You should really color the AMD bars orange or light orange for more clarity. I'm surprised your eyes are not getting tired to see all blue all the time. Just a friendly advice!
Intels marketing is so bad, I cant imagine what was going on in their heads. If only they had shown benchmarks, 12100 vs 3300x for example, they would be so dominant. Is it so bad to rule the sub 600 dollar market? Instead we got a hyper OCed 12900ks which is just beyond stupid. No one wants a hotter 12900k.
@@Superiorer Oh, absolutely. Intel’s presenters are so bafflingly incompetent. All it takes is one look at their product lineup and a few brain cells to realize that Intel is now the clearly best option for anyone who doesn’t need a 5950X, and even for the people who do, the 12900 and 12900K are making that particular $800 chip look increasingly overpriced.
The only part in the Intel presentation that I found interesting was the Arc Alchemist stuff, and it was way too short too. They should've given us more details.
@@Superiorer I don't understand your complains. Intel is bad for launching 4 Cores CPUs, selling 6 Cores CPUs for less than 200 USD or not announcing that they sell those chips? Have fun with 3D cache from 5800x3D I can predict AMD not launching 4 or 6 Cores of those versions of CPUs just like there are not 5300 version.
@@neoperol He's not complaining about them doing it, he's critiquing their lack of sharing about them. I'd add that it seems the cutdown chipset to get is the H170, not the b660, but wonder if most board makers will avoid it due to lack of consumer awareness.
Yup the12700k on ddr4 b class is the only viable cpu from the 12th gen line up.( the 12900k is an out of touch dumpster fire) and its so refreshing to hear it called what it is "the best option for highend gaming" fuck buying a 1500$ CPU RAM and MoBo for gaming.
I would also consider the 12700F coupled with a B660F from Asus you can OC through BCLK, the first tests show that with a decent cooling @5.1GHz all Pcores 1.35v, highest cores temp reach the 80ish degree on cbr23, this CPU is blowing the price/performance ratio!
@@tobytoxd Yes you can OC both but only with an ECG mobo, if you need an IGPU then take a 12700 if not then save some bucks... DDR5 are expensive nowadays ;)
I was gonna do the same, but then they sold the 12600K for $250, and the 12700 as $400, so I skipped the 12700. But my Asus B660m tuf gaming plus seems to have the BCLK in bios so I might check what happens if i enable that :)
@Garrus Vakarian You have a 12700K system yet you're waiting for AM5? What waiting? You have a 2 month old system. Also in all of these comments, you keep comparing the 5800X to the the 12700 when it's locked at 65W which isn't a fair comparison. But if we wanna play that game, the 12700 when locked at 65W has the same 10 game average FPS as the 5800X. Stop shilling for one company over another
@Garrus Vakarian If you don't want to look like you're a shill, then quit repeatedly pointing out a cherry picked stat like "it's 15% slower than the 5800X". The 12700 has a higher multi and single core score, better Photoshop and Chromium code compile score, almost the same Corona and Premiere score, and same gaming performance as the 5800X while locked at 65W. If the 12700 isn't efficient, then how bad is the 5800X?
On the other hand AMD didn't get close to AMD in gaming until Zen 2, 3 releases of Ryzen chips. Even then Intel still had an advantage, took them til Zen 3 to be mostly competitive in games. Ryzen was always good for multicore performance tho.. the early chips had issues with latency.
Thanks for all your work, based on your tests and others I just built a i7-12700 using the mag mortar b660m for a work station. Talk about an upgrade, going from a i5 4460 and 8gb ram, old hdd so old that it was IDE only, to this and 32gb ram and a m.2 4.0 drive. Just an after market fan cooler for me though, the toughair 510 seems to be doing a good enough job so far.
i would like to see this directly compared to the 12600kf. would like to see how the extra cache does compared to the higher clocks, and whats better for the money.
@@internetuser4689 yeah Ryzen 5800x3D will be 500$+. It will be cheaper only if other Ryzen price begins to drop now, and it's not dropping. In my country 5600x = 370$ and 12600kf = 325$. Considering that the 12600kf is 5800x tier of a CPU and it costs 50$ less than 5600x it's a total steal combined with b660 motherboard.
@@damara2268 Why are using B660 motherboard with 12600K? I was also wondering what I am gonna lose if use unlocked processor with B660 Motherboard something like B660M Mortar or B660M Tuf or Aorus Pro ( I know it can't overclock and how much performance loss etc).
@@rasheedarif you can't overclock the CPU, that's all you lose. Imo there's not really a point to overclock it because it already runs at 4.5ghz during all-core workload. Yes you can maybe get to 5ghz for the 8% performance increase but the CPU will take about 30% more power and get hotter. 8% performance isn't worth 30% higher power draw I'd say. Even at stock speeds it's like overclocked Ryzen 5800x. If you want even higher performance you can go for i7 12700f, it's not much more expensive than 12600k and it has performance like a Ryzen9 5900x which costs 200$ more
2 years late, but I'm here because I've been running an R7 5800X, and recently acquired my grandpa's Dell XPS with an i7 12700 that he's been using to file taxes.
so, what is the value of e core on desktop? if they want to say that it is good for saving power, than put it on celeron/pentium/i3 processor as they build for basic computing. just let i7/i9 go with all p core
@@Jimster481 that exactly what i think. even in mobile product. intel always put their sku with 2 less pcores and then put 8/6 e cores. next, look at very low base clock to claim such low tdp. the 15w rated tdp only have 1.1 ghz at e cores and 1.6-1.8 ghz at p cores. then they can boost to 55w 😂. if you put e cores to save powers, then why they need a boost clock? also they put more e cores than p cores in mobile series 😂.
you guys released the 12700 review before anyone else! Loved the new box cooler and B660 deep dive too. For those on a budget its nice to see Intel match or do better than a Wraith Stealth AMD cooler.
Confirmation of the price: $339, or $314 for the F model. (1000-unit pricing, as always.) This thing genuinely might be the best 12th-gen CPU, and is almost certainly a stone-cold 5900X killer. Good job, Intel.
Yeah, I am surprised AMD hasn't lowered prices yet. Let's put 12700k pricing against 5900x, as the 12700 (non k) generally cannibalizes it's older brother. 5900x at like 425-450$ competes well with a 420$ 12700k. Makes me wonder if they are writing this year off, and keeping prices high until zen 4 comes out.
@@richardwolfangel4724 Seems like an incredibly cynical move if AMD is doing so. Honestly, I’m beginning to appreciate boring old Intel a lot more now that their products are good.
@@richardwolfangel4724 I’ll go a step further: I think the 12700 effectively cannibalizes the 12600K. 25% more multi-core performance for 25% more money doesn’t seem so good at first sight, but then you realize the 12600K -> 12700 swap is the *only* change you have to make to an existing 12600K system to unlock that extra performance. For an extra $50, that’s just a no-brainer.
@@richardwolfangel4724 AMD are still selling like hot cakes, there is no push for them to lower the prices, they have like 6-7 processors in the TOP10 seller list of most retailers. Intel 12xxx availability is pretty low at the moment and the lower chipsets are only now coming to the market, that's probably sustaining the AMD adoption rate, once Intel gets more product to the market AMD will likely lower prices, they might do it when they introduce the R7 5800X3D, since they will probably want to stay in the same price segment with that chip, while lowering the 5800X and 5600X, there's no need for them to lower their 12 and 16 cores, as they are unique on the market for those who need a lot of cores, Intel offers nothing in that space, not talking about performance, but just number of the same core you can divide and conquer however you like for your needs.
I wish you also compare it to the i5 12600K as well. I'm thinking of getting one for Davinci Resolve but I'm not sure if I should get the i5 12600K or the i7 12700(non-K).
They currently have huge demand for milan X server CPUs which uses same zen 3 chiplets. That's why 5800X3D launching a bit late as well. Don't expect AMD prices to get much better.
Very good results! One hack with the stock coolers to drastically reduce temperatures is to separate the incoming and outgoing air. I cut a circle in the side of a small cardboard box and placed it over my R5 1600AF stock cooler to draw air from the front of my case and it dropped temps by ~7C. I had to tape a paper ring into the cooler to get it to sit straight, but you could probably use a paper bag or something more flexible and not worry about it. This is in a case with 3 filtered front intake fans and an RX580.
Oh wow that's genius and just like how you'd put car intake's within an enclosed box to let it get fresh air from the outside and not soak in warm air from around the engines, I wonder if this is going to be a thing in the future with coolers
@@Wakabatan it kind of already works that way with tower coolers. I think it'd be a bit expensive to make something good looking while working for thin cases which is where stock coolers are often used. You'd have to have some boxed duct that can fit over memory, etc. What I did on my fx8350 back in the day was turn the fan around and duct it to the hole in the side of my case. It did lower temps a bit, but that cooler was so noisy anyway I quickly got an AM3 tower cooler.
@@LU-gf8jz It seems RUclips is very resistant to putting links into comments. If you're really interested, I put a link to a Google Photos album in my about page. Not the best photos, but it shows both ideas.
Bloody hell, $170 for a board decent enough to run the cpu at stock speeds! That makes no sense. It's becoming increasingly pointless to buy a board with future upgrades in mind.
Yep. Well, at least it's no way near as bad on AMD. A average $90-$120 B450 motherboard will power a 5950X within 3% of it's "regular" performance just fine.
Intel is greedy, but honestly, AMD is just smaller and still has to fight for the market way more. They do very greedy moves themselves whenever they can. I don't think their next socket will last as long. Besides, the best products are just a mistake. Everyone who remembers P2 era remembers the Celeron 300A with ridiculous overclockung potential and pretty much the same ipc as P2. Also, there was a dual socket Abit board (BP6 if memory serves) that could run Celerons and overclock them. Neither existed because Intel exactly wanted them to exist, but they were incredible value. Then in P4 era, Athlon64x2 was a serious threat, better then the Pentium D. Intel first had lowered their prices (they had to in order to stay competitive), and then they came out with the Core2 chips - I had my Q6600 for 6 years, the longest I had a machine. Pretty sure that wasn't their plan, market situation helped, but still, it was a brilliant value Intel.
@@warrenskeen9203 sometimes I get a decent board and a cheap cpu, so in the future I could upgrade to the more powerful one. For example, if you get an i3, you can still upgrade to an i9 at least in the same, if not the next generation. More realistically, you'll get an i7. I'm OK with actually spending a bit more for the motherboard to be able to do this. I'm not OK with spending so much more that it will be cheaper to do an entire platform swap in the future.
