I have a 1200kv Fusion in my TRX6. As far as wheel speed goes, it’s probably a little slower than the stock motor/esc, and almost bang on with the 1080/9t HH Crawlmaster Sport that it replaced. That thing has many, many miles of trail time on it, most notably the “Buddha/Private” trail(s) at Buddha’s. It was the first Fusion I got (bought new at Cookeville Hobbies), and has spent time in 3 different TRX trucks, but will remain in the 6, unless I come across a stupid deal on something better. I actually wanted to put it in my VS410, but it didn’t quite fit, and I didn’t want to do the necessary clearancing to make it work, so it got a Castle Copperhead combo. Honestly, I like the Fusion much better. It’s the combination of smoothness, power, efficiency, incredible drag breaks, and simplicity that makes the Fusion so dang good. Now that they’re so cheap, it’s really hard to argue that they’re not the better option. Brushed is dead, and Fusion is the future!
Good info! Here in Germany a HW 1080 WP (G1) is about €48 + a decent Motor €27 (total €75). The cheapest Fusion SE (1200kV) is €100, the 1800kV version is €114. So, at least €25 more for little to none gain in performance/controllability. It's a tough call.
@@user-rv8wb1nl1b The question is: how much more efficient is a brushless motor compared to a brushed one? And how much bigger are the run times? My SCX10II chassis has a HW 1080WP + Holmes Hobbies brushed power train which draws its power of a 5400mAh 3S bat. This one bat is enough for at least one hour of crawling. Lets say a brushless system is about 20% more efficient. This would mean that you have 72 instead of 60 minutes of runtime? Is this really necessary? Another topic which is seldom mentioned is how good is the heat dissipation? At a "hard" crawling session my motor in the SCX10 gets really hot (this comes from the drag or hand brake force the motor has to deliver in order to hold the car in place on steep slopes or uphill passages. If the ESC is separate from motor this is not a problem for the ESC. But how is it if the ESC is within the same enclosure as the motor? Don't get me wrong! I use brushless systems on all my bashers, racers, buggies, etc. But on crawlers: no. The reason is, that i like to keep the setup of my crawlers unchanged and buying a new brushless system for every crawler is simply to much money. Brushless is of course the future (for crawlers i mean, for every other aspect of RC driving this technologies has already replaced brushed systems). But - at least for me - currently for crawlers a good brushed systems is still the best option, considering all aspects.
@@arminrc i don't run a drag brake , i get by , but i am mainly trailing . As these brushless systems get cheaper , i may be tempted . Its good technology , progress i guess . . .
I just installed a Hobbywing 1080g2 esc and 555 13 T 5 slot motor in my Vanquish Phoenix. Both fit perfectly. No cutting, No grinding required. Thanks 👍
Awesome video Troy! I just put the pro in my new jlu build. I went with it because it’s tried and true and the SE is new so I was on the fence lol. I am thinking on putting the SE in my basecamp now! Can’t wait to see the footage and update from uste!
@Dreiviertel that's the reason I went back with the 1080 g2 in my tracked TRX4. The adjustable drag brake is great for trailing and my HH Trailmaster 21 turn is a bit faster than my Fusion SE 1800kv on 2s or 3s, it has a stronger BEC @ 8.4V, and it runs cooler to boot. And the real car mode is just a bonus as well!
If you don't use the FOC function and enjoy the feel of having to throttle over stuff some people really like the high end brushed motors. I personally like the braking power/wheel speed/FOC function of my fusion pro. And my trucks are always wet so brushed motors never last long
The efficiency wins it for brushless for me . Got one in a basecamp running an 850mah 3s lipo to keep weight low , getting over an hour runtime per pack . Brushed would need a 1300 mah for similar runtime.
I thought I'd jump on this bandwagon too and purchased a pair of 1800kv Fusion brushless motor/esc combo's for a dual motor on axle crawler build. Only after purchasing and opening the boxes did I discover they were almost 1cm too long. Now I own two of these wonderful motors - but have never used them once. I keep waiting for that next crawler build, but I worry about fitment. I think the newer ones are a bit shorter though...?
