Absolutely flawless presentation. Thank you for this video as I am chasing down a method for producing the finest edge possible on my scythe. I was lacking the fine version of the honing stone and I appreciate the example of proper edge location and how to properly see the materials when honed. Thank you!
Yeah, Thanks. I thought I had to peen mine and it wasn't working. I didn't realize the difference between American and European. Now I have to get a European blade. I might as well learn to use both.
Very helpful. I bought a vintage scythe today for $6. The snath is heavy and thick at the base, what I understand to be a later snath used in clearing for the railroads. It has a 30" grass blade, I believe to be American style. First step will be electrolysis for the blade to remove rust and then see what I have to work with. I guess I need to rebuild the stand for my grinding wheel now.
Heavy snaths can be shaved down to a reasonable weight, though you have to do some corrective work to the nib bands if doing so to get them to fit the reduced shaft diameter. For a low cost alternative to a grinding wheel, check out the specially formulated grinding points we carry! Not quite as nice as using a wheel, but it's cheaper and almost as good.
@@FortyTwoBlades I will be buying honing stones. I already have a nice, old grinding wheel. Just need to build a new stand for it. I thought about thinning the snath with a drawknife, but leaving the base its current diameter and tapering into it to prevent a stress point. It would be easier to just buy another snath, though.
Great vodeo. I too have this Grizzly grinder. Thanks for the tips. I cannot imagine harvesting my crop of wheat with this gadget, but it certainly is sharp.
I recently got a batch of old (probably 80ish years old, could be older as there's a 1926 patent marker on one) scythes and as I've been removing the rust I've noticed that they mostly seem to only have a hollow grind on one side, straight bevel on the other (sorry if those are the right terms but basically one side is like a knife bevel and the other side is like a razor hollow grind). Is this typical for this era? I'm going to try hollow grinding both sides as in this and other videos I've seen.
Specific form of the bevel matters much less than the apex angle being within the prescribed range of sufficient thinness (7-9° per side) though for most mowing a hollow is theoretically ideal. In practice most edges swiftly end up a bit convex, but without a meaningful degree of change in performance so long as the angles were kept thin and the edge apex kept centered in the web of the blade in the case of laminated examples.
The WEN BG4270T is our current recommendation for an economical wet grinder. Grizzly does still make the T32720. The "Viking" G1036 was a better model for this application due to its better clearance of the motor housing, but using the slant method of grinding one may still grind blades with relative ease on the "Tormek derivative" grinders.
I have an old, rusty scythe blade that I was not able to get the first off on my own. Considering what seems to be the special nature of scythe blades, would it be advisable to send it to a place that sharpens blades? I have a local place but I'm not sure if they use this technique... I lack both the skill and tools to undertake this task right now *bashful*
To the best of my knowledge, we're the only place around that currently offers professional regrinding of American scythe blades. I'd not trust regular sharpening services to do a proper job of it. Once the blade is properly reground the first time (when it's in the worst condition it likely ever will be) then it's pretty easy to do maintenance work from then on out.
Is there ever a reason for the length of the blade to be bent? Should it be dead flat except for the tang? My estate sale find is somewhat curved downward along its length. I didn't know if this was possibly a modification for a taller user, a change in the terrain being mowed, or if he just tried to pry out a tree stump...
There is never any reason that you'd want to have your blade bending downward, but it's a common form of damage to find. When looking into the edge the blade should either be dead flat, or gradually curving upwards, but never downwards. That's usually the result of someone "lancing" the dirt HARD with the blade, causing it to "rainbow" itself.
It's worth noting that such damage can usually be repaired by careful hammering along the spine on a sturdy anvil surface. No need for heat--it got that way cold and it can come back cold.
I usually just use white pine. You really don't have to be picky about it since the main goal is just to be softer than steel, so just about any wood will do.
You would want to use one of our specially formulated grinding points for that work. The Manticore is a stone for bevel maintenance and field repair of damaged edges.
