Mini Vent (for organ) Review Pt I - Neo Instruments Ventilator
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Check out Part II here: • Mini Vent (for organ) ...
The song up top is from the release Jim Alfredson's Dirty Fingers - A Tribute to Big John Patton: tinyurl.com/kty...
Jim Alfredson reviews the Mini Vent (for organ) from Neo Instruments. The Mini Vent is a smaller, less expensive version of the original Ventilator rotary speaker simulator. It features two user-definable presets, stereo output, rugged build quality, silent switches, and all the tone that made the original Ventilator so great.
Oct 9, 2013 Addendum: Guido Kirsch of Neo Instruments emailed me to let me know that my claim of the guitar Mini Vent lacking the amp simulation is not correct. Here's what he wrote:
"Although seems logical and I had planned it this way, Gary Gand convinced me that for lead playing the cab sim is essential and he absolutely wanted it. So the 2 programmable parametersi n the guitar Mini Vent are Cab Sim on/off and Drive Intensity. Other than that the differences are in the fixed Speed / Acceleration and Balance settings."
So the Mini Vent is still voiced better for organ, but the regular Mini Vent does have the amp simulation.
www.neo-instrum...
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this thing sounds bloody fantastic. if you didn't know it wasn't a real Leslie, you wouldn't know it wasn't a real Leslie.
Yes, but it's more expensive than a Leslie!!!
Fernando Ramirez you can't buy a new Leslie for $262
@@chieftp What?? $262?! In 2010, when I bought the original Vent, it was $400-something. But - it’s all good; I’m about to run my XK5 through it and if Jim’s C2 sounds this good, well, I’m hoping the XK5 sounds, at LEAST tolerable...!
To: Knight Six: you sir are all I've mostly come to expect from the generation, namely restraint, good advice when indicated and overall stability of resolve. May we all strive to be so. -doug
The mini-Vent coupled with Hammond's SK1 keyboard pretty much replaces a "real" Hammond organ coupled with a "real" Leslie cabinet, and any deficiencies are substantially offset by the gig-ability and form factor differences--being able to load your 22lb Hammond keyboard into your sub-compact vehicle, store the 'Vent in a duffle bag along with your pedals and cables, and be set up and connected for your gig in 10 minutes. I cut my performing chops on a Hammond A and twin tower Leslie 31H cabinets, then migrated into various configurations of that equipment including a couple of B3's, 122 and 145-147 Leslies, and I can tell you: The SK1 and a 'Vent covers the bases.
Thanks for posting. I’m still learning and this was very helpful.
Thank you for this great demo.
Correct. The upcoming Ventilator II will have the REMOTE jack. Neo Instruments is also looking into a modification that will allow the Mini-Vent to have a REMOTE input but at the cost of one of the outputs, meaning it will only be in MONO. That might not be a big deal for live use.
Eddie, it's really a matter of taste. The sim in the SK series is quite good. The Ventilator, to my ears, has a bit more 3D realism in the top end (higher frequencies) and the overdrive is extremely authentic. It really does sound like a Leslie 122 being over-driven, whereas the overdrive in the SK series sounds more like a pedal type overdrive.
Again, it's really a matter of personal taste.
No. There is no REMOTE input like on the original Ventilator, though Neo Instruments is discussing an add-on option for that.
excellent review - plus you can play, always a bonus
Yes this is what i been waiting for!! YES I love the Mini Vent
WOW, forget the pedal, you rock man!
Hi Jim, Sounds great! Know this is a 9 year old post but how did you get the 1/4 " feed from your organ to mono input of mini vent?
6 pin to 1/4" adapter or what? Have a D and no Leslie that I would like to get up and running similar to your C-2.
Curious what amplification are you using? Thanks, Steve
yes, i can see cabinet behind you. thanks for the info...the sound is great...keep it up.
Didn't find this comment until after I posted my comment. I hope Neo does
decide to add the half-moon switch option. I've been hesitant to try a Vent, but the cost for Leslies has gone beyond ridiculous, and if this option does "come to pass" it will be great for those of us who are hard-put to ante up for a Leslie.