I been spoiled by brushless since I found the axe system on sale years ago and since have bought the 1800kv original fusion and the fusion pro as soon as it hit the market and sure I still have a couple brushed systems aka 1080 and holmes motor that r still amazing but a firm believer in brushless hands down
The longevity is what I wonder about. I am thinking if the motor goes out or the esc goes bad you have to spend the $70 again to replace. Where as with the brushed motor can be replaced for $20. Just considering long term cost. I have the HW 1080 and the Holmes crawlmaster sport 12t in my element and it does the very slow very good and good wheel speed too. Just my thoughts
Yes! I do understand that concern. Fortunately, I have the predecessor to this setup from Hobbywing, have really abused it - and it still has had no issues.
Dang! I just bought my first hobbywing 1080 esc a few weeks ago for $45, was planning to get a team brood pathfinder 550 to go with it in my gen 8. Now I'm seeing this for $80? Thanks for the review 👍👍
Are they sensored? I love brushless on bashers but on crawlers I always felt like you lose the control brushed provides and for me it’s not worth the price difference. A good brushed motor with stock esc is a cheap upgrade ($20 or so) and playing with gearing (also cheap) will get you more wheel speed if needed. I have no doubt brushless will overtake brushed soon just like electric overtook nitro but for now it doesn’t seem worth the trade offs unless you are willing to drop hundreds into a high end setup
I agree 💯 on everything except one factor. Availability. The SE system is hard to find right now in the States unless you want to order from China and wait. You can still grab the 1080 at your local hobby shop or Amazon prime and have it quick along with Holmes motors. Now, when the boom slows downs and the SE is readily available. Yeah , brushed is dead
I'm with you, the last video the Fusion cost $150, that was the first test, now is the same halve the price, 1200kv $70 and 1800kv $80, compare to the brushed system is better, and the brushed cost with 1080 and HH motor close to $60 - $100 depends what motor you want, yes brushed system is completely dead 😉 literally
I love my Holmes Magnum motor and Holmes BR mini and wouldn’t trade them for any brushless set up. But if a $280 esc/motor combo isn’t your thing I’d put the Surpass hobby Rocket 540 plus and 80a esc combo for $50 up against the Fusion SE.
Yep - certainly not trying to spend $280! I also wouldn't go with your Suprass combo because they aren't waterproof at all. We like to get muddy and wet!
I will be staying brushed as long as people like eddy from brood racing are making motors. If I destroy a brushed motor in some muddy water I can swap in a new one for 20$ Not so with brushless, I know they are supposed to be waterproof but that fails sometimes in hard use. Also brushed motors having the brush riding on the comm provides a sort of physical drag brake the brushless motors simply don't have.
Your suggestion is that continuing to spend more money on a brushed setup makes more sense....??? These brushless setups go full submarine without issue.
@@RoadsideRC the only way you're spending more money is if you're just comparing hobbywing to hobbywing, what about the isdt 70 ESC? They're $24 I have three of them , pair that with a $20 motor. My point is there are a lot of decent options out there 4 brushed setups that are still cheap today, not to mention I like brush motors because I've been doing this for 30 years and they're kind of my roots. Don't get me wrong I own a lot of brushless motors in different rigs but I will always still like brushed motors.
Il take brushed all day for crawling. The less maintenance of them brushless is nice. Bashing brushless for me crawling definitely brushless . Its It's not dead yet my friend
Hobbywing brushless motor have very little advantage over a brushed setup. You get what you pay for, the Fusion stuff simply doesn't come close to anything Castle, Holmes Hobbies or Tekin make.
I have tried all of those brands. They all make good stuff. I actually prefer Hobbywing over most of those based on my personal experience - but people should have fun with any of them!
@Red Deer Rebel RC That is odd - have you actually tested one of these crawler-specific brushless setups? What you say, is exactly what folks say these do even better...