Ah. Not for me then. An office computer, media server, or other low computing power PC will get a lot out of having one or two E-cores, and it'll make them more efficient.
@@Spido68_the_spectator I'm excited for those. Intel seems to be owning the low end game right now, considering I can't find Ryzen 3-5000 series anywhere.
We're also going to need to know the motherboards that allow max turbo all the time 😁 No sense in wasting free performance! This board will definitely be on my list.
If you go to advanced power settings and set minimum to 90 or 95%, all cores will run most of the time, but since that's happening you may not see turbo boost
@@rawdez_ unless we are talking about AM4 motherboards for some reason - low end kind of works exactly as advertised with less features but strong enough vrms to run the chips even 5950x can be run with cheap 100$ motherboards decently
@@rawdez_ it's mostly about getting what they advertised and I think it's a pretty nice coincidence than anything amd planned as vrms are made by the board partners. Or it maybe because am4 CPUs strictly stick to their power envelope than new intel ones - setting a good power limit is very important for sustained performance as you can prevent excessive temperatures from building up earlier on a workload.
@@rawdez_ I personally have a sub 100$ b550 giagbyte motherboard (ds3h) - no vrm mosfets on the back of the motherboard as far as I can see with my eyes but well that's anecdotal and neither here nor there. Still they are all capable of driving the 65W parts without much of a hitch as far as I can tell it's 100W that's going to be an issue - And I can attest to mine running a 5900x without too much issue (the temps sky rocket of course)
I wouldn't really liken watching some benchmarking videos to navigating a minefield. It is extremely easy nowadays to buy good products because there are these RUclips channels that do all the testing work for the consumers. Literally all you have to do is look at a video and remove the bad motherboards from your list of options. Then just choose whichever fits your needs, and budget, from the ones that are left.
Yeah... Picked up a 5800x on black friday for $300. I don't think there's any beating that, especially on a 5 year old chipset previously running a 2700x.
Is that the new "unboxing" set you were speaking about some videos ago? It looks very nice, but, as a feedback, I think you have to work a little bit on the lighting: the desk and lower half of the screen look way brighter than the upper half of it, when your head in particular tends to blend with the background to the extent that your face seems to be floating around all by itself. Thanks for your videos!
Great video. I have to admit I haven’t watch too much Intel content as I have recently built a PC and therefore will be skipping at least one generation. However I’m really impressed with the 12th gens 1% lows they look to be a more impressive gain over the Zen 3 processors than the overall frame rate. It would be good to see the 1440p data at some point even if only an average as it will help to show when the best time to upgrade will be. If there is little difference between a 12700 and a 5800x at 1440p then nothing to worry about yet, so to speak.
@@PrinceVinc cpu can effect 1% lows meaning it can be a factor. So you see in t multiple reviews that the 1% lows are improved with the 12900k. This is probably down to the efficiency cores dealing with background processes so all the performance cores can be dedicated to dealing with the data from the gpu. Some reviewers would also argue the frame timing is more consistent as well. This is why although most games don’t need more than 8 cores, frame timings and 1% lows can be better with a 12 core cpu for example.
@@PrinceVinc ah I see, the CPU’s can be bottlenecked at lower resolutions as they are having to process more frames from the gpu. At 1440p cpu aren’t having to process as many frames so if there is little difference in fps between the CPUs then no need to replace for a while.
So celeron is 2C/2T true dual core. Cool bro , i hope it can handle W11 and MS PAINT/WORD . Sure it's not going to send rockets to space, but i would like to see benchmarks of that Pentium and Celeron, can they run crysis ? :D
of course it can run Crysis, Crysis is, first of all, poorly threaded so even if you have many cores it doesn't use most of them and then it's a game made in a time when 4 cores were the top dog. You don't need much processing power to just run an operating system and use the browser or Word. 4-8 Cores is gaming territory and anything above that is work station stuff.
When asking about a Celery, the question is if it is snappy enough and capable of basic tasks like 4K playback. Is the iGPU adequate?? Are the lanes and ports gimped? Is this a 60fps gaming experience (with a GPU that exceeds the CPU speed)?
@@peterpan408 yes and no. Get a pentium, it has 4 threads which is bare minimum for any kind of confort and, as you want, 4k playback without lags and stutters. And as for gamming - Celerons can't game yet. The iGPU at that level is far from great, but it can handle videos and stuff well.
Alder Lake cooling test using known AIOs that are compatible with Alder Lake maybe using only the stand off retro fit kits and the actual 1700 pin mounting brackets and comparing would be fantastic!
To see a 65-watt Intel CPU that’s (allegedly) cheaper than the 5800X and perform just as well is great! It’ll be an exciting year as next-gen Ryzen gets released. I want to upgrade so bad but also don’t know how long it’ll take for next-gen to come out
@Garrus Vakarian Thats the worst case scenario and not many people use blender daily. In most cases the 12700 is beating or on par with the 5900x, a much more expensive CPU.
@Garrus Vakarian the two competing companies didn’t release their highest-end processors at the same time recently with the previous generation and this generation being very far apart. However, you can only compare what you have with what’s out. That’s why whenever Intel releases something “later” than AMD, you can’t just stop comparisons between the two companies for months. 12th-gen Intel has been out for months now; this is just a lower-binned processor launch after their main launch - just like what all the major chip companies (AMD, Nvidia, etc.) do. AMD didn’t release a refresh in 2021, so reviewers had no choice but to compare Intel’s 2021 processors with AMD’s 2020 processors. Raptor Lake and Zen4 will both launch (allegedly) Q3/Q4 this year, so that will be more of an apples-to-apples comparison. Although the 5800X did much better than the 65-watt 12700 in Blender, that’s cherry-picking data. Not only was the 5800X’s system consumption vastly greater in that one benchmark, but the 12700 either matched or bested the 5800X in all other CPU benchmarks besides one where it lost in a very minor sense. However, that’s with taking a bat to the kneecaps of the 12700 and power-limiting it. If the motherboard doesn’t allow the processor to suck down more than 65 watts of power, Intel XTU allows you to choose the wattage you want your processor to run at (you can choose 95W, 100W, 200W, etc.). The question is always what is the best now. In a couple months, that could be Ryzen 3D. For now, it’s Intel hands-down. Price is also a big question. The 12700’s MSRP is 15% lower than the 5800X’s. So, that has to be factored in, too. In conclusion, no one should Stan a company. No company - not even AMD - is looking out for your best interests. They may advertise and present things that pull people’s emotional heartstrings, but in the end, they want money. Right now, to get money, both them and Intel have to pull out more stops than ever before which is great! Let’s just hope that each generation roughly matches each other between the two, because there is no doubt that in the face of no competition, the improvements we’ve been accustomed to will disappear. We will go back to a tick-tock leap in performance per year. No company wants to sink tons of money into R&D if they don’t need to - neither Intel nor AMD. Edited for grammar since I’m on mobile
@Garrus Vakarian yeah and blender uses avx 512 smartass.I've seen you in many comment reply sections on this video maybe stop shit talking and talk about the actual stuff that was mentioned in the video.In most cases the 12700 beats up a 5800x at 65w and absolutely crushes the 5900x in most tests when power limits are removed while consuming the same amount of power.
Intel should really have included box cooler for all of their CPU, especially this generation. I am trying to build an Intel Aelder Lake system and find cooler to be a pain in the butt to find, my options are limited to either go AIO or wait two weeks (who know, maybe more) for the Aelder Lake adapter bracket to arrive. Even for the K series, it would be nice if I can at least and verified that my components is working within 7 days so that I can RMA with the retailer.
Thank you for discussing the box cooler. I'm getting a 12700 and the same mobo with 3600mhz C16 RAM sticks. I'm not an overclocker and I'll stick to 65w for the moment
@DaKrawnik420 They had 1600, 2600 and 3600, so it was reasonable to expect a 5600 non-X. But I can think of several reasons to why we havent seen a non-X yet. Yields? Why sell a non-X if it can be sold as an X for more profit? Silicone shortage?
I was having drops in kill zone rpcs3 10k resolution with my 12400, and my fps would drop to 40s and back to 60. With my 12700, I hardly get any drops using the same resolution. Timespliters dolphin 8k I got drops using 12400. I no longer get those using the 12700. LFD2 would give me drops to the 60s from 120fps using multiple graphic mods using a 3080 RTX/12400. I no longer get those big drops with the 12700. This card is a monster. I didn't expect it to stabilize my FPs so much, but I was hoping it did.
I'm surprised you didn't leave the 12600k in the mix because I believe this is one of the CPUs people would compare against to determine if they want to move up a tier especially if they already purchased one like I have. The 12700 looks worth the extra $30 expected price difference given that there is a significant 12% or more performance increase. Might be something I look into as an upgrade if the 12600k can keep it's value in the used market.
@Garrus Vakarian Honestly, 5.2 is a laughable OC for my money. Don't get me wrong, I've been OC-ing all my CPU's since like P166MMX and I understand the appeal perfectly well. Hell, I used to buy only the most overclockable CPU's on the market, otherwise I wasn't interested. But this time I feel like it's not worth it in terms of gains vs losses, all things considered. It's like what, ~9% overclock against stock numbers? Pathetic tbh. Compare that to the glorious CPU's of the past like Q6600, i5-2500k etc. where you could get +30-40% OC on air easily and even + 50% if you were really lucky and/or determined.
@Garrus Vakarian But i7-12700k runs at 4900 MHz all (P) cores if power limits are disabled and you have a good cooler. And I assume most mb's allow to disable power limits even for non-K versions. So it's really 4,9 -> 5,2 OC. Though i might be wrong. I need to look this sh*t up tbh.
@Garrus Vakarian Well, according to intel's website 12700k has P-cores' Max Turbo Frequency of 4.9 GHz. (And 12700 non-K - 4.8GHz) Idk, but my assumption is it should potentially hit those numbers on all P-cores, provided you have power limits disabled or lifted in the BIOS and a good enough CPU cooler (to avoid thermal throttling). But I might be wrong, modern CPU's auto boosting techs seem like a bit of a complicated mess.
@@__aceofspades Power usage is not really much of a consideration for most gaming rigs. I highly doubt the 12400 will be significantly faster (if at all) in most games compared to a overclocked 9900k.
