Music Chat: Tips On Organizing Your Collection
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Many of you have asked me what I believe is the best way to organize a large collection of physical recordings (CDs, LPs, and such). So here are my own simple suggestions--it's what works for me and permits me to find what I want to hear without making myself crazy. Will it work for you? I can't say, but hopefully you'll find some of these tips useful.
The US Department of Defense needs to officially designate you the custodian of our nation’s Strategic Classical Music CD Reserves.
I'm a newbie with 9 classical CDs. Thanks to this video, I know where to file my two Reiner CDs with multiple composers.
Glad to be of help.
And my wife complains I have too many CDs. But she never has enough clothes!
I think it was jazz critic Gary Giddins who told the story of visiting jazz baritonist Gerry Mulligan in his home and being a bit baffled by the seemingly chaotic way he organised his large LP collection, yet always seemed to find things in a blink of an eye. It turns out that it was, indeed, sorted alphabetically - but not necessarily by the leader of a certain session. Say, if he thought Herbie Hancock had a particularly strong contribution on a Miles Davis record, he could decide to file that Miles record under H.
It's like filing Karajan's Ring cycle not under W, nor K, but T... because you think that Martti Talvela's done the best job of all the people involved.
It makes sense why Gerry would remember so well where they were on the shelves, then 😂
A tip on how to easily fix the sagging shelves: get them out and put them upside down, so that the weight of the cds could deform them back (and repeat after a while).
Like flipping your bed mattress every so often.
Holy Cra@p, David, why have I only discovered you in the last few weeks!!? If only I’d known to look for you during covid, it would have made the last couple of years so much more enjoyable! Organizing my CDs has always been a thorn in my side, and two of your points make SO much sense: 1) Order your collection in a way that makes sense to YOU, and 2) It’s not always about being able to find something instantly, sometimes the quest can be fun!
I was one of those guys who have created a rather detailed computer database of their CDs. I took a great pleasure from that task, in fact! But I’ve been completely into digital for more than 10 years. I still have my CD collection, but it’s kind of hidden in a closet and hasn’t been used since 2005. As a matter of fact, I don’t own a CD player any longer. But I miss those days - buying classical CDs in a underdeveloped country was quite a challenge but also lots of fun.
I converted my CDs into digital (FLAC) files several years ago and haven’t looked back since. My whole collection, plus more recent downloads, fits onto the 500 GB SSD of my laptop. Years ago, finding myself annoyed at the UK’s Gramophone Catalogue alphabetical listing, which I thought impeded exploration of particular periods of music, I wrote to them to suggest that they list everything in order of year of birth of the composer, so you’d get a kind of searchable history of music. They wrote back to say that shop assistants who knew little of classical music wouldn’t be able to use it. Anyway, my digital collection is catalogued that way and it works well. Compilations are labeled by the year of birth of the composer of the first track. Compilations like Dave’s wide-ranging Ormondy collection are just broken up, with each piece given its own folder.
By the way, if you buy downloads from Presto Classical they keep them available for future listening.
Yes, it takes time to rip a mass of CDs and rewrite a lot of metadata, but it's worth it. I keep two backup disk drives just in case.
@@heron6462 I own a large cd collection. I haven't yet taken the plunge to digital storage. My question for you is what software program do you use for your database? Much of the software seems to be based on artist only and not classical multi movement symphonies etc. And what do you mean when you say "rewrite metadata?" Thank you for any advice you can give me.
@@EnriqueHernandez-zk7qc Thank you.
Chronogical order does it for me. For loose CDS, composer birth dates are the first criterion, and when there are several composers on a CD, I file it under the one who takes up the most minutes. Boxes are easier to find if I keep them together. My CDs number close to 4,000, of which around 3,200 are classical, so it's much easier than if they were 90k or so. For jazz and rock and whenever it's convenient, performer birth dates can substitute for the actual "composers".
Dave,
Compared to you I'm an armature. But that’s a good thing to be too. Not all of us want to be pros. Now, the basis of my organization is Nationality, i.e. American, British, French, German, Russian, Italian, Spanish; I could go on. But you get the point. Within each Nationality, next comes Composers. But the Composers are arranged in rough chronological order. So Schutz comes before Bach, who comes before Haydn, who comes before Mozart, who comes before Beethoven. Again you get the point. Within the composer category, there is Orchestral Music, which has separate places for Symphonies, Tone Poems, Ballet, Suites etc. Then come Concertos, Chamber Music and then Instrumental Music such as Piano, Violin , Cello etc. So that covers the majority of my collection. However, I also set aside an Artist/Performer category. This has several subsections, Conductors, Pianists, Violinists, Cellists etc. I also set aside a category for Opera grouping by Nationality & then Composers in chronological order. Finally, I just have a pile of my most recent purchases. So that's the gist of how I do it. There are exceptions or arbitrary choices. I count Handel as British, though he was ethnically German & Franck as French, though he was Belgian. For instance, I don't have that many other Belgian composers to justify that as a Nationality. I do have enough Polish composers to so classify Chopin. My collection is small enough so I can do things this way. It's really what works for me, so I can find what I'm looking for, not because I'm an order nerd, which I don’t think I am. But maybe I'm wrong. If so, so what! It works for me.
Mark Lee
Austin, Tx
If it works for you, it can't be wrong.
I file them (in case that there are only one composer's works on a CD) in the order of the composer's birthday and year, so it begins at the early renaissance and ends with film scores (btw: I don't like Horner, too, and on the other side I have some scores of films I never watched, especially by Goldsmith). I think it makes more sense to store Rameau next to Graupner and Heinichen than to Rautavaara and Ravel. Sometimes I'm looking for a particular work or composer, but sometimes I just want to listen to e. g. baroque music. The mixed composer's CDs have their own shelves, and some conductors and soloists have theirs, too. Thank you very much for all the great videos. Keep on broadcasting!
