Here's the thing, the majority of people who want to see photography content on Instagram are other people trying to get exposure for their photos, a very small margin of people are the ones who just look for photography for pleasure and do not take photos. The only reason big photography instagramers have many followers is because they do something else, ie. they are youtubers ect, which then makes them into a sort of celebrity, which is what people are following, they follow people, not photos.
While most of your post is true, that doesn't explain why there are so many photography accounts out there that just repost artists work and have hundreds of thousands of followers.
@@angelspawn7734 well that is a very simple thing to explain. If you look at them followers of those 'zine' accounts that just repost, you will notice that most of follower are either straight fake acc ormiddle eastern/indian acc with guys with just 1 photo or similar. Even the 'big' accounts like lensculture and such, they too have many fisshy followers
I believe it was John Szarkowski who said, "There are now more photographs than bricks in the world, and each is unique.". That's a lot to look at. He also said, "To quote out of context is the essence of the photographer's craft."
I have to say, I agree wholeheartedly that the size of your following is immaterial. My photography page has 15K followers and brings me precisely $0 in return (though its a hobby so $$$ are not my driver). My niche building business however only has 700 followers but brings me $500,000 per year in revenue.
I think it’s the quality of the audience that counts more than the quality. I have around 230 followers - and almost all of them are other artists. When they give me likes, I appreciate that because they’re mostly artists themselves, and I learn from what hits the button! I block typically 2-3 per day that are some type of scammers or commercial in different fields entirely, if I didn’t I’d have thousands of followers, but I wouldn’t value their collective opinion.
Spot on - and it shines a light on the basic problem I guess. As an artist you also need to have a need to grow you ego and be a salesman, nowadays. And it begs the question - will that bigger following make you feel better about what you've created? At the end of the day, for myself I've realized it does nothing for the feeling of creating. Creating happens in the moment, and when it's done, the moment is gone. Everything after the actual moment is more of a childish need to be seen. The search for not needing affirmation is so much more interesting and I think in the long run will make anyone a better artist. It will help them create something that is more unique and free of the anxiety of what's hot or not so to speak. Love the channel and your passion. Cheers
I can only fully agree with your statements about IG from my own experience: I started out pretty late on IG after it was taken over by fb. At this point, times to collect a huge number of "followers" quickly was already gone for reasons you mentioned. But I did exactly what you described - instead of getting random followers, I stayed focused and build a community of work in photography related to my personal style - mostly film photography. I actually get a lot more interaction on IG with other serious amateur photographers who also just have a few hundred followers - the ones with > 5K followers rarely respond and often couldn't care less. IG now has two sides of a coin - one is for influencer and payable content, the other is for amateurs to build a (often smaller) community around. This community will grow over time, but it will go slowly. But this way I get more quality than quantity followers.
as a software engineer, the quick explanation you have made on the "Algorithm" is the more direct and accessible heard so far! :) Kudos! There would be people at Instagram that constantly work on an evolving model for the "Algorithm", so don't bother is the best advice ever :)
@@tacituskilgore8379 Here's the thing, it's not up to you on social media (less irl) to say if your photography is damn decent, the viewers with the invisible algorithm hand will have the last word. There are so many crappy and indecent posts that get hundreds and hundreds of thousands view and likes while true beautiful and arty posts are ignored. That proves that beauty is subjective and IG is not really a platform where art can be appreciated or disliked wisely.
There are people who will post images to attempt to get likes. They may want to become popular or famous somehow. They’ll post subjects that are popular because they’ve seen that content somewhere else and try to emulate or copy it somehow. This is all a quick fix of an attempt to whatever they’re doing to become popular. The posts that others do are being dictated by likes. They’re direction is going the wrong way. My posts won’t be dictated by likes because then others are controlling my content. I’m not letting that happen. I can’t guess what others like around the world. I post what I want. I’m a creator and it’s my account. Do I get likes? Yes. Do I have followers? Yes. I do what I can to be consistent and put out quality work. I also did one thing a popular RUclips creator mentioned in one of his videos, which is to post in blocks when possible, so the images aren’t inconsistent and a mash of different things. It must be organized. That’s what you’re trying to do. If it isn’t organized, what does it say about you or your work? Look at other people’s work. Is it the same/ similar as yours? Do you follow or post comments? Do you use Instagram to find other people doing photography that you haven’t tried or attempted to do? Do you follow them? Do you post comments? This is a bit of appreciation and networking. It works both ways. When you acknowledge what others are doing, it will encourage them to post more content. It will show that you appreciate their work. They might return the favour. That’s what it’s all about.
Of course, you're right. As a nonfiction writer and editor for 48 years I've learned that the hardest and most necessary thing is the ability and eagerness to put yourself in the other guy's shoes. Followed by a simple observation that people achieve in proportion to their energy and mental concentration. And finally, an expansive point of view that finds joy in embracing widening circles of awareness.
