Nah it will. It will even free the billionaires from themselves. The guy they're talking to in this video has absolutely no idea what he's talking about or what he's saying.
The decision-makers in our economy are the same people who are convinced that immigrants are a drain on the economy, when they're our backbone. Most wealthy people in this country have bought into the idea that they achieved it all themselves, and most of them are racist.
@@markzuckergecko621 that is an overstatement. I know you want to pretend that there were never European boots on the ground raiding villages but that would definitely be a bald face lie.
This guy is right on with this story, I worked in legal IT for 45 years and this company called SAP wanted to create a legal module for their enterprise system so they paid my company to allow them to steal my propriety information created for the company. Ultimately they were to deploy their system but that system turned out to be humans in the Philippines.
Same in the Accounting biz. Will advertise as fully automated bookkeeping, but so much if the categorizing still requires critical thinking that AI can't duplicate. The work is actually being done by cheap labor oversees.
The classic "Mechanical Turk": the "automated system" requires a great deal of human processing to function at even a rudimentary level. So much of AI adoption has been essentially firing half the skilled workers & then rehiring them as unskilled labor, temporary workers, or independent contractors.
That's exactly what's happening. They can't just release a new product. It has to be "life changing AI next gen never before seen technology." Nobody would give a shit if they just said "Check out our latest digital assistant, Chatgpt."
“Sales” isn’t a sector. It’s a process. Tech involves selling things that don’t exist and may not have a real function. Its the ultimate playground for snake oil salesman
For marketers, AI is the new "gamer RGB lighting" of electronic devices. They've already got expos advertising things like "AI-powered keyboards" because the magic and mystery behind machine learning is a selling point that lets them bump up the prices.
I have worked for many of the Silicon Valley companies. The top ones. They are mostly held together by contractors, freelancers, vendors and outsourcing. Everything is a facade. Its pretty remarkable how things stay operational. I guess that’s how most institutions are in this country. Don’t believe in the hype.
I worked as a content moderator for online games, thanks for covering how the companies are at odds with the ppl trying to moderate the sites and why. I wish you guys could find out about what happened to the Facebook Moderator union attempts and the various attempts of gaslighting of what really goes on.
@@down-to-earth-mystery-schoolyeah I was an independent contractor myself and I have been diagnosed with PTSD from what I dealt with. It’s kind of a 6 hour rant of how terrible it really is in the game/social media industry. Nameless to say I became a Bernie bro real fast Lol
I was immediately brought to mind of Monticello. Thomas Jefferson's house. He had built in a bunch of structural things that allowed his slaves to make things happen behind the scenes that looked super high tech and almost magical. Functionally a smart house powered by slaves. This "AI" shit is exactly the same thing.
@@UlshaRS💯 this! What blows my mind is that folks see the wizard is a man pulling levers and still pretend like it's the floating head that's in power. They're paying no attention to the man behind the curtain even though it's completely pulled back.
Look, AI is not going to take humans out of the pipeline (literally "replacing workers"), we need to stop thinking of it that way. There will always be a need for a skilled worker to verify the results. However, if 1 AI-assisted worker can be as productive as 10 normal workers, then AI has just "replaced" 90% of the workforce. As for the "training" that they're talking about in this video, that creates a huge number of very short-term unskilled jobs that don't need to be repeated. It's mostly just labeling the data and it's incredibly tedious. The actual training is done by people with graduate degrees. If you want a real horror story about AI outsourcing, look up OpenAI's Kenya contract that was canceled by the contractor because it was inflicting too much psychological damage on the workers.
I work in the nautical industry and this is true for all the offshore navigating apps. People think the maps magically show the world as it is, digitally, BUT navionics etc literally (under)pay people in the Philippines to hand scan paper charts. This not only means there's no "magic technology" behind the app, but also that there is human error in the digitised chart (map) as in a section that contains a rock or channel marker can easily be missed which then has very real physical consequences for navigation.
I worked for a direct marketing company with a few thousand employees. Eventually they outsourced most the jobs to the Philippines. I remember talking to them and was surprised most of them sleep on site on bunk bed style cots and yes they were getting paid cents on the dollar compared to us.
Sometimes when you call support in the Philipines/Indonesia/Vietnam, you get to speak to a really well educated person in English, while you hear the chickens on the phone in the background. 🙂
No social media company should be legally permitted to grow further than their content moderation capabilities can keep users safe. Our rights and safety are more important than rapid irresponsible expanion without considering consequences.
That's what I keep saying. Their stupid "We're too big for this to work" excuse just means that they never should've/would've grown to that size with proper laws/regulations in place, and should be split up
Isn't there historical precedence for rich folks in the past using basically slaves/servants to transport food and stuff in order to impress guests and make it look like they had some automated food delivery system in their homes??
Sort of. The idea wasn't to fool people into believing there was automated food delivery - no-one was going to fall for that. It was because social codes determined that serving staff should be as invisible as possible. If space permitted they would have their own narrow stairways and passages in a house. The perfect servant should never across paths with their master unless called upon. This is why many old houses have what we would see as "secret passages" and concealed doors. They weren't secret, they were for the staff.
The reason Uber can’t make money is the same for the music business. Thanks to amazing science and tech the cost of creation of a song or a web service goes to 0. Machines were meant to save us from shitty labor not constantly create money schemes
Regarding distributing apparently mechanized work to actual people, Amazon had a service as part of AWS (cloud services) called “Mechanical Turk” which was explicitly designed to provide a way for companies to distribute work to actual human agents. Amazon provided the platform and the agents. Developers simply defined the work products and sent them to the service to be handled, then processed the results of the human work. I thought it was a pretty interesting/cool idea for certain types of processing, but could most definitely see the dark side, as well. Note: The name of the service was based on an old (Victorian era?) chess-playing “automaton” ruse which actually hid a human player.
I worked Ubereats for 3 years before the pandemic. Our pay kept get so low that it was pointless to work for them anymore. In Toronto, there's been a clear explosion of Indian workers who are the only ones desperate enough to do that job. These companies are wild.
These digital sweatshops are well-known in the field of digital labour research. Good to have some attention from journalists on this topic. These tasks that AMT, Toloka etc pay people on the internet do can be really weird.
Its like those amazon stores where the "algorithm" determined what you bought and charged you automatically. It turns out it was just low wage employees in india watching the cameras.
