Professor , I'm watching this series for the sixth time in the last 7 years . Along with the '63 posi series . I've probably said this before , but , you are THE master . Good health , good times to you and yours , Neil 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
So subscribe, watch, like, so that this channel and John Kelly, the guy in this channel, get more money and can do more transmissions and clutches, and more videos. This channel I'd give an A+ almost 100%, it severally increases my IQ, is mostly easy to memorize the transmissions and clutches, visually and can explain basic functions and common features, and is gonna help me when I design my first car.
Great info especially in realizing that today's technology is built on the hard work and innovation of those that came before. Thanks for providing this forum.
I believe that use in Buicks was either very late or non-existent, as Buick had their own AT called the Dynaflow , starting I believe in the later 40's, which was much less efficient that the Hydra-matic. I am enjoying your video-very well done. BILL
Nice work John! When I teach the Automatics 1 course at Skyline College I always show the students this unit. This is where it all started..Keep up the good work.
The 4 speed AST transmission with the clutch was installed in a handful of 1938 Buicks. My grandfather who regularly would buy clear title salvage cars and repair and resell them ran across one of these just after the War but not really knowing what it was didn't buy it.
Fun fact, Buick was rather salty about basically being forced by GM management to build these units and install them in their vehicles, so when the AST failed, they had no interest in licensing the Hydramatic, and out of spite developed their own unit. The Dynaflow, which due to WW2, wasn’t finalized and introduced until the 1948 model year.
From a historic standpoint, this series is priceless! Automotive technology fascinates many of us, and these videos hit the nail on the head! I'll watch the whole series with great interest. My 1957 Pontiac has a Hydra-Matic, so it will be interesting to learn what goes on inside that massive chunk of cast iron. Many thanks!
History is awesome to show the infancy of the development of automatic transmissions and explain their patents. Its like I am back in college and not falling asleep. Kudos John
Thank you! It's awesome to have so good teaching for free! This is a very high quality material that took you so many time and effort to produce and you are gracefully sharing it with us. Greetings from Brazil!
Great research and very well told. Thinking about all the thought that went into the improvements over the years reminds me about my personal philosophy as a mechanical engineer. As an older guy now, I have owned all kinds of vehicles from very simple to very complex with all the bells and whistles: from 4 speed manual to a 6 speed DSG transmission. When I have the fancy stuff, I use it and enjoy it. When I don't have it, I don't really miss it. As a long time DIY'er, I tend to prefer simplicity. Great channel...makes me wish I was back in school.
My dad had a Hydramatic in his 1948 Pontiac, the first year for Pontiac, it always worked perfectly-the sick/weak straight-8 engine not so. We later had a 1955 Star Chief HT (first Pontiac V-8) that had a selector position that would start the car off in 2nd gear, it was listed as the “gas saving” mode. In 1962 I had one of the last perfected versions in my Bonneville, performance was awesome with the big 389 V-8 coupled to the smooth-shifting 4-speed Hydramatic. With the introduction of the new 3-speed Turbo-Hydramatic in 1964-65, the 4-speed was gone but B&M carried-on for years with hi-performance versions.
Sweet videos. I'm just getting into auto transmissions and they're a lot less daunting than I previously though. So interesting to hear about the development of all of the things that go into every transmission today.
Wow! I read the article on Ate up with motor and was wondering would someone ever do a documentary on the topic. Must feel great to be the first! Looking forward to part 2.
Thank you! ateupwithmotor.com/ is incredible. Aaron Seversen has done an amazing amount of research on transmission history. I was thrilled to actually get my hands on one of the original models. Have a great day!
Thank you! I was able to buy a gasket kit, seals, seal rings, and clutches. Bands are even available. I did not see any sources for bushings or any other parts though.
The history of many automotive components goes very deep. I always knew the Hydramatic was introduced in the 1940 Oldsmobile, but it wasn’t created in a vacuum. Thanks for giving some background info on its development and history. The history of things like power steering, power brakes, and automotive air conditioning are nearly just as fascinating, but sadly very little is written on them. As an aside, I’d love to see any info done on a fascinating semi automatic unit from Reo called the Self Shifter. It’s hard to find any info on it, or any actual photos of surviving units.
The oldest car I remember in my family with an automatic was a 1967 Oldsmobile Cutless Supreme. All of the other cars my Dad and my uncles had since the 1940's were manuals. So there was a cost and gas efficiency difference that kept automatics limited to the buyers who could pay for them in the 1950's and 1960's. But by 1970, many cars had automatics that cost almost the same as a manual, so they became more common. All of my cars are automatics (my first was a 1965 Rambler American). Now I drive a 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid that has no shifting at all.
