The Jerusalem connection: where was the Masjid Al Haran originally? Paul Ellis
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Paul Ellis introduces for the first time the Jerusalem thesis. This was originally published on Sneaker's Corner on August 11th, 2020.
Islamic Origins seeks to find out how Islam truly began.
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Yet Melchezdech was already worshiping God Most High in Salem. Also whats Abraham doing in a deadzone with presumably herds of dying sheep and goats that have no water and hundreds of helpers who would also have absolutely no water to drink?
The mountain that mohammed was reputed to have gone to was in fact a great steaming pile of lies!
Excellent! Read the Qur'an carefully, and you discover that the description of the "mother of cities" does not describe dry, barren Mecca at all. It DOES fit Jerusalem, however.
Hahaha.. Twisted history.. God loves you but what is written in your books are all jumbled of history and lies.. A collection of stories that was not understood by your said prophets about the jews. Christianity.. Buddhism.. Hinduism... Your religion comes after this.. So what is your claim.. The name Jerusalem itself is Hebrew and everything in Israel the promise Land given by God to the jews.. I'm a Christian but I don't deny history and history speak itself from the Bible.. Islamic books doesn't have any evidence even in stones.. Study the Bible and history and go to the holy land so that you can see the truth.
Now I wonder whether the place mentioned on the maps today: Al-Baqa'a could be the same as "Bakka", as this seems to be a valley or a high pasture. And according to today's measurements, it would take about 4 hours to reach the Temple Mount on foot from there. This would explain the underlying joy in the Psalm, as one is getting closer to one's goal, the Temple.
Against every scholarly ruling, let us grant that Islam is 1400 years old: Available are many ancient maps on which there are many ancient cities - some cities dating back to 3000 B.C. (And those cities are still standing today.) How difficult can it be for Muslims to show us one (single) map that is carbon dated before the 10th century A.D. on which is the City of Mecca - the oldest city in human existence that is directly located underneath Paradise (original home of Islamic 90-feet tall Adam and Eve that has the “Fountain of Youth” called the Zamzam Well)?
Mel. I am not expecting you to answer my questions, I am posing them for others’ consideration.
John of Damascus, was the one who eventually, mentioned that the muhammad mentioned in the 8th century was the one the muslims were talking about
So. Adam and Eve built the first city on earth in Mecca, presumably they had a water source, built a kaaba and homes for all the people who came after them. So. Hagar arrives there, she finds no one. She has no water. This is when Jibril stamps his foot and the Zam Zam spring is created just 60 feet from the kaaba (hmm a jinn/demon or angel creates…?) Why couldn’t Hagar just go and knock on doors for help? Yup. Simply another Islamic conundrum! 🤣🤣🤣
Exactly!
Does Paul believe Mohammad existed? What does he think of the MHMD?
Oh. This will be a good review before you bring on your new series.
Yes, it is kind of necessary as there may be some who haven't yet seen it. I will follow up with sections where Odon supports a Jerusalem connection, though obviously neither are suggesting Jerusalem is the sole geographical place of interest.
Mel, Paul thanks a lot. I have gathered nearly 80% to show who Muhammad' was. As a tip, the constitution of Medina article 23 reads, "in case of any disagreement between you, ask God or (the) Mhmd". The mhmd should have been immortal to be constitutional.
We also know that Nehemiah b Hushiel was killed with his mhmd. So, you now know that mhmd was not a person.
Abu Bakr al Sadiq ruled from al Hira, Ali from Kufa, all the Umayyads from Damascus, the Abbasids from Baghdad. Where is the Hijaz?
Re the events noted in 661, the leader of the Arabs had been Muawiya, I believe, from 640, (he declared himself caliph in 652 and ruled to 680) was he called Mohammad, or was he called MHMD in the Psuedo-Sebeos account?
How about Bosra the former Nabatean Trade centre and documented first target of Arabs when attacking Trinitarian Byzantines. If you are constructing an Arab Abrahamic religion you pick a the old ceremonial capital relating to you location - Petra - and it does not have to be active even if usage for paganism long gone. Bosra and Petra come as a Nabatean pair once whatever went on in Jerusalem failed. Note that as it later became a main pilgrimage caravan stop when Mecca did exist much later, it would be easier to switch its association with change of regime.
A couple of questions for you Mel.
1.If Jerusalem is Mecca,where do you feel all the early "caliphs" were/lived.Or was it various towns/cities.
