I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye COMPLETE FILM - Director's Cut
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2019
- Available on RUclips for free courtesy of the filmmaker, Jessica Van Der Wyngaard. She'd appreciate you saying "thanks" with a subscribe. Jessica and a dedicated team volunteered their labour and creativity to make this film possible in 2017 - 2018.
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SYNOPSIS: Joshua Harris is a former pastor and evangelical author of the 1997 best-seller "I Kissed Dating Goodbye." 20 years on, Harris faces his critics in a soul-searching examination of the lasting cultural effects caused by his conservative "rulebook" on sex and dating.
(c) DOCSology Pty Ltd, 2018. All Rights Reserved. No unauthorised copying is permitted. (Please don't steal from artists.)
Contact Jessica Van Der Wyngaard if you're interested in a creative collaboration exploring faith and life.
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Lmao if I married the first person I had a crush on I'd be married to Yoda💀
Mai Ceola Desire -
Horny you are. Make babies you must!
this makes me think so many inappropriate things about backpacks and mental levitation while upside down. I think I’ve been inside too long.
also if this was the rule I would probably be married to Christopher reeve as he appears in superman two.
And have baby yoda
God loves you Joshua Harris and I feel that you also deep in your heart love God despite the decision you made in your life! I will continue to pray for you, I felt your struggles and sincerity in this video.
For me it is odd to give a person at 22 that kind of power in questions like marriage and relationships....
I wonder if this obsession with the book also indicates a deeper problem inside a church, i.e. the absence of critical thinking skills. Which goes back to theological seminaries and colleges that unfortunately don't teach people to think but rather learn to guard their theology, the doctrine, sealed in fear and prejudice. It's the tendency to put teachers on pedestal and keep their opinions holy. Also teaching ambition and superiority at church. When will we learn that we cannot know everything? When will it be ok for Christians to say, "I'm really struggling to find answers on this issue."
Amen!!
Amen
Yessss
Amen to Infinity...well said...
...and when will we start to listen to our hearts and souls...instead of blind following the outer world 💛
I just love it when Josh said that people will not pick up a book that says, "you might not get married", "you might not have a great sex life". I stopped trusting in God for His love and interest in me because I did not see His promises being fulfilled: I followed formulas, paying my tithe and waiting for the blessings and did not see that happen.
I've seen and experienced first hand how purity culture really messes people up, especially the girls. In my time at an independent fundamental baptist church I NEVER saw a boy publicly shamed for pre-marital sex. One of the points made in this documentary is how the church makes pre-marital sex out to be more of a sin vs. other sins, which was drilled into me over and over again. Then imagine combining that with being told the sexual abuse I experienced at 7 years old was my fault...
Josh wears his watches really high on the wrist - this is my BIGGEST takeaway and I’m going to be mindful of this is in my own life from now on #guardyourwrist
Best comment
okay this one made me cackle
A: It is very strange that a book about relationships by a 21-year-old who was not married was taken so seriously. It is hard to blame him too much - most of us are very passionate but maybe not super nuanced or informed about our beliefs at that age.
B: I do not understand the "giving away pieces of your heart" thing. Every relationship you have with anyone - whether that's people you date, or friends, or relatives, or bosses - changes you a little. And if someone hurts you...sure, you carry those scars for a while, maybe forever. But our experiences also can make us better, help us grow. So if you date multiple people before you get married (whether you have sex with them or not), you will be a different person than you were before. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing - most of the time, you will have learned things about yourself and what you want or don't want in a relationship through those interactions.
When the book came out. I thought of someone who was 21 as old and wise. Sad but true.
Also when I dropped this line of thinking. I started dating and my heart grew with each man I dated. While I am no longer in love, with the men I dated. I love them. I have had my heart broken. All this has grown my heart, exponentially.
I remember reading Josh's book back in the day and thinking it was it was abit legalistic, I didn't take the book too seriously I realised it was just his opinion and his thoughts at the time, to this day I'm still a Christian, I follow Jesus Christ only.
My 34-year-old ex girlfriend was an evangelical who followed the purity movement. It was pretty extreme but at the time I respected her boundaries because I really liked her. Then I found out that her parents had been taking all her paychecks her whole life. She made like 5k a month and she was never allowed to have any savings but was allowed “spending money.” Keep in mind her parents both had full time jobs. I would see her mom coming home from shopping all the time and they were not conservative with their spending at all. She even told me behind their back that she didn’t agree with it. She also begged me not to tell them that she told me about all of that. She was terrified and said if her parents found out that she had told me that, she would face very severe consequences. I asked her why she let her mom control her life like that and her response was that they were her “god given authority” and that she was training for submission to her husband by submitting to her parents. She said it was so she would know how to properly submit to her husband when her dad “handed over his authority of her to the authority of her husband.” She was never allowed to kiss a guy or even hold his hand until she was married. During all her twenties she was never allowed to go out and even have lunch or dinner with a guy.
We started to argue over it because I told her it was not right. She would fire back at me saying I was “being spiritually immature” and “not a man.” Her mom also scolded me for seeing mental health counselor. She said I was not strong in my faith if I saw a counselor and that Christians aren’t supposed to have anxiety or depression. She would even tell my girlfriend right in front of me that she was concerned that I had to see counselor and that she deserved someone who was “strong like an oak tree.” Finally she dumped me (with her parents sitting on each side of her) because I was “lacking spiritual maturity” (because I didn’t agree all I that I stated above) and also because I didn’t get accepted in nursing school the first time I applied. Its been almost two years since the breakup and I still have a lot of anger and bitterness built up toward her family for how I was treated. They would put me down, scold me, and made me feel like I was a piece of shit even though I treated her well, was loyal to her, and respected all of her insane boundaries and beliefs. There is so much more to this story but I could only unpack so much. Her adopted sister ran away from home when she was 19. They never had any autonomy over their lives and her mom controlled everything aspect of her life.