Just to share a thought with all of the 'half-moon' adherents out there. My Leslie 3300 came with both the half-moon set-up as well as a small foot-pedal set-up. I Velcro-ed the foot pedal to the top of my volume pedal and activate it with my right big toe (I prefer to play in my socks). So, no need to take my hands off the manuals for any reason, and it doesn't take long to assimilate the 'toe' press into practice. Also, the foot-pedal is a simple 1/4" plug-in to the 3300, while one would have to wire the half-moon in order to use it. Lastly, I don't like the idea of having to put any type of hole anywhere on my pristine 1959 C-3. I installed a Trek Reverb (I use both the Leslie 3300 and the original JR20 speaker together), and in like manner used Velcro to attach the rotary switch to the underside of the C-3 cabinet. Hope this helps to clarify the half-moon questions I see throughout this commentary.
Sound great with your awesome playing!
Neo does have a package with the half moon switch that comes with it!
Fantastic, thorough demonstration ... thanks so much (love your playing too!).
I just bought a used Mini Vent. Is there any update on the remote control modification?
Awesome....I worship the Hammond B3 Leslie sond.....
I can't say which is better because it depends on the condition of both. My C2 sounds better than most B3s because most B3s are beat up.
The Mini Vent and the original Vent sound the same.
hey Jim, what is the name of the intro tune? It is really swinging and I love it!!!
Great demo Jim, as always!
This would be one sweet deal if there was a way to plug in a "Half-moon" switch, that would bypass the buttons, and allow it to be controlled the way God meant a Leslie to be controlled.
Or at least, in a fashion familiar to some of us...
I have one that somebody modded to use with a remote for switch
Amazing!
Jim: I have a 1959 Hammond C-3, purchased from two sisters in their '80's who wanted to 'get rid of their large items' in order to move to smaller accommodations. The organ was is excellent (unmarked!) condition and after servicing plays beautifully (every service person who walked into my house has offered to buy it!). It was never moved from the same position in their house since purchase and had not been turned on for over 15 years when I bought it. My problem? I purchased a Leslie 3300. I love the Leslie, but somehow achieving a sound similar to what I hear you (and others like you) play has alluded me. Yes, I have printouts of all the 'famous' performer drawbar combinations, but they simply don't sound the same. I looked at your drawbars (from the few I can see in your video), but know I've tried similar settings as well. I'm left to conclude it's the Leslie 3300's tonal qualities that are responsible, as I'm unable to replicate the same sound as what you are doing here...which to my ear seems to be a slight boost in base and treble tonalities with reduction of midrange tones. Am I correct? Can it be the Leslie 3300? The next question logically follows is which cabinet are you using for your setup and is that the answer? Any assistance you can render to help me achieve that typical Hammond/Leslie sound that you're producing would be greatly appreciated. Can you share your exact drawbar settings for one of the Bb keys so I can try what you're using? John from Buckeye, Arizona.
The 3300 is a great Leslie. Have you tried changing the tube? I find a 12AT7 sounds better in that circuit than the stock 12AX7, especially an older, new old stock 12AT7.
The 3300 does sometimes lack a bit of bass, especially in the bass pedal range, depending on the room and it's position in the room. But the midrange characteristics are similar (the crossover is at the same 800Hz frequency as all the "classic" Leslies) plus you have the onboard EQ available.
My main left hand / comping setting is 808 000 000. My main solo setting is the Jimmy Smith setting, 888 000 000 C3 chorus, 3rd harmonic percussion on/soft/fast. Often I turn the percussion off and pull out a bit of the last drawbar for a Groove Holmes type sound, 888 000 005.
Jim Alfredson
Jim, thank you for the drawbar settings + 12AT7 suggestion. I apologize that I'm late in getting back to this...interruptions of regular life.
I've done a significant amount of homework ref. the existing 12AX7 tube in my Leslie 3300. It's a "SOVTEK 7025/12AX7WA" The WA indicates 'milspec' or a tube made to military specifications. I've read reviews of this tube from a number of web sites that appear to be quite informative and credible. One rates the SOVTEK tube (5 = good / zero = bad) as good on microphonics (5) and not so good on Noise (2) and Musical detail (2). OK - that puts stats to what my ears already perceive. BUT; it's somewhat ironic to see a 'not so good' rating, when the 7025 that precedes the tube number means, "Preferred Series." (???)
