You touched on it in the video, actually. Mechanisms. Generally speaking a tabletopper who can speak 'Gamerese' can suss out the mechanisms of a game by reading the back, but some games can describe their gameplay very cryptically. An easy, intelligible iconography system depicting 'Deckbuilding', 'Set Collecting' or 'Dudesonamap' would be a handy guide for gamers who are relatively new to the hobby or those who are seeking a specific combination of mechanisms for their next game purchase. Also, removing a patch of drywall and installing a false panel that matches the color of the rest of your wall is the game-hiding method I've found works best. Requires less anesthetic, too.
Rules complexity. When I've bought a few games on my way to a game group (generally when I buy them honestly) it's nice to know if the rules are a bit complicated and I need to take it home first and learn them ahead of time, or if they're straight forward and just get going.
Beginner, intermediate, and advanced players. Mostly to help the mass market gamers realize that Game of Thrones isn't just a Monopoly variant, but also that Ticket To Ride only takes a bit more to learn than they are familiar with. Also, just how many happy onions are inside the box?
If I had someplace near me where I could actually go look at games, I think I would want to see something identifying abstract or thematic, game complexity, and the main mechanisms. If it's a cooperative, worker placement, deck builder, with multi-use cards, and a touch of area control and set collection thrown in because the designer can't make a game without area control and set collection, I don't really need to see all of that on the box. Language dependency would also be nice to know, along with the language it is dependent on. Atlantis rising, I'm talking about you.
My first thought, before you even said it, was game mechanisms. I think that would be useful. I do wonder though, if you put too much technical jargon on the box, whether that might scare away new gamers who might not know what all of that means. I think therefore a "traffic light" system with perhaps green for gateway etc. might work well too.
I'd love to see the "Weight" of the game (not in pounds or kilograms, but in the boardgamegeek.com sense of brain-smashing complexity). Actually, that might be a good way to organize board games... Love Letter and Tsuro to the left, World in Flames and Star Fleet Battles to the right. Also, try saying "Mike & Iconized" aloud. I don't know when that term will come in handy (icons of candy types, perhaps?), but I hope it does, because it's inexplicably fun to say.
I'd like to se the 3 icons for age, player count and time more detailed. For instance, age-info could be replaced with some kind of rating system similar to PEGI, ESRB or MPAA ratings specifying WHY it is recommended for a specific age. For player count-info, instead of having a 1-5 player count it should specify that it is a game for 2 teams with 1-2 player with a solo variant and neutral player variant when playing with odd number of players). The time-info could specify the amount of downtime in relation to actual playing time, but also (as you mentioned) teaching time, set up/tear down-time and time for first time play vs repeated plays. Other than that there could be icons that specify winning conditions (last to be eliminated, first to cross the finishing line, most points after 8 rounds and so on). Another thought is to have an icon showing if most of the game play happens "on the table" (i.e. the information needed to make decisions is mostly visible to everyone), "over the table" (i.e. you need to read the other players and pick up on their verbal clues or body language to make decisions) or "under the table" (i.e. backstabbing, alliance building and other secret information that is out of your control). Could possibly be a combination of any of these three.
Hey Chaz! You mentioned it in your video and I have seen this in an online store as opposed to a boardgame box itself: an icon for language-independent game material. As I am French and I live in Germany, and my gaming group is mostly made of French expatriates like me, we tend to stay away from games with too much German text even though we all speak the language. So I find it extremely practical to be able to order games from that store and now that I will only need to find the French rules online just by looking at this type of icon. However I am not sure this would be so useful as a printed indication on the box itself since cases like me are a rare exception on the market. I know a French guy working as "games librarian" who is trying to build his own classification system with icons, color-coding and all. It tries to summarize the type of game, main mechanisms, material, etc. Mostly useful for games libraries I guess but still on the topic you have raised, I suppose? The same guy also puts up a lots of "videorules" (ala "watch it played") and explains his system on his web site. But it's in French. Well maybe Google can translate it for you if you are really interested... here it is: www.videoregles.net/article/ludopro-systeme-de-classement-et-d-etiquetage-de-jeux Thanks for all your video contributions!