I still have a i7 3770. That would be an upgrade. Not from a 9900k to 12400 / 12600. I only upgrade a cpu / gpu when the speed advantage is at least 2x
On the power consumption. Hot VRM could be the main reason. I would set the Fans RPM manually for such test but if the fans are on Auto they will speed up as well on higher temps. I didnt saw them but the lower CPU temps also improve efficiency. Not sure how much but certainly helps too. Im curious whats the difference in power usage of the coolers only. Were they on max or auto?
@@concinnus I said "lower temps also improve efficiency". Thats what I meant. But the difference is too big only for that IMO. The temp difference has to be much bigger if its only the power leakage.
@@n1kobg I can't find any new research, but on older nodes where leakage was less important, overall current still increased at ~2%/K, so it absolutely could be the predominant reason.
I was waiting for this review! I'm most interested in 12700 because I'm not planning on buying a GPU for my pc build, Steve and Tim aka hammer on box thank you
@@gurjindersingh3843 I'm done with laptops bro, I had a i5 3rd Gen intelhd4000m igpu for 8 years, it's about time to go pc now, also I'm going to get a GPU in the future when prices become normal so I don't really need a beast igpu, uhd 770 will suffice until then
This video ultimately ended up selling me a new cpu upgrade from a 3700X. i love this thing. dropped into a DDR4 board, 65W mode engaged. It's still very fast. And interestingly I turned PL2 down from the stock 180W to 100W. I wonder if this is just a flat out gain in efficiency, because peak power draw went from 148W to 100W with hardly any further impact. In fact some benchmarks scored like 1% better. Value to performance is great on this one
I have my doubts about VRM efficiency changes accounting for the power usage going up when thermally limited in Blender, especially absent any presented data about those VRM thermals. There are some other possibilities: (1) The CPU cores may be in a "busy" state for slightly longer (in wall time) while processing the load, because their clock rate has diminished. (2) In a thermally throttled state, it's also likely that the CPU is operating at it's highest voltage level, despite slightly lower clock speeds, since it's trying to boost as far as possible, whereas a CPU with thermal headroom will enter a lower power state before reducing clock speed. (3) System fans may be pulling additional power (since you are reporting total system power) when the CPU temperature is higher. If you did not set static speeds for all fans across test configurations, this is actually my best guess, as 14W usage wouldn't be far off from 3-4 fans spinning up. If these conditions are true, then you wouldn't see power usage go down if you were somehow able to add some cooling to the VRM while keeping the CPU overheated.
You and Steve are both overthinking it. CPU transistors have more leakage current at higher temps. This matters far more than any MOSFET efficiency change, and the 3 fans+pump of the AIO surely use as much power as the stock cooler fan.
I love this video, my 10900f with a Mortar B460 was choosed by recomendation of a previous video from you, now I´ve seen the benchs with the 12700 can say no need to upgrade in some time till the difference in performance goes even more significant for my workflow. Thanks for the useful information.
Thanks for the review. Nice to see a box cooler included - reducing costs. That said, in NZ you can buy a budget AM4 MB from $100 which should pair up with a new CPU in '3Dx' months time. Upgrading my Zen 2 to Zen 3 is way more cheaper than buying an all new Intel setup - if it wasn't good enough already...
As an itx builder, I am actually much more interested in RM1 cooler, rather than the cpus. The cooler is very impressive given the 47mm height, it performs almost the same as axp90. If I haven't bought axp90 already, I'd rather buy a 12700, not a 12700k, just for the cooler.
This is why competition is good. My 5900X needs no upgrades, especially at my 1440p res, for years to come, but if things keep going like this, with Intel releasing competitive products and AMD continuing to innovate with that 3D V-Cache and the 5800X3D, I wonder what sort of monstrous CPU I'll upgrade to in 5 years time when I plan a whole new build.
@DaKrawnik420 I'm praising the 3D V-cache itself, an actual innovation. I've yet to see Intel bring anything groundbreaking like that. I'm not the only one praising it either, see literally every other tech channel. Now I know why I took a break from the tech world, smartasses everywhere.
would love to see regardless these 4K benchmarks, as I only game in 4K. If fps will be the same all across the board in 4K then it means I don't need to swap 9900k like forever now
Great review as always. Just wondering if there is a reason for the Intel Core i7-12700KF being better than the non F version. Better silicon lottery for the F versions ? What I'm missing out ? Thank you :)
Most likely they have a different max all core turbo frequency but for some reason he didn't test or list the maximum frequencies in the video even though that's really important information.
@@MikaelKKarlsson You could wait for the bracket or wait until you find a cooler that's compatible out of the box. Either way you're waiting for something.
In your Dec. 28 Q&A you discussed why you benchmark with resizable bar disabled, but would be revisiting it's effects in 2022. But here you enabled for testing. Reason why?
We polled viewer feedback from Hardware Unboxed Members as well as general viewers and both polls heavily favoured testing with ReBAR enabled. At this point we're going to update CPU testing with ReBAR enabled as it's a platform feature, but test GPUs with it disabled as most platforms still in use don't support the feature, or don't do so very well.
Intels 10th gen series came out in 2020 as did ryzen 7 5800x. It was matced against intels 10th series. Than to intels 11th gen series. And now to intels 12gen series. I would say Ryzen and AMD keep up pretty darn good to have 1 serie compete with 3 gens from Intel. Can't wait for next gen Ryzen. 😊
@@seklinkin9560 proves you know shit... it came out in 2019 and you use user bench haha you check things before you comment 10th gen was to rival ryzen 3000 not ryzen 5000.
Hi, Nice review. I am trying to understand why the CPU package power at the 65-watt setting it is 64 watts using at a minimum and at the default setting it use a minimum of 16 watts.
I bought my 5800x more than 12 months ago so I guess there's that over Alder Lake... Also if your 5800x is drawing more than 90w on all core 4.6ghz you are doing it wrong, the 5800x has incorrect out of the box PPT, TDC, EDC settings.
@@mryellow6918 you have to lower PPT, TDC and EDC a bit otherwise the cpu runs super hot out of the box and you actually loose performance. I lowered mine a bit and actually my benchmarks are considerably higher than most reviewers for single core and multicore.
@@IsaandAli Yep all chips can do it, reviewers never use it. They usually use the out of the box settings for PPT, TDC and EDC. In the 5800x case, they are way too high, like 5900x high. Actually come to think of it most reviewers overlook this issue entirely. You're wasting energy for 4 cores that arent there with default settings.
I'm using the i7-12700f with the Asus B660i-ITX. I can't seem to change the power limit (would like to lower the power limit for better thermal), the options are all set to "Auto" and greyed out so I can't change it. Is it because the B660 mobos don't support tweaking the power limit of CPU?
Just buy a 12700f, its only $314 and you get 8+4. So basically the best gaming performance while having great multithreaded. At $314 its extremely cheap for the performance.
I thought there is no AVX on 12th gen when E-cores are on, so score might be a demonstration of that? Heard Intel will force motherboard vendors to remove the AVX support altogether in future BIOS updates...
That's AVX-512. Blender also runs on AVX-2 (which is supported by both P and E cores), so I'm assuming Tim was referring to that instead when he mentions AVX
I'm excited to start seeing some next-gen-exclusive PS5/XSX games start getting ported to PC. Will be really interesting to see how they perform when they've been designed from the ground-up for modern, high core-count CPUs!
Thanks for being so quick with this info! In my opinion, this is the area where Intel has always been strongest. The chips that get zero hype, nobody talks about yet perform nearly identical to the fancy big bros. I've always been a big fan of the non-K chips as they are priced well, go on sale often, and now with memory overclocking on the more basic motherboard chipsets, you give up almost nothing going with a B-series board and non-K chip. Glad to see them holding onto this position again after the disaster that was 11th gen. Only thing that even kinda saved the midrange there was Ryzen pricing held. I look forward to seeing how the 12600 and 12400 stack up!
So base clock of non-K intel CPUs are in range of 2 GHz and for K it's in 3 GHz range. While boost clock is almost same ,generally at a 100 mhz difference at around 5GHz. In benchmarks both K and non K CPUs perform very close. What does the base clock signifies? I mean what's the benifit/con of lower base clock? Why non K CPUs have much lower base clock than their K counterparts I tried finding good answer on this but didn't found a perfect answer anywhere, see if you know anything about this I wanted a 12700 non K with b660 but base clocks are really low
@@Sage_Lucas I thought 12700 will be lot slower than 12700k in everyday tasks as base clock is low. You know what I'm saving around 200$ by choosing 12700 with good b660 than 12700k with decent z690 because of taxes. So it's a good deal right?
@@Sage_Lucas I'm getting Corsair 4000D airflow or fractal design mesify C dark. Both are cases with good airflow. TBH even if I get 12700k with z690 I won't overclock. Probably some MHz which will give 3-4 percent improvement with much worse thermals, so I'd like to save money instead
As someone who owns b450+r5 2600 and who is looking to upgrade I don't see how I could justify buying any of the Ryzen parts over 12600 or 12700. Simply they are too expensive at the moment... 5600x , as good as it is , Its not worth 300$ even if you own am4 platform. 12600/12700 (k) are much better deal with b660 boards coming to market.
@@andersjjensen as Celi already said, we don’t know the price yet. Looking at current amd’s offerings it wont be cheap or worth price premium over something like 12700.
So AMD has only one move here: lower the prices. I guess the margins they been having will be lower and will damage their stock price. Is this the real reason AMD still didn't lowered their prices?
i still see people looking to make mid-range builds with a 5600x because "amd is better now" instead of going for a 11400f amd will ride that wave as long as they can because they know those things take time to change
AMD is making record profits compared to ~ the last decade, so I don't think their stock price is in any danger - even if they lowered prices a little. The "real reason" why they haven't done so is because those things are still selling like hot cakes. Lowering prices wouldn't get them anything. They wouldn't sell any more, because they can't make any more.
Because they're annoying. I just bought a 5800x like 2 months ago at $395, for them to drop it down to $299 at Micro Center's and $350 online a month later. AMD was great when I got my 2700x, but they're quickly gaining all the hate I used to have for Intel on to them. Soon enough I will be buying Intel CPU's and motherboard's and forgetting about AMD if they don't get their act together with their cpu prices again.