However, I'm skeptical about that microphonic rating of 5. If it's so good in that category, why is it being held rigidly in place by a strong wire clip in the Leslie 3300?
The standard 12AX7's mu rating is 100, while the 12AT7 comes in at mu 60. That difference accounts for the reduction in harshness and smooth-out of midrange frequencies, as some of the references say.
That said, Brent Jessee at BRENT JESSEE RECORDING & SUPPLY, INC, (www.audiotubes.com ) is quite convincing in providing credible comparisons and information about a 6201/RCA Blackplate 12AT7WA tube. So clear, in fact, that I just purchased one ($40.00, plus $9 S&H + $2 insurance: total $51.00). It's a NOS 1960's vintage milspec version 12AT7.
We'll see how it goes once I receive it, and I'll write here to let you know as well. Again, thank you for your responses...they are all greatly appreciated and it's wonderful to see a quality musician like you that cares enough to assist others. John (Knight Six)
John, I think you'll really like that 12AT7 in the 3300. The clip around the tube is present in any decent modern tube amp. At the kind of volumes the 3300 can produce, it's a wise addition.
Jim, one more thought. I went to my Leslie 3300 and reset the EQ as follows: Bass = flat (at the 12:00 o'clock position) Midrange - zero (full left - no midrange) Treble = full right (brightest treble setting). This does in fact approach the typical Hammond sound, with drawbars set up similar to yours...but it's still incomplete. I hope the new 12AT7 tube will iron that out. I'll keep you posted. John
Putting a 12AT7 in the tube circuit makes a marked improvement.
Thanks! I love all things Hammond. I have far too many organs and Leslies. :)
Would like to ear that on my recap 61' A100!! Thanks for the review!!
6:00 My god, I love that sound!
This is awesome! Now I have to decide whether I want to buy this or a Leslie studio 12 to haul around.. Thought?
Kaleb Trojacek What kind of music? The Studio 12 sounds really good but if you're kickin' bass pedals or playing left hand bass, it might not have enough 'oomph' in the low end. However, nothing beats moving air. The Vent sounds great but real spinning is always a good thing. :)
i love this guy!
the MiniVent has a pre-amp tube in it? or do you have a tube-pre from the B3 through to the Vent? I've had a SpeakEasy Vintage Instruments custom-built pre (600 volt quality Russian 12AX7) from my VK8m (at the time) to my Leslie 2101 rig, and it thickened up my organ tone, just right.
That aside, the Ventilator series does this amp drive sim (more of the 6550's drive effect when pushed hard) quite well.... I'm almost tempted to buy the MV, as it has a very decent tone right out of the box (possible minor DSP improvements) and compact simplistic UI....
Great review...
I never had an issue with the chorus. Try changing the SPEED of the Vent or the rate of the chorus.
I don't recall if I was using chorus on Green Onions but that was the XK3 going through a Leslie 3300. I did not have a Ventilator at the time.
I love this unit. When it's working. I've had two fail. I've just returned for repair a second time. Hopefully the last time.
I heard its good to put the guitar through the organ voicing mode?
U could still hookup to the Hammond XK right??
It can connect to pretty much anything.
Think I'll grab a few licks from this. Oh, the mini VENT sounds good too.
Jim, great video! Where did you get the cable to connect the two?
hey Jim can you run a crescent switch thru that?
I would love to see you compare the Neo Ventilator with the GSI Burn!
I'm A little new as far as working the draw bars and the pedal for expression and distortion ( I don't use Bass Pedals). I have the Sk1 and love it but not sure about the Leslie Cabs and what does the Ventilator do that isn't already in the critically acclaimed Leslie Sim. that's built in???
If you look at the footage starting at 0:30 you can see a Leslie cabinet behind me to the left. That is one of many.
The organ is a Hammond C2 from 1954. I own two B3s as well.
How do you hook this thing up to an organ without a Leslie? I’m looking to get one I have a Hammond C3. Also where do you get this joint at because that literally have 1 online on reverb.com. They have the others but not the one for organ.
hello Jim, got a few questions...is your organ still have the original paper and wax caps on the tone generator? or it has been re caped? maybe you are using the trek II amp? i'am asking that because the organ sounds very good for his age. thanks!