I file by birthdate of the composer too. In addition to your arguments, I like the visual overview of music history. 1685 takes up a lot of shelf space...
Planet of the Apes, by Goldsmith- a surprisingly strong avante garde soundtrack! It would be cool for David to review 'classically- noteworthy' soundtracks.
@@lotusholder Yes, indeed, and so is Logan's run, too!
@@richardguenther5117 Thanks, saw the film as a kid, but hadn't recalled it- went back and listened to Goldsmith's work for it- and liked it! Plan to purchase a copy. I do like a number of the offbeat examples in this genre, by Goldsmith, Schifrin, Corigliano (Altered States), etc.
A really cool work in this regard is Clint, by a Swedish jazz ensemble named Oddjob- it's a series of interpretations of soundtrack pieces for 'classic' Clint Eastwood films, originally penned by Schifrin, Morricone, and others. I'm not particular an Eastwood fan or fan of these films, but IMO this album is superb! Also surprisingly good IMO is some of the music for Star Trek TOS (not the later series, just the original one, and not the opening theme, but the more 'incidental' music- one hears the modernist influences in it- in fact, just recently heard a snippet and could hear little echoes of stuff from the Rite of Spring). It's interesting to listen to it on its own, without watching the shows- one hears it in a different light, I think.
I follow a similar method only I just batch things into 3 main categories of early/baroque, classical/ romantic, and contemporary. It makes sense in my head even though it's not a perfect science.
I started using a database when I found myself ordering CDs I already had! Works a treat - I always check now before ordering a new CD and of course a database can list in whatever order you want - composer, works, artists, label, notes (at least that's how I designed mine). I know I could just look on my shelves but my music room is 2 floors away from my imac!
I recently bought the Kubelik box only to find I already had it. How did I miss the first one!!!! Always enjoy your videos!!!
Woof! I feel l am swiftly heading toward the same fate as my collection seemingly doubles at an unnecessary pace.
relatable.
The librarian of my university music library organised all the scores by the composer’s date of birth. That may seem ridiculously complicated, but I got used to it, and I started organising my CD collection that way. I quite like the idea that the leftmost top shelf has early music and the rightmost bottom shelf has music composed in the 21st century. It works for me, but it initially confuses guests.
I would die for a movie score video series. Movie music can be so wonderful!! Especially the great romantic scores of 50s movies.
I'd love to do it, but I want to play samples and copyright is always a problem.
Presumably some of the early ‘classical’ scores - Korngold, Rózsa, Herrmann, Arnold, Alwyn etc.are available but it’s a pity the genre as a whole can’t be considered.
Nice tip Dave, I will try it right away
Interesting how we both file our CDs the same way, The only difference is that I've files all of the piano CDs separately in double layer shelves, by composer except for performer collections. The piano boxes, however, all live separately, double layered. All of the piano stuff is in my music studio, where I have my reviewing/radio producing desk on one side, and my composing desk on the other, and the desk tabletops lie on top of long file cabinets where my scores live. Amazingly, nothing's cluttered!
Miniature scores in file cabinets, too? That's the thing about scores, they come in a myriad of sizes, unlike CDs or LPs, from tiny to tall, even 18".
I do have a "new" pile. I rarely put something into my main collection without listening to it at least twice.
I organize by composer in kind of a hybrid system - chronologically up to about 1830, then by nationality of the composer going chronologically within nationality. Baroque and classical era are in their own areas by composer. For romantic and beyond, there is a Czech section with Smetana-Dvorak-Suk-Janacek-Martinu, a French section that goes from Berlioz to Dutilleux, etc. It comes in handy because a lot of discs or small box sets tend to put Debussy and Ravel together, or Prokofiev and Shostakovich, etc.
That's exactly what I do, except I've been treating the early Romantics as an international group (perhaps I'll move Berlioz, Chopin and Liszt into their respective French, Polish and Hungarian sections). I'd thought the system was my own invention, but I suppose there's a sound musicological basis for it.
I do something very similar, though within each section I go chronologically (by birth date). I have a Scandinavian section which includes the Finns, but someone else might lump the Finns separately with the Estonians (Tubin & Part). As long as you can find things, there are a number of systems that might work, though where does one put a disc that has Martinu and Ravel in any system? I'm too lazy to do a database for myself, though I'm (among other things) a web designer ... I'd rather listen than file!
@@mfkush2931 Well, I keep my copy of the Ravel piano trio played by Heifetz, Piatigorsky and Rubinstein, which is coupled with a duo for violin and cello by Martinu (among other pieces), in the French section, as the Ravel is the longer work.
I do mine semi-chronologically, mostly as discussed for the Classical, Romantic, Modern, etc. (Era>>Nationality/School>>Composer), but then as follows:
Medieval European is mostly organized by genre (e.g. Latin liturgical chant) and then chronologically, and with a separate special section for Orthodox liturgical (which includes that genre all the way up through Rachmaninoff).
I then divide Renaissance and Baroque by the informal "school" or center (since my collection has certain strong concentrations, and lots of albums focused on "where/when" and not "who"). So I put English Tudor music (e.g. Byrd, Tallis, Morley) together; likewise with the Greater Venetian Baroque (Gabrieli to Vivaldi), Iberian & Ibero-American (Spanish, Portuguese, Mexican, Brazilian, etc.), Versailles (Lully, etc.), the London Golden Age (Blow to Arne), etc.. I will note that harpsichord &c. music has its own separate section instead (ordered chronologically).
