OMG Luis, that was the best demo video w/ 2 different styles and explanation on pin up and pin down, I recently had my pro shop drill a ball for me and I didn't tell him what I wanted, he drilled it pin down, my style is like you Luis, I'm almost 60 and never had a ball pin down, I absolutely love it, I wish I had learned pin down years ago, thank you!
This may be the first time someone made sense of pin up/pin down--thank you! It's tiring to hear "pin down hooks sooner", "pin up hooks later". Explaining it in terms of Rg and Diff. makes so much more sense! I found it fascinating though, to see that pin down worked better for you as a "balanced" bowler, where revs and speed balanced each other out and neither were dominant over the other, as opposed to Chris, whose higher rev rate and speed, was clearly more suited to a pin up. That would seem to indicate that rev rate affects both Rg and Diff. So check me on this please: Chris' increased ball speed+his loft+ pin down raising Rg= Chris' ball pushed further down the one than he needed it to. Chris' higher rev rate+ pin down lowering Diff., actually made the ball fight his rev rate, and clearly the ball won and even his higher rev rate, didn't give him the back end shape he needed. I'm guessing that because you are more "balanced" in terms of rev and speed, moving left was really all you needed to do, to make the pin down ball work for you. I'm also guessing that a pin down ball might therefore also be a good option for a lower rev or lower speed bowler too. What are your thoughts about this? Last, and here's an idea for a vid on combatting urethane carry down: if pin down raises the Rg but lowers the Diff., would a bowler using a pin down ball, with straighter angles, be able to overcome urethane carry down? I'm thinking that a pin down ball would work with the carry down, rather than fighting it as a pin up ball would. What's your take on that? Thank you
I also have a pin down Zen. I agree that it hooks much later, but I wouldn't say it hook less for me. Big difference I see is how the ball finishes through the pins. I see much less deflection with the pin down, and I tend to get more pin carry. Love the videos Luis, keep up the good work and positive vibes!
I'm the opposite. Pin down will give me alot of 10 pins. Even when I'm high flush. Sometimes it's fine but I usually get screwed over when using pin down. If I need more length I just change surface. My go to is a pin over the bridge or Slightly to the right of ring finger.
6:27 Incredible spare Lou! I guess you are a bowler after all. 🤣 Here is one of the simplest and best descriptions I have read on pin down vs. pin up and it seems to agree with what you are trying to teach us: "Pin Down Drilling" This type of drilling has an effect of promoting more total hook and less entry angle. Helpful for: Lower rev players Higher ball speeds Bowling on a heavy oiled or longer length patterns Looking for a more gradual hook "Pin Up Drilling" This type of drilling has an effect of promoting less total hook and more entry angle Helpful for Higher rev players Slower ball speeds Bowling on a lighter oiled or shorter length patterns Looking for a sharper hook
fantastic video, with being rev dom old guy and low ball speed, i just had Hustle USA drilled pin down. omg. it is what l needed to get it down the lane
I have a idol cosmos and an RST x2 pin down, and i placed 5th in a sweeper with my cosmos the day I drilled it!! I use pin down to try and prevent over reaction off of wet/dry shots!
Another great video by Lou. Interesring to me that my pin up ball forces me way left but Lou was playing his pin up much straighter. Since I just started bowling this summer I bought 3 different balls with different drilling. I wanted to see what types of shape the different balls would make. It turns out that my pin up and right is my best ball (229 last week in league). I have one drilled pin up mid and the shape is a bit less aggressive. I also have a pin down Asym and that ball is very round and continuous but being Asym I wonder if I should have drilled it pin up instead.