This is sort of my guess how it works and forgive me if you covered it all... but a big part of growing and retaining an audience for your work is regularly having something new to engage them. So frequency of upload is actually quite a big factor. Ideally you want to have a new offering to reward your audience as often as they check for it (or the platform serves it) so that you become part of their IG ritual. Branding for your work helps signal to the right audience that your work is a good fit for them. Familiar themes, styles, subjects help build the ritual and brand. You know sometimes I am tempted to follow someone because they have some amazing work, but their feed is also littered with things I don’t want to see so I skip the follow. So at least early on it might be helpful to have a narrow focus of what you are most passionate about and maybe slowly broaden it over time as you gain the engagement that triggers the platform to serve up your content to others.
I've noticed that I usually gain followers from people whose work I've liked and/or commented on (but I'm not one of those people who mass like stuff in hopes of getting likes/followers).
Use hashtags. Find people with the same interests and see what tags they are using. As much as people say hashtags don’t work, they do. My analytics show that about half of my interactions come from tags. Post consistently. Post an image once a day, at least every other day. Use a new account. Don’t try to recycle your old personal account that you have had since 2009 and post photos of your cats and your food. Start fresh, and the algorithm will naturally promote your account to others with similar interests. Change your account from personal to business.
I am a working professional photographer and I don’t look for models on Instagram so why would people be looking for photographers on Instagram. Instagram is just another tool in your arsenal to promote yourself especially if you can’t afford a website you can send prospective clients to review your work, and it’s just so easy to post new images. Great video very informative!
Well... Sometimes, I feel quite grateful, that I'm not working as a photographer - it's what I do when I'm not working. Right now in fact, I'm not very active because I'm waiting for the last pieces to my next project. I still do photography related activities every day - it's just more reading photography books and watching videos about photography and gear - and trying to decide what direction to take with my next gear purchases and so on. I share new photos on Instagram every week - but it's stuff from last summer and autumn, I haven't had a chance to share yet. I don't have to rely on social media for income purposes, so I share what I like to share, when I have something to share.
Instagram and to a lesser extent other social media have the tendency to homogenize photography. Chasing likes photographers change their style to ensure they get likes on the platform. So, everything begins to look the same. Great art is never created by the majority or by "likes". One need only think of artists like Picasso, etc who were hated by the mass "like" community. Or Stravinsky and his Rites of Spring. Can you image how few likes those two would have gotten. I think it is responsible for the sad state of innovation in Landscape photography: only sunrise or sunset, only epic vistas, etc. I don't even pay attention to those golden hour photos anymore because they are so cliche. I look for something interesting or a new approach, angle, etc. Social media is both hurting original photography and providing an outlet for photos now that printed magazines are dying. Personally I still prefer to see the photos in National Geographics to those on instagram. A thoughtful episode I think. I'm glad to see more content video from the Art of Photography rather than gear episodes.
I gotta tell you that you understand that dreaded 'algorithm' part better than 99.9% of marketers, RUclipsrs, and influencers out there :) This is coming from a programmer and tech marketer who worked with 8 and 9-figure companies for over a decade.
Great advice plus your absolutely correct. If we allow ourselves to focus more on creating and having fun, awesome things will start to happen. Good luck everyone 😊
That is a really well put together response with some thought provoking ideas. Ted, I don’t have any firm data to support my argument, but with respect to running a small business as a Photographer I suspect the time and effort required to do all the things you mentioned in this video might be better served on a multifaceted marketing campaign across different platforms. Instagram is just one platform and to get your voice/imagery/talent/etc out to the masses there are way more ways available to you. Like you mentioned it’s important to consider your purpose for using Instagram and to be clear and honest to yourself about what you wan to get out of it.
Fantastic topic Ted Forbes and thanks for spelling it out! I agree, Context and The Creative Process is what lure people into something. And also your comparison to the Virtual Cocktail Party is spot on. Thanks for all the great content you make and share through your wonderful channel!
I actually like the conceptual stuff. As a hobbyist who just wants to learn and share I’ve taken inspiration from you and Sean Tucker. I’m using one body and one lens and taking photo walks when I can. I try to post a photo a day on Instagram, then plan on culling it down to the best at the end of a year or so and seeing what to do with them. Whether it’s a photo book or show or whatever. Not to make money, just for the fun of it. So I don’t mind not having a big following there. But it is interesting to see which pics get more engagement. I don’t really know what to do with hashtags though. Sometimes I add them and sometimes I don’t. Still learning, thanks.
@@scotttucker9613 Thanks for the input but like I said, I'm not as concerned with growing a following as much as doing this for myself. Posting something most days is just how I'm being accountable.
Always interesting videos, but, I have to say I miss your photographer spotlight videos you used to do. I'd love to see you do one on Meatyard like you did on Saul Leiter and Fan Ho, for example.
