I was a KC-135 Crew Chief at Plattsburgh when this was filmed. I was thinking about cross-training and wanted to fly. I submitted my package to be a Flight Engineer, got accepted and eventually wound up on C-141s at Travis. I Never got to go to Tempelhof though, wish I had.
I was a crew chief on heavies in the '70s and '80s including 141s. Our wing started an experimental program to address the gaps/differences between the crew chief and flight engineer preflight checklists, which all too frequently resulted in discrepancies being found by the FEs only an hour or so before block time instead of by a CC several hours before. A handful of crew chiefs were selected to team up with a flight engineer, one team per shift, and all we did was carry a copy of the flight schedule, circle the "spot" times on our shift (four hours before block time), then go around to each of those aircraft at spot time and do a full flight engineer's preflight. If a flight control pack was going to leak, better it did it at spot time rather than after crew show when a pack leak or similar all but guaranteed a busted block time. A side benefit was that CCs and FEs got to know each other much better, a lot of info and experience was exchanged, and team work developed. The AF was hard up for FEs at that time, I was eligible to cross train, and some of the FE's told me I should do it. It really started sounding good to me and I seriously considered it. However, not that she discouraged it, in fact she was always very supportive, but I had a wife and two preschool aged kids at the time and I thought me being away so much wouldn't fair to her and the kids, so I didn't do it. Not that I regret the path I ended up taking, but I sometimes think about not doing the FE thing and wonder on what other paths it would have taken me. As for the spot team experiment, eventually they got enough of us checked out on it that they stopped assigning FEs to it and left it up to teams of us CCs to do it on our own each shift, kind of like how tow team operated. I was an E-4 then E-5 at that time and got assigned to be the shift's spot team leader pretty frequently, which I enjoyed for the freedom and change of pace. We/they were still doing it when I got a BOP approved, reenlisted, and PCS'ed to SAC about a year later. I don't know if and for how long it continued after I was gone, but it was a very good idea IMO.
I flew all europe and the US in these when I was in the USAF back in the early '80s. What a great plane. Damn, I HATE that she had to go! The C17s may now fill this roll but they will NEVER replace the C141s. She is truly missed.
cscook69 I agree totally. So sad that they are now a thing of the past. We used to love them coming into Alice Springs, (Australia) every month. They would always draw a crowd.
There is a chance this was actually me making that takeoff. I was there right around that time (have to go check my logbook), and I did the takeoff from the right seat. I wish the video ran longer so we could see the climb out. We barely made it if that was me. There was a mistake made in our gross weight calculation due to a an incorrect kg->lbs conversion, so we were actually significantly over-gross. I remember seeing grass underneath us just after rotation, and I was sure we were going to start hearing the approach lights on the departure end of the runway hitting the bottom of the airplane. The terrain slopes up on that departure, and we must have effectively been in ground effect significantly longer than usual, which is probably the only reason we accelerated and were able to maintain a very shallow climb. I've told this story many times over the years because it truly scared me that day. Good times. Good times. To all of you involved in any way in the C-141 world over the years, thanks for all you did, and it was an honor to serve and fly with some of you!
Crew Chief C-141B, 437th MAW, Charleston AFB SC 1982-1984. TRT, AKA throttles balls to the wall with brakes locked, that plane was shaking like it would fall apart. Brakes released, and we shot down the runway and jumped into the air.
These were one of the workhorses of the Vietnam war. They had such a unique sound that I never even had to look up to identify one when it flew over the base at Bien Hoa.
Same paint scheme as the one I took into Clark AFB, Philippines in mid-1980s... That thing really jumped when he released the brakes - 2:01 See the nose jump up!
I was a C-141 Flight Engineer in the early to mid 80s at McChord AFB, WA. We flew into Clark many times. If we headed out to the Pacific, we would always end up at Clark at some point during our trip.