Jim would you do another VIDEO and show where the VENT PLUGS into your ORGAN and how it is done and set up please thanks
#1 FAN
The easist way to do it is to buy a direct out kit from TrekII.
www.trekii.com/#MISC
The OBL-2 Line Output Box will do what you want.
Jim Alfredson thnks got it and installed it myself was really easy. I love this. i really appreciate it
Este mini venti , ya se vende en costa rica. Gracias
what organ are you using? how are you connecting the mini vent to your organ? I have a b3 from 1957 but cant find any cable online that would let me connect the two.
Hi Jim, great playing as always, and a very useful review. I just bought the mini vent (organ) to use with my SK1. On my first practice session I bypassed the internal Leslie sim on the SK (bypass button) and ran the vent in mono to a JBL EON 15" speaker. I was too lazy to set up my second JBL and run it in stereo! Also, I was trying to replicate what I will probably run into in a live setting with the sound guy giving me just one channel to the PA.
First impression is that the vent sounds great at slow speeds - I can certainly sense more "air" and it is leaps and bounds above what was already a good internal Leslie sim on the SK. My problem is that the vent appears to detune the organ tone significantly when the fast Leslie is engaged on the mini vent, at least in a mono configuration. Is this less of an issue when running stereo outs?
Also, I have not yet tried to customize the A and B presets for drive, etc. Do you use any onboard drive from the organ (pre-pedal) or only the drive in the vent itself? I thought this might perhaps be my problem with the detuning issue. Sorry for the long message!
If you're running in mono, make sure you use the MONO output (which is the RIGHT output on the Vents). This might help the apparent detuning issue. All Leslies sort of detune the signal due to the Doppler effect but it's more of a Frequency Modulation effect, not a real detuning.
Jim Alfredson Thank you. Tried that. Also set the SK output to mono. I will give it another go, maybe build a patch with no Leslie rather than trying to use the bypass button. Will have to try stereo as well and see where that gets me. Thanks for the advice and speedy reply!
nickatnite68 Posting a follow-up in case anyone is reading the comments. Had a chance to try the Mini Vent in a live setting for the first time last night. Sent full volume organ output to the pedal to ensure it was getting enough gain and the detuning issue I was experiencing is gone. Sounds great paired with my Hammond SK1 and is completely plausible in place of a real Leslie. Far superior to the internal Leslie sim, which was not bad to begin with. Thanks for your help, Jim, and Happy New Year!
Jim, just watched your review of the "Privia PX5s." Loved your "fairy" lady and the light coming from the box...too funny! Very enjoyable.
I have the Privia PX-330 which sits on top of my Hammond C3 (well-padded so as not to scratch). It has its own dedicated Matrix B52 sound system with Behringer B2092A 360w active studio subwoofer. Good sounding unit and no complaints at all about its performance.
I received the 12AT7 tube and will state it does exactly what you say...irons out a lot of harshness, mellowing out the sound. However, my holy grail of replicating your typical Hammond sound still eludes me! I'm close, but not in your league...I conclude it has to be the cabinet, and that my Leslie 3300 is the culprit. I will hunt for a Leslie 122 and see it that does the trick.
I would appreciate your opinion on the following. I tap the C3's preamp outs to the Leslie 3300's cable pins, so hook-up is painless and works perfectly. If I were to additionally tap the C3 preamp to a two-line wire for a 1/4" plug - for the input to a MINI VENT (MV) - then run the output for the MV into the original JR20 tube cabinet that came with my C3...would the JR20 then sound like the Hammond you are demonstrating in this RUclips video? Is my reasoning sound? Think it would work? Please let me know. John
I definitely have hammond xkc-1c keyboard, does it work
Hi, My teen boys have two hammonds, an M3 & a T-233-1. Is it possible to hook up a Vent II to either of these Hammonds? We dont have any leslie speakers(short of the drum they call a leslie in the T-233). Would you use an external speaker with this box or run it through the jensen that comes with the spinet? Sure would be nice to get some quality leslie sound and amplitude without breaking the bank.
I have not heard the new Leslie pedal from Hammond, so I can't say.
