Juri actually needs her Drive rush or else she'd just get zoned to death. Outiside of Drive rush overhead, she has only grab and Cr. short to open up opponents...Assuming shes in, she needs the threat of DR to keep opponents honest in there zoning, the Devs gave her that for a reason whilst purposely making her have the worst cr. jab distance in the game. It even says at the character select screen that shes meant for close range hence they gave her ways to close the gap. Everything Juri does requires a resource which takes time and positioning.
@@Lordsetsunia when the game first came out I was ratting on Juri. As a Jamie main I just found her normal’s absurdly broken and to a certain extent they are,however, as time went on I found answers to her pressure. I do think she needs a small nerf but I don’t think she’s broken and I do think her drive rush is fine. But Jamie can stuff her drive rush out where other characters can’t.
I think, to add additional more competitive feel: there’s needs to be a harsher punishment for players who one and done (which could be enacted from plat/diamond and higher). To explain, if I one and done an opponent after winning the first game, it should subtract 80 points from me for forfeiting the 2 remaining games. I think making the “one and doner” lose points is better than making the person who stayed gain points falsely. Sidenote: I also find that when I use an ETHERNET cord, this games gives me continuous error codes: whether it’s 50708-10005 or 50607 or 52300 it’s terrible to establish connection man and I play on pc
@@jtsnow4331 Also, consider this. What is juri getting off of her normals outside of sweep (low fwd range) Some characters in this game have safe sweeps or can be safe at a distance, Ryu, Deejay, Marissa. Juri is never safe on sweep so the only way she can knock you down safely is grab or limb into fuha. What do you think about her should be nerfed? I generally want to be open to other perspectives on the matter.
I definitely see some of your points on the ranking system, but I feel like 2% of the playerbase occupying the highest achievable rank is actually a pretty good spread. Despite you saying master rank is easy to achieve, the player distribution seems to say otherwise. The fact that it's further stratified by the MR system gives the most skilled players an even higher ladder to climb, while also giving more casual players a realistic goal to achieve in just getting to master rank. Definitely pros and cons depending on your philosphy in competitive game design, but from a player engagement perspective, SF6 seems to be incredibly successful in player retention. Correlation /= causation, but worth thinking about.
Yeah I guess I just disagree with your framing. I came away with the impression that you think it's strictly a bad thing, in that it takes away from the competitive market while I feel like you haven't really demonstrated why. I see a ranked system that seems to encourage player retention without marketedly harming the top end competitive integrity, so it's kind of a win-win no? Don't we want more casuals pursuing higher ranks(even if the ranks are somewhat illusary)because they feel like their goals are attainable, then hopefully translating into a more dedicated fanbase and getting more serious into the FGC? Online ranks are just pixels at the end of the day, and tournaments are where the real glory lies anyways! @@SonicSol
Eventually over time it will become 3, 4, 5 percent and more people in master while more of the accounts under master stop playing the game. It eventually will saturate. The main thing is Master is already too easy to achieve for anyone who can remotely compete in offline tournaments and it will show more as time goes on
@monsterofvoices exactly the point. Good to keep casuals playing, bad for the competitive aspect of the game. Most who get master literally stop playing.
Rating inflation is pretty normal across games, and that's what seasonal resets are for. Everything is relative. If master rank is easier to reach, then it becomes all about reaching a high MR rating, and that will become the new proxy in which players are assessed for their skill. It's literally just trading a badge for a number in how we're valuing something. And honestly, a direct number is probably more accurate for indicating your skill anyways.@@monsterofvoices
It’s funny that drive impact, the one that people were ultra skeptical about pre-launch, is the only drive mechanic that no one is complaining about being too weak or too strong
@@doctordice2doctordice210it’s a scrub killer mechanic and I love it now. But ironically as OP said, when I first saw both mechanics I thought in practice drive rush was amazing and drive impact would be annoying. If only I had known what was coming.
And on my scrubby/casual level, dudes who play COD and 2K can use drive impact and think they good. When if you put them on SF 5 or 4, they'd be dead in the water.
As a medium level player I completely dislike the drive system It's very hard for me to react to drive impact, especially online I also dislike that it doesn't allow neutral play and instead makes it feel ignorant Drive rush overcomplicates the combos for no reason and just adds more inputs I have to learn Like I said I'm not that good, but I didn't have any problem with SFV and enjoyed it a lot, this game just feels like a massive wall that you have to climb
My idea to fix raw drive rush is to lower the extra block stun to +2 or 0 and keep it +4 on hit to keep the combos. You should be rewarded for opening people up or punishing not for skipping neutral.
Drive impact needs to be immediate. I hate the fact that you can punch / kick the DI to slow it down and still have time to DI yourself. It takes away from defensive options in the game.
The input issues have been maddening since the game came out. I think it was an "Emperor has no clothes" situation where most people were too scared of being a called a scrub for not having good execution. It's funny that a lot of these issues seem to be created from trying to make specials easier, instead they made the game way harder than it needs to be. Is there anything more salt inducing than losing due to an eaten input or random special flying out?
@@thenewkalpagame is for sure hard if you want it to be. The timings in this game are not intuitive at all, the game will literally go slow motion on confirm for combos. You have so many spacings and options. This game is not figured at all, in terms of almost-flawless play. No one has a buttoned up play yet...no one. People just play their game plan and then think their game plan is all there is to fighting games. It’s almost like gatekeeping how you want the game played. Most people play very tight, very close neutral. This game can be tons more options and game plans than people make it out to be. Virtually all players, beyond the top rank, are not very high level mind game players. So they think all there is to this game is straight forward play.
If you are have buffered qcfs, and your opponent jumps at you, it is physically impossible to DP (if you have meter). Even if you end on down forward, you will get a super.
Thank you for saying this. This game has a lot of issues but the FGC is like a cult sometimes, no one csn really come out and complain because somehow we all just decided that SF6 was the greatest fighting game ever made. To deviate from this sentiment is to instantly get dismissed or labeled as a scrub. Hence no one says anything, we just suffer the BS in silence.
@@kye4216 not comparing games I was referring to the way pro players are continuing to play a game they don't enjoy or have issues with just like in 5. both games are whack anyway, 5 & 6.
Finally someone talks about how abysmal the input reader is. There's nothing i hate more in this game than pressing a button and just STANDING THERE as my opponent gets another chance at life or i have to try to reopen then up and don't let me "magically drop" into a negative move. The other thing i hate is just getting the randomest thing from trying to play neutral including a random dp, a FHk, breakdance, a lvl 2 super, a lvl 3 super. Literally didn't even cross my mind to use the move but hey here's a few things we have to keep the game interesting.
Cammy's CA has zero recovery on block or whiff...the fighting aspect of this game is BAD really really BAD, how so many people (who know better) can defend it is beyond me.
I'm not certain we want to be nerfing parry with how the game is right now. Against much of the hyper offensive characters, perfect parry is one of the few things that allow weaker characters to get out of corner or dissuade certain offense options. It does somewhat create rich gets richer for characters like Cammy and Ken, but everyone being able to switch corner situations or have an answer to Marisa punches and Honda headbutts is important for balance between characters. The point about drive rush is completely valid though, Capcom must have been asleep at the wheel and the decision to wait a while year before patching is baffling. Inputs need to be able to be buffered during the freeze frame. Messing with input is unacceptable. Second, I would increase the inactionable time when drive rushing and remove the ability to special cancel normals used directly out of it. This would allow smart players to more reliably stop raw drive rush with a poke normal, or allow them to gamble at a fair risk and attempt to DI if they think the opponent is going to throw out a heavy preemptively.
If you disallow special move cancelling off drive rush normals then you will break tons of characters since most characters only have real blockstring pressure off of a drive rush normal.
As I've told friends I'd be perfectly fine if they removed DR. Capcom went into anime territory by adding it to SF. It feels like they wanted to turn SF into MvsC but changed course and left it in.
I don't really have an opinion on Parry but 1 thing I wanna mention is: If you whiff parry, your drive gauge regeneration will be in cooldown for 4 seconds. This is a risk that most people don't realize.
@@themrfelipe6005 would be a horrible change for the person striking the parry because now you have to guess if you got perfect parried or not instead of continuing your pressure if they didn't
Maximillion said this best, "Every game has bullshit." it does not matter how good a game is it will have something that you will hate but you will stay play despite the hate. I may not like how Max does things when playing games but I will respect this one fact he has said. Every game has something that is completely and utterly bullshit. I know someone is gonna say, "Oh MK 1 doesn't have that!" my response? "Cause nobody has played it for 6 months, watch it'll happen there's gonna be something that people will complain about one day." It's only a matter of time.
I'm saying. People already found out the bs in MK1 wirh cyrax assist and the top tiers. Tekken 8 will come out and people will hate heat. Everyones favorite game is the one they have the most nostalgia for because they're favorite character was probably busted af.
Yeah, I wanted to go hard in this game, but man, I don't like any of the drive mechanics after playing for an extended time. Throw loops either. The game is just not for me in its current state, but SF6 will be around for a very long time, so I don't need to rush. Hopefully, the changes they eventually make will make it more enjoyable for me. If not, there's a lot of other fgs to play. Nice video analysis and breakdown 👌
They need to fix the inputs and expand the wakeup buffer before anything else. If my opponent DIs me on my wakeup and I press DI when I see it, my DI should trigger as soon as I wake up. I shouldn't have to mash it out.
The issue is that drive rush is core to the game. Some moves would have to be reworked. Drive rush for some characters is hard as hell to react to even if your looking out for it and know its coming. Miss and you just gave them a free combo based on strict reaction. Your going to lose turns with drive rushes. Ranks are fine. As long as the system is providing good match ups the ranks don't matter. Just a way to see how your progressing. For the most part with the win bonus in effect your going to jump fast into platinum. That is what causes the discrepancy. It wants to move you into platinum. The average player is so far removed from high level players. High level players are more consistent and also can handle more player styles and matchups. Some people can cook in matches and then play like a gold tier player in other matches.
"The issue is that drive rush is core to the game." Capcom should try not making a fundamentally garbage game then, instead of just making promos and conditioning their fanbase to call everything skill issues. Pros have complained about this game too. It affects everyone, not just low ranks. Fundamentally bad game.
Thing is, people who care about being good at a fg don’t care about the rank and people caring about the rank get what they want out here, with the real struggle beginning with MR. You can consider the system flawed but I don’t think pros even care about it, even in SFV it’s not like pros were Warlord as a requirement, far from it
I think you REALLY undersold the weakness of tap parry 1. Punish counter throw isn’t just 2k damage, it also depletes and entire drive bar AND is a heavy knockdown. So if they throw ur parry you took 2K, lost 1.5 drive, and have to eat whatever meaty they do after cuz you can’t backroll. 2. It can be cancelled into block but ONLY block for those 27 or so frames. This means no re-parry and more importantly NO DRIVE IMPACT. Tap parry is just begging for a wall splat or even stun if you were low on gauge. But even if you’re mid screen and out of throw range if the opponent picks up on you parry tapping after minus frames they can risk much greedier offense after blocking minus moves cuz you committed to 30+ frames of doing nothing.
As someone who would only consider myself an average skilled player the ranking system has left me mad confused. I'm currently in Diamond 3 and I don't think the level of play is consistent sometimes I get players who are knowledgeable in some way of the game and it leads to fun sets other times I just get people who have one strategy and freeze up once you show you can shut it down. This actually made me not want to play ranked and just ask for games in a discord I'm in so I get more consistent games.
