps if I have to take the hose off, mostly because the FIAT clamps are intended to be one-time use and you need the special tool to install them. This car was probably on its second timing belt, judging by mileage and belt condition. It's rare for an engine to have a prescribed interval greater than about 8 years/100k miles, though apparently (according to the internet) Jeeps with 1.4T MultiAir engines specify 15 years/150k miles.
I don't know if the US service schedule is different but in the UK the spark plugs are changed annually.
I like these engines, they are easy to work on and the hose clamps are easy to remove with the right tool which only costs £20. I changed the multi air unit on mine without the special tool, I think I was the first driveway mechanic to do it myself.
There are videos of what a failed unit sounds like on my channel.
Americans attempt to perform regular maintenance on a car challenge (impossible).
These cars have copper core plugs with a short service interval for a reason...
This is a nicely thought engine, minus some stupid things, like removing the whole intake manifold to do the valve cover gaskets. This engine is based on the 1.4 Fiat Turbo Jet (TJET) engine, which has a standard valvetrain and is turbocharged, and it puts out 105-160hp, depending on cars. It's a fantastic little engine, you can push out 3-400000 miles from it, and you can double the HP without working on internals. It's a good workhorse and it's deadly simple to maintain and work on
Turning it over with a small socket had me LOL, well done.
You aren't old enough to remember, but back in the leaded gas days I used to change plugs, points, and plug wires every 20K on my American cars, mostly GMs.
I have four Fiats ranging from late 80's to mid zero's. They all share the same base block, this engine is called the FIRE engine ("Fully Integrated Robotised Engine") and the one here is just one variant of it. All of the engines i have seen at scrappers have severely neglected maintenance especially after 10 years. Timing belts that have never been replaced, oil that has done service for a decade, spark plugs are never replaced. Despite all that they keep running.
The Fiat FIRE is one of most indestructible small engines ever. And they are really smooth!
The timing belt has a service interval of 150k, although it’s a good idea to do it before that mileage. The plugs are OEM copper core, so they require replace every 30k. Almost all major work requires a tear down of the front end of the car to do (the engine compartment is extremely tight).
I was surprised you didn’t notice the harmonica balancer is wider than the block.
The Fiat 500 is a small light weight car with a very short wheelbase and an extremely tight turning radius. They were an econobox, but not like average one (4 wheel disk brakes were standard along with sway bars and good tires). The engine was designed by a Ferrari engine designer a long time ago and uses forged rods and crank and will easily travel all day at 90 mph. I had one of the very first ones built for 6 years and had a ball with it and still miss it.
Yep. To me it felt like driving a go cart, an awesome go cart.😂 I kinda liked it.
I had one as a rental for a business trip to some big city (Boston or Chicago, I forget). It was perfectly adequate with one huge plus...parking. That thing was so easy to park. Tiny car, tiny wheelbase, and fantastic low speed maneuverability. Awesome lil city car.
Mine is an early one too. Though listed as a 2012 it was actually built in August of 2011.
Thank you for finally doing the engine in my car!!! If I ever blow mine, you can have my turbo one!! You know a couple of my friends here in Kansas City, we will be in touch!
5:10 - In Europe we outsmarted the FCA engineers by cutting that stupid tab. LOL
in America, that design was demanded by an accountant who's goal was to save 3.478 cents per unit........ and unfortunately the accountants will cannot be outsmarted under any circumstance.
It is worse on the Nissan/Renault HR16DE engine, you just got to remove the entire manifold to change spark plugs, not only that, also throttle body just for some friggin plugs.
every single time we saw one in our shop we choped that bit off, and its not just this engine that has that but all the fiat 1.2 and 1.4 16valve have them
Yeah I definitely would LOVE paying out of my ass for a shop to fuck up my engine with a hackjob like that...
@@lincer556 When I saw engine code I was pretty sure it's K4M like in ma renault, but then googled it. Can't tell what were they thinking. They had ready design with accessible plugs from previous gen. Recently I had to change intake orings on my two engines and I will say it's not the end of the world, but in my case throttle body is sandwiched between manifold and intake filter plus srwed in with two 10mm UNDER it. Mildly infuriating. Of course there was a dovel pin one the run while putting it back together.
Every time I watch your channel I'm reminded that I need to change my oil. This time I'm concerned about my spark plugs. I just put a set of NGK plugs in my Civic!
Thank you eric for granting us our wish for a multiair engine.
Here's a liitle more info on the multiair engines:
1. Co-developed with the germans (schaeffer group)
2. Used in some ingenium engines from Jaguar-Land Rover
3. Servicing and oil changes must be frequent but most of all: ALWAYS USE THE OIL PRESCRIBED BY THE MANUFACTURER.
I've seen a person come up to me and say that his engine failed because he put some cheapo oil in it.
4. Originally i think they used 5w-40 but later switched to 0w-30 oil (at least for the 900c two cylinder versions)
5. The 2-cylinder version (twinair) comes with tiny water pump with a metallic impeller. Not bad for such a small engine. BUT, the pump is hidden behind the timing chain. Good luck changing it.