Think of it like this. Better it end now than you living like that for the rest of your life. And also.....she may not be able to find a mate and pop out babies in time. And given the rest of her evangelical insane rules, she probably wouldn’t like that very much. I think she’ll go off the deep end at some point. Probably soon.
I am sorry you had to go through that though.
I'm so glad Joshua found his way out. I read I Kissed Dating Goodbye and it was just one of many factors that really fucked me up. I was raised in a conservative Christian home, and I absorbed a lot of harmful messages during that time. Eventually I found my way out of religion entirely, but it was painful and difficult. It felt like I was ripping out a part of my soul. It takes a lot of courage to do what Joshua did, and I have a lot of respect for his willingness to follow his conscience and his reason instead of his faith.
That takes a lot of courage to admit when you believe you're wrong and willing to own it so publicly. Ultimately, it's people's responsibility about what they decide to believe but the fact that he's willing to take ownership is really a strong indicator that at least he was coming from a good place.
My heart goes out to Joshua. Legalism damages people's lives but so does lawlessness...How desperately we need God's love and truth to guide us each day.
Thank you for this. I grew up reading and being taught this book. I am so proud that you are learning and growing. The level of distrust I had in myself transferred to everyone else as well.
I’m going through my own deconstruction, and it’s encouraging to see someone face their own faith and their own faults.
Thank you for doing this so publicly. There are people in your corner. Keep up the good work!
Watching someone be humble and brave enough to go on a journey like this is intense. It sounds dramatic, but it was an honor to watch this documentary. I could really see how much heart you put into this, like the scene where the woman asks if you feel like one of the people Jesus would have been angry at. I hope you find a lot of grace for yourself and really listen to the people who show you grace in this season, because I can see how much you really didn't mean to hurt people.
I think Christianity as a whole has an issue with wanting a set of rules to follow because it seems easier or like more of a guarantee than an actual relationship with God (like the wrestling that was mentioned), and that just tells me how afraid we are of making mistakes or being wrong. The fact that you are challenging that paradigm in yourself shows so much integrity, and it's something I'm trying to learn too. Thank you, Josh.
Thank you Josh for being open to revisiting your book and message. I have nothing but respect for how you have gracefully been willing to be self-critiqued. I’m sure this has helped many people - myself included.
I kissed dating goodbye helped me get out of a very unhealthy relationship and re-evaluate how I go about trying to find a mate. Although I did not follow all the advice to the letter, this book helped set me on a better path than the one I had been on.
Abstinence is long-term edging. Change my mind.
Relationships are decisions that you make daily to stay committed to another person.
This is really interesting, thank you so much for making it available to the public. That's very courageous.
I guess this was filmed before he divorced :( because his ex-wife looks very enthusiastic.
Yes it was.
I really appreciate the amount of work that went into putting this video together. Given Mr Harris' background, I admire the courage he had to embark on this journey, the open reception he has had to feedback, the insights of the interviewees, the humility to admit his shortcomings, the maturity to change his mind.
Plus, this video has helped me add some really awesome books to my list!
Just because something sells doesn't mean its giving people what they really need
I highly recommend Shameless by Nadia Bolz-Weber. It carries on the subject of purity culture within Christianity, stories from people, and is really uplifting in a lot of places.
Dang! There are a few exceptions of nice, forgiving, open-minded people but overall this comment section is the perfect demonstration of why both Evangelical Christianity and New Atheism are on the decline in America at the same time! Christians, if you want to know why everyone hates you, take a good look in the mirror! Atheists if you want to know why everyone thinks your an asshole, take a good look in the mirror!
Good documentary Josh, IDK if you even needed to apologize for anything, it's not necessarily your fault that the church took your words as gospel but clearly you were feeling convicted so I'm glad that you did. I know it took a lot of courage to come out and admit that you were wrong, and I respect that. I found the documentary very fascinating, I read your book when I was a teen, I remember there were parts that I agreed with then, and parts that I disagreed with. I also remember discussing the book in detail with my Youthgroup friends. Fortunately for me there really wasn't any pressure from anybody saying I couldn't have my disagreements. I've always thought dating was important, although I'm 26 and have never dated anybody lol. Not necessarily because of your book, more-so because I've been focused on my career and I'm not interested in joining the tinder circus.
As far as what you believe now in the context of Christianity, I honestly don't care because it doesn't affect my life whatsoever. You do you! (and that goes for everybody)
Exactly my th5
Sadly, I have gone through a similar deconstruction process after attending a very conservative school. But the answer is not to throw out a pure faith in Christ, it is to discern what things one may have added to the gospel message that God does not require. This can make the Christian life feel heavy and restrictive. Maybe Josh also will come back around having better discernment and strength to defend the gospel message.
I'm not angry at the church or God, but I no longer believe there is a God. I really tried for many years. I prayed and prayed, but none of it is remotely believable to me anymore. I'm glad it still brings comfort to you and others though.
Rebecca Maynard sometimes we can feel very distant from God if we are praying but not living according to what God requires, turning away from sin in our lives. From my own experience, having also been there, I know this to be true. This could be something that is blocking your way to believing.
I feel like some people blame Josh to absolve themselves of any responsibility. He wrote a book that strongly adhered to a subcultural phenomenon (the purity movement) and you bought into it. The question is why? He didn’t push his book on you. Others did that and you (presumably under varying degrees of manipulation) also did your part. So the real question for you is why did you feel the need to conform? What needs were you wanting to have met through strict compliance?
