you probably dont care but if you guys are stoned like me during the covid times you can stream all the latest movies and series on Instaflixxer. I've been binge watching with my brother for the last few months :)
I have no idea who wrote it, but I love this quote "In order for you to insult me, I would first have to value your opinion." People in social media are too occupied with being offended or insulted by strangers.
"It is taboo in our society to criticize a persons religious faith... these taboos are offensive, deeply unreasonable, but worse than that, they are getting people killed. This is really my concern. My concern is that our religions, the diversity of our religious doctrines, is going to get us killed. I'm worried that our religious discourse- our religious beliefs are ultimately incompatible with civilization.” ― Sam Harris
And it really shows how hypocritical religious people can be when they act like it's not ok for anyone to do anything that offends them, but it's perfectly ok for them to go around offending everybody else by sending threats and telling them they deserve eternal torture because they don't share the same beliefs.
About being okay with offending the religious, but not the LGBT community, that's because one group is not only offending almost everyone else, but is also interfering in people's personal lives, education, science, medicine, government, etc., and the other group is not.
The whole point of the 'freedom of speech' laws is to ensure you aren't killed because you have a contrary opinion. Honestly, 'Freedom of Speech' means hearing things that you really don't like or want to hear.
It also mens that you must be able to defend your words. Saying "Gawd sez so" is no defense for anything. If you claim a god, then prove that godbeast.
I am offended by being told by someone who believes that a virgin gave birth to the son of God that I am a sinner who is worthy of eternal punishment in Hell!!
Great show. I especially liked the section with Dan Arel from 39:00 and at 47:00 where Seth says to go after the ideas rather than make insulting comments about the persons character. See also Premier Christian radio show,"Unbelievable?" with host Justin Brierley interviewing John W. Loftus and David Marshall about Marshall's book "How Jesus passes the outsider test of faith" Like this TTA show they demonstrate how to debate religious thoughts in a calm & civil manner. It is amazing how Justin is prepared to voice the atheist point of view to show understanding of what John Loftus was saying even though he probably strongly disagrees with it and then ask David Marshall what his response is.
I listened to this episode on Stitcher. As always, it was great. Keep up the good work, I always learn something from your show and the people who write you/call in.
I have moments where I feel offended. Moments where people attack a certain physical property I have, which I cant do much about. Most people understand with age that this is something you should not attack. There is nothing to reflect upon, nothing to do about, you are stuck with what you got. This isnt the case for the ideas that I have. People can try to offend any idea I got. If Im in the right, I got plenty to say in return. I can defend my position on its own merits and if not, that means they have just shown me that I need to delve deeper into my own held believes Its for that reason I hardly ever feel offended. I enjoy the confrontation because it gives a chance to challange our ideas and grow as people. Seeing religion is an idea that I find highly damaging to society, I seek out that confrontation as well. If they are right, I will find their arguments hold water. If not, they might see the problems for themselves. To allow one stupid idea to slip that scrutiny is to allow many stupid ideas to slip scrutiny. Stupid ideas hurt others, including the ones holding them, so I feel obligated to offend. Stopping at being offensive is in my opinion the problem. It should be an initial spark that starts off discussion. After all, they seemingly want to defend their position, why not let them? Its that reason why I believe we should keep on being offensive. It *is* a discussion starter, an eye opener and a chance to learn from your fellow man. I'd be offended if we did not do just that
If the religious can "hate the sin, not the sinner" by shouting hateful and bigoted remarks aimed AT "sexual deviants", then the religious has no right to feel that atheists making satirical remarks ABOUT the religion or aimed at specific parts of the religion to be an indirect attack on them personally!!
The second I started this podcast, I instantly realized that I read that Stephen quote a couple days ago and I am SO glad that you mentioned it. It's an amazing quote.
You find me offensive? I find you offensive for finding me offensive... A lil Eminem there :) The way I handle ppl claiming they're being "offended" is by using reverse psychology. They'll usually say the usual of "you can't say that because that's my belief. That's what I hold dear to my heart". I say ok and try not to be an ass and ridicule them. But once I give them the chance to speak and say what's on their mind and say anything bad about science or atheism, I quickly stop them and yell out, "YOU CANT SAY THAT!!! I FIND THAT OFFENSIVE!!!" When they give me that 'shocked' look and ask how's it offensive, I say, "i hold science and atheism close to MY heart and it's something I've accepted and believe in. so if you say anything negative about science or atheism, you're offending me" Once they start giving me crap for calling them out on it I simply say, "so what you're saying is I can't offend you, but you can offend me??? I don't think so. Either we both have the right to criticize each others positions on what we hold dear or we don't. And if we don't, you can't say anything bad or criticize science and atheism anymore. And if you do, I'm calling you out for being a hypocrite" It takes them a bit to get it but once they do they usually walk away.
I used to have a shirt that said "in the age of information ignorance is a choice" and it had the atheist symbol on it. I had a religious person tell me that the symbol on the shirt was offensive to them because it represents hatred, violence, racism, etc., so I shouldn't be wearing the shirt. I pointed to the cross they were wearing and said that it offended me that they were wearing that. When they asked how a symbol that represents love and kindness could offend me I explained that the symbol on my shirt only represents the fact that I don't accept religious claims and nothing more, while the cross represents a belief that I deserve eternal torture for the sole reason of me not believing the claims of christianity. So I looked at the the few people that were watching and asked, what sounds more offensive, I don't agree with you, or because you don't agree with me you deserve eternal torture? I walked away and heard a couple people trying to stifle laughs while the religious person stood there with nothing to say.
Nebojsa J i have a shirt that says "in the age of information ignorance is a choice" and it has an atheist symbol below the quote. I had a person get offended by the symbol because they believe it represents hatred, racism, immorality, etc. When i couldnt get them to leave me alone i told them that the cross they were wearing offended me because it represents the belief that im going to be tortured for all eternity because i dont agree with their beliefs. That got them to shut up.
I'm completely fascinated by offense-taking. What does it mean to be offended? I can't imagine anyone being able to offend me by questioning my religious beliefs. If you're confidence in your positions, you're immune from people's questions and critiques. BUT- if you believe in things without confidence, you're ripe for the picking.
Hi Seth, I was wondering if you had any concrete schedule for doing your podcasts? I'd like to mark them on my calendar so I don't miss one. This is also the first one I've listened to by you and I've really enjoyed it. You have such a great voice. I'm sure you hear that a lot. Thanks for being a great guy.
All you have to do when you come to Australia, is speak the truth about what you country believes. This will make us laugh! Most people believe in some sort of vague definition of a god, but no one really gives a toss if you do or don't believe. We would rather go to the footy on Saturday, get drunk Saturday night, and sleep till midday on Sunday, than get up for church! Just saying.