You have to realize the people that only run off one strategy usually are players that one and done alot and never finish a ranked set. This would all be avoided if you HAD to play ranked first to 2 instead of giving you the option of leaving after one match.
Diamond is also super weird because it's full of people who already have attained master on multiple characters learning new ones. I'm a 1700-1800ish MR Manon/Dee Jay player that decided to pick up Cammy around the time the AKI patch came out. It was an incredibly easy climb to master for the most part (especially compared to getting Manon there, I'm historically awful with grapplers and I wanted to challenge myself. Still sitting at a 49% win rate with her even with above average MR because of how many Ls I took early on.) but I experienced quite a few losses to other people that had already learned several characters and were just picking up AKI and were doing the same grind up to master. i think they're both flawed to an extent but on top of the issues others have discussed with SF6's ranking system, I miss rank being attached to individual player rather than characters. During the 5 era, I didn't experiment with characters as much as I wanted to because of it, but in retrospect I think I prefer being thrown into the deep end after having gained enough experience to critique my own mistakes rather than the super inconsistent experience that the lower ranks provide where it's a wild crapshoot between people that lack the basic fundamentals of fighting games and people that don't.
For me, the game gets less enjoyable the better I get at it, which is the opposite of what I would normally expect. DR and parry both circumvent neutral in a way that feels bad. Even acknowledging that I got outplayed, it still feels bad when you lose a round because you dared try to take your turn back after blocking something that was -2.
For me or my enjoyment , it depends on my opponent. I typically use -2 or -3 on my attack to send out an ex reversal here and there. Once they respect it, that’s when the mind games start. But I dislike when my jump ins get parried and I hate playing against people who never learn patterns or always mash buttons after being hit or on their minis frames .
That's true for any game tho. Every game will have a meta and a best way to approach the usual game-to-game variance. If there wasn't DR then there were other things that would be considered just as powerful. And if you don't enjoy the act of getting better in this game, maybe you should try something else. I realized I don't want to climber higher than Floor 10 in GG Strive because the game is just so aggro focused and knowledge check-y that I decided to switch to SF6 and I've enjoyed it so much more.
Then don't play predictably. If you mash jab after every minus interaction, I think your opponent is doing a great job parrying you. It's just another defensive option in the long list of changeable defensive options.
Another problem I don't see a lot of people talking about: it's nigh impossible to do a reversal super, if they do a drive action on your wake up (DR or DI), the game will straight out eat your input, and not only that, you'll stop blocking for daring to try to reversal. To fix DR, I'd say it should cost 3 bars to raw DR, just like when you cancel from a move, and cost 1 bar only when the combo counter is running, so it won't affect the combos we already have. Characters like Marisa only have to knock you down once and then you have to guess for your life, even midscreen. Guessed wrong? Now you're in the same scenario again. Tried to Drive reversal? She can block in time and punish you. There are literally no defensive mechanic in this game other than the hail mary tap parry, which is useless if you're in the corner. There's no skill involved anymore, it's just a guessing game in it's current state.
I don’t know if I’m the only person who feels this way but the better I get at this game the more homogeneous and same-y it feels. Like in some games I’ve reached high ranks in, it feels like at high levels you get to really express some creativity in how you play the game. But at high(ish) level play in sf6 it feels like there’s really only one thing to do. Get a poke. Drive cancel that poke. Do your drive cancel combo. Hit super at the end if you have the meter. Rinse wash repeat. Like I keep having this moment as I rank up where I realize over and over that oh, okay, I was trying to be creative but there’s only one thing that consistently works so if I wanna rank up I guess I have to do that. It’s so weird.
@@radfield6089 tbh I didn't really play V much. I understand the argument but most of my SF experience prior was Alpha 3 and 3rd strike, and I do feel like those games feel a little more varied, but I dunno man.
Fellow Alpha 3 player here and yes absolutely! I’ve been saying this exact same thing since SFV days! This new formula of SF that Capcom is pitching to us is so remedial and same-y. Even with character specific attributes such as v-triggers or various DR speeds/frame adv among characters, everyone plays from the same blueprint. Get the knockdown and force instant 50/50 situations with throw loops/strike guesses until you get OD DP’d or you extend the combo to lvl 3 super for the win. And Capcom PURPOSEFULLY implemented this formula for the sole reason to cater to beginners because this allows anyone to play good and get decent results. You don’t need to actually learn what your individual moves do and the risk/reward for using them if you can bypass those risks by skipping neutral with DR, gain plus on block moves for an otherwise negative move, and instantly force your offense on your opponent with 50/50s that leads to a lvl 3 combo for big damage. This is EVERYONE’S gameplan, including Dhalsim. Everyone wants to force offense. Everyone wants to rushdown and get in your face. Everyone wants to force guesses. There’s no room for neutral, for poking, even for breathing lol because everyone’s plan is to get in your face.
My biggest problem with SF5 and SF6 has always been the forced strike/throw guesses and I was surprised you didn't bring it up. These forced guesses make it so that it doesn't matter if you're a beginner or Tokido, you are going to take a lot of damage against oki on wakeup. Furthermore, the fact that jumping out of a throw will get you dp'd because they recover way too quickly. I wonder how the game would change if they significantly increased the recovery on whiffed throw or increased the throw protection on wakeup or after blocking. How do you feel about strike/throw?
yeh, after playing sf6 for a while, i realized that i actually wanted to play guilty gear. number 1, if you get a throw off you can't just infinite oki off it, its dumb as hell that only some characters get that option in sf considering they even have it in the first place. number 2, roman cancel keeps the game smart, i feel like the constant oki guessing against all the top tiers in sf makes you feel stupid, guessing right doesn't even feel like an accomplishment. thats why i think breaking a throw should reward the breaker with one bar of drive and take away one from the other. number 3, you die for whiffing a grab in gg (unless you rc)
Strike/throw will be in every fighting game. The problem this game has is throw loops, this makes the strike/throw way more powerful than usual because you have to guess on the 1st frame of your wakeup.
@@WutTheDeuceGaming I don't think it is in every game. Most games have additional throw protection on wakeup or in blockstun so you can't get thrown right away. They also have longer tech windows or more recovery if the throw whiffs. None of these are in SF6.
@@gabereell but GG has proximity throws? that's like the most skilled throw because you can do tech out of it and you're absolutely dead asf if you fail to grab, even with some OS covering you're not guaranteed to be safe.
@@SH4D0WBattousai thas what im saying. when i jump a whiffed grab in sf it recovers so fast that i rarely get anything off it, but in strive when someone whiffs a grab that mf is dead as hell. a grab which is usually a super advantageous knockdown needs a bigger risk factor.
They took one of the things most people complained about in SFV, + on block EX moves that get you in and are too fast to consistently deal with, and made it a universal mechanic with Drive Rush. Brought back throw loops as well. So now even at high levels of play everyone has to deal with characters forcing their way in constantly and taking the throw just resets into a true 50/50. All of that on top of you being punished way harder for blocking in this game compared to SFV. Losing Drive Gauge on block really allows stuff like Ken's jinrai to run amok for no good reason. All of the quality of life features of this game when it comes to training mode features and matchmaking are great. But playing SF6 feels like playing the version of SFV that haters had in their heads lol, it's so obscene.
Imo people complaining about the +frames in 5 were scrubs. Good defense really made a difference in that game. In 6 it feels like no matter what or how good you do on defense you are consistently being punished for it, whether it’s being cracked by the mental stack or eating non stop +frames and losing drive gauge for it unless I make the right call out with parry (yea “call out” not read because everything is a damn guess in this game). Losing drive for blocking was something I didn’t like since before I had ever gotten my hands on this game and I’m doubling down more than ever, it doesn’t make sense in any capacity.
Training mode is trash. Lmao. They made trying to even exit training mode feel like scrolling through a textbook. So unintuitive, and people need to realize these devs aren't competent.
@@user-wy1et9dk9w That's the insane cognitive dissonance I see everywhere with the SF6 cultists. They hated SFV for certain aspects that SF6 made way worse!
best comment. the drive system is horrible but its the games core so they cant do anything about it now. they tried to incorporate a dead mvc type mech into sf and its failed miserably
This is actually really good news. The general overall attempt is great. The game mechanics are good in what they are trying to create. So many layers for the players to strategize. This will definitely help to balance the gameplay in the future. This game is very new. They will probably wait a bit longer to make the best assessment in game patches. Thanks everyone for bringing the needed tweaks up. Capcom will listen if it’s clearly seen and understood.
Agree with you on all the problems you mentioned. This kind of play style isn't SF core on footsie. One low medium kick to drive rush that do 1/3 or 1/2 damage is crazy. They need to nerf the damage after drive rushing combo, make it just like perfect parry.
My biggest problem with the game is that the matchmaking region lock thing has NOT been fixed yet and people seem to gloss over it now. If you're in the middle east, and even if you're plat (most common rank) it takes sooo much time to find a match and when you do, it's the SAME 5-6 people (with a 100-140 ping). The game refuses to put me against europeans even though I get a much better connection there (70-80 ping, on the rare occasion where it chooses to let me play). And as much shit Strive gets for its lobbies, it NEVER had that problem. I bought SF6 mainly because it's the most popular FG, and so there's a (comparatively) endless amount of people to fight, right? Many times it felt like a complete scam.
I dont feel hopeful that any of these aspects of the game will change fully by next season honestly. it took sfv awhile to fix itself so i imagine it going be awhile for 6 as well.
I've helped people who get to Masters with replay analysis, and you'd be surprised how many of them are just getting cratered while in that rank. 40% WR gets you to Master, and in Master you can't derank, only drop your MMR, which puts you in the unenviable position of losing over and over against a mixture of gimmicks and actual killers. There's more than a few I've worked with that got to Master by leaning heavily on drive rush and forcing scrambles that pans out in the aggregate to get you to Masters, but then falls off as soon as people can check your strategy effectively. I don't fault the system, Capcom wanted Master to be achievable by anyone who has a reasonable understanding of their character and the patience to get to that rank. It's not a pleasant experience once you're there, however.
hitting master made me want to lose master i don’t deserve it and a lot of players don’t. my win rate is 46% with kim and 55% with rashid and im not even in master w rashid😊
Does 40 percent really get you to masters ? I’m at 54% with Chun Li and I’m at around 23500. It’s getting pretty hard. Took me 56 matches to get 85 points the other days . I have almost 800 matches total in ranked and I’m hoping I can get master within 1000 and not just through grinding . But it upsets me when I run into terrible players at my rank who mash after getting hit.
@@Evilj82 It's a bit of an exaggeration. Yeah, if you're consistently going back and forth with people roughly at your level and only winning 40%, eventually you'll get there but it'll be a pretty ridiculous grind. The real problem to me is that MR grinding isn't particularly fun. I've just been taking up new characters left and right and ranking them up to Masters rather than actually playing my mains (and then I go back to my mains after a month or so and get dumpstered in Masters because I've lost all the muscle memory).
Okay so... about the ranking system: I dont think capcom designed it with only casuals in mind. The first few leagues are an exception because they have no demotion, rank down protection and in rookie you cant even lose points. But when I initially saw what they were doing with plat and above I was really excited and the placement matches seemed like a nice way to combat smurfing and getting rid of the grind. Where they fucked up was the way they gave points and the placement system. I have like 5-6 characters ranked and not one of them is bellow diamond. I remember when the game launched I tried doing placement matches with cammy, having only played like 15mins of her in training mode. I won 4 out of 10 matches and got diamond 1... **WHAT**. However, the new MR system is great, and it sparked my excitement for ranked once again. The only thing its missing in my opinion is different titles depending on your MR. Because saying the actual number sounds hella lame.
