I find it really informative to know that adding the dry hop at either point comes to the same desired end in taste. The fact that at yeast means clearer is good information. I have only done it at the end so far and while cloudy was what I was hoping for. Knowing this information I can use it to keep my beer more clear by hoping at yeast pitch.
I had an ipa in the keg that didnt have huge hop flavour or aroma. After about 2 weeks i decided to add about 30 grams of hops to the keg. Just purged the keg , opened it and added hops in stainless hop tube. Transformed the beer. Even after 6 hours there was a big difference. Flavour hung around until keg was empty. Worth a try. Dont add to much tho. 20 - 30 grams is best for 19l keg.
I can vouch that the keg hop works, but after 2 weeks starts to get that hop bitterness. I have one suggestion, try adding the dry hop at the end of fermentation when you already chill the beer and the temp is less then 10° celcius. Leave for max 3 days and keg at around 4-6 ° celcius. I am fermenting under pressure so i think that helps too
I like the fact that a lot of exBeeriments come back with no statistical findings! Much of the online forums posts from the early 2000s make homebrewing out to be a very strict science, with heavy opinions on how things need to be done. It's good to see that at the end of the day, what you brew and how you brew it will probably ultimately come out tasting nice.
Martin, thanks very useful. I have a Pinter fermenter that I use to make small batch 10 pint AG brews. I was wondering what difference dry hopping at yeast pitch would make, not a great deal according to this analysis. Excellent news.
Damn - I just bought some food-grade magnets so I can add the hops towards the end of fermentation, without having to open the fermenter. And now you tell me it doesn't matter! Perhaps I'll do my own testing!
The last two batches I added my dry hops during active fermentation. I feel I don't have to worry so much about oxidation as much as at the end of fermentation.
I think the color difference in the biotransformation experiment likely has more to do with oxidation than dry hopping. The beer that was dry hopped at high krausen was still blowing off CO2 to reduce its oxygen exposure when the hops were added. Getting a Fermzilla with a hop dropper is a great investment for anyone who wants to significantly improve their IPAs. Ferment at no pressure for the first few days, drop the first hop charge in, then ferment the remainder under pressure and drop any additional charges under pressure. Layering in multiple doses, including some after a cold crash before transferring to a keg, gives me the best results at the moment.
So, "yeast pitch hopping" would be good for avoiding some oxigenation if I dry hop after activity slows down, right? what about the risk of contamination adding hops at the beginning when there is not alcohol yet? Maybe freezing the hops one or two days prior? Nice experiments!!
So I brew my beers in spring and fall in bulk with the result that some of my pale ales are sitting in the keg for months. I find the hop bitterness is still fine but there is no floral hop aroma anymore compared to fresh beer. It sounds like I can add a dry hop addition post fermentation in the keg to bring that back so I would do this just before putting on tap and then pull out the hops prior to serving. I am also wondering if hop oils would be any good for this, cheers.
I didn't understand how yeast pitch and high krausen could be different. Like the hops are still in there from yeast pitch isn't the effect the same? And what if you cold crash for a few days after you did the yeast pitch and fermentation was done? Would you end up with the keg hopping effect?
Thank you I never made a dry hop because I don't like very hopy beers but I always wondered how the beer come when dry hop during the fermentation. God bless you.
It's 2024, why can't we get some experiments that didn't occur 3 years ago? I'm willing to do an experiment, I've got plenty of fermenters, kegs and about 20 lbs of hops i can use.
These beers didnt really look very... modern hazies to me - quite low hop rates and still seemingly oxidized based on colour alone. Oxidation probably closes the gap on whether they are statistically different or not alone. Very good experiments in essense, but I think these beers do not look world class examples of proper hazies. None of them really looked like pineapple or orange juice - the goal. Cheers
Yes I noticed that the only actual hazy in the experiment was the first one, which (correct me if I'm wrong) was pressure fermented? Which adds another variable to impact flavor... And the second (bottle conditioned) one just looked horribly oxidized. Probably couldn't tell the difference in hop flavor over all of the oxidation flavors. I do wonder if the experiment was done again, using a hazy with a HUGE dry hop addition and less (or no) hops during the boil, and comparing the dry hop at high krausen vs. after fermentation is complete - plus not using pressure fermentation, and taking steps to ensure no oxidation - would that produce a different outcome?
I've been making consistently delicious hazies (5-galllon batches) by dry hopping 8 ounces at 48 hours into primary fermentation. At 5 days, I then rack to a secondary vessel and dry hop another 8 ounces. I believe this works out to about 6 pounds per barrel, which is a lot, but at this scale is okay with me. By day 8, I rack to a corny keg. This is all with 7 gallon food-grade buckets. The most important change I made to my process was purging everything at every step of the process with CO2. Yields delicious, beautiful, orange juice-looking beer.