This is a fascinating series. Thanks. My Stepfather started out in skilled trades at the Detroit Transmission plant which was on Riopelle Street in Detroit sometime in the '40's, then moved to Livonia, MI, then on to the Hydra-Matic Willow Run Plant where he retired in about 1985, or so. I worked at Hydra-Matic Willow Run, then later became GM Powertrain from 1977 to 2008. >>> The year was 1977. I operated the cut open machine for the 400 THM torque converter in Dept. 433, Torus Division at Hydra-Matic Willow Run. The converters were rejects from testing; they were removed from racks, and were hand placed, hub down, into a massive chuck that clamped around the outside of the impeller body, (which we simply called the "pump") with the cover, pilot and lugs facing upwards. A plexiglass door was pulled down and the machine was cycled. A thick triangular cutting tool was indexed into the weld as the unit spun. The cycle time was about a minute and a half or so...it seemed. You knew it was almost done when ATF fluid began to get flung on the cover door of the machine. The machine cycle ended. Then you removed it, and the converter cover was separated, or almost separated from the impeller housing but still held by a bare "thread" of the weld, sometimes....then you banged the thing on a metal fixture, if you had to......to pop it open on a table that had a grated surface so that the fluid could drain. Then the internal parts were separated, and sorted down their respective conveyors to be sent thru a washer and put into tubs to be sent back their original department for inspection...and rebuilt...if possible. The bearings were never reused and were junked. Did I mention that the THM400 torque converter, filled with ATF, is heavier than most torque converters? The production on that job was about 200 units per shift...it seems. My partner and I figured out the most time efficient method to do that job, the idea was to keep the machine running with as little time between cycles as possible, and working together, we were able to "bust ass" and get 200 units by lunch time. Then go hide. The boss was happy because we always got the count. It was hard, heavy, filthy work, and guessed what we smelled like when we went home every day? Transmission fluid...you can bet. One thing that used to happen, was that occasionally when the cutting tool got really dull, the chips coming off the operation, would get very hot, and cause a fire inside the machine, aided by the ATFluid igniting...it was so hot. We would look down the aisle to see if the boss was around....and enjoy the fire for a minute as it grew before we reached for the extinguisher...heh. Fun times. In the 3 years I spent in Dept. 433, I did most of the operations making the impeller unit, and can remember the step by step manufacturing process in fairly great detail....Then spent some time in Dept 431 which was the torque converter assembly dept, where they were assembled, welded together, filled with fluid, balanced and tested. I have been retired from Hydra-Matic Willow Run since 2008, and spent several years making planetary pinion gears...and many other jobs. They closed in 2010, and the building was torn down in 2014. It was originally the Willow Run B-24 bomber plant, built by Henry Ford...in 1941...so much history there...Thanks for reading this.
Thank you so much for your fantastic story and more transmission history! I toured the Hydra-Matic Willow Run assembly plant in 1997. They were assembling 4L80-E transmissions on two lines. It was an amazing tour for us GM Training center instructors. One funny thing I remember is the machine that was making valves for the valve body. After they were made, the machine shot them several feet into a giant container. This is funny to me because as instructors we were always told to be very careful with the valves and never to drop them. Thanks again for your wonderful feedback, it is fascinating to me. Best wishes!
Thinking about that further I may have exaggerated the expected production on the cut open operation. It was more like 200 units per shift, not 400, as I recall, and doing the math...I've corrected that above. One other thing that you may be very interested in: The THM400 torque converter that we made back then for the Rolls Royce contract....After the vanes were inserted into the pump housing and crimped into place with their retainer, we had a special welder that spot welded ALL of the contact points, or the 'bumps' that you see on the outside of the converter pump from the outside, securing all of the vanes in the unit as a very solid piece. The result was a coppery looking finish from the heat of the spot welds, and the thing rang like a bell ! Of course significantly fewer of those exceedingly robust units were produced, and were a special order for the RR contract. An existing RR torque converter from that era could verify this information.
Great video and I love your channel. But NO original Hydra-Matics in any Buicks. Full size Buicks we’re Dynaflow thru 1963. Then TH400 and smaller units in smaller Buicks.
John inspired me to look into it, Hydra-Matic in 1940, a 3 planetary 4 forward speeds design, was more than 10 years ahead of everybody else IMO. Buick did Dynaflow which has a torque converter but only one planetary/2 forward speeds, Chevrolet Powerglide was one planetary/2 forward speeds, and those GM divisions would eventually come to heel using the superior technology of Hydra-Matic, Borg Warner / Ford-O-matic was 1 planetary 3 forward speeds Ravegneaux starting in 1951, and Simpson / Torqueflite 2 planetary 3 forward speeds wasn't until 1956. Aaron Severson of ateupbymotor has excellent content on the Hydra-Matic.
My dad’s first car was a 41 olds with it. He wasn’t able to use his left foot for a clutch, so he had to have an automatic. This was about 1952-3 when he was in college.
RUclips automatically transmitted your videos to me. Ha ha. Great show. Thank you. I can see how the tapered (cone shaped) manual tranmision syncro would be considered as a design element for a full automatic transmission, but that gave way to something better yet for fully automatic operation. It is especially interesting that this r&d was done in the 1930's, not in the 50's as I had always imagined. Am binging on these vids right now.
6 degrees of separation? Funny, I attended Weber State during my tenure in the USAF at Hill AFB... and I am a Hudson owner. Hudson was a Hydramatic user...
My late mother drove her mother's '37 Olds as a teen, and she said that the car had a semi-automatic transmission. Though a clutch pedal was still used for starting and stopping, she said that the transmission shifted very much like the Hydra-Matics that she drove in the '40's and '50's. The idea with this four-speed transmission was to shift from Low (1-2) to High (3-4), but she said that driving in High alone was fine, and I think that transmission in High must have shifted 1-3-4.
Thanks for the feedback and great story. I believe 1st or second gear was manually shifted; 3rd and 4th gears were automatically shifted. So 1-3-4 makes the most sense. Have a great day!