Thank you, solid advice. Check your expectations at the door and step back to understand how it works and how it expects you to work and roll with it from there. You can't compare your acct to others who have been in for years, growing an acct today is very different than growing an acct five years ago.
I find its just handy to have my work somewhere thats easily accessible and can just call it up at a moments notice , a portable portfolio, as for followers you just can't worry about that , spend more time exhibiting in the real world , like it was before the internet is probably a better use of time
Ted- I loved the perspective given in this video. I’ve been struggling a little bit with this same thing. I suppose one could say I drifted a bit away from showing my best and was leaning toward “receiving back praise” that my work was the best of just interesting. Time to re-focus and just continue to put out better more interesting work. Thanks for this video and the subtle kick in the pants. -Anthony
I find i do better on Twitter than Instagram. Not looking so much for likes or followers but the interaction is nice. Just not really happening on Instagram.
That's interesting. I've always thought Twitter wouldn't be good for photography. Do you have any tips on growing an audience there? I mean, I'm not looking for a huge audience, but I'd like to have an audience that are interested on what I have to shares and interacts. I don't really see it on Instagram at the moment.
I haven't figured most of that stuff out as I don't have a smart phone to work with. My feed is generally best viewed as a grid on a computer as everything is some variation on a tryptic. In reality audience is about 12...
What is the obsession with growing on social media for the sake of growing on social media? On any platform - do you really want to spend your time pandering to the latest trend to get a bunch of "likes" & "followers"? Do something worthwhile and you will find your niche. If you are just following trends your are already behind in the game or will just waste a life chasing them....
Much like real life, where many people are in the mindset, "What can the world do for me?" instead of, "What can I offer the world?" The latter perspective is much more under our own influence, and much more fulfilling.
Really great video Ted! Would be interested to hear you talk about the importance of having a website VS / in addition to Social Media. Particularly regarding the value of “owning” your own website vs being a participant on a platform....
That's something I'm struggling with currently. I have an OK following right now but I feel that I need to give them more than just photos. I'm starting post questions, thoughts, and that's helping a little. I'm struggling with how I should engage them more and I'm definitely thinking of doing some Lives and making some short vids and posting that in my Stories.
this sounds great and all but the moral of the story is "your pictures wont make you popular but your popularity will. that or suggestive pictures of women"
Unless your are a business, I would put your efforts into a platform other than Instagram. It’s a terrible platform for artists. No organic growth. Features nobody really wants and no support.
@@TexasPelican That sounds a bit silly. I am neither a publicity hound, and I’m not a serious artist. I enjoy photography as a hobby, something to learn and have fun with. I use Instagram as a tool to share some of my photos, see others photos, and have some sort of path to network with people that have similar interests. What are these other venues for serious artists?
@@KBRC81 My bad, didn't mean to imply you personally. I should have phrased that more abstractly. Serious artists use venues like 500px or DeviantArt. I think there are some others but like you, I'm a hobbyist.
Hey Ted! Interesting thoughts on IG. Should a photographer post works that are a part of a project on IG as they go along? Why or why not? I've heard the argument that all you're doing is diluting the potential interest in the final project. On the other hand in light of IG's dominance in social media, do photographers (especially unknown ones) do themselves a disservice by NOT posting to the platform? Thanks!
The key to growing a channel on Instagram is to be a female hardbody who does daily naked yoga from exotic locations all over the world while convincing us this is absolutely normal 😆
I think you have to be good and unique, but I think people also really want some kind of theme in your photos that they can look forward to. Probably some dopamine release thing or something.
The only way to know if you are delivering work people want to see is to get it in front of them too see in the first place. The way Instagram works, this simply doesn't happen. People are not seeing the work. When I look at instagrammers with large followings, a lot of them do not have great work, most are barely passable in fact. Yet, they get thousands of likes, this of course is because they already have a large following (usually because of the old algorithms) - example you have 10k followers, if only 10% like something that is still 1000 likes. Now I don't claim to know how Instagram works on an engineering level (few do, literally this is their secret sauce) but I do know two things. 1. RUclips promotes CNN videos even though if you look at the likes vs dislikes, their videos get significantly more dislikes than likes. One would think this would push their videos down in the list (it absolutely would if it was your or my videos), yet we see this is not the case with CNN and they are not the only accounts that this is evident. 2. Facebook (owns Instagram) my facebook page used to be much larger around 600 followers. When I started my page years ago, it would be shown to hundreds of people. Now 15 people see it......................if I want more, I have to boo$t the post. you can't build an audience when only 15 people are seeing your work. Contrast this with just posting to a group or my personal account, I get 100's of views and likes. Cold hard math would suggest that if you were big a few years ago with the old algorithms, you will remain big. New people will not unless they pay to have their work seen. This is why Flickr is superior to Instagram. It's still merit based. if you're good, people will follow / see..........sincerely ........and not the like for like bs on insta.