I would like to see an icon that communicates how far the other icons are stretching the truth. For example, is the listed play time a complete fabrication or just mostly wrong? Is the "2-5 players" icon accurate or will playing with more than 4 result in multiple suicides?
Not to brag, but I have an eight year old that can play (and win) games as complex as Orleans or Trajan. This presents a challenge, however, with the age recommendations. The ages listed on games seem to primarily focus on game complexity, which is essentially moot to me. What I do care about however, is if the content is age appropriate (stuff like gore, sexualized imagery, etc...) I wish they divorced the game complexity from the age recommendations and included something to indicate mature themes.
My understanding is that the age recommendations are usually driven by safety regulations. For example, if the company stamps a box "6 or older," then they don't have to worry about making the pieces too large for a 3-year-old to swallow. As a result, it isn't just you--the age recommendations are largely irrelevant for most parents.
Case in point - I was interested in getting the new 51st State master set. The box says "14+" and also has the "not suitable for children under three due to choking hazards" icon on the back. Imperial Settlers says "10+" and as far as I can tell (without playing either game), they're about even in complexity. The problem I have is that especially in a card driven game, I don't know what is on all those cards. If there's even a couple cards that show gruesome violence or have a reference to a post-apocalyptic brothel or something, I don't really want to bring it home to play with the kids. I know my kids can handle the complexity, but the packaging does nothing to tell me if it's safe content-wise. These age recommendations appear to take both complexity AND content into account and that frankly makes them arbitrary and useless to me.
David Allen Seems like we need ESRP ratings for games! '14+ for difficulty and mature themes (violence and sexuality)' would be more helpful than a simple age rating.
Hi, Chaz! Is there any way to somehow create a list of your videos on this channel which have NOT appeared on the Dice Tower in any way, so that those who watch the DT can more easily find the content they haven't seen?
I'd just like to get those three icons standardized to actually mean something. Number of players? 2 to 4 says Star wars Rebellion... only the "4" is just actually playing 2 players, split into two each. Flick em up plays up to 10! Only it's really a 2 player game with false info to make you believe you can play with more. Split the meeples amongsts the players and argue amongst yourselves to know how you should play... by that logic, one could play Agricola with 10 people. Just split the two wooden discs between a team of two people... Or the game plays 2 to 4! But to play 2, you have to use an alternate set of rules which turns the game into an affair so mediocre no one should even bother with it. Age recommended? Only half the games out there list 14+ just to avoid paying for the rights to put it below that age in some jurisdictions (below 14 requires testing to see of the game, considered a toy, is suitable for the age group listed). The 14+ age recommended is not indicative of anything. Play time? Play time per player is already an improvement, but those are rare and few. Average play time of an hour listed? I expect anywhere between 45 minutes and 2 hours... So the icons should be: Time "per player" (and not global time), Number of players AND best with X number of players, The REAL recommended age. A "rules complexity" icon should also be there. Because sometimes i want a super complex, meaty game... and other times i want a simple quick game. When i find a game that looks good for sale, i can't go to bgg and read reviews about it or watch Tom Vasel to know what kind of game it is.
Sometimes I see games having time per player noted. That usually means that the downtime is (n-1)*time per player. For example in a 5 player game that takes 30 minutes per player it means the downtime is 2 hours ((5-1)*30 minutes)!!! I usually stay away from those games.
So funny. It did happened to me twice. Having to explain where the game came from, since I've just bought a game, and she cleared remember wasn't the one I brought to the table. It wasn't funny at the time though.
Card size for card sleeves
You touched on it in the video, actually. Mechanisms. Generally speaking a tabletopper who can speak 'Gamerese' can suss out the mechanisms of a game by reading the back, but some games can describe their gameplay very cryptically. An easy, intelligible iconography system depicting 'Deckbuilding', 'Set Collecting' or 'Dudesonamap' would be a handy guide for gamers who are relatively new to the hobby or those who are seeking a specific combination of mechanisms for their next game purchase.
