i was an electrician in london 10 years ago, i wasnt expensive, and i did a proper job, but as cheap as i was i still got undercut on lots of jobs, and sometimes found people coming back to me months later because what the other guy did had gone wrong for various reasons. stick to your principles so you can sleep at night.
I've just had one done at the house I rent. Guy was excellent. Don't know what he charges but he took off a lot of sockets and pendants. Took the consumer unit cover off and tested all the circuits and bonding. He was a really nice chap too, happy to chat about what he was doing and showed me the readings etc. The person who actually owns my house owns around 100 properties so he must be a pretty decent guy using a good electrician like this. They do exist!!
they have to take cover off socket outlets etc to do a visual for possible damage or maybe a wire dropped out the visual is also most important light fittings etc etc its all part and parcel of the job charging depends on what area you live in as well i used to be sparky fully qualified city and guilds but it got rediculas what they were asking for in the time span aloted for each job
@@spookyboo3164 Yes, exactly my point. Jordan is talking about some electricians not even going on to the property and writing a certificate. My point is, the guy who came to my house had no idea that I knew a little about what was involved. They could have spent half an hour and said it was all ok, but they didn't. They did a really good and thorough job and hats off to them.
Had a number of customers tell me the price is over double what others quote. Maybe I should have educated them at the time and seeing this encourages me to do so, thank you for sharing :)
Exact experience that we have at present. Sticking to our pricing and not getting in to price wars. I have found the Landlords that are willing to pay for a decent report are also the ones that want any Remedials, if any are identified, completed to current standards and don’t then look to cut corners there. I have same pricing model of either half day or whole day for domestic installations.
maybe you could make a new EICR video? I love to watch them and maybe you could also use it to show customers what it takes and what they get when they hire you.
I Feel you Bro and as a Electrician for over 30 years I lose a lot of EICR due to the fact clients say I'm too dear as 'Bodge it & Leg It' quoted £100.00, I just walk away and say good Luck! as I as rule of Thumb Charge £180.00/£200.00 for a Small Flat, 2 Bed House £260.00 and it goes up from there after if extra Bedrooms, Garages & Out building etc are included as I check for Earthing, sample accessories socket points, switches points, light fitting points etc...never a 2 hour job as you have you I.R. Continuity & loop testing, & a pet hate for me is that the boards are never correctly Labeled up for circuits locations so there's also Faffing around working out whats protection What! which is what good Sparkies do... so I would rather lose to cheap quotes than, than follow the narrative of those 'Drive By' so Called 'Electricians' I like to earn money ..but not Dishonest money! A good point you made about LIM on Certs & Reports, that should not be ruled out as a complete test and outcome should not be valid, as it is not complete & another date to complete what was LIM ie someone is working from home at the time of 1st EICR and a circuit for P.C. could not be tested etc. to complete the report. which is the next step we have to push, as LIM on circuits that were not tested don't mean its safe on a Report issued by 'Bodge it & Leg It' that say Satisfactory does it! as Landlords, sorry 'Land Persons' excuse my PC, want thing done as cheap as possible buts as we good Electricians want thing done as they should be, so we can sleep well at night with our families and know we did a what we were paid for, as if you take short cuts & cut corners you have to think to yourself what if it was my Home with my Family & Kids etc Great Vid as I feel the Battle ahead as we have to stand Strong and push the bar up Higher with the for Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020. as the Government have listened before and hopefully will amend what is needed to Bring in a Gold Standard of the Land Persons EICR Regard Tony Jelade Electrical Services
I’m with you on this. We have lost a lot of work from the price war. I even approached 5 estate agents in my local town and they all said I was to expensive. Customers have also come back to me after losing the job to ask for a second opinion after the cheap “spark” quoting massive prices for remedial work. Most of the time the remedial work isn’t even needed.
For many years now an electrician working for a company is instructed when working on social housing that he as to do 4 EICR a day, they inform me that they can't do 4 in a day to the correct standards, yet the NICEI c take no action, G.j.morris Electrical
The only way they can do it is to put limitations through the report. I was told to do the same on social housing properties but didn't last long (3 days) with the company that employed me.
Hi, you're absolutely right in this case. I'm based in London and experienced that competition. I had situations when I quoted £250+ for EICRs and customers took £80-100 guys with totally worthless paperworks and ridicurosly high quotes for fabricated remedial works... They were coming back to me crying about that situation. I don't know what is wrong with our trade, but we received amazing gift from goverment and we all could easily earn good money on EICRs and remedials and improving the standards of electrical installations in rental properties, complying a mission of keeping safe for everyone. Unfortunately some untrackable idiots are milking for easy shit money without thinking about future. We could easy charge £500+ for this, but what we can do... In my opinion we really should take example of Gas Safe and apply that to our industry. Thank you for this video, greetings from London!
Couldn't agree more with what you have said. I teach electrics at WMD ELECTRICAL TRAINING and am constantly being told by electricians that they are doing 4 or 5 EICRS a day. They are in the Sub contract area of the industry where many local authority housing councils, associations etc pay such a low fee that they are in effect forced to do this. If this bad practice is going to change it needs to be at the top with the IET, Competent Person Schemes, Councils and Associations policing it correctly. It should take 4 to 8 hors including all paperwork as you have stated, to do the job correctly. Sampling, used for large commercial and industrial installations should not be applied to Domestic installations at all. Glad you have voiced this concern for all concerned. Once again, another great video. Well done.
Hitting this problem all the time in my area,North East England,we were quoting from £140/£180 for a full EICR and were constantly been given the too expensive story at that price,i rarely do them now, so many guys just sitting writing them out with a cup of coffee that no one wants to pay over £100,its just not worth the amount of hours to do one properly and get paid peanuts
I,m now a licensed taxi driver in London. Was a sparky over 30 years. It’s called the Uber effect. People just want cheap. They say; Uber drivers are taxi drivers too; why don’t you drop your prices? No one cares about your overheads, working to the regs or your training. Unfortunately it is a race to the bottom.
I was taken on for a few weeks by a well known electrical systems manufacturer. They had recently had an EICR completed by a firm that I thought did hand towels and such like but have branched out into electrical testing. They had quoted a little over £20,000 for the remedials, a small part of which was replacing all the breakers in three 32 way boards due to insufficient breaking capacity. I looked at the sheets, all the boards were fitted with 10k breaking capacity breakers and alarms went off in my head. I was wtf, I looked at the pfc and they had it at 41KA. Now even though one of the boards was inside the sub station there's no way your getting that high a fault current. I redid the tests and sure enough it was 4.1KA they'd not read the decimal point, on all three boards. What worries me is what were they going to replace them with, far as I know 10k is max breaking capacity for 60898 or 61009 or am I wrong?
I totally agree with your approach to completing an EICR in terms of the time taken to do it correctly and to be able produce an accurate report. I think the letting agents are the people who need targeting and educating in what's involved in producing a report that actually reflects the condition and scope of the wiring system. From my recent experience the letting agents seem quite happy to accept the £100-00 "Drive-by EICR" Surely they have a duty of care firstly for their tenants and secondly for the landlords who they happily take their monthly commission from.
I’m with you. Integrity and honesty are the priority. We don’t want the business of any customer who wants to cut corners. They are not worth our time. Stick to your prices. Quality will win out in the end.
I consider myself an educated customer having watched hundreds of hours of RUclips electrician videos. I don't want a cheap job I want a good job but it's hard to find a contractor you know you'll get this from. I think this brand has potential and if you ever setup in the north west let me know. People are willing to pay when they know!
I worked for a company a few years ago that had a housing association company for a client. The housing association said they only wanted visual inspections done on their properties for new tenants moving in literally just a tick sheet! and that they would get another company to check it periodically 5 years. It was stopped soon after and full EICRS done when new tenants move in at an empty property where the sockets were tripping and the housing association wasn't going to pay for the visit as they said we should of picked the fault up in which the reply you insisted on visual checks only and no eicrs so we are not responsible for the installation.
Good video Jordan I hope this brings awareness. I done an EICR recently on a 2 bed property in Reigate, Surrey for a landlord. The tenant had said a young lad had spent just 15 minutes there and the tenant informed the landlord of this. So I got a call from the landlord to go and check the property again, which is refreshing and not to make a generalisation but a lot of landlords probably wouldn't have bothered with a second opinion and another EICR if it had a satisfactory pass. I'm glad the landlord did because what I found would have made any electricians jaw drop. The meter tails where completely burnt out on an old Wylex rewireable board I couldn't even undo the tails they were welded onto the main switch terminals (wish I could post a picture on here). No bonding to water and gas main when he stated it was in place and no earth on lighting circuit which he also stated was in place with an R1 R2 reading with metal light switches/light fittings installed. I doubt he had even opened the fuse board to have a look. The whole EICR system needs a shakeup how are so called electricians getting away with this.
I'm gas engineer and people are doing "boiler service" for as little as £30 and landlord gas safety checks for £30... boiler service should be a full strip down and clean and can easily tot up well over £100-£150. Gas safety checks take time checking everything! Annoying when I say to customer "service will be £120 + service kit (gaskets etc) £60 total £180... And they act like your ripping them off cos they have already had a quote for £35! Really piss me off and I nearly packed it all in cos of it!
Approximately £150 - £200 for a 2/3 bedroom house upto 10 circuits then £25 per circuit there after. We lose a lot of EICR's even at that rate. Lots of companies carrying out EICR's where we're based as a massive university with student let's around the area but some of the prices we've lost too are ridiculous. We've tested properties which have been tested by these companies and suprise suprise our readings/reports differ massively.
I am so glad you put this video on. I am an electrician living in a rented property, but my landlord has arranged for another electrician to do the EICR. When he got in touch with me to arrange when to do it, he said it would take an hour. My first thought was that’s never long enough to do a test and inspection. Let’s see what the report he will produce says. But your video made me feel better, and that I am not alone in how long it takes me to do a thorough EICR. Half a day/full day per EICR.
Excellent video and stick to your guns! My old boss used to say... 'They'll remember the quality long after they've forgotten the price'. You can't buy back you're reputation. Once it's lost, it'll never come back.
I'm with you Jordan, It's supposed to be a report of the condition of the electrical installation, and is it satisfactory for continued use not just take some loop readings and RCD tripping times.
Hey Jordan, have you ever thought of providing a generic sample report? To show the level of work someone may expect from your company. Even if it's just emailing a PDF, people will stew in their decisions when comparing it to the single piece of paper they'll receive. You don't have to provide it every time, but at least have it as an option. I see it as the easiest way to educate your hesitant customers. Love the content and can't wait to see what y'all are coming up with. Keep up the great work!