At the same time, I say lay a hefty amount of blame on your parents, pastors and youth pastors. They, the supposed mature, discerning adults who most directly had influence over you, fed you this crap and promoted the deeply subcultural to the universal. Josh was just one tool they used. They had other ones, too.
People grow, people change, people mature, people experience things and change their mind. It's a lifelong process. That's why although I think people should be held accountable for their views, past and present, they should not always be "cancelled" for them or condemned forever, as most of our views aren't forever. They depend on our circumstances, education, background, experiences, sometimes even our mood at that specific moment when we wrote that tweet, lol.
I think we the public are a bit to blame. Nothing should be taken as the gospel, as written in stone, except the Gospel. Even the gospel, the Lord ask us to discern between spirits. Nothing and no one should be blindly followed.
The book has some good points. The best ro do is to take what you need and spit the rest and do so for every piece of information you are fed in life.
Do I agree that dating nowadays has lost boundaries and people could use some? Yes, absolutely. Do I want to marry someone I never kissed? Hell no. Specially when the Bible specify no sex but Humans are the ones who added no kisses or any form of physical affection.
So awesome! More people need to do this with their old works and even what made them successful and deconstruct, learn, grow and be open to be wrong, corrected and have a change of theology.
My impression of the book when l first read it was that it was a very legalistic book.
I even went to some camps and youth ministries in which girls were separated from guys.
You were not allowed to talk to someone from the opposite sex for too long.
Thank God this legalistic culture is dying. It is time for us to go back to what God really wants for us.
Thank you for sharing this ,a thoughtful and thought provoking film , nice to see the other side of how the Author has matured and how he now sees things .
Really enjoying this Documentary. Thanks for posting it.
Thank you ❤
Amazing❤ I was totally enlightened
God bless you all. Thank you Mother Angelica has interceding
Great documentary! I remember being assigned I Kissed Dating Goodbye in my high school Bible class. Thanks, Josh, for being so humble as to revisit this. As a Christian apologist, it does make me so sad that you left the faith, though. What are your thoughts on the evidence for the resurrection? What are your reasons for walking away? Wish I could have a conversation with you.
I don't think he left Jesus at all. He just dumped the religion called Christianity.
@@swampratzozzle Acts 11:26- "And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians." Jesus cannot be separated from Christianity. "Christian" simply means to be a follower/disciple of Jesus.
@@jennifermiles2396 lol Not necessarily. Often the two are mutually exclusive
Jennifer Miles
There is no evidence for the resurrection though..as someone who has read a lot of Christian apologetics, I have not read one satisfying answer. It’s only good evidence for those who ALREADY believe.
A very few are really christians . He recognized that it was not
. There is not reasons for be a Christian, or your are or not. But the reasons can´t hold your existence.
1:12 reveals the real root of the issue. Evangelical Christianity is deeply rooted in fear. Fear of sex and fear of death. I’m glad Josh is growing out of that fear.
I admire Josh's vulnerability showing so many areas that his book may be wrong or have negatively affected people or culture. I can't imagine how painful it must be to evaluate how your own work (your baby) that you probably were once so proud of then be picked to pieces and criticized at every angle. I actually would have liked to see people who's lives were positively impacted by this book as well. I never completely understood or agreed with the whole courting concept but I like the idea of valuing holding back sex in a relationship until marriage. It was and still is important to me (I was a virgin when I married at age 26 in 2007) but I don't know if that should or could ever work for every Christian. I like the message in this documentary that it's not good to put too much emphasis on sex dos and dont's because it can overshadow Jesus' message of grace and His love. The last part of this film has left me a little confused as to what they were implying about sex and what should be ok etc. There were a lot of vague explanations. I admire the thoughtfulness and deep contemplation from Josh, he has gained my respect. He is clearly very intelligent. I am so sorry to hear that he said he is no longer a Christian. Josh, may God guide your journey.💛
The problem with zero sexual expression, even kissing is you switch off your erotic self and can't just flip the switch on when married that easily. Promotion of prudishness entails shame. This stays stuck to your sexuality and cripples it.
@@swampratzozzle
Well said!
Thank you for this bravery and honesty. ❤️
Josh i did felt guilty this whole time when i was in my previous relationship because we started early. And now i lost him because we have different views about dating. And now I could not find anyone like him anymore
Thea i am sorry to hear that but there are many great men out there (not perfect men) but great men nonetheless.
Thanks for your empathy. But im not searching for a man just to have one. I just love that person and i dont think i could find that love again.
Excellent documentary.
Great documentary.
"I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye...(and made MILLIONS of dollars because of it.)"
Alex Reid FYI - Josh Harris received NO MONEY. NOT A CENT. From I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye and as the independent filmmaker behind the project, I worked multiple jobs to pay for the making of the film which I now give away on RUclips for you to comment on here :)
@@DOCSology It gave him a platform for the millions of dollars that came later. As someone who has working in the Mega Church realm for a while I know how this works. But for sure I appreciate you working as hard as you did to make this film as slick as it is. He could have funded that though if he really cared and then some. The fees he charges for speaking engagements alone would have covered it.
Alex Reid haha! No arguments here. I wish he did help pay for it but he clearly knew how to work the mega church “system” better than I did! Lol
@@DOCSology Well props to you for getting this done and to such a high standard but a friend of yours he is not I'm afraid. For these guys it's about money and power and future earnings and not about Jesus. I could name a bunch of such "Pastors" but I won't. Thank you for documenting this though. Honestly...I'm not done with it yet so let me finish before my final thoughts. Yes I am impatient. Forgive me please ;-)
@@DOCSology Also 100% he didn't make NO money from his book.
When the woman said “ would I be one of the religious leaders Jesus would be angry with?” Referring to the Author of the book . Ummmmmm.. YES!!!!! 1000 times over. How can you even question that?