Overall they're great little engines, torquey on the turbo versions (if you're on boost...) and reliability improved significantly after 2015 AFAIK. But you need a VERY LIGHT foot to get the advertised fuel economy. Otherwise it fucking drinks fuel like it was thirsty in the desert.
Looking forward for more content from Italian cars!
I dunno, I drive like an asshole and get 35+ MPG out of my N/A 500.
@@plymouth491 The N/A ones are great on fuel, the turbocharged ones not so much. The 900cc twin-air is well known for being thirsty and never getting close to the wildly optimistic claims that Fiat made for it.
#5 Pretty sure the twinair (900cc) is a timing chain engine and the water pump is at the ancillary end?
@richardshepherd6108 you're correct. It has a chain. Confused it with FIRE engines which have a belt. Been driving many FIATs and have been quite happy with them.
Abarth owner here (2017)! People ask all the time "does it get good gas mileage?"...it could...but the moment I touch SPORT...it drinks like a hummer...not...joking..
Fun note at 5:10 with that weird intake manifold... Pre-2015 and most abarth's, its a metal bracket with 3 bolts you take out and just take off the metal bracket. My car didn't even come with the metal bracket that's supposed to be there.
it wouldn't have been an oil related failure because if there is not enough oil in it the multi air system goes first and throws an engine failure before the engine even have a chance of killing itself.
Yup. It stalls before the oil starvation causes any more damage. Am sure it wasn't by design tho
@@MeDicen_Rocha yup one of the cylinders stops functioning, if you restart it you can maybe get somewhere with 3 cylinders.
oh yeah fun fact you can over rev the engine when it's cold and kill the multi air system because there is not enough oil pressure.
Good video, really interresting since i have almost the same engine ( some parts change cause it's on a fiat punto, with more room in the engine bay).
It's a pretty good engine, from the FIRE series.
For info, the timing belt interval is 5 years/ 120 000 km in EU, but i thinks it's different in USA, cause the spark plugs intervall is also different.
I would like to add some information from a EU/French perspective:
- From my experience,18000 miles ( 30000km) for spark plugs is not specially low, many other brand have this kind of interval. Sparks plugs are cheap for our standards ( 3-5 € for a unit, cheaper than an oil change on this engine ), so it's not a problem.
- We are not doing the same kind of mileage in France in general ( around 6-15k miles a year). I thinks it's more in germany, but it's pretty low compared to USA
- In France, we consider that the car is dead at 120 000 miles, which is the mileage of this engine.
- The most common issue on this engine in EU is the multiair acuator. But in general, it's caused by a lack of maintenance on oil, because on the expensive car equip with this technology, no problem
- lot of cheap car in France are still using timing belt here. But on this engine, i think it's the easiest one to do it, (i'm not a professionnal mechanic, and it's done in like 2-3 hours, and the most expensive tools i used is a jack stand).
And personal point of view, i prefer the timing belt on this engine, which never fail, even when your late on change (Full throttle to the rev limiter on a 1 year overdue timing belt) , than the oily timing belt you can encounter on other engine, with castastrophic failure like the 1.2 puretech engine from PSA ( Peugeot, citroen, now in stellantis), or Timing chain failure on the BMW/ VW engine.
This channel should have easily over a million subscribers
Naahh. We’re pretty odd.
This is better than SNL!
I have been watching Eric for a few years. I remember how humble he was when he hit a 100k subs. His channel keeps growing and growing.
Hear, hear! 🥳
Re-gapping iridium plugs is said to be forbidden. "once the heat cycles have started, re-gaping will result in the bottom electrode breaking off in the cylinder."
Fun fact, those engines do not have as throttle plate like a conventional engine. That multiair actuator controls engine speed and power, the solenoid controls oil pressure to open and close the valves. It only fully opens the intake valves when the engine needs full power, other than that it can open the intake multiple times in one intake cycle, open the valves late and close them early, open early and close late, and that controls engine speed and idle and engine breaking, all without a throttle plate.
No wonder it's trash
They DO have throttle plate, you can even see throttle body with electric motor in 4:45. The throttle is wide open most of the time, except phases of oil vapor/petrol vapor recovery, or engine cut-off.
@kwahoo5746 Look up how the fiat multiair engine works. They will tell you that it don't have a throttle plate.
@@sidneysanders5726 I own a car with (170hp) 1.4 mutiair engine.And I had it's throttle in my hands.
And from the 1.4 Multiair description: "The throttle body or motorized throttle, with throttle control of motorized and sensors
position, is used by the Node Engine Control Module with Magneti Marelli 8GMF MultiAir
adjust the amount of air drawn into the engine in special conditions:
*During recirculation of petrol vapor recovery
*For the oil vapor recovery from blow-by
*In phase cut-off throttle is still closed to facilitate the motor slowdown
*In recovery strategy, in case of breakage of the components of the module MultiAir."
@@mann_idonotreadreplies : Nah, it's the folks that own 'em.
My wife had the Fiat Panda 100hp, with the 1.4 engine. Great little flying machine.
I always wondered about the aluminium casting, it looks like expanded polystyrene with all the little balls stuck together, see 12:33 on the video.
You just know some account at Fiat Powertrain is watching this with a proud smile about his cost saving on the inlet manifold,and thinking "bellissimo".