Hey Jorden, welcome to our world.... i'm a heating engineer and we have had this race to the bottom of cheap quoting for boiler installs for years, the industry overall including the manufacturers have tried to get tougher but if some guy under cuts you and chucks a boiler in, then does not register it or answer his phone when it goes tits up who is culpable. Good rant, very familiar.
Heating industry is suffering since Capita took over running Gas safe. Likewise with NICEIC, now its run as a business rather than a consumer protection charity. Standards and professionalism have taken a serious downward turn. Electrical industry suffers more, as their regulations are not Law.
Unfortunatly there are many "electricians" out there who are willing to put thier name to a report which has limited or forged results. They will get away with it until the installation they said is safe ends up seriously injuring or killing someone and they end up being done for fraud or potentially manslaughter. All we can do is try to educate the person ordering the work (as your do) to try to inform them of the differences
I had to shop a electrician to a letting agent due to the report he gave to one of their landlords, on certsure he wasn't even registered to carry out an eicr for the prs, And his report was 95% limited to every check with results not even filled in.
Thanks Jordan for these video's I'm a relatively new electrician but with Napit and had the blessing to cut my cloth in North London with my brother in law who was a very experienced electrician, he held to the same standards that you do and as I do now. Most of the properties I come across are not new builds so I'm spending a good day with older properties which have alterations, signs of wear and tear etc. I often find that a good reading can be obtained say on an R1R2 test of a ring circuit once you really figure out how the circuit is configured, but this takes time, so how drive by EICR's can be done is beyond me, particularly when the purpose of an EICR is to determine if the installation is safe for continued use. Keep the video's coming they are very helpful.
@@cnelson1338 End of the day the customer pays more for overheads for running a big company. Im a one man band and happy to charge the rate i do for my customers.
Hi Jordan, I was the guy giving you a thumbs up from the end of your drive as I was working next door on Friday 😂 didn’t want to pester you for a ride in the Tesla but I will say here I’ve been a long time watcher, so to pull up there made my day. Enjoy your weekend mate, all the best in growing your business this year 👍💪
If everyone is moaning about these cheap tests, then who is actually doing them, name them. But, if you want to blame someone, look no further than your governing body, either the NIC or napit, they are seeing the standard of reports when they inspect them and letting them get away with it.
Totally with you on this. I have a friend who is a Landlord and I've quoted her for her EICR's and she's happy with that and I'm doing her flats later this week. However she's let me know that on a landlords forum she's on, landlords are expecting to be quoted no more than £80 REGARDLESS of the size of property !! I've already been approached by one of these "company's" who want me to work full time doing 4 or more EICR's a day. Needless to say I told them where to go. Yes I'm losing business, but I'm not going to get involved in this war, cut my prices and cut corners. I'm not putting my name to a report that isn't finished, because it's my business on the line, if there is a subsequent fire or injury and my report said it was safe. Not happening. I think the rules need tightening. I couldn't even offer EICR's until I'd taken 2391-52, as Napit wouldn't sign off my reports, nor my insurance company. Personally I go over and above whats required. Full EICR report, with photographs and an attached document that describes my recommendations - and remember an EICR can ONLY result in recommendations, even C1's - it's up to the Landlord if its acted on, and it's their responsibility if they don't.
I practically stopped doing Eicr's approx 3/4 years ago. If i do one nowadays it's a days pay. All done thoroughly, correct test results recorded & any remedials required. Safety is of utmost importance. It's only fair to the tennant, whilst protecting the Landlord and his property. Everybody wins in this scenario. :-) Otherwise, I say, "GET SOMEONE ELSE"
This is brilliant. I had the same issue recently with a customer. Told me my price sounded steep, explained almost identically to what you’ve said here. Got the job and after being there five hours she said she couldn’t believe people quoted £60 for a ten way board
Ok Jordan. I’m interested in how I should go about when ringing around and ask the right questions etc, what to reveal etc. Maybe do a video on it? 🤷♂️ I’m residential owner, I know my CU needs replacing, it’s an old crappy Wylex one, the lights in bathroom upgrading to IP safety rated and change kitchen lights so I can install HUE lights and maybe a fan in the bathroom and probably a few other small bits. I’ve lived in my property for 10 years or so and not got round to doing this so I’m thinking also an EICR to be done first so that I can ensure that no other issues arises / crops up and ensures the work is done safely. This is my conundrum Should I just ask for an EICR and not mention the other stuff to prevent the cash register and get impartial review / wait for them to actually see what needs doing. Or be up front and say I need new cu, house checking over with the EICR and other bits doing. I’ve educated myself by watching your videos and other YT electricians. Eg I’ve learnt that I need to get the main electricity company in to put an isolator so that the old CU is safe, and the earthing needs doing properly. Plus I have no idea if the new CU will fit in the small cupboard! I find it frustrating that I want to be up front but I know there are con men out there and I don’t want to get ripped off. Yea I’m going to do the usual ask people I know who they would recommend. From watching this video I’ve leaned, an good EICR could be a minimum 3-4 hours Labour, photos in report etc. If I lived in Cambridge I’d give you a ring but unfortunately your other end of the country lol. Edit Also I know that I want my CU installed nicely all tailed off, I don’t want it looking like a rats nest, I feel that I should be checking on my electrician as he cracks on with the job as I can’t exactly alter it afterwards haha Edit 2 - sorry for the long reply I’d love to hear your thoughts on how to tackle it.
Ask what extent of sampling they will be doing? Will they be testing 100% of circuits, how long will it take? Will they need access to all the sockets, light switches etc, what limitations will they put on the report? This should give you an indication of what they are like.
Some landlords have unwittingly been breaking the law for years. And most estate agents have been offering incorrect information enabling them to do so. The 'Landlords and Tenants Act 1985' requires that the electrical installation in a rented property is: safe when a tenancy begins and maintained in a safe condition throughout the tenancy. The only way to do this is to carry out a Electrical periodic inspection's The term 'Qualified Person' means a person who has been trained to carry out a series of Electrical testing procedures. Who has a firm understanding of Electrical craft principles and a understanding of current electrical wiring regulations. ( An electrician who has completed a number of City and Guilds course etc) This work is not notifiable to building control so does not require a company who is a member of the competent person's scheme. (NICEIC ,STROMA, NAPIT ETC) So don't be fooled into thinking, that these companies are the only ones able to carry out the electrical testing.
Couldn’t agree more with Jordan. Let’s all help our clients by maintaining our standards and carrying out EICRs out properly. Do the job properly so the client can be confident their rental property is safe for their tenants.
Good rant Jordan👍, I avoid eicr’s like the plague. Dirty run down rental properties where landlords have had builders and odd job men messing with the electrical installation and now are surprised when you give them a report with lots of writing on it. I get a bit of work from a Facebook page where some joker is advertising “from£75”. It’s grim up North I usually charge min of £140 for two up two down terrace.
I avoid them now, cant be arsed with tiptoeing around people and dealing with all of their "life shit". Only do empty properties prior to being rented out or moved into. That way I can set up my music, laptop, food supplies and relax.
@@Woodkin007 An unoccupied EICR can be a genuine pleasure. Peace and quiet and an easy job to get on with for a few hours. on the flipside I did an occupied one yesterday for HA where the tenant was a hoarder with mental health issues, couldn't get at anything but the client accepted the limitations. I literally ran out of accessible stuff I could test or inspect after an hour which was OK by me as I couldn't wait to get out!
Min £120 is cheep for two up two down terrace . I got quoted £213 for 1 bed flat and I was will to pay that as a landlord. I cant sleep at night if it was not check right, My insurance would not pay out otherwise as a landlord that is worthy of a hart attack if insurance dont pay up
Nick Bundy had something like this happen where an agent didn't pay him/the landlord. its a joke that some electricians just con people its what you get though then they are "professionals"
Remember that one, it was an estate agent who asked him on behalf of the landlord, (weird) Because landlord didn't pay them, then they wouldn't pay him. Legality is questionable as his contract is with the estate agent and the work was carried out as requested.
Had something similar a year ago when I was testing a flat (EICR) for a client when the agent popped in to take pictures puzzled he asked what I was doing? He was even more shocked when I was PAT and FAT testing too which he never heard about before?🤔 The agents are just as bad in my experience, 2 weeks ago I was changing an extraction fan and a TT driving blue suited fake Rolex wearing idiot was going over the potential sale with my client when he said he knew a bloke who could write out a certificate for him🙄
I'm in Surrey and charge £35.00 per circuit for vacant properties and £40.00 for occupied. Like you, I give my clients an honest and comprehensive report.
I live in Surrey and have a small rental studio flat. Was charged £220 + VAT by a local company whilst the property was vacant. Based on the number of circuits that's about the same as you would charge. He was there for 1h 20m so either he didn't do it thoroughly or some of the circuits took 5 mins - simple spurs to the emersion, shower, storage heater for example. I wanted the certificate from a proper electrical company to cover my backside. I completely get that you guys have overheads and stuff but in terms of all trades, so not picking on sparks, my long experience is that it's hard to find someone that actually wants to work a full day for a fair price as opposed to half a day for 2 days pay. Customers are much more likely to be the victim of poor tradesmen than the other way round in North East Surrey !! If only the You Tube sparks like Artisan worked where I live I would employ them every time!!
@Mark Sesum 1 power ring, 1 cooker radial, 1 heater radial, 1 shower radial, 1 emersion radial 1 lighting radial He did the EICR as he went so within the 1h20m. I had the CU changed 3 years ago and the installation certificate was in the meter cupboard so that might have helped ! Hey, I am not really complaining because I picked a biggish local company with an office and multiple vans, so overheads etc. They also wanted £110 to sort the advisories which were a mixed colour label on the CU and a bit of grommet around the cable entry at the back of the CU - 10 min job - both of which should have been done by the guy that I paid good money to fit the new CU. I guess the point I was trying to make is that my experience with trades is that even though I pay fair (high!) prices I don't get great quality. NOBODY wants to work past 3.00 or finish a job properly. The guy that re-wired my own house never labelled the board and forgot to do the main bonding ! I have now bought a Brother printer and done the CU myself. I have also labelled everything in my house that doesn't move ! lol Brilliant toy to play with!