One thing I'm wrestling with on IG is how many photos to share per day. I've historically only done one per day, but my bank of yet-to-share images is getting so large that I could sell all my camera gear and keep posting for a few years! My fear is that my content would just get diluted by posting 3 per day, yet I've heard some people say that 3 per day is about right. Any thoughts on that?
"want to look at", how true. Cliche photos get old. For example, a profile of an animal just sitting there. You may like yours, and it may look great, but its been done a million times, especially these days.
I'm never one for likes, I shoot for myself, no one else. However, I have 1,500 followers gained organically, I hashtag my landscape shots with the 25 most popular relevant hashtags. Sometimes my reach is 200 people, the next post reaches 700, the next back to 200. Its bullsh*t.
It depends on what kind of photos you share I assume. Sexy shots always get more and faster likes than others. But they are only for a moment, nothing that stays in your mind like a nice landscape photo or anything like this. I agree making interesting content is a good way to get more followers.
Why? I got instagram, have some followers, then what? Well I photograph at first only for my self and learning to find something to hang on the wall. But followers, do not really need it. Would rather have the comments and discussions.
The only people that care about process are other creators. In the real world, no one cares about what camera, what settings etc. Most of the images on Instagram that claim to be photos are actually composited digital art pieces. no one cares (they should because this is disingenuous at best forgery at worst). Showing process is fine *IF* you want to be an educator (which honestly seems like the only way to make money on social media these days) I think anyone who is overly concerned with sharing work should watch a few Daniel Milnor videos to get your photographic head on straight.
Do you want followers other than by those you are close to and want to share experience with? or are you in a business that requires followers for to attract customers? or something else.
This makes sense as far as what to include with the photos to make them more personal. I know someone that includes a backstory for each post and I’ll start doing that too.
With social media, you-are-the-product. You give the site your work for FREE, and the sell it for a profit. In other words you are a Digital Sharecropper. My question is why do you think that you need to give away content?
The only way to win at Instagram is to not play. Awful platform for photogs creating work that's intended for people to look at it. If you want to just make 1sec eye buzz, insta is perfect. If you want an audience that looks and even immerses themselves in your work, Insta is the antithesis to that. It's awful. Not to mention that the algorithm and even the engagement suppresses creativity. You start creating for likes, looking at whats popular and copying, all of it is awful for creativity.
I don't want to be famous. I want to sell photos but I don't want to be famous - because that seems like a pain in the behind. Any tips on selling one's work in a way that generates passive income? Like licensing to magazines and etc - where one's name won't be bandied about - for the recluses among us?
It's stupid. They want you to pay! The hashtags method is dead. It's whom ever is more popular gets promoted for exposure because everyone wants to see them. There is too many people with sub-par content; so to maintain they only publish or show you the best which is through followers and likes as judgement. That's why those IG accounts that isn't individual serves the best.
Here's the thing, the majority of people who want to see photography content on Instagram are other people trying to get exposure for their photos, a very small margin of people are the ones who just look for photography for pleasure and do not take photos.
The only reason big photography instagramers have many followers is because they do something else, ie. they are youtubers ect, which then makes them into a sort of celebrity, which is what people are following, they follow people, not photos.
I think you hit the nail on the head here.
Truth
While most of your post is true, that doesn't explain why there are so many photography accounts out there that just repost artists work and have hundreds of thousands of followers.
@@angelspawn7734 well that is a very simple thing to explain. If you look at them followers of those 'zine' accounts that just repost, you will notice that most of follower are either straight fake acc ormiddle eastern/indian acc with guys with just 1 photo or similar. Even the 'big' accounts like lensculture and such, they too have many fisshy followers
I believe it was John Szarkowski who said, "There are now more photographs than bricks in the world, and each is unique.". That's a lot to look at. He also said, "To quote out of context is the essence of the photographer's craft."
I have to say, I agree wholeheartedly that the size of your following is immaterial. My photography page has 15K followers and brings me precisely $0 in return (though its a hobby so $$$ are not my driver). My niche building business however only has 700 followers but brings me $500,000 per year in revenue.
If you don’t advertise you are done. Instagram used to grow accounts naturally now they have turned into a money machine.
I think it’s the quality of the audience that counts more than the quality. I have around 230 followers - and almost all of them are other artists. When they give me likes, I appreciate that because they’re mostly artists themselves, and I learn from what hits the button! I block typically 2-3 per day that are some type of scammers or commercial in different fields entirely, if I didn’t I’d have thousands of followers, but I wouldn’t value their collective opinion.
