What I really love about this book is how it portrays so well the mind of someone who has fully bought into fascist propaganda. Snow believes people from the districts are barely human, animalistic, cruel monsters, but then he meets Lucy Gray and she is none of those things. And while some people might then start to reevaluate their beliefs, he instead jumps through hoops to justify liking her to himself and the Capitol “she’s one of the good ones! Better yet she isn’t *really* a district girl if you think about it! She’s not like *them*” and he buys into the narrative that he’s spun for himself. But then as soon as Lucy steps out of line for what he finds acceptable, shows evidence that she is her own person with her own backstory, conflicts, and interests, it doesn’t compute for him. He sees her as a prize to be won, an object to own. And as soon as she acts on her own autonomy he can’t handle it, he doubles down on his hatred of the district people, “Lucy Gray was actually a conniving little mastermind the whole time! She was never a good person! I should have never trusted someone from the districts.” Lucy Gray wasn’t some poor innocent, defenseless girl who needed Snow to rescue and protect her, and she wasn’t a conniving backstabber luring Snow in so that she could manipulate him to her advantage. She was a person trying to survive insane circumstances, and to her at the start Snow made himself seem different from the rest of the Capitol, like he might actually care about her. As soon as she realized “oh this dude would turn on me in a second if it meant going back home” she booked it into the woods and then Snow had a full on meltdown firing his gun in all directions to try and kill her. Snow goes back to the Capitol and has done exactly zero introspection. At every chance he had with Sejanus and Lucy Gray he doubled down, refused to reflect because, like so many who go down a fascist pipeline, admitting that his beliefs are wrong, that his government is in the wrong, would shatter his entire world view, the view he has of his father, his teachers, his neighbors. He would do a complete overhaul of his mindset, so like so many others, he plugs his ears, he jumps through hoops to rationalize, and he doubles down even harder on his beliefs.
To elaborate on the shattered worldview, he would have to acknowledge that the Games are evil, that the district children are just children who don’t deserve to die, that Sejanus was actually in the right and he also didn’t deserve to die, that people outside of himself are complex individuals with their own wants, needs, and desires, and that all these people he’s looked down on are just as human and just as intelligent as he is. And he couldn’t cope with that
You hit the nail on the head! At every turn where he could learn a lesson, he bends over backwards to rationalise his hard set world view. For example, even though he grew up poor, he has no empathy for the poverty in district 12 and sees himself as above them. And he only does the right thing because that’s what’s expected of him and will help him get ahead, not because that’s what he wants to do. Like being friendly with Sejanus. And when Sejanus is in trouble, he isn’t worried about him, only that he made the “mistake” of making everyone assume they were friends and now will be brought down with him.
@@LibiB26 I also think that, while he does see himself as above other impoverished people, he does see it as a flaw in his life, and something to be ashamed of. It's not that he only applies those judgements to anyone but himself, but that he actually does believe being poor makes you less-than, and he does apply that to himself, so he hides it desperately and is terrified of anyone finding out the truth.
That's why I defend a character from another series who imprisoned someone who changed his views. Just because he changed his view on the love interest doesn't mean he changed his view about the people she belongs to
11:37 Lucy Gray didn’t rally the snakes by singing. She thinks that’s whats happening and so does the audience. But it was really Snow putting the handkerchief in the snake tank that makes them not attack her. But Snow doesn’t want Gaul to know that he cheated so he goes along with it. And Gaul is skeptical because she knows that those snakes wouldn’t respond to singing like that since she created them.
Someone may have already mentioned it but in the first movie, Snow asked the game maker, Seneca Crane, "Have you ever been out there? 10? 11? 12?" Crane replied, "Not personally, no." Snow says, "I have..." He goes on about underdogs, etc. A throw away line that becomes the foundation for this prequel.
To be fair to Suzanne about the whole "hand of the author thing," she did hint at there being something weird abt the first ever winner from district 12 bc in the HG books they mention the previous winners as Haymitch and "some girl." Which matches up nicely with the idea that they erased Lucy, and also gives the perspective that a lot of Snow's interactions with Katniss are shadowed by the ghost of Lucy.
Someone said once that Lucy Gray was a performer forced to fight and that Katniss was a fighter forced to perform and I think that put into perspective a lot of their distinct personalities but also seeing how they overlap so effortlessly.
My favourite thing about this book that unfortunately isnt in the movie is Snow's thoughts when he finds out about the erasure "It was just one more way to eliminate Lucy Gray from the world. The Capitol would forget her, the districts barely knew her, and district 12 had never accepted her as one of their own. In a few years, there would be a vague memory that a girl had once sung in the arena. And then that would be forgotten,too. Goodbye, Lucy Gray, We hardly knew you." The last line especially I love because despite the fact she's so important to Snows story we learn basically nothing about her life and who she is, she was simply a stepping stone in Snows climb to power.
the movie really stripped back quite a lot IMO. It was heavy handed overall, and the first part was poorly acted/written and awkward, and they also didn't do his possessiveness well. I'd have wished to see more of him believing he's owed her, and him wanting her without actually wanting who she is, wanting someone because they're completely dependent on him and he'll always be superior etc etc. The not showing that "her games" was erased is just extra on that. My wish was to have the hunt in the forest to be more personal, to be more abot believing her life is his to decide over. Idk
@@BexsBoxofConfusion I understand why the movie struggled to show Snows possessiveness since it was mainly his inner monologue and hardly ever outright spoken that he saw her as a possession but I did like the hint to it during the reaping with Dean Highbotton saying the girl from district 12 belongs to Snow.
Snow was ALWAYS the man he is in the other books. S.Collins almost got me on my first read-through of this book with the Lucy Grey and Sejanus stuff (obviously not at the ending), but when I went back through it a second time I realized that he has been the same FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOK. There was no possibility for a redemption arc because there was never anything redeemable about him. When I paid more attention to how he actually thought about the people around him, I realized the he looked down on ALL OF THEM and saw them only as tools for his own ambitions from the very beginning of the book. Even the ones he seemed to care about. As soon as they outlived their usefulness, they were no longer relevant to him and some lost their lives because of it. He only “liked” his cousin for her skills, that’s clear in Mocking Jay when you realize how separated his cousin becomes once her skills are no longer useful to him in the games. He tolerated his grandmother because without her he wouldn’t have made it out of the war alive, but in the book he only sees her presence as an annoying and only Tigris is caring for her as she nears the end of her life. He “cared” about Sejanus because being his friend meant a better shot at money, and when that was no longer possible, he betrayed him because that served Snow better. The only professor he “respected” was out of fear and he still used her as a puzzle piece in his plans, with the snakes and at the end knowing that getting back in her good graces meant upward mobility. And he only “loved” Lucy Grey because she meant glory in the first part of the book, comfort in the second, and safety in the third when he thought he had to run away because she knew how to survive in the woods. And when he was presented with the chance to go back, he took it with barely any hesitation.
Yessss, he’s always been self-serving. He is a selfish, selfish man who only sees others for what they can get him. I was very confused as to why Lucy Gray was with him.
100%!!! I replied to somebody else saying this as well, but Snow was born this way. It was always the path he was going to take, no matter the circumstances.
Yes! It was hard for me to see in the first read because he does some good things but he never does them for the right reasons. It’s only ever to serve him and his goals
What I love is that Tigress is proof that as much as we empathize with what they went through he didn’t have to end up the way he did, there were other options
Even Sejanus. He didn't even go through what the Snow's did, and his father is a terrible man, and yet Sejanus still turned out so empathetic and kind and soft-hearted.
I'm not trying to be mean, but there are several things in this book that I can't believe you seemed to have missed. How did you not realize that Snow was the one who reported Sejanus until after he was dead? From what I remember, the book was pretty obvious about that beforehand, including when he recorded their conversation. And likening Lucy Gray to a Disney princess for calming the snakes with her singing AFTER you'd already commented on the scene where he put the handkerchief into the snake tank, which was obviously the real reason the snakes were drawn to her scent? I feel like there were some parts of the book where you weren't paying much attention.
omg yes! while his other reviews missed some things that are mostly minor and can be easily dismissed as a bit of confusion, a lot of his perception of this book is just plain wrong. you can see the whole video he always theorizes about every male character doing something, except lucy gray, in his comments she's never causing or planning anything, he kinda fell right through snow's mind and followed him in his perception of lucy gray with zero critical thinking... sooo weird to watch tbh
I went into this book expecting not to like it because I didn't want a book that gave Snow a sad little backstory that explained why he becomes a horrendous dictator. But that's not what this book is. on the very first page, Snow describes Tigris, the person he's closest to and the only one he feels something at least close to love for, as someone who "invites abuse". He already is well on the way to become who he is. And we can't blame his past for that, bc again, we have Tigris, who went through basically the same things as him, and she instead became soft, and caring, and innovative. The book presents Snow with many, many moments where he could make decisions that would lead his life and personality to something completely different. And without fail, he picks the selfish options, the ones he thinks will benefit him the most, the ones that show his inability to trust people or care for them (even the people he claims to love, like Lucy, he only loves as long as they BELONG to him, are his property. He can only care for others as long as he sees them as an extention of himself), the ones that see the worst in humanity while glorifying himself. I agree with feeling the hand of the author, but I still felt like the book offered valid explanations for them (like Snow getting the D12 tribute bc Highbottom wanted revenge). It def is my least fave compared to the other 3, but it def wasn't just a cash grab. It had a lot of things to say.
I agree! It 100% was not a cash grab. I don’t think we should put our expectations on an author to make the book we want (now THAT is fan service). I fully believe Suzanne would be the last author to do a cash grab.
I love that you noted how Tigris went through most of the same exact experience Snow did, but turned out completely different. I feel like something he missed in this video is that Snow is not just a product of his environment and circumstances, but that Collins clearly implies this is just who he is. Snow was BORN to be evil, this was always going to be his path, no matter the circumstances. From the beginning he's self-obsessed, egotistical, judgmental, and cruel. He wasn't conditioned to be like that, he just is.
i wholeheartedly agree. if Suzanne wanted a cashgrab she had a million other options, but instead she went with the idea that had the most to say. she said herself that she'd never add to this series unless she had something to say, and she absolutely did. you have to go into this book with the mindset that Snow is going to make himself look as good as possible, but the audience has the insight on who he becomes
Katniss mentions in The Hunger Games that there was a Victor before Haymitch for District 12. I’m on the side of loving this book. The over arching theme of “What is Human Nature?” I thought was really good. I see Katniss as the “ghost” of Lucy Gray haunting him. Katniss is the consequences of his actions that he thought he got away with. Lucy Gray and Katniss play out the way the Jabberjays were handled. “A creature the Capitol never intended to exist. They didn’t anticipate its will to live.”