My first car was a '53 Studebaker with Automatic Drive. It used a torque converter and started in 2nd gear in normal driving. It had an unusual feature that I haven't encountered since. You could take your foot off the brakes at a stoplight or sign, and the car would not creep. There was an electric locking mechanism that locked the brakes until the accelerator was tapped.
Show me the first transmission fluid was made whale oil especially the Ford transmissions it was a type f they had to have oil that would lubricate the bearings bushings and stuff but the clutches would have to grip
I have one in my shop now. It is in a 1953 Kaiser Dragon L6 flat head. Looks all O.E. K52 was when the transmission was made. My customer wants to make the car a daily driver. I am 62 years old and have knowledge about most of this car ( just have to burn the cob webs off of my memory ) and service manuals to cover the rest.
My first vehicle was a 1954 ford f-100. 239 V-8 Engine and a ford-o-matic transmission. My Father's construction company bought it -- first ford pickup with an automatic transmission. The old time mechanic's didn't understand the new "slush box" transmissions. When the transmission went out the pickup sat in the yard, till my Dad bought it and installed one of those old manual transmissions with no syncro mesh gears. I was the fifth owner First Gibbons and Reed bought it, Then my Dad, Then my oldest brother, Then my next oldest brother, Then me. I paid $100.00 for the pickup and drove it all through high school. Then.. left it sit in my Dad's yard when I went in the Marines in 66. He sold it for $50.00. lol.
Thank you for this series!!! I have a 1950 Lincoln with a 337 flathead and the 4 speed hydra-matic. It seems difficult to find info on this trans. So I appreciate your research. Maybe you could help make a shift kit for it :)
Looking forward to the next one. Excuse my poor knowledge of automatics but can or will you also go through the differences between this and the PowerGlide?
Thank you! Some day I will get my hands on a powerglide and shoot a video. But, the Powerglide is a greatly simplified version of this transmission with only one planetary gear set and a much improved torque converter. Best wishes.
I wonder if a "Model T " transmission could have been automated? It had planetary gears & bands. Actually it had a very interesting transmission with the triple gears mounted on the flywheel. Have you done a Video on the Model T transmission?
The auto transmission that was on my father's new 1959 Ford Zodiac and subsequent cars such as a Rover 3.5 liter, Jaguar 4.2 XJ6) seemed smoother and more pleasant to use than modern electronically controlled auto gearboxes. I have little doubt that modern systems are more fuel efficient but have we actually lost something whilst auto transmissions have evolved? A friend (in the 1970s) had a Jensen Interceptor, with the Chrysler Torque-Flite gearbox and it's the only automatic I've ever driven that I prefer over a manual. Please tell me if I'm being stupidly romantic about older technology.
you do not have to double clutch a manual transmission shifting up in the gears. ONLY when down shifting(think about it). yes I have driven them. also the model T ford was like an automatic transmission in that it did not need synchronizers and shifted like a modern automatic transmission manually operated(user friendly).
This is a long neglected and virtually unknown - to auto enthusiasts - story. All you say is so, but the inspiration for the original Hydro-Matic came from the (British) Daimler Company. Charles Kettering attended the London Motor Show each autumn, and about 1931 purchased a mid-range Daimler because of its fluid flywheel and epicyclic transmission. Eventually the car showed up in Detroit and was studied by GM. Nothing inspiring was found except for the transmission. The essential issue was that this transmission was operated by a series of binary actions, which did not require finesse. Kettering realised that all that was necessary to fully automate a transmission of this character was a "brain" to control the timing of these operations. Design, development and testing of the automatic control system took about five years. Carried over from the Daimler, in particular, was the four speed epicyclic 'box controlled by bands and multi-plate clutches, the fluid flywheel and the column-mounted shifter, allowing three front passengers. Automatic adjustment of the bands was dropped, presumably as an economy measure. I'm a London-based fellow transmission nut!
That is an amazing insight in to a piece of history. Interestingly the transmission in the video has multiple patents, I suspect that the basis of the designs of what was patent originated from the Diamler transmission design. In todays world I have to wonder if that same kind of design theft and then patenting would be permitted.
Truly amazing video, as always! By the way, what can be considered the world's first mass produced automatic transmission equipped with a torque converter (pump + turbine + reactor)?
I think my old 56 olds Super rocket 88 has the same transmission. (had if its not still around) It has a weird gear shift pattern. And the S " super" gear for 4th
The US patent numbers from the plaque are: Pat.No. File Name Issued Title RE21844 1932 Vetter 1941 Automatic Change Speed Gear Mechanism 2176138 1937 Kelley 1939 Combination fluid turbo clutch and variable speed gearing 2193304 1935 Thompson 1940 Change-Speed Mechanism and Control 2193305 1937 Thompson 1940 Brake and Clutch Capacity Control 2193524 1937 Thompson 1940 Change Speed Gearing and Control 2195605 1934 Thompson 1940 Change-Speed Transmission and Control 2204872 1938 Thompson 1940 Change Speed Gearing and Control 2211233 1939 Kelley 1940 Fluid Flywheel Gearing Arrangement 2221393 1938 Carnegie 1940 Variable Speed Control 2270536 1940 Lenning 1942 Transmission Drive Cooling System 2285760 1933 Thompson 1942 Change Speed Gearing with Automatic Overdrive 2362418 1937 Thompson 1944 Clutch and Gearing Control 2377696 1941 Kelley 1945 Transmission Drive 2380680 1940 Thompson 1945 Clutch and Control 2430258 1940 Thompson 1947 Rotary Hydraulic Coupling of the Turbine Type All are available via a Google search. Great video series!