As a casual. I love the game. Just got to Gold but I feel like learning about the fighters and their gimmicks is part of the enjoyment of the game. As a Ryu main, I love doing 60 per hit. The ONLY character I don't like is JP. But I love him because of his suffocating pressure. I play I feel like one I get an understanding of JP, I'll be able to beat him.
A very casual take from a very casual player: I hate the ranking system, everything below master being “casual ranked” where you get a billion points for winning and lose none when losing, the fact you get to master as long as you don’t lose all your matches, and not being able to de-rank from master.
I don't know where people keep getting this mentality from. If you have a 45% win ratio, going from Plat 1 to Master will take you LITERALLY 10,000 matches. Even at a 55% win rate, you're still looking at a huge time investment to even begin to play at Master rank. Anything lower than 45% rate, even .01% lower, and you're not climbing at all. How does that make the system broken? Who are these people with 45% win rates that are crawling on their stomachs into Master rank?
Great video! I’m currently stuck in D3 but I am in my learning phase I get tilted like everyone else but I know I still have a ton of room to improve and I want to and seeing this game at a higher level puts things into perspective and helps me wanna improve and this video was a great stepping stone for me
As it is right now, I like the idea of having Punish Counter property on drive rush and reducing its potency on block. That way the risk and reward from using it makes more sense- you get in and get punished, you lose more drive gauge and health. Otherwise, you get in and can pressure
I think taking aim at casuals is misguided, simply because we too have many of the same complaints. Capcom isn't doing this broken stuff for us casuals, we're unhappy too. #1 thing they need to work on is the input reader.
Being able to demote is a basic feature that needs to be in ranking systems in my opinion. Any system that prevents demotion is just there to make people not feel bad, rather than proper representation of skill.
Ok, I thought about this, I'm a scrub but I think I actually have a simple approach to fix the drive rush problem. The main problem is not being able to punish it on reaction. That mainly stems from the fact that you can cancel it like 9 frames into a drive rush which is lower than the actual human ability to react. My proposed change is as follow : 1) make it impossible to cancel out of drive rush. 2) Make drive rush a minimum of 18 frames independent of distance travelled (like a dash) 3) trigger the attack pressed on proximity to opponent so that jabs counter-hit drive rushes. so the risk is : you open yourself up to a jab counter and you pay drive gauge. The reward is : On block you're +4 on top of your button and quick movement towards opponent. For the parry, just give 25 frames of recovery on tap parry and call it a day. Simple changes to make the game playable.
I'm not gonna defend this game, cause I'm a Low Diamond/High Plat perma scrub....but a lot of shit in these clips are people complaining about stuff THEY did to themselves. >Mashing and getting punished >spamming DR or DR being spammed without playing the space game >Whining about ranked, when 90% of people I know IRL that play this game are stuck below Gold I'm not saying there isn't valid criticism, but too much of the FGC is just crying due to burnout or about stuff they could adapt to. The perfect fighting game doesn't exist.
This is my problem with ranked. I chose beginner when I started the game because I hadn't played SF in a long time and the best I can qualify at is Silver or Gold at best and I'm stuck grinding forever even though I'm getting 10+ win streaks all the time. By the time I grinded up to Platinum I was tired of grinding points and they took away my ability to level fast by getting win streaks. I'm Platinum 3 and the idea of grinding five levels through Diamond bores me. The level of challenge is basically unchanged and I actually was losing more earlier on.
Yeah I've been playing SF for years but I picked "intermediate because heck it's a new game. Now i always get like gold when I do placement matches. And wind up having to go on win streaks and get platinum just to grind more.
@@dawkmanx6058 They could've made it way more simple and took that whole aspect out of the game and make maximum qualify at gold. It kind of makes the ranking system irrelevant when you can just pick "expert", win 6 out of 10 games and start at Plat 4.
@@rabbyd542 yep. Some of my friends reached diamond 1 with characters they don't even main because they picked advanced. It was annoying knowing I put in more time with mine and won more placements.
Pro level complaints were capcom's goal I think. We can all be Daigo if the dev's do it right! Right? It's sad when a game shits on pro players. You guys make me want to play better. I'd hate to think that your years of experience don't count for much.
The ranking stuff is a bit misleading; plat 1 is highest because that's where win streak bonuses stop, so lots of people get into it that way and that is a bigger factor than placement. Diamond 5 is so low because at the border of any rank you oscillate up and down, but on the border of Diamond 5 and Master you can only oscillate up, not down, since master has permanent rank down protection..
I thought I was going crazy. My spiral arrows either came out or didn’t. My supers either come out or didn’t. Cammy stand heavy into heavy spiral arrow left a gap when it shouldn’t.
Very well said. Honestly I feel like a lot of people are getting fed up with the game and none of my friends play it anymore casually, let alone grinding ranks. Too much of the game is just boiled down to drive rush as much as humanly possible. I quit grinding ranked early when I got to diamond 1 with a pretty high winrate because I felt no one even cared if you were master and I was just getting frustrated. 50 minutes of well made critique, thank you SonicSol, here's hoping the game gets better
As do i man. Year 1 patch will probably change the overall meta but a lot of the issues are with the system more than the characters. We'll just have to see. Thanks man.
The crazy part for me is that day 3 when the game came out and I did my placement matches with Manon after picking beginner because it asks you if I remember correctly what your rank was in SF5 and in SF5 I was high Bronze/low Silver so that's what I chose. I went through my placement matches and got placed in Gold 1. I was so thrown off by it I dropped the character. As I got better and got higher up through the ranks I noticed that most of the time even characters that I did poorly with in placements or I felt like I was doing poorly with I would get Plat 1, Plat 3, Plat 5, or D1. I haven't reached master yet and admittedly I don't want to get it just yet because there isn't anything necessarily to fight for other than saying I did it.
@@Nostalgiaforinfi I agree. but I seen 2 diagonal down left inputs between those two buttons. im sure when he was doing his qcb motion he hit forward accidentally. He may have went too far forward when he attempted to return to neutral at the start of each QCB
Remember in SFV when we complained about the lack of defensive options? And then we got vshift. Fast forward to this game and we're back to Offensive Fighter rather than Street Fighter. Same thing goes for throw loops. They went and nerfed all of them in SFV, fast forward again, they're all over SF6. We're basically playing vanilla SFV, except with a way more oppressive mechanic thrown in with drive rush. Inputs are the biggest issue with this game, followed by drive rush eating inputs, you should absolutely not be able to drive rush when a projectile is on screen. That shit is mad stupid. The ranking system is absolutely busted and is the main reason high level people are farming the same players over and over again. All these 40% win rate players are hitting master, which is gross, and then just stopping making it so the opponent pool is extremely small given there are a ton of inactive master ranked players. It hurts the high level players and the people they're beating up over and over again. The ranking system is an absolute joke imo. Why would they ever give an option to speed up the ranks? This makes placement matches absolutely useless. For reference, when I started, I won 7 of my placements and ended up in gold. The skill level thing seems pretty set in stone unless you wipe all 10 opponents you face. Again, placements are accomplishing nothing, so why are we doing them?
Preach it man, always thought giving safe moves on block to characters was a dumb idea. Having no penalty for getting blocked should not still give that player an advantage. Specials that are safe on block allows spamming with no downside. If you get burnout some characters can safe block string you into the corner with no option besides a super, if the game doesn't eat your input... The offense in this game is ridiculous...
This just reads like you're getting hit by Cheeky knowledge checks because the game as is doesn't have that many + moves on shield outside of the rushdowns, and that's because... they're rush downs Lmfao
@@doctordice2doctordice210 Always puzzles me people ending their sentence with a "lol", as if their statement is miraculously validated and fact checked. That's exactly the problem, rush downs with no penalty for fucking up. Drive impacts giving them + on block and specials that can be spammed with no penalty on block, that's the problem we are discussing here...
one positive about the command grab input storing for so long is that you can buffer a spd and get an easy walk forward command grab by doing a 874123[6] input and just delaying P
NB: Dropped inputs = roll-back net code. RB drops frames to resync lag, and the offshoot of that is, with lower millisecond connections, you don't _see_ or _feel_ the lag, while the resyncing is still taking place and the input drops occurring.
I treat this game almost like an anime fighter where you need to have an offensive mindset instead of waiting for the opponent to make a mistake. The problem is some characters don't "get to party" as well as others with these system mechanics, but idk how you'd balance say, Lily, because her biggest problem is she has the best special move in the game 👀
The rank you pick at the beginning doesn't determine your starting rank. It just determines who your first placement matches are against. If you pick Novice, it's going to put you against a bronze, then a silver, then a gold, then plats, then diamonds. If you beat all of them, it's going to put you in Diamond. Likewise, if you pick Advanced and get bodied by everybody you're going to end up in bronze or silver depending on the lowest ranked person who beat you. The reason you got placed in diamond is because you beat diamonds.
Mr. Vesper Arcade is only saying that about master rank because he didn't know how to play street fighter 5 and couldn't achieve master rank in 5. Remember he used to ask AM kidd for help. That's why Mr. Vesper said that!
1. No move priorities (other than for normal throws) 2. Cannot punish properly 3. Jab, jab, jab... 4. Splatoon slide = 90% of the "meta" 5. Death Corners 6. Too few defensive options (cannot even tech roll forwards!) 7. Drive Impact counters (people just "plink" HP+HK after ever button press) 8. Throws 9. 50% damage scaling on perfect shields 10. Cannot crouch under standing attacks 11. No punish bonus for supers (yet, there for throws!) 12. Too few specials for many characters 13. Drive Gauge depletion from blocking 14. Modern controls in Ranked 15. Cannot filter Modern controls, nor leave a Modern match-up without penalty 16. Nonsensical air throws (JP with a wand in his hand has on; Manon, a JUDOKA, does not!) 17. Hit-confirms too easy 18. Game is too scrubby overall 19. Game presentation is ugly 20. One year is too long a delay for gameplay updates
The rank system for SF6 is actually a big joke. In SF5 I had to grind and get good to get to Plat and Diamond...I know, not the highest of ranks, but it felt like a journey of progression. In SF6, I was PLACED in Plat 5 from the start, which takes away a good chunk of the fun to begin with. As for drive rush, I forget which pro said it, but he nailed it: "SF6 is a game of who's better at using drive rush to confirm a combo"
I feel that the drive rush mechanic is intended to keep the game fast paced, and on paper it is a good mechanic, but the only problem that I have with it is that the reward from successfuly checking it should be much greater. The drive rush itself should put the user in punish counter state, regardless of wheter they press a button or do any move during it at all, that way, not only the combo damage from punishing a drive rush attempt would be greater, but the drive gauge use on that offensive attempt would increase. For the health of the game I think that the DR should remain a rewarding option, but they need to increase its risk to match.
So to summarize: Juri/Deejay - Unreactable/Possibly Safe Drive Rush Drive Rush-Jab Drive Rush Eating Inputs Drive Parry Fire Ball -> Drive Rush (DeeJay/Aki/Juri) Dee Jay's Tools and Safe Sweep Ranked System Broken Ken's Pressure (easy burnout) Seems like the earl meta is just super hyper offense. Unless you're Snakeyez. I finally have a computer for gaming. Should I buy SF6? Last one I actually played SF4.