Compilations are ordered into their relevant category of specificity, general > specific (e.g. a "Best of Baroque" album would be near the head of the Baroque section generally; whereas a "Friends of Monteverdi" album would be in the Venetian Baroque subsection)
Finally, due to space constraints and my curating them as separate collections, minimal music and film scores both have their own entirely separate storage location and arrangement schemas.
Here for Bernard Herrmann! Soundtracks have a separate shelf. Great advice. I have a pianist section separate, alphabetized by artist. Operas are in their own case, alphabetical by title. Working with a MUCH smaller collection than your impressive libraries.
Well, for me digital music (downloads and ripped CD's) is the solution. It is very convenient because digital files have meta-data that are indexed on my music server. And that way I have instant access, be it by composer, performer, genre. And mst important it saves you a lot of space. Everything is stored on a hard disk that barely takes any space. But that is me.
I agree. My collection is in the region of 10k CDs ripped onto my iTunes. That way I can find my genre or artist or composer etc. artist is always filed with the following logic.
Great video and advice. Small correction: It was in Search for Spock where Horner stole from Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet during the Enterprise destruction. In Wrath of Khan, Horner stole from Alexander Nevsky as the Reliant chased the Enterprise into the Mutara Nebula. Sorry, I'm a pedantic nerd.
Thanks for the corrections! That's very helpful.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Alas, I was only 17 when Search for Spock was released, and didn't know Horner cribbed from Prokofiev until years later when I heard the Romeo & Juliet score (the Maazel/Cleveland recording, iirc).
Andrew Lloyd Webber also borrowed from Prokofiev. Note the similarity between Nevsky’s Battle on the Ice to Phantom of the Opera.
Horner also stole from “War and Peace” for the film “Glory.”
@@alanbriker6398 Webber also pinched from slow mvt of mendelssohn violin concerto.I don,t know how to love him etc.I do not know or care the title of the song from Evita.
I like your idea of 'not planning every minute of listening'. I think I've made that my mantra: most of music listening is done by a randomiser. I have no idea (though I can exercise control if I want) what I will be listening to from one piece to another. For that, of course, everything must be digitised and then organised strictly (by composer/primary_artist/recording_year). Once it's organised, I can say "Play previously unplayed recordings" or "Play something by Britten" or "Play operas" or "Play anything you like provided it's not a ballet" , "Play stuff where Callas is a performer" or "Play anything that doesn't include Joan Sutherland" and so on. The music player then just picks stuff that matches my selection criteria. I am forever discovering new stuff I'd long forgotten I owned :)
I cannot rely on my memory of what I own. I'm up to 1.6TB of lossless music files: at 300MB per compressed CD, that's about 6000 CDs, which is not big, but is bigger than my brain can deal with!
Two other comments: (1) composer is king for me, so when you get a CD containing a symphony by Mozart and one by Beethoven, that becomes two separate rips, stored separately. The physical CD is, therefore, merely a delivery mechanism, and I do not organise by CD in the slightest. The content is king and its composer is the principle organising key. And (2) I organise by composer first name: my Haydn will be stored under J, and my Beethoven under L. Because I feel I know them better as people by thinking of them on first name terms. It confuses everyone else I know when I tell them the Shostakovich is all under 'D'. But there you go: as you say, "it works for me"!
Fundamentally, though I get where you're coming from with the 'listening is much more important than organising', I can't help thinking that organising properly is key to being able to listen. It's because I did databases professionally probably: well-organised data is data that you can find, use and work with. Using exclusively digital music on a hard disk, and consigning all my physical media to a big, chaotic box in the loft is what makes that workable for me.
But anyway: I was one of those that asked you how you organised things. I'm very grateful to you for making this video and sharing your own approach. I had thought you'd maybe mention 'I have a little list' or 'a notebook or two', and was surprised you do it only by physical arrangement on a shelf. So I learned something and am appreciative! All the best,
I had to write my own. All other players talk of albums and artists, not composers and compositions, etc. And no other player has a randomisation function that randomises compositions, but doesn't muck up the order of movements within the composition, etc.
Freely available on my website, but you'll have to be running Linux for it to work, I'm afraid!
Ah, life tore my CD collection away over the decades: moves, floods, and thieves. The arrangement was by period: pre-16th century, baroque, classical (in divisions of time), romantic (divisi), and composer within each variation. Compilations got sorted much like you do, by reason I got it in the first place. Alas, moving from house to small apartment is death to every collection, books, toys, music, scores of operas, etc., and of course CDs.
Aside: I saved Bruckner until my sixties because I wanted something special to discover. Swathes of chamber music got the same treatment. You've been very helpful in finding performances and recordings that don't sound like they were recorded in a high school gymnasium.
This is what I do, except when I reach the mid-Romantics I start dividing by nationality (as the composers themselves did).
Rare: thieves that will steal classical recordings!
I have my LPs cataloged - Baroque, Clasical, Romantic, etc. Each period is filed alphabetically by composer. Each composer is filed by genre. All LPs are inventoried in an Excell sheet.
I file them in the order i buy them. I like looking at my shelf and being surprised. Or maybe im just lazy.
I've had good luck organizing a composer's works using the old Penguin Guide system: Orchestral/Chamber/Solo keyboard/Vocal/Opera. As Dave says, organizing collections, compilations, et al is totally personal--whatever works!
In the past I have incorporated that method, too.
@@williamwhittle216 And what was the overall Penguin guide organisational principle? Composer, I think? So all that orchestral, chamber etc stuff was a sub-division of composer? So composer/genre? That's exactly how I physically organise my physical digital files, so I think there's something in that.