Courtship might only work in practice if you are in a community that practices it and has an adequate number of single in it.
The reality is that the church's have largely ignored single ministry, they have not a thought out practice in this area
“I just wrote about what I thought the Bible said. You don’t have to believe the Bible, but...”
Dude, didn’t we just have this talk about how your thoughts and your book are not the Bible? 😂
Oh Thomas Urmstadtt! I'm a fan of his website
I get where you are coming from Josh. I'm wrestling with a lot of these man made doctrines while trying not to throw out God's ways. Will be praying for God to lead you and other Christian's closer to him with these questions and issues. 🙏
I like pastor Curtis Allen! He spoke truth.
What truth? We are sinners? Lol
This whole purity crap is a shame. The book is just a part of this movement. It is like :"If your a virgin, than your worthy. When your not a virgin anymore, your only chance to be worthy is if you are married . That compensates the missing virginity"
That is so twisted...
Christ didn’t value women less if they had had sex, thus we shouldn’t. A woman’s value is not contained in her vagina, it comes from her soul.
01:09:55
Respect yourself and in turn, you will have the knowledge in how to respect others.
"People who don't want you to think are never your friend."
I read "el y ella" en español, really help me and my husband my boyfriend at the time, I think it depends on the season you are, I loved this book and I'll still recommended it, one thing we can't continue doing in church is fixing and building Christian's as robots, everybody is different and everyone should ask the Lord what's the best way to praise the Lord with your life. Thank you Joshua for recognizing your mistakes, but I think blaming others for your bad choices is not the answer, many people in church put it on their leaders and pastors, we all are to blame in this purity culture, and rethink how we can approach the new generation who wants to served the Lord.
It's funny how people follow the kissing advised, I kissed my boyfriend before marriage, as the church we need to really stop following pastors and other Christians as idols, the fact that people follow every advised of the book says how the church needs to stop being fans, the Lord has a design for each one of his children, this is something that I understood better when I became a mother.
also in the book Not Even A Hint which might relate to "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", this is just not a church problem but even classmate problem, peer problem, and work problem. students under the age of 18 have technical devices that they use to view much older material. These devices bought by their family members may not even have blocks on them, and even if there is a block I remember back in the day when blocking channels was a thing, people knew how to hack through them. Even today, many school children know how to hack or unhack from something. Some children under the age of 12 who have already won awards for learning and building such technology on the internet, helping their own families fix their computers. Strange to have an underage child help their adult parent or family member get out of a virus on a computer. Especially when viruses can show pornography. So I feel pornography is a huge risk for anyone now a days no matter how old they are, and sometimes it really does work when talking to the opposite gender. I remember when I spoke to women about this when I was a teen, it only got me more into trouble. Especially if women support abortion. Abortion is just one of the many problems. Look into everything from before 1970. Also in the book, "The Anti-Mary Exposed: Rescuing the Culture from Toxic Femininity" I have received so much help from men in the professional care and openness in a professional building, some volunteered (with financial donation through organizations) and some through my insurance to help me through. I do speak to both women AND men now. I cannot speak to women who will not recommend men to help nor do I speak to men who will not recommend women will help. So we all have to work together. I do notice that there is also temptation when someone opens up to anyone of the same sex or opposite sex (gender) and can effect the person. I just turned 35 this year. My mentality level and image is much younger than I am. Many people still think I am under 20 and some if they only go by my hair, they think I am over the age of 40. I'm starting to think there are a lot more problems around the world that need to be fixed if people have image problems and mentality level issues. I had to grow up much early in life before the age of 8, already in charge of my mother's hospital and medical work as she had no medical family member help. So because of me being underage I was in foster care, thank God not through CPS but I was able to also take charge of that communicating with my parish/archdiocese and Church. If it wasn't for the Church I do not know where I would be today maybe not here on this earth. But thank God. I was with good families, which they instilled in me the Faith and kept me away from sex and violence, so they thought. No matter where you go, it could be a public gathering, out of town, near an amusement park like Disney, etc. They can be very subliminal for children and some adults who never had sex before marriage and knew sex as popular or entertaining may not know of it. They didn't realize the cartoons had sexual messages, they didn't notice sleep overs, even for the same gender (two girls both under the age of teens even) as I was only 8 years old at the time before 1994, children would like to mimic what they saw on television, whether it had been from tv shows like Saved By The Bell, BayWatch, 90210. Children are able put two and two together. I was once that child and I am a woman. Adults need to address this to the children's parents. Other adults in charge of the children for school activities need to tell the children to speak to their parents about their temptations. Its how our Church has always taught. But there can be so much more problems inside the home than even inside of a Church. People come to a Church to pray to stop and end their temptations and at times even pray for miraculous cures to thank and worship God. *Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ*
I've walked into a family's home, most with just the husband and wife and the husband's parents in one room and they would talk about adult things who to avoid because they helped volunteering and working for underprivileged people or what funeral they had to go to, what time the college kids had to go to school, other adult conversations, etc.