Best Hazies I’ve ever made have had a low level of whirlpool hops, and then a shite ton of hops added to the keg which is left at 15°c for 2 days. So much flavour, so fresh (assuming you are using new hops) Can make a hazy out of a SMASH this way
I heard not too long ago that the source of the term dates back to when Britain was shipping IPA all around the world, and actually refers to the phenomenon of hop creep. They knew it happened even back way back then, and that it dried out the beer. Is it true? I don't know. It's hard to say, and it seems like one of those things that we may never truly know the full context of. That said, cold hopping seems just as valid of terminology.
@@ProdigalPunker Thanks for the insight! I hadn't put that together myself and it makes a lot of sense. Considering that only certain hops exhibit hop creep, and that "dry" for sweetness is a bit weird anyway, I think I'll stick with "cold" or "cold side" or "post pitch" hopping. Maybe "brut" is better than dry? or are we just moving the problem to an unfamiliar language?
The experiments he uses are outdated. Creating a video with snippets from old website data isn’t very helpful. How about making a video with new experiments and incorporating modern dry hop techniques? The current experiments don’t reflect the kinds of beers people are interested in today. It would be more valuable to conduct new research and report on that.
Maybe sign up to actually help Martin pump out weekly videos in a channel dedicated to a niche hobby that requires a 4+ hour time investment (and that's not including preparing and editing) if you have a problem with the content?
@ I get that creating weekly videos takes a lot of time and effort, but time invested does not necessarily equal value if the content feels outdated. Martin clearly has the skills and following to make a big impact by bringing in new approaches that could elevate his content. Constructive feedback like this is about making great content even better.
I find it really informative to know that adding the dry hop at either point comes to the same desired end in taste. The fact that at yeast means clearer is good information. I have only done it at the end so far and while cloudy was what I was hoping for. Knowing this information I can use it to keep my beer more clear by hoping at yeast pitch.
I had an ipa in the keg that didnt have huge hop flavour or aroma. After about 2 weeks i decided to add about 30 grams of hops to the keg. Just purged the keg , opened it and added hops in stainless hop tube. Transformed the beer. Even after 6 hours there was a big difference. Flavour hung around until keg was empty. Worth a try. Dont add to much tho. 20 - 30 grams is best for 19l keg.
Right on! I'm a fan of adding during high krausen myself.
I can vouch that the keg hop works, but after 2 weeks starts to get that hop bitterness. I have one suggestion, try adding the dry hop at the end of fermentation when you already chill the beer and the temp is less then 10° celcius. Leave for max 3 days and keg at around 4-6 ° celcius. I am fermenting under pressure so i think that helps too
That is the modern way, used by Scott Janish etc. This is da wae.
yes if you plan on drinking the keg quickly it’s excellent. Or even if you just drink past the hop container, so the hops are still not in the beer.
I like the fact that a lot of exBeeriments come back with no statistical findings! Much of the online forums posts from the early 2000s make homebrewing out to be a very strict science, with heavy opinions on how things need to be done. It's good to see that at the end of the day, what you brew and how you brew it will probably ultimately come out tasting nice.
Martin, thanks very useful. I have a Pinter fermenter that I use to make small batch 10 pint AG brews. I was wondering what difference dry hopping at yeast pitch would make, not a great deal according to this analysis. Excellent news.
Damn - I just bought some food-grade magnets so I can add the hops towards the end of fermentation, without having to open the fermenter.
And now you tell me it doesn't matter! Perhaps I'll do my own testing!
food-grade magnets being what, exactly?
@@jyri Magnets used for sous-vide, they are encased in food grade plastic/silicon
Will give this a try, I usually dry hop mid way through fermentation for 3-4 days
The last two batches I added my dry hops during active fermentation. I feel I don't have to worry so much about oxidation as much as at the end of fermentation.
This was really interesting, thank you.
As I dont have a method of dry hopping without introducing O2, I use the high krousen method and have found I much prefer the beers I've made this way
I think the color difference in the biotransformation experiment likely has more to do with oxidation than dry hopping. The beer that was dry hopped at high krausen was still blowing off CO2 to reduce its oxygen exposure when the hops were added. Getting a Fermzilla with a hop dropper is a great investment for anyone who wants to significantly improve their IPAs. Ferment at no pressure for the first few days, drop the first hop charge in, then ferment the remainder under pressure and drop any additional charges under pressure. Layering in multiple doses, including some after a cold crash before transferring to a keg, gives me the best results at the moment.
So, "yeast pitch hopping" would be good for avoiding some oxigenation if I dry hop after activity slows down, right? what about the risk of contamination adding hops at the beginning when there is not alcohol yet? Maybe freezing the hops one or two days prior? Nice experiments!!
Its definitely got me thinking. Im curios if adding the dry hops at the beginning will always create a clear beer even if its supposed to be hazy.
In the hazy vs clear beers, would floating dip tubes made a difference vs using a hop spider in the keg?
So I brew my beers in spring and fall in bulk with the result that some of my pale ales are sitting in the keg for months. I find the hop bitterness is still fine but there is no floral hop aroma anymore compared to fresh beer. It sounds like I can add a dry hop addition post fermentation in the keg to bring that back so I would do this just before putting on tap and then pull out the hops prior to serving. I am also wondering if hop oils would be any good for this, cheers.