Excellent! One interesting comment about the RE21844. The RE means it was re-issued. The original patent was actually filed November 11, 1931 by John Michael Vetter from the Hague in the Netherlands and then reassigned to General Motors. GM renewed/reissued the patent before it expired on June 24, 1941.
You mentioned that Buick used the Hydra-Matic along with Cadillac and Oldsmobile and others. Buick had their own transmission ( Dynaflo ) which was much different. Buick had many things of their own like the gas pedal starter and torque tube rear axle. Buick shared their Dynaflo with Cadillac for a while due to a factory fire.
Thank you for your feedback. Of course Cadillac would not tell their customers that they had a Buick transmission, so they called it the "Twin Turbine" transmission. I actually have a 1948 Buick Dynaflow transmission I am working on and will shoot a video on its operation as well. As far as I can tell the Buick Dynaflow was the first 2-speed automatic in mass production. The Chevrolet Powerglide that came along a few years later was basically a copy of the Buick Dynaflow transmission. Have a good day
Buick has their own transmission Dynaflow. .'cause buick engineering dept don't like Hydra-matics because the shifting was very rough for Buicks, they looked for something smoother. ...
Is that not crazy fwd transmissions have the same configuration with side mounted valve bodies. got rid of that design in the late 90s due to drainback.
Yes they did, but they were manually activated with a separate pedal on the floor for each gear set. These were automatically engaged at the correct time.
What about the Dodge brothers with the planetary transmission, that Henry Ford used in the Model T. The Federal Government killed the transmission when they mandated a H pattern sliding gear transmission. 1927 Model A. My 1948 DeSoto had a HyDrive., or my Hudson with a selonoid,Vacumm clutched and shifted transmision.
This was the world's first mass produced fully automatic transmission, not the first transmission to use a planetary gear set. Thanks for your feedback.
Professor , I'm watching this series for the sixth time in the last 7 years . Along with the '63 posi series . I've probably said this before , but , you are THE master . Good health , good times to you and yours , Neil 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This is a very underrated channel. I’ve learned so much from your videos. Keep up the good work!
So subscribe, watch, like, so that this channel and John Kelly, the guy in this channel, get more money and can do more transmissions and clutches, and more videos. This channel I'd give an A+ almost 100%, it severally increases my IQ, is mostly easy to memorize the transmissions and clutches, visually and can explain basic functions and common features, and is gonna help me when I design my first car.
Great info especially in realizing that today's technology is built on the hard work and innovation of those that came before.
Thanks for providing this forum.
Yes, that is very true. Thank you for watching.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants
I believe that use in Buicks was either very late or non-existent, as Buick had their own AT called the Dynaflow , starting I believe in the later 40's, which was much less efficient that the Hydra-matic. I am enjoying your video-very well done. BILL
Nice work John!
When I teach the Automatics 1 course at Skyline College I always show the students this unit. This is where
it all started..Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much! Best wishes.
The 4 speed AST transmission with the clutch was installed in a handful of 1938 Buicks. My grandfather who regularly would buy clear title salvage cars and repair and resell them ran across one of these just after the War but not really knowing what it was didn't buy it.
Fun fact, Buick was rather salty about basically being forced by GM management to build these units and install them in their vehicles, so when the AST failed, they had no interest in licensing the Hydramatic, and out of spite developed their own unit. The Dynaflow, which due to WW2, wasn’t finalized and introduced until the 1948 model year.
From a historic standpoint, this series is priceless! Automotive technology fascinates many of us, and these videos hit the nail on the head! I'll watch the whole series with great interest. My 1957 Pontiac has a Hydra-Matic, so it will be interesting to learn what goes on inside that massive chunk of cast iron. Many thanks!
Thanks for watching
Just bought a 1947 Cadillac that has one of these. Love learning about and working on old technology that was state of the art at the time.
History is awesome to show the infancy of the development of automatic transmissions and explain their patents. Its like I am back in college and not falling asleep. Kudos John
Thank you!
Thanks for your deep research into this classic GM transmission, which served in war time and helps us today! Great video series!!
Thank you!
Thank you! It's awesome to have so good teaching for free! This is a very high quality material that took you so many time and effort to produce and you are gracefully sharing it with us. Greetings from Brazil!
Thank you!
Great to see you back!!
Che Kelley Thank you!
Great research and very well told. Thinking about all the thought that went into the improvements over the years reminds me about my personal philosophy as a mechanical engineer. As an older guy now, I have owned all kinds of vehicles from very simple to very complex with all the bells and whistles: from 4 speed manual to a 6 speed DSG transmission. When I have the fancy stuff, I use it and enjoy it. When I don't have it, I don't really miss it. As a long time DIY'er, I tend to prefer simplicity. Great channel...makes me wish I was back in school.
Fantastic to see you back.
Great video as normal.
Thank you.
Systemrat2008 Thank you!
Díky!
Thank you Jaroslav! I am very appreciative of your support
My dad had a Hydramatic in his 1948 Pontiac, the first year for Pontiac, it always worked perfectly-the sick/weak straight-8 engine not so. We later had a 1955 Star Chief HT (first Pontiac V-8) that had a selector position that would start the car off in 2nd gear, it was listed as the “gas saving” mode.