Thanks for a really helpful review of an impressive CPU. Unfortunately, availability in Australia doesn't look too great. PCCG are the only place I've found that have the non F version listed (at AUD 589, which is AUD60-80 cheaper than the 12700K), and even then it's with an ETA of the end of February. Seems like Intel/ Retailers have prioritised the i5 chips instead. Such a shame, because it seems perfect for my use case: an air cooled SFF build. I just wish there were some decent ITX boards to go along with these whopper processors. I know it's not usually what the channel covers, but I do think it's worth mentioning because of how solid these 65W chips look and how disappointing the ITX mobos have been in comparison to the excellent ATX boards you've tested.
@@RUclipsTookMyNickname.WhyNot Yeah, really weird decisions. The 65W 12700F seems easy enough to find for around AUD580 and the unlocked K/KF have gone on sale a few times already. Ryzen 5000's prices didn't drop anywhere near what I was expecting them to over November/December sales. Was planning a 5800x or 5900x build but it just doesn't make sense at the prices they are given the age of the platform.
Intel has become competitive again and this is good news. The 12400 will be the obvious choice against the 5600x. The 5800X3D will have to defend amd until zen4 launches. If gpu prices were normal it would be a great year to upgrade my ryzen 1700+gtx1070.
1070 is a decent card, so you can start with cpu upgrade first. also ppl sell 1070 for around 530$ here. you can find 3060 for around 1000$ atm, its a bit too much imo, but still better compared to when you have nothing to sell. if you would buy 6600xt it will cost you not more than 800$ but you'll have almost twice performance boost, not a bad deal at all imo
@@mirage8753 I guess I’m lucky I bought my 3080 for $750 when it first came out. The way things are looking I might end up keeping it for many years unless crypto crashes.
Great job!. I can't tell you how much I REALLY appreciate the multi-thread benchmarks. Looking at the Cinebench results AMD may find themselves playing catch-up since all they have announced so far is the 5800X3D for the first 1/2 of 2022 which serves no purpose other than to edge out intel in AAA gaming. That said it would have been nice to see a 5950x result in the charts but if memory serves it was on par with the 12900k(and still about double the price of the 12700k)
Great review and comparison. I have a prebuilt and going to transfer to a fresh build...so many options now, cheaper high end 11th gen, 12th gen out...tempted to the 12900k, but a max power 12700 is all you'd ever need for gaming. Even Ryzen is looking good value!
I have the 12700K and it has been very impressive, the 12700 is near enough the same CPU with just some limits which the motherboards like the B series will allow you to unlock in terms of power. Coupled to a B series motherboard and some DDR4 you will have a great gaming PC though to be honest if gaming is the sole focus, the 12400 might be the superstar....12400 is sub $200 plus a $150 for the B series motherboard and some DDR4 ram, you have a sub $500 gaming setup for years to come.. As to 11th gen, do not buy unless as you will be locked to a platform that is now dead.. With 12th gen you at least have an upgrade path to Raptor Lake, PCIe Gen 5 etc...
So base clock of non-K intel CPUs are in range of 2 GHz and for K it's in 3 GHz range. While boost clock is almost same ,generally at a 100 mhz difference at around 5GHz. In benchmarks both K and non K CPUs perform very close. What does the base clock signifies? I mean what's the benifit/con of lower base clock? Why non K CPUs have much lower base clock than their K counterparts I tried finding good answer on this but didn't found a perfect answer anywhere, see if you know.
@@Jimster481 so if I choosed to buy a forever boosting b660 motherboard and 12700 then base clock shouldn't be a reason to worry? I'm saving 150$ approx by not getting 12700k with budget x690
I just noticed in this video the 12700kf premiere pro numbers are considerably lower than the video before and after this. Just wondering if something got misslabled. Its down by arround 100 points. Thanks for all te deatled benchmarking you do.
After watching this, I went ahead with 12700F + used 1050Ti (INR 37000) and ended up basically at same price for a 12700K (INR 38500) with a huge graphics boost in comparison and beats 12600K (INR 31500) too. OC is really out of question when you are already close to 5.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
You should really color the AMD bars orange or light orange for more clarity. I'm surprised your eyes are not getting tired to see all blue all the time. Just a friendly advice!
I agree!
i love blue
Agreed
:D good to see review before the CPU was announced.
intel itself forgot about their launch of new chipsets on ces. not a surprise only msi responded and provided new mobo for tests. good move for them
Intels marketing is so bad, I cant imagine what was going on in their heads. If only they had shown benchmarks, 12100 vs 3300x for example, they would be so dominant. Is it so bad to rule the sub 600 dollar market? Instead we got a hyper OCed 12900ks which is just beyond stupid. No one wants a hotter 12900k.
@@Superiorer Oh, absolutely. Intel’s presenters are so bafflingly incompetent. All it takes is one look at their product lineup and a few brain cells to realize that Intel is now the clearly best option for anyone who doesn’t need a 5950X, and even for the people who do, the 12900 and 12900K are making that particular $800 chip look increasingly overpriced.
The only part in the Intel presentation that I found interesting was the Arc Alchemist stuff, and it was way too short too. They should've given us more details.
@@Superiorer I don't understand your complains. Intel is bad for launching 4 Cores CPUs, selling 6 Cores CPUs for less than 200 USD or not announcing that they sell those chips? Have fun with 3D cache from 5800x3D I can predict AMD not launching 4 or 6 Cores of those versions of CPUs just like there are not 5300 version.
@@neoperol He's not complaining about them doing it, he's critiquing their lack of sharing about them. I'd add that it seems the cutdown chipset to get is the H170, not the b660, but wonder if most board makers will avoid it due to lack of consumer awareness.
Ah finally! "hover on box" provides the finest hardware reviews.
The 12700 at 65W like the 3700X looks pretty darn great.
3700x is shit u lost 40 or 50 fps cause the cpu so slow if u have anything better then a rx 470
Harvard unboxed
65w 12700 still beat all amd cpu in gaming. and multicore performance stil great(close to 12600k)
Yup the12700k on ddr4 b class is the only viable cpu from the 12th gen line up.( the 12900k is an out of touch dumpster fire) and its so refreshing to hear it called what it is "the best option for highend gaming" fuck buying a 1500$ CPU RAM and MoBo for gaming.
@@bogodoyandex9654 uh ye, only that 5800x and 5900x sit above it in the chart, did we watch the same video?
I was thinking of a 12600k, but the i7-12700 is looking very nice because I don't overclock. Nice video!
I would also consider the 12700F coupled with a B660F from Asus you can OC through BCLK, the first tests show that with a decent cooling @5.1GHz all Pcores 1.35v, highest cores temp reach the 80ish degree on cbr23, this CPU is blowing the price/performance ratio!
Same here! I was also looking at the 12400, 5600x and 5800x, but now it think, it really could end up with the 12700! :)
@@genuran-7559 So i could oc a 12700F with bclk but not a 12700 ?
@@tobytoxd Yes you can OC both but only with an ECG mobo, if you need an IGPU then take a 12700 if not then save some bucks... DDR5 are expensive nowadays ;)
I was gonna do the same, but then they sold the 12600K for $250, and the 12700 as $400, so I skipped the 12700. But my Asus B660m tuf gaming plus seems to have the BCLK in bios so I might check what happens if i enable that :)
3 weeks ago I bought a 12700k from microcenter, 299$ US. It was a sale price and now its back at 369$. Watch those sale prices.
I did the same. I was only going to grab the 12600k but for that price, I couldn’t pass up the 12700k
Thats a nice buy i hade to buy mine for 450 euro but then i live in sweden .
@@mattiasnilsson3980 How to calculate Scandinavian prices: Convert Dollar price to Euro price as 1:1. Now add 25% VAT/GST.
the efficiency is actually pretty incredible, so much power in only 65w
@Garrus Vakarian And above 65W it absolutely crushes the 5800x, it beats the 5900x in some tests
@Garrus Vakarian You have a 12700K system yet you're waiting for AM5? What waiting? You have a 2 month old system. Also in all of these comments, you keep comparing the 5800X to the the 12700 when it's locked at 65W which isn't a fair comparison. But if we wanna play that game, the 12700 when locked at 65W has the same 10 game average FPS as the 5800X. Stop shilling for one company over another
@Garrus Vakarian If you don't want to look like you're a shill, then quit repeatedly pointing out a cherry picked stat like "it's 15% slower than the 5800X". The 12700 has a higher multi and single core score, better Photoshop and Chromium code compile score, almost the same Corona and Premiere score, and same gaming performance as the 5800X while locked at 65W. If the 12700 isn't efficient, then how bad is the 5800X?
@Garrus Vakarian My ass you're not shilling. Your comments desperately defending AMD's CPUs are all over the comment section...
On the other hand AMD didn't get close to AMD in gaming until Zen 2, 3 releases of Ryzen chips. Even then Intel still had an advantage, took them til Zen 3 to be mostly competitive in games. Ryzen was always good for multicore performance tho.. the early chips had issues with latency.
Thanks for all your work, based on your tests and others I just built a i7-12700 using the mag mortar b660m for a work station. Talk about an upgrade, going from a i5 4460 and 8gb ram, old hdd so old that it was IDE only, to this and 32gb ram and a m.2 4.0 drive. Just an after market fan cooler for me though, the toughair 510 seems to be doing a good enough job so far.
Whoa you are the upgrade winner of the year! Cool!
@@robl7532 Yeah, that's a massive upgrade.
i would like to see this directly compared to the 12600kf. would like to see how the extra cache does compared to the higher clocks, and whats better for the money.
That's what I was wondering too. They had all these tests, but the best cpu to price performance wasn't here which is really odd.
@@Gandalf721 that will be too expensive. As a Ryzen user, i can say that Alder lake looks good.
@@internetuser4689 yeah Ryzen 5800x3D will be 500$+.
It will be cheaper only if other Ryzen price begins to drop now, and it's not dropping.
In my country 5600x = 370$ and 12600kf = 325$.
Considering that the 12600kf is 5800x tier of a CPU and it costs 50$ less than 5600x it's a total steal combined with b660 motherboard.
@@damara2268 Why are using B660 motherboard with 12600K? I was also wondering what I am gonna lose if use unlocked processor with B660 Motherboard something like B660M Mortar or B660M Tuf or Aorus Pro ( I know it can't overclock and how much performance loss etc).
@@rasheedarif you can't overclock the CPU, that's all you lose.
Imo there's not really a point to overclock it because it already runs at 4.5ghz during all-core workload.
Yes you can maybe get to 5ghz for the 8% performance increase but the CPU will take about 30% more power and get hotter.
8% performance isn't worth 30% higher power draw I'd say.
Even at stock speeds it's like overclocked Ryzen 5800x.