I'm currently bowling with a hammer emerald vibe ball weight a lil under 15lbs. With pin down since it's a asymmetrical ball. And I have a motiv pride with pin down. And I use the new ocean vibe ball pin down. I've bowled good with the emerald and ocean balls lately. My issue is I feel I haven't found the right ball for me. It's so many to choose from. I'm looking at the hammer scorpion sting,stinger, and envy. The motiv mystic jackal and empire. And also roto hustle rap or the wine balls. I'm a left handed bowler. And my rev rate isn't high and my ball speed is usually between 12 to 16mph. Over the last 3 weeks I've bowled several 220 plus games with the ocean and emerald vibe balls. What ball would be a good choice to add to what I already have. I also have a Brunswick prism hybrid and hammer reaper. The reaper I can't find any stats on it. It seems to be a pearl but it's that old of a ball. But at this time my main 3 balls are hammer emerald vibe and ocean and motiv pride ball. I love watching your videos they are so informative. And you have one of the most consistent ball releases I've seen online ever. I've posted some of my scores on my Facebook and on lane talk bowling app. I do have a few practice videos on my RUclips using both the ocean and emerald vibe balls. Bowled a 264 last Friday with the hammer emerald vibe ball. That's like my highest game since I bowled a 297 a few years ago. And I do think I might get my 1st 300 game this league year with the emerald ball.
Since you're lefty I would highly recommend the Storm !Q Tour Solid. Prob the most control ball on the market and as a lefty you def want that shape in your bag
shoulda reset the surfaces on both balls, factory "4k fast" is super inconsistent. the pinup one looked more like 2k, the pin down one looked more like 5k
Just got a Night Road and had it drilled strong. This is by far the best bowling ball i have purchased this year. Love the look and motion of this ball. Smells great to. I used it in League a day after i drilled it and shot my highest score in league. 266 game high 677 three game series. With handicap the high game was 304. 😁
Lou. Love all your videos. I was wondering if you could start telling us your feet and eye positions, so that when you move left or right we have a starting point of reference. Thanks again keep the videos coming.
Good video Luis. Our bowling styles are very similar. I have a Dark Code and X-2 from doing the exchanges. After watching this video, I’m considering having my Dark Code drilled pin down. What is your pin down layout on asymmetrical? Thanks
Thanks for the reply. After struggling to find the correct ball this morning in league (Jackal LE and then Trend 2) I rolled my pin down Zen for the last game this and scored well with a 240 something. The first two balls were just to inconsistent. As you always say, finding the right ball (tool) for the job. My Zen is my first pin down ball and I really liked the ball motion. Thanks again.
The only pun down ball I have is the Gem, spesifically bc I want it to be nore versatile. The smoother the ball on the fresh, the easier it will be for me to control, and with it being as early as it is I feel like it's a better move. And then I'm also provably gonna drill a pin down purple hammer
Hey, can one of you guys bowl for me on league? I'd like to win at least one game this year. We don't look alike but I don't know how much they pay attention to me anyway. And lunch is on me afterward.
Yes, I will take the explanations given plus the examples of lane play into consideration the next time I bowl. This is why....... So 4 days ago i had an Idol Helios drilled pin down. Side note everything else I have is pin up. Initially I was thinking ahead and had it drilled this way because I wanted a new shape for the challenge patterns in my local winter scratch League or at least when we get to that portion of the league but for now in the bowling I have done with it in the 4 days have been exclusively on house shots.... and "I haven't got a consistent strike path with this lay out yet". I've been rolling it straighter and closer to the gutter than the pin up equipment. but yet to obtain much success...My roll is smooth. Some where in-between you both closer to you Luis slow feet big, swing, lots of balance able to repeat shots. So Thanks for the knowledge I will try to open my angles up with a straighter, forward ball motion in mind and try to see if it sets to the break point properly, for a consistent reaction to maintain higher scores.
My hyroad x is pin down like your pin down night road . Pin under my middle finger and did 1500-3000-p5000d by hand and it hooks smoother then it did out of box, while my IQ tour solid (my second IQ tour solid while it was number 9 for my dad and is the only one that is drilled pin up the pin on my first IQ tour solid was like my hyroad x but more to the right so it is not under my middle finger) and is at 3000 trucut so it is perfect to ball down to.
