Mid-Air Collision over Europe | Boeing 757 Collides with a Russian Tu-154 (Real Audio)
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2024
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:30 DHL Boeing 757 Preparations
1:02 Takeoff
1:28 Tupolev Approaching Europe
2:08 Real Audio Communications
2:48 Over the German-Swiss Border
3:10 Collision Course
4:45 First Traffic Advisory
5:15 Attempts to Avoid the Collision
5:42 Resolution Advisory
6:28 Autopilot Off
6:55 Both Planes Descend
7:40 "Increase Climb"
8:26 Collision
9:39 Post Collision
10:25 Investigation
11:47 Linate Airport, Italy
12:43 Both Planes Begin to Taxi
14:20 Collision on the Runway
15:30 Investigation 
Развлечения
It's terrifying to think that EVERYONE on that ATC audio is deceased, including Nielsen
That was one of the saddest parts of the whole thing, it wasn't his fault; it was a systemic failure by his bosses and whoever left him alone with no warning system.
Yeah but for these barbaric russians everything is straightforward.
@@johnbower7452
@@johnbower7452 yes humans can make some mistakes noone is perfect thats why the companies have to follow some rules which in this case were not
@@johnbower7452 Its his fault bro, cuz its his reponsibility to keep everything in check on the traffic.
@@haikalhadzik7744 responsibility and fault are not exactly the same. If you choose someone to work for you and he makes a mistake which affects the business, of course its his fault, but ultimately it's your responsibility for putting him there.
The Überlingen accident did not have to happen.
On 31 January 2001 two JAL planes nearly collided mi-air over Japan because of this exact problem.
Japan's Civil Aviation Bureau urgently requested ICAO to issue clear rules as to what to do when TCAS and ATC conflict.
ICAO did... *nothing*
And on 1 July 2002 the same situation occurred -- with disastrous consequences.
wiki says ICAO did amend its regulations, but in 2003
@@TheMlg556 Yes, I did not say otherwise. I wrote that ICAO did nothing following the near miss in Japan.
I used to live in a small town close to Uberlingen at the Lake Constance where the collision happened. It was on a calm an warm summer night. In my appartment the northside windows and the southside balcony doors were wide open to have a cool breeze for the night. At 23:35 I got suddenly frightened by an enormous detonation and a compression wave pushed through my livingroom. I went out on the balcony and saw the burning debris of the wrecked planes falling down. It took almost 3 minutes … The saddest thing I ever experienced in my whole life.
@@ShoeSniffer-qu7gg *you're
His talking a truth
@@ShoeSniffer-qu7ggwhat makes you say that?
Sorry man. That is tough.
Sorry you have that as a memory. So very sad!!
I wouldnt blame Peter for making that mistake, i blame the Skyguide for that accident for negligence and leaving 1 controller alone with disabled equipment
В любом случае последнее слово было за КВС БАЛ.И он принял неправильное решение
yeah，i think so，the mistake was skyguide but not Peter.I cant understand why that father killed Peter，he lost his family，but Peter had a family too.And why the crazy criminal father was popular in Russia. That was unbelievable.😅
If you were trying to direct two planes travelling at those speeds from different directions to occupy the exact small part of the sky at exactly the same time it would be almost impossible. Of all the videos on this channel, mid air collisions always leave me thinking “if only” one of them had been 10m higher/lower or 5sec faster/slower. Tragically it wasn’t to be.
Hmm... You would be surprised at the number of aircraft occupying the same area in the sky in some regions of the world. I still remember during my flights to get my private pilot license how many aircraft would be in the same area close to an international airport, and it was always the flight instructor that would do the ATC communications (not me Lol) under those conditions. It has been several years since I last boarded a plane but I can guess it is even worse these days, since travelling by air has become more accessible to the average people, thus we have more aircraft in the sky now. 😅
Well, usually you only use FL in 10's(for IFR), that's 1000 feet of distance.
For cruise, most planes will be at FL320-FL420, since it's steps of 10, that's only 10 different altitudes.
yeah, it takes about 1/4 of a second for a 757 to fly over a distance equal to its own length
They were able to do that in breaking bad😅
The Uberlingen tragedy is one of the saddest cases I've ever heard about. It's like a continuous cascade of small systemic issues that result in one man having far too much work to do, and inevitably failing because of it.
I'm disappointed that this video didn't play the real cvr from the Russian airplane, since THERE IS an actual cvr. (As for the DHL airplane, I'm not aware of any cvr available.)
ToaArcan yes unfortunate that the dhl did follow the tcas system and defend, unfortunately the russian crew did not follow tcas to climb. Feel sad for both aircrafts, passengers, perhaps that accident could have been avoided.
meant to say decend
@@User-jr7vf there is another video on u tube, not sure which one actually that does have cvr. I'm not sure if the dhl being freight, not passenger craft is required cvr. Over the years, their fleet were using passenger craft, that were modified for freight.