In 1962 I had one of the last perfected versions in my Bonneville, performance was awesome with the big 389 V-8 coupled to the smooth-shifting 4-speed Hydramatic. With the introduction of the new 3-speed Turbo-Hydramatic in 1964-65, the 4-speed was gone but B&M carried-on for years with hi-performance versions.
Awesome! Thanks for your feedback!
Sweet videos. I'm just getting into auto transmissions and they're a lot less daunting than I previously though. So interesting to hear about the development of all of the things that go into every transmission today.
Thank you, they are very interesting
Best videos you ever made!For me, as a GM fan, is a great thing to find out they made the first real automatic transmission.
Thank you!
Wow! I read the article on Ate up with motor and was wondering would someone ever do a documentary on the topic. Must feel great to be the first! Looking forward to part 2.
Thank you! ateupwithmotor.com/ is incredible. Aaron Seversen has done an amazing amount of research on transmission history. I was thrilled to actually get my hands on one of the original models. Have a great day!
Great job demonstrating and explaining. Clear and coherent--unlike most RUclips videos.
Great research, looking forward to the next part. Thanks John.
Toyota Tech Thank you!
very well done. better than my class explanation. hope you grow this channel
This is great! Thanks for doing a historical video!
Thank you!
Quite an interesting story about the first automatic transmission. Such inventive minds often revolutionize the world.
Yes, very interesting series of events and inventions
great master minds at work that opened the doors of the future for us
thanks for your time and your video
Thank you very much!
Thanks, it is a fascinating technology, history of incremental improvements and revolutionary inventions. Looking forward to part 2, thanks again!
Thank you
Thank you Sir for producing this valuable video. May your tribe increase. Long live for you.
Thank you!
Thanks for a great series of videos on this.
Thank you!
Good to see you back! Love your videos!
Thank you!
My favorite trans, R type, dual range hydra-matic. Thanks for the memories. You could not build that trans today.
Thank you! I was able to buy a gasket kit, seals, seal rings, and clutches. Bands are even available. I did not see any sources for bushings or any other parts though.
The history of many automotive components goes very deep. I always knew the Hydramatic was introduced in the 1940 Oldsmobile, but it wasn’t created in a vacuum. Thanks for giving some background info on its development and history. The history of things like power steering, power brakes, and automotive air conditioning are nearly just as fascinating, but sadly very little is written on them.
As an aside, I’d love to see any info done on a fascinating semi automatic unit from Reo called the Self Shifter. It’s hard to find any info on it, or any actual photos of surviving units.
Thank you very much
wonderful to see you back ...
Thank you!
Fascinating, and a great educational opportunity. Looking forward to these videos.
Thank you!
The oldest car I remember in my family with an automatic was a 1967 Oldsmobile Cutless Supreme. All of the other cars my Dad and my uncles had since the 1940's were manuals. So there was a cost and gas efficiency difference that kept automatics limited to the buyers who could pay for them in the 1950's and 1960's. But by 1970, many cars had automatics that cost almost the same as a manual, so they became more common. All of my cars are automatics (my first was a 1965 Rambler American). Now I drive a 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid that has no shifting at all.
Awesome Feedback, Thank you!
This is a fascinating series. Thanks. My Stepfather started out in skilled trades at the Detroit Transmission plant which was on Riopelle Street in Detroit sometime in the '40's, then moved to Livonia, MI, then on to the Hydra-Matic Willow Run Plant where he retired in about 1985, or so. I worked at Hydra-Matic Willow Run, then later became GM Powertrain from 1977 to 2008. >>>
The year was 1977. I operated the cut open machine for the 400 THM torque converter in Dept. 433, Torus Division at Hydra-Matic Willow Run. The converters were rejects from testing; they were removed from racks, and were hand placed, hub down, into a massive chuck that clamped around the outside of the impeller body, (which we simply called the "pump") with the cover, pilot and lugs facing upwards. A plexiglass door was pulled down and the machine was cycled. A thick triangular cutting tool was indexed into the weld as the unit spun. The cycle time was about a minute and a half or so...it seemed. You knew it was almost done when ATF fluid began to get flung on the cover door of the machine. The machine cycle ended. Then you removed it, and the converter cover was separated, or almost separated from the impeller housing but still held by a bare "thread" of the weld, sometimes....then you banged the thing on a metal fixture, if you had to......to pop it open on a table that had a grated surface so that the fluid could drain. Then the internal parts were separated, and sorted down their respective conveyors to be sent thru a washer and put into tubs to be sent back their original department for inspection...and rebuilt...if possible. The bearings were never reused and were junked.
Did I mention that the THM400 torque converter, filled with ATF, is heavier than most torque converters?
The production on that job was about 200 units per shift...it seems. My partner and I figured out the most time efficient method to do that job, the idea was to keep the machine running with as little time between cycles as possible, and working together, we were able to "bust ass" and get 200 units by lunch time. Then go hide. The boss was happy because we always got the count. It was hard, heavy, filthy work, and guessed what we smelled like when we went home every day? Transmission fluid...you can bet. One thing that used to happen, was that occasionally when the cutting tool got really dull, the chips coming off the operation, would get very hot, and cause a fire inside the machine, aided by the ATFluid igniting...it was so hot. We would look down the aisle to see if the boss was around....and enjoy the fire for a minute as it grew before we reached for the extinguisher...heh.