@@deadstick8624 How many degrees did the nose point down going into Clark? We sat facing the rear of the jet, staring at a cargo net covered load in the rear of the plane ( I took a "Hop" ). I remember a turn and a really steep descent into Clark! Flight originated out of Korea...
@@JungleYT Every Pilot flew differently. I was a Commercial-Licensed Pilot when I was a Flight Engineer, which simply means that I could get paid to fly and it helped me to convince the higher-ups to cross-train into Flight Engineer. Before, I was in Flight Simulator Maintenance. One of the Sims I flew all the time, to check out its readiness, was the KC-135. I was really good at it. One of the Pilot Examiners took me up and let me fly and do two touch and goes in it. Along with my many hours of private flying, it was a piece of cake for me. I had to preface this story, you'll see why. On one trip, we flew to Edwards AFB, CA. This was the only time that I was there, and it was a dream come true. Anyway, you know that they have a runway that is like 3 miles long PLUS the packed dirt runway that extended out from the concrete runway by many more miles. Anyway, the Pilot (Aircraft Commander) was making the landing, which is basically the longest runway in the world. We were light, and the C-141 has a high-lift wing. You could point it nose-down and it will still fly level at engine-idle. Well, he was a little high and he started to point it down, at engine idle, and he would not descend because of the characteristics of the wing. So we floated down the runway, losing very little altitude, and all he would do is push the nose more forward, which increased the airspeed and with the high-lift wing it kept us from descending. Instead of doing a go-around, he persisted. Obviously, because of his ego. Can you imagine trying to explain to all of his peers why he couldn't easily land on the longest runway in the world? That Flight-Examiner I mentioned, he taught me a trick to keep that from happening. He says, and I have done this many times with the small planes that I have flown, is to bring the nose up to level and let the airspeed bleed off and the plane will settle down to the runway at a level attitude. It works like a charm. So, I'm sitting there at the Flight Engineer console wishing that he knew that technique, but he obviously didn't. So we floated down the runway for over two miles. I was sure he was going to do a go around, but he didn't. I was very concerned, but being a Staff Sergeant, an enlisted man, I dare not say anything. I really wanted to just tell him to bring the nose up and let the airspeed bleed off to keep us from floating. But instead, I was thinking of what I would tell the higher-ups if we ran off the runway and crashed. Well, we finally touched down, not far from the end of the runway. When we finally came to a full-stop, we were (and I'm not making this up) just 3 FEET from the end of the runway. The other Engineer had to go out and direct him in a 180 degree turn, to keep him from going off the edge. He probably made the worst landing, definitely the longest landing without crashing, in the history of Edwards AFB. So, like I first said, every pilot flew differently.
@@deadstick8624 LOL Then that might explain why we descended so steeply - The pilot was trying to lose altitude due to the wing characteristic? There wasn't much cargo on our plane, except for us and the junk stuffed in the back. Thus, we were flying light? I was also a sim tech at McGuire and rode with one C-141 pilot who was goofing around and tried to put it down fast, but missed the runway. So, this is making more sense to me, now...
@@JungleYT Man, it seems to happen more than I thought. Thanks for telling me that. I learned a lot of good flying techniques from that Examiner Pilot I mentioned. His advice made me an even better pilot.
When we flew them, with that paint scheme, we just called them "The Lizard". Many of us hated that paint scheme. Most of us liked the White and Gray paint.