Great to see the snack packs back in the show, was starting to lose it at work this week haha. Gonna resubscribe now!
100 horsepower? I learned to drive in a ‘57 Volkswagen. It had an entire 36 horsepower hooked up to a 4 speed stick shift transaxle. My dad had it up to 70 mph on the highway. It finally rusted out.
IKR, 100BHP seems decent to me.
That’s a NA. Turbo versions are more common and horsepower varies from 120 to 200+ hp
Yay! Finally a Fiat 500! I miss my Spyder Abarth so much. Again, it's cool to see how different manufacturers approach engineering a problem like the multi air. The 500 has been around for 75 years or more. Cool stuff Eric. Thanks.
I loved the line " I hope whoever designed this gets gout ..twice " 😅👍
Mai sentito di problemi smontaggio FIRE
Mai sentito di problemi smontaggio FIRE
Mai sentito di problemi smontaggio FIRE
Yeah! Not only a staple of my Saturday evening has been posted. But it is an engine I requested not too long ago! Thanks!
Now, to watch
When I was in high school my parents bought me a used Fiat 500 Sport USA spec. It had 22 HP instead of 18 and would do 80 according to the speedometer (I got it up to that on the way to Homosassa Springs on Fl 50). The entire width of the door was about one inch. It was a fun little car and I don't remember why we got rid of it.
A lot of those growing up😅
Did they weigh much over 1000 lb ?
They were slower than the old VW beetles.
My mother had one, at least till it got written off in an accident, where it was hit head on by another who was cutting a corner. Car written off, and a few injuries to my mother and her sister as well, but they were saved by the Fiat crumpling up in the impact. Mom did not drive for around 2 years afterwards, till she got a Renault 5 as replacement. That car ran a year on a tank of fuel, as it was driven 12km a week, and shopping we would walk to the supermarket 3 minutes away. Tool longer to drive and park instead of walk.
I had one to commute to University. Fitted a big bore kit to it and performance was quite good.
I think I got lucky with my 2012 Focus. This one, for an economy car, WAS maintained. I recently changed the valve-cover gasket and when I popped it off I got a good look at the cams, perfectly clean. had almost 100K miles and looked practically new.
Oh man, ever since understanding how the intake valves work on these I smelled trouble and here we are. Great find.
It's only slightly more complicated than standard hydraulic lifters....
The failure wasn't related to the complexity of the valve train though
First, yeah that bracket absolutely blows. On the turbo version its a separate piece that unbolts. It's stupid that the base/budget spec engine is the one with that stupid serviceability decision.
Apart from multiair being pretty cool (and proving electrohydraulic valve control is viable in practice), its also neat how modular these engines are. The cam carrier can be swapped out with a euro DOHC cam carrier quite easily which makes it just like any other 4-cylinder that originated from the 80s.
Innovative design - thanks for the teardown Eric - surprising the piston skirts had such low wear and no coating removed
Back when these were new in the states in 2012, I was enamored by them as I had a soft spot for Fiats since the early 70's when a priest we were friends with had a bright red Familiare, the wagon variant of the 128, then a fairly new modern FWD, overhead cam car with a transverse engine with a separate transaxle and a typical these days, McPherson Strut suspension. Originally introduced in 1969 and sold here in the US until at least 1978 and was replaced by the Strada that was sold here until 1980 if I recall.
Anyway, drove the basic naturally aspirated 1.4 Sport version with the 5spd manual and it was very punchy for the horsepower. 100 horses and a curbweight of something like 2200 Lbs allowed it to be sprightly in performance. If I could have afforded one, I'd have snapped it up. I also got to drive the 500L as well, that one had the turbo and belted out 130HP to compensate for the larger/heavier vehicle. It was a blast too, though I would have lowered it a touch, added an strut stabilizer and a "go" pedal to tighten up the pedal response from a dead stop, but leave it stock otherwise.
If I had to replace my Mazda Protege 5 wagon today, I'd look into either the 500L with manual, or the Renegade with the 1.4 and manual, hopefully it came in the trailhawk trim as it actually has true 4x4 drive line, and thus the most capable of the Renegades.
Either way, these were viewed I think much like the old Yugo, as disposable cars and were treated as such. Word was, if kept maintained they did last, and yes, were largely based on the body of the 127 in hatchback form, but with the drive train of the 128, at least here in the US, which meant in the beginning, the base models had the 1.1L 4, the GVX for the sportier (?) 1.3, which only had a few horsepower over the 1.1. Yes, even then, the timing belt had to be changed at something like every 50K miles, or until they improved the belt so the intervals got longer between recommended changes, but so many drove them without proper maintenance so they got the reputation they had because of that mindset. I think these 500's, in the US anyway were likely thought much the same way.
I'd still like to one, as long as the maintenance has been kept up.
I agree. I thought it had a bit of pep to it and handled good enough. Its a fun little car.
It's interesting that the front suspension on these is basically a 1st generation VW Rabbit front suspension copy. With 21st century touches, of course (better materials).
They were cool cars. My sister had a little 128 4-door in a Cold War era, Soviet green.
I love your show dude. I am a tri tradesman from Australia. Fitter/machinist/boilermaker.