The guy in the second email loved to bash atheists because of some way they handle religion. I hate these types of people. Sure just insulting isn't effective, but we are human. ALL of us. We don't work on a strict script. We ALL say "oh that's just Bullshit". And there is nothing wrong with doing that in a religious context. and telling someone "u are wrong" isn't "arrogance". It is simply pointing out errors. And he was basically trying to blame people who criticize religion by saying "well the consequences of people being offended is great, so lets tone it down". NO. This is exactly the wrong mentality. Violence is NEVER okay in response to mere words. Just because people do it doesn't mean we should cater to them. Ugh..for these reasons and more, this guy pisses me off
My best friend, who I've literally known all my life (we're both in our early 50's right now), is a fundamentalist, and I (for those who haven't seen any of my posts), self-identify as an anti-theist. I think that he believes that religious people are "more moral" than atheists, but he suffers from cognitive dissidence from time to time, because he has also proclaimed that I am a MUCH better friend to him than he is to me. Over the last several years, I have gone out of my way to help him, even when it entailed practically forcing my help on him (for which his wife is eternally grateful). They have adopted 3 young (between 4 and 11) children, who they are teaching to be fundies as well, of course, but when we are out and about and they ask a question in the realm of religion, I'm not bashful at all to tell them that I don't believe in any gods and am, if anything, a Zen (philosophical) Buddhist, which means I'm still not "religious". I think this makes my friend uncomfortable, but he has yet to ask me not to say anything. We've gotten into some very superficial debates about religion, but he doesn't go very far, I think because he knows he can't convert me and, to be honest, I think he is afraid that I might be able to de-convert him.
As a *former* Reiki healer, I wasn't taught about the healing properties of stones. What I was taught was that we don't cure people. It's basic Ethics that my teacher offered at level 1. We are told not to make medical claims unless we are licenced medical professionals. Reiki and other "energy healing" are used in addition to standard medicine, not in place of it. We are also told that the founder of Reiki healing was a Zen Buddhist, but it's done so that anyone of any belief or none can learn and practice. We are guided by Principles (Just for today, Let go of anger, let go of worry, be true to yourself, be grateful, be kind to yourself and others) rather than woo or dogma, but that doesn't stop individuals from injecting their own or acting like assholes. I had a moment of offense in 2017 when a representative of a real "Woo" modality posted a link from a new age-y Dr. Brian Weiss saying that, "disease isn't caused by genetics but by the thoughts and feelings." It hit a nerve with me coming from a family that is impacted by Huntington's Disease, a neuro-degenerative disease, shown to be caused by a genetic mutation. And in my own life, being impacted by chronic conditions that happened at birth, before I had any awareness of or control over my own thoughts or feelings. It hurt me deeply that someone with a clear financial interest was trying to undermine what I knew to be true and resort to victim blaming. When I say I am a former pitcher of woo, that incident was the beginning of the end. I think I posted something on Facebook, referring vaguely to "a load of waffle." My teacher told me I was taking it too personally, but it displayed a clear lack of any kind of compassion or empathy, and it felt very personal to me.
About being offended: Absolutely! In trying to say things that are true i.e. having 'real' conversations sometimes real people are bound to be challenged by being on either end of the exchange. If I am offended I'll say so and hope to defend why the other person's statement was egregious. If someone says I am offending them, then they have to explain why, with evidence. Otherwise, two things can happen. One, one group will think they can say the most offensive thing possible and not have anyone call them out on it. Two, we can all self censor our discourse so as not to 'offend' anyone. Heck, be responsible for what you say or when you yell, "Foul!" That works for me.
Talking about bad ideas that people might get offended about. When i worked at six flags over texas i had a lady once who refused to go through the metal detector because she believed they were powered by witchcraft, and of course we couldnt use the wand either because she thought they were magic wands. She got pissed off when we wouldnt let her into the park because we were not allowed to do pat downs and she couldnt come in without at least being wanded.
I really feel grateful that, as an atheist, I live in a country where, for most people your religion or lack of it is totally irrelevant. As well as fellow Atheists, My wife and I have many friends who are Christian, Jewish, Muslim and some who we know are religious, but of whom we have no idea which faith they belong to. The reason is that it just doesn't matter. People are people and if you must judge them, do it on the quality of their character, not on what god the follow. I wish America could achieve this level of maturity. It reminds me of a comment by George Carlin: *_”When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.”_*
lol I like the thumbnail of this... I should paint my enter key red and write "offend" on it, it seems I can't post anything without offending somebody!
Don't worry. Seth. Australia will love you. It's only a pity that you are not going to Perth, you love it. I'm back in the UK now, but that's where I used to live. Because it's right over the other side of the country, it does tend do get forgotten. Actually, we used to think of it as Australia's Best kept Secret.
Seth. Good show. 'Offense' is just so hard to quantify since one can be offended about pretty much anything. Also, I'm wondering if you take suggestions for possible future shows. Have you heard of Dr. David Eller? He wrote 'Natural Atheism', probably one of the most erudite books on the rather broad topic of atheism. He dissects and advances so many interesting ideas philosophically that I haven't really heard elsewhere. His follow-up 'Atheism Advanced' is even more powerful. I think he would be a fantastic guest and someone that I think is not given an adequate voice within the 'atheist movement' but has some of the best insights regarding it's overall trajectory. Someone you may consider. Keep up the most excellent work, brother.
When you spoke of feeling stupid, I totally am on the same page with you on that. Man everything I do is a bit slower. I go shopping today and I'm trying to pay for the goods. Every instruction on the cashier machine was realized so bloody slowly I was looking around to see if anyone is watching. It was embarrassing. And it's nothing I did that was outside the usual. So no Seth, it's not just you today, hahaha.
I like the way that emailer acts like it's the atheists that are the arrogant, offensive and rude ones out there. Another tiresome religious apologist.
I cannot say that I am daily offended by the usages and practices of religion, but the fact is that they continue and frequently with no thought regarding my offense. Such religious elements can include everything from a prayer before a public meeting to public monies funding private schools through state voucher programs, particularly where these schools may teach creationism. Seth, you yourself said in another video that if THEY do it, it's called, "free speech," but if I call them on it, it's called, "persecution." I'm not sorry to say I'm not having any of that. It's one standard for EVERYBODY, and if those who feel offended cannot be bothered to grow a sufficiently thick skin to weather such slings and arrows, they will get no sympathy from me. I submit that most if not all religious practices are deleterious because they are based in untruth, their core beliefs are unvalidated by any form of science and they are too often used to bilk followers and foster an "us-vs-them" mindset which is even more non-constructive. If believers take offense at such a statement, they can do multiple things: • They can attempt to defend their beliefs, though such attempts lately are notably without success. • They can attempt to alter the system they subscribe to, also not likely to work well. OR • They can look at those beliefs honestly and critically, and perhaps recognize as atheists have that they are poorly founded, that their holy books are rife with contradiction, violence, misogyny and homophobia and ill-conceived "morality," and having realized what is going on, *ABANDON THEM*.