I'm one of those weirdos (software engineer for IBM) that has 4500 CDs and 2500 LPs catalogued in an Excel database, and sometimes I still can't find an album! E.g. you reviewed Rorem, but I couldn't find my Naxos recording of the symphonies. The aalbums are arranged by album number as assinged by the company. The advantage of the system is that it solves the composer/anathology problem, and it provides a lot of other interesting information that I capture. Excel is not a particularly hard spreadsheet applicatioto use, yet is rich with features. The hardest part is setting up and entering all existing albums.
Your overflow shelves look a lot like mine, though I don't store one row behind another.
Someone said that Excel is not a database. Technically it's a spreadsheet application, but can be used llike a database to manage information that can be in multiple worksheets, or worksheets in multiple files.
Great tips David, thank you. I use the same method except for interprets that I filed alphabetically in a separate section. During my fandom (dementia) phase I used to buy Furtwägler compulsively, so he has his own shelves now. I spent frightening sleepless nights pondering how to file the Orfeo archive concerts cds. So I gave them away I got my slumber back.
I love this utilitarian rationale for categorization, which is basically how I categorize my record collection: I organize by genre, and then alpha by artist within a genre, and then alpha by album within an artist. Wherever it gets complicated- compilations, side projects, leaderless jazz combos, genre-hoppers- I just ask "where would I look for this album when I want to find it?" That's why, for instance, Brian Eno's rock albums are in the "rock" section, but the ambient albums are in the "experimental" section. I'm not a public library- it only has to work for me!
Thanks David great talk - useful advice - Ray
Storing compact discs while exploiting depth. I always thought CDs had to be displayed; I never considered placing either redundant or second-tier recordings behind the A-list recordings. Brilliant, and thanks!!
I group my CD’s by record label for the most part. Alia Vox in particular since their releases are nice to display together (other examples Linn, BIS, harmonia mundi, etc). I once tried to sort by composer, but that degraded into an unsorted mess. I have been able to buy a lot of mega and smaller box sets to collect most of my music. Box sets go wherever I find space. I must add that these box set releases are wonderful for younger people (myself included) to obtain a lot of music, often cheaper than by CD or digital download.
I also organized in a way that I knew where everything was. I would like to share the opening lines of the promotional video for Alberto Manguels's "The Library at Night" exhibit, where you're free to substitute listener for reader and records/CDs for books. "You enter a library like you enter a forest. There is a sense of order in the rows of books as in the rows of trees but you don't yet know what that order is. Someone has placed the books there with a certain method in mind but you don't know what that method might be. The private library is the autobiography of its reader...a mirror of that reader's mind; of his tastes, prejudices, experiences, and desires. The book of the same title is well worth reading, if you haven't done so already.
As it should be for anyone, my organizational system for my classical music is the one that works best and appeals most to me- at the macro level, it's organized by chronological eras as such- Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, 20th Century, and Contemporary. Within each era, it's alphabetically organized by composers' names, and then for each composer, it's roughly chronologically organized (I can't be bothered to know the exact chronological order of each composer's works!). Some other occasional groupings within that include: all of Bach's organ works roughly together, and multi-composer discs typically being grouped at the end of each era for the one that predominates on that disc. Other genres of mine are organized roughly alphabetically by names of composers/performers, and chronologically within each one, though 'world music' is organized by region, then by composers/performers, and then roughly chronologically within that.
When I pick out stuff to play at different times, it's by whim- a certain selection, or range of selections; and then certain things I just randomly see while going through my shelves for my original 'requests.'
I gotta say boxes are nice. Often a good deal and the records are together. The collection grows so fast Im glad they are in boxes :)
Hi David, Yes! I recognized immediately the Dorati Haydn opera series, Like you I file everything alphabetically except I have a separate section for opera singers recitals also filed separately and the same for boxed sets. Don't have the room here in NYC for double filing!Thanks again--will never have your huge collection---just about 6,000.
Oh David, I LOVE this video. You're so much fun and yes, very organized :)
When my collection was in the low hundreds I had it organised by composer, then slowly but surely, abetted by the moving of flats a couple of times it descended in to chaos. Now, in the low-thousands I couldn't tell you what's there.... unless you asked. I am constantly amazed that I can remember what I have and astounded that can I ever find it, and yet I almost always do on the first attempt! I have been slowly but slowly encoding the collection though in no way keeping up with purchases, especially after joining this channel!!
Love this video because of your common sense approach. Thanks for taking the time.
"And in next week's episode I will explain how I organise the massive vinyl collection that I keep in a warehouse in Seattle."
Oh God, David, you slay me, double CD shelves, I recently started doing that and yes I forget about the rear row.
You are so cute, I Iove you. Thank you for the tips.
The way I organize my CD/SACD collection is by composer's birth date. That way periods of music are kept together. The reason I do it that way is because I get into the habit were I like to listen to periods of music (baroque, classical, romantic, etc.) for long periods of time, so organizing them by composer birth year is perfect. Also, I've been doing it that way since I started collecting classical music in 1972 when I was 13. FYI - If I forget what year a composer was born, I just look it up, but usually I can guess pretty close and find what I need.
I too have always collected alphabetically within reason. About 20 years ago I created a simple Word file called "Music filed under something else"-also an alphabetical listing, but with a key to where I had actually put the physical CD. And every time I got a new one that didn't fit the way my shelves were organized, I would quickly add it to the list. Now the file has thousands of items, including hundreds that I doubt I would ever find again without it. Of course, it can be embarrassing: did I really need dozens of extra Bruckner symphonies in addition to the ones that were already proliferating under B on the shelf? On the other hand, paging through the list can be a very enjoyable way of not only reacquainting myself with music and performances I haven't listened to in years, but also calling up the memory of where and how I first discovered it. And because I still have a car with a CD player, it's also an easy way to spark new ideas about what to listen to on a road trip.