A big misconception people have with AI from a copyright or personal info/likeness perspective is thinking that copyright laws will save you. I don’t see how this tech will ever be outlawed wholesale or something so the biggest thing is going to corporate consolidation being more dangerous. Maybe a celeb can pursue litigation on their likeness or art but good luck proving Microsoft or Google scraped your photos or art and is using them. Its going to really harm the ability for non-massive conglomerates to compete in any field. Not saying everyone should have access or something but these corporations need to be broken up to combat this imo.
They outsource data labeling jobs. Secretly having someone give a manual response to quarries quickly would be astronomically more difficult & expensive to implement, operate, & maintain (even with low cost labor) than just implementing a machine learning model. The people who think that there are some real people secretly larping as gpt & responding to chats from across the world don't understand any of this shit. Labeled datasets are necessary to develop machine learning models with "supervised learning." A lot of that is pretty much like filling out a captcha; stuff like "what's in this image" or "which of these summaries of a paragraph/image is accurate?" You don't need software devs for that part in most cases. People should be paid more for it, but the data science isn't some smoke & mirrors or sci-fi bs; it's just linear algebra, statistics, & calculus.
On Facebook, I get "content", 90% of it is not from friends. People have shut up and don't argue and they post less. Social Media is an old idea at 20years. It now consists mostly of posts by professional content developers and advertisers looking for a click. If I scroll enough I'll see my friends cat.
@@adielwilson8749 Neither in Europe. I miscalculted (that's onlu 22k Euros not 32k. You could live on 32k euro in Western Europe. Poorly, but it can be done after taxes. Provided you get the social benefits)
You missed the story then. AI needs data to be trained, and cheap labor training the data. It’s that simple. Would you site 8 hours a day for 3 bucks an hour sorting data?
@@rw7717 - Yes and no. Some LLMs need to be groomed and the AI built on it trained as the panelists say. But other AI is being built on LLMs that are already groomed to very specific use cases and don't require cheap labor to train them. Indeed, many AI platforms have recursive learning capabilities derived directly from machine learning that allow them to refine themselves based on a set of established criteria.
@@Yocambio you still need a global model. It’s fine it your model learns in house, but the data will never be sufficient for the real world. Look up Scale AI. It’s the biggest data provider in the world. Based in the valley, data provided by cheap labor.
Going through similar things at VSP vision. Just rolled out AI. I knew downsizing was going to happen and sure enough it did. Closed all of the labs and call centers within a year or so of rollout, gave the perception to employees and the practices this was not going to happen. I will be out of my job in beginning October and hearing a lot of your discussion ring true in conversations from the optician practices who are irritated and feeling deceived. I’m left to field questions about why I have been downsized and out of a job. Feel like I’ve been left holding the bag.
These are great ideas but it seems like no matter what the original intention of any idea is, in the end, it always gets corrupted because greedy a-holes have all the power and money.
it already is. the thing about companies using it like this is that all that bad data they've been feeding into their systems that large portions of their workforce have to work around or translate into usable information is gonna start piling up errors that will create larger and larger problems. it might also reveal a lot of Creative Accounting that has been occurring, but at this point, everything might be a complete house of cards.
No bailout, they already make billions, AI bullshit wont hurt their bottom line enough for that. But it will destroy the stock prices for a while when they finally admit it’s unprofitable bullshit.
"A very small fraction of people .... who really stand to benefit at all..." yes, we know, it's called late stage capitalism and it is (nearly) every single one of these entities.
yes. I just came across this: "“The firms that have gone public since 2000 rarely create employment at a large scale; the median firm to IPO after 2000 created just 51 jobs globally.” “In 2015,” Davis writes, “the combined workforces of Facebook, Yelp, Zynga, LinkedIn, Zillow, Tableau, Zulily and Box were smaller than the number of people who lost their jobs when Circuit City was liquidated in 2009.” ( Hedge funds won't hire more workers, why give them tax cuts?!) anyways, Cheers!
Yup. Money isn't the only driver. Trust is a major factor; these people don't trust anything that they can't control completely. They'd prefer not to depend on people at all.
Current, "AI", isn't AI. It's just machine learning. Machine learning isn't AI. Not even with LLM's. It's just, again, machine learning. This will one day, hopefully, turn into AI, but it's not AI, currently. It's just a marketing gimmick.
I agree with you, but unfortunately this is just the common parlance. Hell even before this new wave of transformer-based models, things like computer-controlled opponents in video games are called "AI", and most of those are just using basic decision trees, not even any machine learning algorithms.
I worked at a place called "Interactions" over 10 years ago, I was "helping" avr menus get callers to the place they needed to be.If the AI didn't understand them they played a quick recording for me and I had to decipher the context of it and click on a menu to move them where they needed to be. It was kind of funny sometimes you would hear people yelling at their family.
@@pgabrieli Yes. Congratulations. You're working on something that ultimately won't work as advertised. Sorry to break the news to you. Happy you're getting paid for it though.
A real conversation: Investor: "Have you seen AI? One day we won't even need to hire actors or writers for commercials." Me, a writer: "Ha ha. That sure sounds great." 😰 People have no idea the wave of unemployment that is coming to our shores. Tech bros and stock investors are salivating at the cost reduction AI can provide. If it can produce something "just good enough", it's over.
Funny enough this issue of higher ups constantly changing things that don't need changing bleeds into retail too. I work at a "non-profit" retail outlet that rhymes with hoodbill and the higher ups are always changing ways we are supposed to price things. And soon there will be a change that further scrutinizes and micromanages the pricing process. All Corporate higher ups have this issue of trying to make more and more, even in settings that it makes no sense to.
I'm trying to learn about starting a non-profit co-op offering a public service, not a product. Instead of chasing a "market" I want to build to meet material needs where I'm at - but for it to remain stable there needs to be a good framework for the organization and that feels daunting.
Many have paved the way that you can learn from. Also, I'm most motivated about the rare legal formation of L3C (type of LLC) instead of the easiest way ( just ordinary LLC). I think there's still room to come up with much better structures to support what people want to be involved in.
Just raise corporate income tax. A progressive corporate tax wouldn't work. The creation of shell companies is already rampant enough as is. Progressive personal income taxes work because you can't split a person up into multiple pieces.