Spot on - and it shines a light on the basic problem I guess. As an artist you also need to have a need to grow you ego and be a salesman, nowadays. And it begs the question - will that bigger following make you feel better about what you've created? At the end of the day, for myself I've realized it does nothing for the feeling of creating. Creating happens in the moment, and when it's done, the moment is gone. Everything after the actual moment is more of a childish need to be seen. The search for not needing affirmation is so much more interesting and I think in the long run will make anyone a better artist. It will help them create something that is more unique and free of the anxiety of what's hot or not so to speak. Love the channel and your passion. Cheers
I can only fully agree with your statements about IG from my own experience: I started out pretty late on IG after it was taken over by fb. At this point, times to collect a huge number of "followers" quickly was already gone for reasons you mentioned. But I did exactly what you described - instead of getting random followers, I stayed focused and build a community of work in photography related to my personal style - mostly film photography. I actually get a lot more interaction on IG with other serious amateur photographers who also just have a few hundred followers - the ones with > 5K followers rarely respond and often couldn't care less. IG now has two sides of a coin - one is for influencer and payable content, the other is for amateurs to build a (often smaller) community around. This community will grow over time, but it will go slowly. But this way I get more quality than quantity followers.
as a software engineer, the quick explanation you have made on the "Algorithm" is the more direct and accessible heard so far! :) Kudos!
There would be people at Instagram that constantly work on an evolving model for the "Algorithm", so don't bother is the best advice ever :)
I’ve given up on IG. It’s time wasted imo
IG is such a bad platform for photography. I was there was a better option
Flickr is best for photography, by far. They do not screw up your photos like IG.
@@LonStar3000 I find it near impossible to gain followers on Flickr. And I'm perfectly comfortable saying my photography is pretty damn decent.
step 1 on gaining exposure on IG, have a youtube or tiktok following lol
Exactly! I would say people should try to get involved in projects rather than try to get followers on Instagram.
@@tacituskilgore8379 Here's the thing, it's not up to you on social media (less irl) to say if your photography is damn decent, the viewers with the invisible algorithm hand will have the last word. There are so many crappy and indecent posts that get hundreds and hundreds of thousands view and likes while true beautiful and arty posts are ignored. That proves that beauty is subjective and IG is not really a platform where art can be appreciated or disliked wisely.
The way to be professional and be bluntly to the point.
There are people who will post images to attempt to get likes. They may want to become popular or famous somehow. They’ll post subjects that are popular because they’ve seen that content somewhere else and try to emulate or copy it somehow. This is all a quick fix of an attempt to whatever they’re doing to become popular. The posts that others do are being dictated by likes. They’re direction is going the wrong way.
My posts won’t be dictated by likes because then others are controlling my content. I’m not letting that happen. I can’t guess what others like around the world.
I post what I want. I’m a creator and it’s my account. Do I get likes? Yes. Do I have followers? Yes. I do what I can to be consistent and put out quality work. I also did one thing a popular RUclips creator mentioned in one of his videos, which is to post in blocks when possible, so the images aren’t inconsistent and a mash of different things. It must be organized. That’s what you’re trying to do. If it isn’t organized, what does it say about you or your work?
Look at other people’s work. Is it the same/ similar as yours? Do you follow or post comments? Do you use Instagram to find other people doing photography that you haven’t tried or attempted to do? Do you follow them? Do you post comments? This is a bit of appreciation and networking. It works both ways. When you acknowledge what others are doing, it will encourage them to post more content. It will show that you appreciate their work. They might return the favour. That’s what it’s all about.
‘What your saying and what your doing’ 💯 agree 👌🏼
Of course, you're right. As a nonfiction writer and editor for 48 years I've learned that the hardest and most necessary thing is the ability and eagerness to put yourself in the other guy's shoes. Followed by a simple observation that people achieve in proportion to their energy and mental concentration. And finally, an expansive point of view that finds joy in embracing widening circles of awareness.
This is sort of my guess how it works and forgive me if you covered it all... but a big part of growing and retaining an audience for your work is regularly having something new to engage them. So frequency of upload is actually quite a big factor. Ideally you want to have a new offering to reward your audience as often as they check for it (or the platform serves it) so that you become part of their IG ritual. Branding for your work helps signal to the right audience that your work is a good fit for them. Familiar themes, styles, subjects help build the ritual and brand. You know sometimes I am tempted to follow someone because they have some amazing work, but their feed is also littered with things I don’t want to see so I skip the follow. So at least early on it might be helpful to have a narrow focus of what you are most passionate about and maybe slowly broaden it over time as you gain the engagement that triggers the platform to serve up your content to others.
"The Secret To Growing on Instagram"
Answer: Make "The Secret To Growing on Instagram" videos.
I've noticed that I usually gain followers from people whose work I've liked and/or commented on (but I'm not one of those people who mass like stuff in hopes of getting likes/followers).
Use hashtags. Find people with the same interests and see what tags they are using. As much as people say hashtags don’t work, they do. My analytics show that about half of my interactions come from tags.
Post consistently. Post an image once a day, at least every other day.