Like several others here, I organized my CD collection by the birthdate of the composer, which resulted in a very satisfying visual portrait of music history. For a particular composer, I organized the discs by genre: concertos, symphonies, orchestral, chamber, vocal, choral, and finally opera.
About 15 years ago, though, I switched from CDs to digital files -- a laborious process at first, but one that has resulted in quite a convenient way to access my music. I am meticulous about editing the metadata so that everything is easy to search and find.
My wife is glad the CDs are not filling up the room, but I do miss them. People could visit our home and not realize that I'm a music nut.
Two questions for you, if you don't mind. First, when you converted the CDs to a digital file, did you do so losslessly? Second, what program did you use to convert them? I ask because I've got about 6,300 CDs and while I put them in Apple iTunes years ago, they are lossy. I did some test runs converting a few to FLAC and they take a little while, meaning converting 6,300 CDs will be a long-term project.
thanks for this inspiring video... but of course now inquiring minds want to know: What's on Dave's Frequently listened/Favorite shelf? A new video topic, perhaps... merci
I enjoyed this and the practical tips. My collection's not nearly so large as yours, good Mr. Hurwitz, but I'm sure is much larger (approx. 4,000) than that of the average citizen. Repertoire receives priority for my acquisitions.
My system for organizing is similar to that presented here. CDs dedicated to a composer (the bulk of them) are alphabetized by composer and stratified by chamber, orchestral, solos, vocal, etc. and sub-alphabetized by performer as necessary. Strata are usually sub-stratified: e.g., orchestral by concerti, suites, symphonies, etc.; vocal by opera, oratorio, sacred, songs, etc.; solos (and concerti, etc.) by instrument family and instruments within family; etc.
CDs that highlight a performer interpreting music by multiple composers are stratified as previously discussed and alphabetized by performer in a different section. Etc.
Soundtracks are as likely to be sought by my wife who doesn't give a damn who wrote the music: alphabetized by title other than collections by composer (e.g., coincidentally, by Hermann), which are alphabetized with soundtracks but by composer.
Most of it is ripped/digitized to a designated external hard drive and organized to diverse playlists. Etc.
I am intrigued by these sorts of suggestions. How on Earth do you manage multi-composer CDs? (Say, 2 composers, Mozart's 40th with Beethoven's 5th?). You could certainly file that under 'compilation', but if you file it under Mozart, it's wrong for half the CD, and likewise if you file it under Beethoven. The trouble with CDs is that they are a delivery mechanism that delivers a multitude of content that doesn't always lend itself to nice categorization in the raw. Only if you regard the CD as different 'things' can you catalogue it correctly -and that obviously won't work when there's only one disk that has to be filed in two different places!
Usually by artist, as described above. Independent label Bridge, e.g., released a disc of American Tone Poems by diverse late-romantic composers recorded by The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. It's thus in my by-artist section with other orchestral discs and alphabetized as Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.
It's rare that I buy compilation hodgepodges that feature both different artists and different composers. Those tend to be historic recordings. For example, I have Nimbus' two The Prima Voce: Treasury of Opera collections (about a dozen hours of historic recordings). Spanning both numerous composers and performers, those are in my by-artist section at the very end of the vocal:opera strata. That kind of compilation is rare enough to my collection that such things don't get buried in other stuff.
Also, the categorization isn't a goal in itself. Having a way to find something that I want to hear or refer to is what's important. So long as I have and understand a system, that goal is attained.
@@eugenebraig413 So Royal Philharmonic is filed next to Rachmaninov? Fine.
Now Bliss plays Mozart's Clarinet concerto. B or M? And how do you remember whether you filed it under performance artist or composer?
@@eugenebraig413 I get that. I'm just interested in what the system is and how actually systemic it is.
A lot of these systems, it seems to me, and even judging by the original video content, come down to "what I remember" and "it works for me", which aren't really systemic in nature not terribly practical as recommendations for anyone else, generically.
I mean, fair do's. You do wnat works for you. I'm just not convinced it's s good recommendation for anyone else, unless I see rigorous systemisation that can be applied universally without relying upon individual quirks of brainpower or memory.
I separate my opera onto a shelf on a different wall. I've amassed a lot of opera even though I don't listen to it all that frequently but it's fun to display.
For individual CDs rather than boxes, I buy paper sleeves to hold the discs (with the cover booklet wrapped around each one), put the disks in small storage baskets on shelves, and throw away the plastic cases. You'd be surprised how much size and weight that saves.
a great time!!! I love you brother
This was wonderful. The brief survey of one of your letter 'H' sections was a blast. I hope you do some random digs into your collection in future episodes. TY.
Some nice ideas, Dave... I arrange my collection by year of death. Like that I have a chronological overview. It also keeps my historical awareness fresh, at least that's what I think it does. Then I order them: opera, vocal, symphonic, chamber, solo... Contemporary naturally comes at the end, I order them alphabetically until they die. From then on they become part of 'history'. Dedicated to artists goes alphabetically on a separate shelf... And that has worked for years. Simplicity is indeed best of all
You made me feel MUCH better!
I always wondered about the storing of single CDs which have more than one composer, especially if the timings are roughly equal. Or even if there is one long work and then a very short one by a different composer. Eventually I decided to have a shelf dedicated to such CDs, and when searching for a certain work and can't find it in the alphabetical list just go over to that dedicated shelf.
I am reaching a similar stage. I have mixed composer albums stored by headliner i.e. whoever is named first, but sometimes the accompanying compositions are what I'm after and then I have to search far and wide to find it unless I remember the coupling (I never do).