Being Christian doesn't mean we should be shut from sexuality, but we should be aware and on the look out to avoid such sexual sins. I noticed that me and this family had something in common, that we all wanted families close, and that I wanted my partner of 8 years (someone of the opposite sex/gender) and them to be friends. But that quickly changed when the husband had really bad side effects on his pain medication after back surgery for preventing more surgeries. Which I think could have been from his medication, the husband told me he wanted to be my personal friend. I said no, I told him I would not be his friend nor would I ever want to be alone with him without his wife and family around. He made it even more uncomfortable mentioning about how his wife found out about his friends getting involved in wife swapping and she was left out. Making me think he was part of it and not her. I told him, as we are Christians we should never be part of any such thing, and I know I didn't know better at the time because I was going through problems at home. We would talk to each other about Faith but also how a men's group and even women's group for myself always help. I don't discourage that at all. He then asked me to a sponsor for his daughter's confirmation. I told him he has to speak to his wife about it and I would address it to his wife. He also mentioned other inappropriate things after and it has caused red flags for me to keep away from them on a personal level. The last thing I told his wife on the way out of shopping at a store thinking I would never see her again because my life was different at the time because of covid, I told her husband needed to see a psychologist. I do not want to be involved in something as I am an adult and from the time before I was even a teenager myself I have suffered through the images of pornography, finding vhs tapes in local shoppes back in the 80s and 90s and even before or around the years 2001-2004. And even finding such adult images in magazines even inside of homes. Families are finally trying to understand that these kinds of things should not be around a home with underage children, and hopefully no longer around people who are even of the right age. None of the sexualized adult images and sometimes even stories written in novels are not good for anyone if it causes such serious temptations to share with themselves or anyone else. Sorry for the long comment, but I hope that Josh can address both books, "Not Even A Hint" and I'm glad about his statement for his other book, "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" which I have not read. Hopefully this will shed light on helping families avoid all sexual temptations especially if they have children around. Thank you.
thank you for sharing the books that changed your mind. Amazing books to read. Beautiful.
Almost teared at the end. God's will was done that we may truly see the truth in a way we couldn't have.
Ayeee my aunt and uncle are in this!
Where? Time stamp, description? That's so cool!
Shell Eee the people interviewed!
I have so much more respect for Josh Harris now.
Became senior pastor of a megachurch based on what?
Not the Bible for sure
God bless
1:02:32 Pro tip for EVERYONE: Read "Theology of the Body For Beginners." It makes sense of everything discussed in this video.
thanks... i watch this movie quite a bit ! i feel this is symptomatic in church ! i feel chilled bout dating non- Christians .
The Bible talks about being equally yoked. He is going through a questioning but don't let that turn you from.God
Women are hurt by sleeping with men and actually release a bonding hormone biologically. Once they are hurt. Bonding becomes very difficult. Pray about what you are saying.
@@tashyam7736 dating ... -- I will not be intentional about dating a "church" girl!! My identity is secure in Christ and what the cross is ! I have never and will never - sleep around...
but church does a fantastic job about --- Dont do.... [instead of...] I am with you along the path--- Dating and attraction should be based on -- getting prepared to marry someone and character qualities of a person. and the movie never talks about trust -- an imp part of a relationship
Wow. Not sure what else to say. Oh Great God!!
24:32-25:43 this applies to ALL christian books...
It's amazing how the documentary sidesteps the damage the book did to the LGTBQ community and how Josh never really blatantly addresses how those people are to deal with the church's biases against them. Instead, for a documentary that is supposed to be his "confessionaL' about the flaws of his book, it spends much of its time interviewing other Christian authors who at least validate part of his book, while pointing out its shortcomings. This documentary seems more of a PR stunt instead of a way to address the real damage of his book.
He has an IG post about it
instagram.com/p/B0ZBrNLH2sl/?hl=en
@A P Exactly. And so the church should have NO VOTING OPINION on it either. If it doesn't exist for YOU it doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the world, just not in your world. There should be no legislation that speaks against it, and there should certainly be absolutely no Christian judges, teachers, doctors engaging in conversation about it. It isn't for YOU to discuss - ever.
46:00 bam!!! There was the issue. You what's interesting, I would think that this revelation would have drawn him closer to God because that's what it's about honoring God, not about what we can get.....Well, keep him and his family in your prayers.
Why does Joshua have to justify himself? People make mistakes. A book is only an opinion of a person. Who makes this book as the law, it's his/her own fault. Just because a Christian exaggerates the one or another point, it does not mean that everything is wrong about his book. And if people make mistakes, it does not have anything to do with God's truth. Yes, Jesus is bigger!
25:33
Because your mistakes can hurt people and when you hurt someone, intentionally or not, the decent thing to do is apologize.
Do you not apologize when you bump into someone by accident?
We are not from this world only passing thru! I read the book years ago and lived a life of celibacy not cause I felt it was supposed to do it that way but to protect myself against many even in the church that see you only for sex!! It has been scientifically been proven sex out of marriage.....be it in any form, thru abuse, or as some of us our only way of feeling loved from a very unhealthy childhood, sex is a way for us to feel loved and naturally hurt again over and over!! It has taken me many years, two marriages, to see we are not here for ‘this’ life but for the life to come, eternally! No matter how anyone views this documentary understand many of us have lived both ways and it always comes back to the truth!! Go have sex with multiple partners but trust and know u one day will struggle because of it! Gods word is Gods word and He created sex fore marriage!! The marriage bed is undefined anything outside of that will be consequences!! Just my own opinion and from my own walk! I love being single now but does that mean if I were to meet someone that simulates my life at my age now...I am not pushing it aside but I have come to a place in my life the ‘world’ will never understand! My bridegroom is my man and it’s not here I wait for satisfaction but when we are out of this world!!
I’ll add too....that women are PORTALS of creation through which LIFE comes into form. THIS...power is threatening to men hence why they would need to dominate, control women...to avoid being under the “control” of a woman’s innate power.
not one of these folks on either side of the aisle give a hoot about the intellectually biblical claim of "Without me you can do nothing ( righteous)"....the entire idea that the lofty ideals of even the 'sermon on the mount' would and could never be done, whatever it looks like externally, without the comforter...sad. Inspite of the fact that this chap seems like a very nice guy this would be reminiscent of if the apostle Peter writing a treatise of every reason and manoeuvre to avoid denying his master but after failing miserably instead of realising the empowerment from that commodity called grace, turning around, shooting and attacking the ideal itself.
its another thing altogether that this 'goal' itself is unsourced in the texts, and it ignores the issues of 'heart impurity' so to speak where a persistent look or thought itself is 'impure' and confines the ideal to external visiblr acts....defeats the context. atleast be intellectually honest
i like all these people with critical thinking skills can barely compute to save their lives. a society rife with aggrandised innumeracy.