Use a new account. Don’t try to recycle your old personal account that you have had since 2009 and post photos of your cats and your food. Start fresh, and the algorithm will naturally promote your account to others with similar interests.
Change your account from personal to business.
I am a working professional photographer and I don’t look for models on Instagram so why would people be looking for photographers on Instagram. Instagram is just another tool in your arsenal to promote yourself especially if you can’t afford a website you can send prospective clients to review your work, and it’s just so easy to post new images. Great video very informative!
Well... Sometimes, I feel quite grateful, that I'm not working as a photographer - it's what I do when I'm not working. Right now in fact, I'm not very active because I'm waiting for the last pieces to my next project.
I still do photography related activities every day - it's just more reading photography books and watching videos about photography and gear - and trying to decide what direction to take with my next gear purchases and so on.
I share new photos on Instagram every week - but it's stuff from last summer and autumn, I haven't had a chance to share yet. I don't have to rely on social media for income purposes, so I share what I like to share, when I have something to share.
no thanks...i am happy being ignored.. its so peaceful
Instagram and to a lesser extent other social media have the tendency to homogenize photography. Chasing likes photographers change their style to ensure they get likes on the platform. So, everything begins to look the same. Great art is never created by the majority or by "likes". One need only think of artists like Picasso, etc who were hated by the mass "like" community. Or Stravinsky and his Rites of Spring. Can you image how few likes those two would have gotten. I think it is responsible for the sad state of innovation in Landscape photography: only sunrise or sunset, only epic vistas, etc. I don't even pay attention to those golden hour photos anymore because they are so cliche. I look for something interesting or a new approach, angle, etc. Social media is both hurting original photography and providing an outlet for photos now that printed magazines are dying. Personally I still prefer to see the photos in National Geographics to those on instagram. A thoughtful episode I think. I'm glad to see more content video from the Art of Photography rather than gear episodes.
I gotta tell you that you understand that dreaded 'algorithm' part better than 99.9% of marketers, RUclipsrs, and influencers out there :) This is coming from a programmer and tech marketer who worked with 8 and 9-figure companies for over a decade.
The thought came to me while listening was it should be about 'what you can give and not what you can get' - great thought provoking video Ted
Great advice plus your absolutely correct. If we allow ourselves to focus more on creating and having fun, awesome things will start to happen. Good luck everyone 😊
You are always, so full of so much valuable info! Thank you!
That is a really well put together response with some thought provoking ideas. Ted, I don’t have any firm data to support my argument, but with respect to running a small business as a Photographer I suspect the time and effort required to do all the things you mentioned in this video might be better served on a multifaceted marketing campaign across different platforms. Instagram is just one platform and to get your voice/imagery/talent/etc out to the masses there are way more ways available to you. Like you mentioned it’s important to consider your purpose for using Instagram and to be clear and honest to yourself about what you wan to get out of it.
Great and accurate points, Ted, as usual!!
Fantastic topic Ted Forbes and thanks for spelling it out! I agree, Context and The Creative Process is what lure people into something. And also your comparison to the Virtual Cocktail Party is spot on. Thanks for all the great content you make and share through your wonderful channel!
I actually like the conceptual stuff. As a hobbyist who just wants to learn and share I’ve taken inspiration from you and Sean Tucker. I’m using one body and one lens and taking photo walks when I can. I try to post a photo a day on Instagram, then plan on culling it down to the best at the end of a year or so and seeing what to do with them. Whether it’s a photo book or show or whatever. Not to make money, just for the fun of it. So I don’t mind not having a big following there. But it is interesting to see which pics get more engagement. I don’t really know what to do with hashtags though. Sometimes I add them and sometimes I don’t. Still learning, thanks.
@@scotttucker9613 Thanks for the input but like I said, I'm not as concerned with growing a following as much as doing this for myself. Posting something most days is just how I'm being accountable.
Always interesting videos, but, I have to say I miss your photographer spotlight videos you used to do. I'd love to see you do one on Meatyard like you did on Saul Leiter and Fan Ho, for example.
Thank you, solid advice. Check your expectations at the door and step back to understand how it works and how it expects you to work and roll with it from there. You can't compare your acct to others who have been in for years, growing an acct today is very different than growing an acct five years ago.
I find its just handy to have my work somewhere thats easily accessible and can just call it up at a moments notice , a portable portfolio, as for followers you just can't worry about that , spend more time exhibiting in the real world , like it was before the internet is probably a better use of time
Thanks Ted. I always appreciate how genuine and honest when you talk about practical things like this!
Every time I try and grow something it dies.
You need to water it! :-)
Hair is pretty easy to go though, no?
@@Ruylopez778 Don't know, I've never put it in a pot and watered it. I'll take your word for it.