One of my favorite memes that ive seen, that probably offends some people, is one that has a picture of thor and it says "my god has a hammer, your god was nailed to a cross, any questions?"
Good topic, Personally I disagree with the whole idea with being offended, its a pet peeve of mine. It's gotten so out of hand over the last decade. Being offended is nothing more than admitting you take something personally, it doesn't help you make a point or serve any purpose in an argument other than saying how something makes you feel, and how something makes you feel doesn't really help you make a point. What really annoys me is when people use it *instead* of an argument, as if saying that alone somehow means something. If you wanna make an argument and say you're offended fine, just make sure your argument backs up how you feel, to me its almost but not quite as bad as using the faith position.
What does one do when one is offended by the wilful ignorance and the boundless arrogance of the Faithful? It also seems to be rather unclear to some,that offence is TAKEN not given... So if the weak-willed, the spineless and the intellectually challenged are taken offence...why do we care again?? Cuddles ! Paddy
27:00 - I think the characterization of "Jesus Fucking Christ" is great - in a certain context. In a discussion about theism, it's useless. But I think it's a wonderful recontextualization that forces us not to think so much about religion but language. I'm reminded of a little mental game I play when I listen to the radio - I imagine homophones (words that sound alike) being substituted in for one another. Sometimes the effect is pretty un-subtle: "More on President Bush in a moment" becomes "Moron President Bush in a moment", and other times it's really interesting "dissidents attacked the capital" goes from a statement about civil unrest to an existential statement of dissatisfaction: "dissidence attacked the capital". "You need to stop right now" moves from an imperative to cease to a sudden command to whip out a pen or to start typing: "You need to stop. Write now!" In that context, turning "fucking" from an adjective to a verb has a dramatic, unsubtle effect. But, no, I wouldn't want it on a t-shirt or in a debate - serious or otherwise - aimed at convincing anyone out of their theist presuppositions.
I can't remember who said this but I agree fully with it, "I may be offended by what you say but I will fight to the death for you to be able to say it."
Trust me, don't worry about being embarrassed or anything in Australia, you would not BELIEVE how many things have happened before here, much worse then embarrassment, and we consider it normal. -From a true Aussie. :)
12:30 - Newsboys - that reminds me. There was this great late 80s to mid 90s industrial rock band called Dessau which never had a lot of output or exposure, but what little there was (three albums with some song overlap) was quite a solid combination of industrial and post punk. It was effectively one guy by the name of John Elliot. On a random "where are they now" web search, I found that Elliot had turned toward Christian music, including working with Newsboys and forming Passafist. What a waste.
26:50 regarding the point of offensive stuff not being effective, I think a lot of people are just soooo fed up with having to live in a world overrun with irrational people, so we just make fun of them for entertainment only. I think of that whenever I watch "Sye Ten Atheist", he's not going to convince anybody Picture someone that is just tired of making good arguments, and watching people be immune to logic, so they give up and just laugh.
6:50 Done! as a ordained Tech prist/part time Diiscordinist pope/Patron saint of stain removal (ordained by the universal life church) I here by give my approval of all non-religious marriages. (I'm also part-part time pastafarian every now and then so i can give that blessing too while i am at it... I am a fully ordained Minister...)
***** - I've been reading up on "anti-prescription therapy," which is supposed to reverse hyperopia/myopia. I haven't figured out if it's based on science or if it's a gimmick based on some random person's theory. The theory behind it is that (if you're near-sighted - prescriptions with negative numbers), you're supposed to do close-up things with lenses for far-sighted people (reading glasses - plus-numbered therapy). The opposite method is to be used by people with hyperopia. Another tenet of this theory is to wear lenses that don't correct your vision to 20/20 (so if you need lenses that are -5.00, wear lenses that are, say, -4.50), which apparently the eyes will eventually adjust to (it's supposed to be "exercise" and eventually the focus will "clear."). This allegedly makes your eyes focus in a different way and works the muscles in your eyes - and "with dedication and time," it will gradually bring your vision back to zero (20/20 vision). I'm still not convinced, even though a lot of people claim it worked for them. I'm going to ask my optometrist about this next time I see him to see what they have to say about it. And yeah, I got "progressives" for the first time this year at the age of almost-42. Not sure how I feel about it. LOL!
What do I find offensive? False accusations. When a theist says "You do believe in God. You're just suppressing him in your unrighteousness." That offends me. It is one reason why I despise Sye Ten Bruggencate, because _that's all he ever does!_
In response to the topic, being offenDED is a choice just as much as intentionally offenDING someone. There are people who would be offended if the wind blew from the wrong direction.
Someone being called Islamophobic because they are criticizing religious extremism is offensive and more to the point counterproductive. The term is used deliberately in order to shut down much-needed conversation and reform.
Nothing is offensive. It's another word for "I don't like". I don't give a shit what you don't like. When what you don't like bleeds into the rest of our lives then what you don't like becomes mute.
When someone says "I find that offensive" I reply along the lines of the comedian Steve Hughes "Well then be offended, what's wrong with being offended?" That said, it's true that too many people use "Freedom of Speech" as an excuse to be a twat, with no wit or underlying point to the jokes, for those people I suggest taking notes from another comedian, Frankie Boyle, unapolagetically vicious but actually making points with it.
What happened in Paris was offensive. The repercussions after the attack were also offensive. All the victim blaming from people I wouldn't expect to say such things. I have a feeling that this sympathy for the killers from the Christian fundamentalists could lead to a push for anti - blasphemy laws to be enacted here in the US. It's so easy for them to feign offense at every criticism of their intolerance. There are many lawmakers here that sympathize with their agenda and wouldn't hesitate to attempt to undo the strives we've made in increasing the scope of our 1st amendment rights. The leaning of our legislature and Supreme Court makes this a doubly dangerous thought. Let's hope that reason prevails if any attempt to pass such laws happens.
It doesn't make good sense to live in fear of death, the inevitable, but when fear-instinct is combined with the idea of complete annihilation of Self-Ego, and "I" won't be here to think ironic amusing thoughts about my death after I'm dead ... Well that's kinda a bummer. But that's how it is. Death send not so hard to "accept" in the abstract until one contemplates death deeply.