I was one of the first responders, obviously everyone was already dead but I will never forget some of the passengers were still sitting in their seats, looking as if they were just sleeping, some with just a few scratches.
Oh my God! So sorry you had to witness that
what killed them if they only had a few scratches>?
@@mauinokaoi8747The Crash🤦♂️
Aside from the truly harrowing loss of life of those on the Tupolev, I feel for the DHL crew. From their perspective, they'd just finished their climb to 360. F/O Brant Campioni was filling in paperwork for the flight and asked Captain Paul Phillips for the takeoff time, then retired to the restroom, during which time the TCAS first sounded. Phillips disengaged the autopilot, reduced power and began a descent, which increased once Campioni returned to the cockpit and both pilots transmitted simultaneously warning ATC of their TCAS instruction (Campioni used 'Dilmun six-hundred' I believe because he was used to flying a different route, or could not remember the exact callsign in a time of stress). It's possible either of the crew actually saw the Tu-154 immediately prior to collision, evidenced by an exasperated curse spoken just before. The CVR recorded for nine seconds after the collision before its power supply failed, and the FDR failed almost immediately, so it's unknown what happened in the DHL cockpit after that. I was astounded to look at the pictures of the crash site near Tasiersdorf. The wreckage was buried up to the empennage, in fact it was lucky from the investigator's point of view because the collision impact area was the only surviving wreckage of the 757 (Probably its impact through the trees arrested its fall somewhat, because it did not burn and paint and markings were still visible). The engines that separated due to G-forces in the severe yawing motions following the collision impacted with such force they were almost flush with the ground. The saddest thing is that they did exactly what they were meant to do, and they still died. RIP to all 71 victims, and RIP to Brant Campioni and Paul Phillips.
And Peter Neilson too
Second video: Rule #1: If you don't know where you are, STOP and ask for help. Don't keep going. The airport is in total fog, the ground radar doesn't work, the markers are worn off, the taxiway or apron surface painted lines are fading, whatever. ATC at that point should call a halt to takeoffs, put landings on temporary hold or divert them to another field, and send a Follow Me truck with bright lights out to where you are to guide you to safety. I find it unacceptable that a controller would have no clue what a sign or marker means when a pilot tells him about it. The controller should know all the markers for his/her assigned area (some airports like Boston Logan split the field between controllers) consult a chart or ask someone else if he doesn't have a chart. The first video is an object lesson is the need for clear rules that specify TCAS instructions outrank ATC instructions. It might have been helpful if the DHL pilot had told Nielsen his TCAS told him to dive, but I don't know if Nielsen, as busy and distracted as he was, would have processed the information. Thank you for very good videos.
The pilots of the Cessna believed they were following the ground controllers' orders. The ground controller was new and didn't know the airport, so he didn't the runway marking the Cessna called in was and told them to continue.
I use to work in ATC in the US, did it for three years before I was burned out and quit.
ATC are stressed out and usually not trained properly, they are also under-staffed.
About 40% of who they hire are idiots who couldn't run a hot dog stand.
@@jefflebowski918 I appreciate the difficult working environments. I am not going to debate that. Are ATC controller candidates really that bad? Nobody intelligent wants to do it? It's a super important job.
@@ronaryel6445 It's a stressful job and the pay isn't great(at least in the US), the smart ones usually find another job that pays better.
It’s extremely well paid in the U.K. and nobody “stupid” would get as far as live traffic. There are a lot of exams to pass along the way and failing any is one resit then out if you fail again. Even after qualifying, you aren’t working without supervision for 12-18 months. Controllers are continually tested throughout their working careers.
These are among the saddest of accidents. They exemplify the importance of risk assessment. In the Italy collision, the risks caused by the dawdling in installing radar, in keeping signage repaired, and in using two different traffic control frequencies. In the German-Swiss collision, the risks from saving a buck on manpower and of the TCAS and ATC talking past each other and disagreeing.
wxwaxone if the russian flight had followed tcas warning to climb, rather than follow comptroller accident would not have happened. Even at the time they did implement that safety feature. A very unfortunate incident. This incident happen so long ago, hopefully travel is safer.
wxwaxone yes it absolutely was, unfortunately the russian cockpit did not follow there tcas system. In hindsight the group had taken them to the wrong airport, so they did have a day or so to explore the city. Overall there were so many gifted children, that were looking forward to a new adventure in there life, unfortunately is was cut short on this flight.
Disaster don't just happen........It is a chain of critical events that occur before the disaster
And sometimes the first event happens months prior
Ok seconds from disaster guy
We live in the area and that night my sister was sitting by the lake with friends and saw the explosion. And she told me she thought at first it was fireworks but they were too far up in the sky. RIP all the passengers and crew and the poor children. I am sure they were so excited for this trip. The murder of the atc controller added to the grief of this tragedy.
