Keith, I want to thank you for this video. I've been shooting long range rifles for 15+ years including 2000 plus yard ELR. I've developed loads for all of my stuff and helped many other people along the way. I have NEVER heard this explanation of scope mechanics. Mind blown. This certainly explains some issues I've encountered over the years with scope adjustments not seeming to respond correctly, especially when trying to zero. Thanks for taking the time to make this video and I appreciate the knowledge you bring!
@@perchowski3021 I have done some machining. I was also a heavy truck tech and welder for 17 years. I understand backlash well. I just never thought about it from a scope turret perspective. Understanding how the turrets work made all the difference
This is the same approach used to adjust an artillery director (think surveyor transit) and guarantee repeatable results. We were taught to "swing right and traverse left" so the gear would always be engaged at the end of adjustment. Once again you are providing critical information instead of magic. Thanks a bunch.
I have been shooting VBR at 1k for 13 years and this is the second time I have heard this method of dialing past and then back. Unfortunately I had forgotten the method and attributed it to a certain manufacturer of scopes. Thank you for your advice again, I again learned something about my sport!
......been doing that for 40 years, EXCEPT, I didn't take into consideration the VERY valid point you made about the importance of the directions with spring-tension on the erector tube. Thanks fer sharing !!
It’s like spring bind in a cars suspension You have to turn the wheel all the way to the left to get that spring binding noise and then roll partially back to the right to take the tension off of the spring because what’s happening is it’s sticking. Makes a lot of sense thank you 😊
I dont comment much on channels but with all the great content being shared lately about reloading on RUclips this has to be the most informative bit of information I've learnt outside of reloading. Its makes perfect sense and I now know why I was chasing my shots when adjusting my scopes. Cant Thank you enough Keith.
Just found your channel. I'm a wannabe; I've done some machining so all this makes perfect sense to me. Thanks very much for your effort. I'm going to share this around; I agree with others-- everyone who uses a scope needs to see this. Two thumbs way up!
Well, I thought J knew everything. I used this technique , dialing past then going back. It was our first match. My wife's gun, was low, way low. We dialed passed 2 mins, then back down to the desired come up. Was on the 9 ring the very next relay. Thanks Keith
Excellent advice! I've always suspected these conditions exist, but your explanation and, more importantly, your tips on how to deal with it, are the best I've ever seen. Thanks.
I shouldn’t even give you a thumbs up for giving away my best kept secret. So much for just grinning when my adjustments work and the competitor on the next bench is cussing, lol. Yea, you get a thumbs up! Great video. I truly appreciate the depth of thought and insight you are willing to make contributing to our shooting disciplines. You have added much depth and understanding to my game.
Ok, im relatively new to this channel and this is something I’ve never thought about. I don’t have the time at the moment, but I will definitely be watching again to make sure I picked up everything. This is great 🙌 party on
Agreed on single click adjustments. I've not found a scope yet that "adjusts" impacts by one or two clicks, _especially_ when changing direction. In other words, making *another click in the same direction as last time* _probably_ adds one click. But, making one click in the *opposite direction* just removes tension from the internals. That's also why zero "stops" (or marks) are important. Down to zero, then up to your come-ups in the DOPE book *each time.* And frankly, for the _vast_ majority of shooters, 1/4-1/2 MOA is *well* within the variation of one round to the next.
You have shed a whole new light on scope adjustments for me. A problem i have fought with in the past. I was one that carried a small ball bein hammer with me for tapping on the side of the scope. It works but was a crude way to do it. I see the light now. Thanks for the very informative video.
Wooow man, what an eye opener, never thought about this, this video may explain some troubles I have been experiencing, awesome scope! but expensive😔! I use Vortex.
Thanks Keith. I've had issues with this and didn't know how to get by it... But now that you've explained it, it makes complete and total sense. Now I just have to remember to apply what I've learned.
Thank you. You just made me aware of why I sometimes have trouble with fine adjustment of my scope and how to fix it. As soon as you described how the reticle is adjusted, I knew what you were going to say. A simple solution based on knowledge and understanding.
Thank you for this video. I was recently zeroing my rifle and I felt as though I was chasing shots all over the paper. I never thought of doing this. Now I'm going to head out and do it again. Properly this time.