@@TheReddaredevil223 You would need (and hell, we already need) certain defenses against shells, implicitly, as part of this policy. A big one is what is the minute details of the taxable basis for revenue, profit, and loss; with minimum corporate income taxes already thrown up into the discourse this Presidential campaign, this is clearly no longer a sacrosanct foundation of neoliberalism. A company will want to offset profits in one division with losses in another, and I'd imagine this would favor centralization of concerns rather than balkanization.
@@TrogdorBurnin8or You can always just say "Defense against shells" without having a feasible policy on how to actually regulate that. You probably end up creating a disaster. There's so many loopholes upon loopholes you haven't thought of, I'm afraid. What's the argument against simply raising the corporate tax rate? I don't get it at all.
@@TheReddaredevil223 I am generally dissatisfied with the status quo where we collect 1.6% of GDP and 6.5% of total tax from corporations. I suspect that these taxes may be some of the least effective of all relative to nominal rates, and are complicated not only by being assessed against a highly manipulable net, and not only the focus of an intense accounting effort, but by being subject to so many arbitrary policy-by-taxcode deductions that they essentially purchase in campaign contributions with little fanfare, or which are created out of whole cloth in IRS internal rulemaking. I don't have a firm idea of a perfect system, but even before Trump's intervention things were generally awful. It would be nice to figure out some much simpler implementation, like "no corporate taxes, but capital gains are now 30%". I'm no expert. But the abiding pressure towards anticompetitive M&A activity does need some kind of pushback in some area of policy, and If some minimum corporate tax is on the table then so are progressive corporate taxes. It would be nice to provide that counter pressure in a natural incentive rather than via the threat of a case by case basis prosecution for alleged anticompetitive abuses.
Some AI is trained in the way they claim, but the issue in the case they're focusing on involves a company that couldn't be bothered to develop their AI platform patiently, using solid engineering practices. They were trying to get to their liquidity event before anyone looked behind the curtain to see what they were up to. Think Theranos, for example.
@fluxonite it's going to slowly shift and get worse. My personal job feels pretty secure, for the few years I have left ahead before retirement, also we are one of the few studios left who hand-draw. Unfortunately CGI is being hit the hardest and I feel the pain of the younger generations. I am not at all "against tech"... I am against "greedy humans", who just look at the bottom line. I don't think I can post a link in a comment, but you can look up this article in Cartoon Brew, by title searching : Lionsgate Signs Deal With AI Company Runway, Hopes That AI Can Eliminate Storyboard Artists and VFX Crews
Yanis Varoufakis refers to this as Techno-Feudalism. The business model is to lure people onto digital fiefdoms (e.g. Amazon, Facebook, Adobe, etc.) then, when they're dependent on the fiefdom, extract rents. Hence, "enshittification."
@@davidradtke160 idk man, the size of the bubble and the size of the crash are not necessarily the same thing. The 2007/2008 crash was exceptionally large because of the nature of the assets in jeopardy and the sheer lack of liquidity in the market at that time. Nobody could buy and everybody HAD to sell = huge crash. Right now there is a lot of liquidity and interest rates just lowered so honestly the sheer size of this bubble is unprecedented. However, probably won’t crash as dramatically because liquidity isn’t that tight and the assets are mostly speculative, not finite. The bubble is mostly contained within the markets, therefore less dramatic consequences
The outsourcing company or the call center company will attract clients and making unrealistic promises of fast efficient customer service handling. But customers fight for their rights and the Filipino CSR will protect the company against the customer.
Uber shouldn’t even be allowed to exist! Driving with customers should require a license, and everyone doing such work should be organized. Those owning cars in cooperatives that run central, and those employed in workers unions….
As a tech professional, I feel this is an irrelevant story. Sure he studied ONE company who's NOT actually using machine learning. This doesn't speak to the larger actual issue of who's data is training the machine model. Is it really news that the coding is offshored, that workers aren't paid fairly?
The outsourcing isn't really the coding. It's the classification. Basically the people looking at pictures and saying what is in thr picture. The coding is being done at the companies and now by ai for the easy stuff.
The damage that investor culture is doing to workers is the main story here, and much bigger than just AI, so you might want to pay attention to what they are saying.
LLMs are a moderation system. You might get the chance to either provide answers or judge the quality of the answers. Some forums like Slashdot have had similar systems for years that used basic probabilities for similar approaches rather than a neural network. I think statistical learning is a slightly less heated promise than calling what we have AI.
More venture capitalism is not the answer. Please review what the question is. We are being bled dry. Private equity is fighting over who extracts my last penny. Silicon valley is just a scam. Maybe it was a valuable at one time but it's all about hype now. Waiting for RUclips to be replaced by a better product
Payment in the Philippines for even degreed individuals is very low. What you will probably find is that these people hired to do low-end work are only too happy to have a job and get paid. Also - I have been an investor and entrepreneur for more than 30 years. I have found that a significant percentage of investors (and shareholders) are not good at calculating the potential viability of a given business concept. Uber is not a good business model (overall), but there will always be investors who are unable to figure that.
If you remove all the workers in the world from the workplace, and make all the widgets and services auto-magically, who is going to by the products coming off the assembly lines, and use the services that are available?
there are niches where this is true however the major AI uses are impossible because when I use AI to help with coding Applications it is impossible for a low paid worker in the Philippines to understand what I am asking and to provide the code for a very complex task with algorithms and packages and their complex interdependence within less than 3 seconds like AI does for me.
This is a tale as old as CAPITALISM. The owning class don't want to pay for your labour, BUT want to extract as much value they can from you. Whether that's "wage slavery" in "off-shore" manufacturing and customer-service in Mexico, Philippines, India and China, or just regular slavery in "off-shore" mining in DRC, Sudan, Papua New Guinea and Tigray.
There are several sites that hire contractors to train AI now. They hire in the US too, but they often pay less to other countries. I realize thats different than just having contractors in the moment, but either way, it's shitty contract work with no benefits.
what’s factually happening is the copycat apps are doing it more. is an entire industry of theft. for the record, ub’r cheated me so badly i ended up homeless.
Long time fan of the channel, but it's really disappointing to see this covered like AI is a monolith and that no effort was made to distinguish what specific types of services were doing this. Not all AI works like what is described here, and some of the most notable products and services do not use humans for the actual product. Also, not all AI training is done with low wage labor, and this guest talked about it like this made up the entire training. It's akin to misinformation sharing this without the actual nuances of how these institutions build and run these products. I work in the ML industry and find how this was represented, especially with the title, was really disingenuous.