I mean... DSP hit master rank, that's all that needs to be said about the ranking system of SF6 😂. Rank is just fake Internet points at the end of the day so that stuff doesn't really bother me much. Mechanically speaking though there are things that drive me nuts in this game. Drive reversal being borderline useless in most scenarios (whether it be because of its meter cost, or the fact that it's -8 on block) and trying to check drive rushes only to trade, lose, or just get your input eaten are the main things for me. I still LIKE SF6 five months later, but there are a few huge things that just stop me from LOVING it.
Raw DR needs to be minus on block, that would prevent people abusing it and reestablish the neutral game and prevent nuetral skipping BS. DR should only be plus when you cancel into it on hit then people would actually have to play footsies and actually win the nuetral before using it
All of these are valid points. I'm no pro but I do like fighting games and I like to learn and actually git gud. Playing SF6 I always thought that my input problems were my fault because my super or my DP didn't come out at the right time. But the more I played the more I was conviced something was up...I would play with my friends and whenever I talk about the inputs they'd brush it over and just say that "Ryu is a slow character" (I'm a Ryu main BTW) But then other times I make unreal comebacks and they all get shocked. Now I always was suspecious of why when I do the very same thing it mostly depends on chance and it frustrated the hell out of me! This is a fighting game and it's supposed to be about the skills of the player and not anything else. I'm glad this video is out for many to see. But unfortunately I was right about the input issue.
my theory for fixing drive rush, in a few simple steps: 1) normal xx DR is ALWAYS minus OB (and punishable from a blocked low). make it like a karin seppo. if you do an empty seppo you should be punishable. for clarity, i mean that if you press a button, that button is blocked, and then you cancel drive rush, you are minus in your opponent's face. if it was a low button that was blocked and you drive rushed, you are now at least -4 in the opponent's face 2) all drive rushes are 2 bars, including cancels (to protect combo routes but nerf it in neutral) 3) make low forward confirmable again to facilitate point 1 4) make drive rush put you in a punish counter state 5) delete JP
also, nerf all damage by 25%. it is ridiculous how easy it is to convert from a hail mary cancel into crazy corner into the craziest corner pressure of any SF game. the fact that this game can be a two- or three-touch round is just ridiculous on top of it. capcom was smoking crack when they were designing this game. it's too anime. burn woshige at the stake.
Second comment; Fuck it. This is really eye opening on how rough SF6 is to this day. But I think another issue that me and my friend sees in Ranked, is the overuse of Drive Impact., and how in a lot of situations, it can replace actual defense. I don't know about you Sol, but I see a lot of people in ladder spaming DI all the time because they don't want to block whatsoever. It may not seem important on the surface, since it's usually their problem, but the fact that DI is weirdly more used than learning how to block, shows me that the game is rewarding this kind of ignorant meter spending to get out of tough situations, instead of planning out ways to tactfully counter strategies. It sends the wrong message to new players who want to use SF6 as their first stepping stone into FGs. Oh, also, I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom made button inputs fucked so that Casuals can do moves stupid easier. Which doesn't make sense to me because that's what Modern was allegedly for... That's my take on it. Have yourself a nice one Sol!
I have suggested a fix for drive rush that I think could be a good start to fixing what is a very poorly thought out mechanic. I suggested changing raw drive rush to 3 bars of drive gauge, changing drive rush on hit and on block to 1.5 or possibly 2 bars. What this does is really limit how often people can raw drive rush in the neutral, especially if using 2 bars on EX fireball prior to drive rushing. If it cost 5 bars to ex fireball into drive rush that would prevent people from spamming drive rush in the neutral. The problem is not the mechanic in my opinion, but rather how often it can be used. Right now, spamming drive rush in the neutral is basically free and that's the biggest problem.
You have valid points, drive rush having imbalanced risk reward, parry being extremely strong, inputs being weird and the way the game lets you force strike throw are genuine problems, but you make a lot of things seem worse than they are by not showcasing all the options. The part about ranked, I just don't really get it. Casuals can have fun and climb ranks at a decent pace while serious players can have a proper ELO system it's a win-win and it's not like you can't tell which player is truly good in master, the gap between 1500 and 2200 is gigantic. Who is genuinely bothered that people can cheese being plat or diamond. As a sidenote the main reason there are so many people in plat 1 is because that's where winstreak bonuses end its as simple as that.
I was really excited when I saw the mr system introduced since I come from overwatch 1, but it’s as you say sonic. Looking past the rank system and playing tournaments is the only way I’m feeling any improvement right now. I’m around the 1750 range and it sucks to lose hours of progress even when I win the set. Worst part is losing a match and feeling like I didn’t learn anything. Wow the juri player was doing dr in neutral I tried my best to stop it , sometimes it worked but most times it didn’t. Granted this can happen in a tournament setting as well but at least then I’m not stressing over points and focused 100% on what my opponent is doing. Great video 👍
When you did the Juri example, you didn’t use mp as the drive rush butto’n, you used jab , which basically anyone can do that. I do agree Juri is obnoxious
10:37 there aren't many follow ups if DJ lands DR > jab from that far away. He'd have to use DR > jab > MP > DR to extend the combo, using 4 bars of meter for a combo that starts with a light attack. What DJ wants is to land DR > jab close enough so he can follow up with 4HK for real damage, and at that point it becomes checkable (sometimes). but that's where his DR > sway comes into play. 13:12 and DJ's fireball > DR is only real on block if he OD's the fireball and it requires a specific range. there's not a ton he can do off of this if he wants to be plus (he can't be in grab range and plus by doing this, like a DJ trying to DR grab after OD fireball is ALWAYS vulnerable to normal buttons). any real damage off of something like this, he'd have to spend a LOT of meter or use a super. like OD fireball (block) > DR > MP (hit) > crMP > DR is 6 bars, anything else doesn't do much damage or requires super meter or another mixup. DJ is very meter hungry
Honestly, just make everyone like Manon. Give them her DR. Also NO one gets any plus moves so the clowns have to learn to play the game. People may hate that character but I guarantee you any Manon you play against in higher ranks has GOOD fundamentals and reactions. Cause you literally have to to play her. Before I thought I was just bad missing my input timing then I started going back to watch replays and come to find out. I wasn’t missing inputs in most cases. Some of the shit I’ve experienced is insane and needs to be fixed. The quality of life of this game ain’t okay and I’m not even talking about buffs or nerfs. Just simple system issues.
I'm glad it's not just me who's getting no input, I thought my controller was broken. Hope this gets fixed asap. Loving the game so far, but I can understand the new mechanics are broken at a higher level.
Overall I’m having fun in the game while waiting for my true main to finally drop. Using Jamie, DJ & Rashid in the meantime. Rashid as main. The bulk of what you said here is true especially the dropped inputs and DI/DR.
I called out drive rush in the beta as did many others but i decided in its current form it was a deal breaker so i stopped playing. It needs 2 changes and it's morally acceptable. 1. Remove screen freeze during raw neutral. This doesn't apply during blockstrings or during oki/knockdown. So i can properly press vs it. 2. Add 5-10f of startup to raw drive rush so you can visually recognize the parry startup. Most likely 5 is enough but 10 is probably too high
I really hope the reason they havent really done anything MAJOR to the game so far is so they can collect a ton a feedback so they can fix everything at once and add DLC and just refresh the game and clean it up but I've played way to many games that have been setup in a very similar way that are just left alone but I like this game way to much and PRAY that they fix this stuff
If you are have buffered qcfs, and your opponent jumps at you, it is physically impossible to DP (if you have meter). Even if you end on down forward, you will get a super. I have lost because of this.
drive rush is fine, the biggest issue is that it eats inputs and that the input reader in general is suspect, this is the games only huge issue. DR should be more normalized though, juri and dj are just dumb, nobody should be that fast and probably limit buttons you can use in dr to m and h buttons. game definitely needs some balance too, juri having a 5f sMk is ridiculous. parry should be punishable with a normal, just give you the same scaled combo they would get if they successfully parried.
My two cents here: I skipped sfv so this game has felt like a steep learning curve. I got the game.on release date and started playing ranked after 2 weeks. I did poorly on my placement matches,(got started as rookie) and with my busy work schedule I wasn't really learning the game.quick enough. 4 months later I've made it to a 2 star diamond. As soon as I picked up on the game mechanics I been hiking up at a steady pace. Yes I still struggle with some match ups(Cammy/Ryu mains), and I go through losing streaks but... Hey I'm learning and enjoying the game.
The input leniency system is so fucked in this game. Its supposed to make inputs easier and more consistent but it does the exact opposite. I cant even count how many times I've done a DP from crouch and it comes out as lvl 1 super. (which doesn't anti air for my character). The input reader stores the fucking crouch input and so when I do DP it reads Down, forward, QCF which becomes lvl 1 super but I never fucking pressed down, I just let go of downback and I did forward, QCF.
Let me know what your thoughts are down below. Keep it civil please.
Juri actually needs her Drive rush or else she'd just get zoned to death. Outiside of Drive rush overhead, she has only grab and Cr. short to open up opponents...Assuming shes in, she needs the threat of DR to keep opponents honest in there zoning, the Devs gave her that for a reason whilst purposely making her have the worst cr. jab distance in the game. It even says at the character select screen that shes meant for close range hence they gave her ways to close the gap. Everything Juri does requires a resource which takes time and positioning.
@@Lordsetsunia when the game first came out I was ratting on Juri. As a Jamie main I just found her normal’s absurdly broken and to a certain extent they are,however, as time went on I found answers to her pressure. I do think she needs a small nerf but I don’t think she’s broken and I do think her drive rush is fine. But Jamie can stuff her drive rush out where other characters can’t.
I think, to add additional more competitive feel: there’s needs to be a harsher punishment for players who one and done (which could be enacted from plat/diamond and higher). To explain, if I one and done an opponent after winning the first game, it should subtract 80 points from me for forfeiting the 2 remaining games. I think making the “one and doner” lose points is better than making the person who stayed gain points falsely.
Sidenote: I also find that when I use an ETHERNET cord, this games gives me continuous error codes: whether it’s 50708-10005 or 50607 or 52300 it’s terrible to establish connection man and I play on pc
@@jtsnow4331 Also, consider this. What is juri getting off of her normals outside of sweep (low fwd range) Some characters in this game have safe sweeps or can be safe at a distance, Ryu, Deejay, Marissa. Juri is never safe on sweep so the only way she can knock you down safely is grab or limb into fuha.
What do you think about her should be nerfed?
I generally want to be open to other perspectives on the matter.
Mainly agree with the imput reader, that and I heard that having drive rush only give you plus frames on hit sounds like a good solution
I definitely see some of your points on the ranking system, but I feel like 2% of the playerbase occupying the highest achievable rank is actually a pretty good spread. Despite you saying master rank is easy to achieve, the player distribution seems to say otherwise. The fact that it's further stratified by the MR system gives the most skilled players an even higher ladder to climb, while also giving more casual players a realistic goal to achieve in just getting to master rank. Definitely pros and cons depending on your philosphy in competitive game design, but from a player engagement perspective, SF6 seems to be incredibly successful in player retention. Correlation /= causation, but worth thinking about.
I definitely said its for player engagement at the end of the video...
Yeah I guess I just disagree with your framing. I came away with the impression that you think it's strictly a bad thing, in that it takes away from the competitive market while I feel like you haven't really demonstrated why. I see a ranked system that seems to encourage player retention without marketedly harming the top end competitive integrity, so it's kind of a win-win no? Don't we want more casuals pursuing higher ranks(even if the ranks are somewhat illusary)because they feel like their goals are attainable, then hopefully translating into a more dedicated fanbase and getting more serious into the FGC? Online ranks are just pixels at the end of the day, and tournaments are where the real glory lies anyways! @@SonicSol
Eventually over time it will become 3, 4, 5 percent and more people in master while more of the accounts under master stop playing the game. It eventually will saturate. The main thing is Master is already too easy to achieve for anyone who can remotely compete in offline tournaments and it will show more as time goes on
@monsterofvoices exactly the point. Good to keep casuals playing, bad for the competitive aspect of the game. Most who get master literally stop playing.