I agree 100% with what you have said about EICR prices. We should stick to our standards and pricing after all we are doing them a favour with our expert assessments. The more detail that is recorded on these certificates the more the landlords (or anyone else asking for an EICR) are protected which some do not understand or don't want to understand and this all takes time and a conscientious approach. After all we are trained professionals and should value ourselves as such. Do not join the race to the bottom, its not worth it. I know of a couple of electricians in the Midlands who are now serving prison sentences because of taking short cuts in testing and inspection work. The NICEIC even sent letters out to its members as a result of the court case, the media attention and sadly the death that resulted.
Jordan, just watched several of your videos today which i feel have helped me a lot with the EV charging course I'm doing at the moment. This video I have definitely had experience of (and makes me see red), The Drive by EICR. The last customer who i gave a price to told me I was twice as expensive as the first price she had received, and after the first 'sparkie' did the EICR she ended up with a quote for remedial works for over £1,500.00 for a partial rewire, that she didn't need. It turned out the guy was only there for half an hour and for 15 minutes of that he was drinking tea. It takes me 15 minutes to get set up with dust sheets, tools, tester and paperwork. But listening to your excellent rant and the comments of other decent sparkies, well it's good to know there are still proper trades people out there, so yes as was said on a previous comment 'stick to your principals'. And keep making the vids
I'm a landlord and had one done in the summer. Agent offered deal about £120, same for every property, although they obvs differ in scope. Mine's a small 1 bed flat with 5 circuits. I read all the relevant regs and EICR coding, so could monitor what they did. It was obvious from the report that they wanted work and coded it accordingly. They put the recommendations in the wrong place instead if just reporting. One circuit they claimed was not possible to identify. I wanted an upgrade and an honest report of the condition, but they just wanted to replace MCBs with RCBOs in old plastic enclosure! When I wrote back querying each individual point, referring to the regs by number, the agent never got a reply. I had to find my own person, from hundreds of miles away, and luckily he was honest, thorough and decent. Charged about the same as the drive-by guys quoted, but did a full CU and earthing upgrade. It's just the same as the MoT scams - you believe and trust what they say and do and it's hard to know what's true. I take my cars to the council depot for MoTs as they don't do any work on private vehicles.
@@MatthewHawkyard pay attention to him , he sometimes looks stoned 😅 and is always chilled , so you are saying he ain't? Let's just keep Jordan out of China to avoid any chaos if u know what I mean
Great video. I'm a landlord and agent and I find it frustrating when landlords want EICRs done cheap. It takes time and unless they ramp down the time taken it can't be done while having a test result that reflects the reality of the installation tested.
Hi Jordan. I made the following comment to one of Mark Allison's vids, but I think it's worth saying it here too... My Mrs came home from her sister's today, making a point that a friend of hers in a rented property had their electrics checked with no messing about. Apparently the guy was in and out in about 10 mins... all done! She told me this as if it's a good thing, hinting towards my far slower (and more comprehensive) approach. So I opened up GN3 and asked her what massive chunk of work the guy doing the testing must have skipped. The conversation is ongoing and my blood boileth over!
@@artisanelectrics Apparently she has been told that she "needs" a new CU. My guess is that a plastic one was originally installed, and there is nothing actually wrong with it. I need to ask a few questions!
We run a computer/electronic shop, specialising on components level. Sadly we too suffer similar issues. A big thumb up for maintaining your values, just like we do here at iTC. 😊👍👍👍
I fully agree. Ive been testing ONLY for over 7 years. Im fast and efficient but to do 4 or more in a day is ridiculous. The paperwork alone takes its time. Too many rogue sparkies and estate agents looking for cheap. Move with the times guys. Inflation rises yet dodgy sparkies keep our rates low. Enoughs enough
Work that "needs doing"...............yeah right, please explain why a CU installed under 17th edition regs needs replacing with an 18th edition CU, apart from the £500 odd quid the job costs???
A 17th edition ccu would not need updating to 18th. If the ccu is double insulated, all that would be required is to note that down as a departure and recommend it be enclosed within a fire resistant enclosure
I completely agree with everything you have said in your video, too many people these days cut corners for the sake of making a few quid. It can be potentially dangerous when unsafe wiring is left undetected because people won't pay for things to be done properly. I always watch you videos and think you're doing a great job, keep up the great work and keep teaching people how it should be done....
I’m in a rental, and whilst here the landlady has scrimped on electrical work, adding an additional board (for the new circuits) rather than replacing the old wired fuses! So I have both. No EICR here yet. I’ll be watching the electrician if and when we get one.
Wired fuses are not automatically an EICR 'fail'. There may be lots of other issues if she has scrimped on works, but wired fuses themselves are compliant with the regs.
Hi Jordan. I watched your video rant on the price of EICR’s. As a fully qualified and NICEIC registered electrician myself, I give the customer the analogy of an EICR being much like having an MOT on their car. If the garage just took a look at the car, had a quick walk around and said, yep, everything is absolutely fine, then would you trust their (a) judgement and (b) professionalism? I know I wouldn’t. Another guide I give them, is that “time wise” it should take approx 45 minutes per DB to do the basic tests, PFC, Ze, check main bonds and start the paperwork, PLUS, approx 20 minutes per circuit. In other words, an EICR of a 10-way DB should take around 4 hours. The flip side of so called “dodgy” electricians carrying out super quick EICR’s, is that I am receiving a good number of their EICR’s for a second opinion and more often than not, the remedial works too. Keep up the good work! ATB. Paul
Report your concerns to the IET and get their resources behind this. We have electrical safety standards for a reason, not for profiteering. On a side note, I can understand why an ageing sparky or someone with injuries might choose to move on to only doing the EICR and no longer be "on the tools", but someone who qualifies only to do EICR for easy money does call into question the authorisation and oversight process. Good point well made.
I'ts still 20% of accessories opened and inspected as a minimum and if there are no nasty surprises then fine but they are the minority and for the purposes of pricing that extra time has to be reflected in the cost, surely Luke?
I think for a premium standard service, checking 10% of accessories is below acceptable standard. That would only be 5 items in my house with 50 accessories. I think for a top end, premium EICR a higher percentage should be checked.
I totally get it. I sympathise. It's a (an understandable) problem. I respect your stand which will help maintain your reputation (in the long run). It can only be a good thing to educate the service user/s. Stay safe. Paul Newmarket, Suffolk.
In Germany, the costs are around 120 - 250€, depending on the size of the flat / house and the electrical installation. We have similar problems with this here. Unfortunately, only a few companies do a really thorough EICR (we call it an E-check). Many companies give their employees just 1 - 1.5 hours for it, which is definitely too little for a thorough check.
As a landlord I got my Eicr done 12 months ago... got quoted 5k based on a 20min visit saying I needed rewiring whole house! The next electrician charged £700 including work 1 day,( large property) Crazy difference.
Great , don’t ever change what you do. My company wants me to work quicker but I take pride in what I do and the job is properly done and will never catch fire. Some EICR are a waste of time in some properties as landlords never have enough money to pay for works.
I'm soo glad you said this, I worked for one of these companies and it didn't last long, I ended up having a panic attack! Now I spend at least half a day on one and actually enjoy it...kind of..
Might be interesting for viewers to note that an EICR is really an MOT for your electrical installation and all the same pitfalls that have applied to MOTs over the years now apply to EICRs...time, cost, quality, tester's experience etc...perhaps the lead industry body (or the govt!) will introduce 'spies' in the camp as they did for MOTs. You may never know who the 'customer' actually is!
Totally agree that the race to the bottom is a problem. Opting out is the right thing to do. Although, I wonder if there is a way to offer a discount on remedial work following an EICR? Might be a sweetener for customers who accept a drive by EICR just to be compliant, but not want to risk a cowboy job when it comes to remedial work? I'm not an electrician, but i'd imagine doing remedial work at a property where one of your guys did the EICR saves a bit of time because you go there knowing exactly what to expect.
I was having this very conversation with a lad that I went to college with. he told me that the company he works for are spending an hour per EICR 😡😡 I was fuming and his justification was on the remedial work aspect as you said, but I work with another electrician who has the same stance as me and want to provide an accurate truthful report and as you have said this takes time and time has to be reasonably priced which is proving more and more difficult
Is it safe to say that as an Electrician your reasonable price should be no more than £20per hour? Or may be at the very very maximum of £27 per hour? (Coz the national wage is just under £9 per hour, and remember people are working very hard to earn this £9)
We have the same problem with pre-purchase building surveys. We have 35+ years experience so we charge more than a building surveyor who just qualified. Most clients are only interested in price not quality.
I absolutely agree with you because recently I was called to re-do an EICR that someone did for a 4-bed house, believe it or not for 20mins. How on earth will anyone complete an EICR for 20min? He belongs to NICEIC, what am I suppose to do, report him because he obviously did not carry out test because the report he produced was full of errors.
I have a small number of landlords I work with who are willing to pay what's needed to get the jobs done. The majority of others that call me up get given the price and I never hear from them again. Like you said, there are too many offering to do them cheap and that's all most landlords seem to be interested in.
My dad is a private landlord. He had a firm do a couple of EICRs. They were cheap, but not ridiculously so. I'm no electrician by I was a part P competent person for a year, so know a bit more than average. They came back with over a grand of remedial work, but wouldn't quote specific regulations from BS7671. Had things like "Pendant style light fittings in kitchen". Asked the tenants how long they had the power off for testing. Zero minutes! I wonder how they did the insulation testing? Got a second firm to redo the EICRs and even paying twice, it ended up costing less than if we'd done everything the first firm claimed was required.
I'm with you Jordan. As soon as they say they have had someone offer to do it for x amount of £'s I Inform them that they are very unlikely to be doing a proper job, wish them good luck and let them crack on. I've told every letting agency that has contacted me so far to jog on to the next mug as they want to dictate a low price.
Jordan remain honest and keep your dignity. If your name go on a dishonest EICR your the man in the dock if it goes wrong. Personally I would walk away from an ICR that I couldn't do properly and be 100% honest with . I have never done any work that doesn't need doing . I've lost count of amount of work I've lost and then had to go and put right because the client took the cheapest option , quality over quantity . These cheap ICR are done at the CU . I had clients tell when I've done ICRs the last person never did a 5th of the work you have done , I've simply replied who do you trust now ?
In the dock, there's the problem, when was the last time you heard of a bogus spark being hauled over the coals for shoddy, illegal work ? Doesn't happen mate, all these " sparks " running around in there white vans, all with bent cards. Industry is full of them . Bring back 5 year City and Guild apprenticeships, in England , spend £50 in tescos and you get a card.