Also, removing a patch of drywall and installing a false panel that matches the color of the rest of your wall is the game-hiding method I've found works best. Requires less anesthetic, too.
Rules complexity. When I've bought a few games on my way to a game group (generally when I buy them honestly) it's nice to know if the rules are a bit complicated and I need to take it home first and learn them ahead of time, or if they're straight forward and just get going.
I would love to have some kind of best of number of players. 2 - 8 players and than best with 3. Or the sweet number of players.
If it is Colorblind friendly or not.
Beginner, intermediate, and advanced players. Mostly to help the mass market gamers realize that Game of Thrones isn't just a Monopoly variant, but also that Ticket To Ride only takes a bit more to learn than they are familiar with. Also, just how many happy onions are inside the box?
table space needed to set up and play the game
Card dimensions would be great to know which sleeves to buy. Also, if the box could still properly hold said cards when sleeved
If I had someplace near me where I could actually go look at games, I think I would want to see something identifying abstract or thematic, game complexity, and the main mechanisms. If it's a cooperative, worker placement, deck builder, with multi-use cards, and a touch of area control and set collection thrown in because the designer can't make a game without area control and set collection, I don't really need to see all of that on the box. Language dependency would also be nice to know, along with the language it is dependent on. Atlantis rising, I'm talking about you.
Rules Length based solely on number of words.
My first thought, before you even said it, was game mechanisms. I think that would be useful. I do wonder though, if you put too much technical jargon on the box, whether that might scare away new gamers who might not know what all of that means. I think therefore a "traffic light" system with perhaps green for gateway etc. might work well too.
I'd love to see the "Weight" of the game (not in pounds or kilograms, but in the boardgamegeek.com sense of brain-smashing complexity). Actually, that might be a good way to organize board games... Love Letter and Tsuro to the left, World in Flames and Star Fleet Battles to the right.
Also, try saying "Mike & Iconized" aloud. I don't know when that term will come in handy (icons of candy types, perhaps?), but I hope it does, because it's inexplicably fun to say.
Mike & Ike candy?
I'd like to se the 3 icons for age, player count and time more detailed. For instance, age-info could be replaced with some kind of rating system similar to PEGI, ESRB or MPAA ratings specifying WHY it is recommended for a specific age. For player count-info, instead of having a 1-5 player count it should specify that it is a game for 2 teams with 1-2 player with a solo variant and neutral player variant when playing with odd number of players). The time-info could specify the amount of downtime in relation to actual playing time, but also (as you mentioned) teaching time, set up/tear down-time and time for first time play vs repeated plays.
Other than that there could be icons that specify winning conditions (last to be eliminated, first to cross the finishing line, most points after 8 rounds and so on).
Another thought is to have an icon showing if most of the game play happens "on the table" (i.e. the information needed to make decisions is mostly visible to everyone), "over the table" (i.e. you need to read the other players and pick up on their verbal clues or body language to make decisions) or "under the table" (i.e. backstabbing, alliance building and other secret information that is out of your control). Could possibly be a combination of any of these three.
Hey Chaz! You mentioned it in your video and I have seen this in an online store as opposed to a boardgame box itself: an icon for language-independent game material. As I am French and I live in Germany, and my gaming group is mostly made of French expatriates like me, we tend to stay away from games with too much German text even though we all speak the language. So I find it extremely practical to be able to order games from that store and now that I will only need to find the French rules online just by looking at this type of icon. However I am not sure this would be so useful as a printed indication on the box itself since cases like me are a rare exception on the market. I know a French guy working as "games librarian" who is trying to build his own classification system with icons, color-coding and all. It tries to summarize the type of game, main mechanisms, material, etc. Mostly useful for games libraries I guess but still on the topic you have raised, I suppose? The same guy also puts up a lots of "videorules" (ala "watch it played") and explains his system on his web site. But it's in French. Well maybe Google can translate it for you if you are really interested... here it is: www.videoregles.net/article/ludopro-systeme-de-classement-et-d-etiquetage-de-jeux
Thanks for all your video contributions!