Lucy Gray did not try to kill Snow at the end. He thought so, and since he was freaking out about Lucy Gray being on the loose he just jumped to conclusions. When he went back to get treated the doctor tells him that it was NOT a venomous snake and that it was common for those types of snakes to come out after heavy rain. When he realizes Lucy is gone, but that the only actual physical proof of him being a criminal are those weapons he sets on his path. He doesn't believe Lucy could put up a fight against him, not physically and surely not against society. She is the pariah, she is district and then not even that. He knows she will be forgotten and he only has to keep himself straight to keep history like he wants it. He freaks out, but then rationalizes that it's her word against his and she is nothing against that. Snow was always Snow, faced again and again with options he always chose those that brought him back to the Capitol in order to restore his honor. He was blinded.
It’s hard to say honestly that was probably the closest snake around so she could not be picky. It’s supposed to be up in the air and there are reasons for it and against it.
This is how I interpreted that scene. Lots of coincidences that were likely not anything actually that he read too much into. I dislike that the movie made it seem more purposeful
2:47 But it's the whole point of the story of the characters. 😂 If you know the events of THG before reading this then obviously it will feel like, "Oh, so he just happened to get the girl from district 12?! Well, that's a coincidence". But it's literally the whole point of Snow's backstory and his relationship with District 12 which then informs his future relationship with Katniss. 🤦♀️ To imply that the author made a misstep or just wrote what she wanted to write for sh*ts and giggles is to completely miss the whole point of both stories and the point of releasing Snows backstory. 😅
The thing in the beginning of the video about it seeming like fan service that we're in district 12 again, they may be a little bit true, but another important fact is that it is mentioned at the beginning of the first hunger games book that there is another Victor from district 12 and it's kind of insinuated that no one remembers who they are because there's no name or gender mentioned so it could be Lucy they're mentioning: "It is both a time for repentance and a time thanks, intones the mayor. Then he reads the list of past District 12 victors. In seventy- four years, we have had exactly two. Only one is still alive."
It's also important to note that, while yes in the movies and not AS much in the books, Snow has a particular hatred for District 12. Being in District 12 isn't just fan-service, but further explanation for why Snow hates them so much.
He’s get the girl from District 12 because she, on paper, has the worst odds and the man choosing who mentors who wants Snow to lose. Yes it’s story symmetry and clearly Suzanne wanted it that what but within the context and motivations of the characters it makes perfect sense.
It’s heavily theorized that Katniss is a descendent of the covey (Maude Ivory most likely). It’s said that she has a good singing voice, as did her dad. Plus their name is Everdeen, two letters away from Evergreen. If that’s true, and a covey is her (great?) grandparent, it would make sense that her dad knew about the lake and the hut and brought her there, making the tie-in more believable
He is of course not the fully formed Snow from the trilogy in conniving and intellect, thats 75 years later. He perfects his craft of evil BY THAT time, not now. This was merely the beginning
Lucy Gray was named after the poem ‘Lucy Gray’ by William Wordsworth. The poem is about a young girl who gets lost in a storm and is never found again. However, there are some people who do not believe that she has died. They think that Lucy is alive, because they have often seen her walking and singing, and have spotted her footprints upon the snowy fields but these footprints lead nowhere. She sings a song and never looks behind. Her ghost haunts people and the possibility she’s still alive drives others to madness. An excerpt from the poem: At day-break on a hill they stood That overlooked the moor; And thence they saw the bridge of wood, A furlong from their door. They wept--and, turning homeward, cried, "In heaven we all shall meet;" --When in the snow the mother spied The print of Lucy's feet. Then downwards from the steep hill's edge They tracked the footmarks small; And through the broken hawthorn hedge, And by the long stone-wall; And then an open field they crossed: The marks were still the same; They tracked them on, nor ever lost; And to the bridge they came. They followed from the snowy bank Those footmarks, one by one, Into the middle of the plank; And further there were none! --Yet some maintain that to this day She is a living child; That you may see sweet Lucy Gray Upon the lonesome wild. O'er rough and smooth she trips along, And never looks behind; And sings a solitary song That whistles in the wind. Similarly, Coriolanus is a tragedy by William Shakespeare. The play is based on the life of the legendary Roman leader Gnaeus Marcius Coriolanus. In the play, Coriolanus makes his name defeating an enemy army and defending Rome. The Senate nominates him as consul but he cannot win the people's vote, so he is banished from Rome and allies with an old enemy. Faced with this opposition, Coriolanus flies into a rage and rails against the concept of popular rule. He compares allowing plebeians to have power over the patricians to allowing "crows to peck the eagles". Eventually, he is assassinated.
While a lot of Snows success in this book is luck, he does not see it that way. He sees it as “snow lands on top” and he was vile and cruel to get that way. Thats what changes. He realized the most he gives into his vile side the more things go his way. So he will stay that way, add in the power he eventually gets, and we have the president know we love to hate. About the fan service while I do see what you are talking about I loved reading those parts. The hanging tree song being written about an execution he was there for. (You can see him in mockingjay movie correct the lyrics they changed). Him going crazy at the mockingjays and how he hates them mostly bc they are half Capitol and half district just like he made all the victors and Katniss. Some things are just thrown in like the Katniss plant but it was a little lol moment.
One of my favorite things actually about this book is the songs because you see 2 of them again with Katniss and it kind of shows a bit about how Lucy Gray was never fully forgotten like Snow wanted her to be. Also I think it's hilarious to think about how mad Snow must have been when he heard Katniss sing deep in the meadow or hanging tree.
Lots of people also surmised that Katniss' father is a descendant of one of the covey members as well. Maude Ivory, bc if her ability to hear a song once and commit it to memory.
I never really saw what happens as luck. He has so many chances throughout the book to show empathy and kindness, at the cost of his own benefit, and every time he chooses the opposite. I read it as Snow being hypervigilant of every action he can take and always being sure to pick the most beneficial one.
Something I like about tbosas is that it's written in third person versus the other three written in first person. It automatically disconnects us from Snow, keeping us at arms length and preventing us from connecting too closely with him. Such an interesting decision. Im curious which Suzanne Collins will do in the next book!
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! I loved watching all your predictions not come true ahahhaha this book is my favourite now but I will admit I had to read it once, watch the movie and then read it again to love it. I do now realize based on what you said that there are parts of the book she wrote to make fans happy (district 12 girls, hanging tree song, same hut etc) but I can't help and love it. I think it was fascinating to see what Snow deemed as "love" instead of possession. It also made me realize why he was so against Katniss. He once saw the power of a simple district member had for change. I am looking forward to your movie review!
And also it made me realized as much as fan service it could seem that it also explains why he is soooo infuriated by katnis. Just after the district 13 show her singinf the hanginf tree he lost his mind and bombed that district. Like an emotional response instead of a tactical one. I love those kind of similarities
one of my FAVORITE little details in this book were the tesserae tile buttons. I always wondered why the offerings for extra name slips were called that. Turns out it’s just Snow still being bitter over a slight from when he was 18.
@@padalapallavi2011 In the beginning of the book, Tigris takes the tesserae (a geometrical pattern) off of some tiles on the walls of Snow’s bathroom to make him fancy-looking buttons for his shirt to wear to the ceremony at school. The other students notice that they look a little janky, and poke fun at him. Clearly, the memory became a reminder to him of the degrading things he was forced to do due to the poverty of the war with the districts. So, when he forces the districts to do something degrading (put their names in the Reaping more times in exchange for more food) so that *they* could escape *their* poverty, he decides to name it “tesserae” out of spite.
I like that Lucy wrote “The Hanging Tree” and it stuck around all those decades later for Katniss to sing it. As much as Snow tried to erase Lucy and what had happened, some things don’t go away.
19:53 His love for Lucy Gray was never normal, he was very possessive and about control. Just because he saved her, he thought he owned her. Every time Snow felt threatened, his first thought and his first reaction was self-serving, like when he killed the mayor's daughter or how he betrayed Sejanus but he always justified it as self-defence in his mind. So, as soon as he felt threatened by Lucy Gray, he didn't shy away from trying to kill her especially when he has a chance at going to district 2. He made that scenario in his mind that lucy gray betrayed him. 21:47 Lucy gray didn't try to kill him it was non-venomous snake, but Snow doesn't know that, he thinks that he has back to district to get treated. She also wanted to check how he would've reacted if he felt threatened by her and we saw what happened after that. That's the difference between lucy gray's self defence and Snow's self defence.
First of all, I want to say that I do love your commentary, I've been watching all of your HG reaction vids and they are great. I do feel like a lot of the decisions made in the writing of this book weren't made necessarily to compliment or "call back" the other three but were the establishing factors in every decision that Snow makes. 2:47 - It makes sense that he would be given the District 12 female character. It is explained that he is the least wealthy and nobody holds him in good favour so they put him at a disadvantage. It is also mentioned in the books that there is another district 12 victor but it is glossed over. It also would explain why Snow specifically hates District 12. 11:37 - She didn't actually rally the snakes, it is just part of the spectacle and Snow goes along so he isn't caught. 18:53 - Overall, I do feel that part of how Snow gets to where he is is luck, but it's kind of the point. Despite him being poor he is still upper class and still benefits systemically from his ancestors who rose to wealth upon the backs of the districts. We get to see how he is cunning and his intelligence contributed to his rise but he doesn't realize his luck because he just believes he is better than that. His own personal biases shape how we see him in this book compared to how Katniss depicts him in the others- of course, she's going to see him as so much scarier and smarter than he really is. Also, he is still young at this point and therefore he isn't the same person that we see in the other books- this is just the beginning. On a similar note, Snow is an unreliable narrator and still a teen with trauma so he would have conflicting feelings on Lucy Gray. Personally, I don't think Snow ever actually loved Lucy. He loved the control he had over her and he loved what she could offer him. I know that people didn't enjoy this book because of some of the lack of action and things being glossed over but I also think it is intentional when you take in Snow's self-absorbed character and the fact that he just lived through a war and a lot of things just don't phase him anymore. His anxiety throughout the book could also explain some of his odd decisions, priorities and interpretations. I did find the gun scene confusing and the ending fairly underwhelming as well. I really liked the call to the Hanging Tree and the Mockingjay with Sejanus but other than that I feel like Suzanne definitely should've been more specific with the ending. There were also definitely points in the book only for the purpose of being references to the original like the common last names and finding the katniss by the water although I found it a bit charming. The book definitely grew on me the more I thought about it.