Im not a car enthusiast and I refuse to work on engines, love watching other people work on them.
I like your commentary, love your sarcasm. I get big kick out the comments people send in how you respond to them. I love how they pick your to pieces but don’t have the balls to make their own show and put themselves out there in front of the entire world to see. Fat heads that never get off the lounge would a good bet. Keep it up mate. Great stuff.
Note to Dorman. At 5:00 is the opportunity to sell a "repair kit" so the technician can CUT that terribly designed bracket to remove the valve cover, etc. Then use a Dorman bracket repair thingee to put it back together.
From across the pond, love the humour and 'fast/slow' soundbites. Oh and the teardowns of course. 😆
Volvo loves those clamps, too. They're called Oetiker clamps. They are annoying, but, in fairness, they do apply pressure more better and evenly, and they're generally actually easier to uninstall/install. Slide a screw driver in the tab and twist to take off, and the clamp tool just line up and squeeze to install; all done. Only downsides is if you forgot to put it on the hose before you attached it, unlike a worm gear one, you can't undo it completely, you have to pull the hose and slide it over, and that you have to have just the right size of them because it has to slide over the hose, and it can only tighten so much.
This isn't an Oetiker clamp, those are crimped to fit and one time use as they have to be cut off or at least mangled beyond re-use. This Fiat engine uses a Clic R clamp which are re-useable. Using a screwdriver to remove is unnecessary if you have the pliers as they are designed for both removal and installation; you simply turn the pliers around and use the appropriate jaws on each side of the latch, one way removes, the other installs.
@@ferrumignis I didn't know that; thanks. Are they better for clamping than worm clamps like Oetiker?
@@wtyrrel They are better than worm drive clamps in that you can't over-tension them, and they are faster to remove and replace. Also easier to use than the constant tension spring clamps, though I suspect the constant tension type are probably the best for use on plastic cooling parts (which I hate with a vengeance).
I grew up in Europe, and am currently there after 25 years in the USA. My first car had a 45hp TU9 engine, on which I changed the spark plugs on a regular basis.
I currently drive a car with the dreaded 82hp EB2 engine, which I'm about to bring in for a timing belt change at 60k miles. Learning from this channel, I'm getting both the spark plugs and the water pump changed along the way (the coils and the accessory belts will already be off anyway).
The EB2 has significant problems with its wet timing belt, where there's apparently an issue where running the car in short urban trips gums up the rings, which lets a bit of gasoline into the oil, which then degrades the belt if you don't use the one oil that is expressly formulated for that application, and bits of belt then clog the oil pickup, the solenoids, etc... Replacement belts are supposed to last longer, and they recently re-engineered the engine to switch to a chain. Getting the engine hot and giving it a good italian tune-up every now and then still does some good to some engines, though at some point the rings just get stuck and the engine burns oil and needs to get replaced.
Electrode forged piston...🔨
Don't complain, on the Renault-Peugeot-Citroën PSA ES9J4 V6 you need to remove the intake manifold just to change the spark plugs on the rear cylinder bank.
You also have to do that on some of the front wheel drive GM 3.6 V6 cars in the US, or pull the front motor mount/rock the engine forward.
@@Stephens_offroad_and And don't even talk about changing the syncro distribution belt with engine in place
@@TheMissing62Or just about any serpentine accessory on a front wheel drive. Drop the whole subframe just to replace a power steering pump, remove the right front wheel to change the alternator...
I've never come across that particular phrase, but I'm assuming that you're referring to timing/cam drive belts, and at least what I have to work on all has good lifetime chains. Especially since some of those belts have intervals that overlap with my family's yearly mileage. Last year alone we put 50k miles on a Grand Marquis and over 10k miles on an Impala, plus I partook in the addition of several thousand miles to other people's vehicles while off at school.
@@Stephens_offroad_and Yes, I was referring to the timing/cam drive belts.
Synchronic belt or "correa de distribución" for us.
120k Km. is the scheduled duration according to the manufacturer.
That plug was loose at some point, it overheated and the center of it came apart, all the carbon in that plug hole and the burned looking coil are clues. The 2v 5.4s can do this before launching plugs, I've also seen this on 3.5 J series V6s. The plug backs out, overheats, sometimes self destructs or comes completely out of the threads.
This was good to see. I have a 500 L with the turbo. 120K on the engine. It runs great, I'm religious about oil changes. Every 3K miles
The engine purrs really. The transmission gives me worries. It's difficult to find information on it.
It's kind of a hybrid. Really a manual with an automatic twin clutch.
I hope you find the turbo version one day.
Absolutely agree with your definition of what an economy utilitarian car should be.
If it wasn't for that broken spark plug it would have been fine.
I don't own one or even want one but you have a good point, Everybody is too busy giggling about a tiny engine,but 100hp is excessive for a tiny car in Yurp.
TBH, if that cylinder was still making compression it likely would have run with new plugs (although likely not well)
@@PeterCrosland I wouldn't say it's excessive, it's a useful amount of power if you are using motorways/highways. For purely city use the much lower power 1.2L engine is fine.