@JoeDiMaggio-fu8ld for real, I really expect more nuance from the team here, and to see them just accept the guests' information at face value is a real drag.
Public banking with housing and technology loan where the city/ county/ state get's a percentage of profits in the general fund restricted to paying for municipal labor and infrastructure.
Unfortunately these alternate model being suggested would have to be legislated by politicians who would squash it w/ their VC money ..besides the following 5 entities are under the control of the financial elite : Finance. Science / tech Resources Military. & Information/ data
This is all about pre-market share. Uber knows there will be a robotaxi service in the future, so by emulating that service with human hamsters they are hoping to dominate the hypothetical future market. But today? There is no way to lipstick the pigs. Either keep subsidizing or actually build the product before jumping in
Reminder that the AI utopia is not to free us from the need to labor, it's to free billionaires from the need for labor.
100%
Too damn true
The need to pay for labor, fixed for you
Nah it will. It will even free the billionaires from themselves. The guy they're talking to in this video has absolutely no idea what he's talking about or what he's saying.
Explain the difference.
Filipino with outsourcing experience here. American clients are the worst low-ballers. The pay is abysmal.
The decision-makers in our economy are the same people who are convinced that immigrants are a drain on the economy, when they're our backbone. Most wealthy people in this country have bought into the idea that they achieved it all themselves, and most of them are racist.
I guess you don't deal with Indians... Probably because they're busy with Americans low balling them too 😂
Don't take the job if it's not worth it.
@@davidfaustino4476 I only did it to save up money to finish my 1st degree.
@@Artemis.94 oh no, people trying to pay the least they can for a product. Those monsters.
Anytime a company says they are looking to hire "team members" or to "join our family" you should beware. They really mean you are expendable.
Centuries ago they would never advertise. They would capture my people from abroad and chain us up into forced labor for these same roles.
Yes, everyone is expendable. This isn't new. You aren't entitled to a job just because you want money, you have to earn your position and keep it.
@@fleetadmiralsidiqi1941your people sold each other.
@@markzuckergecko621 that is an overstatement. I know you want to pretend that there were never European boots on the ground raiding villages but that would definitely be a bald face lie.
@@fleetadmiralsidiqi19411.5 million Christians of European descent were enslaved by Muslim rulers. It's the reason the US attacked Tripoli
Wait? It was capitalism the whole time?!
😂😂
Capitalism is on caps lock bro, it's like locked in... 😮😢😂
This guy is right on with this story, I worked in legal IT for 45 years and this company called SAP wanted to create a legal module for their enterprise system so they paid my company to allow them to steal my propriety information created for the company. Ultimately they were to deploy their system but that system turned out to be humans in the Philippines.
worrying how much of the big shiny tech solutions just boil down to new methods of involving sweatshops
@@cloudycolacorp
Innovative ways...to exploit the global south
Same in the Accounting biz. Will advertise as fully automated bookkeeping, but so much if the categorizing still requires critical thinking that AI can't duplicate. The work is actually being done by cheap labor oversees.
didnt know i needed another reason to hate SAP
@@fmleverynameistakenx I know I have mine!
The classic "Mechanical Turk": the "automated system" requires a great deal of human processing to function at even a rudimentary level. So much of AI adoption has been essentially firing half the skilled workers & then rehiring them as unskilled labor, temporary workers, or independent contractors.
Well put
Sounds like Steampunk mashed up with Oliver Twist.
Excuse to lay off without hurting the stock price
Is it just me or is tech a lot like sales? They have to keep coming up with new things to sale and AI is just the newest thing.
That's exactly what's happening. They can't just release a new product. It has to be "life changing AI next gen never before seen technology." Nobody would give a shit if they just said "Check out our latest digital assistant, Chatgpt."
That’s a chicken versus egg observation though.
“Sales” isn’t a sector. It’s a process. Tech involves selling things that don’t exist and may not have a real function. Its the ultimate playground for snake oil salesman
For marketers, AI is the new "gamer RGB lighting" of electronic devices. They've already got expos advertising things like "AI-powered keyboards" because the magic and mystery behind machine learning is a selling point that lets them bump up the prices.
They spent too much on making people want the next new thing and now they struggle to innovate while somehow their products get more expensive.
I have worked for many of the Silicon Valley companies. The top ones. They are mostly held together by contractors, freelancers, vendors and outsourcing. Everything is a facade. Its pretty remarkable how things stay operational. I guess that’s how most institutions are in this country. Don’t believe in the hype.
Well said. Thanks for sharing.
That's genuinely very helpful. Thank you for sharing! /Gen
I worked as a content moderator for online games, thanks for covering how the companies are at odds with the ppl trying to moderate the sites and why. I wish you guys could find out about what happened to the Facebook Moderator union attempts and the various attempts of gaslighting of what really goes on.
I read that some of the things the moderators have to look at, is deeply traumatizing, and yet no mental health support for these ‘contractors’
@@down-to-earth-mystery-schoolyeah I was an independent contractor myself and I have been diagnosed with PTSD from what I dealt with. It’s kind of a 6 hour rant of how terrible it really is in the game/social media industry. Nameless to say I became a Bernie bro real fast Lol
"Alright gang, let's unmask this creepy AI... why, it was Old Man Labour Exploitation all along!"
No one is old enough to get your joke Scoob! Zoikes!!😊
Besides me…. 😢
@@tomgears6508What do you mean? Scooby Doo is still fairly popular and new media being made.
I got it…
Shut it. We ain't dead yet.😂
I was immediately brought to mind of Monticello. Thomas Jefferson's house. He had built in a bunch of structural things that allowed his slaves to make things happen behind the scenes that looked super high tech and almost magical. Functionally a smart house powered by slaves. This "AI" shit is exactly the same thing.
The most money was in production of nails!
Made by children.
What a horror...
Pay no attention to indenture wage slave behind the curtain ~The Great and Powerful Oz
@@UlshaRS💯 this! What blows my mind is that folks see the wizard is a man pulling levers and still pretend like it's the floating head that's in power. They're paying no attention to the man behind the curtain even though it's completely pulled back.
So AI is not taking jobs it's just outsourcing
AI = An Indian
always has been XD
it's definitely a combo of both
Look, AI is not going to take humans out of the pipeline (literally "replacing workers"), we need to stop thinking of it that way. There will always be a need for a skilled worker to verify the results. However, if 1 AI-assisted worker can be as productive as 10 normal workers, then AI has just "replaced" 90% of the workforce.