Fun times.
In the 3 years I spent in Dept. 433, I did most of the operations making the impeller unit, and can remember the step by step manufacturing process in fairly great detail....Then spent some time in Dept 431 which was the torque converter assembly dept, where they were assembled, welded together, filled with fluid, balanced and tested.
I have been retired from Hydra-Matic Willow Run since 2008, and spent several years making planetary pinion gears...and many other jobs. They closed in 2010, and the building was torn down in 2014. It was originally the Willow Run B-24 bomber plant, built by Henry Ford...in 1941...so much history there...Thanks for reading this.
Thank you so much for your fantastic story and more transmission history! I toured the Hydra-Matic Willow Run assembly plant in 1997. They were assembling 4L80-E transmissions on two lines. It was an amazing tour for us GM Training center instructors. One funny thing I remember is the machine that was making valves for the valve body. After they were made, the machine shot them several feet into a giant container. This is funny to me because as instructors we were always told to be very careful with the valves and never to drop them. Thanks again for your wonderful feedback, it is fascinating to me. Best wishes!
Thinking about that further I may have exaggerated the expected production on the cut open operation. It was more like 200 units per shift, not 400, as I recall, and doing the math...I've corrected that above.
One other thing that you may be very interested in: The THM400 torque converter that we made back then for the Rolls Royce contract....After the vanes were inserted into the pump housing and crimped into place with their retainer, we had a special welder that spot welded ALL of the contact points, or the 'bumps' that you see on the outside of the converter pump from the outside, securing all of the vanes in the unit as a very solid piece. The result was a coppery looking finish from the heat of the spot welds, and the thing rang like a bell ! Of course significantly fewer of those exceedingly robust units were produced, and were a special order for the RR contract. An existing RR torque converter from that era could verify this information.
That is awesome, thank you!
The Ford Model T used planetary gear sets and brake bands in its transmission,
it also used a planetary gear set in its steering mechanism
True, thank you!
Great video and I love your channel. But NO original Hydra-Matics in any Buicks. Full size Buicks we’re Dynaflow thru 1963. Then TH400 and smaller units in smaller Buicks.
John inspired me to look into it, Hydra-Matic in 1940, a 3 planetary 4 forward speeds design, was more than 10 years ahead of everybody else IMO. Buick did Dynaflow which has a torque converter but only one planetary/2 forward speeds, Chevrolet Powerglide was one planetary/2 forward speeds, and those GM divisions would eventually come to heel using the superior technology of Hydra-Matic, Borg Warner / Ford-O-matic was 1 planetary 3 forward speeds Ravegneaux starting in 1951, and Simpson / Torqueflite 2 planetary 3 forward speeds wasn't until 1956. Aaron Severson of ateupbymotor has excellent content on the Hydra-Matic.
Good stuff! Thanks for your feedback. Aaron does a great job!
Goldmine of a series!
Great video. I just like listening to smart people....
My dad’s first car was a 41 olds with it. He wasn’t able to use his left foot for a clutch, so he had to have an automatic. This was about 1952-3 when he was in college.
I owned one in my 55 Pontiac. Great transmission.
Cool, thanks for all your feedback
RUclips automatically transmitted your videos to me. Ha ha. Great show. Thank you. I can see how the tapered (cone shaped) manual tranmision syncro would be considered as a design element for a full automatic transmission, but that gave way to something better yet for fully automatic operation. It is especially interesting that this r&d was done in the 1930's, not in the 50's as I had always imagined. Am binging on these vids right now.
Thank you! Neat technology!
Buick never used the Hydra-Matic. Buick used Dynaflow from 1948 thru 1963.
Golden information
Thank you Sir, I really enjoy your videos. Looking forward to the next video(s).
Thank you!
Truly the Model T of automatic transmissions.
Even has (what now is) the quirks like the model t had compared to the "typical" car.
Thanks for watching
These hydra-matics were also featured in many GMC trucks as well as the cars.
Love WeberAuto!!!!! Thanks!
Thank you very much!
6 degrees of separation? Funny, I attended Weber State during my tenure in the USAF at Hill AFB... and I am a Hudson owner. Hudson was a Hydramatic user...
My late mother drove her mother's '37 Olds as a teen, and
she said that the car had a semi-automatic transmission. Though a clutch pedal was still used for
starting and stopping, she said that the transmission shifted very much like the
Hydra-Matics that she drove in the '40's and '50's. The idea with this four-speed transmission
was to shift from Low (1-2) to High (3-4), but she said that driving in High
alone was fine, and I think that transmission in High must have shifted
1-3-4.
Thanks for the feedback and great story. I believe 1st or second gear was manually shifted; 3rd and 4th gears were automatically shifted. So 1-3-4 makes the most sense. Have a great day!
My first car was a '53 Studebaker with Automatic Drive. It used a torque converter and started in 2nd
gear in normal driving. It had an unusual feature that I haven't encountered since. You could take your foot off the brakes at a stoplight or sign, and the car would not creep. There was an electric locking mechanism that locked the brakes until the accelerator was tapped.
Very cool! Thank you
Found this: www.hemmings.com/blog/2008/04/13/sia-flashback-almost-automatic/
Show me the first transmission fluid was made whale oil especially the Ford transmissions it was a type f they had to have oil that would lubricate the bearings bushings and stuff but the clutches would have to grip
Thanks a lot!!! That's so educational!!!