In Memory Of 71 souls in Bashkirian Airlines included schoolchildren of Ufa and Two Pilots of DHL flight 611. This tragedy is the saddest stories ever. The Air Tower control Peter Nielsen died after getting murder by one of father who lost their whole family in BTC2937 tragedy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Kaloyev
Russian mentality is just disgusting 🤢
The first accident is the reason pilots are now trained to completely disregard ATC instructions if a RA is occurring.
This is not true. They were trained to back then as well, that's always how it was supposed to work. The pilots simply screwed up.
@@jort93z 2002 edition of Tu-154M AFM disagrees with you. Pilots didn't screw up, they preferred ATC over TCAS because manual said so
No... the final investigation report states "The flight operations regulations of the TU154M operator and ICAO documents do not include
clear directives as to which actions the crew should take, if the instructions issued by ATC and
BFU Bundesstelle für Flugunfalluntersuchung
AX001-1-2/02 106
an RA contradict each other. They include, however, a clear statement that manoeuvres con-
trary to an RA are prohibited (“Запрещается выполнять команды противоположные тем,
которые выдает система.”)."
They descended even through the RA told them to climb -> they screwed up.@@V4ker
@@jort93z quoting AX001-1-2/02 80,
"TU154M Flight Operations Manual
The passage:
For the avoidance of in-flight collisions is the visual control of the situation in the airspace by the crew and the correct execution of all instructions issued by ATC to be regarded as the most important tool. TCAS is an additional instrument which ensures the timely determination of oncoming traffic, the classification of the risk and, if necessary, planning of an advice for a vertical avoidance manoeuvre...
made clear that ATC has the highest priority in the avoidance of collision risks"
@@jort93z "The flight operations regulations of the TU154M operator and ICAO documents [did] not include clear directives as to which actions the crew should take, if the instructions issued by ATC and an RA contradict each other." You contradicted your own statement. It was unclear at the time.
They made a movie about Peter Nielsen called "Aftermath"....based on this event.
@@ShoeSniffer-qu7gg oh ya. Instresting...can you prove that? I'll wait and give you time.
Props to the sas crew for keeping their badly damaged md-87 in the air for 12 seconds
Are we to assume that everyone on SAS perished? Where did the plane crash, on airport grounds?
Missing much info lately.
Google is my friend.
something is going on with the channel, they used to add such info... so sad 🥺
@getmeouttatennessee4473 I've noticed that info is missing too. This crash killed everyone on the md87, everyone on the Cessna, and 4 people on the ground. That is info that would normally be on here.
Less info and always 2 crashes lately
@@getmeouttatennessee4473 Everybody on board SAS686 perished. The MD87 touched back down on the ground right wing first and continued to slide along the ground with the captain applying full left reverse thrust and rudder to keep the plane from crashing into the airport terminal. The plane crashed into the terminal at some 150-160 knots and exploded.
Fog involved with the second collision…makes me think of Tenerife.
glenncabacungan9269 yes, even though this accident happen, it was not in the magnitude as in loss of life as the tenerife accident. To date the tenerife accident is still considered in the avaviation world as the most catastrophic accident that happened on the ground not in flight.
The odds of it happening were so small, like firing two guns in the air and having the bullets collide in mid air. Tragic beyond belief.
Human mistakes
not quite so small - passenger planes are flying along highways in the skies - standard altitudes - crossing paths - the odds are still against it - but not like random gun shots
@@johneyon5257 Well said. You beat me to it.
@@ARedMotorcycle - i should have pointed out that planes are a little bigger targets than bullets are
Yea, NO…..turn on a flight tracker around any airport or major hub….this is 24/7…it’s human error and carelessness…
The guy who murdered Peter Nelson found his daughter and her broken necklace at the base of a tree. It’s very sad to see pictures of her in her coffin after falling 30k feet to her death. Her body was intact due to the tree branches slowing her down before impact with the ground.
So the murderer found her body? Or rescuers found her body? Doesn't make sense that he would find her body first when it's the rescuers who would arrive at the spot first before anyone else.
@@kkb8510 The murderer is her father. And yes he was allowed to participate in the search and he found his daughters body intact under the tree.. He carried her dead body to where they had assembled a makeshift morgue so to speak.. Your not thinking about the fact that bodies rained down over a large area. The father arrived not long after the crash and just so happened to be walking in the hills away from the wreckage when he found her. The crash was at night not during the day, he found her the next morning after the crash.
They made the movie Aftermath (with Arnold Schwarzenegger) based off of this event. Good movie and such a sad story. Such a tragedy.
Have not reviewed that movie, perhaps will. In retrospect such an unfortunate accident. So many lives lost, it perhaps could have prevented if the russian cockpit pilots had followed there tcas display, rather than follow instructions of comptroller. My understanding is a different culture over the world. This incident could have been a preventable one.
Didn't I watch this on this channel like, 3 years ago?
I was wondering that, too! I definitely thought this story had already been covered.