Ted- I loved the perspective given in this video. I’ve been struggling a little bit with this same thing. I suppose one could say I drifted a bit away from showing my best and was leaning toward “receiving back praise” that my work was the best of just interesting. Time to re-focus and just continue to put out better more interesting work. Thanks for this video and the subtle kick in the pants. -Anthony
I find i do better on Twitter than Instagram. Not looking so much for likes or followers but the interaction is nice. Just not really happening on Instagram.
That's interesting. I've always thought Twitter wouldn't be good for photography. Do you have any tips on growing an audience there? I mean, I'm not looking for a huge audience, but I'd like to have an audience that are interested on what I have to shares and interacts. I don't really see it on Instagram at the moment.
A great point you make is what am I offering my "audience".
Great insight! Thanks for sharing this perspective!
Your channel is pure quality. Glad I found it
I haven't figured most of that stuff out as I don't have a smart phone to work with. My feed is generally best viewed as a grid on a computer as everything is some variation on a tryptic. In reality audience is about 12...
What is the obsession with growing on social media for the sake of growing on social media? On any platform - do you really want to spend your time pandering to the latest trend to get a bunch of "likes" & "followers"? Do something worthwhile and you will find your niche. If you are just following trends your are already behind in the game or will just waste a life chasing them....
Ted: "Not anything can get on Netflix."
Me: "Oh my gawd... Ted has never used Netflix 🥺"
Really excellent advice...thanks, Ted.
The key is posting other people’s work and not giving them attribution.
Much like real life, where many people are in the mindset, "What can the world do for me?" instead of, "What can I offer the world?"
The latter perspective is much more under our own influence, and much more fulfilling.
Excellent content. I always learn a lot from your videos. Thank you.
Really great video Ted! Would be interested to hear you talk about the importance of having a website VS / in addition to Social Media. Particularly regarding the value of “owning” your own website vs being a participant on a platform....
Simply THE BEST kick in the pants that I needed to hear (and such a nicely delivered kick). Thank you indeed!
Love from Bangladesh
Hey man. Sem place hehe.
This is the video content I have been looking for to help me better my IG posts. Thank you!
Excellent advice Ted. Thanks for the Gems of knowledge...Just started this new account and really want to boost my following...Thanks.
They keep messing with the algorithm, how can you possibly keep up
That's something I'm struggling with currently. I have an OK following right now but I feel that I need to give them more than just photos. I'm starting post questions, thoughts, and that's helping a little. I'm struggling with how I should engage them more and I'm definitely thinking of doing some Lives and making some short vids and posting that in my Stories.
Thanks I'm still new to photography trying to get better. My Instagram is a struggle.
this sounds great and all but the moral of the story is "your pictures wont make you popular but your popularity will. that or suggestive pictures of women"
So true. Good to see someone else finally adress that :) thanks
Unless your are a business, I would put your efforts into a platform other than Instagram. It’s a terrible platform for artists. No organic growth. Features nobody really wants and no support.
Very true,but Instagram has monopolized the platform, for the time being at least.
@@KBRC81 Perhaps not. Serious artists have other venues for displaying their art. Instagram is for publicity hounds, not serious artists.
@@TexasPelican That sounds a bit silly. I am neither a publicity hound, and I’m not a serious artist. I enjoy photography as a hobby, something to learn and have fun with. I use Instagram as a tool to share some of my photos, see others photos, and have some sort of path to network with people that have similar interests.
What are these other venues for serious artists?
@@KBRC81 My bad, didn't mean to imply you personally. I should have phrased that more abstractly. Serious artists use venues like 500px or DeviantArt. I think there are some others but like you, I'm a hobbyist.
@@TexasPelican Oh no worries. I didn't think you were aiming that at me. I was just using myself as an example lol. 👍🏻
always inspiring stuff. thanks for the wisdom.
Hey Ted! Interesting thoughts on IG. Should a photographer post works that are a part of a project on IG as they go along? Why or why not? I've heard the argument that all you're doing is diluting the potential interest in the final project. On the other hand in light of IG's dominance in social media, do photographers (especially unknown ones) do themselves a disservice by NOT posting to the platform? Thanks!
I like that screensaver ! Where did you get/find it?
Lots of great points and truths in this video. You actually got me to reflect on my Instagram motivations.
I set myself the goal of consistently sharing the most boring, deadpan images that nobody would want to see. It's been working out well so far.
And @vuhlandes made a video about ‚Don‘t let social media affect your photography‘
It‘s always a matter of perspective, right ?
Very good points 👍
The key to growing a channel on Instagram is to be a female hardbody who does daily naked yoga from exotic locations all over the world while convincing us this is absolutely normal 😆
Fake Famous on HBO is entertaining.
I think you have to be good and unique, but I think people also really want some kind of theme in your photos that they can look forward to. Probably some dopamine release thing or something.