If you want even higher performance you can go for i7 12700f, it's not much more expensive than 12600k and it has performance like a Ryzen9 5900x which costs 200$ more
2 years late, but I'm here because I've been running an R7 5800X, and recently acquired my grandpa's Dell XPS with an i7 12700 that he's been using to file taxes.
The pentium and Celeron seem like they'd benefit from having a few E cores. They'd add some extra grunt without much power.
Nothing was done at the Celery or Pentium level this time.
It takes time for architectures to dribble down to this level.
so, what is the value of e core on desktop? if they want to say that it is good for saving power, than put it on celeron/pentium/i3 processor as they build for basic computing. just let i7/i9 go with all p core
@@Jimster481 that exactly what i think. even in mobile product. intel always put their sku with 2 less pcores and then put 8/6 e cores. next, look at very low base clock to claim such low tdp. the 15w rated tdp only have 1.1 ghz at e cores and 1.6-1.8 ghz at p cores. then they can boost to 55w 😂. if you put e cores to save powers, then why they need a boost clock? also they put more e cores than p cores in mobile series 😂.
E cores are definitely not useless otherwise intel won't be beating amd in all core workloads.
you guys released the 12700 review before anyone else! Loved the new box cooler and B660 deep dive too. For those on a budget its nice to see Intel match or do better than a Wraith Stealth AMD cooler.
Confirmation of the price: $339, or $314 for the F model. (1000-unit pricing, as always.)
This thing genuinely might be the best 12th-gen CPU, and is almost certainly a stone-cold 5900X killer. Good job, Intel.
Yeah, I am surprised AMD hasn't lowered prices yet. Let's put 12700k pricing against 5900x, as the 12700 (non k) generally cannibalizes it's older brother. 5900x at like 425-450$ competes well with a 420$ 12700k. Makes me wonder if they are writing this year off, and keeping prices high until zen 4 comes out.
I just hope Intel works to make B660 widely available at reasonable prices. In recent years, it's their platform support that has been the issue.
@@richardwolfangel4724 Seems like an incredibly cynical move if AMD is doing so.
Honestly, I’m beginning to appreciate boring old Intel a lot more now that their products are good.
@@richardwolfangel4724 I’ll go a step further: I think the 12700 effectively cannibalizes the 12600K. 25% more multi-core performance for 25% more money doesn’t seem so good at first sight, but then you realize the 12600K -> 12700 swap is the *only* change you have to make to an existing 12600K system to unlock that extra performance. For an extra $50, that’s just a no-brainer.
@@richardwolfangel4724 AMD are still selling like hot cakes, there is no push for them to lower the prices, they have like 6-7 processors in the TOP10 seller list of most retailers. Intel 12xxx availability is pretty low at the moment and the lower chipsets are only now coming to the market, that's probably sustaining the AMD adoption rate, once Intel gets more product to the market AMD will likely lower prices, they might do it when they introduce the R7 5800X3D, since they will probably want to stay in the same price segment with that chip, while lowering the 5800X and 5600X, there's no need for them to lower their 12 and 16 cores, as they are unique on the market for those who need a lot of cores, Intel offers nothing in that space, not talking about performance, but just number of the same core you can divide and conquer however you like for your needs.
I wish you also compare it to the i5 12600K as well. I'm thinking of getting one for Davinci Resolve but I'm not sure if I should get the i5 12600K or the i7 12700(non-K).
i5 12600K is close to R9 5900X.
12700 is definitely lot faster
And AMDs answer is
To increase the price of the 5800x from 350 to 430... Great 😭
They currently have huge demand for milan X server CPUs which uses same zen 3 chiplets. That's why 5800X3D launching a bit late as well. Don't expect AMD prices to get much better.
and triple the cache
Honestly I love the inclusion of Factorio glad to see one outlet including this game. Its always hard to find sensible info for cpu options on it
Thank you for all the great content that you keep releasing! Cheers from Canada
Very good results! One hack with the stock coolers to drastically reduce temperatures is to separate the incoming and outgoing air. I cut a circle in the side of a small cardboard box and placed it over my R5 1600AF stock cooler to draw air from the front of my case and it dropped temps by ~7C. I had to tape a paper ring into the cooler to get it to sit straight, but you could probably use a paper bag or something more flexible and not worry about it.
This is in a case with 3 filtered front intake fans and an RX580.
Oh wow that's genius and just like how you'd put car intake's within an enclosed box to let it get fresh air from the outside and not soak in warm air from around the engines, I wonder if this is going to be a thing in the future with coolers
@@Wakabatan it kind of already works that way with tower coolers. I think it'd be a bit expensive to make something good looking while working for thin cases which is where stock coolers are often used. You'd have to have some boxed duct that can fit over memory, etc.
What I did on my fx8350 back in the day was turn the fan around and duct it to the hole in the side of my case. It did lower temps a bit, but that cooler was so noisy anyway I quickly got an AM3 tower cooler.
I'd love to see a photo of this set up if you have it posted anywhere?! 💯
@@LU-gf8jz It seems RUclips is very resistant to putting links into comments. If you're really interested, I put a link to a Google Photos album in my about page. Not the best photos, but it shows both ideas.
Bloody hell, $170 for a board decent enough to run the cpu at stock speeds! That makes no sense. It's becoming increasingly pointless to buy a board with future upgrades in mind.
Yep.
Well, at least it's no way near as bad on AMD. A average $90-$120 B450 motherboard will power a 5950X within 3% of it's "regular" performance just fine.
That's just 1 example from 1 board manufacturer, we'll have to see what the others come out with.
It's Intel there is never a great upgrade path... they only want to sell you another whole platform everytime.
Intel is greedy, but honestly, AMD is just smaller and still has to fight for the market way more. They do very greedy moves themselves whenever they can. I don't think their next socket will last as long. Besides, the best products are just a mistake. Everyone who remembers P2 era remembers the Celeron 300A with ridiculous overclockung potential and pretty much the same ipc as P2. Also, there was a dual socket Abit board (BP6 if memory serves) that could run Celerons and overclock them. Neither existed because Intel exactly wanted them to exist, but they were incredible value. Then in P4 era, Athlon64x2 was a serious threat, better then the Pentium D. Intel first had lowered their prices (they had to in order to stay competitive), and then they came out with the Core2 chips - I had my Q6600 for 6 years, the longest I had a machine. Pretty sure that wasn't their plan, market situation helped, but still, it was a brilliant value Intel.
@@warrenskeen9203 sometimes I get a decent board and a cheap cpu, so in the future I could upgrade to the more powerful one. For example, if you get an i3, you can still upgrade to an i9 at least in the same, if not the next generation. More realistically, you'll get an i7. I'm OK with actually spending a bit more for the motherboard to be able to do this. I'm not OK with spending so much more that it will be cheaper to do an entire platform swap in the future.
Low end CPUs seem like an ideal market for having 2 E-cores. I hope they have them on the i5 and i3 for the 13th Gen.
Nah get that away from my budget, I'd prefer extra P-cores.
@@changthunderwang1294 That's exactly what I said...
@@Trifler500 Sorry, corrected. "I'd prefer extra P-cores."
Ah. Not for me then. An office computer, media server, or other low computing power PC will get a lot out of having one or two E-cores, and it'll make them more efficient.
@@Jimster481 Yeah, I agree. That's why I originally said 2 E-cores, but if for some reason they could only do one then I would take that.
Thank you for including Factorio! Particularly helpful.
In December i purchased 5800x and its really powerful . No need to worry about power consumption . I am happy .
For those looking for the extreme low-end, the 10105 is pretty sick as well.
Yep, i3-10105f is cheaper than i3-10100 and lil better. Running i3-10105f with 1060 6gb and 16gb 3200mhz, playing BF2042 60~80fps. (1080p)
12100 and 12300 on the run
@@Spido68_the_spectator I'm excited for those. Intel seems to be owning the low end game right now, considering I can't find Ryzen 3-5000 series anywhere.
@@Dedzigs I mention the 10105 Non-F mainly because that way you still get a decent iGPU/APU.
@@thetalesofdaneandco Ryzen 3 stopped at 3300X. And it's being phased out of production
We're also going to need to know the motherboards that allow max turbo all the time 😁 No sense in wasting free performance! This board will definitely be on my list.
You can configure ppt values yourself on almost any board. What you actually need is a capable vrm for the cpu you want
@@ivanbrasla That is what I would like to know.
If you go to advanced power settings and set minimum to 90 or 95%, all cores will run most of the time, but since that's happening you may not see turbo boost
Cool looks good overall, though I have concerns that B660 might be another generation where it's like navigating a mine field.
Basically avoid asrock altogether and it shouldn't be to bad
@@rawdez_ unless we are talking about AM4 motherboards for some reason - low end kind of works exactly as advertised with less features but strong enough vrms to run the chips even 5950x can be run with cheap 100$ motherboards decently
@@rawdez_ it's mostly about getting what they advertised and I think it's a pretty nice coincidence than anything amd planned as vrms are made by the board partners.
Or it maybe because am4 CPUs strictly stick to their power envelope than new intel ones - setting a good power limit is very important for sustained performance as you can prevent excessive temperatures from building up earlier on a workload.
@@rawdez_ I personally have a sub 100$ b550 giagbyte motherboard (ds3h) - no vrm mosfets on the back of the motherboard as far as I can see with my eyes but well that's anecdotal and neither here nor there.
Still they are all capable of driving the 65W parts without much of a hitch as far as I can tell it's 100W that's going to be an issue - And I can attest to mine running a 5900x without too much issue (the temps sky rocket of course)
I wouldn't really liken watching some benchmarking videos to navigating a minefield. It is extremely easy nowadays to buy good products because there are these RUclips channels that do all the testing work for the consumers. Literally all you have to do is look at a video and remove the bad motherboards from your list of options. Then just choose whichever fits your needs, and budget, from the ones that are left.
can't wait for your 5800X3D review :)
6 months away lol
@@Dr.WhetFarts How though? The 5800X3D is supposed to release in this spring.
Value ? Have to buy a new motherboard , cpu and possibly some new ddr5 ram vs can throw a 5800 in any am4 board with a bios update ?
Yeah... Picked up a 5800x on black friday for $300. I don't think there's any beating that, especially on a 5 year old chipset previously running a 2700x.
Still happy with it?
@@maccagrabme uhh... Yeah. Sure. If I had the opportunity to upgrade I'm not sure what I'd even get.
Is that the new "unboxing" set you were speaking about some videos ago?