I was thinking of plugging and Redrilling my hyroad x (currently it's pin up with the bridge cracked) to pin down. Hopefully it does compliment my iq tour solid
As a high rev player, I definitely prefer stronger drills for being further right and favor pin down or in between pin-up/down when I'm trying to get left of 4th arrow because many balls burn too much energy otherwise.
so when I start with a 45 x 4 x30 layout on the fresh when lanes transition and everyone goes left I switch to the 45x2-3/4 x 30 and move a little right away from all the traffic and light them up. Note: both balls are Camo's
2-3/4 pin to pap is crazy. 3-3/8 pin to pap is max flare. Meaning that is as strong as the ball can get. You actually start to lose dynamics when you go under 3-3/8
@@roscoepretlowiv7959 Yes same as when you go to a longer PAP you just rolling the ball on a different AXIS it will roll more like urethane with more back end and still hit like resin try it out
@@helenb2504 I mean I know about short pin layouts. It's basically all Mikey Pinel talks about. They don't really match up with high rev rate players. I'm around 580. I just buy urethane instead of making a ball do something it's not intended to do. However, that's just my perspective. I also don't bowl on house shots, so yeah.
Luis, what is your opinion on pin down asym bowling balls? My entire arsenal is pin up currently and I just purchased a reality that I’m going to have drilled pin down. My PSO said he doesn’t mix well with pin down equipment for his game, but he has guys who roll exclusively pin down. Just want more opinions is all
Hey Luis what do you think of having two balls with the same core in the arsenal I have an infinite physix and am thinking of getting a proton. I have a reality but I haven’t really gotten along with it
one of them was 4k fast out the box and the other was 4k fast by hand. The point of the video was how the flare rings change based on the layout. even if both looked exactly the same surface wise the results will be the same
@@LuisNapoles i disagree with this. The flare would look the same, but surface creates the majority of ball motion. The lower flare on the pin down should have produced less overall hook, but because the ball was shiny, it got through the fronts cleaner and had a much stronger backend reaction. Opposite of what the layout should have created. I think this will cause people to misunderstand exactly what's happening with the layouts. I think a remake with both surfaces exactly the same would show you both moving right with the pin down and left with the pin up... Although it would only be 1-2 boards different i think... If that...
2 3/4 will probably not shape and either have a very long hook phase and have no energy left down lane or just flop in the heads and hook early so you get no back end shape Don't drill balls with 2 ³/⁴ pin to pap...
@@joshg218 Sorry you have the wrong Idea the ball will roll like pin down ( smaller flares) shape like urethane with more back end and same resin hit I average 230 with this drill and had 5 300 with it last season, and I'm 60 years young with 40 years bowling experience. Another way to look at it it is the same 5/8" difference from 3-3/8 to a 4" pin as to 2-3/4 just rolling on a different axis. And the main result is you will be able to play more right longer
@@helenb2504 I had a ball misdrilled to a 2.5in pin with similar drill angle and val numbers to your drilling.. the ball never transitions properly. Technology has changed much since I was a Junior as well. 20+ years ago we all had 3.5-4in pins. I'm at 4.5-4.75in today and looking to probably start drilling longer because equipment is so strong. A 2.5in pin goes one of two ways.. it is so close to the pap that the ball transitions well before the end of the pattern and the ball rolls straight when it sees the dry or it keeps flaring, and never transitions if there is enough oil and speed. I had a dark code that flared 3/4 the surface of the ball but never changed direction down the lane. The urethane shape you speak of is poor ball roll.
@@joshg218 Shape is a preference I like to play straighter and have my power at the pins not wasted trying to get to the pocket I average 230 with this layout so it works real well for ME. I agree nothing is for all bowlers but their is a misconception of layouts shorter than 3-3/8 and even Mo Pinal has short pin layouts so they must work!
I am a bit confused as every video I have ever seen have said that pin down read the lane earlier and are smoother because some of the energy is bled in the front part of the lane leaving less energy to hook the ball down lane. They say pin up go longer, but snap more because more energy Is stored until the weight block stabilizes and takes over at the end. They say the overall hook is similar, but just in different parts of the lane. When I drill pin down, my ball reads sooner and is smoother than all my pin up equipment...it is why I prefer pin down over pin up. I like the smoother more controllable shape. For me, my pin down hook less than pin up.
Because they are wrong. I’m sorry, physics is physics. Watch Radical’s videos explaining their layouts, along with pin up/pin down before and after drilling specs. Every time, the differential goes down when they have a pin down drilling. Something can’t flare less and hook earlier, if all the other factors are the same.