@@ferrumignis Well it's not completely over the top but for a car that is under 12 feet long and weighs in at under a ton 0.9 and 1.2 litre will take it anywhere and FIAT know that Italy is very lumpy. The original 500 never got above 20bhp from the factory and they sold quite a few. Have you checked your average speed, last time I looked at mine it was 14mph, in London it is in single figures. 20bhp is fine.
@@litz13 Yeah I bet new plugs and it would have run fine. Shame the other shop scrapped it before at least trying a cheap set of plugs.
Timing belt change interval: BIB-Before It Breaks
When you think about it, the oil-pressure driven valves are a great protection against low oil levels ruining the engine, specially given these are quite infamous for burning oil at an alarming (but within manufacturer's spec) rate.
The good old "oh it stalls when i stop or make a sharp turn" while the oil change light is on
cat diesels have an oil pressure driven injector pump, they are fail safe too. it's a good implementation. i reckon when the patents run out all engines will have the multiair system, since it saves using a cam and cam phasers.
Mine managed 135,000miles with me and never burnt a drop of oil. It always got rev'd out every journey, so perhaps they just need exercise to energise the oil control rings.
All engines should have an oil pressure switch, high temperature switch, and low transmission oil switch that kills the ignition/fuel injection.
They don't drink oil. As long as you frikin do maintenance on em.
@sedixmrboss5625 what? They absolutely burn oil. Otherwise there wouldn't be a recall on them for oil consumption. Not to speak of the rather lax oil consumption figures Chrysler provides you with.
I had a 2013 Dart with the 1.4T. Those 30k spark plug intervals were annoying for the first few years, where the dealer was the only place to buy them at $40/plug. The OEM coils were terrible. After having to replace 3 of them, I swapped them all out for some Alfa Romeo 4C coils.
Replacing the timing belt on it is interesting. Unfortunately, my Dart was totaled before I needed to do it. You need a specific toolkit to lock the cam and crank in place.
Also on the turbo Dart, there's a plastic coolant tee connecting to the engine-off circulating pump that likes to break if you look at it wrong. I didn't want to wait for a replacement or get another plastic one that would break, so I built one out of some brass pipe fittings from Home Depot.
A tool that locks the cam and crank in place seems like a fantastic idea. It makes a timing job hard to mess up when you are required to lock the cam and crank, and they only lock in a single position that is correctly timed.
my girlfriend has a 5spd abarth and she loves that lil thang 😂😂
Abarth's are fun
As long as she looks after it, it will be OK, but the labour intensive maintenance will be expensive, and that is why people dont look after them and they die prematurely. As a general rule dont buy Fiats (Stellantis).
They did a kick ass job with the exhaust on the Abarth. Strong tuned MGB vibes.
Fun note: this closed deck block, in the turbo version, can easily go up to >200Hp with just a chiptune... :)
Ok, I was circumcised when I was eight days old, and I am still angry with my parents for doing it. but I do NOT look like that spark plug!
😆
Thanks for sharing!
@@ottopartz1 YW✂
Your parents probably thought they were getting a good deal. After all, they don't charge for circumcisions -- they just take tips.
@@pauldietz1325 pah dum PHISS~
Love the videos. Here’s a request, find some boat engines to tear down. Inboard, outboard, whatever. An idea to have something different on the channel.
The commitment to the water pump bit gets me every single time.😂
I was expecting a white cloth to be laid over top of it once he put it on the blue shop rag on the bench!
This is an excellent engine. I've got one in my Alfa Romeo Giulietta and put a chip tune into it. Bonkers power from such a small displacement.
The engines have no value, because the cars have no value and are thus totaled if the engine fails.
Not the least of which is any damage to the upper oil pan will require a new short block due to the main bearing halves being part of the upper pan.
Would you mind taking out the multiair filter on the next one? They can easily be cleaned, but could mess up the multiair unit when clogged
100% the multiair filter in the side of the head would have been interesting to look at.
THANK YOU ERIC! I have two cars with the turbo version of this engine, asked for a teardown if possible, and you came through!
I just changed the spark plugs in both of our cars not long ago, pretty sure the turbo version has the 30K mile change interval while that base model engine has a 100K interval. Not expensive to change them but you need a thin-walled spark plug socket. FWIW old plugs looked fine, gap was pretty much near spec but changed them anyway.
NGK/FIAT designed a plug specifically for the MultiAir engines but Denso, Bosch, and possibly a few others have developed compatible plugs since then.
Before anybody badmouths FIAT for this design, the wife legit hits 50mpg in straight highway driving with her turbo 500 and she definitely does NOT hypermile her car. Great little engines...IF you take care of them properly.
My wife has a 2017 Jeep Renegade 4x4 6 speed manual with the 1.4L multiair turbo. Interesting engine it puts out 160hp and 180lbs of torque and it moves that vehicle surprisingly well.
The multiair works by using uncompressible oil with a compressed air spring.
The multiair module must be kept upright so the oil doesn’t drain and alter the amount of air used for the spring.
So it looks to me like the roller running on the cam pushes a plunger full of oil. Then the computer determines how much and when that oil pushes open the valve.
There is no air spring, it uses conventional coil springs. If the multiair module gets drained (which can happen after a long period of the car being being started) then it can cause crank no start, and there is a specific bleeding sequence to fix this.