Hi Jordan, had 26 jobs taken out of my hands on a government job and turned out all the TNCS supplies turned into TT supplies when the new guy. looked at the first two and copied and pasted the results to them all ...your Dublin friend....nevin
With the odd person saying half a day is too long. Half a working day is 4 hours, not including travel time. It also depends on the size of the property. I charge £140 for a typical 2/3 bed house. Anything bigger I’d split down to price per DB if applicable and per circuit. You cant just walk in and visual everything and list everything as a limitation, that’s just bad practice.
Totally agree with you, we have had some interesting chat with people on this topic, when you give them the price it’s always “I can get it for half that”!! But, there is another point to this, we were given another EICR to look at by a customer, seemed a bit vague, so looked into who did it. It was basically a general builder, registered under a Part P scheme. So, what’s their ‘qualification’ to under take an EICR? For Part P all you need is Initial Verification. To me, that’s not really enough to be inspecting someone else’s work. From my experience there are a few out there who are not adequately experienced / qualified to do these inspections.
Most definitely being affected, we are losing a lot of EICRs because of it. Recently a local customer sent me an EICR carried out by an electrician which had no number of points, no R1/R2s and a Ze which exceeded the maximum for a TNCS system. Thankfully he was smart enough to have withheld the payment as he smelt a rat with the guy who did the test. Although more expensive than the previous guy, the landlord accepted our cost. When we got to site and were still there over 2 hours later, the tenant complained saying the previous guy was there for less than half an hour! (there were 9 circuits in this installation) We always make clear to people that they do not have to use our company for the remedial work once we have issued the report. Last year, I quit working for a property management company after we lost out on several EICRs, guys doing 1 bed flats for £60.00+vat each. Also the same electrician told the management company that ALL plastic CCUs have to be replaced and were giving them code 2s every time
Ultimately if the inspection is being done for the good reasons (safety, improvement, genuine interest) then cost can't be the main differentiating factor. By the way, do you cover Oxfordshire?
Stay calm and do your best ! Thank you for the integrity to do the proper service to the customer ! You can sleep better at night knowing you did it right !!!!
Great rant Jordan. We need an industry standard set out by our registered bodies of what a standardised EICR MUST include... eg full board and bonding test, testing of every circuit and to what extent is acceptable, a minimum acceptable sampling percentage of fittings etc etc Then it's more of a level playing field. Customers don't understand the difference of a pointless 'drive by' EICR verses a professional methodical EICR, they only understand the price difference!
Having watched many consumer type programmes on TV over the years (Watchdog etc) they often had really bad practicing "builders", plumbers, electricians etc. However, no matter how bad they were, they still carried on even when confronted by the TV personnel. My question is - Why do the various trades in the building industry, mechanics, and other manual jobs not lobby the government to make it illegal to operate without a licence which can be easily removed if they are shown to be cowboys who not only rip off people but often put them in danger. The worse that these people can expect is that the boss is sometimes listed as not able to be a director of a firm but they do so and often shut down the firm in question and then instantly start up exactly the same thing under another name. The licence system could operate in a similar way that you cannot drive without a licence but would also require a sufficiently big enough punishment (such as imprisonment, loss of their own property etc) to act as as a real disincentive to operate without the requisite licence. This may seem like another layer of bureaucracy that may not be welcome but if it means that you get rid of the cowboys from your industry and give people more confidence when employing a tradesman (or woman) for any job that needs doing in a house, car, garden etc there surely could be no argument against it. There should be a simple means of reporting questionable practices and potentially removing people from being able to operate in the fashion that they are currently doing. If there are insufficient consequences for this behaviour and while good tradespeople, their trade organisations and the government cannot or will not be bothered to implement the kind of thing I suggest then this will carry on regardless with people not trusting tradespeople, being stressed about finding someone trustworthy and relable and having the opinion that no-one can be trusted. Is that what decent tradespeople actually want or are happy to accept ? It's a sad state of affairs when it could so easily be resolved.
Who polices the licences though? Long gone are the days when a man from the Ministry could turn up mid job and inspect the work you're doing...(if that ever happened in electrics, it certainly doesn't happen on civil works anymore). I doubt a building inspector does spot checks on building work these days either.
I keep getting asked to do EICR's and my method of getting them is to not want to do them in the first place. It's surprising how many people are searching for sparks that don't like doing EICR's to actually do their EICR's. Though there are equal amounts of people I've refused to work for because they want a £50 EICR or no EICR at all and just work done and not signed off. The last EICR I got asked to do has cost the landlord a 70% rewire, new consumer unit and while that has been going on around 40k of work done to the property due to the last tenant turning it into a grow and DIY'ing electrics/ kitchen. Safice to say the EICR was free and some how I ended up doing the work even though I didn't really want the job.
Most of the EICR’s I see online take forever with shaking of heads, tut-tutting and “what’s going on here?” Then there’s connect Line this to N that, L that to N this and divide by 4. Measure CPC R, divide by 1.67etc. The car industry came up with an automated system years ago called OBD which means auto-electricians doesn’t need to check every individual circuit with a multimeter. Why haven’t we a similar system for home electrics yet? Why isn’t there a tester which can be plugged into several sockets at once to test the ring or lighting circuits autonomously? Finally, LED’s have drastically reduced the current needed in lighting so why are we still using 230v, with CPC!, for minimal loads with every lamp stepping down the lethal voltage to LED compatible voltage? We don’t need ring circuits any more. The only circuit which really needs 230v is the kitchen, probably a radial. Electrics should be the most modern of home industries. It’s stuck in the ‘50s. There I’ve said it!
It would be an interesting video to visit a property after a "cheap" EICR, review their findings and list of remedial work, and demonstrate what they have missed by cutting corners.
we had a similar set up, customer rang up wanting a EICR on a 4 bed. gave him a estimate price over the phone, they are very hard to price as you cant see the installation. always ask the question are there any off peak boards ? any external power/ submains going out to sheds or garages. anyway we gave him a price of £200 was probably cheap but it was of the top of my head, but he turnt round and said i am the most expensive quote he had received he was quite rude and blunt over the phone about it all. straight away i said thank you sir and put the phone down not worth the hassle. occupied (rental) houses are the worst, you tell the tenants i will be here for around 3 - 4 hours depending on the size of the installation, and i explain that power will be going on and of for testing purposes etc. they get so high rated about it all and complain, even worse now that everyone is working from home. people just expect we are going to be there for 30 mins and thats it.
Love your honesty, we got screwed when we moved to our house, £300 for an "EICR" and a couple of other jobs, Paperwork never arrived and now i've started to look deeperI i now realise he didn't test anything! OH well i'm older and wiser now.............Do you cover surrey by any chance?
People don't get that a Gas Safety is to check one item ie the boiler, we are checking all the electrics throughout the whole house! Gas safety prob 1 hour work vs EICR 4-8 hours depending on size of house.
I aways compare it to an MOT on your car.... I say to the client, would you take your car to a garage that offered you an Mot for a tenner.... They seem to understand much better this way.... It works for me...
you are the best, yes this what l explain to all the people that ask me for EICR's, and they complain about the prices. We pay insurances, tools, certificates etc.plus we need to survive, this trade is going down unfortunately :(
We are having exactly the same issue with people doing EICRs for less than £100. I've taken the same decision as you, we won't lower our prices in a race to the bottom either. I try to do an unbiased and thorough job which takes 3 to 4 hours. I even had a landlady telling me last week that it should only take 2 hours maximum! One problem is that anyone who calls themself competent can carry out EICRs, they don't even have to be a member of a competent person's scheme or insured. Several people around here are doing it and undercutting everyone. I also think that many landlords don't help the situation, pushing for a low price when they only want a piece of paper.
@@lukeblake8849 Only for employee liability not public liability , given many of these inspectors operate in the gig economy chances are no insurance or inadequate insurance, plus of course 3 years own the line trying to track them down will be near impossible
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If a sparky is submitting 4/5 eicr reports a day then the body they are affiliated to should question this and go and inspect their work
no chance they want the membership fees too much .
i was an electrician in london 10 years ago, i wasnt expensive, and i did a proper job, but as cheap as i was i still got undercut on lots of jobs, and sometimes found people coming back to me months later because what the other guy did had gone wrong for various reasons. stick to your principles so you can sleep at night.
Totally agree, thanks for sharing your thoughts
I've just had one done at the house I rent. Guy was excellent. Don't know what he charges but he took off a lot of sockets and pendants. Took the consumer unit cover off and tested all the circuits and bonding. He was a really nice chap too, happy to chat about what he was doing and showed me the readings etc. The person who actually owns my house owns around 100 properties so he must be a pretty decent guy using a good electrician like this. They do exist!!
they have to take cover off socket outlets etc to do a visual for possible damage or maybe a wire dropped out the visual is also most important light fittings etc etc its all part and parcel of the job charging depends on what area you live in as well i used to be sparky fully qualified city and guilds but it got rediculas what they were asking for in the time span aloted for each job
@@spookyboo3164 Yes, exactly my point. Jordan is talking about some electricians not even going on to the property and writing a certificate. My point is, the guy who came to my house had no idea that I knew a little about what was involved. They could have spent half an hour and said it was all ok, but they didn't. They did a really good and thorough job and hats off to them.
Had a number of customers tell me the price is over double what others quote. Maybe I should have educated them at the time and seeing this encourages me to do so, thank you for sharing :)
Exact experience that we have at present. Sticking to our pricing and not getting in to price wars. I have found the Landlords that are willing to pay for a decent report are also the ones that want any Remedials, if any are identified, completed to current standards and don’t then look to cut corners there.
I have same pricing model of either half day or whole day for domestic installations.
maybe you could make a new EICR video? I love to watch them and maybe you could also use it to show customers what it takes and what they get when they hire you.
I Feel you Bro and as a Electrician for over 30 years I lose a lot of EICR due to the fact clients say I'm too dear as 'Bodge it & Leg It' quoted £100.00, I just walk away and say good Luck! as I as rule of Thumb Charge £180.00/£200.00 for a Small Flat, 2 Bed House £260.00 and it goes up from there after if extra Bedrooms, Garages & Out building etc are included as I check for Earthing, sample accessories socket points, switches points, light fitting points etc...never a 2 hour job as you have you I.R. Continuity & loop testing, & a pet hate for me is that the boards are never correctly Labeled up for circuits locations so there's also Faffing around working out whats protection What! which is what good Sparkies do... so I would rather lose to cheap quotes than, than follow the narrative of those 'Drive By' so Called 'Electricians' I like to earn money ..but not Dishonest money!