It looks very nice, but, as a feedback, I think you have to work a little bit on the lighting:
the desk and lower half of the screen look way brighter than the upper half of it, when your head in particular tends to blend with the background to the extent that your face seems to be floating around all by itself.
Thanks for your videos!
Great video. I have to admit I haven’t watch too much Intel content as I have recently built a PC and therefore will be skipping at least one generation. However I’m really impressed with the 12th gens 1% lows they look to be a more impressive gain over the Zen 3 processors than the overall frame rate. It would be good to see the 1440p data at some point even if only an average as it will help to show when the best time to upgrade will be. If there is little difference between a 12700 and a 5800x at 1440p then nothing to worry about yet, so to speak.
how would Resolution affect Low fps? Resolution should only affect GPU related low fps, the fps you see here is the max low fps limited by CPU.
@@PrinceVinc cpu can effect 1% lows meaning it can be a factor. So you see in t multiple reviews that the 1% lows are improved with the 12900k. This is probably down to the efficiency cores dealing with background processes so all the performance cores can be dedicated to dealing with the data from the gpu. Some reviewers would also argue the frame timing is more consistent as well. This is why although most games don’t need more than 8 cores, frame timings and 1% lows can be better with a 12 core cpu for example.
@@curtismariani6303 but again thats CPU and not resolution related, which is GPU.
@@PrinceVinc ah I see, the CPU’s can be bottlenecked at lower resolutions as they are having to process more frames from the gpu. At 1440p cpu aren’t having to process as many frames so if there is little difference in fps between the CPUs then no need to replace for a while.
@@curtismariani6303 exactly. That's how it should work.
So celeron is 2C/2T true dual core. Cool bro , i hope it can handle W11 and MS PAINT/WORD . Sure it's not going to send rockets to space, but i would like to see benchmarks of that Pentium and Celeron, can they run crysis ? :D
of course it can run Crysis, Crysis is, first of all, poorly threaded so even if you have many cores it doesn't use most of them and then it's a game made in a time when 4 cores were the top dog. You don't need much processing power to just run an operating system and use the browser or Word. 4-8 Cores is gaming territory and anything above that is work station stuff.
Was hoping for it to be 2c /4t but ... let's hope for 13th gen to finally ditch 2 threads
When asking about a Celery, the question is if it is snappy enough and capable of basic tasks like 4K playback.
Is the iGPU adequate??
Are the lanes and ports gimped?
Is this a 60fps gaming experience (with a GPU that exceeds the CPU speed)?
@@peterpan408 yes and no. Get a pentium, it has 4 threads which is bare minimum for any kind of confort and, as you want, 4k playback without lags and stutters.
And as for gamming - Celerons can't game yet.
The iGPU at that level is far from great, but it can handle videos and stuff well.
Alder Lake cooling test using known AIOs that are compatible with Alder Lake maybe using only the stand off retro fit kits and the actual 1700 pin mounting brackets and comparing would be fantastic!
Thanks for vid, just bought the 12700ks .. im super happy! good video
To see a 65-watt Intel CPU that’s (allegedly) cheaper than the 5800X and perform just as well is great! It’ll be an exciting year as next-gen Ryzen gets released. I want to upgrade so bad but also don’t know how long it’ll take for next-gen to come out
@Garrus Vakarian Thats the worst case scenario and not many people use blender daily. In most cases the 12700 is beating or on par with the 5900x, a much more expensive CPU.
@Garrus Vakarian the two competing companies didn’t release their highest-end processors at the same time recently with the previous generation and this generation being very far apart. However, you can only compare what you have with what’s out. That’s why whenever Intel releases something “later” than AMD, you can’t just stop comparisons between the two companies for months. 12th-gen Intel has been out for months now; this is just a lower-binned processor launch after their main launch - just like what all the major chip companies (AMD, Nvidia, etc.) do. AMD didn’t release a refresh in 2021, so reviewers had no choice but to compare Intel’s 2021 processors with AMD’s 2020 processors.
Raptor Lake and Zen4 will both launch (allegedly) Q3/Q4 this year, so that will be more of an apples-to-apples comparison.
Although the 5800X did much better than the 65-watt 12700 in Blender, that’s cherry-picking data. Not only was the 5800X’s system consumption vastly greater in that one benchmark, but the 12700 either matched or bested the 5800X in all other CPU benchmarks besides one where it lost in a very minor sense. However, that’s with taking a bat to the kneecaps of the 12700 and power-limiting it. If the motherboard doesn’t allow the processor to suck down more than 65 watts of power, Intel XTU allows you to choose the wattage you want your processor to run at (you can choose 95W, 100W, 200W, etc.).
The question is always what is the best now. In a couple months, that could be Ryzen 3D. For now, it’s Intel hands-down.
Price is also a big question. The 12700’s MSRP is 15% lower than the 5800X’s. So, that has to be factored in, too.
In conclusion, no one should Stan a company. No company - not even AMD - is looking out for your best interests. They may advertise and present things that pull people’s emotional heartstrings, but in the end, they want money. Right now, to get money, both them and Intel have to pull out more stops than ever before which is great! Let’s just hope that each generation roughly matches each other between the two, because there is no doubt that in the face of no competition, the improvements we’ve been accustomed to will disappear. We will go back to a tick-tock leap in performance per year. No company wants to sink tons of money into R&D if they don’t need to - neither Intel nor AMD.
Edited for grammar since I’m on mobile
@Garrus Vakarian you have to be trolling at this point man, that was literally one bench and you're ignoring the rest of the video
@@Jas7520 he's a shill
@Garrus Vakarian yeah and blender uses avx 512 smartass.I've seen you in many comment reply sections on this video maybe stop shit talking and talk about the actual stuff that was mentioned in the video.In most cases the 12700 beats up a 5800x at 65w and absolutely crushes the 5900x in most tests when power limits are removed while consuming the same amount of power.
Intel should really have included box cooler for all of their CPU, especially this generation. I am trying to build an Intel Aelder Lake system and find cooler to be a pain in the butt to find, my options are limited to either go AIO or wait two weeks (who know, maybe more) for the Aelder Lake adapter bracket to arrive.
Even for the K series, it would be nice if I can at least and verified that my components is working within 7 days so that I can RMA with the retailer.
It's so weird that the 12400 has no E cores, but the 12700 is the exact same configuration as the K version, just with reduced clocks.
If the 12400 had E cores at $180, why would anyone buy the 12600K then? That would make the 12600K unsellable.
Thank you for discussing the box cooler. I'm getting a 12700 and the same mobo with 3600mhz C16 RAM sticks. I'm not an overclocker and I'll stick to 65w for the moment
Wow, finally Intel competes in performance and value again.
A very good start for 2022.
It's a roller coaster of emotions. AMD overtook Intel and then Intel beating AMD in the best value category. The end is nigh.
If by competes you mean basically destroys, then yeah
@DaKrawnik420 They had 1600, 2600 and 3600, so it was reasonable to expect a 5600 non-X. But I can think of several reasons to why we havent seen a non-X yet. Yields? Why sell a non-X if it can be sold as an X for more profit? Silicone shortage?
These look like genuine Zen 3 killers all the way down. I’ll be recommending Intel until Zen 4 drops.
@@reinhardtwilhelm5415 my ps5 beats xbox360 too, I'll be recommending it till ps6
I was having drops in kill zone rpcs3 10k resolution with my 12400, and my fps would drop to 40s and back to 60. With my 12700, I hardly get any drops using the same resolution. Timespliters dolphin 8k I got drops using 12400. I no longer get those using the 12700. LFD2 would give me drops to the 60s from 120fps using multiple graphic mods using a 3080 RTX/12400. I no longer get those big drops with the 12700. This card is a monster. I didn't expect it to stabilize my FPs so much, but I was hoping it did.
I'm surprised you didn't leave the 12600k in the mix because I believe this is one of the CPUs people would compare against to determine if they want to move up a tier especially if they already purchased one like I have. The 12700 looks worth the extra $30 expected price difference given that there is a significant 12% or more performance increase. Might be something I look into as an upgrade if the 12600k can keep it's value in the used market.
@Garrus Vakarian Yes if you overclock, but while is stock form the 12700 performs better.
@Garrus Vakarian Z690 boards are damn expensive if you get the 12600k tough hard decision to make
@Garrus Vakarian Honestly, 5.2 is a laughable OC for my money. Don't get me wrong, I've been OC-ing all my CPU's since like P166MMX and I understand the appeal perfectly well. Hell, I used to buy only the most overclockable CPU's on the market, otherwise I wasn't interested. But this time I feel like it's not worth it in terms of gains vs losses, all things considered. It's like what, ~9% overclock against stock numbers? Pathetic tbh. Compare that to the glorious CPU's of the past like Q6600, i5-2500k etc. where you could get +30-40% OC on air easily and even + 50% if you were really lucky and/or determined.
@Garrus Vakarian But i7-12700k runs at 4900 MHz all (P) cores if power limits are disabled and you have a good cooler. And I assume most mb's allow to disable power limits even for non-K versions. So it's really 4,9 -> 5,2 OC. Though i might be wrong. I need to look this sh*t up tbh.
@Garrus Vakarian Well, according to intel's website 12700k has P-cores' Max Turbo Frequency of 4.9 GHz. (And 12700 non-K - 4.8GHz) Idk, but my assumption is it should potentially hit those numbers on all P-cores, provided you have power limits disabled or lifted in the BIOS and a good enough CPU cooler (to avoid thermal throttling). But I might be wrong, modern CPU's auto boosting techs seem like a bit of a complicated mess.
Banger products, presented by a superb set of lads. Cheers guys!
Amazing review thank you so much!
Was going to upgrade my 9900k to 12400f for upcoming sffpc build but this might be a reasonable option.
Going from a 9900k to 12400f? I don't think that is an upgrade. Less cores & clock speed for newer architecture that doesn't overclock.
@@JamesSmith-sw3nk I'd be doing it to reduce heat while gaming
@@JamesSmith-sw3nk The 12400 will be significantly faster in gaming while using 70% less power.
@@__aceofspades Power usage is not really much of a consideration for most gaming rigs. I highly doubt the 12400 will be significantly faster (if at all) in most games compared to a overclocked 9900k.