@@timothyball3144 Yes that's correct, the cam operates a plunger that pushes oil into a piston that pushes the valve open. There is a PCM controlled solenoid valve that bleeds oil out of the circuit, which makes the valve close. It may seem complex but for a system that gives so much control over valve lift, timing and duration it's relatively simple, a genius bit of design IMO.
@@ferrumignis The coil spring is used to close the intake valve like any other valve. The spring with the cam returns the pump plunger back to the starting position and prevents float. Hydraulic oil pressure is used to open the intake valve. It gets the energy to do this from the compressed air. The piston that follow the cam drives oil into the chamber with the air resulting in stored energy. Fast acting solenoids.release this pressure to the plunger sitting on top of the intake valve which then opens the valve.
Been looking forward to seeing one of these. Fun to watch. Fiat always has built a stout bottom end for their engines. Glad to see they continued that with the MultiAir units.
So....The way this engine works, the intake cam pushes on a lifter, but the amount of lift is determined by the oil pressure. No oil pressure is no lift, which means there is air flow. Thus there is no need for a throttle plate on this engine. Very clever! This system reduces pumping losses, but it cannot be more than 1-2% more efficient for all this extra complication over a true DOHC system.
Reminds me of why the infamous 1.2 Puretech (or 1.2 Purecrap) has the wet timing belt, since it reduces the friction losses on the timing system on the order of 20-30%.
Funny thing is, that only equates to around 1-3% better efficiency overall.
Don't know if the engine made across the Atlantic tho, but if it did, advice would be to just don't. Which is too bad tho. Thing actually is quite a perky engine and doesn't usually have any other outstanding issues beyond the ones related to the oil pickup being clogged up by pieces of belt
@@GrimpakTheMook Even 1% efficiency improvement is quite significant.
@@ferrumignis considering the engine in question, it's more of an emission tax bracket thing. We're talking about a 1.2 petrol DI engine that does 4-5L/100km already. These things sip fuel. Being just a tiny bit less efficient at this level means it's barely noticeable, if at all.
@@GrimpakTheMook It's huge, especially in Europe. Since 2009 manufacturers have had an average (i.e across all cars produced) CO2 emission limits that effectively get fined for exceeding, a cost passed straight onto consumers. When you are selling millions of small cars, even minor improvements can significantly affect the average.
@@ferrumignis I can see your point, which is fair. Wet belt is still bad, if you ask me.
As the owner of a vehicle with this type of engine but turbocharged since 2011 and working on these vehicles, I can also provide some feedback:
- Here in Europe, it was first announced by the manufacturer that the service had to be carried out every 30,000km or 2 years. This was later lowered to 15,000km or 1 year.
- Spark plugs are not the same as turbo engines. Here they have to be replaced every 30,000km. We've hardly ever had a problem with spark plugs, except on engines that have been modified to increase their performance.
- The timing kit + water pump really isn't that expensive compared to other cars with engines in the same range, and is extremely easy to replace. A qualified mechanic can do it without any problem. I did it on my car in 2 hours.
- The recommended replacement under normal use is 120,000 km or 5 years, but we've already seen 10-year-old vehicles with the original belt without any problems.
- As already mentioned, there's a small filter for the multiair that needs to be cleaned not necessarily at every service but periodically.
- For turbocharged engines, the oil inlet screw of turbo is fitted with a small filter, which must also be cleaned or replaced periodically.
- Only use recognized quality 5W40 sport type or 0W30 motor oil, nothing else and no cheap oil.
To conclude, in 200,000km I've only had relatively minor problems. As I mainly make short trips in a cold climate, one cylinder became ovalized and the engine started to consume oil. When I dismantled this cylinder for repair, I found that all the internal parts of the engine were fine and very little worn.
Carry out the services at the intervals recommended by the manufacturer, and a little earlier if you're only doing short trips, and you shouldn't have any engine problems :-)
Greetings from Europe, and I hope this will be of help to former and future owners alike.
So the reason things are designed the way that intake support is is simple. A fellow do it your selfer told me this and it makes perfectly good sense. Many years ago, a mechanic had an affair with an engineer's / designer's wife, girlfriend whatever and the way the engineer / designer decided to get back at every mechanic was to make a simple thing really difficult or dumb for every mechanic thereafter.
An friend of mine was the service manager of a Fiat dealership in the early years of the 500 model. He related to me the details of a recall of all early 500 models. It seems that the rear main seals in those models were undersize, leading to serious oil leaks. To r&r the seal, the whole front mask, radiator, lights, and etc had to be removed. Then the half shafts had to be disconnected from the spindles, and the engine/trans unit had to be dropped out of the bottom of the engine compartment. Unlike most modern engines, the rear main seal was not accessible with the bellhousing in place, so the trans had to be split from the engine. The main bearing caps had to be partially removed and the crankshaft dropped down to access the seal. Replacement was a reverse of the removal. Fiat was only paying 4 HOURS OF LABOR at a discounted rate for this very time consuming repair. His BEST technicians could do the full repair in 7 to 8 hours of clock time. He bemoaned that he was losing a high percentage of his best techs, who for some reason didn't like getting paid for HALF the actual hours spent. There is ample reason that FIAT owners said that the name stood for Fix It Again Tony. BILL
I've been waiting for the 1.4T one. I had a Dodge Dart with one and it was a NIGHTMARE.