Because of the size and breadth of my multi-genre collection. I absolutely have to have a database for the collection, which I keep on USB drives, hard-burned archive CDs and even emailed to a safe location on some server at yahoo or gmail. In case the house burns down, of course. In which case, the safely-kept remotely stored documentation of the now destroyed collection becomes meaningless. lol. Other than to attempt to re-collect based on it.
Finally got it to play at 2100 EDT. Took a bit of doing, but well worth the wait. Thanks, Dave!
Thank you for your persistence! I wish I knew what the problem was.
Thanks for the tips. I'd be interested to see what you keep in your frequent-listening pile.
Excellent review of the issues involved. I have about 10,000 "recordings" (one of which might consist of the complete Shotakosvich symphonies and another might consist of a single concerto from a mixed set),
mostly CDs with some downloads and rips from LPs and cassettes. Because all of these have been ripped to a digital music system (Waxbox) the need for locating them physically is not so urgent. The main needs are for librettos, significant notes, and to locate the SACDs since they have not been ripped.
All my cds are organized by label. I could organize by composer but most of my music is in boxes with multiple composers per box. Definitely going to use double shelves when my CPO stuff comes in.
Great advice, listen and enjoy first, organize later.
Hi David. Very helpful video. I've just watched it for the second time because I've got a carpenter coming over next Monday (23/8/21) to build five large shelf sets for my 6,300+ CDs. I'd decided a long time ago that they'd have to be double depth, so I re-watched this video in an attempt to gauge the height between shelves. As a CD is about 12cm (4.7") in height, it looks like yours are 16cm - 17cm (6.3" - 6.7") high.
Just make them high enough to get your finger in to remove them.
I wish I had those double layer shelves. I have those multiple alphabets but that's because vocal (opera + oratorios etc), singer recital compilations, chamber music, orchestral; an entire Met broadcast collection by composer but I wish were chronological; an NBC Symphony broadcast section, not just Toscanini but Stokowski, Boult, Kleiber, Ansermet etc etc and that IS chronological. etc. Crazy. Things like Kismet go under Borodin (next to Prince Igor) because I can never remember who the adapters were!
"A voyage of discovery" sounds a lot like the way I would organize stuff.
Very therapeutic ! :D
Great video. in part I also have them in alphabetical order, but I have composers and anthologies of performers on separate shelves.
Perfect topic! I organize by composer, however the compilations with more than one composer trouble me as years go by and I can't recall where a piece is if I don't remember the composer I bought it for. So a database for compilations would be very useful. / Your advice to just 'go through' the stuff is great: I often come across something I'd forgotten I owned and hadn't heard (maybe ever)
I had a university colleague who ordered his stuff (books in this case) chronologically in order of the year of their death. Weird. Every time he looked at his shelves he was reminded of the transitory nature of life. In a different area he kept the writers who were alive, just WAITING to die and find their place in the grand scheme of things.
And you need a separate shelf for the possibly terminally ill or those recently admitted to hospice, and a very special spot for those in a coma.
Great to see the Haydn operas on your self. Me too!!! The best!!
Ha...I was just looking at the Dorati Box for possible purchase. Worth it?
@@jfddoc Yes. The one to buy is the issue that David has on the self. You may have to go to Amazon and or EBay to find them, usually used. But they are the best issue for the early 90's. They contain all the info on the opera and the complete libretto. Other issues made since then do not have that. Very little info and no librettos. Not very expensive as well.
@@felipeechavarria7229 Thanks!
@@jfddoc ofcouse. Enjoy.
I had been trying to ignore the Haydn operas, but after watching this video I looked up the Dorati recordings. When I saw the cast of singers and the whole set divided into 2 boxes for $30 each used, I couldn't pass them up. I can live without the librettos and skip past the recitatives.
Great common sense advice David. I’d be interested to know,having such a large collection, how often you buy stuff you already have..or do you always check before buying?
I usually check.
Mr Hurwitz every day I see your beautiful record collection and it sparks my jealousy, even though I’m very proud of mine. Maybe you should do a talk and ask your listeners to post pictures of their collection. Classical Record collecting is the most wonderful thing in my life. I also collect Neil Young records. It’s getting pretty out of hand
By the way what does somebody do if they are both abnormal and stupid?
It's a problem.
@@DavesClassicalGuide tell me aboiut it
My collection does not compare to Dave's in any way but as someone who started collecting due to my interest in music history, I generally organize by the composer's date of birth, so for example JS Bach, Handel, and D. Scarlatti are right next to each other. Since not all cd's have just one composer there are some decisions I have to make, but birth date is the general rule and I find it puts things in a very interesting context when I am looking through my discs. Of course most pre-renaissance music is organized stylistically and or by century and I keep a separate section for conductor's boxes, pianists, etc....but like I said, I don't have so many discs where I can completely loose track of things. My desk is organized exactly as Dave described....things most used are nearest in reach, even if that is behind my computer screen.
Great idea. I think would probably organize my collection by musical era as well.
Time for a Jerry Goldsmith or Bernard Herrmann video!
I would love some recommendations on CD purchasing sites… Neither Amazon nor Archivmusic are satisfactory… I would love some more options…
A lot of us use Presto Classical out of the UK. I used them for 10 years when I lived in Dubai and was constantly amazed at their high level of service (others have said the same inc. those on the BBC classical music web site). Once I asked them about a particular boxed set, which wasn’t listed on their web site. They confirmed they didn’t have it, but then they checked a number of other UK-based sites to see if they could get it for me.
@@jjquinn2004 Presto also keep your download purchases for future listening. A great service if you travel frequently. All you need is an iPhone and headset!
We in the EU should avoid buying from the UK nowadays; I did once, it was an awful hazzle with tax and toll.