I remember when TFC first released the original Uberlingen story about a year or two ago. I'm still shocked at how this happened. Definitely ATC error, but the controller didn't deserve to die... or did he?
Here's what you didn't know:
When Vitaly Kaloyev snuck into Peter Nielsen's yard and sat down waiting for him to come outside. Kaloyev confronted Nielsen about the accident that day, and was initially being nice to him and wanted an explanation and an apology for the disaster. He showed Nielsen a picture of his family, but then apparently Nielsen became complacent towards Kaloyev and tossed the photo onto the ground, enraging Kaloyev and sending him into a fury, which ended in Nielsen's death via several stab wounds to the stomach. Nielsen's children were outside with him and attempted to help him, but Nielsen's wife called them back to the house.
No
@@ShoeSniffer-qu7gg bro I wasn't talking to you
@@ShoeSniffer-qu7gg what war?
@@ShoeSniffer-qu7gg shut up
How do we know if this is how it really happened?
Why are you no longer indicating the fatalities on your videos? We would like to know no matter how harrowing.
I've never felt so sorry for a guy as I did for Peter, he had his hands full that night. Main computer shut down for maintenance and a analog phone. Two computer screens and each with active traffic.
That incident really fucked his life up. His wife left him, lost his job and worst of all had to live with the guilt. Even though he was innocent he still held on to some of the blame. Sadly he lost his life to a grieving father/husband who vowed to make him pay and done so.
Arnold Schwarzenegger made a movie about it called "Aftermath" which was pretty good.
Innocent? Instead of double checking with both crews what TCAS was instructing them to do or whether his command was in conflict with TCAS, he just told the Russians to descend, no follow-up and left the frequency to check on an inbound flight. No big deal, it's not like he was overseeing a potential mid-air collision with lives on the line
@@themountain3461 did we watch the same video, guy was watching not one but two monitors at the same time. His colleague went for a nap on top of maintenance that night. To add insult to injury it was a busier than usual night. By the time he spotted the then unavoidable crash was too late. Due to all that was down that night he was cleared of any wrong doing. He couldn't keep up with communication with not just those two jets. He had multiple jets to see oversee.
@@ronaldsteele6151 yes and no, I watched this video and also the Mayday acted out documentary where they show him as if he just directs the Russian plane to descend and leaves to handle another screen and frequency where a plane is heading in to Friedrichshafen.
Go check it out.
I mean, it's not like the blame is entirely on him. Both the Russian and DHL planes could confirm with him that TCAS wants them to ascend and descend, respectively and give him a heads-up that TCAS has spotted the issue. This lack of willingness to double and triple check everything drives me nuts
I feel very sad of the victims of both disasters. I admit that pieter neilson (Air traffic controller) was on mistake but there was much workload and pressure on his shoulders and this was not enough, the ground based optical collision warning system was also under maintenance........I feel very sorry for his murder...very bad
The ground radar system wasnt under maintenance, it was never installed and still in the crates and boxes.
I agree. According to the final report he did indeed make a crucial mistakes but he did that within a poor environment that originates from bad management of sky guide
They are the ones who put the controller in a very difficult situation and unfortunately he wasn't able to handle that situation.
We also must consider contributing factors as culture, no clear rules being in force when jt comes to whether to listen to atc or tcas.
Realizing also that maintainance had intervened shut down many if his systems, telephone, radar capabilities.
Neilson did not make a mistake even though he was dealt a poor hand. He issued the order to separate the planes and he did it in time. He didn't know about the TCAS alerts. It was the Russians who screwed up by not giving priority to TCAS instructions which is standard procedure in the Western world.
@@nickv4073 Don't take the blame off Nielsen. He played his part in the tragedy. In Russia, it is customary to give priority to the controller's commands. And if he had figured out the situation in time, the tragedy would not have happened. Of course, it does not justify killing him. The killer, Vitaly Kaloev lost his whole family. All of it! And he was in a state of passion
I was in Linate some years ago and they improved a lot due to this accident. You cannot even start to taxi from the GA apron (which is opposite to the terminal) without having a follow-me in front of you.
Both cases very sad with a huge impact on air safety measures. After Überlingen no crew will ignore a RA from TCAS. They will ignore the ATC and inform them later.
I think this video was just not finished. How did the second accident end? Casualties, loss of aircraft?
You have to watch his older video, this is the compiled video of that
To answer your question,The SAS crashed into the baggage warehouse, killing everyone and 4 people inside the warehouse
everything went kaput
@@hksp ?
@@Randomly_Browsing😅
Two very sad story's. The 1st story almost seemed like it was destined to happen. Even though the pilots of both airplanes thought they were avoiding a collision, they were actually arranging for a collision.
Nothing is ever “destined to happen”. Especially when considering the reason 2 planes collided… The controller was at fault. Very unfortunate situation for everybody involved.