I had an old van with a Ford 300 in it. One of the copper electrodes dropped out of the spark plug. The cylinder walls and piston looked fine when I had the head off.
1.4 multi issue motor....
Yep, the infamous Mult-Air 1.4 500/Dart engine.
Multi-Air is a great engine but it will let you know if you can’t be bothered to spend a few $ on oil changes.
I have the “normal” valve versions of this engine 1.2 8V 60bho 1.4 16V 100HP and 1.3 16V diesel 70bhp.
Cam cover gasket leaks are a zero problem.
Head gaskets fail because people don’t bother to check for coolant leaks. Any overheating in any small engine will blow the HG.
Early diesels break the cam chains. Thanks to GM for demanding a chain instead of proven cam belts. Later models (75bho) are better.
I had a 2011 Pop ... it was solid for 5 years that I owned it. Mine had the 5-speed and Stellantis cheaped out on the pressure plates for the US models. Mine failed at 11k miles, they took care of it before a general recall was ordered for it - which they replaced a second time at 17k. If memory serves, they ended up using the Abarth clutch setup as a "fix." Other than that, mine ran perfect. As you mentioned, oil-pressure runs these, so being on top of that was paramount to longevity. I once drove a little more than 1100 miles round trip in 22 hours in it from Texas to Oklahoma with zero hiccups, aside from 70 pounds of ice that formed on the nose heading into an arctic front, and Oklahoma's washboard toll-roads breaking my back. That said, it was very practical - and let me save enough money to buy something much nicer (and larger) afterwards. 31.5mpg combined, but it did fall a little on its face on the highway with a 5-speed manual to the tune of lower-mid 20's in mpg around 70-80. These were absolutely built down to a price - that was the point of them though. Rubber seals around the windows and grommets were pretty hopeless, and the shifter boot retention ring broke twice on me. I think other than that, I replaced 1 window regulator which was pretty easy to do too.
Re: the intake bracket bolt...
Remember, zero auto makers make anything to actually repair, they're made to ship out the door and last as long as the warranty, and that's it. They care not if someone later has to do maintenance beyond oil changes and such. Annoying they don't think of that, but there it is.
Do they not take warranty repair costs in to account? If a stupid design like this changes a .5hr repair in to a 1.5hr repair, and adds a new gasket to the bill, the manufacturer ends up worse off than if they'd just did what Eric said, and added a bracket. You can guarantee that the cost of the bracket would be added to the vehicle cost anyway...
@@longrange1977because the guy above is talking out his ass. More often than not its costs and multi-chassis use related. Seeing something on a stand vs all the install options limits your ability to make a decent conclusion
@@longrange1977 No, they actually don't. What they do is ship a few thousand. If one out of every thousand breaks, they have made enough to not worry about engineering for the warranty work. That is a small battle in the war of manufacturing.
Then it finally gets out of warranty, they won the war. That's how it's done. Warranties exist solely to placate the feelings of the purchaser, a feature that if the vehicle is engineered correctly and all things involved were perfect, would actually never be used.
But 10% rule. Stuff happens. They're prepared for it in the budget.
The ONLY way this stupid bracket would be revised in the way Eric asks is if indeed there was a STUPID rash of warranty work. Way over the 10% (arbitrary number here, mind) of warranty expected. A running change will be needed, but the OLD ones, will not be changed out.
Also the engine is designed fairly separately from the car. Which is where the dumb oil filter/plug vs the car chassis interference things happen. As but one example of such.
This is the Way of Car Manufacturing. Ship it, deal with the small warranty work, overall winning.
@@Gapines23 I am not. They don't give one damn about working on the car. Worked in the industry. They make thousands, millions of these things, the few percentage of them that come back for warranty are not enough to make changes, or IT WOULD BE DONE.
It lasts the warranty, and there they go, they won. Your problem now.
@@longrange1977 Not many things likely to need repair before the warranty runs out that would require removing the head. And most of the few there are would not be repairs but a full engine replacement. So the manufacturer doesn't care because it's not something they or their dealers ever have to work on unless the customer is paying for it. Plus it's a cheap car so tell the customer the repair is going to be expensive, they are more likely to just buy a new car. Probably exactly what happened here.
The fact that the pistons hitting and crushing the spark plugs was a known issue makes me wonder if the factory plugs stretch on that engine, I read one forum that said (when changing the plugs to add a spark plug washer) to reduce how deep it penetrates into the cylinder.
That built in bracket on the intake manifold to the valve cover is 90% of the reason I hated working on European cars. They are full of crap like that. It's so common that it feels intentional.
I remember when the multi air engines were announced and they said that the intake valves would be hydroelectrically activated, I thought it was a freaking cool idea...that was never going to work in a mass-produced car, let alone a cheap appliance like these engines are all installed in. No freaking way that something that obviously delicate would ever last in a cheap toaster of a car.
That bracket could be cut off and a home made bracket installed to make it easier. It's only there to restrict movement of the manifold.