Or could it be the surface on his coverstocks as they say coverstock is 70% of reaction. The shinier ball I’ll naturally store more energy until later. This is his pin down ball. The duller ball is pin up so it is reading the lane sooner because it’s surface is so much more porous at a lower grit?
The science is the science regardless of the surface prep (one of them is 4k fast out the factory and the other was by hand) In the video and in the thumbnail I show the flare rings of both balls that have nothing to do with surface BTW. The pin down one the flare rings are much much tighter together than the pin up one
@@LuisNapoles I agree that yes, flair rings have nothing to do with coverstock. Flair deals with the core and how it is out of balance and then rights itself. The more out of balance the core is, the more flair you will get which will result in more hook- this is the differential. But coverstock does factor into how early a ball starts to pick up the lane and hook. That is why you can adjust the coverstock to fit your game or your bowling alley conditions. Just like most urethane doesn't flair, BUT "it hooks at your feet."
I'm getting a Night Road and all my balls that I have is pin up (don't know the numbers) but I want to try pin down on the Night Road. I'm a stroker with balanced stats. I hope someone can answer me.
Most of my balls are pin down...that longer smoother read is really good for my game. Storm Nova; Idol Helios, and Radical Intel Special Edition are about the only pin up in my aresenal.
Every pin up ball I’ve drilled goes longer because it puts my pin 5 inches to my PAP. Every ball I drill with pin under puts my pin to PAP 4 to 4.5 inches makes my ball reacted sooner and smoother. So in my experience, this is completely wrong.
the pin to pap is what's happening there not the pin up vs down. If you drill them the same but the VAL angle is different you'll see that the up one is earlier and the down one is longer. this is science not an opinion.
OMG Luis, that was the best demo video w/ 2 different styles and explanation on pin up and pin down, I recently had my pro shop drill a ball for me and I didn't tell him what I wanted, he drilled it pin down, my style is like you Luis, I'm almost 60 and never had a ball pin down, I absolutely love it, I wish I had learned pin down years ago, thank you!
You're welcome ! I'm glad you liked it !
I'm glad you explained the difference between pin up and pin under correctly to your viewers. A lot of people are confused about that.
So much misinformation out there!
This may be the first time someone made sense of pin up/pin down--thank you!
It's tiring to hear "pin down hooks sooner", "pin up hooks later".
Explaining it in terms of Rg and Diff. makes so much more sense!
I found it fascinating though, to see that pin down worked better for you as a "balanced" bowler, where revs and speed balanced each other out and neither were dominant over the other, as opposed to Chris, whose higher rev rate and speed, was clearly more suited to a pin up.
That would seem to indicate that rev rate affects both Rg and Diff.
So check me on this please:
Chris' increased ball speed+his loft+ pin down raising Rg= Chris' ball pushed further down the one than he needed it to.
Chris' higher rev rate+ pin down lowering Diff., actually made the ball fight his rev rate, and clearly the ball won and even his higher rev rate, didn't give him the back end shape he needed.
I'm guessing that because you are more "balanced" in terms of rev and speed, moving left was really all you needed to do, to make the pin down ball work for you.
I'm also guessing that a pin down ball might therefore also be a good option for a lower rev or lower speed bowler too.
What are your thoughts about this?
Last, and here's an idea for a vid on combatting urethane carry down: if pin down raises the Rg but lowers the Diff., would a bowler using a pin down ball, with straighter angles, be able
to overcome urethane carry down?
I'm thinking that a pin down ball would work with the carry down, rather than fighting it as a pin up ball would.
What's your take on that?
Thank you
I think you're spot on! As far as following urethane I typically prefer stronger pin up drill asym solids to follow that nasty transition!
I also have a pin down Zen. I agree that it hooks much later, but I wouldn't say it hook less for me. Big difference I see is how the ball finishes through the pins. I see much less deflection with the pin down, and I tend to get more pin carry. Love the videos Luis, keep up the good work and positive vibes!
Positive vibes always! 🤙 pin down zen was money!
I like pin down too better.
got a pin up Zen - can't use it on my house shot. Hooks too much for me.
I'm the opposite. Pin down will give me alot of 10 pins. Even when I'm high flush. Sometimes it's fine but I usually get screwed over when using pin down. If I need more length I just change surface. My go to is a pin over the bridge or Slightly to the right of ring finger.