I love this book, but I thinking reading it Years after reading the original trilogy effected my experience. If you view this book as truly chronologically first in the whole story, I love that Katniss is his ultimate comuppets, a monster of his own long awaited making, practically made in a lab to drive him insane.
Your comment about disliking how much his luck was what ultimately afforded him success, over cunningness etc was what I LIKED about the book (alongside everything else you liked). I felt like it was a great parallel between the story of Katniss as so much of her entrance and survival in the games is luck. That’s what makes him so obsessed with her. That and her similarities to Lucy. So good
I really enjoyed this video haha I actually enjoyed the book quite a bit. I read it as a narrator that cant be trusted, all he shows us is how he sees things in his mind, not being accountable for the result of his choices or lack thereof. We really never get to know anyone as they are because we see them through Coriolanus ' eyes
15:18 People don’t like this book? I did. Am I the only one who does? 😭😭 Also, the whole thing of him winning by luck kind of fits. I mean, it's mentioned that Snow would poison people, and also poisoning himself. But he has an antidote, but not every antidote works. So he just gets lucky with life. Also, remember. Snow isn't much of a reliable narrator, so not everything is so cut throat. I personally like that the author put in some little hints of Katniss and stuff. Because to me. It's a way of saying, "this will haunt him forever." Like Lucy will haunt Snow forever and gets reminded of her through Katniss. And her name being Katniss, the mockingbird, and the fact that she sings one of her songs. It's like the past is coming to haunt him again. Idk. But I thought it was a good book.
It's very strange to me that people don't notice the parallels with the main series and Snow's unreliability as a narrator. It feels like some people either can't or simply refuse to see past the literal text.
I love this book and I super loved the philosophical aspect of it but I guess the biggest take away is that Snow is a suuuuuper unreliable narrator, no one ever suspected him, no one was ever out to get him, lucy gray never tried to kill him. his driving force is often the fact that he’s assuming everyone is going to treat him how he treats others and so he moves to prevent it, leading to him getting into binds. It’s an interesting book to speculate on and one can argue that having to speculate doesn’t make for a good book but I personally really loved it
Lucy Gray is (or is based off) Romani! They are known for their bright coloured clothing, preforming, singing and travelling! So her family being trapped into District 12, when she is from there, is a commentary on real life and the treatment of Roma in our society. Much like how the Seam was mainly Indigenous American, whilst the marketing district is mainly white people :] ! PS: She sung to the snakes cause that's how she calmed the snakes down back home, but really the snakes didn't attack her cause of the hankerchief (which you properly already know) (also she's a singer, so of course she's gonna sing.)
I totally agree with your final review. I enjoyed the book when I read it (though it was definitely slow at parts) but I left feeling like something was missing that connects the Snow from this book to the Snow we see later.
I don’t think he doesn’t care what happens to Lucy Gray, I think he just knows he has the power in the situation. If he wanted he’d be able to find her and be a threat to her & the whole Covey. And he keeps that energy with Katniss, “I don’t want to kill you…”, just to continue exerting his power and control over people. I actually enjoyed the movie. May the odds be ever in your favor on the feelings meter!
I think this video is how I learn that not as many peopple enjoyed it as I thought 😢My takeaway was always that Snow as a child developed a surivial instinct that manifested into selfishness, and when presented multiple chances to redeem himself, he chose the villainous option under the guise and instinct of self preservation. Mirroring Lucy Gray and her survivalistic instincts, but I believe as the reader we are convinced that she is just morally right, therefore worthy of redemption and justifiable in all of her actions.
I think the whole series is a comment on narcissism & this is a segue into it. Being in Snow’s head is the polar opposite of being in Katniss’ head. We read Snow grab hold of those tendencies while we read Katniss having them perpetrated against her & tearing her down at every other turn from people like Gale, Snow himself & later Coin. We see the effects of that, in both books, personally in how it effects their self-worth & relationships with others and on a societal level. I found the juxtaposition actually quite fascinating. For that reason, I liked the links to district 12 and the nod to the fact that there was a real underground movement with the Covey - almost like an underground church, and underground sense of hope, tenacity & vitality that would otherwise be completely lost. I like that it’s so hidden, but that the Easter eggs are all there for the taking. In that way, I don’t think it’s fan service. It’s creating theory and plausibility for everything to come. I think the book for the 50th Games won’t be from a GameMaker or a Mentor perspective, but probably from the perspective of someone in the district 12 that knows Haymitch. We need to see what that underground movement would have been like, knowing that it was there but also seeing how it could be sustained. It’s a political commentary - it’s not just story. And it’s relevant now, which is why she’s writing it.
Mentioning how much you love the handkerchief being dropped in the snake pit but then also completely miss why the snakes don't attack Lucy Gray is really funny
I was not crazy about Lucy Gray being from 12. I felt we didnt need the connection we couldve gotten another district pov. But i still liked the book. My least favorite but i liked it. Sejanus was one of my favorite characters. Much like the other books theres definitely a lot of social commentary. Corio is definitely a representation of a white supremacist. Sejanus i feel is sumbolic of being an immagrant and struggling with assimilation and keeping your identity
I truly believe the movie did a better job at showing how Snow slowly becomes who we know him to be than the book. There are smaller conversations added in the movie that to me really made a difference, like all his interactions with Gaul!
i think Suzanne Collins intentionally left out pieces of Snow that we wanted to see. she wanted to write a story that meant something, not a prequel to The Hunger Games. a story about how people can and will be manipulated by propaganda, and how a person can become abhorrent in the face of propaganda and a mentor that wants one thing. a follower. the book was never meant to be about Snow.
My main hope for the Haymitch book is that the only legitimate description we have of it is that it takes place during his games. It’s not confirmed that it’s gonna be his pov/centered around him. I think it would be very interesting if she didn’t focus entirely on him (obviously she will have to include him in some capacity but still) and instead on a different facet of the games at the time. Maybe from another tribute who dies, a mentor, a spectator of the games, etc. Or even multiple povs. Who knows if that’s the route she chose to take, but I think there’s still some room for her to go a new direction. I’m cautiously optimistic😭 Cant wait to see what you think of the movie!
I liked the movie a lot more than I was expecting - reading the songs in the book doesn't make them real for me, so seeing them performed made something click in my brain. Re-reading the book after seeing the film, I enjoyed it more than the first time.
I’ve really enjoyed watching you go through these. I think s&n was a great book if your like me, who read the original a while ago and had zero expectations. I think Susan really did a great job of telling a story of both how a man and a system can transform from ambitious to evil incarnate. I disagree that this book had a lot of fan service. To me, it perfectly closes the gap why Snow never underestimates Katniss and seems a little paranoid about a girl from district 12. Donald expressed this so well in the moves, just by his leers and reactions alone. Another chance to kill the one who got away.
It was one of the most entertaining book reviews I’ve ever watched. I didn’t even care whether you liked the book or not; I had so much fun watching it that I completely forgot about the book itself. You’re amazing! Me being wrong count was just as amazing as you!
I also like the fact that later on, Snow was so pissed by Katniss and Peeta "cheating" and got Hamitch's whole family killed beacause he outsmarted the capitol in the arena but Snow was the first one to cheat in order to make his tribute win. After Lucy's games, (I believe) he also passed motions in order to prevent tributes from bringing dangerous tokens into the arena (like the gril from district one during Katniss' games who tried to bring a ring that could poison people) because that's what he did by giving his mother's powder compact to Lucy.
Like 3 minutes in, and I totally see what you mean about feeling the hand of the author when it comes to Snow getting the district 12 girl. 🤣 I felt the same way my first time reading, but I guess I just got used to it so it doesn't phase me anymore. Hearing ur reaction took me back
The fact that people jumped to the conclusion that this book was going to justify future actions showed how dumb non objective readers can be. There’s a difference between justifying and understanding.
I really enjoyed this book. It had been a while since I’d read the original Hunger Games books and I’d forgotten how much I enjoy Suzanne Collins as an author. Regarding Snow getting the District 12 girl, I feel like it was a good choice because the 12 kids usually didn’t win and because it was a dig at Snow by Highbottom. And the juxtaposition of Snow falling for a girl from District 12 and then ultimately being defeated by another girl from District 12 is good because it shows that he never learned not to underestimate them. Another thing I think was really important was that Lucy Gray didn’t die in the Games. If she had, it would have given Snow a reason to hate the Capitol. It could have radicalized him against the Capitol and then he wouldn’t have become the man he was in the original trilogy. The world building was, again, incredible and so fun to read. It was really incredible to be able to see what kind of person Snow started as. He was so selfish the entire story and his idea of love was such a possessive one. I thoroughly enjoyed this book, though I was a bit disappointed in the ambiguity of the ending.
There's a quote from Brennan Lee Mulligan that this book makes me think of "People are not motivated by ideological codes. People are motivated by impulse and construct ideological codes to justify and rationalize what they were already going to do. An old professor of mine had this great thing. He said, “On the level of individuals and civilizations, ‘personality predates ideology’. Meaning before you were a fascist, you were a bully and an asshole."" Snow proves that throughout the entire book, it was never what HAPPENED to him that made him the way he was, he ALWAYS had a choice to be better, to be more empathetic, to treat people with decency, to make things better. But he never does, he only does "good" things for self-serving reasons, the Capitol's system didn't end up the way it was because of politics, but because Snow and those who came before him were classist, selfish assholes who believed their perceived excellence made them ABOVE caring about the humanity of the people they were exploiting. And there are people all throughout this book that PROVE that Snow didn't have to be that way. Sejanus could have become as obsessed with status as Snow was and used his father's wealth to buy people's favour, he could have stopped having empathy for the other people from the districts and considered himself above them but he didn't. Tigress grew up in the exact same circumstances that Snow did, dead parents, traumatised from the war, fallen from grace and forced to hide their poverty from those around them, but she actually put herself through more pain and suffering so Coriolanus wouldn't have to and yet she still had sympathy and empathy for people from the districts. Even many of Snow's classmates don't seem self-aware enough to realise exactly how messed up what they're doing to the districts, they're too self-involved for it, it's why Dr Gaul singles him out: true evil requires awareness and intentionality.