All of the stuff in that email from Arthur cautioning atheists about what to do in debates, should also be stated in an open letter to Creationists as well. I have noticed that Creationists will reduce themselves to doing such things when it has been shown that their arguments simply don't hold water. I see this more often on the Creationist side of the debate than I do on the atheist side.
"Progressives" are called varifocal in UK. I've been told laser surgery does not work on age related eyesight degeneration by laser surgery companies trying to sell it to me.
How about we tell the people engaging in violence to not engage in violence. If someone engages in violence because I offended their religion, they are in the wrong. Violence is NEVER acceptable when someone simply says words you don't like.
The part where you disagree that offending the religious is not the same as offending homosexuals or people of color i have to disagree with your approach here. People adhere to certain identities, mostly seen as positive by them whatever they selfidentify as does not matter. It will become a part of their persona. As soon as you attack/criticize or show negative traits to that identity, they all get offended in the same manner. You attack a part of that person while attacking religion, sexuality or race and if they see that part as positive, they will go through hell to defend it. Look at (especially male) feminists. It applies to them too. To a degree it applies to atheists too, as long as you see it as a positive part of yourself. If someone talks crap about atheism in general, they are indirectly targetting your identity.
Is there a difference between offense and disgust? Say, where some people's offense transmutes into my disgust. Those who typically take the greatest offense seem to be the ones demanding the most leeway with respect to their peculiarities; the ones who also tend to give the least when encountering something new and or different.
What makes something "offensive" has nothing whatsoever to do with its content. It has everything to do with who said or did it, and what powerful-or not so powerful-groups identify with that person.
Nope. Offense has nothing whatsoever to do with the sayer or doer. It has everything to do with the person claiming to be offended. It's a way of announcing to the world that you are still a child, and give control of your own emotions to everybody but yourself.
The filmmaker Theo van Gogh shouted, “We can still talk about it! To the peaceful Muslim who was attempting to cut Theo's head off. The poor misunderstood Moslem then used his bloody knife to pin a note to Theo's chest saying: “AYAAN HIRSI ALI, YOU WILL SMASH YOURSELF ON ISLAM! That is the same Ayaan Hirsi Ali who Social Jusice Warriors and Atheist + 'ers have been stabbing in the back along with Harris, Dawkens, and all Anitheist. So can we really still talk about it with such as these?
Myeeehhh.... I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of the manner in which I die. Once I'm dead, it doesn't matter, but getting to that point has the potential to really suck. I'm just not sure what scares me more... Dementia, or burning alive?
There's no way you can challenge someone's core beliefs without them being threatened, "I'm offended" = "I feel threatened". Well you people of faith, bear this in mind, I find what you do offensive, I feel threatened by it, so if you don't want to be offended, may be you should stop offending.
Everyone has the right to feel offended, no question. However, I don't think you should use that as an argument. It's freedom of speech, someone is going to find offense about something. My stance on it, if something offends you, that's your problem, deal with it.
Arthur I disagree. Evidence largely has no effect on believers. At least not immediately and almost never for the the person you are presenting it. Often arguments are made for the benefit of others. There is also something to be said about speaking in retalation. I have little desire to engage honestly with someone who has shown no desire to do the same. Also offensive speech can be cathartic and for firing up one's base and trying to motivate people.
I have seen that Jesus Fing Christ meme and have shown it to many of my religious friends and all of them laugh. I do not feel that it was created to be offensive, I believe it was created to put the common saying into perspective.
This term."offended" really is a subjective way of saying "I don't like what u say" so what?. Atheists have no more of an obligation to.be silent than ANY other idea or ideas. We criticize, ridicule, mock, challenge ALL ideas and beliefs openly. Yet with religion some people think "ohh we have to be super careful not to.offend" such crap. They use this as a mechanism for playing victim. Doesn't work
Everyone has a right to be offended, that much I will defend. What they do not have is the right to be offended without reason, that is, they do not have the right to prop up only that they're offended as if it is some point in their favor. I'm sorry, but I don't give a fuck if you're just blindly offended. If you would like figure out and tell me why you're offended, then maybe we can talk. That doesn't necessarily garauntee I'll listen, especially if you're reason for offense is laugable, but we could at least get to the point of doing something productive like discussing it.
I personally prefer to attack ideas rather than people. I'll admit that I can't help the odd ad hominem but it's not option one and usually not option two. I get a little hair triggered when some smug bloke or another deliberately strawmans me. But that is because they are not debating honestly.
Don't buy a telescope without going to a local club first and talking and going out to observe with them. The asteroid would have just been another dot of light. You would have to watch the sky and over a few minutes looking for 1 of them moving a bit. Most keen observers would look and when they find it, they immediately will back away from the scope and invite others to come over and look at it. They enjoy the hunt as much as the looking :)
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"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire
you probably dont care but if you guys are stoned like me during the covid times you can stream all the latest movies and series on Instaflixxer. I've been binge watching with my brother for the last few months :)
@Torin Landyn Yea, I've been using instaflixxer for months myself :D
I have no idea who wrote it, but I love this quote "In order for you to insult me, I would first have to value your opinion." People in social media are too occupied with being offended or insulted by strangers.
"It is taboo in our society to criticize a persons religious faith... these taboos are offensive, deeply unreasonable, but worse than that, they are getting people killed. This is really my concern. My concern is that our religions, the diversity of our religious doctrines, is going to get us killed. I'm worried that our religious discourse- our religious beliefs are ultimately incompatible with civilization.”
― Sam Harris
Absolutely goddamned right. I'm going to plagiarise that paragraph in a totally shameless manner.
I'm plagiarising this also. Great quote!
If you get offended when I ridicule your beliefs, you should consider the possibility that you hold ridiculous beliefs.
Where religion is concerned, offense is used to shut down conversation (i.e. critique) rather than start or continue one.
And it really shows how hypocritical religious people can be when they act like it's not ok for anyone to do anything that offends them, but it's perfectly ok for them to go around offending everybody else by sending threats and telling them they deserve eternal torture because they don't share the same beliefs.
@@Sciguy95 Hypocrisy is a pillar of religious superstition.
About being okay with offending the religious, but not the LGBT community, that's because one group is not only offending almost everyone else, but is also interfering in people's personal lives, education, science, medicine, government, etc., and the other group is not.
Ironically, the religious don't seem to care whether they offend nonbelievers, feeling justified in doing so in defense of their faith.
Time to offend them and their impotent god in return. No more mister nice guy.
The whole point of the 'freedom of speech' laws is to ensure you aren't killed because you have a contrary opinion.
Honestly, 'Freedom of Speech' means hearing things that you really don't like or want to hear.
It also mens that you must be able to defend your words. Saying "Gawd sez so" is no defense for anything. If you claim a god, then prove that godbeast.
I'm so excited for next week! I took a Death and Dying/Thanatology class a couple years ago and the subject has fascinated me ever since.