A good point you made about LIM on Certs & Reports, that should not be ruled out as a complete test and outcome should not be valid, as it is not complete & another date to complete what was LIM ie someone is working from home at the time of 1st EICR and a circuit for P.C. could not be tested etc. to complete the report. which is the next step we have to push, as LIM on circuits that were not tested don't mean its safe on a Report issued by 'Bodge it & Leg It' that say Satisfactory does it! as Landlords, sorry 'Land Persons' excuse my PC, want thing done as cheap as possible buts as we good Electricians want thing done as they should be, so we can sleep well at night with our families and know we did a what we were paid for, as if you take short cuts & cut corners you have to think to yourself what if it was my Home with my Family & Kids etc
Great Vid as I feel the Battle ahead as we have to stand Strong and push the bar up Higher with the for Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020. as the Government have listened before and hopefully will amend what is needed to Bring in a Gold Standard of the Land Persons EICR
Regard
Tony Jelade Electrical Services
I’m with you on this. We have lost a lot of work from the price war.
I even approached 5 estate agents in my local town and they all said I was to expensive.
Customers have also come back to me after losing the job to ask for a second opinion after the cheap “spark” quoting massive prices for remedial work. Most of the time the remedial work isn’t even needed.
Agreed this start happening now
For many years now an electrician working for a company is instructed when working on social housing that he as to do 4 EICR a day, they inform me that they can't do 4 in a day to the correct standards, yet the NICEI c take no action, G.j.morris Electrical
The only way they can do it is to put limitations through the report. I was told to do the same on social housing properties but didn't last long (3 days) with the company that employed me.
Hi, you're absolutely right in this case. I'm based in London and experienced that competition. I had situations when I quoted £250+ for EICRs and customers took £80-100 guys with totally worthless paperworks and ridicurosly high quotes for fabricated remedial works... They were coming back to me crying about that situation. I don't know what is wrong with our trade, but we received amazing gift from goverment and we all could easily earn good money on EICRs and remedials and improving the standards of electrical installations in rental properties, complying a mission of keeping safe for everyone. Unfortunately some untrackable idiots are milking for easy shit money without thinking about future. We could easy charge £500+ for this, but what we can do... In my opinion we really should take example of Gas Safe and apply that to our industry.
Thank you for this video, greetings from London!
Agree with everything you say in this video, we have exactly the same issues in our business
Oooooh ,, A full colour PDF report, with Pictures,,, A true Artisan right there
Couldn't agree more with what you have said. I teach electrics at WMD ELECTRICAL TRAINING and am constantly being told by electricians that they are doing 4 or 5 EICRS a day. They are in the Sub contract area of the industry where many local authority housing councils, associations etc pay such a low fee that they are in effect forced to do this. If this bad practice is going to change it needs to be at the top with the IET, Competent Person Schemes, Councils and Associations policing it correctly. It should take 4 to 8 hors including all paperwork as you have stated, to do the job correctly. Sampling, used for large commercial and industrial installations should not be applied to Domestic installations at all. Glad you have voiced this concern for all concerned. Once again, another great video. Well done.
David Savery done a video about this same subject where he goes through all the mistakes and contradiction on one of these worthless bits of paper.
@Lister Smeg or * has done innitt ;- )
I know a bloke down the pub called Roy, he's pretty good and can do remote EICR's which are guaranteed a satisfactory outcome. £40 Inc VAT 👌
haha! we all know a bloke like that!
Thanks for the shout out Brad. I'll give you a discount on your next EICR.
Wow genius
@@roydowling2542 No worries Roy, appreciate that mate 👍 see you soon when the pubs open back up
Have you got his number?
Hitting this problem all the time in my area,North East England,we were quoting from £140/£180 for a full EICR and were constantly been given the too expensive story at that price,i rarely do them now, so many guys just sitting writing them out with a cup of coffee that no one wants to pay over £100,its just not worth the amount of hours to do one properly and get paid peanuts
I,m now a licensed taxi driver in London. Was a sparky over 30 years. It’s called the Uber effect. People just want cheap. They say; Uber drivers are taxi drivers too; why don’t you drop your prices? No one cares about your overheads, working to the regs or your training. Unfortunately it is a race to the bottom.
I was taken on for a few weeks by a well known electrical systems manufacturer. They had recently had an EICR completed by a firm that I thought did hand towels and such like but have branched out into electrical testing. They had quoted a little over £20,000 for the remedials, a small part of which was replacing all the breakers in three 32 way boards due to insufficient breaking capacity. I looked at the sheets, all the boards were fitted with 10k breaking capacity breakers and alarms went off in my head. I was wtf, I looked at the pfc and they had it at 41KA. Now even though one of the boards was inside the sub station there's no way your getting that high a fault current. I redid the tests and sure enough it was 4.1KA they'd not read the decimal point, on all three boards. What worries me is what were they going to replace them with, far as I know 10k is max breaking capacity for 60898 or 61009 or am I wrong?
I totally agree with your approach to completing an EICR in terms of the time taken to do it correctly and to be able produce an accurate report. I think the letting agents are the people who need targeting and educating in what's involved in producing a report that actually reflects the condition and scope of the wiring system. From my recent experience the letting agents seem quite happy to accept the £100-00 "Drive-by EICR"
Surely they have a duty of care firstly for their tenants and secondly for the landlords who they happily take their monthly commission from.
I’m with you. Integrity and honesty are the priority. We don’t want the business of any customer who wants to cut corners. They are not worth our time. Stick to your prices. Quality will win out in the end.
Charge what you want for your time.
If you're self employed, dont fight for chump change.
I consider myself an educated customer having watched hundreds of hours of RUclips electrician videos. I don't want a cheap job I want a good job but it's hard to find a contractor you know you'll get this from. I think this brand has potential and if you ever setup in the north west let me know. People are willing to pay when they know!
Thanks a lot! I totally agree
@@artisanelectrics same let me know know if you ever set up in the northwest👍🏿👍🏿
I worked for a company a few years ago that had a housing association company for a client.
The housing association said they only wanted visual inspections done on their properties for new tenants moving in literally just a tick sheet! and that they would get another company to check it periodically 5 years.
It was stopped soon after and full EICRS done when new tenants move in at an empty property where the sockets were tripping and the housing association wasn't going to pay for the visit as they said we should of picked the fault up in which the reply you insisted on visual checks only and no eicrs so we are not responsible for the installation.
Good video Jordan I hope this brings awareness. I done an EICR recently on a 2 bed property in Reigate, Surrey for a landlord. The tenant had said a young lad had spent just 15 minutes there and the tenant informed the landlord of this. So I got a call from the landlord to go and check the property again, which is refreshing and not to make a generalisation but a lot of landlords probably wouldn't have bothered with a second opinion and another EICR if it had a satisfactory pass. I'm glad the landlord did because what I found would have made any electricians jaw drop. The meter tails where completely burnt out on an old Wylex rewireable board I couldn't even undo the tails they were welded onto the main switch terminals (wish I could post a picture on here). No bonding to water and gas main when he stated it was in place and no earth on lighting circuit which he also stated was in place with an R1 R2 reading with metal light switches/light fittings installed. I doubt he had even opened the fuse board to have a look. The whole EICR system needs a shakeup how are so called electricians getting away with this.
I'm gas engineer and people are doing "boiler service" for as little as £30 and landlord gas safety checks for £30... boiler service should be a full strip down and clean and can easily tot up well over £100-£150.
Gas safety checks take time checking everything!
Annoying when I say to customer "service will be £120 + service kit (gaskets etc) £60 total £180...
And they act like your ripping them off cos they have already had a quote for £35! Really piss me off and I nearly packed it all in cos of it!
Approximately £150 - £200 for a 2/3 bedroom house upto 10 circuits then £25 per circuit there after.
We lose a lot of EICR's even at that rate. Lots of companies carrying out EICR's where we're based as a massive university with student let's around the area but some of the prices we've lost too are ridiculous. We've tested properties which have been tested by these companies and suprise suprise our readings/reports differ massively.
I am so glad you put this video on. I am an electrician living in a rented property, but my landlord has arranged for another electrician to do the EICR. When he got in touch with me to arrange when to do it, he said it would take an hour. My first thought was that’s never long enough to do a test and inspection. Let’s see what the report he will produce says. But your video made me feel better, and that I am not alone in how long it takes me to do a thorough EICR. Half a day/full day per EICR.
🤓 can’t wait to hear the result!
Excellent video and stick to your guns! My old boss used to say... 'They'll remember the quality long after they've forgotten the price'. You can't buy back you're reputation. Once it's lost, it'll never come back.
I'm with you Jordan, It's supposed to be a report of the condition of the electrical installation, and is it satisfactory for continued use not just take some loop readings and RCD tripping times.
Thanks
Hey Jordan, have you ever thought of providing a generic sample report? To show the level of work someone may expect from your company.
Even if it's just emailing a PDF, people will stew in their decisions when comparing it to the single piece of paper they'll receive.
You don't have to provide it every time, but at least have it as an option. I see it as the easiest way to educate your hesitant customers.
Love the content and can't wait to see what y'all are coming up with. Keep up the great work!
Hey Jorden, welcome to our world.... i'm a heating engineer and we have had this race to the bottom of cheap quoting for boiler installs for years, the industry overall including the manufacturers have tried to get tougher but if some guy under cuts you and chucks a boiler in, then does not register it or answer his phone when it goes tits up who is culpable. Good rant, very familiar.
Heating industry is suffering since Capita took over running Gas safe. Likewise with NICEIC, now its run as a business rather than a consumer protection charity. Standards and professionalism have taken a serious downward turn. Electrical industry suffers more, as their regulations are not Law.
Hi, you stick to your principles. Clearly the best way you are thinking and keeping your integrity sound.
Yes! Thank you!
Unfortunatly there are many "electricians" out there who are willing to put thier name to a report which has limited or forged results. They will get away with it until the installation they said is safe ends up seriously injuring or killing someone and they end up being done for fraud or potentially manslaughter.
All we can do is try to educate the person ordering the work (as your do) to try to inform them of the differences
I had to shop a electrician to a letting agent due to the report he gave to one of their landlords, on certsure he wasn't even registered to carry out an eicr for the prs,
And his report was 95% limited to every check with results not even filled in.