@@deadstick8624 I preferred the camo wrap to the old white/gray two tone. The wrap looked more military IMO. Speaking of lizards and ugly pain jobs, in the mid '70s the AF tested a bizarre color scheme on a 141. The paint was a very flat, rough textured combo of two of a darker green-gray and a lighter limey green, with a wavy line separating the lighter flat limey green belly from the darker flat green-gray upper fuselage. The 141 that wore it for at least 3 - 4 years years (67-0021) picked up the inevitable unofficial nickname "The Leaping Lizard". It was ugly enough when it was first painted, but it got uglier as the years went on. The paint had the texture of sandpaper, and anything that leaked on it such as oil, hydraulic fluid, whatever, stained it. The stains accumulated over the years. It was also next to impossible to color match when any exterior parts were replaced, so as time went on it sported an increasing number of mismatched exterior parts, including a goofy looking mismatched radome. At some point in the early '80s the experiment ended and "Balls 21" went through the standard evolution of camo wrap and flat gray over the years. We never heard the official explanation for that strange paint job. The rumor was it was a test of some kind of anti-radar paint, but a 141 would be a strange airframe to test it on, especially just a regular, run of the mill, line hauler that flew all over the world presumably giving away the secret. Edit - there are many photos of The Leaping Lizard in all its flat greenish-gray glory and a brief discussion of it on the 141 Heaven website.
There were no C-141's with '68 tail numbers. There were a few YC's with '61 tail numbers that were later converted to C's, then the main production airframes ran from '63 - '67. According to the USAF tail number listing, 68-0032 was an F-111.
As a 141 CC in the '70s, I spent way too much time at No Hope Pope, including on one occasion as part of a team that got stranded there for 47 days on what was supposed to be an 11 day deployment. We humped around the clock for 11 days then did nothing but sit and wait for 36 days with no mission and no idea from day to day what were supposed to do or if/when we were being recalled. It's funny now, but it wasn't so funny then.
Not much difference in the sound, but there are some differences in the engines themselves. There are many variants of the JT3D/TF33 family. The TF33-P-7 engines on the 141's had heavy-ass bifurcated main cowlings to duct the bypass air around the engine and dump it into the exhaust section rather than just dumping it overboard aft of the compressor section like most fans. Those ducted cowlings helped contribute to the P-7's thrust rating, which was higher than all but one other variant in the series. Some think the ducted main cowlings made the P-7's sound different than JT3D, the military version of which was the TF33-PW-102. They sound very similar to each other IMO. Both have that typical low bypass fan growl at higher EPR settings.
The green camo wrap was probably my favorite just from a military coolness POV, but from any other standpoint it didn't make much sense. Were C-141s and C-5s ever going to try to hide in the woods? If you want them less visible, something that does that in their natural habitat (the air) would make more sense, and flat light gray was more effective for that than woodland camo. Woodland camo makes no more sense for heavy aircraft than it would for Navy warships.
hello Roland Pogander, I'm admin of the modelkitindo channel, I ask permission to hanging this video on my channel as a teaser, and I will enclose your channel name on the video and link in description ... thank you
@@obaba1928 The II-76 was a rip off of the C141. C141 was designed in mid-1960, design accepted early-1961 and the first prototype (61-2775) rolled in August 1963. The II-76 was designed in 1967 and the first flight was March 1971.
As a former crew chief on 141s, the sound of those TF33s is music to my ears. I come to RUclips every once in a while just to hear it again.
I hear that, C141B crew chief out of Travis.
Salute!
I was a C-141 crew chief and later an AWCAS flight engineer…absolutely loved hearing TF-33’s climbing out!
Me too. 437th MAW CAFB
I was a KC-135 Crew Chief at Plattsburgh when this was filmed. I was thinking about cross-training and wanted to fly. I submitted my package to be a Flight Engineer, got accepted and eventually wound up on C-141s at Travis. I Never got to go to Tempelhof though, wish I had.
I was a crew chief on heavies in the '70s and '80s including 141s. Our wing started an experimental program to address the gaps/differences between the crew chief and flight engineer preflight checklists, which all too frequently resulted in discrepancies being found by the FEs only an hour or so before block time instead of by a CC several hours before. A handful of crew chiefs were selected to team up with a flight engineer, one team per shift, and all we did was carry a copy of the flight schedule, circle the "spot" times on our shift (four hours before block time), then go around to each of those aircraft at spot time and do a full flight engineer's preflight. If a flight control pack was going to leak, better it did it at spot time rather than after crew show when a pack leak or similar all but guaranteed a busted block time.