As for the "training" that they're talking about in this video, that creates a huge number of very short-term unskilled jobs that don't need to be repeated. It's mostly just labeling the data and it's incredibly tedious. The actual training is done by people with graduate degrees.
If you want a real horror story about AI outsourcing, look up OpenAI's Kenya contract that was canceled by the contractor because it was inflicting too much psychological damage on the workers.
It's like Elmo's robot just being a dude in a suit.
I work in the nautical industry and this is true for all the offshore navigating apps.
People think the maps magically show the world as it is, digitally, BUT navionics etc literally (under)pay people in the Philippines to hand scan paper charts.
This not only means there's no "magic technology" behind the app, but also that there is human error in the digitised chart (map) as in a section that contains a rock or channel marker can easily be missed which then has very real physical consequences for navigation.
Yep. Just like my google maps says it was a road and almost got me plunged into rice paddy fields at 10 pm. Noice.
I worked for a direct marketing company with a few thousand employees. Eventually they outsourced most the jobs to the Philippines. I remember talking to them and was surprised most of them sleep on site on bunk bed style cots and yes they were getting paid cents on the dollar compared to us.
There's even worse, like enslaved call center labour in a Chinese concession in Laos who are pressed into online love scams among others.
Sometimes when you call support in the Philipines/Indonesia/Vietnam, you get to speak to a really well educated person in English, while you hear the chickens on the phone in the background. 🙂
No social media company should be legally permitted to grow further than their content moderation capabilities can keep users safe. Our rights and safety are more important than rapid irresponsible expanion without considering consequences.
That's what I keep saying. Their stupid "We're too big for this to work" excuse just means that they never should've/would've grown to that size with proper laws/regulations in place, and should be split up
You can thank unchecked capitalism and corporate welfare. It's all about increasing shareholder value, everything else is secondary or "communism"
More to the point, these human robots don't understand the context of remarks. Quite unethical of them
So the Great Wizard Zucher behind the curtain is just a minimum wage Filipino.
Filipinos are masters of staying low profile and hustling.
Isn't there historical precedence for rich folks in the past using basically slaves/servants to transport food and stuff in order to impress guests and make it look like they had some automated food delivery system in their homes??
Ah yes...!
Jefferson *cough*
Sort of. The idea wasn't to fool people into believing there was automated food delivery - no-one was going to fall for that. It was because social codes determined that serving staff should be as invisible as possible. If space permitted they would have their own narrow stairways and passages in a house. The perfect servant should never across paths with their master unless called upon. This is why many old houses have what we would see as "secret passages" and concealed doors. They weren't secret, they were for the staff.
I live in Mexico and work training AI. My salary is about 2.5 USD per hour.
Is that even the legal minimum wage in Mexico? I knew this had to be built on business practices that are borderline slavery.
Hey look at the bright side. It could be 1.0 USD per hour in the Philippines
I wish I made that much down there when I was a teacher only making $1 an hour
Man I hope your rent is like $200/month in USD, otherwise that's crazy.
@@WaxPaper for me a 3 bedroom house was $115 a month with water
The reason Uber can’t make money is the same for the music business. Thanks to amazing science and tech the cost of creation of a song or a web service goes to 0. Machines were meant to save us from shitty labor not constantly create money schemes
Remember Amazons “Just Walk Out” Grocery store app had used roughly 1,000 humans in India who actually did the work Amazon claimed their app did ?
Regarding distributing apparently mechanized work to actual people, Amazon had a service as part of AWS (cloud services) called “Mechanical Turk” which was explicitly designed to provide a way for companies to distribute work to actual human agents. Amazon provided the platform and the agents. Developers simply defined the work products and sent them to the service to be handled, then processed the results of the human work.
I thought it was a pretty interesting/cool idea for certain types of processing, but could most definitely see the dark side, as well.
Note: The name of the service was based on an old (Victorian era?) chess-playing “automaton” ruse which actually hid a human player.
I worked Ubereats for 3 years before the pandemic. Our pay kept get so low that it was pointless to work for them anymore. In Toronto, there's been a clear explosion of Indian workers who are the only ones desperate enough to do that job. These companies are wild.
Enshittification at work.
These digital sweatshops are well-known in the field of digital labour research. Good to have some attention from journalists on this topic. These tasks that AMT, Toloka etc pay people on the internet do can be really weird.
Its like those amazon stores where the "algorithm" determined what you bought and charged you automatically. It turns out it was just low wage employees in india watching the cameras.
And if a customer picked up an item and set it down somewhere else in the store, the system crashed. Children had to be banned.
I really hate getting 4 minutes into the video, before it hits me - i heard this yesterday in the original video
You sneaks, you got one more view outta me!! I'm not gonna take this crap much longer! 🤣
@@doctorbigsmiles my mother is my sister
@@Dante3214 i know they both licked my ball sacc
They kind of do need to cut up their long form content into slightly more digestable videos with focused titles though.
A big misconception people have with AI from a copyright or personal info/likeness perspective is thinking that copyright laws will save you. I don’t see how this tech will ever be outlawed wholesale or something so the biggest thing is going to corporate consolidation being more dangerous. Maybe a celeb can pursue litigation on their likeness or art but good luck proving Microsoft or Google scraped your photos or art and is using them. Its going to really harm the ability for non-massive conglomerates to compete in any field. Not saying everyone should have access or something but these corporations need to be broken up to combat this imo.
They outsource data labeling jobs. Secretly having someone give a manual response to quarries quickly would be astronomically more difficult & expensive to implement, operate, & maintain (even with low cost labor) than just implementing a machine learning model.
The people who think that there are some real people secretly larping as gpt & responding to chats from across the world don't understand any of this shit.
Labeled datasets are necessary to develop machine learning models with "supervised learning." A lot of that is pretty much like filling out a captcha; stuff like "what's in this image" or "which of these summaries of a paragraph/image is accurate?"
You don't need software devs for that part in most cases. People should be paid more for it, but the data science isn't some smoke & mirrors or sci-fi bs; it's just linear algebra, statistics, & calculus.
Exactly I think they are being used to train models
On Facebook, I get "content", 90% of it is not from friends. People have shut up and don't argue and they post less. Social Media is an old idea at 20years. It now consists mostly of posts by professional content developers and advertisers looking for a click. If I scroll enough I'll see my friends cat.