I would like to see an icon that communicates how far the other icons are stretching the truth. For example, is the listed play time a complete fabrication or just mostly wrong? Is the "2-5 players" icon accurate or will playing with more than 4 result in multiple suicides?
Not to brag, but I have an eight year old that can play (and win) games as complex as Orleans or Trajan. This presents a challenge, however, with the age recommendations. The ages listed on games seem to primarily focus on game complexity, which is essentially moot to me. What I do care about however, is if the content is age appropriate (stuff like gore, sexualized imagery, etc...) I wish they divorced the game complexity from the age recommendations and included something to indicate mature themes.
David Allen that's a very interesting point. Maybe an annotation under the age recommendation stating if it's for complexity OR theme friendliness
My understanding is that the age recommendations are usually driven by safety regulations. For example, if the company stamps a box "6 or older," then they don't have to worry about making the pieces too large for a 3-year-old to swallow. As a result, it isn't just you--the age recommendations are largely irrelevant for most parents.
Case in point - I was interested in getting the new 51st State master set. The box says "14+" and also has the "not suitable for children under three due to choking hazards" icon on the back. Imperial Settlers says "10+" and as far as I can tell (without playing either game), they're about even in complexity. The problem I have is that especially in a card driven game, I don't know what is on all those cards. If there's even a couple cards that show gruesome violence or have a reference to a post-apocalyptic brothel or something, I don't really want to bring it home to play with the kids. I know my kids can handle the complexity, but the packaging does nothing to tell me if it's safe content-wise. These age recommendations appear to take both complexity AND content into account and that frankly makes them arbitrary and useless to me.
David Allen Seems like we need ESRP ratings for games! '14+ for difficulty and mature themes (violence and sexuality)' would be more helpful than a simple age rating.
Hi, Chaz! Is there any way to somehow create a list of your videos on this channel which have NOT appeared on the Dice Tower in any way, so that those who watch the DT can more easily find the content they haven't seen?
I'd just like to get those three icons standardized to actually mean something.
Number of players? 2 to 4 says Star wars Rebellion... only the "4" is just actually playing 2 players, split into two each.
Flick em up plays up to 10! Only it's really a 2 player game with false info to make you believe you can play with more. Split the meeples amongsts the players and argue amongst yourselves to know how you should play... by that logic, one could play Agricola with 10 people. Just split the two wooden discs between a team of two people... Or the game plays 2 to 4! But to play 2, you have to use an alternate set of rules which turns the game into an affair so mediocre no one should even bother with it.
Age recommended? Only half the games out there list 14+ just to avoid paying for the rights to put it below that age in some jurisdictions (below 14 requires testing to see of the game, considered a toy, is suitable for the age group listed). The 14+ age recommended is not indicative of anything.
Play time? Play time per player is already an improvement, but those are rare and few. Average play time of an hour listed? I expect anywhere between 45 minutes and 2 hours...
So the icons should be:
Time "per player" (and not global time),
Number of players AND best with X number of players,
The REAL recommended age.
A "rules complexity" icon should also be there. Because sometimes i want a super complex, meaty game... and other times i want a simple quick game. When i find a game that looks good for sale, i can't go to bgg and read reviews about it or watch Tom Vasel to know what kind of game it is.
Sometimes I see games having time per player noted. That usually means that the downtime is (n-1)*time per player. For example in a 5 player game that takes 30 minutes per player it means the downtime is 2 hours ((5-1)*30 minutes)!!! I usually stay away from those games.
So funny. It did happened to me twice. Having to explain where the game came from, since I've just bought a game, and she cleared remember wasn't the one I brought to the table. It wasn't funny at the time though.