This is true! I was also worried about that when I first purchased one of the 2-in-1 combos. Now - it has been a few years of TORTURE...and neither has broken... So although I do understand that concern - it turns out they are durable enough that it isn't an issue.
Tell me you don't comp without telling me that you don't comp. Now compare that brushless 2 in 1 to a higher end brushed setup like a holmes hobbies torque master expert
You’re not wrong, but a comp setup typically won’t be happy running trails all day. For a comp, where you typically run for less than 10 minutes, and you need every ounce of performance available, the high dollar setups are almost mandatory. But, for running trails all day or for a G8-style “comp”, the Fusion is an EXCELLENT option.
Also… he put it in a basically stock Redcat Gen 9… what about that says “comp rig”?? Knowing Troy, and his abilities with all forms of RC, I’d wager he could absolutely compete in a SORRCA comp. With a stock-ish rig. Put him behind the controls of a fully built comp crawler and I’d be really surprised if he didn’t at least podium.
Nope .I rather have brushed motors .My heavy rigs runs longer on a brushed 550 motor than the fusion ..I only use 550 brushed motors .don’t waste my time with 540’s only in classic tamiya’s .I found the smd konnect better than the hobbywing fusion .it’s cheaper and made for smd by hobbywing.
@@chill_ducky0903 it's a toy, radio controlled yes, but... you won't be able to buy spare parts or upgrades. battery connectors will be anything random blablabla.... it's a toy, not really a good "rc car" that being said i do NOT own one
I have a 1200kv Fusion in my TRX6. As far as wheel speed goes, it’s probably a little slower than the stock motor/esc, and almost bang on with the 1080/9t HH Crawlmaster Sport that it replaced. That thing has many, many miles of trail time on it, most notably the “Buddha/Private” trail(s) at Buddha’s. It was the first Fusion I got (bought new at Cookeville Hobbies), and has spent time in 3 different TRX trucks, but will remain in the 6, unless I come across a stupid deal on something better. I actually wanted to put it in my VS410, but it didn’t quite fit, and I didn’t want to do the necessary clearancing to make it work, so it got a Castle Copperhead combo. Honestly, I like the Fusion much better. It’s the combination of smoothness, power, efficiency, incredible drag breaks, and simplicity that makes the Fusion so dang good. Now that they’re so cheap, it’s really hard to argue that they’re not the better option.
Brushed is dead, and Fusion is the future!
Preach on!!!
Good info! Here in Germany a HW 1080 WP (G1) is about €48 + a decent Motor €27 (total €75). The cheapest Fusion SE (1200kV) is €100, the 1800kV version is €114. So, at least €25 more for little to none gain in performance/controllability. It's a tough call.
Yes! That makes sense.
When the difference is $10...it is an easier decision.
what about runtime ? i heard brushless have longer runtimes ?
@@user-rv8wb1nl1b That is correct. Brushless is more efficient, so run time is longer.
@@user-rv8wb1nl1b The question is: how much more efficient is a brushless motor compared to a brushed one? And how much bigger are the run times? My SCX10II chassis has a HW 1080WP + Holmes Hobbies brushed power train which draws its power of a 5400mAh 3S bat. This one bat is enough for at least one hour of crawling. Lets say a brushless system is about 20% more efficient. This would mean that you have 72 instead of 60 minutes of runtime? Is this really necessary? Another topic which is seldom mentioned is how good is the heat dissipation? At a "hard" crawling session my motor in the SCX10 gets really hot (this comes from the drag or hand brake force the motor has to deliver in order to hold the car in place on steep slopes or uphill passages. If the ESC is separate from motor this is not a problem for the ESC. But how is it if the ESC is within the same enclosure as the motor?
Don't get me wrong! I use brushless systems on all my bashers, racers, buggies, etc. But on crawlers: no. The reason is, that i like to keep the setup of my crawlers unchanged and buying a new brushless system for every crawler is simply to much money. Brushless is of course the future (for crawlers i mean, for every other aspect of RC driving this technologies has already replaced brushed systems). But - at least for me - currently for crawlers a good brushed systems is still the best option, considering all aspects.