🤦♂️
Thanks Jordan for these video's I'm a relatively new electrician but with Napit and had the blessing to cut my cloth in North London with my brother in law who was a very experienced electrician, he held to the same standards that you do and as I do now. Most of the properties I come across are not new builds so I'm spending a good day with older properties which have alterations, signs of wear and tear etc. I often find that a good reading can be obtained say on an R1R2 test of a ring circuit once you really figure out how the circuit is configured, but this takes time, so how drive by EICR's can be done is beyond me, particularly when the purpose of an EICR is to determine if the installation is safe for continued use. Keep the video's coming they are very helpful.
I charge £130 for a two bed house. Check 20% accessories half a day. I do two a day and happy with my pricing. No need for massive prices
I could not survive with this pricing. Sorry bud
@@cnelson1338 you cant survive on £1300 per week labour ! wow
Working for a company yes but running a business, no. There is a big difference. Surely you see this?
@@cnelson1338 End of the day the customer pays more for overheads for running a big company. Im a one man band and happy to charge the rate i do for my customers.
@@simonbeal2148 but he won’t take that as salary, most will go into running costs and developing a stable business that will still be there in 5 years
Hi Jordan, I was the guy giving you a thumbs up from the end of your drive as I was working next door on Friday 😂 didn’t want to pester you for a ride in the Tesla but I will say here I’ve been a long time watcher, so to pull up there made my day. Enjoy your weekend mate, all the best in growing your business this year 👍💪
If everyone is moaning about these cheap tests, then who is actually doing them, name them.
But, if you want to blame someone, look no further than your governing body, either the NIC or napit, they are seeing the standard of reports when they inspect them and letting them get away with it.
Totally with you on this. I have a friend who is a Landlord and I've quoted her for her EICR's and she's happy with that and I'm doing her flats later this week. However she's let me know that on a landlords forum she's on, landlords are expecting to be quoted no more than £80 REGARDLESS of the size of property !! I've already been approached by one of these "company's" who want me to work full time doing 4 or more EICR's a day. Needless to say I told them where to go.
Yes I'm losing business, but I'm not going to get involved in this war, cut my prices and cut corners. I'm not putting my name to a report that isn't finished, because it's my business on the line, if there is a subsequent fire or injury and my report said it was safe. Not happening. I think the rules need tightening. I couldn't even offer EICR's until I'd taken 2391-52, as Napit wouldn't sign off my reports, nor my insurance company.
Personally I go over and above whats required. Full EICR report, with photographs and an attached document that describes my recommendations - and remember an EICR can ONLY result in recommendations, even C1's - it's up to the Landlord if its acted on, and it's their responsibility if they don't.
I practically stopped doing Eicr's approx 3/4 years ago. If i do one nowadays it's a days pay. All done thoroughly, correct test results recorded & any remedials required. Safety is of utmost importance. It's only fair to the tennant, whilst protecting the Landlord and his property. Everybody wins in this scenario. :-) Otherwise, I say, "GET SOMEONE ELSE"
This is brilliant. I had the same issue recently with a customer. Told me my price sounded steep, explained almost identically to what you’ve said here. Got the job and after being there five hours she said she couldn’t believe people quoted £60 for a ten way board
Ehh 60quid for a board....wow I was qouted 470quid
Ok Jordan. I’m interested in how I should go about when ringing around and ask the right questions etc, what to reveal etc. Maybe do a video on it? 🤷♂️
I’m residential owner, I know my CU needs replacing, it’s an old crappy Wylex one, the lights in bathroom upgrading to IP safety rated and change kitchen lights so I can install HUE lights and maybe a fan in the bathroom and probably a few other small bits.
I’ve lived in my property for 10 years or so and not got round to doing this so I’m thinking also an EICR to be done first so that I can ensure that no other issues arises / crops up and ensures the work is done safely.
This is my conundrum
Should I just ask for an EICR and not mention the other stuff to prevent the cash register and get impartial review / wait for them to actually see what needs doing.
Or be up front and say I need new cu, house checking over with the EICR and other bits doing.
I’ve educated myself by watching your videos and other YT electricians. Eg I’ve learnt that I need to get the main electricity company in to put an isolator so that the old CU is safe, and the earthing needs doing properly.
Plus I have no idea if the new CU will fit in the small cupboard!
I find it frustrating that I want to be up front but I know there are con men out there and I don’t want to get ripped off. Yea I’m going to do the usual ask people I know who they would recommend.
From watching this video I’ve leaned, an good EICR could be a minimum 3-4 hours Labour, photos in report etc.
If I lived in Cambridge I’d give you a ring but unfortunately your other end of the country lol.
Edit
Also I know that I want my CU installed nicely all tailed off, I don’t want it looking like a rats nest, I feel that I should be checking on my electrician as he cracks on with the job as I can’t exactly alter it afterwards haha
Edit 2 - sorry for the long reply I’d love to hear your thoughts on how to tackle it.
Ask what extent of sampling they will be doing? Will they be testing 100% of circuits, how long will it take? Will they need access to all the sockets, light switches etc, what limitations will they put on the report? This should give you an indication of what they are like.
@@artisanelectrics Excellent, thanks for replying, I’ll add that to my list of questions! 👍
Electrician round here known for it, 45 quid eicrs. We call him the letterbox tester as its asif he looks through the letterbox and says 'pass'.
🤣
Some landlords have unwittingly been breaking the law for years. And most estate agents have been offering incorrect information enabling them to do so.
The 'Landlords and Tenants Act 1985' requires that the electrical installation in a rented property is: safe when a tenancy begins and maintained in a safe condition throughout the tenancy.
The only way to do this is to carry out a Electrical periodic inspection's
The term 'Qualified Person' means a person who has been trained to carry out a series of Electrical testing procedures. Who has a firm understanding of Electrical craft principles and a understanding of current electrical wiring regulations. ( An electrician who has completed a number of City and Guilds course etc)
This work is not notifiable to building control so does not require a company who is a member of the competent person's scheme. (NICEIC ,STROMA, NAPIT ETC) So don't be fooled into thinking, that these companies are the only ones able to carry out the electrical testing.
Couldn’t agree more with Jordan. Let’s all help our clients by maintaining our standards and carrying out EICRs out properly. Do the job properly so the client can be confident their rental property is safe for their tenants.
Good rant Jordan👍, I avoid eicr’s like the plague. Dirty run down rental properties where landlords have had builders and odd job men messing with the electrical installation and now are surprised when you give them a report with lots of writing on it. I get a bit of work from a Facebook page where some joker is advertising “from£75”. It’s grim up North I usually charge min of £140 for two up two down terrace.
I avoid them now, cant be arsed with tiptoeing around people and dealing with all of their "life shit". Only do empty properties prior to being rented out or moved into.
That way I can set up my music, laptop, food supplies and relax.
@@Woodkin007 An unoccupied EICR can be a genuine pleasure. Peace and quiet and an easy job to get on with for a few hours. on the flipside I did an occupied one yesterday for HA where the tenant was a hoarder with mental health issues, couldn't get at anything but the client accepted the limitations. I literally ran out of accessible stuff I could test or inspect after an hour which was OK by me as I couldn't wait to get out!
@@Blackf1ngers ha ha. Gawd, I'd never do shit like that. Private landlords only, or people getting a cert for someone's property who's passed on.
Min £120 is cheep for two up two down terrace . I got quoted £213 for 1 bed flat and I was will to pay that as a landlord. I cant sleep at night if it was not check right, My insurance would not pay out otherwise as a landlord that is worthy of a hart attack if insurance dont pay up
Nick Bundy had something like this happen where an agent didn't pay him/the landlord. its a joke that some electricians just con people its what you get though then they are "professionals"
Remember that one, it was an estate agent who asked him on behalf of the landlord, (weird)
Because landlord didn't pay them, then they wouldn't pay him. Legality is questionable as his contract is with the estate agent and the work was carried out as requested.
@@stevelambert6689 yeah mate exactly jusy hopefully some of his subs help him to get this video watched just so he's aware
Had something similar a year ago when I was testing a flat (EICR) for a client when the agent popped in to take pictures puzzled he asked what I was doing?
He was even more shocked when I was PAT and FAT testing too which he never heard about before?🤔
The agents are just as bad in my experience, 2 weeks ago I was changing an extraction fan and a TT driving blue suited fake Rolex wearing idiot was going over the potential sale with my client when he said he knew a bloke who could write out a certificate for him🙄
I'm in Surrey and charge £35.00 per circuit for vacant properties and £40.00 for occupied. Like you, I give my clients an honest and comprehensive report.
Well done and thanks for sharing
I live in Surrey and have a small rental studio flat. Was charged £220 + VAT by a local company whilst the property was vacant. Based on the number of circuits that's about the same as you would charge. He was there for 1h 20m so either he didn't do it thoroughly or some of the circuits took 5 mins - simple spurs to the emersion, shower, storage heater for example. I wanted the certificate from a proper electrical company to cover my backside.
I completely get that you guys have overheads and stuff but in terms of all trades, so not picking on sparks, my long experience is that it's hard to find someone that actually wants to work a full day for a fair price as opposed to half a day for 2 days pay. Customers are much more likely to be the victim of poor tradesmen than the other way round in North East Surrey !!
If only the You Tube sparks like Artisan worked where I live I would employ them every time!!
What was your price if you don’t mind me asking Jordan
@Mark Sesum 1 power ring, 1 cooker radial, 1 heater radial, 1 shower radial, 1 emersion radial 1 lighting radial He did the EICR as he went so within the 1h20m. I had the CU changed 3 years ago and the installation certificate was in the meter cupboard so that might have helped ! Hey, I am not really complaining because I picked a biggish local company with an office and multiple vans, so overheads etc. They also wanted £110 to sort the advisories which were a mixed colour label on the CU and a bit of grommet around the cable entry at the back of the CU - 10 min job - both of which should have been done by the guy that I paid good money to fit the new CU. I guess the point I was trying to make is that my experience with trades is that even though I pay fair (high!) prices I don't get great quality. NOBODY wants to work past 3.00 or finish a job properly. The guy that re-wired my own house never labelled the board and forgot to do the main bonding ! I have now bought a Brother printer and done the CU myself. I have also labelled everything in my house that doesn't move ! lol Brilliant toy to play with!
