I make soft shackles for marine use all the time, and I know in theory how strong they're supposed to be, but it still blows my mind to see it like this.
Bought a hammock with these type of carabiner locks.. wondered if it was a joke.. so I had to google it.. apparently its a real thing. Mine is from AmSteel, so not same, but after seeing this.. yeah, they will do fine holding my weight 😂. Thank you for the video 😊
While that is impressive, I imagine it would be less than half of that with a more dynamic load (which is still good). I generally calculate 1/5 for a Safe Working Load.
1/5 of breaking strain is generally the calculation used to determine safe working load ratings. Whether dynamic or static, things still let go at the same breaking strain. The key part to understand is that even a 10kg load can create a tonne of force. It just depends how fast it's moving and how harsh or gently it comes to a stop from that speed.
@@TruBluOffroad I also figured out that I would prefer my cheap dyneema shackle to break before my not so cheap mast. Knowing which part you'd prefer to fail is something worth deciding in advance.
@@aaronho4242 The maker of the video commented that the shackle fails at the knot. So although, as a loop, it would be 2 x 4mm as Jeffrey Fay points out it actually fails earlier, because of the knot. I think it would be much less than 220%.
@@steelonius They really do hold around 230% of the MBS of the line, it's been tested in a controlled environment many times. They don't typically break in the knot, they break in the noose. HowNot2 has a bunch of different tests of different kinds of soft shackles tied different ways, and with different variations of dyneema. Good place to see what really occurs.
Not quite. Dyneema handles tight bends really well as opposed to steel wire rope. Yes sharp edges may cut the dyneema but that isn't really referred to as a breaking strain, similar to the dyneema having damage from wear and tear. This style soft shackle always let's go at the knot.
Yes at the knot. Theoretically with two lengths of 4mm dyneema at 1800kg BS, then used basically in a basket configuration, should give 5.2t BS but they are weakened dramatically by the fact that the strain can not possible be distributed evenly through all strands of dyneema, particularly in the knot, and also the squeezing effect of the knot is like a cutting force at that level of strain.
@@TruBluOffroad Richard Delaney from the Rope Test Lab and others have instituted a very simply formula for derating soft goods when tied in a knot. Derate by 50%. No arguing over small differences in various knots. Makes it super easy to calculate your safety factors then.
I purchased some dyneema and the size I bought should of held 220kg. But it failed with only 25. My thinking someone sold me fake. But it looked and felt just like the real thing.
Why not test it with the ends tied to the shackles? Instead of being a loop. Seems it would give more accurate results for the material itself and not the knot tying abilities.
He’s calling that a 4 mm shackle if that’s 4 mm I’ll stand corrected compare to those shackles that rope is a lot bigger then 4 mm look how far we are from the shackles four mil dyneema is not that big I’m sure
I searched for 4mm dyneema. I purchased 4mm dyneema. I received 4mm dyneema. I cut and constructed the shackle from 4mm dyneema. If I'm calling it 4mm dyneema it's 4mm dyneema. ;]
Well Scotty Malone.. I say this because from this side of the fence against those shackle the rope looks bigger than 4mm. It may just be the camera angle and those shackles are like 8-10mm And the timber they’re sitting on is a tooth pick. How big are those shackles.
@@andrewsciacca6219 firstly are you aware of how these soft shackles are constructed? They are made by splicing the dyneema rope back through itself. So they generally appear to be nearly double the thickness, but are still referred to by the thickness of the rope they're made from.
@@TruBluOffroad Thanks Scotty, it may be the way the vid is taken and the angle, but those steel shackles look rather large. As for how these work I have a full understanding. My opinion is that everyone is making and using the same design type, they all have the same unreliable problem, failure at the knot. Friction behind the knot causing heat damage as the rope is elongating causing failure.
@@andrewsciacca6219 that's not just your opinion. It's a fact. Any rope, unless cut or damaged by a sharp edge, will always break at its knot. Just like straps will always fail where they're sewn, unless damaged elsewhere to a level that causes that particular area to be weaker than where it's sewn. Every object has a weakest point and will always fail at that point. Bow shackles are no exception. If I was testing them, they'll always fail at the end of the thread on the pin. There is other soft shackle construction designs and I've given them all a go. But it seems that this basic design is still the most efficient design in terms of strength for the amount of material used. And yes the bow shackles I'm using are big. The shackles connected directly to the load cell are 25t SWL, which are used because they are the corect fit for the 50t load cell. The smaller ones are 18t and 12t.
Go to all that trouble and use a slow camera, no peak-hold scale and no post-test failure analysis? Did knot fail, sharp point on metal-shackle or cord? What knot? Improve design? C'mon man?