"What you think of me is none of my business " Mary Tyler Moore.
Yet the religionuts insist their imaginary sky fairy gives them the right to abuse others. After all, "Gawd sez so."
I am offended by being told by someone who believes that a virgin gave birth to the son of God that I am a sinner who is worthy of eternal punishment in Hell!!
Sin is a concept valid only to those stupid and gullible enough to buy such foolishness.
Great podcast! Loved hearing from the guy in hospital.
Great show. I especially liked the section with Dan Arel from 39:00 and at 47:00 where Seth says to go after the ideas rather than make insulting comments about the persons character.
See also Premier Christian radio show,"Unbelievable?" with host Justin Brierley interviewing John W. Loftus and David Marshall about Marshall's book "How Jesus passes the outsider test of faith" Like this TTA show they demonstrate how to debate religious thoughts in a calm & civil manner. It is amazing how Justin is prepared to voice the atheist point of view to show understanding of what John Loftus was saying even though he probably strongly disagrees with it and then ask David Marshall what his response is.
I listened to this episode on Stitcher. As always, it was great. Keep up the good work, I always learn something from your show and the people who write you/call in.
I have moments where I feel offended. Moments where people attack a certain physical property I have, which I cant do much about. Most people understand with age that this is something you should not attack. There is nothing to reflect upon, nothing to do about, you are stuck with what you got.
This isnt the case for the ideas that I have. People can try to offend any idea I got. If Im in the right, I got plenty to say in return. I can defend my position on its own merits and if not, that means they have just shown me that I need to delve deeper into my own held believes
Its for that reason I hardly ever feel offended. I enjoy the confrontation because it gives a chance to challange our ideas and grow as people. Seeing religion is an idea that I find highly damaging to society, I seek out that confrontation as well. If they are right, I will find their arguments hold water. If not, they might see the problems for themselves.
To allow one stupid idea to slip that scrutiny is to allow many stupid ideas to slip scrutiny. Stupid ideas hurt others, including the ones holding them, so I feel obligated to offend.
Stopping at being offensive is in my opinion the problem. It should be an initial spark that starts off discussion. After all, they seemingly want to defend their position, why not let them? Its that reason why I believe we should keep on being offensive. It *is* a discussion starter, an eye opener and a chance to learn from your fellow man.
I'd be offended if we did not do just that
If the religious can "hate the sin, not the sinner" by shouting hateful and bigoted remarks aimed AT "sexual deviants", then the religious has no right to feel that atheists making satirical remarks ABOUT the religion or aimed at specific parts of the religion to be an indirect attack on them personally!!
Nobody has the right to not be offended.
Andres64B Tell that to tumblr, they'll lynch you.
The second I started this podcast, I instantly realized that I read that Stephen quote a couple days ago and I am SO glad that you mentioned it. It's an amazing quote.
You find me offensive?
I find you offensive for finding me offensive...
A lil Eminem there :)
The way I handle ppl claiming they're being "offended" is by using reverse psychology. They'll usually say the usual of "you can't say that because that's my belief. That's what I hold dear to my heart". I say ok and try not to be an ass and ridicule them. But once I give them the chance to speak and say what's on their mind and say anything bad about science or atheism, I quickly stop them and yell out, "YOU CANT SAY THAT!!! I FIND THAT OFFENSIVE!!!"
When they give me that 'shocked' look and ask how's it offensive, I say, "i hold science and atheism close to MY heart and it's something I've accepted and believe in. so if you say anything negative about science or atheism, you're offending me"
Once they start giving me crap for calling them out on it I simply say, "so what you're saying is I can't offend you, but you can offend me??? I don't think so. Either we both have the right to criticize each others positions on what we hold dear or we don't. And if we don't, you can't say anything bad or criticize science and atheism anymore. And if you do, I'm calling you out for being a hypocrite"
It takes them a bit to get it but once they do they usually walk away.
I used to have a shirt that said "in the age of information ignorance is a choice" and it had the atheist symbol on it. I had a religious person tell me that the symbol on the shirt was offensive to them because it represents hatred, violence, racism, etc., so I shouldn't be wearing the shirt. I pointed to the cross they were wearing and said that it offended me that they were wearing that. When they asked how a symbol that represents love and kindness could offend me I explained that the symbol on my shirt only represents the fact that I don't accept religious claims and nothing more, while the cross represents a belief that I deserve eternal torture for the sole reason of me not believing the claims of christianity. So I looked at the the few people that were watching and asked, what sounds more offensive, I don't agree with you, or because you don't agree with me you deserve eternal torture? I walked away and heard a couple people trying to stifle laughs while the religious person stood there with nothing to say.
When someone says that they are offended by my opinion i say that their existence offends me and they have to stop doing that and stop offending me.
Nebojsa J i have a shirt that says "in the age of information ignorance is a choice" and it has an atheist symbol below the quote. I had a person get offended by the symbol because they believe it represents hatred, racism, immorality, etc. When i couldnt get them to leave me alone i told them that the cross they were wearing offended me because it represents the belief that im going to be tortured for all eternity because i dont agree with their beliefs. That got them to shut up.
I can relate to caller Steve. I find the more I learn about the natural world, I am less offended by anything, and I am less tolerant to ignorance.
You're breaking my heart Seth about getting old. I'm 66 next month and it only gets worse, get over it. :)
Paul
I have the proud(?) distinction of being one of the oldest of the baby boomers. LOL
I'm completely fascinated by offense-taking. What does it mean to be offended?
I can't imagine anyone being able to offend me by questioning my religious beliefs. If you're confidence in your positions, you're immune from people's questions and critiques.
BUT- if you believe in things without confidence, you're ripe for the picking.
Hi Seth, I was wondering if you had any concrete schedule for doing your podcasts? I'd like to mark them on my calendar so I don't miss one. This is also the first one I've listened to by you and I've really enjoyed it. You have such a great voice. I'm sure you hear that a lot. Thanks for being a great guy.
All you have to do when you come to Australia, is speak the truth about what you country believes. This will make us laugh! Most people believe in some sort of vague definition of a god, but no one really gives a toss if you do or don't believe. We would rather go to the footy on Saturday, get drunk Saturday night, and sleep till midday on Sunday, than get up for church! Just saying.
Why go to church?