Does anyone else ever bunch CDs together by record label, so you get large clumps with the spines matching, like book collections? I realised over time that I tend to collect about two dozen conductors, and since most of those tended to record for (or be rereleased by) one or two labels, filing alphabetically by conductor leads to large label groupings on the shelves. So, much of my Ansermet is Decca Eloquence, my Dorati is Mercury Living Presence, etc.
My additional quirk, besides grouping the collection by conductor, is to *not* organise those conductors alphabetically. Instead, I group them by genre or style/period. Since specific labels tend to support particular styles/periods, I end up with a huge area of shelves with French music and the green-and-white Erato label, a section of Russian music with masses of Melodiya and Olympia titles, and a section of more Germanic repertoire, with lots of yellow and red spines. Sounds crazy, but I can lay my hands on anything, and it looks cool meanwhile!
Sounds like your shelves present with a highly design-worthy appearance!
Within chronologically-oriented eras, I group work alphabetically by composers, and for each individual composer, chronologically for their works.
I’ve clumped my discs together by label. That’s all I’ve done. But like Sony for example, the Bernstein Century discs are together w the Prince Charles covers, the later Bernstein series together, the Essential Classics and then the miscellaneous… and that is just Sony!
I didn't realise just how large your overflow room is, though given your work I shouldn't be surprised.
I really like your shelving solution, this video is timely as I really need to address my storage and organisation.
I have to ask, are those shelves bowing or is it distortion from the camera?
They're bowing a bit, but I don't mind. It's a cautionary reminder of the dangers of excess.
Dave, have you ever done (or will do) a video on the advantages, sonically in particular, of CD over vinyl?
No, and I don't think it makes sense to now. It could be that I'm just old, but the return of vinyl is one of the most demented things I've seen in these past few years.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I couldn't agree more with your "demented" return of vinyl comment. The rejuvenation of that format is clearly a step backwards. But I don't think it's a sign of age to think so, as many of today's vinyl-philes are as old as you or me, and even older. Still, one day I hope you will do something laying out why you favor CDs above the LP, and other media.
Nice shelves too. Did you make them yourself or is there a good standard shelf you get?
They were custom built.
CD v Digital. I’m a cd man - because I need the liner notes (that old 🌰 again), I need to know where and when it was recorded and who the record producer was. I listen out for the Rudolfinum, Kingsway Hall or some obscure opera house, as well as for Culshaw and Sip. And the physical medium gives me that feeling which Dave often refers to as “it’s nice to have!”. But that’s just me.
PDFs and a tablet. I'm a digital man because I like reading the liner notes and so on, too. I don't need tiny printed booklets to do it though! Scan and zoom for me :)
My cd collection is a total mess, I have classical mixed with jazz, and rock and metal, but I can still find what I need.
Ghoulish question maybe. Where does your collection go once you've passed ?
I don't care. I'll be dead.
This is a question: with editions (i.e. The Complete Mozart Edition, The Beethoven Edition etc.) in box sets, do you categorise them alphabetically or by volume number? Like for me, I have the Marriner/Mozart opera series (Le nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan tutte, Die Zauberflöte) on Philips, and I categorise them by date they were written. And another question, do you have The Complete Mozart Edition? I understand that they're out of print, but they're simply fantastic items to have in your collection.
Sincerely: AllComposersbyNumbers
Answer to your first question: I really don't care either way. Both make sense. Mozart operas are Mozart operas, they don't need to be organized internally as far as I'm concerned. It takes two seconds to locate any of them. Yes, I have a Mozart Edition somewhere.
@@DavesClassicalGuide 1. Yes, I guess it was a pretty pointless question to be honest. They hardly take any time to locate and (usually) they're categorised in order they were written (i.e. volumes).
2. I'm glad of it. Editions of composer's complete works are truly remarkable. I believe that there are three full Mozart editions (that I know of) by Philips Classics (1991), Brilliant Classics (2006) and Decca/Deutsche Grammophon (2016). The latter is Mozart 225, a fantastic 200 CD box set containing his complete works, including newly discovered fragments and unfinished works. Anyway, I'm waffling on, as normal. Thanks again Dave for the wonderful video and reply!
All the best: AllComposersbyNumbers
My problem is that having ripped everything to digital files I struggle to decide what to do with the CDs. Sell them all on ebay? Or just keep a handful of favourites and sell the rest? Of course you could argue that the CDs are a backup for the digital files in case they get corrupted but I could equally well just get another disc drive and back up to that. I'm torn between wanting to declutter (Marie Kondo style) and wanting to have an impressive looking CD collection displayed on my shelves. (Maybe I could just keep the nicest looking ones or the ones on prestige labels?) First world problem, please send help.
So long as you remember to delete the CD rips when you dispose of the CDs, of course! Yeah, copyright laws are insane, but this is the world we live in. Those digital rips are allowed (in some jurisdictions) as backups to the shiny, physical disk you purchased. They aren't meant to be something you retain as you flog off the shiny disk to someone else.
@@dizwell So I should just delete anything I don't currently have a hard copy of? It looks like you've found a solution (albeit a crazy one) to my dilemma (also crazy). Thanks 😄
@@DavidNursal2012 I really can't imagine that some attorney for some entertainment conglomerate would be going after you someday because you have digital rips and had sold your old cds on ebay or amazon or discogs- at least I've never heard of that being prosecuted- maybe if you were selling huge volumes of cds that could happen, but don't see that at the level of an individual collection- at least in North America, if that's where you reside (or in a country with a vaguely similar legal system). If you were sharing your digital files on torrent/pirated copy sites, possibly then, but even then unlikely I would think, unless you own/run the site in question.