Rating inflation is pretty normal across games, and that's what seasonal resets are for. Everything is relative. If master rank is easier to reach, then it becomes all about reaching a high MR rating, and that will become the new proxy in which players are assessed for their skill. It's literally just trading a badge for a number in how we're valuing something. And honestly, a direct number is probably more accurate for indicating your skill anyways.@@monsterofvoices
It’s funny that drive impact, the one that people were ultra skeptical about pre-launch, is the only drive mechanic that no one is complaining about being too weak or too strong
Nah that mechanic consistently gets smack talked by lower level scrubs due to it being a universal noob/bignner killer
@@doctordice2doctordice210it’s a scrub killer mechanic and I love it now.
But ironically as OP said, when I first saw both mechanics I thought in practice drive rush was amazing and drive impact would be annoying. If only I had known what was coming.
Except for LTG
And on my scrubby/casual level, dudes who play COD and 2K can use drive impact and think they good. When if you put them on SF 5 or 4, they'd be dead in the water.
@@themrfelipe6005 And DSP. 🤣
As a medium level player I completely dislike the drive system
It's very hard for me to react to drive impact, especially online
I also dislike that it doesn't allow neutral play and instead makes it feel ignorant
Drive rush overcomplicates the combos for no reason and just adds more inputs I have to learn
Like I said I'm not that good, but I didn't have any problem with SFV and enjoyed it a lot, this game just feels like a massive wall that you have to climb
My idea to fix raw drive rush is to lower the extra block stun to +2 or 0 and keep it +4 on hit to keep the combos. You should be rewarded for opening people up or punishing not for skipping neutral.
I will say reduce the damage to something like perfect parry, when combo is started with Drive rush
@@kenhoableI'd like this but would probably kill the fun for lots of people. I think the majority like a free get in button and get big dmg
@@Doople I don't care really since people having fun with these mechanics are probably not the ones to make smart decisions about a game's design.
I think the speed should be the same for everyone, and punish counter if you get hit during DR. If i properly stop a DR, why don't I get any reward...
Drive impact needs to be immediate. I hate the fact that you can punch / kick the DI to slow it down and still have time to DI yourself. It takes away from defensive options in the game.
The input issues have been maddening since the game came out. I think it was an "Emperor has no clothes" situation where most people were too scared of being a called a scrub for not having good execution. It's funny that a lot of these issues seem to be created from trying to make specials easier, instead they made the game way harder than it needs to be. Is there anything more salt inducing than losing due to an eaten input or random special flying out?
Game still isn't hard at all. It's just also factually broken since even inputs aren't even polished. People who defend this game act like cultists.
It's the crux of modern fg. Kof xv has this too. It's frustrating.
@@thenewkalpagame is for sure hard if you want it to be. The timings in this game are not intuitive at all, the game will literally go slow motion on confirm for combos. You have so many spacings and options. This game is not figured at all, in terms of almost-flawless play. No one has a buttoned up play yet...no one. People just play their game plan and then think their game plan is all there is to fighting games. It’s almost like gatekeeping how you want the game played. Most people play very tight, very close neutral. This game can be tons more options and game plans than people make it out to be. Virtually all players, beyond the top rank, are not very high level mind game players. So they think all there is to this game is straight forward play.
If you are have buffered qcfs, and your opponent jumps at you, it is physically impossible to DP (if you have meter).
Even if you end on down forward, you will get a super.
Thank you for saying this. This game has a lot of issues but the FGC is like a cult sometimes, no one csn really come out and complain because somehow we all just decided that SF6 was the greatest fighting game ever made. To deviate from this sentiment is to instantly get dismissed or labeled as a scrub. Hence no one says anything, we just suffer the BS in silence.
Poor you lol
Yep the fgc is especially bad with this. Though it's gaming in general nowadays. Just shill for the current thing no exceptions
Most pro players dont want to badmouth sf because they are making money off it but deep down inside they secretly hate it
you can have criticisms of a game without hating it
It could’ve been worse (mk1)
sounds like 5 all over again
@@halfbakedberserker comparing SF6 to SFV is delusional
@@kye4216 not comparing games I was referring to the way pro players are continuing to play a game they don't enjoy or have issues with just like in 5. both games are whack anyway, 5 & 6.
Finally someone talks about how abysmal the input reader is. There's nothing i hate more in this game than pressing a button and just STANDING THERE as my opponent gets another chance at life or i have to try to reopen then up and don't let me "magically drop" into a negative move. The other thing i hate is just getting the randomest thing from trying to play neutral including a random dp, a FHk, breakdance, a lvl 2 super, a lvl 3 super. Literally didn't even cross my mind to use the move but hey here's a few things we have to keep the game interesting.
Cammy's CA has zero recovery on block or whiff...the fighting aspect of this game is BAD really really BAD, how so many people (who know better) can defend it is beyond me.
I'm not certain we want to be nerfing parry with how the game is right now. Against much of the hyper offensive characters, perfect parry is one of the few things that allow weaker characters to get out of corner or dissuade certain offense options. It does somewhat create rich gets richer for characters like Cammy and Ken, but everyone being able to switch corner situations or have an answer to Marisa punches and Honda headbutts is important for balance between characters.
The point about drive rush is completely valid though, Capcom must have been asleep at the wheel and the decision to wait a while year before patching is baffling. Inputs need to be able to be buffered during the freeze frame. Messing with input is unacceptable. Second, I would increase the inactionable time when drive rushing and remove the ability to special cancel normals used directly out of it. This would allow smart players to more reliably stop raw drive rush with a poke normal, or allow them to gamble at a fair risk and attempt to DI if they think the opponent is going to throw out a heavy preemptively.
If you disallow special move cancelling off drive rush normals then you will break tons of characters since most characters only have real blockstring pressure off of a drive rush normal.
Game's fundamentally busted
As I've told friends I'd be perfectly fine if they removed DR. Capcom went into anime territory by adding it to SF. It feels like they wanted to turn SF into MvsC but changed course and left it in.
I don't really have an opinion on Parry but 1 thing I wanna mention is: If you whiff parry, your drive gauge regeneration will be in cooldown for 4 seconds. This is a risk that most people don't realize.
I just think perfect parry shouldn't have that long pause so the player can decide what to do, it should just be like perfect parrying a fireball
@@themrfelipe6005 would be a horrible change for the person striking the parry because now you have to guess if you got perfect parried or not instead of continuing your pressure if they didn't
@@byVariations most people get perfect parries by pure chance anyways
@@themrfelipe6005 That doesn't change what he said.
just make that you can't cancel whiff parry on block and all good
Maximillion said this best, "Every game has bullshit." it does not matter how good a game is it will have something that you will hate but you will stay play despite the hate. I may not like how Max does things when playing games but I will respect this one fact he has said. Every game has something that is completely and utterly bullshit. I know someone is gonna say, "Oh MK 1 doesn't have that!" my response? "Cause nobody has played it for 6 months, watch it'll happen there's gonna be something that people will complain about one day." It's only a matter of time.
I'm saying. People already found out the bs in MK1 wirh cyrax assist and the top tiers. Tekken 8 will come out and people will hate heat. Everyones favorite game is the one they have the most nostalgia for because they're favorite character was probably busted af.
@@pretzels7437People already hate the Heat system since the Network test lol
@@pretzels7437 Nah, but SF6 is probably one of the dumbest game designs I've played. There are many SFs far superior to SF6.
The issue isn't just that the game has bullshit, it's also that it makes the game so one note.
@@thenewkalpa get better little bro
Yeah, I wanted to go hard in this game, but man, I don't like any of the drive mechanics after playing for an extended time. Throw loops either. The game is just not for me in its current state, but SF6 will be around for a very long time, so I don't need to rush. Hopefully, the changes they eventually make will make it more enjoyable for me. If not, there's a lot of other fgs to play. Nice video analysis and breakdown 👌
They need to fix the inputs and expand the wakeup buffer before anything else. If my opponent DIs me on my wakeup and I press DI when I see it, my DI should trigger as soon as I wake up. I shouldn't have to mash it out.
The issue is that drive rush is core to the game. Some moves would have to be reworked.
Drive rush for some characters is hard as hell to react to even if your looking out for it and know its coming. Miss and you just gave them a free combo based on strict reaction. Your going to lose turns with drive rushes.
Ranks are fine. As long as the system is providing good match ups the ranks don't matter. Just a way to see how your progressing. For the most part with the win bonus in effect your going to jump fast into platinum. That is what causes the discrepancy. It wants to move you into platinum.
The average player is so far removed from high level players. High level players are more consistent and also can handle more player styles and matchups. Some people can cook in matches and then play like a gold tier player in other matches.
"The issue is that drive rush is core to the game."
Capcom should try not making a fundamentally garbage game then, instead of just making promos and conditioning their fanbase to call everything skill issues.
Pros have complained about this game too. It affects everyone, not just low ranks. Fundamentally bad game.
Thing is, people who care about being good at a fg don’t care about the rank and people caring about the rank get what they want out here, with the real struggle beginning with MR. You can consider the system flawed but I don’t think pros even care about it, even in SFV it’s not like pros were Warlord as a requirement, far from it
Nah with mr a lot of pros seem pretty happy
I think you REALLY undersold the weakness of tap parry
1. Punish counter throw isn’t just 2k damage, it also depletes and entire drive bar AND is a heavy knockdown. So if they throw ur parry you took 2K, lost 1.5 drive, and have to eat whatever meaty they do after cuz you can’t backroll.
2. It can be cancelled into block but ONLY block for those 27 or so frames. This means no re-parry and more importantly NO DRIVE IMPACT. Tap parry is just begging for a wall splat or even stun if you were low on gauge. But even if you’re mid screen and out of throw range if the opponent picks up on you parry tapping after minus frames they can risk much greedier offense after blocking minus moves cuz you committed to 30+ frames of doing nothing.
I think a good way to fix some of the drive rush bs would be to give us same frame data on block as regular hits and leave the plus frames on hit.
there go allll the plus frames
The way SF has been for years pre-SFV. But for some reason, this doesn’t make sense anymore 🙄🤦🏽♂️
As someone who would only consider myself an average skilled player the ranking system has left me mad confused. I'm currently in Diamond 3 and I don't think the level of play is consistent sometimes I get players who are knowledgeable in some way of the game and it leads to fun sets other times I just get people who have one strategy and freeze up once you show you can shut it down. This actually made me not want to play ranked and just ask for games in a discord I'm in so I get more consistent games.
You have to realize the people that only run off one strategy usually are players that one and done alot and never finish a ranked set. This would all be avoided if you HAD to play ranked first to 2 instead of giving you the option of leaving after one match.
Diamond is also super weird because it's full of people who already have attained master on multiple characters learning new ones. I'm a 1700-1800ish MR Manon/Dee Jay player that decided to pick up Cammy around the time the AKI patch came out. It was an incredibly easy climb to master for the most part (especially compared to getting Manon there, I'm historically awful with grapplers and I wanted to challenge myself. Still sitting at a 49% win rate with her even with above average MR because of how many Ls I took early on.) but I experienced quite a few losses to other people that had already learned several characters and were just picking up AKI and were doing the same grind up to master.
i think they're both flawed to an extent but on top of the issues others have discussed with SF6's ranking system, I miss rank being attached to individual player rather than characters. During the 5 era, I didn't experiment with characters as much as I wanted to because of it, but in retrospect I think I prefer being thrown into the deep end after having gained enough experience to critique my own mistakes rather than the super inconsistent experience that the lower ranks provide where it's a wild crapshoot between people that lack the basic fundamentals of fighting games and people that don't.