The guy in the second email loved to bash atheists because of some way they handle religion. I hate these types of people. Sure just insulting isn't effective, but we are human. ALL of us. We don't work on a strict script. We ALL say "oh that's just Bullshit". And there is nothing wrong with doing that in a religious context. and telling someone "u are wrong" isn't "arrogance". It is simply pointing out errors. And he was basically trying to blame people who criticize religion by saying "well the consequences of people being offended is great, so lets tone it down". NO. This is exactly the wrong mentality. Violence is NEVER okay in response to mere words. Just because people do it doesn't mean we should cater to them. Ugh..for these reasons and more, this guy pisses me off
My best friend, who I've literally known all my life (we're both in our early 50's right now), is a fundamentalist, and I (for those who haven't seen any of my posts), self-identify as an anti-theist. I think that he believes that religious people are "more moral" than atheists, but he suffers from cognitive dissidence from time to time, because he has also proclaimed that I am a MUCH better friend to him than he is to me. Over the last several years, I have gone out of my way to help him, even when it entailed practically forcing my help on him (for which his wife is eternally grateful).
They have adopted 3 young (between 4 and 11) children, who they are teaching to be fundies as well, of course, but when we are out and about and they ask a question in the realm of religion, I'm not bashful at all to tell them that I don't believe in any gods and am, if anything, a Zen (philosophical) Buddhist, which means I'm still not "religious". I think this makes my friend uncomfortable, but he has yet to ask me not to say anything.
We've gotten into some very superficial debates about religion, but he doesn't go very far, I think because he knows he can't convert me and, to be honest, I think he is afraid that I might be able to de-convert him.
As a *former* Reiki healer, I wasn't taught about the healing properties of stones. What I was taught was that we don't cure people. It's basic Ethics that my teacher offered at level 1. We are told not to make medical claims unless we are licenced medical professionals. Reiki and other "energy healing" are used in addition to standard medicine, not in place of it. We are also told that the founder of Reiki healing was a Zen Buddhist, but it's done so that anyone of any belief or none can learn and practice. We are guided by Principles (Just for today, Let go of anger, let go of worry, be true to yourself, be grateful, be kind to yourself and others) rather than woo or dogma, but that doesn't stop individuals from injecting their own or acting like assholes.
I had a moment of offense in 2017 when a representative of a real "Woo" modality posted a link from a new age-y Dr. Brian Weiss saying that, "disease isn't caused by genetics but by the thoughts and feelings." It hit a nerve with me coming from a family that is impacted by Huntington's Disease, a neuro-degenerative disease, shown to be caused by a genetic mutation. And in my own life, being impacted by chronic conditions that happened at birth, before I had any awareness of or control over my own thoughts or feelings. It hurt me deeply that someone with a clear financial interest was trying to undermine what I knew to be true and resort to victim blaming. When I say I am a former pitcher of woo, that incident was the beginning of the end. I think I posted something on Facebook, referring vaguely to "a load of waffle." My teacher told me I was taking it too personally, but it displayed a clear lack of any kind of compassion or empathy, and it felt very personal to me.
About being offended: Absolutely! In trying to say things that are true i.e. having 'real' conversations sometimes real people are bound to be challenged by being on either end of the exchange. If I am offended I'll say so and hope to defend why the other person's statement was egregious. If someone says I am offending them, then they have to explain why, with evidence. Otherwise, two things can happen. One, one group will think they can say the most offensive thing possible and not have anyone call them out on it. Two, we can all self censor our discourse so as not to 'offend' anyone.
Heck, be responsible for what you say or when you yell, "Foul!" That works for me.
Talking about bad ideas that people might get offended about. When i worked at six flags over texas i had a lady once who refused to go through the metal detector because she believed they were powered by witchcraft, and of course we couldnt use the wand either because she thought they were magic wands. She got pissed off when we wouldnt let her into the park because we were not allowed to do pat downs and she couldnt come in without at least being wanded.
I really feel grateful that, as an atheist, I live in a country where, for most people your religion or lack of it is totally irrelevant. As well as fellow Atheists, My wife and I have many friends who are Christian, Jewish, Muslim and some who we know are religious, but of whom we have no idea which faith they belong to. The reason is that it just doesn't matter. People are people and if you must judge them, do it on the quality of their character, not on what god the follow.
I wish America could achieve this level of maturity. It reminds me of a comment by George Carlin:
*_”When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.”_*
lol I like the thumbnail of this... I should paint my enter key red and write "offend" on it, it seems I can't post anything without offending somebody!
Proudly offending the superstitious for decades.
Don't worry. Seth. Australia will love you. It's only a pity that you are not going to Perth, you love it. I'm back in the UK now, but that's where I used to live. Because it's right over the other side of the country, it does tend do get forgotten. Actually, we used to think of it as Australia's Best kept Secret.
Seth. Good show. 'Offense' is just so hard to quantify since one can be offended about pretty much anything.
Also, I'm wondering if you take suggestions for possible future shows. Have you heard of Dr. David Eller? He wrote 'Natural Atheism', probably one of the most erudite books on the rather broad topic of atheism. He dissects and advances so many interesting ideas philosophically that I haven't really heard elsewhere. His follow-up 'Atheism Advanced' is even more powerful. I think he would be a fantastic guest and someone that I think is not given an adequate voice within the 'atheist movement' but has some of the best insights regarding it's overall trajectory. Someone you may consider.
Keep up the most excellent work, brother.
When you spoke of feeling stupid, I totally am on the same page with you on that. Man everything I do is a bit slower. I go shopping today and I'm trying to pay for the goods. Every instruction on the cashier machine was realized so bloody slowly I was looking around to see if anyone is watching. It was embarrassing. And it's nothing I did that was outside the usual.
So no Seth, it's not just you today, hahaha.
I like the way that emailer acts like it's the atheists that are the arrogant, offensive and rude ones out there. Another tiresome religious apologist.
I cannot say that I am daily offended by the usages and practices of religion, but the fact is that they continue and frequently with no thought regarding my offense. Such religious elements can include everything from a prayer before a public meeting to public monies funding private schools through state voucher programs, particularly where these schools may teach creationism. Seth, you yourself said in another video that if THEY do it, it's called, "free speech," but if I call them on it, it's called, "persecution." I'm not sorry to say I'm not having any of that. It's one standard for EVERYBODY, and if those who feel offended cannot be bothered to grow a sufficiently thick skin to weather such slings and arrows, they will get no sympathy from me.
I submit that most if not all religious practices are deleterious because they are based in untruth, their core beliefs are unvalidated by any form of science and they are too often used to bilk followers and foster an "us-vs-them" mindset which is even more non-constructive. If believers take offense at such a statement, they can do multiple things:
• They can attempt to defend their beliefs, though such attempts lately are notably without success.
• They can attempt to alter the system they subscribe to, also not likely to work well.
OR
• They can look at those beliefs honestly and critically, and perhaps recognize as atheists have that they are poorly founded, that their holy books are rife with contradiction, violence, misogyny and homophobia and ill-conceived "morality," and having realized what is going on, *ABANDON THEM*.