Yes. I think Suzanne did SO MUCH fan service because she had fear about it coming a full decade later she needed to tie it to the original trilogy: Snow getting the District 12 girl, Tigris being his cousin, all the academy characters except Seajanus being references to the capitol characters from the trilogy, Lucy Gray enjoyment with the Mockingjays, the little stains that suggests Maude Ivory being Katniss' parental grandmother, Lucy Gray "mentioning" Katniss in the lake, the hut bring the same as Katniss', Lucy being the author of the hanging tree, etc
I disagree. I like her writing and she wrote about the previous district 12 winner in the earlier trilogies. Good writers leave openings for themselves to revisit or leave as mysteries. Just because it was written after does not mean she never had thought of Snow’s backstory previously. I would be surprised if she hasn’t thought through every character’s backstory even if she knew she would never write a book about them.
Except, if you think about it chronologically Snow and Lucy Gray's relationship informs his reaction to Katniss later on and explains his reaction to her and Peeta's love story.
I loved your reaction to the book. I look forward to seeing what you think of the film. It's going to be fascinating. I watched the film first and only then read the book. And of course that affects the reaction and the opinion. But for me, if after watching the film I have a desire to read the book, then it's a good film. After reading the book I think it could have been even better, but unfortunately they can't release in cinemas a film that goes on for 4 hours). And almost everyone who just started watching the film and just started reading the book thought that Lucy would be killed and it would break Snow's heart and make him as we know him. I think it's good that this is not the case and we see already from the first chapters that he already has the qualities of the Snow we know from the first books.
totally understand your review. i also did not love it in the first read, but the movie really sold it to me which is rare but soooooo nice when it happens! i think suzanne is brave for keeping the saga going, it's super hard to recreate something so big and well received as hunger games was at the time. even though i did not love this book, im excited to see more fenomenal world building in the next book!!!!
I think it’s best not to look at this as Snow’s rise to power but rather how his motivations and view of the world comes to be. The book is inspired by Thomas Hobbes’ Leviathan (it’s quoted at the beginning). Dr. Gaul is the representation of Hobbes’ views on humanity and the state of nature. The idea that when stripped of the confines of state power, human beings find themselves in a war of all against all. Dr. Gaul believes the Hunger Games is supposed to remind people of this idea (not as a reminder of the war, which is the official line). In part 2, Dr. Gaul is teaching him this. She sends him into the games to give him a taste of it, that anyone, including him is subject to this state of nature. He immediately is willing to kill a kid to save himself. Part 3 is the field study, it’s him finding out if Dr. Gaul is right. It’s throwing him out into the state of nature without Dr. Gaul’s interference. Particularly the scene in the Hob, when the lights go out and everyone starts fighting. Just like in the arena, it’s an instance of, in a moment of lawlessness, everyone turns on each other-including him. It’s proving that without control, humanity will descend into savagery and war. This all culminates in his rush off into the wilderness, the literal state of nature with Lucy Grey. This is the final demonstration of Dr. Gaul’s lesson- even when two people supposedly in love are willing to turn on each other, then it proves that there needs to be control. This leads to his viewpoint and the world he builds that is all about control over the population because if that control doesn’t exist, then society will fall apart. ( shout out to my brother with a philosophy degree in helping me write this comment 😆)
Yeah I didn’t really like the book. Watched the movie right after I finished the book. And didn’t really like that much either. Makes me nervouse about the haymitch book coming out next year.
Lucy Gray Baird and Sejanus haunting Snow until his death and Katniss, their shadow, hunting him and causing his downfall is my kind of literature. Rereading the original trilogy I realized how thought out the entirety of the story was from the beginning. Lucy is EVERYWHERE, filling the plot holes with information, which is so weird because her story was written later. It's so clear that Snow's animosity and the weird, over the top hate he has for Katniss and Peeta specifically is because he sees Lucy and himself in them, if incorrectly. He's paranoid that Katniss doesn't really love Peeta, that she's using him for her own gain. Like he's convinced Lucy did to him. Because he thinks the love Peeta has for Katniss is the same he once had for Lucy (it's not). Who knows. Maybe when he saw the Mockingjay pin make an appearance he thought Katniss knew about Lucy. Maybe that's why he didn't believe her. So many things would have a different meaning to him with the context of Lucy. He probably thought the Hanging Tree was Katniss making fun of him. Even him refusing to call them rebels in his speech is reminiscent of Lucy Gray calling him one. I can't with how genius it all is.
You keep hoping he'll make the right choice, because it's right there, it's so easy to make. And instead he does the right thing and loathes it so much.
I'm reading this book right now (only because we're getting a fifth book) and I'm finding that I don't care as much as I did with OG three books also it was nice to have this as background noise while I read the book.
after seeing the movie, you HAVE to watch "the book Leo" videoessay about it! i particularly loved the movie and after seeing the video brought a whole other perspective onto it
I just finished this book about a month ago and had many of the same takeaways. I think I enjoyed it more because I liked seeing how Snow’s future self seemed to be come from a mixture of heightened ego, a “woe is me” mentality, and the teachings of Dr. Gaul. In particular without her, I’m not sure that he would have come up with so many future staples of the hunger games and the idea that the residents of the districts were both so far beneath those of the capital and also deserving of domination by the capital so there would be order. I find it mentally fascinating although I do also find the story to be mildly anemic because of the way the games themselves were handled. Then again at the time no one seems to care about the games nor to watch them, so maybe it makes sense 🤷🏾♀️
It says a lot about Snow that we learn almost nothing from other characters and we care very little about their deads because he doesn´t care about other people. A lot we learn about Sejanus or Lucy it´s when we, as readers, we reflect about their actions without Snow´s input.
Since it's a prequel of course you're gonna feel the hand of the author, she has to makes the rest make sense. Snow always had weird obsession with Katniss and district 12 in the trilogy. And now we know why.
Love your videos so much! I think you’re meant to walk away from the book knowing Snow is delulu and he doesn’t know if she lived or died. She does haunt him for the rest of his life, so when a character like Katniss comes into the picture, he wasn’t just trying to kill her - he let her be an underestimated liability to him because he was so distracted by his obsession.
When you remember that it's from his POV and that he's extremly biased a lot more make sense: glossing over the tributes, seeing Lucy Gray as innocent, Tigris and Sejanus too
I do think getting the perspective of “luck” being how Snow gets to power is very telling. he got lucky getting where he was, and had to increase his “cunning” (mostly through killing) in order to maintain that power. when he’s threatened, he kills. he did it with Lucy, he does it with the Dean, and he continues to. idk that’s something i felt.
Something that if you think on. Finnick says when he first started rising to power he was "more ruthless" in a way and he grows. Also if you think of how he reacted to Haymitch and his "bad behavior" in the arena vs Katniss. He becomes more cunning. He learned from the poisoning with his fingerprints to when he poisoned Highbottom. He learns and adapts. I do wish we had gotten more moments but I think seeing how he thinks on this book he's always possessive he's always self centered. The only exception is Tigris kinda. It's also why I think sunrise on the reaping is gonna be her perspective because she's a designer for the games that even Katniss kinda remembers her so I wonder if we are gonna see her disillusionment to her cousin. But I speculate she left after Finnicks games when she finds out he was selling the Victor's
I understand what you mean about the disconnect between BoSAS Snow and THG Snow, but I think the reason for that is simply due to age difference. We’re talking about a young man with a narcissistic mindset and cunning prowess, but he’s kinda just now learning that about himself. Young Snow is only starting to step into something that old Snow already acknowledges AND relies on as a crutch. Also, Snow’s life still has way more to it after BoSAS that the book really would not be able to flesh out. Rome didn’t fall in a day. In Snow’s case, Rome took around 30 years to become what it did in THG trilogy. I also agree that this one feels underwhelming compared to the others. I also felt that it went a completely different way than I thought it would go or even should go. That being said, I end up thinking about it quite a bit. It reads to me like a folk tale. And the way Collins fleshes out a severely backwards mindset, is quite genius. I understand his thought process so clearly, but even before he does anything “bad”, Snow still shows obvious signs of a flawed and unhealthy mentality. We learn that Snow and Katniss are very similar actually. They are motivated by the exact same thing. The only difference is that Katniss’s has been humbled regularly, and Snow… lands on top.
Did you ever upload mockinjay part 2?
Copy right strikes 😐 you’d have to VPN to the United States cause they block it from other countries. Sorry!
What I really love about this book is how it portrays so well the mind of someone who has fully bought into fascist propaganda. Snow believes people from the districts are barely human, animalistic, cruel monsters, but then he meets Lucy Gray and she is none of those things. And while some people might then start to reevaluate their beliefs, he instead jumps through hoops to justify liking her to himself and the Capitol “she’s one of the good ones! Better yet she isn’t *really* a district girl if you think about it! She’s not like *them*” and he buys into the narrative that he’s spun for himself. But then as soon as Lucy steps out of line for what he finds acceptable, shows evidence that she is her own person with her own backstory, conflicts, and interests, it doesn’t compute for him. He sees her as a prize to be won, an object to own. And as soon as she acts on her own autonomy he can’t handle it, he doubles down on his hatred of the district people, “Lucy Gray was actually a conniving little mastermind the whole time! She was never a good person! I should have never trusted someone from the districts.”
Lucy Gray wasn’t some poor innocent, defenseless girl who needed Snow to rescue and protect her, and she wasn’t a conniving backstabber luring Snow in so that she could manipulate him to her advantage. She was a person trying to survive insane circumstances, and to her at the start Snow made himself seem different from the rest of the Capitol, like he might actually care about her. As soon as she realized “oh this dude would turn on me in a second if it meant going back home” she booked it into the woods and then Snow had a full on meltdown firing his gun in all directions to try and kill her.
Snow goes back to the Capitol and has done exactly zero introspection. At every chance he had with Sejanus and Lucy Gray he doubled down, refused to reflect because, like so many who go down a fascist pipeline, admitting that his beliefs are wrong, that his government is in the wrong, would shatter his entire world view, the view he has of his father, his teachers, his neighbors. He would do a complete overhaul of his mindset, so like so many others, he plugs his ears, he jumps through hoops to rationalize, and he doubles down even harder on his beliefs.