It's not just overseas. You can work from home as an AI "trainer" if you can live on 25k a year.
After taxes?
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan Not sure...I was rejected...there's a lot more info on Reddit
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan either way that's no a livable wage in America.
even my managers dont earn that much. Here, 3rd world country..
@@adielwilson8749 Neither in Europe. I miscalculted (that's onlu 22k Euros not 32k. You could live on 32k euro in Western Europe. Poorly, but it can be done after taxes. Provided you get the social benefits)
The story isn’t about AI being a scam, it is about a company scamming, pretending that they are in AI company.
You missed the story then. AI needs data to be trained, and cheap labor training the data. It’s that simple. Would you site 8 hours a day for 3 bucks an hour sorting data?
@@rw7717 - Yes and no. Some LLMs need to be groomed and the AI built on it trained as the panelists say. But other AI is being built on LLMs that are already groomed to very specific use cases and don't require cheap labor to train them. Indeed, many AI platforms have recursive learning capabilities derived directly from machine learning that allow them to refine themselves based on a set of established criteria.
@@Yocambio you still need a global model. It’s fine it your model learns in house, but the data will never be sufficient for the real world. Look up Scale AI. It’s the biggest data provider in the world. Based in the valley, data provided by cheap labor.
Thanks!
Going through similar things at VSP vision. Just rolled out AI. I knew downsizing was going to happen and sure enough it did. Closed all of the labs and call centers within a year or so of rollout, gave the perception to employees and the practices this was not going to happen. I will be out of my job in beginning October and hearing a lot of your discussion ring true in conversations from the optician practices who are irritated and feeling deceived. I’m left to field questions about why I have been downsized and out of a job. Feel like I’ve been left holding the bag.
I get the call centers…but how can they close labs?
This guy looks like if Sam and Kyle Kuliski had a son 😂
😂
I can't unsee it now, thanks mate
Okay good
Hey guys, ummmm
But why doesn t he have blonde/white strips of hair then
These are great ideas but it seems like no matter what the original intention of any idea is, in the end, it always gets corrupted because greedy a-holes have all the power and money.
Emma's comments are so bright.
I'm calling it now- AI is the next bubble and it's going to be tech giants asking for bailouts in a decade
Yep
it already is. the thing about companies using it like this is that all that bad data they've been feeding into their systems that large portions of their workforce have to work around or translate into usable information is gonna start piling up errors that will create larger and larger problems. it might also reveal a lot of Creative Accounting that has been occurring, but at this point, everything might be a complete house of cards.
I’d say less than a decade.
A decade? Try 18 months…
No bailout, they already make billions, AI bullshit wont hurt their bottom line enough for that. But it will destroy the stock prices for a while when they finally admit it’s unprofitable bullshit.
"A very small fraction of people .... who really stand to benefit at all..." yes, we know, it's called late stage capitalism and it is (nearly) every single one of these entities.
yes. I just came across this: "“The firms that have gone public since 2000 rarely create employment at a large scale; the median firm to IPO after 2000 created just 51 jobs globally.” “In 2015,” Davis writes, “the combined workforces of Facebook, Yelp, Zynga, LinkedIn, Zillow, Tableau, Zulily and Box were smaller than the number of people who lost their jobs when Circuit City was liquidated in 2009.” ( Hedge funds won't hire more workers, why give them tax cuts?!) anyways, Cheers!
big part of the world tried communism. the other part tried capitalism... both had their good run but crumbled in the end... whats next
@@letsRegulateSociopaths Real Marxists are fascists in 2024.
@@GNMbgHow about we try a midway point?
@@GNMbg what’s next is post labor and post scarcity economy. The rise of AI powered androids is coming quickly.
If AI will replace 1 worker, then it's worth it to the business class. Whether or not it works or not, doesn't matter.
Yup. Money isn't the only driver. Trust is a major factor; these people don't trust anything that they can't control completely. They'd prefer not to depend on people at all.
A lot of ppl think that a strong dollar means better imports. But it can also mean that labor gets imported
Current, "AI", isn't AI. It's just machine learning. Machine learning isn't AI. Not even with LLM's. It's just, again, machine learning. This will one day, hopefully, turn into AI, but it's not AI, currently. It's just a marketing gimmick.
You’re100% correct They needed something to boost stock prices. All of this was covered a while back with Amazon Go. You can barely call it news.
Yup, ChatGPT should be called an advanced artificial parrot…
Yeah its wild how carried away people are getting with things weve already had for years
I agree with you, but unfortunately this is just the common parlance. Hell even before this new wave of transformer-based models, things like computer-controlled opponents in video games are called "AI", and most of those are just using basic decision trees, not even any machine learning algorithms.
Precisely and to add we are not remotely close to actually achieving AI.
I worked at a place called "Interactions" over 10 years ago, I was "helping" avr menus get callers to the place they needed to be.If the AI didn't understand them they played a quick recording for me and I had to decipher the context of it and click on a menu to move them where they needed to be. It was kind of funny sometimes you would hear people yelling at their family.
if it was 10 years ago, it had nothing to do with the generative IA available today.
@@pgabrieliThe thing that isn't real?
@@MuShinnen what isn't real? the thing that I've been working on, and with, for over a year? 😂😂😂
@@pgabrieli Yes. Congratulations. You're working on something that ultimately won't work as advertised. Sorry to break the news to you. Happy you're getting paid for it though.
It's an overgrown function. Call it Generative if it makes you happy. @@pgabrieli
You should have Lily Irani on. She works in the unionization effort for Amazon turkers
A real conversation:
Investor: "Have you seen AI? One day we won't even need to hire actors or writers for commercials."
Me, a writer: "Ha ha. That sure sounds great." 😰
People have no idea the wave of unemployment that is coming to our shores. Tech bros and stock investors are salivating at the cost reduction AI can provide. If it can produce something "just good enough", it's over.
Don't act like there's a job for every wanna-be artist out there.
@@lococomrade3488 Did you think you had something here?
@@Dazen101 Yeah. More depth than a Luddite. 🤷🏻♂️
@@lococomrade3488Who do you think makes the data to train these?
@@kaelandin Apparently, Luddites.
Also: dead artists can also be found online. Weird, huh.
This is why when you say AI is stupid you're actually being racist against these hard workers overseas
Love the show. Left is best.