A side benefit was that CCs and FEs got to know each other much better, a lot of info and experience was exchanged, and team work developed. The AF was hard up for FEs at that time, I was eligible to cross train, and some of the FE's told me I should do it. It really started sounding good to me and I seriously considered it.
However, not that she discouraged it, in fact she was always very supportive, but I had a wife and two preschool aged kids at the time and I thought me being away so much wouldn't fair to her and the kids, so I didn't do it. Not that I regret the path I ended up taking, but I sometimes think about not doing the FE thing and wonder on what other paths it would have taken me.
As for the spot team experiment, eventually they got enough of us checked out on it that they stopped assigning FEs to it and left it up to teams of us CCs to do it on our own each shift, kind of like how tow team operated. I was an E-4 then E-5 at that time and got assigned to be the shift's spot team leader pretty frequently, which I enjoyed for the freedom and change of pace. We/they were still doing it when I got a BOP approved, reenlisted, and PCS'ed to SAC about a year later. I don't know if and for how long it continued after I was gone, but it was a very good idea IMO.
This plane has earned it's place in history.
These things used to blow my eardrums out when I was stationed at Ft.Lewis, McCord AFB was right next door.
@joesar5879 Actually I do.
I flew all europe and the US in these when I was in the USAF back in the early '80s. What a great plane. Damn, I HATE that she had to go! The C17s may now fill this roll but they will NEVER replace the C141s. She is truly missed.
cscook69 I agree totally. So sad that they are now a thing of the past. We used to love them coming into Alice Springs, (Australia) every month. They would always draw a crowd.
cscook69 I agree. I was a dedicated crew chief for 16 years A/B. I miss my plane.
Remember these as a kid they were stationed at wpafb right by my house oh how they scream. So beautiful
There is a chance this was actually me making that takeoff. I was there right around that time (have to go check my logbook), and I did the takeoff from the right seat. I wish the video ran longer so we could see the climb out. We barely made it if that was me. There was a mistake made in our gross weight calculation due to a an incorrect kg->lbs conversion, so we were actually significantly over-gross. I remember seeing grass underneath us just after rotation, and I was sure we were going to start hearing the approach lights on the departure end of the runway hitting the bottom of the airplane. The terrain slopes up on that departure, and we must have effectively been in ground effect significantly longer than usual, which is probably the only reason we accelerated and were able to maintain a very shallow climb. I've told this story many times over the years because it truly scared me that day. Good times. Good times. To all of you involved in any way in the C-141 world over the years, thanks for all you did, and it was an honor to serve and fly with some of you!
Crew Chief C-141B, 437th MAW, Charleston AFB SC 1982-1984. TRT, AKA throttles balls to the wall with brakes locked, that plane was shaking like it would fall apart. Brakes released, and we shot down the runway and jumped into the air.
The Starlifter is my favorite it was sleek and fast, I hate to see them taken out of service and end up in the boneyard!
not in the boneyard anymore, all scrapped except for 15 in museums
These were one of the workhorses of the Vietnam war. They had such a unique sound that I never even had to look up to identify one when it flew over the base at Bien Hoa.
Same paint scheme as the one I took into Clark AFB, Philippines in mid-1980s... That thing really jumped when he released the brakes - 2:01 See the nose jump up!
I was a C-141 Flight Engineer in the early to mid 80s at McChord AFB, WA. We flew into Clark many times. If we headed out to the Pacific, we would always end up at Clark at some point during our trip.
@@deadstick8624 How many degrees did the nose point down going into Clark? We sat facing the rear of the jet, staring at a cargo net covered load in the rear of the plane ( I took a "Hop" ). I remember a turn and a really steep descent into Clark! Flight originated out of Korea...