So simultaneous adjustment of both turrets must provide least friction when dialing up or right. In that way you reduce friction in both X and Y axis of the suspended tube inside :-)
Great video. Spot on. I always tap the scope lightly but deliberately when I do any cluck adjustment on my scope. I primarily hunt and use the reticle marks and not in habit of wrenching on dials.
Great explanation Keith. I have been using the over adjustment to remove backlash for a while. But still find myself slipping back into old habits sometimes of knocking on the top of the scope. Great reminder here. Thanks for sharing.
There was a channel Max Ordnance Academy that did some awesome testing of scopes. Their light transmission, their click fidelity and so on. Sad they only made a couple videos.
I'm going to try this when zeroing my laser/iron sights for indoor bowling pin shoots-I'd been going 1 click at a time and not seeing any change in impacts and then suddenly way over corrected! If this works the savings in ammo cost/time well worth a whole year of Patreon!
Keith, thank you. I recently read somewhere that there is a proper way to set the parallax also. The author claimed to always start at the infinity setting and dial back the side focus knob until the parallax is set properly. He went as far to say that if you passed up the point of being parallax free, you needed to go back to infinity again to reset the parallax. I can't recall for certain, but I believe the term he used was also back lash. I have always set my parallax starting at the low setting working up. Is there a right way and a wrong way to set parallax? Thank you.
An extreme case from a reputable US brand. Could dial several minutes windage with no tracking response. Click the elevation a few clicks and the windage poi ‘snaps’ to where the setting should be. Proves the friction lockup you’re talking about.
That whole thing about dialing up one click, seeing no change in POI, so going ahead and dialing up another click.... yeah, (activate sarcasm), I've never done that before.
Keith, I want to thank you for this video. I've been shooting long range rifles for 15+ years including 2000 plus yard ELR. I've developed loads for all of my stuff and helped many other people along the way. I have NEVER heard this explanation of scope mechanics. Mind blown. This certainly explains some issues I've encountered over the years with scope adjustments not seeming to respond correctly, especially when trying to zero. Thanks for taking the time to make this video and I appreciate the knowledge you bring!
Start machining, you'll learn to make stuff with metal and have to figure out exact backlash your machine has to be extremely precise.
@@perchowski3021 I have done some machining. I was also a heavy truck tech and welder for 17 years. I understand backlash well. I just never thought about it from a scope turret perspective. Understanding how the turrets work made all the difference
This is the same approach used to adjust an artillery director (think surveyor transit) and guarantee repeatable results. We were taught to "swing right and traverse left" so the gear would always be engaged at the end of adjustment.
Once again you are providing critical information instead of magic. Thanks a bunch.
Guitarist do the same thing when tuning - tune up to a note not down to a note so the gears can hold tension. Brilliant!
I have been shooting VBR at 1k for 13 years and this is the second time I have heard this method of dialing past and then back. Unfortunately I had forgotten the method and attributed it to a certain manufacturer of scopes. Thank you for your advice again, I again learned something about my sport!
I'm an optical engineer. Lens surfaces have wedge and tilt. If something is rotating or moving, even linearly, expect things to change a bit.
......been doing that for 40 years, EXCEPT, I didn't take into consideration the VERY valid point you made about the importance of the directions with spring-tension on the erector tube. Thanks fer sharing !!
This makes perfect sense and is a better practice than thumping the turrets after adjustments. Thanks!
Probably the most useful tip on how scopes work and why my initial shots usually fall low. A big thank you from a Polish shooter!
It’s like spring bind in a cars suspension You have to turn the wheel all the way to the left to get that spring binding noise and then roll partially back to the right to take the tension off of the spring because what’s happening is it’s sticking. Makes a lot of sense thank you 😊
I dont comment much on channels but with all the great content being shared lately about reloading on RUclips this has to be the most informative bit of information I've learnt outside of reloading. Its makes perfect sense and I now know why I was chasing my shots when adjusting my scopes. Cant Thank you enough Keith.
Just found your channel. I'm a wannabe; I've done some machining so all this makes perfect sense to me. Thanks very much for your effort. I'm going to share this around; I agree with others-- everyone who uses a scope needs to see this. Two thumbs way up!