Because the 2 houses I bowl in are drier 4 of my 6 balls are pin down. Shot 265 with a pin down Brunswick Twist. Right tool, right time. Good video!
That’s it man!!!
6:27 Incredible spare Lou! I guess you are a bowler after all. 🤣
Here is one of the simplest and best descriptions I have read on pin down vs. pin up and it seems to agree with what you are trying to teach us:
"Pin Down Drilling"
This type of drilling has an effect of promoting more total hook and less entry angle.
Helpful for:
Lower rev players
Higher ball speeds
Bowling on a heavy oiled or longer length patterns
Looking for a more gradual hook
"Pin Up Drilling"
This type of drilling has an effect of promoting less total hook and more entry angle
Helpful for
Higher rev players
Slower ball speeds
Bowling on a lighter oiled or shorter length patterns
Looking for a sharper hook
I’m glad it helps!
What about high speeds and high revs what would you say is more suitable
Thank the Lord that someone ACCURATELY explained with pin up/pin down does on this wonderful Sunday! 🙌🏻
Glad it could help!
Great video! You did a real good job of explaining and displaying the difference between the two.
Great spare!
I appreciate that!
This video is a good one. It explains the difference between pin up & pin down in a simplest way.So,many could easily understand. Great job!👍
Thanks so much!
fantastic video, with being rev dom old guy and low ball speed, i just had Hustle USA drilled pin down. omg. it is what l needed to get it down the lane
Awesome Charles!
Excellent explanation and demo of the forthcoming Night Road. Much appreciated!
Very welcome! I hope it helped!
My PSO drilled my Golden Jackal pin down. Said it would be that different motion I need, and it's a pearl. I absolutely love it
Awesome!!!!
Such a good vid...with Chris (different styles and different ball reactions)!
Glad you like them! Def more to come with him!
Love the purple diamonds in the engravings
Same!!!!
I have a idol cosmos and an RST x2 pin down, and i placed 5th in a sweeper with my cosmos the day I drilled it!! I use pin down to try and prevent over reaction off of wet/dry shots!
I like that!
Another great video by Lou. Interesring to me that my pin up ball forces me way left but Lou was playing his pin up much straighter. Since I just started bowling this summer I bought 3 different balls with different drilling. I wanted to see what types of shape the different balls would make. It turns out that my pin up and right is my best ball (229 last week in league). I have one drilled pin up mid and the shape is a bit less aggressive. I also have a pin down Asym and that ball is very round and continuous but being Asym I wonder if I should have drilled it pin up instead.
I appreciate that!!!
I'm currently bowling with a hammer emerald vibe ball weight a lil under 15lbs. With pin down since it's a asymmetrical ball. And I have a motiv pride with pin down. And I use the new ocean vibe ball pin down. I've bowled good with the emerald and ocean balls lately. My issue is I feel I haven't found the right ball for me. It's so many to choose from. I'm looking at the hammer scorpion sting,stinger, and envy. The motiv mystic jackal and empire. And also roto hustle rap or the wine balls. I'm a left handed bowler. And my rev rate isn't high and my ball speed is usually between 12 to 16mph. Over the last 3 weeks I've bowled several 220 plus games with the ocean and emerald vibe balls. What ball would be a good choice to add to what I already have. I also have a Brunswick prism hybrid and hammer reaper. The reaper I can't find any stats on it. It seems to be a pearl but it's that old of a ball. But at this time my main 3 balls are hammer emerald vibe and ocean and motiv pride ball. I love watching your videos they are so informative. And you have one of the most consistent ball releases I've seen online ever. I've posted some of my scores on my Facebook and on lane talk bowling app. I do have a few practice videos on my RUclips using both the ocean and emerald vibe balls. Bowled a 264 last Friday with the hammer emerald vibe ball. That's like my highest game since I bowled a 297 a few years ago. And I do think I might get my 1st 300 game this league year with the emerald ball.