Thank you so much for this video I shall start implementing these things. I subbed :)
The only way to know if you are delivering work people want to see is to get it in front of them too see in the first place. The way Instagram works, this simply doesn't happen. People are not seeing the work. When I look at instagrammers with large followings, a lot of them do not have great work, most are barely passable in fact. Yet, they get thousands of likes, this of course is because they already have a large following (usually because of the old algorithms) - example you have 10k followers, if only 10% like something that is still 1000 likes.
Now I don't claim to know how Instagram works on an engineering level (few do, literally this is their secret sauce) but I do know two things. 1. RUclips promotes CNN videos even though if you look at the likes vs dislikes, their videos get significantly more dislikes than likes. One would think this would push their videos down in the list (it absolutely would if it was your or my videos), yet we see this is not the case with CNN and they are not the only accounts that this is evident. 2. Facebook (owns Instagram) my facebook page used to be much larger around 600 followers. When I started my page years ago, it would be shown to hundreds of people. Now 15 people see it......................if I want more, I have to boo$t the post. you can't build an audience when only 15 people are seeing your work. Contrast this with just posting to a group or my personal account, I get 100's of views and likes.
Cold hard math would suggest that if you were big a few years ago with the old algorithms, you will remain big. New people will not unless they pay to have their work seen. This is why Flickr is superior to Instagram. It's still merit based. if you're good, people will follow / see..........sincerely ........and not the like for like bs on insta.
One thing I'm wrestling with on IG is how many photos to share per day. I've historically only done one per day, but my bank of yet-to-share images is getting so large that I could sell all my camera gear and keep posting for a few years! My fear is that my content would just get diluted by posting 3 per day, yet I've heard some people say that 3 per day is about right. Any thoughts on that?
There are ads on Instagram?
Thanks for the info
Great video Ted!
Now I want a cocktail.
So much for my photographers career
"want to look at", how true. Cliche photos get old. For example, a profile of an animal just sitting there. You may like yours, and it may look great, but its been done a million times, especially these days.
Makes sense, great vid
The trick would be to target people who want to buy prints.
I always asked myself, "do print buyers browse on Instagram?"
I'm never one for likes, I shoot for myself, no one else. However, I have 1,500 followers gained organically, I hashtag my landscape shots with the 25 most popular relevant hashtags. Sometimes my reach is 200 people, the next post reaches 700, the next back to 200. Its bullsh*t.
There you have it folks. Size does not matter.
Great video as always!
Thank you
I have come to learn master of B and W photography.
It depends on what kind of photos you share I assume. Sexy shots always get more and faster likes than others. But they are only for a moment, nothing that stays in your mind like a nice landscape photo or anything like this.
I agree making interesting content is a good way to get more followers.
Why? I got instagram, have some followers, then what? Well I photograph at first only for my self and learning to find something to hang on the wall. But followers, do not really need it. Would rather have the comments and discussions.
Instagram, a phone swiping bit of nonsense where you squink to look at images - hatred starts right there.
The only people that care about process are other creators. In the real world, no one cares about what camera, what settings etc. Most of the images on Instagram that claim to be photos are actually composited digital art pieces. no one cares (they should because this is disingenuous at best forgery at worst). Showing process is fine *IF* you want to be an educator (which honestly seems like the only way to make money on social media these days) I think anyone who is overly concerned with sharing work should watch a few Daniel Milnor videos to get your photographic head on straight.
i got 77 followers on IG in a year... 2/3rd are people I know..
Do you want followers other than by those you are close to and want to share experience with? or are you in a business that requires followers for to attract customers? or something else.
This makes sense as far as what to include with the photos to make them more personal. I know someone that includes a backstory for each post and I’ll start doing that too.
With social media, you-are-the-product. You give the site your work for FREE, and the sell it for a profit. In other words you are a Digital Sharecropper. My question is why do you think that you need to give away content?
The only way to win at Instagram is to not play. Awful platform for photogs creating work that's intended for people to look at it. If you want to just make 1sec eye buzz, insta is perfect. If you want an audience that looks and even immerses themselves in your work, Insta is the antithesis to that. It's awful. Not to mention that the algorithm and even the engagement suppresses creativity. You start creating for likes, looking at whats popular and copying, all of it is awful for creativity.
I don't want to be famous. I want to sell photos but I don't want to be famous - because that seems like a pain in the behind. Any tips on selling one's work in a way that generates passive income? Like licensing to magazines and etc - where one's name won't be bandied about - for the recluses among us?
People follow people on instagram not photography. Whether a celebrity or someone popular is a better fit to grow an account.
It's stupid. They want you to pay! The hashtags method is dead. It's whom ever is more popular gets promoted for exposure because everyone wants to see them. There is too many people with sub-par content; so to maintain they only publish or show you the best which is through followers and likes as judgement. That's why those IG accounts that isn't individual serves the best.
The algorithm isn’t any good anymore
Instagram is so boring. Let’s all move on.
Try Vero maybe
Love your perspective and educator's heart. May I suggest ironing light colored shirts before filming? Linen is tough, but still...