I think he is very "christian", in the best sense of the word.
While I respect josh's humility in exploring his critics,, I read the book as a teen, I am in my 30s now and I LOVE the book. It gave me and others a very romantic, special path for relationships . I am so happy to only belong to one person my whole life. Josh felt like he was a peer of my generation. Sure it didn't work for everyone but for some people it gave them an amazing life. I'm sad he has pulled it from sale and anyone who is young Christian , I recommend giving it a read. Don't write it off totally!
But it is great to see josh having mature reflections on his position
I’m glad I was a virgin but the church around me put the most unreal shame on me when I met my husband at 18. We began dating. That was a huge no snd our leadership roles were taken from us. We were constantly called on and shame. We did some heavy petting but essentially I was a virgin. When you tell someone when they can and can’t date you force them to feel guilty for wanting to spend time with a guy your falling for. He was my 2nd boyfriend and knew he was the one. You must be older. You must Court not date. Here you are shamed all the time it scars your soul. I almost committed suicidal thinking I was bad. I was dirty for my desires. I didn’t love God because I wouldn’t break up with the man of my dreams will always have PTSD from this.
“Let God be true though every one were a liar” Rom 3:4
And, your point is? There's no point just dropping a Bible verse with no explanation and then running away...
@@virtualcolditz Yeah, I'm a Christian and even I don't drop verses without explanation
Josh seems to have just lived out the sexual revolution. Going from a time when the main standard wasn't that far from the religious sentiments of his book, to the secular, Freudian and f960s free-love love the 'one you're with', attitude. Contraception and abortion gave rise to the ability to sleep around.
Several times the video mentioned his book caused harm, but didn't really go beyond that general statement.
Joshua, please stop blaming yourself. Grace is where you and your family lives fall. God looks at the heart but men look at the outward appearance. I believe your heart was in the right place. Have grace on yourself. :)
30:58
48:50
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But biblically, it is right to save sex for marriage.
Josh God is a God of grace and mercy. Yes we will fail and sin and not live in perfect purity that God called us but that is also the reason why God Himself died for us. God is the strength of our heart and our portion forever even though our heart and our flesh fail
The book was his personal journey/advice and although flawed to the book's credit, it shared biblical principles to keep individuals from descent into sexual depravity. I therefore don't understand the prolonged fanfare of apology. Or perhaps I do understand... and what we're seeing as always is the world rejecting not Josh but the biblical principals.
I also wander what the purpose of dragging out the discourse on this book is for the filmmakers and Josh. Has this become a vanity project of sorts? It often seem too many may have puffed Josh up in pride for having written a best seller, rather than regularly point him to the Great Redeemer. Praying right now for Josh's family to reunite!
Joshua remembers the time, what made him write the book, he remembers the place he knelt and asked God to help him write the book. ( I k d g)
Josh , if God helped you to write the book , then who helped you to reverse it ???.
Well, the tree is still known by its fruit....
But he didn't reverse it. It's more nuanced than that. He is exploring it and its impact on people in real life. There is also the possibility that He honestly believe the Lord was helping when the Lord didn't inspire all the details in the book. Let's not take ny writings for scripture.
He really looks like Justin Timberlake.
What a weak, self-serving non-apology for the profound harms this book and its relentless promotion caused. From Shannon at the beginning suggesting the point is to tell people it’s okay for them to feel hurt (wtaf like they need Josh’s permission?) to Josh at the end saying he can’t conclude that the book was good or bad because things are complex. The lack of real inclusion of biological science is also just so wack. Wow.
Promotion of this book, coupled with controlling requirements to "submission to your spiritual leader" are what caused the harm. Dumbass books abound and get put on the shelf all the time.
I think you missed the whole point of this documentary there Kathy Newman. This documentary was about a religious book and the purity movement which had nothing to do with science. Psychological discussions surrounding relationships, dating, and sex are readily available online, and guess what the science concludes; relationships are complex! Just because some people were hurt by his book doesn't change the fact that many people were helped by it, not to mention it's not necessarily his fault that the entire church as well as the individual readers took the words of an unqualified 21 year old as gospel rather than thinking critically for themselves! Even still Josh apologized for his role and took the time to scratch the surface and explain that these topics are complex and that the ideas of the purity moment don't work for everyone. Believe it or not, purity culture is still very much a thing in the evangelical church and people are still being hurt by it. I think you also misinterpreted Shannon's words and the whole context of that conversation.
I'm still in shock! I appreciated Josh and I assume he got a huge responsibility to be against the flow being so young... but all the romantic and different experiences in relationships written in the book-shaped the view of this area in a whole generation..I know there is criticism, but still, people who appreciated it. What goes beyond is now the position Joshua took, it seems he lived under the law of fear..that made him take the decision to neglect the Christianity. We will know the people by their fruits and it's sad because I saw in her daughter's profile she belongs to the group of lgtbi and now I understand why now he is supporting the group that has been a real weapon to defend the moral of behavior of the society
I'm not getting how and why someone would change the way they think when God was the one who told him to write the book. I don't exactly think Moses would change his mind about Torah.