2.Regarding your Iraqi thesis,do you now think everything/evidence led there because the Abassids created Islam.
There is absolutely no non Muslim evidence for the rightly guided caliphs, their lives or actions. There is evidence as Mel has stated for Arab leaders beginning with the rise of the Arabs in 617AD - notably Iyas bin Qadisa of the Tayyayye tribe, then Umar immediately after (note his actual leadership does not align with the SIN ( standard Islamic narrative) then Arab leader Al-Walid peaceably took control of Damascus in 635AD, Muawiya was next from 640 and he declared himself the first Caliph in 651AD thru 680 AD. History, including recently translated Chinese accounts from the contemporary Tang court, attests to these leaders.
1. Damascus, then Baghdad. 2. Abbasids left their fingerprints there, yes.
"Haram" is a contronymic, because it pertains to the sacred. As such, it means "sacred", as in "sanction", "set apart", or "holy" (the etymological cousin), not "prohibited/forbidden", or "profane", it's opposite pole. This comes from the semitic/Hebrew "cherem", which means the same as above.
There's no need for speculation: Its the Temple.
Little Sir Echo!
The ma'amad that commanded the arab conquests was the ruling council of Jewish elders, a sort of Sanhedrin. Right now I am equating Qabisa and his son Iyas ibn Qabisa to Hushiel and Nehemiah ben Hushiel. Both sets were Khosrows buddies. Khosrow appointed Iyas governor of Al Hira in 614, and appointed Nehemiah governor of Jerusalem in 614. Nehemiah was killed in 617, Iyas ceased to be governor of Al Hira in 617. Iyas was a cousin of Hani, Hushiel was the brother of Haneman. The Quraysh were in charge of the ka'ba, the Korathites were in charge of the Temple.
The Mohammedans did pilgrimage to see the Caliph in Baghdad aka Madinat as salam (Tudela), in a palace that bore the traditional burial place of the Quraysh- the exilarch lived at Nahar Malka (changed to Makka).
The stories go on and on. Islam is Judaism for non- ethnic jews, the shlamim, Muslamai.
After writing the Talmud and the gemara, the Jewish yeshivot of sura and pumbedita embarked on scripture for the muslamai. Qabisa and Umar were both Rosh al ma'amad - head of council. This filtered to the outside world as Mahamad, Mahomet, Mehmet. Sebeos and Thomas etc only wrote from hearsay.
Check everything that I have w
Marwa = Aramaic for Moriah
Safa = Aramaic for the Latinate English "Scopus" the "sc-" would have been pronounced "Sh"; "Safa" is very close to the original Biblical Hebrew name for Scopus, הַר הַצּוֹפִים "Har ha TSofim (Sofim)"
See Josephus.
Mel,if jerusalem then why dan gibson say petra and he makes own conclusion
His margin of error is huge. Dealt with it lots of times before.
First!!😊
And second, I believe.
Originally the kaaba was in Jerusalem, not in Mecca, and it was jewish.
We have to remember that the quran was originally a preaching book of the Nazarenes (called "nasara" (نَصَرَ) in the quran) who were a jewish-christian sect (a "heretical" one for regular byzantine christians since they did not believe in Jesus divinity nor in Trinity).
As Jews they practiced pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and their ultimate goal was to go to Salomon's temple.
The Holy of Holies was located at the westernmost end of the Temple building and was a cube: 20 cubits by 20 cubits by 20 cubits. The inside was in darkness and contained the Ark of the Covenant. And it was located at the actual location of the Dome of the rock in Jerusalem.
So originally the kaaba was in Jerusalem, not in Mecca, and it was jewish.
This is also why the first mosques had their qiblas directed to Jerusalem and not to Mecca.
Dan gibson put in petra why
@@urbandsouza7279
One reason could be (hypothesis) that the arabs chose Petra as first alternative to Jerusalem, then for some reasons, maybe some internal conflicts, they finally chose Mecca which is farther away south.
Another reason could be that Petra being not very far from Jerusalem (ca 200 kms), the mosque builders did not have the precision tools we have today to measure the exact direction of qiblas
??
@jeangatti9384 what is the significance of petra for them .
@@urbandsouza7279
Neither Petra nor Mecca were important, what was important for the caliphs was to create a new religion for the new arab empire with a book (quran), a city (mecca) and a prophet (muhammad).
So they invented all this to serve their interests and power.
@@jeangatti9384 do u think they planned it or swim with the flow.