Hi. I have a xk5 with 3300 leslie. Will this give more hammond sound compared with half moon switch? Morten
In comparison to Leslie's new digital pedal which one wins overall?
Not until there are more products that are just as good ;) Curious to see where GSi's BURN goes. Initially it's "good" but no vent. However, software upgradeable.
Is better the minivent that the ventilator? I think this has less controls and the Leslie simulation is the same.
I don't understand.
It's more compact and less expensive. The original Ventilator is no longer in production.
Jim Alfredson Ok, then, i´ll wait for the Ventilator II.
I have much expectation!
Which one: C2 or B3 sound better?
Mini or Ventilator to manage sound?
Any opinions on the Leslie pedal vs the Ventilator?
bello!
Hi Jim - great review! I was wondering what you think the pros/cons of the Mini Vent would be compared to a Motion Sound Pro 3T or 3X would be? A used Motion Sound unit would be about the same price as the Mini Vent. Thanks!
Normally I'd say anything that's moving real air would be superior but I have to be honest here; I have never been a fan of the Motion Sound stuff. It just doesn't sound right. I'd go for the Vent and a pair of really good powered speakers.
Jim Alfredson
Excellent - thanks! One other question - in your opinion, is the Vent II worth the additional $150 over the Mini Vent? I am a beginner, so am thinking the limited tweakability of the Mini Vent is probably fine for my needs, but would very much appreciate your opinion on this.
They sound the same, so it's up to you whether you need the added functionality, including the REMOTE input of the Vent II.
Jim Alfredson
Thanks! Ended up finding Vent II for $100 more than Mini Vent, so went with the additional functionality. Thanks for your help!
Nice! Enjoy your new toy!
also do you keep it up top or do you use it on the floor?
Yep...I talked to Sweetwater and they are not sure how to adapt this to the old Hammonds. We have a C2 at church with an 11 speaker Hammond cabinet that we'd like to use a mini vent on. Can you show how to connect to the Hammond?
Contact Ashby Solutions. I'm sure they can help.
music.ashbysolutions.com/neo.htm
It turns out that the tonewheels look like a guitar pickup to an amplifier. If you look inside the cabinet you will likely see a shielded coaxial cable running into the preamp from the tonewheel generators.
It can get grungey!
Does the mini Vent have a jack for a remote switch to control slow/fast? I plan to use a sim for pedal steel, no feet left for stompbox buttons! Would like to use a Leslie half moon controller, does that work with the mini Vent?
No, though Ashby Solutions was offering a modification to allow that. Not sure if they still do.
i can't tell..but isn't that a (hammond)b-3 in the video? i know this is an emulator..do you own an actual leslie cabinet?
I own the original Ventilator and I replaced the push button for the fast/slow speed with a 1/4 female jack. From that jack I can use my own pedal to change speeds. Why wear out the machine, use a cheap on/off pedal right?
Can I do this same thing with the MIni Vent? Just two wires going to it I would think. Put them to the 1/4 female jack and it's all good. I do understand that it voids the warranty but to me it is worth the small risk. Will this work and still allow me to program the thing?
Rob Vacanti Ashby Solutions does this, so it is possible. Google Ashby Solutions mini vent for pictures.
Jim Alfredson Thank You, I will.
Hi Rob. Did you do this?
how much is it
350
can u still use the switch on the organ still?
jim, how do you use the VENT on your organs? do you have to install a 1/4 inch jack in the back of the ORGAN say your Hammond A100 or B3???????
To use it on a tonewheel organ, I have a custom made direct box that converts the output from the Hammond's preamp to a mic level signal. I then have to run that into a mixer or mic preamp and then into the Vent.
dude u r so freakin awesome. I appreciate how you keep up with everyones questions and how much you care about your craft.
Do they make a half moon switch for this?
where is the sound coming from normal stereo speakers? or a Leslie Speaker?
I have one question on stage amplification, hopefully you can help me out.
The Ventilator has stereo outputs. When plaing a gig with PA, the speakers are far apart (can be 10-20 meters apart...), while a single lesie122 box is.. well.. a single box.
So should the L/R outputs be panned completely stereo, or somewhere in between? Anyone?