@@AV4Life controller isn't at fault, he was left to manage more airspace than than he should've been legalled allowed to, couldn't even contact the DHL crew because of maintenance works. What he did was correct, he gave the Russian crew instructions to avoid a collision, but in aviation TCAS always takes priority. The Russians didnt follow TCAS because they were trained to listen to the controller over TCAS. Which isn't their fault either, because they just followed what they were trained to do. No one was at fault, just many unlucky factors that all came together to cause the accident. If one of those small factors didn't happen then there would've been no collision.
@@roucey8580 According to the accident investigation: “The following immediate causes have been identified: the imminent separation infringement was not noticed by ATC in time. The instruction for the TU154M was given at a time when the prescribed separation to the B757-200 could not be ensured anymore.” The report also placed blame on the Russians for not following what their TCAS was saying. Also, the communication error with the 757 you’re talking about is contradicted by the final report. Now it’s possible I missed something, but the report states “(no) technical defects of the two airplanes”
Look, I agree with you that’s an unfortunate situation that the controller was in, and his management being prosecuted in court reflects that. But, according to accident investigation, the controller was still mostly at fault.
@@AV4Life
This WAS NOT the traffic controller's fault. This was ENTIRELY the fault of the company management pinching pennies. They and they alone should have been held responsible.
The controller was overloaded and should have rejected to work in those conditions Yes! (not enough eyes on the job) But it seems like the pressure came from above in mangement, and that is a major Catastrophe! After this accident there was pressure on pilots to always follow a TCAS warning first and ATC second. Computers talking (TCAS systems working together, climb vs decent) together never gets overloaded tired or stressed...( ok they can but not within this tested TCAS system) always TCAS warning first. @@AV4Life
The crash was over *Germany.* Not sure why people don't accurately identify countries anymore.
Just say EU. Thats the country.
@@CJMVector321190
EU is not a country. Just learn some geography.
3:03
I believe in todays date TCAS warnings are taken as priority 1 warning over ATC warnings ⚠️ pilot has to take evasive actions as per TCAS first n then check ATC advisory
The channel is back. YAY
I was flying from New Orleans to Albuquerque and during to the flight I noticed the engines revving up and we starting climbing. Subtle, but because of this channel I am so hyperaware of everything on flights now.
About 1 minute later, I’m looking out the window at the ground and a smaller regional jet flys about 200-300 ft underneath us.
It’s just amazing to me because even with all the mistakes you would think the odds are so astronomically against a collision occurring that it would never happen.
Something missed in the first video is that the controller was also dealing with an emergency landing.
Ok, so what happened to the SAS plane? No mention of that.
donnabaard5372 sas plane after hitting the cessna, continued to stay airborne; pilots inputs taking the plane away from the passenger terminal. Outcome was they crashed into a baggage building, all lost on that flight, including individuals that were working in that building. Its unfortunate, sad, if the fire brigade had gotten to the cessna earlier, occupants were still alive, they passed as well. Weather was a contributing factor, no ground radar, they had received that shipment but never was installed. The airport for a while, had not done any revamping of the taxiways or runways in reference to markings.
I’m not a pilot nor have I had any formal flight instruction, but I do understand how the TCAS works. I know that pilots can become overwhelmed with data and conditions but it seems blatantly obvious to me that if my TCAS is telling me to climb, it will be telling the “intruder” to descend. For me to continue to descend without immediately contacting the ATC to clarify seems insane.
The way it works is the pilots do what the TCAS tells them to do! In cruse flight things are pretty mellow as demonstrated by a pilot going to the lave for a bathroom break so they where in a low task workload phase of flight.Things are done in this order always 1 aviate, 2 Navigate, and finally 3 is communicate. If an aircraft gives a TCAS warning and a conflict resolution of what direction to fly that is what the flying pilot does, not stop and talk about it with ATC.
I read about this incident before and it was said that before this specific collision, there were no protocol/resolution when TCAS and ATC are giving two different instructions. Who’s given more priority, TCAS or ATC? After the Uberlingen tragedy, NTSB decided that, when given two differing instructions, pilots should prioritize TCAS’s
@hellofromrob Your comment here shows you’ve had no formal training or instruction. The flight deck is generally a calm atmosphere, at night in the cruise alerts of this kind are always accompanied by some kind of startle effect which throws half the pilots clarity out of the window. As mentioned by somebody else, back in those days no formal protocol existed as to following TCAS or following the controller, as it was the controllers instruction virtually coincided with TCAS. To call pilots actions “insane” is unwarranted as they did the best they could under difficult circumstances, many many air crashes have happened where the pilots actions seem counter intuitive but it is oh so easy to judge from the comfort and safety of the ground - think Air France 447.