I am daily offended by looking at crosses and being forced to listen to positive life radio 24/7
Am I the only one that finds the placement of the "offend" really odd? Does anyone even know where their 'scroll lock' key is?
Listening in from Ferrara, Italy! :-D
So when I get offended, how do I let comments like that glance off?
One of my favorite memes that ive seen, that probably offends some people, is one that has a picture of thor and it says "my god has a hammer, your god was nailed to a cross, any questions?"
Lolll
Good topic, Personally I disagree with the whole idea with being offended, its a pet peeve of mine. It's gotten so out of hand over the last decade. Being offended is nothing more than admitting you take something personally, it doesn't help you make a point or serve any purpose in an argument other than saying how something makes you feel, and how something makes you feel doesn't really help you make a point. What really annoys me is when people use it *instead* of an argument, as if saying that alone somehow means something. If you wanna make an argument and say you're offended fine, just make sure your argument backs up how you feel, to me its almost but not quite as bad as using the faith position.
What does one do when one is offended by the wilful ignorance and the boundless arrogance of the Faithful?
It also seems to be rather unclear to some,that offence is TAKEN not given...
So if the weak-willed, the spineless and the intellectually challenged are taken offence...why do we care again??
Cuddles !
Paddy
I will be meeting you in Fullerton! ^_^
27:00 - I think the characterization of "Jesus Fucking Christ" is great - in a certain context. In a discussion about theism, it's useless. But I think it's a wonderful recontextualization that forces us not to think so much about religion but language. I'm reminded of a little mental game I play when I listen to the radio - I imagine homophones (words that sound alike) being substituted in for one another. Sometimes the effect is pretty un-subtle: "More on President Bush in a moment" becomes "Moron President Bush in a moment", and other times it's really interesting "dissidents attacked the capital" goes from a statement about civil unrest to an existential statement of dissatisfaction: "dissidence attacked the capital". "You need to stop right now" moves from an imperative to cease to a sudden command to whip out a pen or to start typing: "You need to stop. Write now!" In that context, turning "fucking" from an adjective to a verb has a dramatic, unsubtle effect. But, no, I wouldn't want it on a t-shirt or in a debate - serious or otherwise - aimed at convincing anyone out of their theist presuppositions.
I've learned about myself by listening to this episode. Thanks, Seth. Good topic.
I can't remember who said this but I agree fully with it, "I may be offended by what you say but I will fight to the death for you to be able to say it."
Trust me, don't worry about being embarrassed or anything in Australia, you would not BELIEVE how many things have happened before here, much worse then embarrassment, and we consider it normal. -From a true Aussie. :)
When I hear, "I'm offended!" I think, so what's your argument?
I regards to the future death-related podcast, I'm not afraid of death personally... it's the "dying" part i'm kinda uncomfortable with. ;D
12:30 - Newsboys - that reminds me. There was this great late 80s to mid 90s industrial rock band called Dessau which never had a lot of output or exposure, but what little there was (three albums with some song overlap) was quite a solid combination of industrial and post punk. It was effectively one guy by the name of John Elliot. On a random "where are they now" web search, I found that Elliot had turned toward Christian music, including working with Newsboys and forming Passafist. What a waste.
The right to be offended REQUIRES the right to offend...
26:50 regarding the point of offensive stuff not being effective, I think a lot of people are just soooo fed up with having to live in a world overrun with irrational people, so we just make fun of them for entertainment only. I think of that whenever I watch "Sye Ten Atheist", he's not going to convince anybody Picture someone that is just tired of making good arguments, and watching people be immune to logic, so they give up and just laugh.
6:50 Done! as a ordained Tech prist/part time Diiscordinist pope/Patron saint of stain removal (ordained by the universal life church) I here by give my approval of all non-religious marriages.
(I'm also part-part time pastafarian every now and then so i can give that blessing too while i am at it...
I am a fully ordained Minister...)
***** - I've been reading up on "anti-prescription therapy," which is supposed to reverse hyperopia/myopia. I haven't figured out if it's based on science or if it's a gimmick based on some random person's theory.
The theory behind it is that (if you're near-sighted - prescriptions with negative numbers), you're supposed to do close-up things with lenses for far-sighted people (reading glasses - plus-numbered therapy). The opposite method is to be used by people with hyperopia. Another tenet of this theory is to wear lenses that don't correct your vision to 20/20 (so if you need lenses that are -5.00, wear lenses that are, say, -4.50), which apparently the eyes will eventually adjust to (it's supposed to be "exercise" and eventually the focus will "clear.").
This allegedly makes your eyes focus in a different way and works the muscles in your eyes - and "with dedication and time," it will gradually bring your vision back to zero (20/20 vision). I'm still not convinced, even though a lot of people claim it worked for them. I'm going to ask my optometrist about this next time I see him to see what they have to say about it.
And yeah, I got "progressives" for the first time this year at the age of almost-42. Not sure how I feel about it. LOL!
What do I find offensive? False accusations. When a theist says "You do believe in God. You're just suppressing him in your unrighteousness." That offends me. It is one reason why I despise Sye Ten Bruggencate, because _that's all he ever does!_
Being offended is a mean thing you do to other people in order to avoid having to seriously consider their argument.
I don't understand how religious types have the temerity to try to interfere with ANYONE's beliefs. What gives them the right to comment anyway?
transcript of Tim s letter needed ♥
I'm Offended when so many want to bring down the level of knowledge learned by the human race to control other's thru ignorance.
Paul
In response to the topic, being offenDED is a choice just as much as intentionally offenDING someone. There are people who would be offended if the wind blew from the wrong direction.
Someone being called Islamophobic because they are criticizing religious extremism is offensive and more to the point counterproductive. The term is used deliberately in order to shut down much-needed conversation and reform.
Nothing is offensive. It's another word for "I don't like". I don't give a shit what you don't like. When what you don't like bleeds into the rest of our lives then what you don't like becomes mute.
pretty much. it's the new trope in our society.. to feel offended and cry about it
I still think that there are things you shouldn't say to people, like making fun of their appearance or, race.
When someone says "I find that offensive" I reply along the lines of the comedian Steve Hughes "Well then be offended, what's wrong with being offended?"
That said, it's true that too many people use "Freedom of Speech" as an excuse to be a twat, with no wit or underlying point to the jokes, for those people I suggest taking notes from another comedian, Frankie Boyle, unapolagetically vicious but actually making points with it.
What happened in Paris was offensive. The repercussions after the attack were also offensive. All the victim blaming from people I wouldn't expect to say such things.