@@arminrc i don't run a drag brake , i get by , but i am mainly trailing . As these brushless systems get cheaper , i may be tempted . Its good technology , progress i guess . . .
I just installed a Hobbywing 1080g2 esc and 555 13 T 5 slot motor in my Vanquish Phoenix. Both fit perfectly. No cutting, No grinding required. Thanks 👍
Glad you like them!
Awesome video Troy! I just put the pro in my new jlu build. I went with it because it’s tried and true and the SE is new so I was on the fence lol. I am thinking on putting the SE in my basecamp now! Can’t wait to see the footage and update from uste!
I need to get myself a Pro so I can test them back-to-back!
@@RoadsideRC absolutely agreed
Don't want to miss the adjustable drag brake by radio and the programmable punch in my 1080 g2. So, I'm still using a brushed setup. 😊
The brushless setups have that as well...
@@RoadsideRC not the SE. It has only a programmable drag brake and no punch settings. You'll need to invest in a pro to adjust this.
@Dreiviertel that's the reason I went back with the 1080 g2 in my tracked TRX4. The adjustable drag brake is great for trailing and my HH Trailmaster 21 turn is a bit faster than my Fusion SE 1800kv on 2s or 3s, it has a stronger BEC @ 8.4V, and it runs cooler to boot. And the real car mode is just a bonus as well!
Nice result, and the same one I would come to. Thanks for referencing the earlier video too.
Thanks Jonnie!
If you don't use the FOC function and enjoy the feel of having to throttle over stuff some people really like the high end brushed motors. I personally like the braking power/wheel speed/FOC function of my fusion pro. And my trucks are always wet so brushed motors never last long
Yes - but then that high end brushed setup would be more expensive...
Thanks for a well put together video. Good luck at USTE and have fun. Looking for more feedback on the review. Thanks again. ✌
Please let us know. Great video and that's an incredible price point for a brushless setup.
I hope they come out with more KV options. That would be the icing on the cake. The FOC makes using cruise control soo good!
I agree - I would like to see some other kv options as well.
The efficiency wins it for brushless for me . Got one in a basecamp running an 850mah 3s lipo to keep weight low , getting over an hour runtime per pack . Brushed would need a 1300 mah for similar runtime.
Yes!! One of the big advantages.
Wow I’m doing all this wrong. I’m buying shorty packs aar 4000-4600 mah to save space now I have to try out the other way.
good review Troy and i agree brushless is the way to go!!🙂
Thanks 👍
I thought I'd jump on this bandwagon too and purchased a pair of 1800kv Fusion brushless motor/esc combo's for a dual motor on axle crawler build. Only after purchasing and opening the boxes did I discover they were almost 1cm too long. Now I own two of these wonderful motors - but have never used them once. I keep waiting for that next crawler build, but I worry about fitment. I think the newer ones are a bit shorter though...?
Yes! Big difference between Fusion Pro and Fusion SE. The Fusion SE are shorter.
Absolutely love those rims and tires. What brand and where can I buy them?
Hi!
These wheels: alnk.to/4XwIXUV
These tires: alnk.to/4MBXZ6T
Good luck!
@ Thank you for the quick reply.
I would be curious of the durability of the fusion, SE, and how it holds up from a long hard event like USTE.
We are about to find out!!!
The prior version of the motor has been in my TRX4 for MANY miles with zero issues.
I been spoiled by brushless since I found the axe system on sale years ago and since have bought the 1800kv original fusion and the fusion pro as soon as it hit the market and sure I still have a couple brushed systems aka 1080 and holmes motor that r still amazing but a firm believer in brushless hands down
Agree 100%!
The longevity is what I wonder about. I am thinking if the motor goes out or the esc goes bad you have to spend the $70 again to replace. Where as with the brushed motor can be replaced for $20. Just considering long term cost. I have the HW 1080 and the Holmes crawlmaster sport 12t in my element and it does the very slow very good and good wheel speed too. Just my thoughts
Yes! I do understand that concern.