How is the "true love waits" commitment about "control"? It seems like it was just motivated by a desire for an optimally enjoyable and functional marriage and practicing pious discipline that honors God
Because it ignores the nuances of real, human relationships on this earth. I remember the movement as boiling everything down to remaining a virgin until marriage. But then if you wind up divorced or widowed, you're no longer a virgin. So then, you're looking for another relationship, and now you're not a virgin anymore. I think that's what blew the lid off the movement. When the kids that took the pledge started having relationship problems and getting divorced, the overly simplistic nature of the philosophy became glaringly impossible to ignore.
Keep in mind that the author of this book is not and was not a Christian.
Apologia5 Yes he was a Christian. And he’s not anymore. Which is awesome!
@@XxAbraxasmeadowxX Nope. If you are a Christian you cannot lose your salvation. Why would God save a person to only go ahead and lose them. If you can't earn your salvation then you can't do anything to un-earn it. Just because someone PROFESSES to be a Christian doesn't mean they truly are.
Lol
@@Apologia5 I am sorry to tell you, but you know is not true, Free will (As a church kid I invited you with love to keep this in mind: every one of us is in danger of falling from the path, YOU CAN know the true an still make the wrong choice)
@@solcitlalliraygozaramirez7923 That's just not true. If you TRULY know Christ, then you will not deny Him. Of course Christians can stumble into sin and go through a season of doubt and trials but to flat out reject Christ is a whole other thing. Another example from scripture that we have is in Matthew when many approached Jesus saying "Lord lord! We have cast our demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name" and then Jesus says to them "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I NEVER KNEW YOU." And these people were calling him Lord! They thought that they were saved but they were not. If you are born again you are part of the flock, a sheep. And God tells us in His word that he will not lose one of his sheep. Harris "walked away" therefore he was never one of the sheep.
the book is just perfect and divinely inspired
He smiles too much.
Joshua Harris did not talk about the high divorce rate within evangelical Christianity. The sexual purity doctrines leads to a disappointing marriage ending in divorce, how many conservative Christians say, “I deserve better.” God gave me a wife, it was okay, after the evangelical church promised me a red Ferrari, I got a banal sedan from God. Marriage is a dying institution, half of first marriages end in divorce, 66% of second marriages end in divorce, 75% of third marriages end in divorce. The Evangelical church or the conservative Christian church, is pushing out a broken product, the product of marriage. With no fault divorce, marriage is a scam for men. Marriage rates continue to fall in all western countries, it is time society kiss marriage goodbye.
So what other Biblical standards, truths, mandates,criteria, commandments are you going to do documentaries on so people can “vote” on them? No, Josh’s interpretation was not exactly Biblical. He was 21years old and wrote a book and became a millionaire. This is SOOOOO absurd that these people took a book and molded their life EXACTLY to it’s standards. These people are utterly foolish and don’t have enough sense to be embarrassed by what they are saying! They all sound toooo immature and naive to even court or date. I’m afraid for them to be in a bookstore library, or even the grocery check out line alone. They might read something and base their life in it They were to maybe buy and read the book--then decide on their own what is right or for them accordingly to scripture. This is crazy to blame an author! I just honk it is just more publicity for Josh Harris and likely has another agenda!!
Ridiculous!! Maranatha!
The book was literally marketed to young teens. Did YOU have perfect judgment and discernment when you were 15?
I'm about as impressed with this "film" as I am with Josh Harris' book.
In brief, the film and the book both make some really good points, some really bad points, and a bell-curve of points in between.
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The wisdom and discernment I had previously gleaned-in large part from my own personal study of the biblical literature (the Bible)-guided me when I was a teen reading Harris' book. That same wisdom and discernment has done the same for me while watching this film.
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The average person, to a large degree, is an unreasoning idiot. Only those who desperately and intentionally seek wisdom and discernment as a way of life will avoid a majority of the inane doctrines/teachings thrown at them while in this world.
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To the unreasoning idiots: Sucks to be you. Hope you get serious about seeking wisdom and discernment. You're screwed without them.
I don't see what the problem is with the book. What people are talking about is how they interpreted the book not the contents of the book itself. With a piece of literature you will always have people interpreting it in different ways, and often times with spiritual things it is our carnal mind that prevents us from having a proper, balanced perspective. One of the interviewees talked about the book offering a 'money back guarantee' but where did the book say this?? If the book doesn't say this then her mess-ups based on this idea cannot be attributed to the Author.
Joshua, I think there is a great danger that you are way, way overthinking this and becoming confused by people whose relationship problems can probably be attributed to many other factors which they would obviously not share with you. Please do not allow their engineered testimonials to skew your view on your work or even your view of what God was doing in your life at the time when you wrote the books.
Your books have fallen prey to a hyper sexualised and hyper secularised society. That is not a fault of the book/s, it’s a fault of society! Nobody was hurt by your book Joshua, that’s almost you thinking too much of the book, your book isn’t big enough to actually hurt anyone, people get hurt because of the decisions they and others make.
Whoever filmed these interviews ... oiy ... horrendous. You had the cameras but you couldn’t abide by basic rules of filmography? Would’ve added more weight and gravity to such a tense topic.
There is nothing wrong with encouraging purity and we live a society which validates instant gratification. Yes Joshua could be guilty of being legalistic but the main premise of his argument came from a good place; in fact we don't have enough people teaching people to be healthy in heart and mind. To make choices based on the right motivation but encourages people to be driven by lust. To re-evaluate your journey is perfectly healthy but the instruments used to measure is where Joshua went wrong. Joshua used popular opinion to gage the truth instead of using of the word of God. As a Christian leader and writer the Bible is the standard by which we live our lives by. This assessment lacks sound Christian ethos but is filled with persuasive words of mans wisdom. He seems to be ambushed by the opinion of the majority which leads me to question his convictions to begin with. I HOPE YOU FIND YOUR WAY SIR...ANYTHING VOID OF CHRIST IS VOID OF TRUTH.