Fords are built the same way. Want to change the blower motor on the firewall? Start up by the grille because you can't remove the blower motor without removing the ABS pump, but you can't remove the ABS pump without removing the coolant and washer fluid combo tank, but you can't remove the coolant/washer fluid combo tank without removing the battery, but you can't remove the battery without removing the entire airbox, which is right up front next to the radiator.
Everything has 1 or 2 bolts that cannot be physically accessed in any way, shape, or form without fully disconnecting all its lines/hoses/wires and also removing something else first. And every goddamned bolt has a different size head on it.
FIAT always made bad cars, but the engines weren't bad.
The problem was associating with Chrysler.
@@PlatypusVomit I had an Isuzu Trooper that was built like that.
@@PlatypusVomit The Car Care Nut was replacing a road-hazard damaged A/C condenser on a late model RAV4. He explained how he had to run up hours charged the customer by removing all of the front trim to gain access. Such ankle-bone-is-connected-to-the-knee-bone access procedures is apparently not limited to Ford. Or Fiat.
I like that the non-turbo engine still got the oil cooler as well as the fancy oil pan.
Only the Italians would figure that complex “multi-air” doohickey would somehow be a better idea than a camshaft…
The multiair system allows for complete control of the intake valve. It is so flexible, that throttle valve is only used for idle. Above idle, the multiair system uses the valves to regulate the amount of air into the engine.
Italy the country that lost to Ethiopia not once but twice!
@@Zoomie61 But it came on an econo-box. The reason they're worth money to salvage is they go bad. It's overly complex and like other things he talks about (plugs, how soon?), not well suited to an econo-car. A single central can and forked rockers (keeping the 4valve head) would be simple, and reliable.
@@jpkalishek4586 Honda manages to get better fuel economy just using VTEC, and they go 500k no multi air garbage needed.
@@unclejoe6811 somebody asked an old Honda engineer what he thought of the Toyota Prius - he didn't see the big deal, "We were getting over 50 MPG in the 1980's with a carburetor."
I own a giulietta 1.4 multiair turbocharged from 2010. It's a good engine as long as you dont miss a beat on the maintenance intervals. The multiair can get clogged up with dirt if you skip oil changes. Havent had to changed it out yet.
Nice work Adam Sandler
Spark plug seals often leak on these. One interesting aspect is that the mass airflow sensor is in the manifold, rather than on the airbox, so you can replace the giant airbox with a little K&N-type filter.
3:10 ,turns over the tiny engine with a 1/4 ratchet instead of a breaker bar ,one weak engine, seen lawnmowers need more to turn them over 😂
I'm a believer, not a DREAM WEAVER... I might be wrong but HOLY SMOKES... pretty nice timing belt 😊
With about 30 years of mechanic experience, NGK spark plugs are the absolute worst, Autolites are second worse
Champion copper core ftw
Which ones are good?
The trick to getting a fresh Multi Air engine to build compression to start up and run is to have a replacement starter on the bench for when all the smoke leaks out of the first one. Unless you've got a stick shift and a tow rope and can tow it in gear a few miles.
I don't understand why an econobox like a Fiat 500 would need spark plugs every 15-30k, my last three cars have 100k intervals on spark plugs and none of them have ever had this sort of an issue. Did Fiat cheap out so much on these that even the spark plugs are crap?
There might be side effects in the combustion palace of those MultiAir engines that Stellantis are not sharing with the general public????
Just did a sparkplug and coil change on exactly this engine on one of my kids' car. Cheap and relatively quick maintenance item that I am hoping will save money and headaches down the road. Change oil frequently (don't follow the ridiculous 10,000 mile recommendation but stick with 3-4K miles), and top off oil as soon as it gets a little low. Same with coolant. Basic things that can go a long way.
My Yamaha FJR 1300 has 145 hp. .😆
C'mon Eric, I thought you would honor the opening of the Olympics with an "Olympic Waterpump Toss". Next time wear your pizzaria chefs hat when working on a Fiat.
FWIW, I was part of a stock car race team in the mid-70s. We ran small block Chevy engines. In a race at College Station, TX, we were running about 3rd when the engine note changed. Had lost a cylinder. Thought possibly a valve spring. After getting back to the shop and tearing down the engine we found that an exhaust valve had chipped out a small pie shaped piece. This piece bounced back and forth between the original cylinder and its mate on the other bank. Both pistons looked like someone had attacked them with tack hammers. The valves in both cylinders showed slight damage as did the head. But the engine did not blow up. Probably turning somewhere around 8K rpm when it happened. But I have never seen a spark plug lose the center electrode/porcelain and the strap. I think the electrode/porcelain failed first and then wiped out the strap.
8K rpm's out of a Chevy small block? I knew a guy who raced an AMX with 302 Chevy small blocks but he had maybe twenty blown engines stacked up around his shop .Meanwhile, a Javelin with an AMC 304 was beating him.
That intake reminds me of the Vortec 2800 where you have to pull the intake to get to the valve cover, where just moving the throttle body over a bit would have fixed it.
This was the hot set up you go out and qualify with the bad plug then come back with a new set of Champions and the Cup is yours.