I still have a i7 3770. That would be an upgrade. Not from a 9900k to 12400 / 12600. I only upgrade a cpu / gpu when the speed advantage is at least 2x
On the power consumption. Hot VRM could be the main reason. I would set the Fans RPM manually for such test but if the fans are on Auto they will speed up as well on higher temps. I didnt saw them but the lower CPU temps also improve efficiency. Not sure how much but certainly helps too. Im curious whats the difference in power usage of the coolers only. Were they on max or auto?
It's not the VRM. CPU transistors have more leakage at higher temps.
@@concinnus I said "lower temps also improve efficiency". Thats what I meant. But the difference is too big only for that IMO. The temp difference has to be much bigger if its only the power leakage.
@@n1kobg I can't find any new research, but on older nodes where leakage was less important, overall current still increased at ~2%/K, so it absolutely could be the predominant reason.
hmm, the 12100 will have twice the cache from 10100, this will be interesting :D
If Intel have improved the latest drivers on UHD 730, more of a bonus.
Intel didn’t say it because their marketing is garbage, but it looks like they’re gearing up to make this thing a budget gaming beast.
thank you for including the Chromium Code Compile - the programmer in me is building a new PC and those tests really mean the world to me
I think with i9 12900 will be the same situation (couple FPS less in games), but what about its price, dont know...
I was waiting for this review! I'm most interested in 12700 because I'm not planning on buying a GPU for my pc build, Steve and Tim aka hammer on box thank you
Just buy a Ryzen 6000 series laptop with RDNA2 iGPU and avoid UHD 770.
@@gurjindersingh3843 I'm done with laptops bro, I had a i5 3rd Gen intelhd4000m igpu for 8 years, it's about time to go pc now, also I'm going to get a GPU in the future when prices become normal so I don't really need a beast igpu, uhd 770 will suffice until then
@@veztundra "Prices become normal" That's a bold prediction.
@@gurjindersingh3843 yes it will come back to normal, I can wait for a whole year while studying coding and playing esports title
@@veztundrawe've had insane prices for multiple years, a full 365 days may not change anything.
Great stuff Steve, but I just need to see 12700 vs 12600K comparison given that both should be selling at almost the same price
according to intel 12700 is $339 and 12700F is $314 for 1,000-unit purchase quantities.
Same price? Its 100-150 euros difference in my country.
@@John__K and 70 euros in mine
i have 1 year and 2 months with my ryzen 7 5800x, i don't need to change now
You also have to factor in the price of the LGA1700 motherboards.
3700x here
i would love to see ryzen 5 5600x and i5 12600 included in the comparision plz
Why not 12600KF since it costs the same. Spoiler alert; 12600KF wins with ease.
@@Dr.WhetFarts I think the cost of upgrading to 5800x system or 12600KF is the same because the cheaper option on motherboards
This video ultimately ended up selling me a new cpu upgrade from a 3700X. i love this thing. dropped into a DDR4 board, 65W mode engaged. It's still very fast. And interestingly I turned PL2 down from the stock 180W to 100W. I wonder if this is just a flat out gain in efficiency, because peak power draw went from 148W to 100W with hardly any further impact. In fact some benchmarks scored like 1% better. Value to performance is great on this one
This CPU at 65 watts is still quite impressive, I wonder what a 95 watt cap would do.
I have my doubts about VRM efficiency changes accounting for the power usage going up when thermally limited in Blender, especially absent any presented data about those VRM thermals.
There are some other possibilities:
(1) The CPU cores may be in a "busy" state for slightly longer (in wall time) while processing the load, because their clock rate has diminished.
(2) In a thermally throttled state, it's also likely that the CPU is operating at it's highest voltage level, despite slightly lower clock speeds, since it's trying to boost as far as possible, whereas a CPU with thermal headroom will enter a lower power state before reducing clock speed.
(3) System fans may be pulling additional power (since you are reporting total system power) when the CPU temperature is higher. If you did not set static speeds for all fans across test configurations, this is actually my best guess, as 14W usage wouldn't be far off from 3-4 fans spinning up.
If these conditions are true, then you wouldn't see power usage go down if you were somehow able to add some cooling to the VRM while keeping the CPU overheated.
You and Steve are both overthinking it. CPU transistors have more leakage current at higher temps. This matters far more than any MOSFET efficiency change, and the 3 fans+pump of the AIO surely use as much power as the stock cooler fan.
which mid budget motherboard do you suggest for i7-12700 that does not limit its power levels
I love this video, my 10900f with a Mortar B460 was choosed by recomendation of a previous video from you, now I´ve seen the benchs with the 12700 can say no need to upgrade in some time till the difference in performance goes even more significant for my workflow.
Thanks for the useful information.
Welcome to PC, you don’t need to upgrade every year.
Great video as always! Thank you so much for all your decent work!!!
Wonder how a 12900 with power limits removed will perform...
that chip would be so fucking hot
@@chollings2143 only under 100% load though with a shit cooler i guess
hI , can you make the same kind of video only testing the 12900?
Not having to replace my motherboard to upgrade from the 2600 makes the choice an easy one.
Tons of 300 boards can't use 5000 series cpu's, never got the firmware to support it because lack of ROM size lol
@@Dr.WhetFarts if he has a 2600 then he likely doesnt have a b350 and instead has a b450 so i have no idea what the point of your comment is.
@@zzzZniitemareZzzz he expressed his state which completely valid and when zen4 launches it will require a new board and that is fine too
@@Dr.WhetFarts and the ones that did changed the bios to 90s text based one haha 😂
Thanks for the review. Nice to see a box cooler included - reducing costs. That said, in NZ you can buy a budget AM4 MB from $100 which should pair up with a new CPU in '3Dx' months time. Upgrading my Zen 2 to Zen 3 is way more cheaper than buying an all new Intel setup - if it wasn't good enough already...
@@tilapiadave3234 Only old ones - the keyboards are tricky because they are upside down due to the hemisphere.
As an itx builder, I am actually much more interested in RM1 cooler, rather than the cpus. The cooler is very impressive given the 47mm height, it performs almost the same as axp90. If I haven't bought axp90 already, I'd rather buy a 12700, not a 12700k, just for the cooler.
That and for itx use, 12700 can run at 65watts and still gives you 99% of the single thread performance and about 75-80% multicore.
1:35 you said for the i7 the p core is only 100mhz lower but that charge says 200mhz
This is why competition is good. My 5900X needs no upgrades, especially at my 1440p res, for years to come, but if things keep going like this, with Intel releasing competitive products and AMD continuing to innovate with that 3D V-Cache and the 5800X3D, I wonder what sort of monstrous CPU I'll upgrade to in 5 years time when I plan a whole new build.
@DaKrawnik420 I'm praising the 3D V-cache itself, an actual innovation. I've yet to see Intel bring anything groundbreaking like that. I'm not the only one praising it either, see literally every other tech channel.
Now I know why I took a break from the tech world, smartasses everywhere.
would love to see regardless these 4K benchmarks, as I only game in 4K. If fps will be the same all across the board in 4K then it means I don't need to swap 9900k like forever now
Great review as always.
Just wondering if there is a reason for the Intel Core i7-12700KF being better than the non F version.
Better silicon lottery for the F versions ?
What I'm missing out ?
Thank you :)
Most likely they have a different max all core turbo frequency but for some reason he didn't test or list the maximum frequencies in the video even though that's really important information.
probably price but I suggest get the non F version if possible
it allow u to have additional Video out outside the video card
It's just damn hard to find retail CPU coolers for the socket.
Most cooler companies will send you an lga 1700 bracket.
@@BuzzKiller23 ohh how nice just wait two weeks to build, haw haw.
@@MikaelKKarlsson You could wait for the bracket or wait until you find a cooler that's compatible out of the box. Either way you're waiting for something.
65w performance is actually impressive, that's what I would run
Why haha. Is electricity that expensive
In your Dec. 28 Q&A you discussed why you benchmark with resizable bar disabled, but would be revisiting it's effects in 2022. But here you enabled for testing. Reason why?
We polled viewer feedback from Hardware Unboxed Members as well as general viewers and both polls heavily favoured testing with ReBAR enabled. At this point we're going to update CPU testing with ReBAR enabled as it's a platform feature, but test GPUs with it disabled as most platforms still in use don't support the feature, or don't do so very well.
Intels 10th gen series came out in 2020 as did ryzen 7 5800x.
It was matced against intels 10th series.
Than to intels 11th gen series.
And now to intels 12gen series.
I would say Ryzen and AMD keep up pretty darn good to have 1 serie compete with 3 gens from Intel.
Can't wait for next gen Ryzen. 😊
exactly and when this summer comes its game over for intel.
Didn't 10th gen come out with ryzeb 3000? Lol
@@TheBURBAN111 according to user Bench, Intel 10th gen came out in Q2 , 2020. Maybe check things before you comment.
@@seklinkin9560 proves you know shit... it came out in 2019 and you use user bench haha you check things before you comment 10th gen was to rival ryzen 3000 not ryzen 5000.
Hi, Nice review. I am trying to understand why the CPU package power at the 65-watt setting it is 64 watts using at a minimum and at the default setting it use a minimum of 16 watts.
Is the new Intel stock cooler noticeably quieter?
How does one get a 12700 at 65w? Motherboard settings? I don’t quite understand what he’s talking about PL1 or PL2. I just want lower power usage
I would go with 12700, as it is budget wise and performance wise, the most suited option for me.
@ 8:26 I got 23485 pts in R23 with my Ryzen 9 5900X
I bought my 5800x more than 12 months ago so I guess there's that over Alder Lake...
Also if your 5800x is drawing more than 90w on all core 4.6ghz you are doing it wrong, the 5800x has incorrect out of the box PPT, TDC, EDC settings.
Whys that wrong
@@mryellow6918 you have to lower PPT, TDC and EDC a bit otherwise the cpu runs super hot out of the box and you actually loose performance. I lowered mine a bit and actually my benchmarks are considerably higher than most reviewers for single core and multicore.
@@IsaandAli Yep all chips can do it, reviewers never use it. They usually use the out of the box settings for PPT, TDC and EDC. In the 5800x case, they are way too high, like 5900x high. Actually come to think of it most reviewers overlook this issue entirely. You're wasting energy for 4 cores that arent there with default settings.
what settings do you sugest for that 90w usage?
@@Skynet_11 jesus is that what the 5800x puts out stock?
How do you remove power limit? I mean how do you lock the CPU at 65W?? Is there any guide that someone can lead me to?
The thing that caught my interest is that new stock cooler.