I'm sorry, I didn't know that when doing a destruction test I had to spend thousands on a peak hold high hertz load cell and do clinical analysis of the failure. My bad. :P
@@TruBluOffroad - iPhone records 60fps, Samsung claims 480fps. Looks like you recorded at around 10fps? A shaky 10. Most gauges have peak-hold and yours probably does too. Analysis might be as simple as showing the break? Did the break occur at the knot? Because it looks like the break occurred on the backside of the left metal-shackle, leading one to wonder if the metal-shackle was smooth or if it caused the failure? Maybe you're just not cut-out for testing?
@@tomnoyb8301 I wish it did. I've been meaning to contact the distributor to find out the cost and availability of a recording controller but probably still more money than I'd like to spend. I recorded at 60fps but uploaded at much less. Maybe there's people out there that are willing to go to great lengths for their youtube vids, but I'm not that person. My vids might be interesting to some, not interesting to others. I'm easy either way.
@@tomnoyb8301 oh and yes the shackle broke at the knot where this design soft shackle always breaks. And yes there are stronger designs which use more material. I have found this design to give the best strength/size/material used ratio. Maybe I'll do a comparison vid of the different designs with their strength, material used etc etc.
I make soft shackles for marine use all the time, and I know in theory how strong they're supposed to be, but it still blows my mind to see it like this.
The SWL is usually shown as half of the actual breaking strain.
Yes, SWL is for lifting. Recovery Load Limit (RLL) is 4/5 of the breaking strain.
Where do you get these soft shackles? Thank you.
@@leesire I make all of mine myself. You can buy soft shackles on ebay and many other places too. Ebay is probably the easiest though.
@@TruBluOffroad I saw them on Amazon. Neat stuff! Thank you
I've been considering using dyneema to re-rig the mast on my Hartley 34. Now I'm convinced dyneema is the way to go. Cheers Gray Australia
Well let me know if there's any other bits and pieces of rigging or whatever that you want to see tested.
@@TruBluOffroad ok. Thank you
Cheers Gray
is it uv resistent?
@@haynillesen
I Googled
Dyneema rope uv resistance
It is repeatedly claimed to be highly uv resistant
Cheers Gray
Thanks. Creating a back country motorcycle self rescue kit and looking for the lightest line for the job. Love to see 2mm Dyneema tested. Thanks!
get a 250kg pocket chain hoist.
@@yaykruser thanks...will look into that.
Bought a hammock with these type of carabiner locks.. wondered if it was a joke.. so I had to google it.. apparently its a real thing. Mine is from AmSteel, so not same, but after seeing this.. yeah, they will do fine holding my weight 😂. Thank you for the video 😊
I believe Amsteel is a trademark name but is still made of the same stuff. So same strength. 👌
While that is impressive, I imagine it would be less than half of that with a more dynamic load (which is still good).
I generally calculate 1/5 for a Safe Working Load.
1/5 of breaking strain is generally the calculation used to determine safe working load ratings.
Whether dynamic or static, things still let go at the same breaking strain.
The key part to understand is that even a 10kg load can create a tonne of force. It just depends how fast it's moving and how harsh or gently it comes to a stop from that speed.
@@TruBluOffroad I also figured out that I would prefer my cheap dyneema shackle to break before my not so cheap mast. Knowing which part you'd prefer to fail is something worth deciding in advance.
Impressive strength.
I'd be very interested in the strength of 5 yr old 10mm short link anchor chain that has been in the sea...
If you've got a length you can send me to test, I'd be happy to destroy it.
Cool video. . . But 2.7 metric tons is not 2700 kN.
2700kN is well over 600,000 lb. of force.
Oh good pick up, thanks. Let's get that decimal point in there. 👌
That's actually 2 x 4mm Dyneema. A single length should break @ ~1.3 - 1.4 metric tonnes. Still amazing though...
So the shackle should bust at around 220% strength
@@aaronho4242 The maker of the video commented that the shackle fails at the knot. So although, as a loop, it would be 2 x 4mm as Jeffrey Fay points out it actually fails earlier, because of the knot. I think it would be much less than 220%.
@@steelonius They really do hold around 230% of the MBS of the line, it's been tested in a controlled environment many times. They don't typically break in the knot, they break in the noose. HowNot2 has a bunch of different tests of different kinds of soft shackles tied different ways, and with different variations of dyneema. Good place to see what really occurs.
Which version of the soft shackle is this? Great video
Just a standard diamond knot style. It's not the strongest style of soft shackle but yields the most breaking strain per amount of dyneema used.
@@TruBluOffroad word! Just curious which one it was.
Breaking strain depend also on pin diameter. With pin dia 4 or 5 mm strain will be way less than 2.7 tons
Not quite. Dyneema handles tight bends really well as opposed to steel wire rope. Yes sharp edges may cut the dyneema but that isn't really referred to as a breaking strain, similar to the dyneema having damage from wear and tear. This style soft shackle always let's go at the knot.
Question for anyone who knows, What certification do I need to manufacture certified soft shackles and strops for the marine industry?
I think you just said it.
how much a 12mm will take?