Fortunately, I have the predecessor to this setup from Hobbywing, have really abused it - and it still has had no issues.
I think brushed is dead when my brushed motors are Dead! Then hello brushless!👋🏻😃❤️😂
Yes! Get all the life you can out of them!
Dang! I just bought my first hobbywing 1080 esc a few weeks ago for $45, was planning to get a team brood pathfinder 550 to go with it in my gen 8. Now I'm seeing this for $80? Thanks for the review 👍👍
Don't worry, you will still have a great setup!
Are they sensored? I love brushless on bashers but on crawlers I always felt like you lose the control brushed provides and for me it’s not worth the price difference. A good brushed motor with stock esc is a cheap upgrade ($20 or so) and playing with gearing (also cheap) will get you more wheel speed if needed. I have no doubt brushless will overtake brushed soon just like electric overtook nitro but for now it doesn’t seem worth the trade offs unless you are willing to drop hundreds into a high end setup
Yes - these are crawler-specific setups so they have all the control you would expect.
@@RoadsideRC interesting. From your video I couldn’t tell if it was giving you the same low end of the brushed but this sounds very promising!
I agree 💯 on everything except one factor. Availability. The SE system is hard to find right now in the States unless you want to order from China and wait. You can still grab the 1080 at your local hobby shop or Amazon prime and have it quick along with Holmes motors. Now, when the boom slows downs and the SE is readily available. Yeah , brushed is dead
Yeah - just shows how popular it is right now.
It's a new product. Availability will improve by the next few months.
@@shadow7037932 well duh 😂. I'm saying that's about the only thing causing brushed not to be completely dead yet
I'm with you, the last video the Fusion cost $150, that was the first test, now is the same halve the price, 1200kv $70 and 1800kv $80, compare to the brushed system is better, and the brushed cost with 1080 and HH motor close to $60 - $100 depends what motor you want, yes brushed system is completely dead 😉 literally
Thanks for seeing my logic!
I have the 2300kv pro in my Phoenix vs4-10 build and a new 1800kv SE sitting here waiting to find a home
Nice!
😁😁👍👍
I love my Holmes Magnum motor and Holmes BR mini and wouldn’t trade them for any brushless set up. But if a $280 esc/motor combo isn’t your thing I’d put the Surpass hobby Rocket 540 plus and 80a esc combo for $50 up against the Fusion SE.
Yep - certainly not trying to spend $280! I also wouldn't go with your Suprass combo because they aren't waterproof at all. We like to get muddy and wet!
@@RoadsideRC water is for boats! lol in a sorrca (dry course) setting the surpass will absolutely run with the fusion SE for $50.
@@RoadsideRC but for the record the surpass esc is waterproof.
I will be staying brushed as long as people like eddy from brood racing are making motors. If I destroy a brushed motor in some muddy water I can swap in a new one for 20$ Not so with brushless, I know they are supposed to be waterproof but that fails sometimes in hard use. Also brushed motors having the brush riding on the comm provides a sort of physical drag brake the brushless motors simply don't have.
Your suggestion is that continuing to spend more money on a brushed setup makes more sense....???
These brushless setups go full submarine without issue.
@@RoadsideRC the only way you're spending more money is if you're just comparing hobbywing to hobbywing, what about the isdt 70 ESC? They're $24 I have three of them , pair that with a $20 motor. My point is there are a lot of decent options out there 4 brushed setups that are still cheap today, not to mention I like brush motors because I've been doing this for 30 years and they're kind of my roots. Don't get me wrong I own a lot of brushless motors in different rigs but I will always still like brushed motors.
Hey Troy do you shift your gen9 on the fly or at a stand still? I’m having shift issues with mine
I literally never shift it.
It is supposed to be shifted when still.
Il take brushed all day for crawling. The less maintenance of them brushless is nice. Bashing brushless for me crawling definitely brushless . Its It's not dead yet my friend
That is what I used to say....but now why go brushed when these are so cheap...?