@@JungleYT Every Pilot flew differently. I was a Commercial-Licensed Pilot when I was a Flight Engineer, which simply means that I could get paid to fly and it helped me to convince the higher-ups to cross-train into Flight Engineer. Before, I was in Flight Simulator Maintenance. One of the Sims I flew all the time, to check out its readiness, was the KC-135. I was really good at it. One of the Pilot Examiners took me up and let me fly and do two touch and goes in it. Along with my many hours of private flying, it was a piece of cake for me.
I had to preface this story, you'll see why.
On one trip, we flew to Edwards AFB, CA. This was the only time that I was there, and it was a dream come true. Anyway, you know that they have a runway that is like 3 miles long PLUS the packed dirt runway that extended out from the concrete runway by many more miles. Anyway, the Pilot (Aircraft Commander) was making the landing, which is basically the longest runway in the world. We were light, and the C-141 has a high-lift wing. You could point it nose-down and it will still fly level at engine-idle. Well, he was a little high and he started to point it down, at engine idle, and he would not descend because of the characteristics of the wing. So we floated down the runway, losing very little altitude, and all he would do is push the nose more forward, which increased the airspeed and with the high-lift wing it kept us from descending. Instead of doing a go-around, he persisted. Obviously, because of his ego. Can you imagine trying to explain to all of his peers why he couldn't easily land on the longest runway in the world?
That Flight-Examiner I mentioned, he taught me a trick to keep that from happening. He says, and I have done this many times with the small planes that I have flown, is to bring the nose up to level and let the airspeed bleed off and the plane will settle down to the runway at a level attitude. It works like a charm.
So, I'm sitting there at the Flight Engineer console wishing that he knew that technique, but he obviously didn't. So we floated down the runway for over two miles. I was sure he was going to do a go around, but he didn't. I was very concerned, but being a Staff Sergeant, an enlisted man, I dare not say anything. I really wanted to just tell him to bring the nose up and let the airspeed bleed off to keep us from floating. But instead, I was thinking of what I would tell the higher-ups if we ran off the runway and crashed.
Well, we finally touched down, not far from the end of the runway. When we finally came to a full-stop, we were (and I'm not making this up) just 3 FEET from the end of the runway. The other Engineer had to go out and direct him in a 180 degree turn, to keep him from going off the edge. He probably made the worst landing, definitely the longest landing without crashing, in the history of Edwards AFB.
So, like I first said, every pilot flew differently.
@@deadstick8624 LOL Then that might explain why we descended so steeply - The pilot was trying to lose altitude due to the wing characteristic? There wasn't much cargo on our plane, except for us and the junk stuffed in the back. Thus, we were flying light? I was also a sim tech at McGuire and rode with one C-141 pilot who was goofing around and tried to put it down fast, but missed the runway. So, this is making more sense to me, now...
@@JungleYT Man, it seems to happen more than I thought. Thanks for telling me that.
I learned a lot of good flying techniques from that Examiner Pilot I mentioned. His advice made me an even better pilot.
With that color scheme it is called Starlizard
When we flew them, with that paint scheme, we just called them "The Lizard". Many of us hated that paint scheme. Most of us liked the White and Gray paint.
@@deadstick8624 I preferred the camo wrap to the old white/gray two tone. The wrap looked more military IMO.
Speaking of lizards and ugly pain jobs, in the mid '70s the AF tested a bizarre color scheme on a 141. The paint was a very flat, rough textured combo of two of a darker green-gray and a lighter limey green, with a wavy line separating the lighter flat limey green belly from the darker flat green-gray upper fuselage. The 141 that wore it for at least 3 - 4 years years (67-0021) picked up the inevitable unofficial nickname "The Leaping Lizard".
It was ugly enough when it was first painted, but it got uglier as the years went on. The paint had the texture of sandpaper, and anything that leaked on it such as oil, hydraulic fluid, whatever, stained it. The stains accumulated over the years.
It was also next to impossible to color match when any exterior parts were replaced, so as time went on it sported an increasing number of mismatched exterior parts, including a goofy looking mismatched radome.