@@onlytruth2661 Your comment here shows you haven't even bothered to read the very first sentence of @hellofromrob comment -
@hellofromrob
6 days ago
I’m not a pilot nor have I had any formal flight instruction
@@dougbrown8331Only little problem being of course that there are not just these two planes in the airspace. Maybe ATC who has much more information than you knows about that other, non-TCAS equiped plane near you and therefore provides you with proper instructions, but you decide to follow TCAS against ATC command right into the next collision?
great content as always 👂
maybe watch it first
An important fact here is the way TCAS works. The designers realized that there might be no clear way to avoid collisions, and so they introduced the requirement that the two TCAS systems, one on each airplane, have the ability to talk to each other and work out a plan of action. The problem with that is that the controllers don't know what the black boxes worked out, and the pilots only know half of it, what their TCAS tells them. Thus the system can and does come to the state that the controller and the TCAS are giving conflicting information. I believe the latest take on this by the FAA is that the TCAS takes priority over what the controller is saying.
Correct, the international standard now with modern TCAS is to listen to the TCAS system and ignore any contradictory instructions from the controller.
That still would be very dangerous, given that there might be other, non-TCAS equiped planes around. At the end, only the ATC has the complete situational awareness of the airspace to make properly informed decisions. TCAS should only be the very last emergency measure if everything else fails.
There should be a way for the ATC to see that TCAS is issuing directions and have it immediately print out for them what the plan for avoidance is. System needs an upgrade badly!!
@@woodsie5474 Agreed, but TCAS came about when there was no real ability to communicate data back to ATC. The bad news is there still isn't. The FAA is far behind the curve here. What data transfer capability exists was instituted by the airlines, not the FAA, and ATC has to relay the data to the airline corporate offices. There is also FIS or Flight Information Services, but this is mainly one way, ATC to airplane, and at the moment has no capability for TCAS to send data to the ground.
What the FAA needs is digital radio service to replace the present analog one. I don't expect to see that in my lifetime.
It is sad that so many aviation incidents are happening at the start of every year, we had JAL 516 and the other Alaska incident this year, Yeti Airlines last year, and Sriwijaya in 2021 all happening around New Year's time...
Didn’t say how many died in the 2nd story??
Nope.
Listen to Tupolev Voice recorder on the impact then downfall is terrifying
Has always wonder what was their thought when they spotted DHL plane, and those kids "if" any of them saw that tale right before collision (unless they were sleeping, just waking up during climbing)
I think we should think of ideas to give this channel a boost
Thought that Charki Dadri collision which is even worse would also be covered in the video since you were covering the subject.
May all the victims rest in peace 🙏
Why did neither pilot tell ATC of the conflicting TCAS instructions? In similar videos of crashes, TCAS was ignored. Why install TCAS if it isn’t trusted?
The issue with that was that the russian crew of the tupolev was schooled that the atc has more authority than tcas so they disregared it.
@@joachimgoudschaal8927what any the pilot of the other plane then?
@@kkb8510 The DHL plane did follow the TCAS and did inform the ATC (8:25). The transmission probably got ignored/lost. Ironically, had the DHL also ignored the TCAS the collision wouldn't have happened.
I love this channel, but the videos are repeating
I have not seen this video and I been subbed for a long time and you're be surprised that must subbers don't watch every upload.
This is a sad, sad, hurtful situation.
oh wow
Not mentioned in much of the narrative is a third aircraft delayed into a nearby airport (and unresponsive phone there) that distracted Nielsen and was a significant cause for the fatal delay in him realizing the conflict.
I have to disagree. While there was a third plane in the airspace which was having comm issues. the primary significant cause for this accident is the fact that it had become acceptable to allow a single controller to monitor such a large airspace and dual scopes while their colleague took an extended break. The secondary significant cause was the fact that the Russian pilots followed the ATC instructions instead of their TCAS resolution commands. RIP to all the innocent souls lost and condolences to the families.
@@gailpeterson3747so what is the standard procedure like? Do pilots have to follow tcas if there is a conflict or what? Just curious.
@@kkb8510 I am not a pilot, but I have read the regs on the subject. Whenever TCAS II gives a RA, flight crew MUST follow it even if it is contrary to instructions received from the ATC.
"This necessity is supported by ICAO SARPs and by IR-OPS (and EU-OPS 1), which require that "An operator shall establish procedures to ensure that:
... When undue proximity to another aeroplane (RA) is detected by ACAS, the commander or the pilot to whom conduct of the flight has been delegated must ensure that any corrective action indicated by the RA is initiated immediately, unless doing so would jeopardize the safety of the aeroplane..."
You forgot that the flight 686 after the impact crashed into a baggage terminal
Überlingen 2002 😔
I visited the memorial 1-2 years ago and I want to visit it this year again!
jfc, that was terrifying.
The potential for conflicting TCAS and ATC instructions be given at the same time without one having clear priority is truly suprising. I assumed the designers of TCAS would have thought of this possibility and dealt with it with some simple rule from the outset. I hope it has been resolved since then.
Ok, so I've looked it up, it was clearly designed so that TCAS would have priority over ATC (as it makes sense). However, in usual Russian sloppiness and compliant fashion, this was not translated in a clear and unambiguous manner for the Tupolev handbooks, so the pilots were not aware of it, and this clearly was the root cause of the whole accident. Sure, other factors contributed, but this was the main factor in my opinion.