I didn't understand how yeast pitch and high krausen could be different. Like the hops are still in there from yeast pitch isn't the effect the same? And what if you cold crash for a few days after you did the yeast pitch and fermentation was done? Would you end up with the keg hopping effect?
I add hops at all stages , yeast pitch , high Krousen, and end of fermentation and for kicks .. in the keg … wow amazing beer !!!!
Oh I also add at whirlpool !!! Yikes !!!!
For all styles?
With these results I would be curious with an additional variable of double dry hopping.....
great video. thx alot!!
You really need to compare long dry hop @ high krausen vs short hop 24-48 post cold crash.
Why not use all 3 methods in 1 batch?? Adds layers to the finished beer. IMO of course.
Thank you I never made a dry hop because I don't like very hopy beers but I always wondered how the beer come when dry hop during the fermentation. God bless you.
I'm really puzzled by the appearance difference in the first experiment. Why would a beer dry-hopped at yeast add be so much clearer?
My assumption is more time for it to settle?
It's 2024, why can't we get some experiments that didn't occur 3 years ago? I'm willing to do an experiment, I've got plenty of fermenters, kegs and about 20 lbs of hops i can use.
Add to the glass you are drinking .
Martin I Challenge you to Brew a beer that taste good but has a F.G. of .998 +/- .001 and O.G. of around 1.038
using Alpha amylase. Cheers Brett
These beers didnt really look very... modern hazies to me - quite low hop rates and still seemingly oxidized based on colour alone. Oxidation probably closes the gap on whether they are statistically different or not alone. Very good experiments in essense, but I think these beers do not look world class examples of proper hazies. None of them really looked like pineapple or orange juice - the goal. Cheers
Yes I noticed that the only actual hazy in the experiment was the first one, which (correct me if I'm wrong) was pressure fermented? Which adds another variable to impact flavor...
And the second (bottle conditioned) one just looked horribly oxidized. Probably couldn't tell the difference in hop flavor over all of the oxidation flavors.
I do wonder if the experiment was done again, using a hazy with a HUGE dry hop addition and less (or no) hops during the boil, and comparing the dry hop at high krausen vs. after fermentation is complete - plus not using pressure fermentation, and taking steps to ensure no oxidation - would that produce a different outcome?
Yeh first one was from 2017 didn’t even have a 80C whirlpool addition
I've been making consistently delicious hazies (5-galllon batches) by dry hopping 8 ounces at 48 hours into primary fermentation. At 5 days, I then rack to a secondary vessel and dry hop another 8 ounces. I believe this works out to about 6 pounds per barrel, which is a lot, but at this scale is okay with me. By day 8, I rack to a corny keg. This is all with 7 gallon food-grade buckets. The most important change I made to my process was purging everything at every step of the process with CO2. Yields delicious, beautiful, orange juice-looking beer.
Best Hazies I’ve ever made have had a low level of whirlpool hops, and then a shite ton of hops added to the keg which is left at 15°c for 2 days.
So much flavour, so fresh (assuming you are using new hops)
Can make a hazy out of a SMASH this way
All the predictable haters in the comments :D
The joke in my homebrew clubs is that the Brü tasters couldn't differentiate a glass of tar from the pitcher of cool aid they drank just before. :D
I think the term "dry" hopping is dumb. I've started calling it "cold" hopping. Way more accurate.
I heard not too long ago that the source of the term dates back to when Britain was shipping IPA all around the world, and actually refers to the phenomenon of hop creep. They knew it happened even back way back then, and that it dried out the beer. Is it true? I don't know. It's hard to say, and it seems like one of those things that we may never truly know the full context of.
That said, cold hopping seems just as valid of terminology.
@@ProdigalPunker Thanks for the insight! I hadn't put that together myself and it makes a lot of sense.
Considering that only certain hops exhibit hop creep, and that "dry" for sweetness is a bit weird anyway, I think I'll stick with "cold" or "cold side" or "post pitch" hopping.
Maybe "brut" is better than dry? or are we just moving the problem to an unfamiliar language?
Brett was the reason those original ipas were very dry
I wonder if these poor participants ever get tired of drinking all this oxidized beer
Oh come on. 🤡
The experiments he uses are outdated. Creating a video with snippets from old website data isn’t very helpful. How about making a video with new experiments and incorporating modern dry hop techniques? The current experiments don’t reflect the kinds of beers people are interested in today. It would be more valuable to conduct new research and report on that.
For example, take a tree house style recipe or something like sip of sunshine. Make a beer similar to those and try different dry hop approaches.
Maybe sign up to actually help Martin pump out weekly videos in a channel dedicated to a niche hobby that requires a 4+ hour time investment (and that's not including preparing and editing) if you have a problem with the content?
@ I get that creating weekly videos takes a lot of time and effort, but time invested does not necessarily equal value if the content feels outdated. Martin clearly has the skills and following to make a big impact by bringing in new approaches that could elevate his content. Constructive feedback like this is about making great content even better.
Tree house is the most overrated brewery in the entire world, they’re ok nothing special in 2024