Thank you!
I have one in my shop now. It is in a 1953 Kaiser Dragon L6 flat head. Looks all O.E.
K52 was when the transmission was made. My customer wants to make the car a daily driver.
I am 62 years old and have knowledge about most of this car ( just have to burn the cob webs off of my memory ) and service manuals to cover the rest.
That is awesome! Best wishes on your project!
Daily driver? Good luck!
I love you videos and channel
Thank you!
My first vehicle was a 1954 ford f-100. 239 V-8 Engine and a ford-o-matic transmission.
My Father's construction company bought it -- first ford pickup with an automatic transmission. The old time mechanic's didn't understand the new "slush box" transmissions. When the transmission went out the pickup sat in the yard, till my Dad bought it and installed one of those old manual transmissions with no syncro mesh gears. I was the fifth owner First Gibbons and Reed bought it, Then my Dad, Then my oldest brother, Then my next oldest brother, Then me. I paid $100.00 for the pickup and drove it all through high school. Then.. left it sit in my Dad's yard when I went in the Marines in 66. He sold it for $50.00. lol.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series_second_generation
That is a great story! Thanks for your feedback!
Hello!
How about using, a motorcycle engine oil, that is mixed with the gearbox and the wet clutch of the motorcycle, in a ATF transmission?
A true master !!!!!!!!!!
This channel is great. John seems like a caring individual. Would he allow me to LIVE in the shop? I think I'd like that.
Thank you!
Thank you for this series!!! I have a 1950 Lincoln with a 337 flathead and the 4 speed hydra-matic. It seems difficult to find info on this trans. So I appreciate your research. Maybe you could help make a shift kit for it :)
Thank you! That would be quite a challenge
Looking forward to the next one. Excuse my poor knowledge of automatics but can or will you also go through the differences between this and the PowerGlide?
Thank you! Some day I will get my hands on a powerglide and shoot a video. But, the Powerglide is a greatly simplified version of this transmission with only one planetary gear set and a much improved torque converter. Best wishes.
I wonder if a "Model T " transmission could have been automated?
It had planetary gears & bands.
Actually it had a very interesting transmission with the triple gears mounted on the flywheel.
Have you done a Video on the Model T transmission?
Thank you so much for posting this video! I’m in the process of buying a 1951 Pontiac Chieftain and am trying to learn everything I can about it.
You are welcome! Thanks for your feedback!
love all your videos... btw...
The auto transmission that was on my father's new 1959 Ford Zodiac and subsequent cars such as a Rover 3.5 liter, Jaguar 4.2 XJ6) seemed smoother and more pleasant to use than modern electronically controlled auto gearboxes. I have little doubt that modern systems are more fuel efficient but have we actually lost something whilst auto transmissions have evolved? A friend (in the 1970s) had a Jensen Interceptor, with the Chrysler Torque-Flite gearbox and it's the only automatic I've ever driven that I prefer over a manual. Please tell me if I'm being stupidly romantic about older technology.
I know what you are talking about. Thanks for watching
I wonder how it would handle a neutral drop from the period correct motor after both receiving a oem rebuild
Thank You... very informative... :)
Thank you!
you do not have to double clutch a manual transmission shifting up in the gears. ONLY when down shifting(think about it).
yes I have driven them. also the model T ford was like an automatic transmission in that it did not need synchronizers and shifted like a modern automatic transmission manually operated(user friendly).
Thanks for your feedback
How many bearings do a small block Chevy have?
What's a good book to read about Hydra-Matics or just maybe the history of automatic transmission in general?
awesome !!!
Thank you!
Brilliant video as always! Why is there no rust on anything if it's cast iron?
Thank you!, It was coated with 3 layers of paint and a lot of old oil and grease. We bead blasted it clean and coated it with WD-40
This is a long neglected and virtually unknown - to auto enthusiasts - story. All you say is so, but the inspiration for the original Hydro-Matic came from the (British) Daimler Company.
Charles Kettering attended the London Motor Show each autumn, and about 1931 purchased a mid-range Daimler because of its fluid flywheel and epicyclic transmission.
Eventually the car showed up in Detroit and was studied by GM. Nothing inspiring was found except for the transmission. The essential issue was that this transmission was operated by a series of binary actions, which did not require finesse.
Kettering realised that all that was necessary to fully automate a transmission of this character was a "brain" to control the timing of these operations. Design, development and testing of the automatic control system took about five years. Carried over from the Daimler, in particular, was the four speed epicyclic 'box controlled by bands and multi-plate clutches, the fluid flywheel and the column-mounted shifter, allowing three front passengers. Automatic adjustment of the bands was dropped, presumably as an economy measure.
I'm a London-based fellow transmission nut!
Thanks for your feedback, that is great information!
That is an amazing insight in to a piece of history.
Interestingly the transmission in the video has multiple patents, I suspect that the basis of the designs of what was patent originated from the Diamler transmission design.
In todays world I have to wonder if that same kind of design theft and then patenting would be permitted.
Gracias por este vídeo
Thank you!
Truly amazing video, as always! By the way, what can be considered the world's first mass produced automatic transmission equipped with a torque converter (pump + turbine + reactor)?