The over tighten and back off approach applies to tuning guitars too.
Why everyone should watch this channel who drives a rifle. Never ever heard this before. Outstanding video that now explains some things.
Thanks for a great tip adjusting elevation and windage.
How is it Keith has only 13.6k viewers with all the knowledge he gives?
I do this...did it in the military...still great info...well said sir.
One of the best Lessons I have learned yet. Thanks Keith.
Great Keith. I learned a lot as have encountered this situation many a time.
Thanks 4 teaching me how they work so I can understand. And like Paul Harvey said "now you know the rest of the story"....
This video learned me in 9 minutes what I experienced for a long time but could never understand whu this happened. Thank you!!!!
Very good info . Like making up for the lash in a worn lathe to get precision.
Very precise explanation! I've been shooting for a long time and as embarrassing as it is,i never considered backlash in the system 🤷🏼♂️
Well, I thought J knew everything. I used this technique , dialing past then going back. It was our first match. My wife's gun, was low, way low. We dialed passed 2 mins, then back down to the desired come up. Was on the 9 ring the very next relay. Thanks Keith
This makes so much sense! I have definitely shot over making silly small adjustments.
Excellent advice! I've always suspected these conditions exist, but your explanation and, more importantly, your tips on how to deal with it, are the best I've ever seen. Thanks.
I shouldn’t even give you a thumbs up for giving away my best kept secret. So much for just grinning when my adjustments work and the competitor on the next bench is cussing, lol. Yea, you get a thumbs up! Great video. I truly appreciate the depth of thought and insight you are willing to make contributing to our shooting disciplines. You have added much depth and understanding to my game.
This is pure GOLD! Thank you Sr.
I can't believe I never understood while dialing up gave me issues! Seriously this is the biggest ahaa moment I've had in a good while! Thanks Keith!
Thanks, Keith. This is s a basic in physics that I have overlooked for 45 plus years of shooting. Very well done!
Thank God for people like you, you provide what is lacking in people like me. Great info.
I never thought about what you described in this video and it makes perfect sense. I will now make my adjustments differently. Thanks
This is one of those things that makes you say after watching: Why has that never occurred to me?
Thanks for pointing it out.
Ok, im relatively new to this channel and this is something I’ve never thought about. I don’t have the time at the moment, but I will definitely be watching again to make sure I picked up everything. This is great 🙌 party on
I have never heard this advice from anyone, but you. It makes sense and I'm going to give it a try.
Agreed on single click adjustments. I've not found a scope yet that "adjusts" impacts by one or two clicks, _especially_ when changing direction. In other words, making *another click in the same direction as last time* _probably_ adds one click. But, making one click in the *opposite direction* just removes tension from the internals.
That's also why zero "stops" (or marks) are important. Down to zero, then up to your come-ups in the DOPE book *each time.*
And frankly, for the _vast_ majority of shooters, 1/4-1/2 MOA is *well* within the variation of one round to the next.
You have shed a whole new light on scope adjustments for me. A problem i have fought with in the past. I was one that carried a small ball bein hammer with me for tapping on the side of the scope. It works but was a crude way to do it. I see the light now. Thanks for the very informative video.
Thanks for continuing to make these videos
Wooow man, what an eye opener, never thought about this, this video may explain some troubles I have been experiencing, awesome scope! but expensive😔! I use Vortex.
Amazing and logical to boot. Thanks yet again!
Excellent information
Reminds me of how I was taught to adjust automotive headlights. Always make last adjustment tightening the screw.
Very smart, never thought of that. Thank you
Excellent video Keith! I don't know why I had never considered this before, but it will come in handy in the future.
Thanks Keith. I've had issues with this and didn't know how to get by it... But now that you've explained it, it makes complete and total sense. Now I just have to remember to apply what I've learned.
Thank you. You just made me aware of why I sometimes have trouble with fine adjustment of my scope and how to fix it. As soon as you described how the reticle is adjusted, I knew what you were going to say. A simple solution based on knowledge and understanding.
Awesome informative video!!! I am very impressed!! 👍
Great video keith!
Thank you Keith! I've noticed this for years, but I've never understood why! This is the best thing I've learned all week. Maybe more.