To elaborate on the shattered worldview, he would have to acknowledge that the Games are evil, that the district children are just children who don’t deserve to die, that Sejanus was actually in the right and he also didn’t deserve to die, that people outside of himself are complex individuals with their own wants, needs, and desires, and that all these people he’s looked down on are just as human and just as intelligent as he is. And he couldn’t cope with that
You hit the nail on the head! At every turn where he could learn a lesson, he bends over backwards to rationalise his hard set world view. For example, even though he grew up poor, he has no empathy for the poverty in district 12 and sees himself as above them. And he only does the right thing because that’s what’s expected of him and will help him get ahead, not because that’s what he wants to do. Like being friendly with Sejanus. And when Sejanus is in trouble, he isn’t worried about him, only that he made the “mistake” of making everyone assume they were friends and now will be brought down with him.
You are so well-spoken, I loved reading this! You are so absolutely right- I was trying to figure out how to word this myself, and you did it perfect!
@@LibiB26 I also think that, while he does see himself as above other impoverished people, he does see it as a flaw in his life, and something to be ashamed of. It's not that he only applies those judgements to anyone but himself, but that he actually does believe being poor makes you less-than, and he does apply that to himself, so he hides it desperately and is terrified of anyone finding out the truth.
That's why I defend a character from another series who imprisoned someone who changed his views. Just because he changed his view on the love interest doesn't mean he changed his view about the people she belongs to
11:37 Lucy Gray didn’t rally the snakes by singing. She thinks that’s whats happening and so does the audience. But it was really Snow putting the handkerchief in the snake tank that makes them not attack her. But Snow doesn’t want Gaul to know that he cheated so he goes along with it. And Gaul is skeptical because she knows that those snakes wouldn’t respond to singing like that since she created them.
Someone may have already mentioned it but in the first movie, Snow asked the game maker, Seneca Crane, "Have you ever been out there? 10? 11? 12?" Crane replied, "Not personally, no." Snow says, "I have..." He goes on about underdogs, etc. A throw away line that becomes the foundation for this prequel.
To be fair to Suzanne about the whole "hand of the author thing," she did hint at there being something weird abt the first ever winner from district 12 bc in the HG books they mention the previous winners as Haymitch and "some girl." Which matches up nicely with the idea that they erased Lucy, and also gives the perspective that a lot of Snow's interactions with Katniss are shadowed by the ghost of Lucy.
EXACTLY this
Someone said once that Lucy Gray was a performer forced to fight and that Katniss was a fighter forced to perform and I think that put into perspective a lot of their distinct personalities but also seeing how they overlap so effortlessly.
The "me being wrong count" is the best part of this whole video.
My favourite thing about this book that unfortunately isnt in the movie is Snow's thoughts when he finds out about the erasure "It was just one more way to eliminate Lucy Gray from the world. The Capitol would forget her, the districts barely knew her, and district 12 had never accepted her as one of their own. In a few years, there would be a vague memory that a girl had once sung in the arena. And then that would be forgotten,too. Goodbye, Lucy Gray, We hardly knew you." The last line especially I love because despite the fact she's so important to Snows story we learn basically nothing about her life and who she is, she was simply a stepping stone in Snows climb to power.
the movie really stripped back quite a lot IMO. It was heavy handed overall, and the first part was poorly acted/written and awkward, and they also didn't do his possessiveness well. I'd have wished to see more of him believing he's owed her, and him wanting her without actually wanting who she is, wanting someone because they're completely dependent on him and he'll always be superior etc etc. The not showing that "her games" was erased is just extra on that.
My wish was to have the hunt in the forest to be more personal, to be more abot believing her life is his to decide over. Idk
@@BexsBoxofConfusion I understand why the movie struggled to show Snows possessiveness since it was mainly his inner monologue and hardly ever outright spoken that he saw her as a possession but I did like the hint to it during the reaping with Dean Highbotton saying the girl from district 12 belongs to Snow.
I find I often disagree with your conclusions but I thoroughly enjoy your reactions
so trueeee
Snow was ALWAYS the man he is in the other books. S.Collins almost got me on my first read-through of this book with the Lucy Grey and Sejanus stuff (obviously not at the ending), but when I went back through it a second time I realized that he has been the same FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOK. There was no possibility for a redemption arc because there was never anything redeemable about him. When I paid more attention to how he actually thought about the people around him, I realized the he looked down on ALL OF THEM and saw them only as tools for his own ambitions from the very beginning of the book. Even the ones he seemed to care about. As soon as they outlived their usefulness, they were no longer relevant to him and some lost their lives because of it. He only “liked” his cousin for her skills, that’s clear in Mocking Jay when you realize how separated his cousin becomes once her skills are no longer useful to him in the games. He tolerated his grandmother because without her he wouldn’t have made it out of the war alive, but in the book he only sees her presence as an annoying and only Tigris is caring for her as she nears the end of her life. He “cared” about Sejanus because being his friend meant a better shot at money, and when that was no longer possible, he betrayed him because that served Snow better. The only professor he “respected” was out of fear and he still used her as a puzzle piece in his plans, with the snakes and at the end knowing that getting back in her good graces meant upward mobility. And he only “loved” Lucy Grey because she meant glory in the first part of the book, comfort in the second, and safety in the third when he thought he had to run away because she knew how to survive in the woods. And when he was presented with the chance to go back, he took it with barely any hesitation.
Yessss, he’s always been self-serving. He is a selfish, selfish man who only sees others for what they can get him. I was very confused as to why Lucy Gray was with him.
100%!!! I replied to somebody else saying this as well, but Snow was born this way. It was always the path he was going to take, no matter the circumstances.
Yes! It was hard for me to see in the first read because he does some good things but he never does them for the right reasons. It’s only ever to serve him and his goals
What I love is that Tigress is proof that as much as we empathize with what they went through he didn’t have to end up the way he did, there were other options
Even Sejanus. He didn't even go through what the Snow's did, and his father is a terrible man, and yet Sejanus still turned out so empathetic and kind and soft-hearted.
I'm not trying to be mean, but there are several things in this book that I can't believe you seemed to have missed. How did you not realize that Snow was the one who reported Sejanus until after he was dead? From what I remember, the book was pretty obvious about that beforehand, including when he recorded their conversation. And likening Lucy Gray to a Disney princess for calming the snakes with her singing AFTER you'd already commented on the scene where he put the handkerchief into the snake tank, which was obviously the real reason the snakes were drawn to her scent? I feel like there were some parts of the book where you weren't paying much attention.
omg yes! while his other reviews missed some things that are mostly minor and can be easily dismissed as a bit of confusion, a lot of his perception of this book is just plain wrong. you can see the whole video he always theorizes about every male character doing something, except lucy gray, in his comments she's never causing or planning anything, he kinda fell right through snow's mind and followed him in his perception of lucy gray with zero critical thinking... sooo weird to watch tbh
I went into this book expecting not to like it because I didn't want a book that gave Snow a sad little backstory that explained why he becomes a horrendous dictator. But that's not what this book is. on the very first page, Snow describes Tigris, the person he's closest to and the only one he feels something at least close to love for, as someone who "invites abuse". He already is well on the way to become who he is. And we can't blame his past for that, bc again, we have Tigris, who went through basically the same things as him, and she instead became soft, and caring, and innovative. The book presents Snow with many, many moments where he could make decisions that would lead his life and personality to something completely different. And without fail, he picks the selfish options, the ones he thinks will benefit him the most, the ones that show his inability to trust people or care for them (even the people he claims to love, like Lucy, he only loves as long as they BELONG to him, are his property. He can only care for others as long as he sees them as an extention of himself), the ones that see the worst in humanity while glorifying himself.
I agree with feeling the hand of the author, but I still felt like the book offered valid explanations for them (like Snow getting the D12 tribute bc Highbottom wanted revenge). It def is my least fave compared to the other 3, but it def wasn't just a cash grab. It had a lot of things to say.
I agree! It 100% was not a cash grab. I don’t think we should put our expectations on an author to make the book we want (now THAT is fan service). I fully believe Suzanne would be the last author to do a cash grab.
I love that you noted how Tigris went through most of the same exact experience Snow did, but turned out completely different. I feel like something he missed in this video is that Snow is not just a product of his environment and circumstances, but that Collins clearly implies this is just who he is. Snow was BORN to be evil, this was always going to be his path, no matter the circumstances. From the beginning he's self-obsessed, egotistical, judgmental, and cruel. He wasn't conditioned to be like that, he just is.
only people with zero reading comprehension think that TBOSAS is meant to humanize snow.
i wholeheartedly agree. if Suzanne wanted a cashgrab she had a million other options, but instead she went with the idea that had the most to say. she said herself that she'd never add to this series unless she had something to say, and she absolutely did. you have to go into this book with the mindset that Snow is going to make himself look as good as possible, but the audience has the insight on who he becomes
Katniss mentions in The Hunger Games that there was a Victor before Haymitch for District 12. I’m on the side of loving this book. The over arching theme of “What is Human Nature?” I thought was really good. I see Katniss as the “ghost” of Lucy Gray haunting him. Katniss is the consequences of his actions that he thought he got away with. Lucy Gray and Katniss play out the way the Jabberjays were handled. “A creature the Capitol never intended to exist. They didn’t anticipate its will to live.”
Lucy Gray did not try to kill Snow at the end. He thought so, and since he was freaking out about Lucy Gray being on the loose he just jumped to conclusions. When he went back to get treated the doctor tells him that it was NOT a venomous snake and that it was common for those types of snakes to come out after heavy rain. When he realizes Lucy is gone, but that the only actual physical proof of him being a criminal are those weapons he sets on his path. He doesn't believe Lucy could put up a fight against him, not physically and surely not against society. She is the pariah, she is district and then not even that. He knows she will be forgotten and he only has to keep himself straight to keep history like he wants it. He freaks out, but then rationalizes that it's her word against his and she is nothing against that.
Snow was always Snow, faced again and again with options he always chose those that brought him back to the Capitol in order to restore his honor. He was blinded.
It’s hard to say honestly that was probably the closest snake around so she could not be picky. It’s supposed to be up in the air and there are reasons for it and against it.