The 1948 Buick Dynaflow 2-speed
I think my old 56 olds Super rocket 88 has the same transmission. (had if its not still around) It has a weird gear shift pattern. And the S " super" gear for 4th
Fascinating stuff! Thanks for the feedback.
great video! is that a toyota 3mz-fe on the right in the back on the engine stand?
Thank you! Yes, it is out of a 2008 Lexus RX 350h
The US patent numbers from the plaque are:
Pat.No. File Name Issued Title
RE21844 1932 Vetter 1941 Automatic Change Speed Gear Mechanism
2176138 1937 Kelley 1939 Combination fluid turbo clutch and variable speed gearing
2193304 1935 Thompson 1940 Change-Speed Mechanism and Control
2193305 1937 Thompson 1940 Brake and Clutch Capacity Control
2193524 1937 Thompson 1940 Change Speed Gearing and Control
2195605 1934 Thompson 1940 Change-Speed Transmission and Control
2204872 1938 Thompson 1940 Change Speed Gearing and Control
2211233 1939 Kelley 1940 Fluid Flywheel Gearing Arrangement
2221393 1938 Carnegie 1940 Variable Speed Control
2270536 1940 Lenning 1942 Transmission Drive Cooling System
2285760 1933 Thompson 1942 Change Speed Gearing with Automatic Overdrive
2362418 1937 Thompson 1944 Clutch and Gearing Control
2377696 1941 Kelley 1945 Transmission Drive
2380680 1940 Thompson 1945 Clutch and Control
2430258 1940 Thompson 1947 Rotary Hydraulic Coupling of the Turbine Type
All are available via a Google search.
Great video series!
Great work! Even more interesting to me are the patent application dates, they tell the true story of who did what and when.
You are right. I added year of each patent application.
Excellent! One interesting comment about the RE21844. The RE means it was re-issued. The original patent was actually filed November 11, 1931 by John Michael Vetter from the Hague in the Netherlands and then reassigned to General Motors. GM renewed/reissued the patent before it expired on June 24, 1941.
Was This Auto Made Before The 2 Speed GM Power Glide Hydromatic?
Yes, the Powerglide was not produced until 1953. Thanks for watching
Any videos on the jetaway hydra-matic 315🙏.????????
I have one on the workbench right now. I hope to have a new video after this semester. Thanks for the feedback!
WeberAuto thank you! Anxiously awaiting 👍👍
Please record a video, you will be the first if you include assembly. I cannot find any videos of this trans being rebuilt
The best
Thank you!
You mentioned that Buick used the Hydra-Matic along with Cadillac and Oldsmobile and others. Buick had their own transmission ( Dynaflo ) which was much different. Buick had many things of their own like the gas pedal starter and torque tube rear axle. Buick shared their Dynaflo with Cadillac for a while due to a factory fire.
Thank you for your feedback. Of course Cadillac would not tell their customers that they had a Buick transmission, so they called it the "Twin Turbine" transmission. I actually have a 1948 Buick Dynaflow transmission I am working on and will shoot a video on its operation as well. As far as I can tell the Buick Dynaflow was the first 2-speed automatic in mass production. The Chevrolet Powerglide that came along a few years later was basically a copy of the Buick Dynaflow transmission. Have a good day
Su inventor fue Ladislao Biró, argentino.
Thank you!
My father had 55 olds with one. That car was a tank itself.
Awesome! Thanks for watching
Between horses and the first car man came into contact with alien technology because the leap was amazing
Buick has their own transmission Dynaflow. .'cause buick engineering dept don't like Hydra-matics because the shifting was very rough for Buicks, they looked for something smoother. ...
Yes, I have one here on my bench from a 1948 Roadmaster. I hope to have a video on it this summer.
WeberAuto thank you, thank you very much. ..can't wait...
My dad told me that hydramatic was introduced on some 1939 oldsmobiles.
I thnik that first one required shifting with not clutch use.
Is that not crazy fwd transmissions have the same configuration with side mounted valve bodies. got rid of that design in the late 90s due to drainback.
Thanks for your feedback. Almost all FWD transaxles use the side mounted valve bodies today
Fluids are the life blood of a car.
Yes they are, Thanks for your feedback
My guess this is the transmission described in the Movie "Grease" "Hydromatic"...
Best of all is The automatic transmission enabled every dope and dill to get get behind the of a car who can't drink a manual car
Earl Thomson would have been amazed at the technology Now in 2018 with 10 speed auto
Yes, thank you for your feedback!
it was also used in GMC trucks
how you gona talk first auto-trans , with out mentioning the M5 Stuart tank. so why does our Stuart tank grind so bad when trying to put in reverse ?
Didn't the model T use planetary gears?
Yes they did, but they were manually activated with a separate pedal on the floor for each gear set. These were automatically engaged at the correct time.
I have family 1953 caddy I restored it has all plane bearing like most engines no roller bearing
Dynaflow please !!!!
Thanks for your feedback!
What about the two Brazilian engineers who designed it?
What about the Dodge brothers with the planetary transmission, that Henry Ford used in the Model T. The Federal Government killed the transmission when they mandated a H pattern sliding gear transmission. 1927 Model A. My 1948 DeSoto had a HyDrive., or my Hudson with a selonoid,Vacumm clutched and shifted transmision.
This was the world's first mass produced fully automatic transmission, not the first transmission to use a planetary gear set. Thanks for your feedback.
About “the group of people that came together” to buy the invention from 2 Brazilians called Jose Braz and Fernando Lemos.