@@benjamin_markus1 year prior the same thing almost happened in Japan, would you blame the "usual Japanese sloppiness" there too?
@@adastra4741 not really, because there's no such thing
This is one of the saddest crashes😢
Bruh
@@ShoeSniffer-qu7gg Nice bait.
Bruh
The 2017 movie Aftermath starring Arnold Schwarzenegger is based on the first accident.
Wow, I was just about to comment that the first accident was a great plot for a movie.
Repost?
I of course knew about the first mid-air collision (prob the 2nd worst disaster in aviation history after Tenerife) but I knew NOTHING of that second one in Italy (which ironically is very similar to the Tenerife disaster since fog and inaccurate taxi direction led to the collision on the runway). Rest in pace to all of the victims
Did you just reupload your Uberlingen collision and Linate disaster videos as a single video?
He did this all the time
Hello, please make a reconstruction of the events of the collision of two TU 134 over Dneprodzerzhinsk on August 11, 1979. Thank you
The CVR recordings from both planes is frightening as all hell.
Is the audio available somewhere, or only text transcripts?
@@timothyconard2825 The audio for both planes are available. They are on RUclips somewhere.
this video is repeated. I have watched the other THC video like 10 times especially the cockpit falling part.
Much of there are re-uploads. Why?
Adjusting to the new formats of writing?
RIP Peter Nielsen 😢😢😢😢
Which simulator did you use and which models for the Überlingen incident?
So this is why DHL package never arrived ?
The subsequent murder of the controller might come across as revenge. In fact, this was an expression of the great desperation. At that point of time, it looked like everyone would escape punishment... Well the main culprit - Skyguide ended up getting away with that.
For me it was an act of an animal. The father no matter how big gis grief, no matter how much we understand what he did, he acted like an animal. He was smiling in cameras when he returned home and talked about the murder.
In a documentary he proudly spoke about how well deserved that was.
This was almost 2 decades after the murder.
If he at least admitted that he was indeed in great pain, didn't know what to do and committed a horrible crime, an unforgivable mistake and feels ashamed, I could accept it as a human failure because after all we are humans.
But there was no shred of that in any of his sentences. No remorse. No regrets. Only pride.
For me he is an animal.
I alao want to add that there are families who lost all their children. Mother who lost their only child. We won't know if anyone would have done the same but to the day, noone did and I belive no one would.
He however came with a clear intention to kill and not as he claims "to talk, to give him a chance to justify himself".
@@adennis200 I agree. Nobody takes a knife along just to talk. This is a tragic story of coincidence, negligence, pain and suffering.
Violence is never a solution. For Trump it’s a means to an end. Avoid jail.
There's "black box" recording after impact from both aircraft. The Russian pilots are gasping for air and one tells the other, I told you it was coming from the left!
Its so unfortunate that the Russian pilots, did not adhere to the tcas system, rather to the comptroller. Like in other comments they first listen to atc, rather that to the craft systems. So what is the logic for installing that feature, if it is not used.
@@kay9549 The pilots were following ATC, which was consistent with their training at the time.
@@janeryan2709 yes understand completely. The training given to pilots, depending on what country you are receiving training. Realizing that this incident did occur a while ago, hopefully training programs have improved, rely on systems that are put in place. Sometimes that is not always the case, depending on situation (s) that may arise. Sometimes its best to fly the craft, hopefully all works out for the best.
It is so sad that no one survived! My goodness, I can’t begin to imagine the terror of those people on board of both planes. It was a terrible tragedy.
The controller might have made mistakes giving the instructions, but what I find most appalling was having only one (1) controller, one person, in charge having so many planes to attend to! This poor man had way too much work to do. and when this happens, mistakes are made. There should have been more controllers rather than just one (1) Unbelievable, I hope they learned from this tragedy and hired more controllers to deal with all the air traffic! I believe this accident could have been avoided having more personnel (controllers) working on that day. Smh In addition, to know that Mr. Nielsen was murdered, tops the tragedy that happened on the air. WOW. I am shocked.
May all the victims Rest in Peace always 🙏💐
First accident: why were both flights, travelling in different directions, at the same flight level? I thought there was a standard 1000’ vertical separation for cross-heading traffic?
There heading to different destination
Regardless of what happened the Poor air controller didnt deserve to be killed infrotn of his kids. It was still at the end of day not a willful act but a horrible mistake. He was overworked and out of his depth at that time but he didnt deliberately do this.
ATC and Pilots neeeeeed to slow down their verbal cadence. I get it that they do this every day and it becomes rote over the years, but c'mon. If it wasn't for the subtitles on this channel I'd have no idea what they are saying half the time.
A number of years ago my young son asked me; “Daddy, where do airplanes come from ? Your thumbnail tells the story. Without those embarrassing photos. Today my son is the San Francisco airport station manager for Southwest Air.