This is how I interpreted that scene. Lots of coincidences that were likely not anything actually that he read too much into. I dislike that the movie made it seem more purposeful
2:47 But it's the whole point of the story of the characters. 😂 If you know the events of THG before reading this then obviously it will feel like, "Oh, so he just happened to get the girl from district 12?! Well, that's a coincidence". But it's literally the whole point of Snow's backstory and his relationship with District 12 which then informs his future relationship with Katniss. 🤦♀️ To imply that the author made a misstep or just wrote what she wanted to write for sh*ts and giggles is to completely miss the whole point of both stories and the point of releasing Snows backstory. 😅
2:44 oh no I love this because it's explained that it was highbottom to do it purposely since he wants him to loose (rightfully so imho)
The thing in the beginning of the video about it seeming like fan service that we're in district 12 again, they may be a little bit true, but another important fact is that it is mentioned at the beginning of the first hunger games book that there is another Victor from district 12 and it's kind of insinuated that no one remembers who they are because there's no name or gender mentioned so it could be Lucy they're mentioning:
"It is both a time for repentance and a time thanks, intones the mayor. Then he reads the list of past District 12 victors. In seventy- four years, we have had exactly two. Only one is still alive."
It's also important to note that, while yes in the movies and not AS much in the books, Snow has a particular hatred for District 12. Being in District 12 isn't just fan-service, but further explanation for why Snow hates them so much.
He’s get the girl from District 12 because she, on paper, has the worst odds and the man choosing who mentors who wants Snow to lose. Yes it’s story symmetry and clearly Suzanne wanted it that what but within the context and motivations of the characters it makes perfect sense.
Everytime you said just lucy I SCREAMED LUCY GRAY
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING!!!!
Same! Even when people call her that, she herself corrects them!
It’s heavily theorized that Katniss is a descendent of the covey (Maude Ivory most likely). It’s said that she has a good singing voice, as did her dad. Plus their name is Everdeen, two letters away from Evergreen. If that’s true, and a covey is her (great?) grandparent, it would make sense that her dad knew about the lake and the hut and brought her there, making the tie-in more believable
He is of course not the fully formed Snow from the trilogy in conniving and intellect, thats 75 years later. He perfects his craft of evil BY THAT time, not now. This was merely the beginning
Lucy Gray was named after the poem ‘Lucy Gray’ by William Wordsworth. The poem is about a young girl who gets lost in a storm and is never found again. However, there are some people who do not believe that she has died. They think that Lucy is alive, because they have often seen her walking and singing, and have spotted her footprints upon the snowy fields but these footprints lead nowhere. She sings a song and never looks behind. Her ghost haunts people and the possibility she’s still alive drives others to madness.
An excerpt from the poem:
At day-break on a hill they stood
That overlooked the moor;
And thence they saw the bridge of wood,
A furlong from their door.
They wept--and, turning homeward, cried,
"In heaven we all shall meet;"
--When in the snow the mother spied
The print of Lucy's feet.
Then downwards from the steep hill's edge
They tracked the footmarks small;
And through the broken hawthorn hedge,
And by the long stone-wall;
And then an open field they crossed:
The marks were still the same;
They tracked them on, nor ever lost;
And to the bridge they came.
They followed from the snowy bank
Those footmarks, one by one,
Into the middle of the plank;
And further there were none!
--Yet some maintain that to this day
She is a living child;
That you may see sweet Lucy Gray
Upon the lonesome wild.
O'er rough and smooth she trips along,
And never looks behind;
And sings a solitary song
That whistles in the wind.
Similarly, Coriolanus is a tragedy by William Shakespeare. The play is based on the life of the legendary Roman leader Gnaeus Marcius Coriolanus. In the play, Coriolanus makes his name defeating an enemy army and defending Rome. The Senate nominates him as consul but he cannot win the people's vote, so he is banished from Rome and allies with an old enemy. Faced with this opposition, Coriolanus flies into a rage and rails against the concept of popular rule. He compares allowing plebeians to have power over the patricians to allowing "crows to peck the eagles". Eventually, he is assassinated.
While a lot of Snows success in this book is luck, he does not see it that way. He sees it as “snow lands on top” and he was vile and cruel to get that way. Thats what changes. He realized the most he gives into his vile side the more things go his way. So he will stay that way, add in the power he eventually gets, and we have the president know we love to hate.
About the fan service while I do see what you are talking about I loved reading those parts. The hanging tree song being written about an execution he was there for. (You can see him in mockingjay movie correct the lyrics they changed). Him going crazy at the mockingjays and how he hates them mostly bc they are half Capitol and half district just like he made all the victors and Katniss. Some things are just thrown in like the Katniss plant but it was a little lol moment.
One of my favorite things actually about this book is the songs because you see 2 of them again with Katniss and it kind of shows a bit about how Lucy Gray was never fully forgotten like Snow wanted her to be. Also I think it's hilarious to think about how mad Snow must have been when he heard Katniss sing deep in the meadow or hanging tree.
He got the girl from 12 because she had the least chance to win and they wanted to eff him over.
Lots of people also surmised that Katniss' father is a descendant of one of the covey members as well. Maude Ivory, bc if her ability to hear a song once and commit it to memory.
I think this is my second favorite book. Being able to see his mindset, and what he does to change based on his past, oh I love it
I’ve been waiting for this reaction! Never clicked a video faster. So excited for you to watch the movie, keep it up!
I never really saw what happens as luck. He has so many chances throughout the book to show empathy and kindness, at the cost of his own benefit, and every time he chooses the opposite. I read it as Snow being hypervigilant of every action he can take and always being sure to pick the most beneficial one.
Something I like about tbosas is that it's written in third person versus the other three written in first person. It automatically disconnects us from Snow, keeping us at arms length and preventing us from connecting too closely with him. Such an interesting decision. Im curious which Suzanne Collins will do in the next book!
"I don't know who Voldemort is in this scenario."
Dr. Gaul.
More like Dumbledore because of the "plans" she's doing for coriolanus
Literally my first thought 😂
Or bellatrix lestrange
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! I loved watching all your predictions not come true ahahhaha this book is my favourite now but I will admit I had to read it once, watch the movie and then read it again to love it. I do now realize based on what you said that there are parts of the book she wrote to make fans happy (district 12 girls, hanging tree song, same hut etc) but I can't help and love it. I think it was fascinating to see what Snow deemed as "love" instead of possession. It also made me realize why he was so against Katniss. He once saw the power of a simple district member had for change. I am looking forward to your movie review!
And also it made me realized as much as fan service it could seem that it also explains why he is soooo infuriated by katnis. Just after the district 13 show her singinf the hanginf tree he lost his mind and bombed that district. Like an emotional response instead of a tactical one. I love those kind of similarities
Not the wrong predictions having an infinity symbol 😭😭
At some point, a man’s gotta give up
one of my FAVORITE little details in this book were the tesserae tile buttons. I always wondered why the offerings for extra name slips were called that. Turns out it’s just Snow still being bitter over a slight from when he was 18.
It took me like 2 or 3 re-reads to catch this and I was like “wait a sec…”
I still don't get it. Can you please explain
@@padalapallavi2011 In the beginning of the book, Tigris takes the tesserae (a geometrical pattern) off of some tiles on the walls of Snow’s bathroom to make him fancy-looking buttons for his shirt to wear to the ceremony at school. The other students notice that they look a little janky, and poke fun at him. Clearly, the memory became a reminder to him of the degrading things he was forced to do due to the poverty of the war with the districts. So, when he forces the districts to do something degrading (put their names in the Reaping more times in exchange for more food) so that *they* could escape *their* poverty, he decides to name it “tesserae” out of spite.
@handuo6301 😮😮😮 I forgot about that part! Thanks for explaining it
i’m vry excited for the film reaction but i also don’t want this hunger games reaction to end
Ok but think about Bella and Edward after this. THATS what I’m excited for
@@lynmoore_ Are you sure you want to do this to yourself????
@@lynmoore_THATS WHERE WE ARE GOING!?!?
@@lynmoore_ OMG OMG OMG
I like that Lucy wrote “The Hanging Tree” and it stuck around all those decades later for Katniss to sing it. As much as Snow tried to erase Lucy and what had happened, some things don’t go away.
19:53 His love for Lucy Gray was never normal, he was very possessive and about control. Just because he saved her, he thought he owned her. Every time Snow felt threatened, his first thought and his first reaction was self-serving, like when he killed the mayor's daughter or how he betrayed Sejanus but he always justified it as self-defence in his mind. So, as soon as he felt threatened by Lucy Gray, he didn't shy away from trying to kill her especially when he has a chance at going to district 2. He made that scenario in his mind that lucy gray betrayed him.
21:47 Lucy gray didn't try to kill him it was non-venomous snake, but Snow doesn't know that, he thinks that he has back to district to get treated.
She also wanted to check how he would've reacted if he felt threatened by her and we saw what happened after that.
That's the difference between lucy gray's self defence and Snow's self defence.
First of all, I want to say that I do love your commentary, I've been watching all of your HG reaction vids and they are great. I do feel like a lot of the decisions made in the writing of this book weren't made necessarily to compliment or "call back" the other three but were the establishing factors in every decision that Snow makes.
2:47 - It makes sense that he would be given the District 12 female character. It is explained that he is the least wealthy and nobody holds him in good favour so they put him at a disadvantage. It is also mentioned in the books that there is another district 12 victor but it is glossed over. It also would explain why Snow specifically hates District 12.
11:37 - She didn't actually rally the snakes, it is just part of the spectacle and Snow goes along so he isn't caught.
18:53 - Overall, I do feel that part of how Snow gets to where he is is luck, but it's kind of the point. Despite him being poor he is still upper class and still benefits systemically from his ancestors who rose to wealth upon the backs of the districts. We get to see how he is cunning and his intelligence contributed to his rise but he doesn't realize his luck because he just believes he is better than that. His own personal biases shape how we see him in this book compared to how Katniss depicts him in the others- of course, she's going to see him as so much scarier and smarter than he really is. Also, he is still young at this point and therefore he isn't the same person that we see in the other books- this is just the beginning.
On a similar note, Snow is an unreliable narrator and still a teen with trauma so he would have conflicting feelings on Lucy Gray. Personally, I don't think Snow ever actually loved Lucy. He loved the control he had over her and he loved what she could offer him.
I know that people didn't enjoy this book because of some of the lack of action and things being glossed over but I also think it is intentional when you take in Snow's self-absorbed character and the fact that he just lived through a war and a lot of things just don't phase him anymore. His anxiety throughout the book could also explain some of his odd decisions, priorities and interpretations.