For me, the game gets less enjoyable the better I get at it, which is the opposite of what I would normally expect. DR and parry both circumvent neutral in a way that feels bad. Even acknowledging that I got outplayed, it still feels bad when you lose a round because you dared try to take your turn back after blocking something that was -2.
For me or my enjoyment , it depends on my opponent. I typically use -2 or -3 on my attack to send out an ex reversal here and there. Once they respect it, that’s when the mind games start. But I dislike when my jump ins get parried and I hate playing against people who never learn patterns or always mash buttons after being hit or on their minis frames .
That's true for any game tho. Every game will have a meta and a best way to approach the usual game-to-game variance. If there wasn't DR then there were other things that would be considered just as powerful. And if you don't enjoy the act of getting better in this game, maybe you should try something else. I realized I don't want to climber higher than Floor 10 in GG Strive because the game is just so aggro focused and knowledge check-y that I decided to switch to SF6 and I've enjoyed it so much more.
@@radumotrescu3832perfectly said
Then don't play predictably. If you mash jab after every minus interaction, I think your opponent is doing a great job parrying you. It's just another defensive option in the long list of changeable defensive options.
This earliy sounds similar to what SF2 pros (smugly) said about third strikes parry "dumbing sf down" lmao
Another problem I don't see a lot of people talking about: it's nigh impossible to do a reversal super, if they do a drive action on your wake up (DR or DI), the game will straight out eat your input, and not only that, you'll stop blocking for daring to try to reversal. To fix DR, I'd say it should cost 3 bars to raw DR, just like when you cancel from a move, and cost 1 bar only when the combo counter is running, so it won't affect the combos we already have. Characters like Marisa only have to knock you down once and then you have to guess for your life, even midscreen. Guessed wrong? Now you're in the same scenario again. Tried to Drive reversal? She can block in time and punish you. There are literally no defensive mechanic in this game other than the hail mary tap parry, which is useless if you're in the corner. There's no skill involved anymore, it's just a guessing game in it's current state.
I don’t know if I’m the only person who feels this way but the better I get at this game the more homogeneous and same-y it feels. Like in some games I’ve reached high ranks in, it feels like at high levels you get to really express some creativity in how you play the game. But at high(ish) level play in sf6 it feels like there’s really only one thing to do. Get a poke. Drive cancel that poke. Do your drive cancel combo. Hit super at the end if you have the meter. Rinse wash repeat. Like I keep having this moment as I rank up where I realize over and over that oh, okay, I was trying to be creative but there’s only one thing that consistently works so if I wanna rank up I guess I have to do that. It’s so weird.
I mean you're basically explaining street fight v with cmk confirms. Every game can be boiled down to fundamental interactions.
@@radfield6089 tbh I didn't really play V much. I understand the argument but most of my SF experience prior was Alpha 3 and 3rd strike, and I do feel like those games feel a little more varied, but I dunno man.
Fellow Alpha 3 player here and yes absolutely! I’ve been saying this exact same thing since SFV days! This new formula of SF that Capcom is pitching to us is so remedial and same-y. Even with character specific attributes such as v-triggers or various DR speeds/frame adv among characters, everyone plays from the same blueprint. Get the knockdown and force instant 50/50 situations with throw loops/strike guesses until you get OD DP’d or you extend the combo to lvl 3 super for the win.
And Capcom PURPOSEFULLY implemented this formula for the sole reason to cater to beginners because this allows anyone to play good and get decent results. You don’t need to actually learn what your individual moves do and the risk/reward for using them if you can bypass those risks by skipping neutral with DR, gain plus on block moves for an otherwise negative move, and instantly force your offense on your opponent with 50/50s that leads to a lvl 3 combo for big damage. This is EVERYONE’S gameplan, including Dhalsim.
Everyone wants to force offense. Everyone wants to rushdown and get in your face. Everyone wants to force guesses. There’s no room for neutral, for poking, even for breathing lol because everyone’s plan is to get in your face.
My biggest problem with SF5 and SF6 has always been the forced strike/throw guesses and I was surprised you didn't bring it up. These forced guesses make it so that it doesn't matter if you're a beginner or Tokido, you are going to take a lot of damage against oki on wakeup. Furthermore, the fact that jumping out of a throw will get you dp'd because they recover way too quickly. I wonder how the game would change if they significantly increased the recovery on whiffed throw or increased the throw protection on wakeup or after blocking. How do you feel about strike/throw?
yeh, after playing sf6 for a while, i realized that i actually wanted to play guilty gear. number 1, if you get a throw off you can't just infinite oki off it, its dumb as hell that only some characters get that option in sf considering they even have it in the first place. number 2, roman cancel keeps the game smart, i feel like the constant oki guessing against all the top tiers in sf makes you feel stupid, guessing right doesn't even feel like an accomplishment. thats why i think breaking a throw should reward the breaker with one bar of drive and take away one from the other. number 3, you die for whiffing a grab in gg (unless you rc)
Strike/throw will be in every fighting game. The problem this game has is throw loops, this makes the strike/throw way more powerful than usual because you have to guess on the 1st frame of your wakeup.
@@WutTheDeuceGaming I don't think it is in every game. Most games have additional throw protection on wakeup or in blockstun so you can't get thrown right away. They also have longer tech windows or more recovery if the throw whiffs. None of these are in SF6.
@@gabereell but GG has proximity throws? that's like the most skilled throw because you can do tech out of it and you're absolutely dead asf if you fail to grab, even with some OS covering you're not guaranteed to be safe.
@@SH4D0WBattousai thas what im saying. when i jump a whiffed grab in sf it recovers so fast that i rarely get anything off it, but in strive when someone whiffs a grab that mf is dead as hell. a grab which is usually a super advantageous knockdown needs a bigger risk factor.
They took one of the things most people complained about in SFV, + on block EX moves that get you in and are too fast to consistently deal with, and made it a universal mechanic with Drive Rush. Brought back throw loops as well. So now even at high levels of play everyone has to deal with characters forcing their way in constantly and taking the throw just resets into a true 50/50. All of that on top of you being punished way harder for blocking in this game compared to SFV. Losing Drive Gauge on block really allows stuff like Ken's jinrai to run amok for no good reason.
All of the quality of life features of this game when it comes to training mode features and matchmaking are great. But playing SF6 feels like playing the version of SFV that haters had in their heads lol, it's so obscene.
Imo people complaining about the +frames in 5 were scrubs. Good defense really made a difference in that game.
In 6 it feels like no matter what or how good you do on defense you are consistently being punished for it, whether it’s being cracked by the mental stack or eating non stop +frames and losing drive gauge for it unless I make the right call out with parry (yea “call out” not read because everything is a damn guess in this game). Losing drive for blocking was something I didn’t like since before I had ever gotten my hands on this game and I’m doubling down more than ever, it doesn’t make sense in any capacity.
Training mode is trash. Lmao. They made trying to even exit training mode feel like scrolling through a textbook. So unintuitive, and people need to realize these devs aren't competent.
@@user-wy1et9dk9w That's the insane cognitive dissonance I see everywhere with the SF6 cultists. They hated SFV for certain aspects that SF6 made way worse!
@@thenewkalpa if you read the screen at all you would know you can just press L1+R1 to instantly move to the exit option
@@TrollANIMU Hard to see anything on that jumbled screen. Sorry, but not all of us are attuned to bad UI.
Problem with SF6 is they won’t admit they have made mistake adding DR and they can’t remove it
best comment. the drive system is horrible but its the games core so they cant do anything about it now. they tried to incorporate a dead mvc type mech into sf and its failed miserably
This is actually really good news. The general overall attempt is great. The game mechanics are good in what they are trying to create. So many layers for the players to strategize. This will definitely help to balance the gameplay in the future. This game is very new. They will probably wait a bit longer to make the best assessment in game patches. Thanks everyone for bringing the needed tweaks up. Capcom will listen if it’s clearly seen and understood.
Agree with you on all the problems you mentioned. This kind of play style isn't SF core on footsie. One low medium kick to drive rush that do 1/3 or 1/2 damage is crazy. They need to nerf the damage after drive rushing combo, make it just like perfect parry.
Muh fair and honest footsies
Reminder: They are many people who couldn't leave silver rank in SFV, who are in master rank currently..
My biggest problem with the game is that the matchmaking region lock thing has NOT been fixed yet and people seem to gloss over it now.
If you're in the middle east, and even if you're plat (most common rank) it takes sooo much time to find a match and when you do, it's the SAME 5-6 people (with a 100-140 ping).
The game refuses to put me against europeans even though I get a much better connection there (70-80 ping, on the rare occasion where it chooses to let me play).
And as much shit Strive gets for its lobbies, it NEVER had that problem. I bought SF6 mainly because it's the most popular FG, and so there's a (comparatively) endless amount of people to fight, right? Many times it felt like a complete scam.
The more I see this game makes me wonder even more to even bother learning it at all.
I dont feel hopeful that any of these aspects of the game will change fully by next season honestly. it took sfv awhile to fix itself so i imagine it going be awhile for 6 as well.
I've helped people who get to Masters with replay analysis, and you'd be surprised how many of them are just getting cratered while in that rank. 40% WR gets you to Master, and in Master you can't derank, only drop your MMR, which puts you in the unenviable position of losing over and over against a mixture of gimmicks and actual killers. There's more than a few I've worked with that got to Master by leaning heavily on drive rush and forcing scrambles that pans out in the aggregate to get you to Masters, but then falls off as soon as people can check your strategy effectively.
I don't fault the system, Capcom wanted Master to be achievable by anyone who has a reasonable understanding of their character and the patience to get to that rank. It's not a pleasant experience once you're there, however.
hitting master made me want to lose master i don’t deserve it and a lot of players don’t. my win rate is 46% with kim and 55% with rashid and im not even in master w rashid😊
Does 40 percent really get you to masters ? I’m at 54% with Chun Li and I’m at around 23500. It’s getting pretty hard. Took me 56 matches to get 85 points the other days . I have almost 800 matches total in ranked and I’m hoping I can get master within 1000 and not just through grinding .
But it upsets me when I run into terrible players at my rank who mash after getting hit.
@@Evilj8243% win rate with an average of 2000 matches is enough to get to masters.
@lwst82 the way the math shakes out, a 55% win rate will have you gaining a ranked level (star) every 300 matches.
@@Evilj82 It's a bit of an exaggeration. Yeah, if you're consistently going back and forth with people roughly at your level and only winning 40%, eventually you'll get there but it'll be a pretty ridiculous grind.
The real problem to me is that MR grinding isn't particularly fun. I've just been taking up new characters left and right and ranking them up to Masters rather than actually playing my mains (and then I go back to my mains after a month or so and get dumpstered in Masters because I've lost all the muscle memory).
Okay so... about the ranking system:
I dont think capcom designed it with only casuals in mind. The first few leagues are an exception because they have no demotion, rank down protection and in rookie you cant even lose points. But when I initially saw what they were doing with plat and above I was really excited and the placement matches seemed like a nice way to combat smurfing and getting rid of the grind.