Late reply, but I would try going 60-80 percent panning on a wider setup like that. Fine tune it to taste, as always, but I think this would give you a good starting reference point. You can do a lot with judicious use of the pan pot's.
Hey Jim, one last question, Does the Neo Vent II give you a truer 122 sound vs me using my leslie 3300 on a Hammond C3 or B3?
The 3300 is it's own beast but you can get 122 type sounds out of it with the right preamp tube. It really depends on what you want to do. If you wire your tonewheel Hammond with a 1/4" output, you can use either the Vent or the 3300 easily enough.
Jim Alfredson would you be kind of enough to send me an email letting me know what Pre Amp tube to get for the 3300 Leslie? I just bought the Leslie 3300 from sweet water i have had it for a while now. I love it, but want to get as close to 122 as possible, email danielkinney@mac.com
Is there something similar that I can connect to a Yamaha SX90?
You can connect the Ventilator to an SX90.
Jim Alfredson Thanks--can you give me a rough estimate for price?
so if i have the yamaha MOTIF XF8 would I want this Neo Vent or the Big Neo Vent?
The Mini Vent would be a great option for the Motif XF8. I would suggest using one of the assignable outputs on the Motif.
Jim Alfredson i got me a LESLIE 3300 to go with my YAMAHA MOTIF XF 8 it's way cool. Would the VENT do any thing to help still or is my Leslie 3300 good enough? I am using the ORGAN in LOGIC STUDIO MAIN STAGE from APPLE which to me is the best sounding ORGAN VST that I have used so far..........u know of a better VST ORGAN?
The 3300 is a great Leslie. If you don't mind hauling the weight around, it's better than any simulator!
Hey Jim, would there be any point in me using the NEO VENT II and my 3300 Leslie on a Old Hammond C3? I don't have the money to buy speakers right now. So would i use just the leslie 3300 thru a 1/4 inch jack or make the 11 pin on my Hammond C3 or can I use both? why or WHY NOT? I am just learning some things.
So now I am in doubt... should I stretch my budget and buy a Ventilator 2 or save 150 dollars and buy the mini vent??? In practice, how often does one alter the settings while performing on stage??? I am a newbee when it comes to playing an organ, so I can' t really make up my mind yet. Can anyone help me out here? Ventilator 2 or mini vent???
+Peter Heijnen I'd go with the Mini Vent.
+Jim Alfredson,
Thanks! Guess I will do that. Can't wait to try it out!
Went for the Ventilator II afterall. Stereo inputs did it for me; gives me the option to connect the unit to my synths as well which makes it more flexible. Will be connecting it to my Roland VK-8M clonewheel in my regular setup. Cant wait to try it out. Need a few days of patience before it is delivered.
+Peter Heijnen Congrats!
Peter Heijnen b
Dude. You're insane. Be in my band now.
Play Stormy Monday Lee Michaels style!
Him Jim, Can you tell me if ( aside of the big Vent´s tweaking posibilitties ) both the Mini Vent for organ and the new Ventilator II have the same quality in their leslie simulation?.
Yes, they do. The only difference is the hands-on access to the parameters and the REMOTE input.
o orgao é exelente mas o pedal ventilador não muda em nada o som
Hello, I’m curios how did you get the pedal to play through your Hammond is there a jack that it fits into? I really want to figure out distortion goes into a old Hammond before I buy one. Can any distortion guitar pedal go through a hammond?
The pedal is not actually playing through the Hammond. The Hammond is routed through the pedal. The difference is important because of what it seems like you want to do. From your comment, it appears you want to use a pedal to change the sound of the Hammond, yet still use whatever speaker you have connected, such as a Leslie or Hammond tone cabinet, correct?
For that you need an FX loop installed on the Hammond. TrekII makes one. This allows you to route either the top manual (keyboard) or lower manual through any effects pedal, such as regular guitar overdrive pedals.
In this video, I'm simply taking a direct out from the Hammond preamp and sending it to the Ventilator. The output of the Ventilator is then connected to my computer audio interface for recording. So I'm not using a real Leslie speaker or Hammond tone cabinet.
Does that make sense?
$349 US.
Cool, but far too expensive... costs twice the price it actually deserves :/
Quiet children, im trying to enjoy a review