I did find the gun scene confusing and the ending fairly underwhelming as well. I really liked the call to the Hanging Tree and the Mockingjay with Sejanus but other than that I feel like Suzanne definitely should've been more specific with the ending. There were also definitely points in the book only for the purpose of being references to the original like the common last names and finding the katniss by the water although I found it a bit charming. The book definitely grew on me the more I thought about it.
“Either that or Sejanus died and I don’t think Sejanus is gonna die” HONEY YOU GOT A BIG STORM COMIN
I love this book, but I thinking reading it Years after reading the original trilogy effected my experience. If you view this book as truly chronologically first in the whole story, I love that Katniss is his ultimate comuppets, a monster of his own long awaited making, practically made in a lab to drive him insane.
Your comment about disliking how much his luck was what ultimately afforded him success, over cunningness etc was what I LIKED about the book (alongside everything else you liked). I felt like it was a great parallel between the story of Katniss as so much of her entrance and survival in the games is luck. That’s what makes him so obsessed with her. That and her similarities to Lucy. So good
I’m so excited for this one! Lucy Gray is one of my fav characters of all time
Took me a while to figure out her character, which I talk about at the end but really ended up liking her!
I really love and relate to her, but it definitely takes a bit to get to know her!
I really enjoyed this video haha
I actually enjoyed the book quite a bit. I read it as a narrator that cant be trusted, all he shows us is how he sees things in his mind, not being accountable for the result of his choices or lack thereof. We really never get to know anyone as they are because we see them through Coriolanus ' eyes
15:18 People don’t like this book? I did. Am I the only one who does? 😭😭 Also, the whole thing of him winning by luck kind of fits. I mean, it's mentioned that Snow would poison people, and also poisoning himself. But he has an antidote, but not every antidote works. So he just gets lucky with life. Also, remember. Snow isn't much of a reliable narrator, so not everything is so cut throat. I personally like that the author put in some little hints of Katniss and stuff. Because to me. It's a way of saying, "this will haunt him forever." Like Lucy will haunt Snow forever and gets reminded of her through Katniss. And her name being Katniss, the mockingbird, and the fact that she sings one of her songs. It's like the past is coming to haunt him again. Idk. But I thought it was a good book.
It's very strange to me that people don't notice the parallels with the main series and Snow's unreliability as a narrator. It feels like some people either can't or simply refuse to see past the literal text.
I love this book and I super loved the philosophical aspect of it but I guess the biggest take away is that Snow is a suuuuuper unreliable narrator, no one ever suspected him, no one was ever out to get him, lucy gray never tried to kill him. his driving force is often the fact that he’s assuming everyone is going to treat him how he treats others and so he moves to prevent it, leading to him getting into binds. It’s an interesting book to speculate on and one can argue that having to speculate doesn’t make for a good book but I personally really loved it
Lucy Gray is (or is based off) Romani! They are known for their bright coloured clothing, preforming, singing and travelling! So her family being trapped into District 12, when she is from there, is a commentary on real life and the treatment of Roma in our society. Much like how the Seam was mainly Indigenous American, whilst the marketing district is mainly white people :] !
PS: She sung to the snakes cause that's how she calmed the snakes down back home, but really the snakes didn't attack her cause of the hankerchief (which you properly already know) (also she's a singer, so of course she's gonna sing.)
I totally agree with your final review. I enjoyed the book when I read it (though it was definitely slow at parts) but I left feeling like something was missing that connects the Snow from this book to the Snow we see later.
the movie's not well liked? I thought it was great, it was just missing snow's internal monologues.
I don’t think he doesn’t care what happens to Lucy Gray, I think he just knows he has the power in the situation. If he wanted he’d be able to find her and be a threat to her & the whole Covey. And he keeps that energy with Katniss, “I don’t want to kill you…”, just to continue exerting his power and control over people.
I actually enjoyed the movie. May the odds be ever in your favor on the feelings meter!
I was just looking for this reaction yesterday lol
I think this video is how I learn that not as many peopple enjoyed it as I thought 😢My takeaway was always that Snow as a child developed a surivial instinct that manifested into selfishness, and when presented multiple chances to redeem himself, he chose the villainous option under the guise and instinct of self preservation. Mirroring Lucy Gray and her survivalistic instincts, but I believe as the reader we are convinced that she is just morally right, therefore worthy of redemption and justifiable in all of her actions.
I think the whole series is a comment on narcissism & this is a segue into it. Being in Snow’s head is the polar opposite of being in Katniss’ head. We read Snow grab hold of those tendencies while we read Katniss having them perpetrated against her & tearing her down at every other turn from people like Gale, Snow himself & later Coin. We see the effects of that, in both books, personally in how it effects their self-worth & relationships with others and on a societal level. I found the juxtaposition actually quite fascinating.
For that reason, I liked the links to district 12 and the nod to the fact that there was a real underground movement with the Covey - almost like an underground church, and underground sense of hope, tenacity & vitality that would otherwise be completely lost. I like that it’s so hidden, but that the Easter eggs are all there for the taking. In that way, I don’t think it’s fan service. It’s creating theory and plausibility for everything to come. I think the book for the 50th Games won’t be from a GameMaker or a Mentor perspective, but probably from the perspective of someone in the district 12 that knows Haymitch. We need to see what that underground movement would have been like, knowing that it was there but also seeing how it could be sustained. It’s a political commentary - it’s not just story. And it’s relevant now, which is why she’s writing it.
Mentioning how much you love the handkerchief being dropped in the snake pit but then also completely miss why the snakes don't attack Lucy Gray is really funny
I was not crazy about Lucy Gray being from 12. I felt we didnt need the connection we couldve gotten another district pov. But i still liked the book. My least favorite but i liked it. Sejanus was one of my favorite characters. Much like the other books theres definitely a lot of social commentary. Corio is definitely a representation of a white supremacist. Sejanus i feel is sumbolic of being an immagrant and struggling with assimilation and keeping your identity
I truly believe the movie did a better job at showing how Snow slowly becomes who we know him to be than the book. There are smaller conversations added in the movie that to me really made a difference, like all his interactions with Gaul!
i think Suzanne Collins intentionally left out pieces of Snow that we wanted to see. she wanted to write a story that meant something, not a prequel to The Hunger Games. a story about how people can and will be manipulated by propaganda, and how a person can become abhorrent in the face of propaganda and a mentor that wants one thing. a follower. the book was never meant to be about Snow.
“I’ve never felt so much distrust in my entire life” that’s exactly how I felt when I read this book! 😂😂
My main hope for the Haymitch book is that the only legitimate description we have of it is that it takes place during his games. It’s not confirmed that it’s gonna be his pov/centered around him. I think it would be very interesting if she didn’t focus entirely on him (obviously she will have to include him in some capacity but still) and instead on a different facet of the games at the time. Maybe from another tribute who dies, a mentor, a spectator of the games, etc. Or even multiple povs. Who knows if that’s the route she chose to take, but I think there’s still some room for her to go a new direction. I’m cautiously optimistic😭
Cant wait to see what you think of the movie!
8:26 the way I just laughed out loud 😂 I finished the book a few weeks ago and have been looking forward to your review
I liked the movie a lot more than I was expecting - reading the songs in the book doesn't make them real for me, so seeing them performed made something click in my brain. Re-reading the book after seeing the film, I enjoyed it more than the first time.
she sang the song thinking it would help and that's what everyone else who was watching thought but the snakes just recognized her scent
I’ve really enjoyed watching you go through these.
I think s&n was a great book if your like me, who read the original a while ago and had zero expectations.
I think Susan really did a great job of telling a story of both how a man and a system can transform from ambitious to evil incarnate.
I disagree that this book had a lot of fan service. To me, it perfectly closes the gap why Snow never underestimates Katniss and seems a little paranoid about a girl from district 12. Donald expressed this so well in the moves, just by his leers and reactions alone. Another chance to kill the one who got away.
Idk how she did it but this book feel like it was written before the original 3, Suzanne is a genius
It was one of the most entertaining book reviews I’ve ever watched. I didn’t even care whether you liked the book or not; I had so much fun watching it that I completely forgot about the book itself. You’re amazing! Me being wrong count was just as amazing as you!
I also like the fact that later on, Snow was so pissed by Katniss and Peeta "cheating" and got Hamitch's whole family killed beacause he outsmarted the capitol in the arena but Snow was the first one to cheat in order to make his tribute win. After Lucy's games, (I believe) he also passed motions in order to prevent tributes from bringing dangerous tokens into the arena (like the gril from district one during Katniss' games who tried to bring a ring that could poison people) because that's what he did by giving his mother's powder compact to Lucy.
It’s how he adapts and reacts to the chances before him. That’s how he wins and how he stays in power
Like 3 minutes in, and I totally see what you mean about feeling the hand of the author when it comes to Snow getting the district 12 girl. 🤣 I felt the same way my first time reading, but I guess I just got used to it so it doesn't phase me anymore. Hearing ur reaction took me back
You definitely get used to it but when it’s announced it’s like….really? That’s what we’re doing? *sigh*
I keep hearing about the Red Rising series and see it on your bookshelf - I need a reel of you reviewing it!
I just saw all the other videos yesterday! I love this series
I read something like "SNOW was born evil and this book is not a justification of his future action." and I agree with that.
The fact that people jumped to the conclusion that this book was going to justify future actions showed how dumb non objective readers can be. There’s a difference between justifying and understanding.
I really enjoyed this book. It had been a while since I’d read the original Hunger Games books and I’d forgotten how much I enjoy Suzanne Collins as an author.
Regarding Snow getting the District 12 girl, I feel like it was a good choice because the 12 kids usually didn’t win and because it was a dig at Snow by Highbottom. And the juxtaposition of Snow falling for a girl from District 12 and then ultimately being defeated by another girl from District 12 is good because it shows that he never learned not to underestimate them.
Another thing I think was really important was that Lucy Gray didn’t die in the Games. If she had, it would have given Snow a reason to hate the Capitol. It could have radicalized him against the Capitol and then he wouldn’t have become the man he was in the original trilogy.
The world building was, again, incredible and so fun to read. It was really incredible to be able to see what kind of person Snow started as. He was so selfish the entire story and his idea of love was such a possessive one. I thoroughly enjoyed this book, though I was a bit disappointed in the ambiguity of the ending.