Hobbywing brushless motor have very little advantage over a brushed setup.
You get what you pay for, the Fusion stuff simply doesn't come close to anything Castle, Holmes Hobbies or Tekin make.
I have tried all of those brands. They all make good stuff.
I actually prefer Hobbywing over most of those based on my personal experience - but people should have fun with any of them!
I rub the Spektrum version and it’s the price of the original fusion. One programming card and I am sold on the smart batteries.
Glad you like it!
Fusion se > brushed
I'm new to this but installed my first 1200kv and its night and day.
I agree! And with the lower price, it is hard to beat!
For scale crawling, I'll take brushed all day.
I'm curious - what is your reason?
@@RoadsideRCsmoother, more predictable
@Red Deer Rebel RC That is odd - have you actually tested one of these crawler-specific brushless setups? What you say, is exactly what folks say these do even better...
@Roadside RC I have many sensored castle and Hobbywing systems.
@@reddeerrebelrc6674 Specifically the crawler setups?
Sorry man I'm just not a brushless fan. The ESC is no problem
That’s cuz you haven’t used it
PREACH!
And when one of the things get broke. When blow up the motor, your ESC is completely useless. Or the ESC get broke, the motor is useless.
This is true! I was also worried about that when I first purchased one of the 2-in-1 combos.
Now - it has been a few years of TORTURE...and neither has broken...
So although I do understand that concern - it turns out they are durable enough that it isn't an issue.
@Roadside RC that's great news.
I consider myself to go brushless in the FTX Texan. This is one of the options.
Tell me you don't comp without telling me that you don't comp. Now compare that brushless 2 in 1 to a higher end brushed setup like a holmes hobbies torque master expert
Thanks for the feedback.
Took part in 3-4 comps last year.
You’re not wrong, but a comp setup typically won’t be happy running trails all day. For a comp, where you typically run for less than 10 minutes, and you need every ounce of performance available, the high dollar setups are almost mandatory. But, for running trails all day or for a G8-style “comp”, the Fusion is an EXCELLENT option.
Also… he put it in a basically stock Redcat Gen 9… what about that says “comp rig”?? Knowing Troy, and his abilities with all forms of RC, I’d wager he could absolutely compete in a SORRCA comp. With a stock-ish rig. Put him behind the controls of a fully built comp crawler and I’d be really surprised if he didn’t at least podium.
@@pothole0222 I trail for hours with my comp trucks
@pothole0222 I was saying comp because he wanted to put is brushed dead in the video. Most comp people will say brushed over brushless
Your old fried motor, Pop a new in easy's Brushless I don't know
Just like in bashing, the brushless just doesn't fry. Because it is better tech.
Nope .I rather have brushed motors .My heavy rigs runs longer on a brushed 550 motor than the fusion ..I only use 550 brushed motors .don’t waste my time with 540’s only in classic tamiya’s .I found the smd konnect better than the hobbywing fusion .it’s cheaper and made for smd by hobbywing.
I'll ha e to check smd out - thanks!
Nah hobbywing 880 with a 550 Holmes hobbies motor on 4s is still way better, unstoppable low end torque and faster wheel speed.
The 880 dual-motor esc? I don't see many people using that one.
@@RoadsideRC it's surprisingly good, not much between it and the 1080
Negative brush motors are very much alive I pay like 20 bucks, You shell a brush motor
Correct - I also pay around $20 for just the motor. But you also need an ESC to go with it.
Just pop it out and put a new one in I mean it's easy, Brushless is more of a pain in the butt. Excuse me, ,,,
Pop what out?
is this a okISH first hobby grade rc car : overmax x_flash
I am sorry, I have no experience with that vehicle.
@@RoadsideRC i was thinking , that you will search it on internet , cause you are more specialist
@@chill_ducky0903 it's a toy, radio controlled yes, but...
you won't be able to buy spare parts or upgrades. battery connectors will be anything random blablabla....
it's a toy, not really a good "rc car"
that being said i do NOT own one