I have a feeling that this sympathy for the killers from the Christian fundamentalists could lead to a push for anti - blasphemy laws to be enacted here in the US. It's so easy for them to feign offense at every criticism of their intolerance. There are many lawmakers here that sympathize with their agenda and wouldn't hesitate to attempt to undo the strives we've made in increasing the scope of our 1st amendment rights. The leaning of our legislature and Supreme Court makes this a doubly dangerous thought. Let's hope that reason prevails if any attempt to pass such laws happens.
It doesn't make good sense to live in fear of death, the inevitable, but when fear-instinct is combined with the idea of complete annihilation of Self-Ego, and "I" won't be here to think ironic amusing thoughts about my death after I'm dead ... Well that's kinda a bummer. But that's how it is. Death send not so hard to "accept" in the abstract until one contemplates death deeply.
Here's a little twist on a regular theists saying... I will tolerate the person, but I don't have to tolerate the religion.
All of the stuff in that email from Arthur cautioning atheists about what to do in debates, should also be stated in an open letter to Creationists as well. I have noticed that Creationists will reduce themselves to doing such things when it has been shown that their arguments simply don't hold water. I see this more often on the Creationist side of the debate than I do on the atheist side.
"Progressives" are called varifocal in UK. I've been told laser surgery does not work on age related eyesight degeneration by laser surgery companies trying to sell it to me.
I don’t believe in apologizing for saying anything that someone finds offensive. I just don’t give a fuck
How about we tell the people engaging in violence to not engage in violence. If someone engages in violence because I offended their religion, they are in the wrong. Violence is NEVER acceptable when someone simply says words you don't like.
I feel you on the feeling offended by your state. Iowa has Stephen King, and now Joni Ernst. UGH.
As usual fine podcast.
The part where you disagree that offending the religious is not the same as offending homosexuals or people of color i have to disagree with your approach here.
People adhere to certain identities, mostly seen as positive by them whatever they selfidentify as does not matter. It will become a part of their persona. As soon as you attack/criticize or show negative traits to that identity, they all get offended in the same manner. You attack a part of that person while attacking religion, sexuality or race and if they see that part as positive, they will go through hell to defend it.
Look at (especially male) feminists. It applies to them too. To a degree it applies to atheists too, as long as you see it as a positive part of yourself. If someone talks crap about atheism in general, they are indirectly targetting your identity.
Is there a difference between offense and disgust? Say, where some people's offense transmutes into my disgust. Those who typically take the greatest offense seem to be the ones demanding the most leeway with respect to their peculiarities; the ones who also tend to give the least when encountering something new and or different.
What makes something "offensive" has nothing whatsoever to do with its content. It has everything to do with who said or did it, and what powerful-or not so powerful-groups identify with that person.
Nope. Offense has nothing whatsoever to do with the sayer or doer. It has everything to do with the person claiming to be offended.
It's a way of announcing to the world that you are still a child, and give control of your own emotions to everybody but yourself.
***** Agreed. Taking offence is a choice.
The filmmaker Theo van Gogh shouted, “We can still talk about it! To the peaceful Muslim who was attempting to cut Theo's head off. The poor misunderstood Moslem then used his bloody knife to pin a note to Theo's chest saying: “AYAAN HIRSI ALI, YOU WILL SMASH YOURSELF ON ISLAM! That is the same Ayaan Hirsi Ali who Social Jusice Warriors and Atheist + 'ers have been stabbing in the back along with Harris, Dawkens, and all Anitheist. So can we really still talk about it with such as these?
Myeeehhh.... I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of the manner in which I die. Once I'm dead, it doesn't matter, but getting to that point has the potential to really suck. I'm just not sure what scares me more...
Dementia, or burning alive?
i liked the jesus effing crist one, only because it made me laugh, as sye ten atheist said "there's a borderline in comedy"
its hard not to get angry when faced with dumb childish answers.
Ahh the "offend" key. My favorite!
being offended is not an excuse to commit violence.
Todd Russ should have been immediately been removed from his seat for tabling that bill.
The fact that they dread it is the proof that religious people know there's only one life God is just their denial.
There's no way you can challenge someone's core beliefs without them being threatened, "I'm offended" = "I feel threatened". Well you people of faith, bear this in mind, I find what you do offensive, I feel threatened by it, so if you don't want to be offended, may be you should stop offending.
I am offended by the harm that Religion causes.
I have worn glasses since the 4th grade.
There was a Canadian Flat Earth Society but didn't actually believe in a flat earth and were more of a humor group.
Everyone has the right to feel offended, no question. However, I don't think you should use that as an argument. It's freedom of speech, someone is going to find offense about something. My stance on it, if something offends you, that's your problem, deal with it.
Arthur I disagree. Evidence largely has no effect on believers. At least not immediately and almost never for the the person you are presenting it. Often arguments are made for the benefit of others. There is also something to be said about speaking in retalation. I have little desire to engage honestly with someone who has shown no desire to do the same. Also offensive speech can be cathartic and for firing up one's base and trying to motivate people.
I have seen that Jesus Fing Christ meme and have shown it to many of my religious friends and all of them laugh. I do not feel that it was created to be offensive, I believe it was created to put the common saying into perspective.
This term."offended" really is a subjective way of saying "I don't like what u say" so what?. Atheists have no more of an obligation to.be silent than ANY other idea or ideas. We criticize, ridicule, mock, challenge ALL ideas and beliefs openly. Yet with religion some people think "ohh we have to be super careful not to.offend" such crap. They use this as a mechanism for playing victim. Doesn't work
I'm so sorry. FIRST!
Everyone has a right to be offended, that much I will defend. What they do not have is the right to be offended without reason, that is, they do not have the right to prop up only that they're offended as if it is some point in their favor. I'm sorry, but I don't give a fuck if you're just blindly offended. If you would like figure out and tell me why you're offended, then maybe we can talk. That doesn't necessarily garauntee I'll listen, especially if you're reason for offense is laugable, but we could at least get to the point of doing something productive like discussing it.
I personally prefer to attack ideas rather than people. I'll admit that I can't help the odd ad hominem but it's not option one and usually not option two.
I get a little hair triggered when some smug bloke or another deliberately strawmans me. But that is because they are not debating honestly.
Linving in a non-christian country would that mean no marriages here would be considered valid? Here there is mostly Shinto and Buddhist :-P
The Pope: "I don't condone the violence but, I condone the violence when in defence of my money maker."
Don't buy a telescope without going to a local club first and talking and going out to observe with them. The asteroid would have just been another dot of light. You would have to watch the sky and over a few minutes looking for 1 of them moving a bit. Most keen observers would look and when they find it, they immediately will back away from the scope and invite others to come over and look at it. They enjoy the hunt as much as the looking :)
When I still believed in god, my own questions offended me (facepalm)
30:04 "Ass weasel"? That's one I've never heard before.