I agree with so much that you said. Can't wait to see what you think of movie
LOVE THIS!! Be warned the movie cuts out a lot of the book, but it’s all they could really fit for 2 hours and 45 minutes 😭
There's a quote from Brennan Lee Mulligan that this book makes me think of "People are not motivated by ideological codes. People are motivated by impulse and construct ideological codes to justify and rationalize what they were already going to do. An old professor of mine had this great thing. He said, “On the level of individuals and civilizations, ‘personality predates ideology’. Meaning before you were a fascist, you were a bully and an asshole."" Snow proves that throughout the entire book, it was never what HAPPENED to him that made him the way he was, he ALWAYS had a choice to be better, to be more empathetic, to treat people with decency, to make things better. But he never does, he only does "good" things for self-serving reasons, the Capitol's system didn't end up the way it was because of politics, but because Snow and those who came before him were classist, selfish assholes who believed their perceived excellence made them ABOVE caring about the humanity of the people they were exploiting.
And there are people all throughout this book that PROVE that Snow didn't have to be that way. Sejanus could have become as obsessed with status as Snow was and used his father's wealth to buy people's favour, he could have stopped having empathy for the other people from the districts and considered himself above them but he didn't. Tigress grew up in the exact same circumstances that Snow did, dead parents, traumatised from the war, fallen from grace and forced to hide their poverty from those around them, but she actually put herself through more pain and suffering so Coriolanus wouldn't have to and yet she still had sympathy and empathy for people from the districts. Even many of Snow's classmates don't seem self-aware enough to realise exactly how messed up what they're doing to the districts, they're too self-involved for it, it's why Dr Gaul singles him out: true evil requires awareness and intentionality.
This is one of the rare instances that I loved the movie more than the book.
Yes. I think Suzanne did SO MUCH fan service because she had fear about it coming a full decade later she needed to tie it to the original trilogy:
Snow getting the District 12 girl, Tigris being his cousin, all the academy characters except Seajanus being references to the capitol characters from the trilogy, Lucy Gray enjoyment with the Mockingjays, the little stains that suggests Maude Ivory being Katniss' parental grandmother, Lucy Gray "mentioning" Katniss in the lake, the hut bring the same as Katniss', Lucy being the author of the hanging tree, etc
I disagree. I like her writing and she wrote about the previous district 12 winner in the earlier trilogies. Good writers leave openings for themselves to revisit or leave as mysteries. Just because it was written after does not mean she never had thought of Snow’s backstory previously. I would be surprised if she hasn’t thought through every character’s backstory even if she knew she would never write a book about them.
Except, if you think about it chronologically Snow and Lucy Gray's relationship informs his reaction to Katniss later on and explains his reaction to her and Peeta's love story.
Gosh I've been enjoying this rollercoaster of your Hunger Games journey.
I just checked yesterday (and like every few days before that) for this reaction!! Finally yay!!
I loved your reaction to the book. I look forward to seeing what you think of the film. It's going to be fascinating.
I watched the film first and only then read the book. And of course that affects the reaction and the opinion. But for me, if after watching the film I have a desire to read the book, then it's a good film.
After reading the book I think it could have been even better, but unfortunately they can't release in cinemas a film that goes on for 4 hours).
And almost everyone who just started watching the film and just started reading the book thought that Lucy would be killed and it would break Snow's heart and make him as we know him. I think it's good that this is not the case and we see already from the first chapters that he already has the qualities of the Snow we know from the first books.
totally understand your review. i also did not love it in the first read, but the movie really sold it to me which is rare but soooooo nice when it happens! i think suzanne is brave for keeping the saga going, it's super hard to recreate something so big and well received as hunger games was at the time. even though i did not love this book, im excited to see more fenomenal world building in the next book!!!!
I think it’s best not to look at this as Snow’s rise to power but rather how his motivations and view of the world comes to be. The book is inspired by Thomas Hobbes’ Leviathan (it’s quoted at the beginning). Dr. Gaul is the representation of Hobbes’ views on humanity and the state of nature. The idea that when stripped of the confines of state power, human beings find themselves in a war of all against all. Dr. Gaul believes the Hunger Games is supposed to remind people of this idea (not as a reminder of the war, which is the official line). In part 2, Dr. Gaul is teaching him this. She sends him into the games to give him a taste of it, that anyone, including him is subject to this state of nature. He immediately is willing to kill a kid to save himself. Part 3 is the field study, it’s him finding out if Dr. Gaul is right. It’s throwing him out into the state of nature without Dr. Gaul’s interference. Particularly the scene in the Hob, when the lights go out and everyone starts fighting. Just like in the arena, it’s an instance of, in a moment of lawlessness, everyone turns on each other-including him. It’s proving that without control, humanity will descend into savagery and war. This all culminates in his rush off into the wilderness, the literal state of nature with Lucy Grey. This is the final demonstration of Dr. Gaul’s lesson- even when two people supposedly in love are willing to turn on each other, then it proves that there needs to be control. This leads to his viewpoint and the world he builds that is all about control over the population because if that control doesn’t exist, then society will fall apart. ( shout out to my brother with a philosophy degree in helping me write this comment 😆)
Yeah I didn’t really like the book. Watched the movie right after I finished the book. And didn’t really like that much either. Makes me nervouse about the haymitch book coming out next year.
Someone on the internet noticed that the 5th book coming up is begins at Haymitch's games but that doesn't mean he will be the main character
Lucy Gray Baird and Sejanus haunting Snow until his death and Katniss, their shadow, hunting him and causing his downfall is my kind of literature.
Rereading the original trilogy I realized how thought out the entirety of the story was from the beginning. Lucy is EVERYWHERE, filling the plot holes with information, which is so weird because her story was written later.
It's so clear that Snow's animosity and the weird, over the top hate he has for Katniss and Peeta specifically is because he sees Lucy and himself in them, if incorrectly.
He's paranoid that Katniss doesn't really love Peeta, that she's using him for her own gain. Like he's convinced Lucy did to him. Because he thinks the love Peeta has for Katniss is the same he once had for Lucy (it's not).
Who knows. Maybe when he saw the Mockingjay pin make an appearance he thought Katniss knew about Lucy. Maybe that's why he didn't believe her. So many things would have a different meaning to him with the context of Lucy.
He probably thought the Hanging Tree was Katniss making fun of him.
Even him refusing to call them rebels in his speech is reminiscent of Lucy Gray calling him one. I can't with how genius it all is.
You keep hoping he'll make the right choice, because it's right there, it's so easy to make. And instead he does the right thing and loathes it so much.
I'm reading this book right now (only because we're getting a fifth book) and I'm finding that I don't care as much as I did with OG three books also it was nice to have this as background noise while I read the book.
after seeing the movie, you HAVE to watch "the book Leo" videoessay about it! i particularly loved the movie and after seeing the video brought a whole other perspective onto it
I hope you do the twilight series. I just think it would be fun and a good contrast.
Remember that the Haymitch book is between this and Katniss. We may get some more on Snow in that book
I just finished this book about a month ago and had many of the same takeaways. I think I enjoyed it more because I liked seeing how Snow’s future self seemed to be come from a mixture of heightened ego, a “woe is me” mentality, and the teachings of Dr. Gaul. In particular without her, I’m not sure that he would have come up with so many future staples of the hunger games and the idea that the residents of the districts were both so far beneath those of the capital and also deserving of domination by the capital so there would be order. I find it mentally fascinating although I do also find the story to be mildly anemic because of the way the games themselves were handled. Then again at the time no one seems to care about the games nor to watch them, so maybe it makes sense 🤷🏾♀️
It says a lot about Snow that we learn almost nothing from other characters and we care very little about their deads because he doesn´t care about other people. A lot we learn about Sejanus or Lucy it´s when we, as readers, we reflect about their actions without Snow´s input.
Since it's a prequel of course you're gonna feel the hand of the author, she has to makes the rest make sense. Snow always had weird obsession with Katniss and district 12 in the trilogy. And now we know why.
Love your videos so much! I think you’re meant to walk away from the book knowing Snow is delulu and he doesn’t know if she lived or died. She does haunt him for the rest of his life, so when a character like Katniss comes into the picture, he wasn’t just trying to kill her - he let her be an underestimated liability to him because he was so distracted by his obsession.
When you remember that it's from his POV and that he's extremly biased a lot more make sense: glossing over the tributes, seeing Lucy Gray as innocent, Tigris and Sejanus too
I do think getting the perspective of “luck” being how Snow gets to power is very telling. he got lucky getting where he was, and had to increase his “cunning” (mostly through killing) in order to maintain that power. when he’s threatened, he kills. he did it with Lucy, he does it with the Dean, and he continues to. idk that’s something i felt.
Not knowing if Lucy Gray died or not matches her ballad so it does at least connect
Something that if you think on. Finnick says when he first started rising to power he was "more ruthless" in a way and he grows. Also if you think of how he reacted to Haymitch and his "bad behavior" in the arena vs Katniss. He becomes more cunning. He learned from the poisoning with his fingerprints to when he poisoned Highbottom. He learns and adapts. I do wish we had gotten more moments but I think seeing how he thinks on this book he's always possessive he's always self centered. The only exception is Tigris kinda. It's also why I think sunrise on the reaping is gonna be her perspective because she's a designer for the games that even Katniss kinda remembers her so I wonder if we are gonna see her disillusionment to her cousin. But I speculate she left after Finnicks games when she finds out he was selling the Victor's
I understand what you mean about the disconnect between BoSAS Snow and THG Snow, but I think the reason for that is simply due to age difference. We’re talking about a young man with a narcissistic mindset and cunning prowess, but he’s kinda just now learning that about himself. Young Snow is only starting to step into something that old Snow already acknowledges AND relies on as a crutch. Also, Snow’s life still has way more to it after BoSAS that the book really would not be able to flesh out. Rome didn’t fall in a day. In Snow’s case, Rome took around 30 years to become what it did in THG trilogy. I also agree that this one feels underwhelming compared to the others. I also felt that it went a completely different way than I thought it would go or even should go. That being said, I end up thinking about it quite a bit. It reads to me like a folk tale. And the way Collins fleshes out a severely backwards mindset, is quite genius. I understand his thought process so clearly, but even before he does anything “bad”, Snow still shows obvious signs of a flawed and unhealthy mentality. We learn that Snow and Katniss are very similar actually. They are motivated by the exact same thing. The only difference is that Katniss’s has been humbled regularly, and Snow… lands on top.
5th one 💀 and I got a haircut!! 😂😂 Great haircut!!