Where they fucked up was the way they gave points and the placement system. I have like 5-6 characters ranked and not one of them is bellow diamond. I remember when the game launched I tried doing placement matches with cammy, having only played like 15mins of her in training mode. I won 4 out of 10 matches and got diamond 1... **WHAT**.
However, the new MR system is great, and it sparked my excitement for ranked once again. The only thing its missing in my opinion is different titles depending on your MR. Because saying the actual number sounds hella lame.
As a casual. I love the game. Just got to Gold but I feel like learning about the fighters and their gimmicks is part of the enjoyment of the game. As a Ryu main, I love doing 60 per hit.
The ONLY character I don't like is JP. But I love him because of his suffocating pressure.
I play
I feel like one I get an understanding of JP, I'll be able to beat him.
Use Tatsu to get past projectiles
A very casual take from a very casual player: I hate the ranking system, everything below master being “casual ranked” where you get a billion points for winning and lose none when losing, the fact you get to master as long as you don’t lose all your matches, and not being able to de-rank from master.
I don't know where people keep getting this mentality from. If you have a 45% win ratio, going from Plat 1 to Master will take you LITERALLY 10,000 matches.
Even at a 55% win rate, you're still looking at a huge time investment to even begin to play at Master rank.
Anything lower than 45% rate, even .01% lower, and you're not climbing at all. How does that make the system broken? Who are these people with 45% win rates that are crawling on their stomachs into Master rank?
Great video! I’m currently stuck in D3 but I am in my learning phase I get tilted like everyone else but I know I still have a ton of room to improve and I want to and seeing this game at a higher level puts things into perspective and helps me wanna improve and this video was a great stepping stone for me
As it is right now, I like the idea of having Punish Counter property on drive rush and reducing its potency on block. That way the risk and reward from using it makes more sense- you get in and get punished, you lose more drive gauge and health. Otherwise, you get in and can pressure
I think taking aim at casuals is misguided, simply because we too have many of the same complaints. Capcom isn't doing this broken stuff for us casuals, we're unhappy too. #1 thing they need to work on is the input reader.
Being able to demote is a basic feature that needs to be in ranking systems in my opinion. Any system that prevents demotion is just there to make people not feel bad, rather than proper representation of skill.
That's the hold my hand training wheels cope super gay Capcom stop the bs let mfs lose nd learn like we all had to 😒
Ok, I thought about this, I'm a scrub but I think I actually have a simple approach to fix the drive rush problem.
The main problem is not being able to punish it on reaction.
That mainly stems from the fact that you can cancel it like 9 frames into a drive rush which is lower than the actual human ability to react.
My proposed change is as follow : 1) make it impossible to cancel out of drive rush. 2) Make drive rush a minimum of 18 frames independent of distance travelled (like a dash) 3) trigger the attack pressed on proximity to opponent so that jabs counter-hit drive rushes.
so the risk is : you open yourself up to a jab counter and you pay drive gauge.
The reward is : On block you're +4 on top of your button and quick movement towards opponent.
For the parry, just give 25 frames of recovery on tap parry and call it a day.
Simple changes to make the game playable.
I'm not gonna defend this game, cause I'm a Low Diamond/High Plat perma scrub....but a lot of shit in these clips are people complaining about stuff THEY did to themselves.
>Mashing and getting punished
>spamming DR or DR being spammed without playing the space game
>Whining about ranked, when 90% of people I know IRL that play this game are stuck below Gold
I'm not saying there isn't valid criticism, but too much of the FGC is just crying due to burnout or about stuff they could adapt to. The perfect fighting game doesn't exist.
This is my problem with ranked. I chose beginner when I started the game because I hadn't played SF in a long time and the best I can qualify at is Silver or Gold at best and I'm stuck grinding forever even though I'm getting 10+ win streaks all the time. By the time I grinded up to Platinum I was tired of grinding points and they took away my ability to level fast by getting win streaks. I'm Platinum 3 and the idea of grinding five levels through Diamond bores me. The level of challenge is basically unchanged and I actually was losing more earlier on.
I actually agree I’m the same way ,
Took me 100 hours to get to platinum with ryu
I haven’t played street fighter since sf4
Like when aki came out it became fun again
Yeah I've been playing SF for years but I picked "intermediate because heck it's a new game. Now i always get like gold when I do placement matches. And wind up having to go on win streaks and get platinum just to grind more.
@@dawkmanx6058 They could've made it way more simple and took that whole aspect out of the game and make maximum qualify at gold. It kind of makes the ranking system irrelevant when you can just pick "expert", win 6 out of 10 games and start at Plat 4.
@@rabbyd542 yep. Some of my friends reached diamond 1 with characters they don't even main because they picked advanced. It was annoying knowing I put in more time with mine and won more placements.
Pro level complaints were capcom's goal I think. We can all be Daigo if the dev's do it right! Right? It's sad when a game shits on pro players. You guys make me want to play better. I'd hate to think that your years of experience don't count for much.
The ranking stuff is a bit misleading; plat 1 is highest because that's where win streak bonuses stop, so lots of people get into it that way and that is a bigger factor than placement. Diamond 5 is so low because at the border of any rank you oscillate up and down, but on the border of Diamond 5 and Master you can only oscillate up, not down, since master has permanent rank down protection..
I thought I was going crazy. My spiral arrows either came out or didn’t. My supers either come out or didn’t. Cammy stand heavy into heavy spiral arrow left a gap when it shouldn’t.
Very well said.
Honestly I feel like a lot of people are getting fed up with the game and none of my friends play it anymore casually, let alone grinding ranks.
Too much of the game is just boiled down to drive rush as much as humanly possible.
I quit grinding ranked early when I got to diamond 1 with a pretty high winrate because I felt no one even cared if you were master and I was just getting frustrated.
50 minutes of well made critique, thank you SonicSol, here's hoping the game gets better
As do i man. Year 1 patch will probably change the overall meta but a lot of the issues are with the system more than the characters. We'll just have to see. Thanks man.
I love the game despite the flaws. Compared to MK1 it's a Flawless Victory. Almost nobody is playing MK1 anymore.
48:12 watched the whole thing, enjoyed it, and learned a lot. more of this! great work bro, thank you
The crazy part for me is that day 3 when the game came out and I did my placement matches with Manon after picking beginner because it asks you if I remember correctly what your rank was in SF5 and in SF5 I was high Bronze/low Silver so that's what I chose. I went through my placement matches and got placed in Gold 1. I was so thrown off by it I dropped the character. As I got better and got higher up through the ranks I noticed that most of the time even characters that I did poorly with in placements or I felt like I was doing poorly with I would get Plat 1, Plat 3, Plat 5, or D1. I haven't reached master yet and admittedly I don't want to get it just yet because there isn't anything necessarily to fight for other than saying I did it.
to be fair, he got dragon lash because there are two 1 (down+left) inputs between S. HP and LK
also 360s can be input as 270
@@Nostalgiaforinfi I agree. but I seen 2 diagonal down left inputs between those two buttons. im sure when he was doing his qcb motion he hit forward accidentally. He may have went too far forward when he attempted to return to neutral at the start of each QCB
if you didn't know, all you need is two D+F inputs to get a DP motion and the game saw that first before super
Remember in SFV when we complained about the lack of defensive options? And then we got vshift.
Fast forward to this game and we're back to Offensive Fighter rather than Street Fighter. Same thing goes for throw loops. They went and nerfed all of them in SFV, fast forward again, they're all over SF6.
We're basically playing vanilla SFV, except with a way more oppressive mechanic thrown in with drive rush.
Inputs are the biggest issue with this game, followed by drive rush eating inputs, you should absolutely not be able to drive rush when a projectile is on screen. That shit is mad stupid.
The ranking system is absolutely busted and is the main reason high level people are farming the same players over and over again. All these 40% win rate players are hitting master, which is gross, and then just stopping making it so the opponent pool is extremely small given there are a ton of inactive master ranked players. It hurts the high level players and the people they're beating up over and over again. The ranking system is an absolute joke imo.
Why would they ever give an option to speed up the ranks? This makes placement matches absolutely useless. For reference, when I started, I won 7 of my placements and ended up in gold. The skill level thing seems pretty set in stone unless you wipe all 10 opponents you face. Again, placements are accomplishing nothing, so why are we doing them?
Idom: "this game is garbage, bruh"
It's over.
Preach it man, always thought giving safe moves on block to characters was a dumb idea.
Having no penalty for getting blocked should not still give that player an advantage.
Specials that are safe on block allows spamming with no downside.
If you get burnout some characters can safe block string you into the corner with no option besides a super, if the game doesn't eat your input...
The offense in this game is ridiculous...
This just reads like you're getting hit by Cheeky knowledge checks because the game as is doesn't have that many + moves on shield outside of the rushdowns, and that's because... they're rush downs Lmfao
@@doctordice2doctordice210 Always puzzles me people ending their sentence with a "lol", as if their statement is miraculously validated and fact checked.
That's exactly the problem, rush downs with no penalty for fucking up.
Drive impacts giving them + on block and specials that can be spammed with no penalty on block, that's the problem we are discussing here...
6:45 Haha I didn't notice that Juri had shoes!
I came back to this video because everything is so well explained
one positive about the command grab input storing for so long is that you can buffer a spd and get an easy walk forward command grab by doing a 874123[6] input and just delaying P
The combos are crazy you get juggles in mid air so you might aswell just put the controller down
NB: Dropped inputs = roll-back net code. RB drops frames to resync lag, and the offshoot of that is, with lower millisecond connections, you don't _see_ or _feel_ the lag, while the resyncing is still taking place and the input drops occurring.
I treat this game almost like an anime fighter where you need to have an offensive mindset instead of waiting for the opponent to make a mistake. The problem is some characters don't "get to party" as well as others with these system mechanics, but idk how you'd balance say, Lily, because her biggest problem is she has the best special move in the game 👀
You made a great video with good research, thanks a lot :)
Glad it was helpful!
I feel bad for all the deejay and juri mains who genuinely like the character because everyone hates their characters 😂
The rank you pick at the beginning doesn't determine your starting rank. It just determines who your first placement matches are against. If you pick Novice, it's going to put you against a bronze, then a silver, then a gold, then plats, then diamonds. If you beat all of them, it's going to put you in Diamond. Likewise, if you pick Advanced and get bodied by everybody you're going to end up in bronze or silver depending on the lowest ranked person who beat you.
The reason you got placed in diamond is because you beat diamonds.
Hey brother, don't let the fucked up folks get you down. You had every right to tell them to fuck off. I'm on your side dude
Mr. Vesper Arcade is only saying that about master rank because he didn't know how to play street fighter 5 and couldn't achieve master rank in 5. Remember he used to ask AM kidd for help. That's why Mr. Vesper said that!
Nice video, first compilation had me weak lmao
Glad you enjoyed
1. No move priorities (other than for normal throws)
2. Cannot punish properly
3. Jab, jab, jab...
4. Splatoon slide = 90% of the "meta"
5. Death Corners
6. Too few defensive options (cannot even tech roll forwards!)
7. Drive Impact counters (people just "plink" HP+HK after ever button press)
8. Throws
9. 50% damage scaling on perfect shields
10. Cannot crouch under standing attacks
11. No punish bonus for supers (yet, there for throws!)
12. Too few specials for many characters
13. Drive Gauge depletion from blocking
14. Modern controls in Ranked
15. Cannot filter Modern controls, nor leave a Modern match-up without penalty
16. Nonsensical air throws (JP with a wand in his hand has on; Manon, a JUDOKA, does not!)
17. Hit-confirms too easy
18. Game is too scrubby overall
19. Game presentation is ugly
20. One year is too long a delay for gameplay updates
The rank system for SF6 is actually a big joke. In SF5 I had to grind and get good to get to Plat and Diamond...I know, not the highest of ranks, but it felt like a journey of progression. In SF6, I was PLACED in Plat 5 from the start, which takes away a good chunk of the fun to begin with. As for drive rush, I forget which pro said it, but he nailed it:
"SF6 is a game of who's better at using drive rush to confirm a combo"
I see
Am I the only one that feels like Neutral Jump is too strong too?