I'm using the i7-12700f with the Asus B660i-ITX. I can't seem to change the power limit (would like to lower the power limit for better thermal), the options are all set to "Auto" and greyed out so I can't change it. Is it because the B660 mobos don't support tweaking the power limit of CPU?
12700 is in stock here in germany retailing 380-390€
Interested to see how the 12600 non-K does and how the value compares to 12400. Too bad there is no 8+0 option.
Just buy a 12700f, its only $314 and you get 8+4. So basically the best gaming performance while having great multithreaded. At $314 its extremely cheap for the performance.
@@killermoon635 Those are not the MSRP. Those are the 1000QTY tray price (as in, naked CPU with no cooler, not even in a box).
Its a real shame they dropped the memory channels to just 1 on the h610 chipset from 2 on the h510. Makes it less viable for budget gaming systems..
Its a typo, Intel ARK and other documentation have said its actually 2 channels
@@__aceofspades I hope that's actually the case
I thought there is no AVX on 12th gen when E-cores are on, so score might be a demonstration of that? Heard Intel will force motherboard vendors to remove the AVX support altogether in future BIOS updates...
That's AVX-512. Blender also runs on AVX-2 (which is supported by both P and E cores), so I'm assuming Tim was referring to that instead when he mentions AVX
@@MistahGamah youre right, my brain inserted that 512 into what I heard
If price is right this should be an amazing CPUs by just looking the 65w spec. Now let's wait and land the new5800x3d pricing accordingly .
I'm excited to start seeing some next-gen-exclusive PS5/XSX games start getting ported to PC. Will be really interesting to see how they perform when they've been designed from the ground-up for modern, high core-count CPUs!
Thanks for being so quick with this info! In my opinion, this is the area where Intel has always been strongest. The chips that get zero hype, nobody talks about yet perform nearly identical to the fancy big bros. I've always been a big fan of the non-K chips as they are priced well, go on sale often, and now with memory overclocking on the more basic motherboard chipsets, you give up almost nothing going with a B-series board and non-K chip. Glad to see them holding onto this position again after the disaster that was 11th gen. Only thing that even kinda saved the midrange there was Ryzen pricing held. I look forward to seeing how the 12600 and 12400 stack up!
So base clock of non-K intel CPUs are in range of 2 GHz and for K it's in 3 GHz range. While boost clock is almost same ,generally at a 100 mhz difference at around 5GHz. In benchmarks both K and non K CPUs perform very close.
What does the base clock signifies?
I mean what's the benifit/con of lower base clock? Why non K CPUs have much lower base clock than their K counterparts
I tried finding good answer on this but didn't found a perfect answer anywhere, see if you know anything about this
I wanted a 12700 non K with b660 but base clocks are really low
@@Sage_Lucas i mean if I pair 12700 with deepcool ak620, it's a air cooler equivalent to noctua NH-d15S so I shouldn't worry?
@@Sage_Lucas I thought 12700 will be lot slower than 12700k in everyday tasks as base clock is low.
You know what I'm saving around 200$ by choosing 12700 with good b660 than 12700k with decent z690 because of taxes. So it's a good deal right?
@@Sage_Lucas I'm getting Corsair 4000D airflow or fractal design mesify C dark. Both are cases with good airflow.
TBH even if I get 12700k with z690 I won't overclock. Probably some MHz which will give 3-4 percent improvement with much worse thermals, so I'd like to save money instead
very keen on upgrading from 3700x + x370 to 12700 + B660. Hope they release the price soon.
As someone who owns b450+r5 2600 and who is looking to upgrade I don't see how I could justify buying any of the Ryzen parts over 12600 or 12700. Simply they are too expensive at the moment... 5600x , as good as it is , Its not worth 300$ even if you own am4 platform. 12600/12700 (k) are much better deal with b660 boards coming to market.
Just wait and get the 5800X3D. Then you save the mobo for now.
@@andersjjensen yah, but ain't close to the price of these intels
How much will b660 cost? You get it for free after sucking poles? Then it's worth it
@@andersjjensen as Celi already said, we don’t know the price yet. Looking at current amd’s offerings it wont be cheap or worth price premium over something like 12700.
4:26 Is PCI-E RAID for RAIDing NVMI drives together? That would be tasty.
So AMD has only one move here: lower the prices. I guess the margins they been having will be lower and will damage their stock price.
Is this the real reason AMD still didn't lowered their prices?
i still see people looking to make mid-range builds with a 5600x because "amd is better now" instead of going for a 11400f
amd will ride that wave as long as they can because they know those things take time to change
AMD is making record profits compared to ~ the last decade, so I don't think their stock price is in any danger - even if they lowered prices a little. The "real reason" why they haven't done so is because those things are still selling like hot cakes. Lowering prices wouldn't get them anything. They wouldn't sell any more, because they can't make any more.
Because they're annoying. I just bought a 5800x like 2 months ago at $395, for them to drop it down to $299 at Micro Center's and $350 online a month later.
AMD was great when I got my 2700x, but they're quickly gaining all the hate I used to have for Intel on to them. Soon enough I will be buying Intel CPU's and motherboard's and forgetting about AMD if they don't get their act together with their cpu prices again.
@@casedistorted They're splitting their wafer allocation too many ways. Consoles, consumer CPUs, server CPUs, GPUs...
@@Grimmwoldds Now they make chips for Tesla cars too. Can play Cyberpunk 2077 in Tesla.
Thanks for a really helpful review of an impressive CPU. Unfortunately, availability in Australia doesn't look too great. PCCG are the only place I've found that have the non F version listed (at AUD 589, which is AUD60-80 cheaper than the 12700K), and even then it's with an ETA of the end of February. Seems like Intel/ Retailers have prioritised the i5 chips instead.
Such a shame, because it seems perfect for my use case: an air cooled SFF build. I just wish there were some decent ITX boards to go along with these whopper processors. I know it's not usually what the channel covers, but I do think it's worth mentioning because of how solid these 65W chips look and how disappointing the ITX mobos have been in comparison to the excellent ATX boards you've tested.
@@RUclipsTookMyNickname.WhyNot Yeah, really weird decisions. The 65W 12700F seems easy enough to find for around AUD580 and the unlocked K/KF have gone on sale a few times already. Ryzen 5000's prices didn't drop anywhere near what I was expecting them to over November/December sales. Was planning a 5800x or 5900x build but it just doesn't make sense at the prices they are given the age of the platform.
How about the noise performance of the new cooler? Is it still loud under loads?
Intel has become competitive again and this is good news. The 12400 will be the obvious choice against the 5600x. The 5800X3D will have to defend amd until zen4 launches. If gpu prices were normal it would be a great year to upgrade my ryzen 1700+gtx1070.
1070 is a decent card, so you can start with cpu upgrade first. also ppl sell 1070 for around 530$ here. you can find 3060 for around 1000$ atm, its a bit too much imo, but still better compared to when you have nothing to sell. if you would buy 6600xt it will cost you not more than 800$ but you'll have almost twice performance boost, not a bad deal at all imo
@@mirage8753 I guess I’m lucky I bought my 3080 for $750 when it first came out. The way things are looking I might end up keeping it for many years unless crypto crashes.
That power state BS is really frustrating .
Great job!. I can't tell you how much I REALLY appreciate the multi-thread benchmarks. Looking at the Cinebench results AMD may find themselves playing catch-up since all they have announced so far is the 5800X3D for the first 1/2 of 2022 which serves no purpose other than to edge out intel in AAA gaming. That said it would have been nice to see a 5950x result in the charts but if memory serves it was on par with the 12900k(and still about double the price of the 12700k)
22:43 I don't think "lower is better" is the correct metric here :D.
Great review and comparison. I have a prebuilt and going to transfer to a fresh build...so many options now, cheaper high end 11th gen, 12th gen out...tempted to the 12900k, but a max power 12700 is all you'd ever need for gaming. Even Ryzen is looking good value!
11th gen is a bad idea unless its veeery cheap... the 12700 is dumb where i live... 1€ less than the 12700kf... yes, 399 vs 398....
I have the 12700K and it has been very impressive, the 12700 is near enough the same CPU with just some limits which the motherboards like the B series will allow you to unlock in terms of power. Coupled to a B series motherboard and some DDR4 you will have a great gaming PC though to be honest if gaming is the sole focus, the 12400 might be the superstar....12400 is sub $200 plus a $150 for the B series motherboard and some DDR4 ram, you have a sub $500 gaming setup for years to come.. As to 11th gen, do not buy unless as you will be locked to a platform that is now dead.. With 12th gen you at least have an upgrade path to Raptor Lake, PCIe Gen 5 etc...
Even 12400 matches or beats 11700K in all games, at half price. 11th gen is not worth from now.
So base clock of non-K intel CPUs are in range of 2 GHz and for K it's in 3 GHz range. While boost clock is almost same ,generally at a 100 mhz difference at around 5GHz. In benchmarks both K and non K CPUs perform very close.
What does the base clock signifies?
I mean what's the benifit/con of lower base clock? Why non K CPUs have much lower base clock than their K counterparts
I tried finding good answer on this but didn't found a perfect answer anywhere, see if you know.
@@Jimster481 so if I choosed to buy a forever boosting b660 motherboard and 12700 then base clock shouldn't be a reason to worry? I'm saving 150$ approx by not getting 12700k with budget x690
I just noticed in this video the 12700kf premiere pro numbers are considerably lower than the video before and after this. Just wondering if something got misslabled.
Its down by arround 100 points.
Thanks for all te deatled benchmarking you do.
The reason 12700 with box cooler uses more power is because for roughly every 10C increase in operating temperature CPUs/GPUs lose ~4% efficiency.
Well done. Alternatively you could have just listened to the video properly.
@@Steve-ph7qn Dont comment when you have nothing of value to say.
After watching this, I went ahead with 12700F + used 1050Ti (INR 37000) and ended up basically at same price for a 12700K (INR 38500) with a huge graphics boost in comparison and beats 12600K (INR 31500) too. OC is really out of question when you are already close to 5.
I'm SERIOUSLY looking forward to upgrading my i7-6700! :-) Thank you for the review, it was very helpful and informative for me.
I had that cpu. It served me well. Upgraded to a R7 3800x and then to a R7 5800x.
Interesting take. Now after CES I can't wait to see the Ryzen 7 5800X3D against Alder Lake. Hopefully we will see other CPUs with 3D cache.
Same, but I have the feeling we won't see more than that R7 5800X with 3D stacking. Seems like this is just a stop-gap solution until Zen 4 comes out.