I agree 100% with what you have said about EICR prices. We should stick to our standards and pricing after all we are doing them a favour with our expert assessments. The more detail that is recorded on these certificates the more the landlords (or anyone else asking for an EICR) are protected which some do not understand or don't want to understand and this all takes time and a conscientious approach. After all we are trained professionals and should value ourselves as such. Do not join the race to the bottom, its not worth it. I know of a couple of electricians in the Midlands who are now serving prison sentences because of taking short cuts in testing and inspection work. The NICEIC even sent letters out to its members as a result of the court case, the media attention and sadly the death that resulted.
Jordan, just watched several of your videos today which i feel have helped me a lot with the EV charging course I'm doing at the moment. This video I have definitely had experience of (and makes me see red), The Drive by EICR. The last customer who i gave a price to told me I was twice as expensive as the first price she had received, and after the first 'sparkie' did the EICR she ended up with a quote for remedial works for over £1,500.00 for a partial rewire, that she didn't need. It turned out the guy was only there for half an hour and for 15 minutes of that he was drinking tea. It takes me 15 minutes to get set up with dust sheets, tools, tester and paperwork. But listening to your excellent rant and the comments of other decent sparkies, well it's good to know there are still proper trades people out there, so yes as was said on a previous comment 'stick to your principals'. And keep making the vids
I'm a landlord and had one done in the summer. Agent offered deal about £120, same for every property, although they obvs differ in scope. Mine's a small 1 bed flat with 5 circuits. I read all the relevant regs and EICR coding, so could monitor what they did. It was obvious from the report that they wanted work and coded it accordingly. They put the recommendations in the wrong place instead if just reporting. One circuit they claimed was not possible to identify. I wanted an upgrade and an honest report of the condition, but they just wanted to replace MCBs with RCBOs in old plastic enclosure! When I wrote back querying each individual point, referring to the regs by number, the agent never got a reply. I had to find my own person, from hundreds of miles away, and luckily he was honest, thorough and decent. Charged about the same as the drive-by guys quoted, but did a full CU and earthing upgrade. It's just the same as the MoT scams - you believe and trust what they say and do and it's hard to know what's true. I take my cars to the council depot for MoTs as they don't do any work on private vehicles.
What all companies need is some Tegretry wich is rare this days
Tegrety Farms!
@@MatthewHawkyard tell me isnt Jordan sounding a bit like randy 😂😂when he's talking about tegredity , couldn't stop laughing lol
@@cocoino2307 does that make Cory towlie?
@@MatthewHawkyard pay attention to him , he sometimes looks stoned 😅 and is always chilled , so you are saying he ain't? Let's just keep Jordan out of China to avoid any chaos if u know what I mean
Great video. I'm a landlord and agent and I find it frustrating when landlords want EICRs done cheap. It takes time and unless they ramp down the time taken it can't be done while having a test result that reflects the reality of the installation tested.
Hi Jordan. I made the following comment to one of Mark Allison's vids, but I think it's worth saying it here too... My Mrs came home from her sister's today, making a point that a friend of hers in a rented property had their electrics checked with no messing about. Apparently the guy was in and out in about 10 mins... all done! She told me this as if it's a good thing, hinting towards my far slower (and more comprehensive) approach. So I opened up GN3 and asked her what massive chunk of work the guy doing the testing must have skipped. The conversation is ongoing and my blood boileth over!
Wow that’s crazy
@@artisanelectrics Apparently she has been told that she "needs" a new CU. My guess is that a plastic one was originally installed, and there is nothing actually wrong with it. I need to ask a few questions!
We run a computer/electronic shop, specialising on components level. Sadly we too suffer similar issues. A big thumb up for maintaining your values, just like we do here at iTC. 😊👍👍👍
I fully agree. Ive been testing ONLY for over 7 years. Im fast and efficient but to do 4 or more in a day is ridiculous. The paperwork alone takes its time. Too many rogue sparkies and estate agents looking for cheap. Move with the times guys. Inflation rises yet dodgy sparkies keep our rates low. Enoughs enough
Work that "needs doing"...............yeah right, please explain why a CU installed under 17th edition regs needs replacing with an 18th edition CU, apart from the £500 odd quid the job costs???
A 17th edition ccu would not need updating to 18th. If the ccu is double insulated, all that would be required is to note that down as a departure and recommend it be enclosed within a fire resistant enclosure
If the CU is not damaged (by heat say) then there is no need to replace it.
I completely agree with everything you have said in your video, too many people these days cut corners for the sake of making a few quid.
It can be potentially dangerous when unsafe wiring is left undetected because people won't pay for things to be done properly.
I always watch you videos and think you're doing a great job, keep up the great work and keep teaching people how it should be done....
I’m in a rental, and whilst here the landlady has scrimped on electrical work, adding an additional board (for the new circuits) rather than replacing the old wired fuses! So I have both. No EICR here yet. I’ll be watching the electrician if and when we get one.
Wired fuses are not automatically an EICR 'fail'. There may be lots of other issues if she has scrimped on works, but wired fuses themselves are compliant with the regs.
Hi Jordan. I watched your video rant on the price of EICR’s. As a fully qualified and NICEIC registered electrician myself, I give the customer the analogy of an EICR being much like having an MOT on their car. If the garage just took a look at the car, had a quick walk around and said, yep, everything is absolutely fine, then would you trust their (a) judgement and (b) professionalism? I know I wouldn’t. Another guide I give them, is that “time wise” it should take approx 45 minutes per DB to do the basic tests, PFC, Ze, check main bonds and start the paperwork, PLUS, approx 20 minutes per circuit. In other words, an EICR of a 10-way DB should take around 4 hours. The flip side of so called “dodgy” electricians carrying out super quick EICR’s, is that I am receiving a good number of their EICR’s for a second opinion and more often than not, the remedial works too. Keep up the good work! ATB. Paul
Report your concerns to the IET and get their resources behind this. We have electrical safety standards for a reason, not for profiteering.
On a side note, I can understand why an ageing sparky or someone with injuries might choose to move on to only doing the EICR and no longer be "on the tools", but someone who qualifies only to do EICR for easy money does call into question the authorisation and oversight process.
Good point well made.
Thanks
Good luck with that
Not necessarily half a day or all day. I’ve seen blokes flying around work and still do work to a high standard. Depends who your spark is
I'ts still 20% of accessories opened and inspected as a minimum and if there are no nasty surprises then fine but they are the minority and for the purposes of pricing that extra time has to be reflected in the cost, surely Luke?
Maybe on an unoccupied property
I think for a premium standard service, checking 10% of accessories is below acceptable standard. That would only be 5 items in my house with 50 accessories. I think for a top end, premium EICR a higher percentage should be checked.
Totally agree, it's basic standard
Yeah i do 30% minimum if as teat is going fast but finding loads of stuff i look further. Usually find more stuff
How much is a Artisan EICR, obviously you’d have to hire the tester and temp lights plus vat obviously
About £96 per hour 😬
I totally get it. I sympathise. It's a (an understandable) problem. I respect your stand which will help maintain your reputation (in the long run). It can only be a good thing to educate the service user/s.
Stay safe.
Paul
Newmarket, Suffolk.
In Germany, the costs are around 120 - 250€, depending on the size of the flat / house and the electrical installation.
We have similar problems with this here. Unfortunately, only a few companies do a really thorough EICR (we call it an E-check). Many companies give their employees just 1 - 1.5 hours for it, which is definitely too little for a thorough check.
As a landlord I got my Eicr done 12 months ago... got quoted 5k based on a 20min visit saying I needed rewiring whole house!
The next electrician charged £700 including work 1 day,( large property)
Crazy difference.
Great , don’t ever change what you do. My company wants me to work quicker but I take pride in what I do and the job is properly done and will never catch fire. Some EICR are a waste of time in some properties as landlords never have enough money to pay for works.
Well,I take your point .However you do charge almost three times as much an hour as I do for the same job in Aberdeen.
Looks like your the one missing out
I charge £150 for an honest EICR in West London and does minor repairs if needed for free it takes like 3-4 hours for all process.
£150 for 3 -4 hours work by a qualified electrician is good value.
Cool. But seriously you'd make the same money driving a taxi.
But can you sustain and build your business long term for such a low income?
I'm soo glad you said this, I worked for one of these companies and it didn't last long, I ended up having a panic attack! Now I spend at least half a day on one and actually enjoy it...kind of..
Might be interesting for viewers to note that an EICR is really an MOT for your electrical installation and all the same pitfalls that have applied to MOTs over the years now apply to EICRs...time, cost, quality, tester's experience etc...perhaps the lead industry body (or the govt!) will introduce 'spies' in the camp as they did for MOTs. You may never know who the 'customer' actually is!
Totally agree that the race to the bottom is a problem. Opting out is the right thing to do.
Although, I wonder if there is a way to offer a discount on remedial work following an EICR? Might be a sweetener for customers who accept a drive by EICR just to be compliant, but not want to risk a cowboy job when it comes to remedial work?
I'm not an electrician, but i'd imagine doing remedial work at a property where one of your guys did the EICR saves a bit of time because you go there knowing exactly what to expect.
I was having this very conversation with a lad that I went to college with. he told me that the company he works for are spending an hour per EICR 😡😡 I was fuming and his justification was on the remedial work aspect as you said, but I work with another electrician who has the same stance as me and want to provide an accurate truthful report and as you have said this takes time and time has to be reasonably priced which is proving more and more difficult
Is it safe to say that as an Electrician your reasonable price should be no more than £20per hour? Or may be at the very very maximum of £27 per hour? (Coz the national wage is just under £9 per hour, and remember people are working very hard to earn this £9)
We have the same problem with pre-purchase building surveys. We have 35+ years experience so we charge more than a building surveyor who just qualified. Most clients are only interested in price not quality.
I absolutely agree with you because recently I was called to re-do an EICR that someone did for a 4-bed house, believe it or not for 20mins. How on earth will anyone complete an EICR for 20min? He belongs to NICEIC, what am I suppose to do, report him because he obviously did not carry out test because the report he produced was full of errors.
I have a small number of landlords I work with who are willing to pay what's needed to get the jobs done. The majority of others that call me up get given the price and I never hear from them again. Like you said, there are too many offering to do them cheap and that's all most landlords seem to be interested in.
My dad is a private landlord. He had a firm do a couple of EICRs. They were cheap, but not ridiculously so. I'm no electrician by I was a part P competent person for a year, so know a bit more than average.