Makes so much sense.
How did I not think of this. Thanks!
Thank you for this video. I was recently zeroing my rifle and I felt as though I was chasing shots all over the paper. I never thought of doing this. Now I'm going to head out and do it again. Properly this time.
Interesting video! Thank you for posting this.
So simultaneous adjustment of both turrets must provide least friction when dialing up or right. In that way you reduce friction in both X and Y axis of the suspended tube inside :-)
Great video. Spot on. I always tap the scope lightly but deliberately when I do any cluck adjustment on my scope. I primarily hunt and use the reticle marks and not in habit of wrenching on dials.
Great video Keith.... Now I understand why I got frustrated on setting mine with 1 click adjustments.
Thanks Keith! Your video just turned the light on for me.
Wow this is great material
Thanks Keith !!!!
Such a simple and important technique.
Thank you for that.
Thanks Keith
Great advice mate makes perfect sense I will use this technique in future .
Great explanation Keith. I have been using the over adjustment to remove backlash for a while. But still find myself slipping back into old habits sometimes of knocking on the top of the scope. Great reminder here. Thanks for sharing.
Pure gold. Thanks!
Keith, thanks this really makes sense, I'm headed out today to give it a try ....................................... outstanding information !!
I know I've adjusted in that manner before, but, never really made it a discipline I follow, you just pointed out a good reason to make it a habit.
There was a channel Max Ordnance Academy that did some awesome testing of scopes. Their light transmission, their click fidelity and so on. Sad they only made a couple videos.
Makes good sense
honestly its something so basic(not obvious though), but have never seen anyone talk about it and you gave a great explanation!
Never woulda thought. I’ll def. try it
That makes alot of sense and explains a few things for me.
I'm going to try this when zeroing my laser/iron sights for indoor bowling pin shoots-I'd been going 1 click at a time and not seeing any change in impacts and then suddenly way over corrected! If this works the savings in ammo cost/time well worth a whole year of Patreon!
Keith, Thanks for the great instruction. Are all scopes loaded the same way with the springs, down and left tightening against the spring? Thanks
Thanks!
Thank you!
Great video Keith. Thanks.
Excellent ,,,, Thank YOU
Thanks Keith. I didn’t see you at Nationals.
Brilliant explanation. Thankyou
As my Cousins still in England say, "Brilliant!!"
Great info Keith!
Good info
Good Job
King advice.
I just hunted one hour to rewatch this video😂
Awesome information
Thank You very much!
I love the looks of that one piece mount; anyone know off-hand who makes it ?
I've been trying to apply some of these concepts to high power. I'll see if it helps with slow fire.
Really enjoy your videos. Is that particular scope a 15 to 55? Competition? If so, what is your preferred reticle?
Yes, NPR-2DD
Good info.
Very interesting stuff!
Good information
I do this , kind of instinctively I guess. It just seems right to me...plus ive notice one click not doing a darn thing
Keith, thank you. I recently read somewhere that there is a proper way to set the parallax also. The author claimed to always start at the infinity setting and dial back the side focus knob until the parallax is set properly. He went as far to say that if you passed up the point of being parallax free, you needed to go back to infinity again to reset the parallax. I can't recall for certain, but I believe the term he used was also back lash. I have always set my parallax starting at the low setting working up. Is there a right way and a wrong way to set parallax? Thank you.
I don't know. I've never considered which direction to come from, just to do it consistently.
Good intel
An extreme case from a reputable US brand. Could dial several minutes windage with no tracking response. Click the elevation a few clicks and the windage poi ‘snaps’ to where the setting should be. Proves the friction lockup you’re talking about.
Dumb question. You said 'spring'. A single erector spring to move the erector on two different axis? Why not two springs, one below and one beside?
In summary, I can't imagine anyone at the range wants to talk to you 🤣
That whole thing about dialing up one click, seeing no change in POI, so going ahead and dialing up another click.... yeah, (activate sarcasm), I've never done that before.
If a nightforce isn't moving in one click it needs to be sent back
This isn't about any one manufacturer. I do exactly the same thing with all scopes. They all do exactly the same thing.
Backlash you say
OK commented early
Thanks!
Thank you!