Since you're lefty I would highly recommend the Storm !Q Tour Solid. Prob the most control ball on the market and as a lefty you def want that shape in your bag
shoulda reset the surfaces on both balls, factory "4k fast" is super inconsistent. the pinup one looked more like 2k, the pin down one looked more like 5k
Hindsight
Just got a Night Road and had it drilled strong. This is by far the best bowling ball i have purchased this year. Love the look and motion of this ball. Smells great to. I used it in League a day after i drilled it and shot my highest score in league. 266 game high 677 three game series. With handicap the high game was 304. 😁
I'm glad!
Lou. Love all your videos. I was wondering if you could start telling us your feet and eye positions, so that when you move left or right we have a starting point of reference. Thanks again keep the videos coming.
I used to do that before and would get blasted in the comments if I said I was standing 25 and hit 24 by accident lol so I stopped
Good video Luis. Our bowling styles are very similar. I have a Dark Code and X-2 from doing the exchanges. After watching this video, I’m considering having my Dark Code drilled pin down. What is your pin down layout on asymmetrical? Thanks
For me it would be 30x4.5x70 maybe a larger drill angle actually like 60x4.5x70
Thanks for the reply. After struggling to find the correct ball this morning in league (Jackal LE and then Trend 2) I rolled my pin down Zen for the last game this and scored well with a 240 something. The first two balls were just to inconsistent. As you always say, finding the right ball (tool) for the job. My Zen is my first pin down ball and I really liked the ball motion. Thanks again.
The only pun down ball I have is the Gem, spesifically bc I want it to be nore versatile. The smoother the ball on the fresh, the easier it will be for me to control, and with it being as early as it is I feel like it's a better move. And then I'm also provably gonna drill a pin down purple hammer
Should be good !
Hey, can one of you guys bowl for me on league? I'd like to win at least one game this year. We don't look alike but I don't know how much they pay attention to me anyway. And lunch is on me afterward.
aight bet!
Luis, you're judging the layout on balls that you would normally use on the burn. Could using them on fresh oil skew the results?
No really!
I have a pin down Roto Grip Gem. I'm a senior with low revs and medium speed.
Nice!
Yes, I will take the explanations given plus the examples of lane play into consideration the next time I bowl.
This is why....... So 4 days ago i had an Idol Helios drilled pin down.
Side note everything else I have is pin up.
Initially I was thinking ahead and had it drilled this way because I wanted a new shape for the challenge patterns in my local winter scratch League or at least when we get to that portion of the league but for now in the bowling I have done with it in the 4 days have been exclusively on house shots.... and "I haven't got a consistent strike path with this lay out yet". I've been rolling it straighter and closer to the gutter than the pin up equipment. but yet to obtain much success...My roll is smooth. Some where in-between you both closer to you Luis slow feet big, swing, lots of balance able to repeat shots. So Thanks for the knowledge I will try to open my angles up with a straighter, forward ball motion in mind and try to see if it sets to the break point properly, for a consistent reaction to maintain higher scores.
If you continue to not find the right path to the pocket with it I might suggest changing the surface a little bit!
@@LuisNapoles Correct I'll give another go and see if I can have success. If not I can see some polish coming into play....
Just drilled a pin down Night Road. First roll will be Tuesday 10-3.
How did it roll?!?
Is the ball polished?
My hyroad x is pin down like your pin down night road . Pin under my middle finger and did 1500-3000-p5000d by hand and it hooks smoother then it did out of box, while my IQ tour solid (my second IQ tour solid while it was number 9 for my dad and is the only one that is drilled pin up the pin on my first IQ tour solid was like my hyroad x but more to the right so it is not under my middle finger) and is at 3000 trucut so it is perfect to ball down to.
I was thinking of plugging and Redrilling my hyroad x (currently it's pin up with the bridge cracked) to pin down. Hopefully it does compliment my iq tour solid
Nice stuff!!!
As a high rev player, I definitely prefer stronger drills for being further right and favor pin down or in between pin-up/down when I'm trying to get left of 4th arrow because many balls burn too much energy otherwise.
I heard that!