They came back with over a grand of remedial work, but wouldn't quote specific regulations from BS7671. Had things like "Pendant style light fittings in kitchen". Asked the tenants how long they had the power off for testing. Zero minutes! I wonder how they did the insulation testing?
Got a second firm to redo the EICRs and even paying twice, it ended up costing less than if we'd done everything the first firm claimed was required.
Wow that’s mad thanks for sharing
I'm with you Jordan. As soon as they say they have had someone offer to do it for x amount of £'s I Inform them that they are very unlikely to be doing a proper job, wish them good luck and let them crack on. I've told every letting agency that has contacted me so far to jog on to the next mug as they want to dictate a low price.
Jordan remain honest and keep your dignity. If your name go on a dishonest EICR your the man in the dock if it goes wrong. Personally I would walk away from an ICR that I couldn't do properly and be 100% honest with . I have never done any work that doesn't need doing . I've lost count of amount of work I've lost and then had to go and put right because the client took the cheapest option , quality over quantity . These cheap ICR are done at the CU . I had clients tell when I've done ICRs the last person never did a 5th of the work you have done , I've simply replied who do you trust now ?
In the dock, there's the problem, when was the last time you heard of a bogus spark being hauled over the coals for shoddy, illegal work ? Doesn't happen mate, all these " sparks " running around in there white vans, all with bent cards. Industry is full of them . Bring back 5 year City and Guild apprenticeships, in England , spend £50 in tescos and you get a card.
Hi Jordan, had 26 jobs taken out of my hands on a government job and turned out all the TNCS supplies turned into TT supplies when the new guy. looked at the first two and copied and pasted the results to them all ...your Dublin friend....nevin
With the odd person saying half a day is too long. Half a working day is 4 hours, not including travel time. It also depends on the size of the property. I charge £140 for a typical 2/3 bed house. Anything bigger I’d split down to price per DB if applicable and per circuit. You cant just walk in and visual everything and list everything as a limitation, that’s just bad practice.
Totally agree with you, we have had some interesting chat with people on this topic, when you give them the price it’s always “I can get it for half that”!! But, there is another point to this, we were given another EICR to look at by a customer, seemed a bit vague, so looked into who did it. It was basically a general builder, registered under a Part P scheme. So, what’s their ‘qualification’ to under take an EICR? For Part P all you need is Initial Verification. To me, that’s not really enough to be inspecting someone else’s work. From my experience there are a few out there who are not adequately experienced / qualified to do these inspections.
Most definitely being affected, we are losing a lot of EICRs because of it. Recently a local customer sent me an EICR carried out by an electrician which had no number of points, no R1/R2s and a Ze which exceeded the maximum for a TNCS system. Thankfully he was smart enough to have withheld the payment as he smelt a rat with the guy who did the test. Although more expensive than the previous guy, the landlord accepted our cost. When we got to site and were still there over 2 hours later, the tenant complained saying the previous guy was there for less than half an hour! (there were 9 circuits in this installation) We always make clear to people that they do not have to use our company for the remedial work once we have issued the report. Last year, I quit working for a property management company after we lost out on several EICRs, guys doing 1 bed flats for £60.00+vat each. Also the same electrician told the management company that ALL plastic CCUs have to be replaced and were giving them code 2s every time
I've stopped doing them now, had a landlord call be saying he had a quote for £65 and could I do it cheaper.
Still ringing round at £65 🤦♂️🤣
Ultimately if the inspection is being done for the good reasons (safety, improvement, genuine interest) then cost can't be the main differentiating factor.
By the way, do you cover Oxfordshire?
Hi Jordan, What is wrong with £20 per circuit and £30 for the board ? Tony
Would of said that’s to low a price
Depends on the size of the property
But as a guide I change 180-300 ish
£65.00 per C.U plus £25. Per circuit
Stay calm and do your best ! Thank you for the integrity to do the proper service to the customer ! You can sleep better at night knowing you did it right !!!!
Great rant Jordan.
We need an industry standard set out by our registered bodies of what a standardised EICR MUST include...
eg full board and bonding test, testing of every circuit and to what extent is acceptable, a minimum acceptable sampling percentage of fittings etc etc
Then it's more of a level playing field. Customers don't understand the difference of a pointless 'drive by' EICR verses a professional methodical EICR, they only understand the price difference!
Having watched many consumer type programmes on TV over the years (Watchdog etc) they often had really bad practicing "builders", plumbers, electricians etc. However, no matter how bad they were, they still carried on even when confronted by the TV personnel. My question is - Why do the various trades in the building industry, mechanics, and other manual jobs not lobby the government to make it illegal to operate without a licence which can be easily removed if they are shown to be cowboys who not only rip off people but often put them in danger. The worse that these people can expect is that the boss is sometimes listed as not able to be a director of a firm but they do so and often shut down the firm in question and then instantly start up exactly the same thing under another name. The licence system could operate in a similar way that you cannot drive without a licence but would also require a sufficiently big enough punishment (such as imprisonment, loss of their own property etc) to act as as a real disincentive to operate without the requisite licence.
This may seem like another layer of bureaucracy that may not be welcome but if it means that you get rid of the cowboys from your industry and give people more confidence when employing a tradesman (or woman) for any job that needs doing in a house, car, garden etc there surely could be no argument against it. There should be a simple means of reporting questionable practices and potentially removing people from being able to operate in the fashion that they are currently doing. If there are insufficient consequences for this behaviour and while good tradespeople, their trade organisations and the government cannot or will not be bothered to implement the kind of thing I suggest then this will carry on regardless with people not trusting tradespeople, being stressed about finding someone trustworthy and relable and having the opinion that no-one can be trusted. Is that what decent tradespeople actually want or are happy to accept ?
It's a sad state of affairs when it could so easily be resolved.
Who polices the licences though? Long gone are the days when a man from the Ministry could turn up mid job and inspect the work you're doing...(if that ever happened in electrics, it certainly doesn't happen on civil works anymore).
I doubt a building inspector does spot checks on building work these days either.
I keep getting asked to do EICR's and my method of getting them is to not want to do them in the first place. It's surprising how many people are searching for sparks that don't like doing EICR's to actually do their EICR's. Though there are equal amounts of people I've refused to work for because they want a £50 EICR or no EICR at all and just work done and not signed off.
The last EICR I got asked to do has cost the landlord a 70% rewire, new consumer unit and while that has been going on around 40k of work done to the property due to the last tenant turning it into a grow and DIY'ing electrics/ kitchen. Safice to say the EICR was free and some how I ended up doing the work even though I didn't really want the job.
Sounds like the same as garages who offer MOTs at a loss, but inevitably will find things "wrong" with the car and overcharge on unnecessary repairs.
That EICR "remedial work" reminded me of MOT work by garages to get your car through.
Most of the EICR’s I see online take forever with shaking of heads, tut-tutting and “what’s going on here?” Then there’s connect Line this to N that, L that to N this and divide by 4. Measure CPC R, divide by 1.67etc. The car industry came up with an automated system years ago called OBD which means auto-electricians doesn’t need to check every individual circuit with a multimeter. Why haven’t we a similar system for home electrics yet? Why isn’t there a tester which can be plugged into several sockets at once to test the ring or lighting circuits autonomously? Finally, LED’s have drastically reduced the current needed in lighting so why are we still using 230v, with CPC!, for minimal loads with every lamp stepping down the lethal voltage to LED compatible voltage? We don’t need ring circuits any more. The only circuit which really needs 230v is the kitchen, probably a radial. Electrics should be the most modern of home industries. It’s stuck in the ‘50s. There I’ve said it!
It would be an interesting video to visit a property after a "cheap" EICR, review their findings and list of remedial work, and demonstrate what they have missed by cutting corners.
Haha that would be good
I’d like to book one for my own property, and sit back and see what gets tested.
Maybe add a few faults to see if they get picked up..
🥸
Dave Savery did just that in one of his videos.
we had a similar set up, customer rang up wanting a EICR on a 4 bed. gave him a estimate price over the phone, they are very hard to price as you cant see the installation. always ask the question are there any off peak boards ? any external power/ submains going out to sheds or garages. anyway we gave him a price of £200 was probably cheap but it was of the top of my head, but he turnt round and said i am the most expensive quote he had received he was quite rude and blunt over the phone about it all. straight away i said thank you sir and put the phone down not worth the hassle. occupied (rental) houses are the worst, you tell the tenants i will be here for around 3 - 4 hours depending on the size of the installation, and i explain that power will be going on and of for testing purposes etc. they get so high rated about it all and complain, even worse now that everyone is working from home. people just expect we are going to be there for 30 mins and thats it.
Love your honesty, we got screwed when we moved to our house, £300 for an "EICR" and a couple of other jobs, Paperwork never arrived and now i've started to look deeperI i now realise he didn't test anything! OH well i'm older and wiser now.............Do you cover surrey by any chance?
Well said Jordan. No excuses, either carry out the work correctly or find another trade.
I had the same this week and when gave my price all they said was that’s more than a gas safety check
People don't get that a Gas Safety is to check one item ie the boiler, we are checking all the electrics throughout the whole house! Gas safety prob 1 hour work vs EICR 4-8 hours depending on size of house.
@@artisanelectrics exactly I’m going to do a video on this subject next week myself
But the EICR is 5 years whereas gas is every year
I aways compare it to an MOT on your car.... I say to the client, would you take your car to a garage that offered you an Mot for a tenner.... They seem to understand much better this way.... It works for me...
That’s great thanks I’m gonna use that
you are the best, yes this what l explain to all the people that ask me for EICR's, and they complain about the prices. We pay insurances, tools, certificates etc.plus we need to survive, this trade is going down unfortunately :(
We are having exactly the same issue with people doing EICRs for less than £100. I've taken the same decision as you, we won't lower our prices in a race to the bottom either. I try to do an unbiased and thorough job which takes 3 to 4 hours. I even had a landlady telling me last week that it should only take 2 hours maximum! One problem is that anyone who calls themself competent can carry out EICRs, they don't even have to be a member of a competent person's scheme or insured. Several people around here are doing it and undercutting everyone. I also think that many landlords don't help the situation, pushing for a low price when they only want a piece of paper.
That is the problem, once the landlord has that piece of paper his liability if shit hits the fan is gone
They do have to be insured, legally anyway .
@@lukeblake8849 Yes, legally but I think many are not
@@lukeblake8849 Only for employee liability not public liability , given many of these inspectors operate in the gig economy chances are no insurance or inadequate insurance, plus of course 3 years own the line trying to track them down will be near impossible