@@lotusholder I know, I know. The police obviously have better things to do than raid my .Wav music files.
Thanks David. Quick question: do you ever throw anything away?
Often.
Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies. As interesting as this discourse was, it signally failed to address the biggest quandary of them all: how to house one's BBBRRRUUUCCCKKKNNNEEERRR collection, not least, the Accounts of the Zero, the Double Zero and all those wildcat editions from Kna! What is a man to do? Does one ring-fence them? What of a plastic equivalent of Hadrian's Wall? What is to stop Karajan from stomping on his rivals? I urge you at some stage to revisit this topic with BBBRRRUUUCCCKKKNNNEEERRR in mind! B
I’ve been agonizing over the organization of my CDs. Some out of place, how to file mixed performances. What goes in another room. What about SACDs and audio DVD? I fret over not being sure I have something or have I ordered that before? But our host is correct, once I start listening I really don’t give a damn. (much)
Just experiment and do whatever works best for you over time- be creative, and see your organizal system evolve. If your collection is massive, though, you probably don't want to keep re-structuring your overall collection, in which case, read over others' suggestions and then from amony the options, go with your gut. In my case, BTW, my CDs, SACDs, and DVD-As are all grouped together- I don't make distinctions within those formats- because the cases are generally similar-sized, and play on my universal players; and my lps are kept separately for the same reasons- different size, storage needs, and playback source..
And my ancient cassettes?- they lie somewhere gathering dust, almost never heard.
I wonder how long it will be before new releases in classical are download only? I prefer the physical format myself and my downloads are burnt onto a blank disc in the PC hard drive and back up copies kept.. Do you buy all of your cd's David or do you get given some of them for review? Also, there is the time factor, I am 66 and think to myself will I have time left to hear them all ! (my collection is considerable but nothing like yours) Something else I have noticed is that more new releases are being made available on YT even before they have been reviewed in the magazines, and yes, they are downloadable ! Wasn't it Sophie Mutter who tried legal action against YT because her recordings were open to copying? Then we have file sharing which must have badly dented the recording industry over the last 20 years. A computer geek showed me how it's done with Hollywood films and I was shocked when he showed me classical libraries available, (i.e the complete legacy of Karajan on EMI, Decca, DG.) no wonder some musicians are pleading poverty these days! Maybe best you delete the last few lines Dave before people start asking questions like where and how..
I buy a lot of them, and some I receive as promos. It used to be the other way around, but as labels move increasingly towards downloads they won't spend the money mailing out physical product, even if they bother to make it in the first place. Some labels offer special "reviewer rates" but I've never taken advantage--I don't trust them to send the stuff on time for review, and I won't let others dictate my schedule. In general, I need to buy reissues and boxed sets like everyone else (and that's what most are interested in).
Hi Geoff. Just noticed your comments on CD burning during my 2nd run-through of this video. I also prefer the physical format as I've got a large collection of CDs. However, for various reasons, I'm now resorting to downloads. I'd really hoped to save space by not burning them on to CDs, but it seems they're not easy to manage if they're not on CD and filed away with the rest of the physical media. Question: did you try to manage them as digital files before you gave up and burned them on to a CD?
BTW, I'm also 66 and wondering where the time will come from to listen to everything I have! For my boxed sets, I've taken to putting lists of contents into the boxes and ticking off those works / discs that I have listened to.
Take care.
@@jjquinn2004 Hi John, Yes I tried to manage them as digital files but it became a mess so I burn them to cd as and when I want to listen to them. Much prefer the physical format. I have a lot of downloads stored on external hard drives that I haven't managed to get around to burning and playing yet ! When copied, I store the disc in plastic wallet and label them, then store them in a large cd rack in composer order. Although I'm retired, time is what we don't have enough of when it comes to all the great music that enriches our lives. At our age, it's a case of '' Times winged chariot drawing near ''
Best regards, happy listening !
nice video, which audio equipment have you in use David?
I don't discuss audio.
Dave. it won't play. Was looking forward to watching, too.
No else is having an issue.
Relying solely on memory means relying on warhorses almost exclusively because we know we can always find them. Einem's 'Capriccio' might be a great piece of music, but its chance of being discovered in your collection is really low, especially if the disc on which it's found is filed in your memory as a Hindemith disc, in the back shelf of the overflow room, apart from the Brooklyn collection, apart from the Go-To Shelf. Then again, we don't owe anything to this music, so if it gets lost in the shuffle, then so be it. Right?
Wrong. Your description of what any person may or may not remember couldn't be more incorrect. Indeed, if there is only a single recording of Einem's Capriccio I am MORE likely to remember where it is, whether or not it's filed under the name of the composer, simply because of its uniqueness--and whether we "owe anything" to it or not, whatever that bit of silliness means.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'm honored that you responded. Love many of your videos.
@@Otorres1 Thank you.
You're right: stealing music from other composers goes straight in to the 9th circle of Hell
I myself have gone to the double row system - I then find things behind which I forgotten about!
Good to know someone else doesn't rate Horner's flim ouvre - derivative hack work for the most part (the title.track for the film Aliens is essentially Khatachurian's Gayane:s Adagio). Please do something on Bernard Hermann (love his music for Jane Eyre), Goldenthal perhaps (his soundtrack for Julie Taymor's Titus is amazing), Waxman and Corigliano (Altered States). Cheers.
Can you recommend a storage rack for CDs?
No. I used glass block and boards; otherwise custom built shelves.
Don't understand it . Everything else plays and I've rebooted, too. I know it's not your problem, just wanted to let you know. Maybe it will work later or tomorrow.
I know this is a dark matter, but what plans have you made for your collection when the sad day comes?
I don't care. I'll be dead.