Ummm. Isn't this a repeat video?? Again? Going to have to rename it the deja vu channel.
Why are flight levels not dependent upon direction? N= 1000, E= 1250, S= 1500, W= 1750? This might help inform adjustments as well.
In the US they are. North and east flights are on odd number flight levels 350 370 etc. while south and west flights are on even numbers 340 360 etc. not sure if that’s the case in Europe though
If TCAS tells you to climb, you climb. If it tells you to descend, you descend. This is one of the very few times you are told to blatantly disregard any instruction given by ATC. The correct response to ATC is "in a TCAS climb" or "in a TCAS descent" and you follow the TCAS instruction until it reports "clear of conflict" in that regard it could be claimed the Russian plane's pilot was at fault BUT the ATC company and its directors should have been given a far greater sentence, it almost amounted to corporate manslaughter due to gross negligence. The controller no more deserved to lose his life, though, any more than did the people on the two aircraft. I believe after this accident, the importance of following TCAS instructions was made100% clear to all commercial and haulage airline pilots. TCAS incidents are reportable as "near misses" as it is a loss of required separation.
Yes, but all these you mention were not part of the standard practices when this accident happened. In fact, they made it clear what to do when such a TCAS RA comes up, because of this accident.
Those regulations about TCAS were only applied in the Western world. In Russia, regulations dictated that ATC had priority over TCAS, and pilots were taught to follow this principle. So i think it’s not the company that’s at blame but rather the differences in aviation rules and mentality.
@@yungsh0ttalex592 No one person should ever, EVER be left on their own to monitor two different radar screens so yes, the company and its rule breaking played a huge part in the accident. As for Russian aviation well that's probably why when compared to Europe and the USA it has a terrible safety record.
13:27. Text says Cessna requests permission to start up engines, while the video shows it in flight. I think I figured out the issue already.
@enigmawyoming5201
it pays to listen *and* watch 😂
Can you do one about TAN-SAHSA Flight 414?
How were mid air collisions still happening in 2002!?!
Damn, I didn't know ATC/pilot audio was made available. Where did you get this?
Not only was Skyguide negligent for unsafe practices but so was the Tupolev pilot, perhaps even more so. He did not inform ATC that his TCAS was instructing him to CLIMB. Instead he blindly followed ATC instructions ignoring his instruments. If he had informed the ATC the controller most likely would have taken a loser look at the situation and given both planes proper instructions.
How in earth with so much sky. It's like 2 kayaks colliding in the pacific ocean.
this is always my worst fear when flying, colliding with another aircraft, im suprised it doesnt happen more often looking at flightradar it looks so busy in the sky
So did the Cessna customers buy the plane or not?
Why does this guy upload like the same two videos a bunch of times. This and twa 800, he keeps reuploading.
There’s actually a movie, “Aftermath”, based on the first collision. Arnold Schwarzenegger plays the man whose family died and hunts down the ATC and kills him. Haven’t watched as, well, doesn’t have such great reviews, but may yet watch as would be interesting to see how subject handled.
The mid-air collision is not depicted correctly. When two aircraft travelling at constant speed and direction collide they stay at constant bearing from each other until the collision. The pilots don't see the other plane crossing from one side to the other but rather at a fixed bearing and getting closer. If it seems to be crossing you won't hit it.
Having no clue how this turns out, I write at 8 minutes to say OHHHH MYYY GOOODDD. If it wasnt so horrifying, it would be a comedy of errors - a French Farce - a Laurel &Hardy sketch or something involving Charlie Chaplin.
I KNOW it's always easy to be a clever bastard after the fact - but I cannot help express my reaction to this situation. Perhaps I'm also expressing my ignorance - and that's fine, I am happy to be educated but this scenario seems the perfect demonstration off why AI will be such a disaster
Really sad but such an avoidable collision. If you're going to tell one plane to descend, you can tell the other to maintain flight level.
I swear companies are something else with all the relaxed rules.
Good morning. One tiny correction. The Tupolev is not a 154M its a 154B-2 one.
Corrections are supposed to be correct... It was an M.
Hearing the Audio makes this tragedy even more chilling, just sad and totally avoidable those russian pilots with an assist from Nielsen.
bro i you did this video before if i'm not wrong
Well that certainly took a dark turn about the ATC dude...
So tragic!
This was a hard watch....
i wonder whats inside of heads in DHl plane when he going down
What happened in the second crash story, it didn't mention deaths and if any survived, I assume none did but it's pretty routine to still mention it.
Dammit this could have been avoided if we follow golden rule of just listening to TCAS
Wait, didnt you already upload this? Im concerned that your focusing on crashes that you did instead of new ones. (like JAL 516 and ALASKA 1282)
PS: im talking about uberligen not sas
This has been happening a lot lately!
В видео используется модель не Ту-154М, а ранняя модификация Б или А
Ну используется, и используется…