Thank you guy’s, it was really helpful 👍🏻
Glad it helped!
so when I start with a 45 x 4 x30 layout on the fresh when lanes transition and everyone goes left I switch to the 45x2-3/4 x 30 and move a little right away from all the traffic and light them up. Note: both balls are Camo's
2-3/4 pin to pap is crazy. 3-3/8 pin to pap is max flare. Meaning that is as strong as the ball can get. You actually start to lose dynamics when you go under 3-3/8
I think I’m gonna start changing some of my layouts
@@roscoepretlowiv7959 Yes same as when you go to a longer PAP you just rolling the ball on a different AXIS it will roll more like urethane with more back end and still hit like resin try it out
yes give this layout a try it will produce smaller flares like pin down but will roll like urethane but with more pop and hit like resin
@@helenb2504 I mean I know about short pin layouts. It's basically all Mikey Pinel talks about. They don't really match up with high rev rate players. I'm around 580. I just buy urethane instead of making a ball do something it's not intended to do. However, that's just my perspective. I also don't bowl on house shots, so yeah.
The RG on this ball is already high, so with it being pin down it’s definitely going to had OD length. Great video
Thanks!!!
Luis, what is your opinion on pin down asym bowling balls? My entire arsenal is pin up currently and I just purchased a reality that I’m going to have drilled pin down. My PSO said he doesn’t mix well with pin down equipment for his game, but he has guys who roll exclusively pin down. Just want more opinions is all
I like them!
Hey Luis what do you think of having two balls with the same core in the arsenal I have an infinite physix and am thinking of getting a proton. I have a reality but I haven’t really gotten along with it
Do it !!!
I want to drill a pin down Dark Code when I am able to bowl again.
Do it!!!
@@LuisNapoles I need to replace it and I think pin down will allow me to play even deeper with it
So, what's with the shinny ball versus the dull ball. Doesn't that wipe out the validity of the pin location test?
one of them was 4k fast out the box and the other was 4k fast by hand. The point of the video was how the flare rings change based on the layout. even if both looked exactly the same surface wise the results will be the same
@@LuisNapoles i disagree with this. The flare would look the same, but surface creates the majority of ball motion. The lower flare on the pin down should have produced less overall hook, but because the ball was shiny, it got through the fronts cleaner and had a much stronger backend reaction. Opposite of what the layout should have created. I think this will cause people to misunderstand exactly what's happening with the layouts. I think a remake with both surfaces exactly the same would show you both moving right with the pin down and left with the pin up... Although it would only be 1-2 boards different i think... If that...
Will the pin down reaction apply regardless of cover stock?
Yes
Very informative, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Cool video talk tech bowling luis
Thanks!
@@LuisNapoles your welcome
Try a 45x2-3/4 x 30 layout this ball will also have small flares will roll like urethane ( with more back end) and hit like resin
2 3/4 will probably not shape and either have a very long hook phase and have no energy left down lane or just flop in the heads and hook early so you get no back end shape
Don't drill balls with 2 ³/⁴ pin to pap...
Yea I wanna drill more short pin stuff
@@joshg218 Sorry you have the wrong Idea the ball will roll like pin down ( smaller flares) shape like urethane with more back end and same resin hit I average 230 with this drill and had 5 300 with it last season, and I'm 60 years young with 40 years bowling experience. Another way to look at it it is the same 5/8" difference from 3-3/8 to a 4" pin as to 2-3/4 just rolling on a different axis. And the main result is you will be able to play more right longer
@@helenb2504 I had a ball misdrilled to a 2.5in pin with similar drill angle and val numbers to your drilling.. the ball never transitions properly.
Technology has changed much since I was a Junior as well. 20+ years ago we all had 3.5-4in pins. I'm at 4.5-4.75in today and looking to probably start drilling longer because equipment is so strong.
A 2.5in pin goes one of two ways.. it is so close to the pap that the ball transitions well before the end of the pattern and the ball rolls straight when it sees the dry or it keeps flaring, and never transitions if there is enough oil and speed.
I had a dark code that flared 3/4 the surface of the ball but never changed direction down the lane.
The urethane shape you speak of is poor ball roll.
@@joshg218 Shape is a preference I like to play straighter and have my power at the pins not wasted trying to get to the pocket I average 230 with this layout so it works real well for ME. I agree nothing is for all bowlers but their is a misconception of layouts shorter than 3-3/8 and even Mo Pinal has short pin layouts so they must work!
I seem to match up way better with pin down layouts. Especially pearls. I just get better ball reaction with pin down. I also have lower rev rate.