As a Christian, I personally believe Kiss Dating Goodbye is Biblical, aligning to God's design and purpose for a relationship between a man and woman. Even before the book, I and my church are already practicing/teaching the principles taught in the book because again, these principles are Bible based. I was thinking that maybe the reason why other Christians who have said that the book did harm to them is because maybe they had found it legalistic, extreme, and impossible in some way or another. I think one will find it legalistic if one's motivation in doing is not centered in Christ. One will find it extreme if one does not understand the holiness of God and his calling for his children to be holy. One will find it impossible if one forgets to rely on the Holy Spirit and God's grace. The sad part was that the Purity Movement that followed from this book centered their message not in Christ. Purity is just one of the many areas in a believer's life that is sanctified in Christ in his/her pursuit of holiness. A Christian's commitment to do so comes from a heart of devotion, love, holy fear and faith in God. Otherwise, we will be like the Pharisees who have the law and practiced the law but have missed the whole point of the law. God bless:)
This was hard to watch as a disciple & evangelist, knowing that Josh has now abandon the Lord and his family. However, I read his book (long ago) and as with all works of men, Scripture is true, but the rest is opinion (some good, some not). I wanted to have an honest analysis of his renouncing much he wrote. At the start, I worship a God of grace and forgiveness. Though he didn't say it outright, he seems to justifying sin and the absence of purity (unbiblical - Heb.12:14, 1Cor.6:9-11). We can say that fornication is no different than other sins, but the casual worldliness and immorality of American Christendom has show tolerance to continuing in sin (of all sorts), wherein "grace" is "justifying sin," rather than the sinner. Dating is often (but not always) a "gateway drug" to sex. Moreover, the Bible makes this sin different in effect (cf. 1Cor.6:15-18). However, when people take a man's words as absolute as God's, they're "teaching as doctrine the traditions of men" (Mt.15). The absence of marriage among that generation isn't just in Christians, but across all spectrum. The hurt of casually broken relationship is a problem (as the WP gal spoke of PTSD). It also seems he relies more on secular "experts" rather than Scripture. Marriage isn't for everyone in the Bible, but generally "it's not good that man should be alone." Most (but not all) people do better with others, than by themselves. I appreciated the woman portraying the "reset" of repentance, wherein we recommit ourselves in way we haven't done. Ultimately, it seems the biggest problem wasn't the book, but people's view of it. 1Jn.4:1: "Test the spirits..." means measure what men say against what God says. Sadly, they do the same thing with pastors as the only source of Scripture, instead of opening the Bible for themselves to hear what God is saying.
Joshua has now given up Christianity. Good for him.
Interesting to see points of view...in light of recent happenings, Josh probably wasnt even truly saved when he wrote this book. You dont just drop Jesus like that when He has changed your heart and really saved you. God holds us, not the other way around.
It seems he was swept up into the purity movement, and his passion for ideas and relationship theology hid the fact maybe even from himself that he wasnt all in with God, at all. Did Christianity " not work" for Josh, after he "tried Jesus"? Josh dipped his toes in the water of Christianity, but appears never repented of his personal sin and actually had a relationship of faith in Jesus. Jesus doesnt want us to try Him, as if Hes a product. What if our significant others treat us that way? . And with this movement coming up against his book, combined with leaving his church after a scandal cover-up, it seems he lost his identity as an author, relationship guru, and pastor. We dont know what his role was in the happenings at his church, but he moved to Canada and began attending a liberal school as he drifted away...just as his divorce from Shannon was a drift and not a sudden decision.
And even as a Christian i can say when we read purported Christian books, we never just take the words as gospel and without discernment. He had some Biblical concepts ( which of course anyone else will not agree with) such as saving sex for marriage and being intentional with the goal of our relationships and not just dating for fun. BUT if we view all of Josh's guidelines as keeping us from heartache and being the answer to our happiness, we miss the point. We often want a 5 step process to keep us from hurt. Yet we cant fully guarantee the outcome, cant promise that we will marry the first person we have a relationship with. And its up to each person and their conscience before God, how to conduct a relationship. I dont think it matters as much if we call it dating or courting or whatever, but what it actually consists of. Each Christian should pray how to proceed because each situation is different- while following what we know to be expected of us in Scripture.
A mistake of " purity culture" as a movement is that often teens were swept away by emotion, all their friends at the rally were committing to true love waits, they got a ring and were promised a perfect marriage and great sex. But once the music stops and youre alone by yourself in a room with someone, thats when what you really believe is tested. Is a ring going to keep you from sex, if your heart isnt in it? Purity starts in a heart that desires God and His will more than anything, and takes sin seriously. And its dangerous to promise that if we keep sex for marriage, we wont be disappointed. Most every one of us will have troubles, Jesus said. Our spouses will even let us down at times. We dont trust in sex or marriage for satisfaction, but God; and if you and your boyfriend or girlfriend are striving to honor God and eachother, He will show you how to move forward. Dont trust in men, trust God. Dont trust in Christian authors even, but in God's Word. Read with discerning, take away the good, and discard the chaff. And dont hate those you disagree with or write them off;pray for them
His Canvas of grace what an insight thank you for this
No true Scotsman.
I'm pretty sure the guy at 18:38 didn't have to make an effort to wait until marriage...
May God hold you accountable for those mean words.
There is no doubt, this guy is gay. Its important that he is honest with himself
Sounds like you're projecting, dude.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 " for this is the WILL of God, that you abstain from sexual immorality. Please young people, stay in God's will. Wait on our Lord.
Lol evangelicals be evangelicalling.
wE dOnT nEeD tO sTuDy dOcTrInE wE hAvE fEeeeels