A lot. If you want to send me one, I'd be happy to test it to find it's breaking point.
Damnnnn! Bust a move
That might almost lift my girlfriend she’s an XLT stands for extra large Tonya.
🤣 I'm guessing Tonya never looks at youtube then? 🤣
That's not funny where I live in America girls can be 300 plus pounds and they're all about how beautiful they are
Did it break at the knot? Square Knots are notorious for breaking.
Yes at the knot. Theoretically with two lengths of 4mm dyneema at 1800kg BS, then used basically in a basket configuration, should give 5.2t BS but they are weakened dramatically by the fact that the strain can not possible be distributed evenly through all strands of dyneema, particularly in the knot, and also the squeezing effect of the knot is like a cutting force at that level of strain.
@@TruBluOffroad Richard Delaney from the Rope Test Lab and others have instituted a very simply formula for derating soft goods when tied in a knot. Derate by 50%. No arguing over small differences in various knots. Makes it super easy to calculate your safety factors then.
2700 kg?
That's right. 👍
I purchased some dyneema and the size I bought should of held 220kg. But it failed with only 25. My thinking someone sold me fake. But it looked and felt just like the real thing.
Wow! Yeah you definitely got scammed with that one. Dyneema is super strong stuff.
Why not test it with the ends tied to the shackles? Instead of being a loop. Seems it would give more accurate results for the material itself and not the knot tying abilities.
Because this is to test the soft shackle, not the dyneema it's made of. The 4mm dyneema has a breaking strain of 1900kg according to the seller.
He’s calling that a 4 mm shackle if that’s 4 mm I’ll stand corrected compare to those shackles that rope is a lot bigger then 4 mm look how far we are from the shackles four mil dyneema is not that big I’m sure
I searched for 4mm dyneema. I purchased 4mm dyneema. I received 4mm dyneema. I cut and constructed the shackle from 4mm dyneema. If I'm calling it 4mm dyneema it's 4mm dyneema. ;]
Well Scotty Malone.. I say this because from this side of the fence against those shackle the rope looks bigger than 4mm.
It may just be the camera angle and those shackles are like 8-10mm And the timber they’re sitting on is a tooth pick.
How big are those shackles.
@@andrewsciacca6219 firstly are you aware of how these soft shackles are constructed? They are made by splicing the dyneema rope back through itself. So they generally appear to be nearly double the thickness, but are still referred to by the thickness of the rope they're made from.
@@TruBluOffroad
Thanks Scotty, it may be the way the vid is taken and the angle, but those steel shackles look rather large.
As for how these work I have a full understanding. My opinion is that everyone is making and using the same design type, they all have the same unreliable problem, failure at the knot.
Friction behind the knot causing heat damage as the rope is elongating causing failure.
@@andrewsciacca6219 that's not just your opinion. It's a fact. Any rope, unless cut or damaged by a sharp edge, will always break at its knot. Just like straps will always fail where they're sewn, unless damaged elsewhere to a level that causes that particular area to be weaker than where it's sewn. Every object has a weakest point and will always fail at that point. Bow shackles are no exception. If I was testing them, they'll always fail at the end of the thread on the pin.
There is other soft shackle construction designs and I've given them all a go. But it seems that this basic design is still the most efficient design in terms of strength for the amount of material used.
And yes the bow shackles I'm using are big. The shackles connected directly to the load cell are 25t SWL, which are used because they are the corect fit for the 50t load cell. The smaller ones are 18t and 12t.
Go to all that trouble and use a slow camera, no peak-hold scale and no post-test failure analysis? Did knot fail, sharp point on metal-shackle or cord? What knot? Improve design? C'mon man?
I'm sorry, I didn't know that when doing a destruction test I had to spend thousands on a peak hold high hertz load cell and do clinical analysis of the failure. My bad. :P
@@TruBluOffroad - iPhone records 60fps, Samsung claims 480fps. Looks like you recorded at around 10fps? A shaky 10. Most gauges have peak-hold and yours probably does too. Analysis might be as simple as showing the break? Did the break occur at the knot? Because it looks like the break occurred on the backside of the left metal-shackle, leading one to wonder if the metal-shackle was smooth or if it caused the failure? Maybe you're just not cut-out for testing?
@@tomnoyb8301 I wish it did. I've been meaning to contact the distributor to find out the cost and availability of a recording controller but probably still more money than I'd like to spend. I recorded at 60fps but uploaded at much less. Maybe there's people out there that are willing to go to great lengths for their youtube vids, but I'm not that person. My vids might be interesting to some, not interesting to others. I'm easy either way.
@@tomnoyb8301 oh and yes the shackle broke at the knot where this design soft shackle always breaks. And yes there are stronger designs which use more material. I have found this design to give the best strength/size/material used ratio.
Maybe I'll do a comparison vid of the different designs with their strength, material used etc etc.
Mr Nyobs channel is also a little short on such content. 🤔