As an engineer who’s built AI on my own personal hardware, what kind of bs is this? 😂😂😂😂😂 there’s no hidden slave labor in my computer bro. 🗿
Well you missed the article about Scale AI. One of the biggest AI companies in the valley. You probably want to look it up.
@@rw7717 crazy story. Faking AI is a wild business idea. 😲
@@ThomasConover well, it’s not faking AI. You have to train it. Cheap labor provides millions of data points for AI.
Funny enough this issue of higher ups constantly changing things that don't need changing bleeds into retail too. I work at a "non-profit" retail outlet that rhymes with hoodbill and the higher ups are always changing ways we are supposed to price things. And soon there will be a change that further scrutinizes and micromanages the pricing process. All Corporate higher ups have this issue of trying to make more and more, even in settings that it makes no sense to.
Unfortunately that means there's stll lot more lot more room for development - but at gigantic cost in energy/ climate
I'm trying to learn about starting a non-profit co-op offering a public service, not a product. Instead of chasing a "market" I want to build to meet material needs where I'm at - but for it to remain stable there needs to be a good framework for the organization and that feels daunting.
@@sloanekuria3249 wait until you learn you have to earn money to keep a business in business.
Many have paved the way that you can learn from.
Also, I'm most motivated about the rare legal formation of L3C (type of LLC) instead of the easiest way ( just ordinary LLC).
I think there's still room to come up with much better structures to support what people want to be involved in.
That's called socialism, and if you try to build it the CIA will kill you.
Progressive corporate income tax, progressive private capital gains tax. There is little value to society in unregulated monopoly.
Just raise corporate income tax. A progressive corporate tax wouldn't work. The creation of shell companies is already rampant enough as is. Progressive personal income taxes work because you can't split a person up into multiple pieces.
@@TheReddaredevil223 You would need (and hell, we already need) certain defenses against shells, implicitly, as part of this policy. A big one is what is the minute details of the taxable basis for revenue, profit, and loss; with minimum corporate income taxes already thrown up into the discourse this Presidential campaign, this is clearly no longer a sacrosanct foundation of neoliberalism. A company will want to offset profits in one division with losses in another, and I'd imagine this would favor centralization of concerns rather than balkanization.
@@TrogdorBurnin8or You can always just say "Defense against shells" without having a feasible policy on how to actually regulate that. You probably end up creating a disaster. There's so many loopholes upon loopholes you haven't thought of, I'm afraid. What's the argument against simply raising the corporate tax rate? I don't get it at all.
@@TheReddaredevil223 I am generally dissatisfied with the status quo where we collect 1.6% of GDP and 6.5% of total tax from corporations. I suspect that these taxes may be some of the least effective of all relative to nominal rates, and are complicated not only by being assessed against a highly manipulable net, and not only the focus of an intense accounting effort, but by being subject to so many arbitrary policy-by-taxcode deductions that they essentially purchase in campaign contributions with little fanfare, or which are created out of whole cloth in IRS internal rulemaking. I don't have a firm idea of a perfect system, but even before Trump's intervention things were generally awful. It would be nice to figure out some much simpler implementation, like "no corporate taxes, but capital gains are now 30%". I'm no expert. But the abiding pressure towards anticompetitive M&A activity does need some kind of pushback in some area of policy, and If some minimum corporate tax is on the table then so are progressive corporate taxes. It would be nice to provide that counter pressure in a natural incentive rather than via the threat of a case by case basis prosecution for alleged anticompetitive abuses.
We need to look at where we work and consume as much as how we vote. Campaign funds don't come from poor people.
Well for the charitable organizations sector - it IS the lower income brackets that (collectively) do the lion's share.
These guys don’t know how AIs are trained, do they…
Some AI is trained in the way they claim, but the issue in the case they're focusing on involves a company that couldn't be bothered to develop their AI platform patiently, using solid engineering practices. They were trying to get to their liquidity event before anyone looked behind the curtain to see what they were up to. Think Theranos, for example.
@@Yocambio except they were building the network. Again this is how you build it
Nope.
I work in animation and its getting worse...
You might need to get another job that AI cannot replace. I need a job myself so that
I can have some money when my dad is old to work
How bad is it for you in animation?
@fluxonite it's going to slowly shift and get worse. My personal job feels pretty secure, for the few years I have left ahead before retirement, also we are one of the few studios left who hand-draw. Unfortunately CGI is being hit the hardest and I feel the pain of the younger generations. I am not at all "against tech"... I am against "greedy humans", who just look at the bottom line. I don't think I can post a link in a comment, but you can look up this article in Cartoon Brew, by title searching :
Lionsgate Signs Deal With AI Company Runway, Hopes That AI Can Eliminate Storyboard Artists and VFX Crews
My graphic design degree ..wasted
@@MalikTolbert3 wait, are you saying that right now your dad is working to give you money?
THIS PEOPLES IS BEHIND MIDJOURNEY ,AND KLING
WAOH AMAZING 😘😘😘
Before I read the name I thought, "Oh it's Jordan Chariton!"
I thought the same exact thing.
Someone said he looks like if Sam and Kyle Kullinski had a son.
Yanis Varoufakis refers to this as Techno-Feudalism. The business model is to lure people onto digital fiefdoms (e.g. Amazon, Facebook, Adobe, etc.) then, when they're dependent on the fiefdom, extract rents. Hence, "enshittification."
US insurance carriers have mostly transitioned their member services to a similar company.....mostly one company serving the big carriers.
Anyone else think it’s INSANE that more than 50% of the S&P is oriented towards AI? Could this be the biggest bubble ever? I think so…
Naw it’s big sure but not that big yet. It seems bigger then it actually is vs like the 2008 housing bubble.
@@davidradtke160 idk man, the size of the bubble and the size of the crash are not necessarily the same thing. The 2007/2008 crash was exceptionally large because of the nature of the assets in jeopardy and the sheer lack of liquidity in the market at that time. Nobody could buy and everybody HAD to sell = huge crash. Right now there is a lot of liquidity and interest rates just lowered so honestly the sheer size of this bubble is unprecedented. However, probably won’t crash as dramatically because liquidity isn’t that tight and the assets are mostly speculative, not finite. The bubble is mostly contained within the markets, therefore less dramatic consequences
@@kylenmaple4668Lex Greensill.
I keep getting emails from vendors asking to showcase how they can automate my job and they go in the trash 😂
Just make sure they don't end up in your boss's inbox.