That’s all that matters
I am a bit confused as every video I have ever seen have said that pin down read the lane earlier and are smoother because some of the energy is bled in the front part of the lane leaving less energy to hook the ball down lane. They say pin up go longer, but snap more because more energy Is stored until the weight block stabilizes and takes over at the end. They say the overall hook is similar, but just in different parts of the lane.
When I drill pin down, my ball reads sooner and is smoother than all my pin up equipment...it is why I prefer pin down over pin up. I like the smoother more controllable shape. For me, my pin down hook less than pin up.
Because they are wrong. I’m sorry, physics is physics. Watch Radical’s videos explaining their layouts, along with pin up/pin down before and after drilling specs. Every time, the differential goes down when they have a pin down drilling. Something can’t flare less and hook earlier, if all the other factors are the same.
Or could it be the surface on his coverstocks as they say coverstock is 70% of reaction. The shinier ball I’ll naturally store more energy until later. This is his pin down ball. The duller ball is pin up so it is reading the lane sooner because it’s surface is so much more porous at a lower grit?
The science is the science regardless of the surface prep (one of them is 4k fast out the factory and the other was by hand) In the video and in the thumbnail I show the flare rings of both balls that have nothing to do with surface BTW. The pin down one the flare rings are much much tighter together than the pin up one
@@LuisNapoles I agree that yes, flair rings have nothing to do with coverstock. Flair deals with the core and how it is out of balance and then rights itself. The more out of balance the core is, the more flair you will get which will result in more hook- this is the differential. But coverstock does factor into how early a ball starts to pick up the lane and hook. That is why you can adjust the coverstock to fit your game or your bowling alley conditions. Just like most urethane doesn't flair, BUT "it hooks at your feet."
I'm getting a Night Road and all my balls that I have is pin up (don't know the numbers) but I want to try pin down on the Night Road. I'm a stroker with balanced stats. I hope someone can answer me.
I think it would be good for you! Especially if you have some early friction
Pin down looks super shiny compared to pin up?
Both are 4K fast but pin down was right from factory
Most of my balls are pin down...that longer smoother read is really good for my game. Storm Nova; Idol Helios, and Radical Intel Special Edition are about the only pin up in my aresenal.
Yea I wanna drill more pin down stuff for sure!
I just heard Beef Stu say he is has never drilled a ball pin down. Luis any educated guess why?
I doubt he’s NEVER drilled a ball pin down. Maybe doesn’t now that there’s no weight holes but ever seems no true lol
I doubt he’s NEVER drilled a ball pin down. Maybe doesn’t now that there’s no weight holes but ever seems no true lol
Beef Stu? If that's me that's awesome! 🤣🤣
My pin down dv8 ball that I got as my yt picture flares a ton for pin down.
interesting!
It literally looks like this guy snaps his arm out of place on every frame lol his revs are insane
It’s really effortless for him though!
Ya I don't know how I have an arm left actually lol
Pin down Road balls - the ultimate burn ball?
FACTS!!!
PIN DOWN NIGHT ROAD IT IS!
even though i identify with chris' playstyle more, i need something to get left with and the ball has the letters N-O-A-H in it so yeah xD
Facts!!!!
Need to get him a mic!
I got him one! Stay tuned!
Every pin up ball I’ve drilled goes longer because it puts my pin 5 inches to my PAP. Every ball I drill with pin under puts my pin to PAP 4 to 4.5 inches makes my ball reacted sooner and smoother. So in my experience, this is completely wrong.
the pin to pap is what's happening there not the pin up vs down. If you drill them the same but the VAL angle is different you'll see that the up one is earlier and the down one is longer. this is science not an opinion.
I'm more speed then revs and a typical lefty.
If you’re speed dominant I would advise against pin down but that’s just my suggestion
Motiv Pride pin down... then pride empire pin up
Nice!!
Pin down always
Always?!?
@@LuisNapoles about 90% of the time...can you polish that ball?
@@joseb7351 you can!
@@LuisNapoles was wondering if you were cause everything is 4k fast now
Pin down
Yes
Louis just a tip… pin down realty check… you can thank me later
I think I need to try that!