I feel that the drive rush mechanic is intended to keep the game fast paced, and on paper it is a good mechanic, but the only problem that I have with it is that the reward from successfuly checking it should be much greater. The drive rush itself should put the user in punish counter state, regardless of wheter they press a button or do any move during it at all, that way, not only the combo damage from punishing a drive rush attempt would be greater, but the drive gauge use on that offensive attempt would increase.
For the health of the game I think that the DR should remain a rewarding option, but they need to increase its risk to match.
Do you do match reviews. I just need tips
So to summarize:
Juri/Deejay - Unreactable/Possibly Safe Drive Rush
Drive Rush-Jab
Drive Rush Eating Inputs
Drive Parry
Fire Ball -> Drive Rush (DeeJay/Aki/Juri)
Dee Jay's Tools and Safe Sweep
Ranked System Broken
Ken's Pressure (easy burnout)
Seems like the earl meta is just super hyper offense. Unless you're Snakeyez.
I finally have a computer for gaming. Should I buy SF6? Last one I actually played SF4.
I mean... DSP hit master rank, that's all that needs to be said about the ranking system of SF6 😂. Rank is just fake Internet points at the end of the day so that stuff doesn't really bother me much.
Mechanically speaking though there are things that drive me nuts in this game. Drive reversal being borderline useless in most scenarios (whether it be because of its meter cost, or the fact that it's -8 on block) and trying to check drive rushes only to trade, lose, or just get your input eaten are the main things for me.
I still LIKE SF6 five months later, but there are a few huge things that just stop me from LOVING it.
Raw DR needs to be minus on block, that would prevent people abusing it and reestablish the neutral game and prevent nuetral skipping BS. DR should only be plus when you cancel into it on hit then people would actually have to play footsies and actually win the nuetral before using it
bring back hit priority and make drive rush attacks the lowest priority. there i fixed it
All of these are valid points.
I'm no pro but I do like fighting games and I like to learn and actually git gud. Playing SF6 I always thought that my input problems were my fault because my super or my DP didn't come out at the right time. But the more I played the more I was conviced something was up...I would play with my friends and whenever I talk about the inputs they'd brush it over and just say that "Ryu is a slow character" (I'm a Ryu main BTW) But then other times I make unreal comebacks and they all get shocked. Now I always was suspecious of why when I do the very same thing it mostly depends on chance and it frustrated the hell out of me! This is a fighting game and it's supposed to be about the skills of the player and not anything else.
I'm glad this video is out for many to see. But unfortunately I was right about the input issue.
my theory for fixing drive rush, in a few simple steps:
1) normal xx DR is ALWAYS minus OB (and punishable from a blocked low). make it like a karin seppo. if you do an empty seppo you should be punishable. for clarity, i mean that if you press a button, that button is blocked, and then you cancel drive rush, you are minus in your opponent's face. if it was a low button that was blocked and you drive rushed, you are now at least -4 in the opponent's face
2) all drive rushes are 2 bars, including cancels (to protect combo routes but nerf it in neutral)
3) make low forward confirmable again to facilitate point 1
4) make drive rush put you in a punish counter state
5) delete JP
also, nerf all damage by 25%. it is ridiculous how easy it is to convert from a hail mary cancel into crazy corner into the craziest corner pressure of any SF game. the fact that this game can be a two- or three-touch round is just ridiculous on top of it. capcom was smoking crack when they were designing this game. it's too anime. burn woshige at the stake.
Second comment; Fuck it. This is really eye opening on how rough SF6 is to this day. But I think another issue that me and my friend sees in Ranked, is the overuse of Drive Impact., and how in a lot of situations, it can replace actual defense. I don't know about you Sol, but I see a lot of people in ladder spaming DI all the time because they don't want to block whatsoever. It may not seem important on the surface, since it's usually their problem, but the fact that DI is weirdly more used than learning how to block, shows me that the game is rewarding this kind of ignorant meter spending to get out of tough situations, instead of planning out ways to tactfully counter strategies. It sends the wrong message to new players who want to use SF6 as their first stepping stone into FGs.
Oh, also, I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom made button inputs fucked so that Casuals can do moves stupid easier. Which doesn't make sense to me because that's what Modern was allegedly for...
That's my take on it. Have yourself a nice one Sol!
you have to hold the button to check drive rush, because of the screen freeze. someone explained its the same thing with marvel vs capcom.
I have suggested a fix for drive rush that I think could be a good start to fixing what is a very poorly thought out mechanic.
I suggested changing raw drive rush to 3 bars of drive gauge, changing drive rush on hit and on block to 1.5 or possibly 2 bars. What this does is really limit how often people can raw drive rush in the neutral, especially if using 2 bars on EX fireball prior to drive rushing. If it cost 5 bars to ex fireball into drive rush that would prevent people from spamming drive rush in the neutral. The problem is not the mechanic in my opinion, but rather how often it can be used. Right now, spamming drive rush in the neutral is basically free and that's the biggest problem.
fundamentals doesn't exist in modern fighting games. I'm sorry
You have valid points, drive rush having imbalanced risk reward, parry being extremely strong, inputs being weird and the way the game lets you force strike throw are genuine problems, but you make a lot of things seem worse than they are by not showcasing all the options. The part about ranked, I just don't really get it. Casuals can have fun and climb ranks at a decent pace while serious players can have a proper ELO system it's a win-win and it's not like you can't tell which player is truly good in master, the gap between 1500 and 2200 is gigantic. Who is genuinely bothered that people can cheese being plat or diamond.
As a sidenote the main reason there are so many people in plat 1 is because that's where winstreak bonuses end its as simple as that.
I was really excited when I saw the mr system introduced since I come from overwatch 1, but it’s as you say sonic. Looking past the rank system and playing tournaments is the only way I’m feeling any improvement right now. I’m around the 1750 range and it sucks to lose hours of progress even when I win the set. Worst part is losing a match and feeling like I didn’t learn anything. Wow the juri player was doing dr in neutral I tried my best to stop it , sometimes it worked but most times it didn’t. Granted this can happen in a tournament setting as well but at least then I’m not stressing over points and focused 100% on what my opponent is doing. Great video 👍
When you did the Juri example, you didn’t use mp as the drive rush butto’n, you used jab , which basically anyone can do that.
I do agree Juri is obnoxious
10:37 there aren't many follow ups if DJ lands DR > jab from that far away. He'd have to use DR > jab > MP > DR to extend the combo, using 4 bars of meter for a combo that starts with a light attack. What DJ wants is to land DR > jab close enough so he can follow up with 4HK for real damage, and at that point it becomes checkable (sometimes). but that's where his DR > sway comes into play.
13:12 and DJ's fireball > DR is only real on block if he OD's the fireball and it requires a specific range. there's not a ton he can do off of this if he wants to be plus (he can't be in grab range and plus by doing this, like a DJ trying to DR grab after OD fireball is ALWAYS vulnerable to normal buttons). any real damage off of something like this, he'd have to spend a LOT of meter or use a super. like OD fireball (block) > DR > MP (hit) > crMP > DR is 6 bars, anything else doesn't do much damage or requires super meter or another mixup. DJ is very meter hungry
Honestly, just make everyone like Manon. Give them her DR. Also NO one gets any plus moves so the clowns have to learn to play the game. People may hate that character but I guarantee you any Manon you play against in higher ranks has GOOD fundamentals and reactions. Cause you literally have to to play her.
Before I thought I was just bad missing my input timing then I started going back to watch replays and come to find out. I wasn’t missing inputs in most cases. Some of the shit I’ve experienced is insane and needs to be fixed. The quality of life of this game ain’t okay and I’m not even talking about buffs or nerfs. Just simple system issues.
I'm glad it's not just me who's getting no input, I thought my controller was broken. Hope this gets fixed asap. Loving the game so far, but I can understand the new mechanics are broken at a higher level.
Them big ass Krusty The Klown shoes killin me😂😂😂
Overall I’m having fun in the game while waiting for my true main to finally drop. Using Jamie, DJ & Rashid in the meantime. Rashid as main. The bulk of what you said here is true especially the dropped inputs and DI/DR.
The biggest goof of this video, not to take away from SF6’s flaws. Juri’s feet is a positive. I don’t like the Nikes.
As always extremely detailed and well put together, thank you Sol.
Glad you liked it!
I called out drive rush in the beta as did many others but i decided in its current form it was a deal breaker so i stopped playing.
It needs 2 changes and it's morally acceptable.
1. Remove screen freeze during raw neutral.
This doesn't apply during blockstrings or during oki/knockdown. So i can properly press vs it.
2. Add 5-10f of startup to raw drive rush so you can visually recognize the parry startup.
Most likely 5 is enough but 10 is probably too high
I really hope the reason they havent really done anything MAJOR to the game so far is so they can collect a ton a feedback so they can fix everything at once and add DLC and just refresh the game and clean it up but I've played way to many games that have been setup in a very similar way that are just left alone but I like this game way to much and PRAY that they fix this stuff
If you are have buffered qcfs, and your opponent jumps at you, it is physically impossible to DP (if you have meter).
Even if you end on down forward, you will get a super. I have lost because of this.
I just discovered that i thought drive parry worked as you state it SHOULD work, and used accordingly to it.
I feel so pure.
The fucking Dee Jay/Apple Jacks Cinnamon bit had me wheezing.
drive rush is fine, the biggest issue is that it eats inputs and that the input reader in general is suspect, this is the games only huge issue. DR should be more normalized though, juri and dj are just dumb, nobody should be that fast and probably limit buttons you can use in dr to m and h buttons. game definitely needs some balance too, juri having a 5f sMk is ridiculous. parry should be punishable with a normal, just give you the same scaled combo they would get if they successfully parried.
My two cents here: I skipped sfv so this game has felt like a steep learning curve. I got the game.on release date and started playing ranked after 2 weeks. I did poorly on my placement matches,(got started as rookie) and with my busy work schedule I wasn't really learning the game.quick enough. 4 months later I've made it to a 2 star diamond. As soon as I picked up on the game mechanics I been hiking up at a steady pace. Yes I still struggle with some match ups(Cammy/Ryu mains), and I go through losing streaks but... Hey I'm learning and enjoying the game.
Also salute for this video, it made me so mad at SF6 I loaded the game back up from my bed I just need a few more games to go to bed salty and evil
The input leniency system is so fucked in this game. Its supposed to make inputs easier and more consistent but it does the exact opposite. I cant even count how many times I've done a DP from crouch and it comes out as lvl 1 super. (which doesn't anti air for my character). The input reader stores the fucking crouch input and so when I do DP it reads Down, forward, QCF which becomes lvl 1 super but I never fucking pressed down, I just let go of downback and I did forward, QCF.
It's crazy how I struggled just to get Gold at the end of SFV and now somehow in Diamond 2 in SF6.
It's not crazy, you can't get demoted in sf6
Same thing happened to me but it was Diamond 1.
@@blazn0you actually can get demoted in SF6 in Gold, Platinum and Diamond.