The outsourcing company or the call center company will attract clients and making unrealistic promises of fast efficient customer service handling. But customers fight for their rights and the Filipino CSR will protect the company against the customer.
Uber shouldn’t even be allowed to exist!
Driving with customers should require a license, and everyone doing such work should be organized.
Those owning cars in cooperatives that run central, and those employed in workers unions….
As a tech professional, I feel this is an irrelevant story. Sure he studied ONE company who's NOT actually using machine learning. This doesn't speak to the larger actual issue of who's data is training the machine model. Is it really news that the coding is offshored, that workers aren't paid fairly?
The outsourcing isn't really the coding. It's the classification. Basically the people looking at pictures and saying what is in thr picture. The coding is being done at the companies and now by ai for the easy stuff.
Nope, it’s the data models being build by low wage workers.
The damage that investor culture is doing to workers is the main story here, and much bigger than just AI, so you might want to pay attention to what they are saying.
Adobe is a great example
It's insulting that they'd call the phillipino workers' intelligence "artificial"
Private equity's game is to go from sector to sector and minimize consumer surplus.
Question for Sam, Exactly how high is that pie going??
Nothing compares to the machinery of human cognition. Especially when it comes to making judgement calls!
LLMs are a moderation system. You might get the chance to either provide answers or judge the quality of the answers. Some forums like Slashdot have had similar systems for years that used basic probabilities for similar approaches rather than a neural network. I think statistical learning is a slightly less heated promise than calling what we have AI.
That's not AI. That's just I.
More venture capitalism is not the answer. Please review what the question is. We are being bled dry. Private equity is fighting over who extracts my last penny. Silicon valley is just a scam. Maybe it was a valuable at one time but it's all about hype now.
Waiting for RUclips to be replaced by a better product
”Silly-con Valley”
Is the thumbnail for this video an actual photo from this journalism or a stock image?
Sam fails to understand that the AI's are being trained, just like a dog you don't need to train it forever.
I am coming to realize that while I think AI is real, it’s way overhyped. It’s just data.
don't generalize, not all AI, unlike people are not all created or represented equal
You know what I have a theory maybe it's not humans it's the carbon the carbon's been doing it 😳 humans don't exist....
So AI is really poor people overseas ??? Wtf 😂😂😂😂
Not exactly. In some instances it is, but in others it is definitely not. So take this video with a grain of salt.
Payment in the Philippines for even degreed individuals is very low. What you will probably find is that these people hired to do low-end work are only too happy to have a job and get paid.
Also - I have been an investor and entrepreneur for more than 30 years. I have found that a significant percentage of investors (and shareholders) are not good at calculating the potential viability of a given business concept. Uber is not a good business model (overall), but there will always be investors who are unable to figure that.
my first thought was 'who's Al'
If you remove all the workers in the world from the workplace, and make all the widgets and services auto-magically, who is going to by the products coming off the assembly lines, and use the services that are available?
I mean no one…that’s the real problem with inequality. It ultimately destroys the wealth of the wealthy that support it.
The rich dont care. They'll be dead and gone in 50 years when this becomes a reality and capitalism collapses.
Maybe the robot will?
@@nurlindafsihotang49 lol
And that's exactly why no matter how much they try you can't hoard wealth forever war will eventually break out and the money will be redistrubuted.
It's like I always say. This country is in a constant need of growth. But I say, growth for whom?
Why some videos of this channel have the like block?
I’ve visited a contact center in Latin America where they have agents remote controlling “AI” food delivery reboots for a major food chain.
there are niches where this is true however the major AI uses are impossible because when I use AI to help with coding Applications it is impossible for a low paid worker in the Philippines to understand what I am asking and to provide the code for a very complex task with algorithms and packages and their complex interdependence within less than 3 seconds like AI does for me.
I remember the Uber story of the driver encounter with Uber CEO. People are hardware, not software that can be updated or refurbished.
What would a fair world look like?
This is a tale as old as CAPITALISM. The owning class don't want to pay for your labour, BUT want to extract as much value they can from you. Whether that's "wage slavery" in "off-shore" manufacturing and customer-service in Mexico, Philippines, India and China, or just regular slavery in "off-shore" mining in DRC, Sudan, Papua New Guinea and Tigray.
There are several sites that hire contractors to train AI now. They hire in the US too, but they often pay less to other countries. I realize thats different than just having contractors in the moment, but either way, it's shitty contract work with no benefits.
AI: Assisted by Indian
How long before you finally hear the static in your audio and fix it?
What stops the workers from using an AI platform from another company to train the AI at their job?
Model collapse
What is stopping another company making a different taxi app that doesn’t take so much from drivers?
what’s factually happening is the copycat apps are doing it more. is an entire industry of theft.
for the record, ub’r cheated me so badly i ended up homeless.
Startup cost, presumably.
Long time fan of the channel, but it's really disappointing to see this covered like AI is a monolith and that no effort was made to distinguish what specific types of services were doing this. Not all AI works like what is described here, and some of the most notable products and services do not use humans for the actual product. Also, not all AI training is done with low wage labor, and this guest talked about it like this made up the entire training. It's akin to misinformation sharing this without the actual nuances of how these institutions build and run these products. I work in the ML industry and find how this was represented, especially with the title, was really disingenuous.
@JoeDiMaggio-fu8ld for real, I really expect more nuance from the team here, and to see them just accept the guests' information at face value is a real drag.
Public banking with housing and technology loan where the city/ county/ state get's a percentage of profits in the general fund restricted to paying for municipal labor and infrastructure.
That’s already a thing. It’s called taxation.
Unfortunately these alternate model being suggested would have to be legislated by politicians who would squash it w/ their VC money ..besides the following 5 entities are under the control of the financial elite :
Finance.
Science / tech
Resources
Military. & Information/ data
Where does Sam get his Glasses?
Human GPUs
"present company excluded"
GOLD
Sam is a derivative of a derivative of a derivative your readings of Jacques Derrida's Das Eine... If you have read him... I am very impressed ❤😊😊
This is all about pre-market share. Uber knows there will be a robotaxi service in the future, so by emulating that service with human hamsters they are hoping to dominate the hypothetical future market.
But today? There is no way to lipstick the pigs. Either keep subsidizing or actually build the product before jumping in
TBF for 2 dollar an hr that's P100 per hour here and if you work for 8 hrs you'd get P800 per day which is almost twice the minimum salary here.