At some point in the early '80s the experiment ended and "Balls 21" went through the standard evolution of camo wrap and flat gray over the years.
We never heard the official explanation for that strange paint job. The rumor was it was a test of some kind of anti-radar paint, but a 141 would be a strange airframe to test it on, especially just a regular, run of the mill, line hauler that flew all over the world presumably giving away the secret.
Edit - there are many photos of The Leaping Lizard in all its flat greenish-gray glory and a brief discussion of it on the 141 Heaven website.
Miss this jet, crew chief at Travis 82 to 88 68-0032!
There were no C-141's with '68 tail numbers. There were a few YC's with '61 tail numbers that were later converted to C's, then the main production airframes ran from '63 - '67. According to the USAF tail number listing, 68-0032 was an F-111.
Sounds like a dc 8
Here's a better title for your video: "C-141 Taxiing"
I was at Lackland when this was filmed.
You know those are run hard!
The C5's mini me even though the C141 came out before the C5.
C14 starlifter you may not be here in 2017 but we will remember you in our minds 😭😭😭😢😢😢😢😢😳😳😳😥
TRT set prior to brake release. FE, 16 years, 6,500+ flight hours.
I was on launch crew at Norton in case they had engine trouble when one took off we would say another hog in the smog
Ah, the good old IE, where in the '80s we used to say "Never trust air you can't see"
Somewhere, there's a salty old ass Colonel. "man that starlifter was the jam"
Great shots of a fence.
Oh that airplane!!!! I miss her!!!!!!!
Wish I had a dollar for every time I've loaded, or off loaded a 141
Amazing aircraft
Miss those old planes. Pope afb 91-95
As a 141 CC in the '70s, I spent way too much time at No Hope Pope, including on one occasion as part of a team that got stranded there for 47 days on what was supposed to be an 11 day deployment. We humped around the clock for 11 days then did nothing but sit and wait for 36 days with no mission and no idea from day to day what were supposed to do or if/when we were being recalled. It's funny now, but it wasn't so funny then.
What's the sound difference between a Boeing 707 powered by JT3D engines and a C-141 Starlifter.
Not much difference in the sound, but there are some differences in the engines themselves. There are many variants of the JT3D/TF33 family. The TF33-P-7 engines on the 141's had heavy-ass bifurcated main cowlings to duct the bypass air around the engine and dump it into the exhaust section rather than just dumping it overboard aft of the compressor section like most fans. Those ducted cowlings helped contribute to the P-7's thrust rating, which was higher than all but one other variant in the series. Some think the ducted main cowlings made the P-7's sound different than JT3D, the military version of which was the TF33-PW-102. They sound very similar to each other IMO. Both have that typical low bypass fan growl at higher EPR settings.
One question, why did the heavy lifters and bombers, helicopters do away with the camo paint scheme and now all grey?
General Merrill McPeak. He preferred "air superiority grey".
The green camo wrap was probably my favorite just from a military coolness POV, but from any other standpoint it didn't make much sense. Were C-141s and C-5s ever going to try to hide in the woods? If you want them less visible, something that does that in their natural habitat (the air) would make more sense, and flat light gray was more effective for that than woodland camo. Woodland camo makes no more sense for heavy aircraft than it would for Navy warships.
hello Roland Pogander, I'm admin of the modelkitindo channel, I ask permission to hanging this video on my channel as a teaser, and I will enclose your channel name on the video and link in description ... thank you
Sounds like 707
And the D c 8
And looks like the Il-76!
All the planes mentioned besides the Russian one have a different version of the same basic engine, the JT3
@@obaba1928 The II-76 was a rip off of the C141. C141 was designed in mid-1960, design accepted early-1961 and the first prototype (61-2775) rolled in August 1963.
The II-76 was designed in 1967 and the first flight was March 1971.
Berlin
I say bring them back with PW2800's.
too late, all scrapped except for 15 in museums