@@FortyTwoBlades Darn. I'm looking for a non-electric, non-grinding wheel solution. I don't care if doing it by hand is slow and tedious. I'm patient. But if it's actually not possible with the Manticore, then there's got to be some other non-technical method, I hope.
@@sethmoking you could use filing in blades soft enough to do so or use the Manticore but it would be a laborious process that would take many times longer and yield worse results. I cannot recommend it. If you need a manual option use the grinding point in a manual "eggbeater" drill or use a manual wheel.
Hi thanks for that. I got myself an American scythe for grass, but being tall I've switched the handles to the highest setting. Is it a problem that the edge is pointing up slightly now and may I need to adjust the tang? (I assuming if I was standing on a flat surface the flat of the blade would ideally be flat to the ground)
The tang angle will need adjusting for your height but also if you're 6ft tall or taller you'll probably be too tall for a traditional American snath to fit you right. We designed a snath called the Longfellow that fits tall users more properly. In use you usually want the edge sitting about a finger's thickness off the ground, and most blades have not had their tang adjusted to a correct lay from their factory flat configuration.
@@FortyTwoBlades Ok thanks for that. Well I am over 6ft and have adjusted the handles to the very top setting (placing the highest up to armpit level, which I believe is correct?).Interesting to know you have a handle for tall users though, I will keep that in mind if I decide to get a new one Just one other question if you would please. When you say 7-9 degrees 'per side', do you mean if I get my gauge and measure the total bevel angle it would be about 14-18 degrees? I think I may have done mine TOO thin!
+Mitch Kellar A bit like a cross between a strop and a steel. There's no compound on it (though you could use some if you wished) and it's grabbing any little misalignments of the edge and drawing them out straight.
When you say euro blades I want to clarify it means continental europe, in the nordic countries we use scythes that are sharpened like an american scythe. If I had to guess, american scytches can probably trace their heritage to scandinavia.
In our written materials we specify that. We're well familiar with Nordic and English blades as well as American and continental European blades. Most Nordic blade styles are more stylistically similar to ancient Roman blades and have seen less change over time since their Viking era forms than most other blade styles across the globe. American blades trace their ancestry to English blades, but when English blades first broke from the approach being used elsewhere is unclear, as is when the tensioned style of the continental European blade was first developed.
In the area of Texas I grew up in , there were a lot of German and Czech families that came to the U S in the 19th. century , and they ALL had scythes and such in use on a daily basis because the family had brought it with them when they came . also , grass and hay grows extreamely fast in Texas in spring and early summer .
@@The18tvw as of the time of this question being posed, we should have more aluminum snaths showing up early this upcoming week, and we have more Longfellow snaths in-process with our steam bending contractor.
American blades are much harder than continental European style blades, and are often laminated construction. Peening such blades would be ill-advised.
@@FortyTwoBlades I thought that, our scythes are thin and very soft steel. I think this american is better because with typical european scythe you have to repairing edge very often. I think purpose of that is that every villager can do it with basic tools, but for hardened steel scythe you need better tools.
Do you know where I can find information about how to forge a scythe blade? I'm trying to write a poem about an 18th-century blacksmith forging a scythe blade using some technical, or blacksmithing, terminology? I would like to get the process from start to finish right so that the poem could be enjoyed by the lay person and the blacksmith/scythe expert alike. In other words, would you know where I would be able to get a four- to five-sentence paragraph about how to take a piece of steel or iron (?) and forge it into a scythe blade? Thanks for any help you can give. So glad there are videos like yours out there.
+Profound Greetings from Neptune -- You may find this historical document of use to you. Thanks for the kind words! books.google.com/books?id=7pc7AQAAMAAJ&dq=scythe%20manufactured&pg=PA90#v=onepage&q=scythe%20manufactured&f=false
+FortyTwoBlades Thanks so much for pointing me in a helpful direction -- History is immensely fascinating --, and thanks so much the lightning quick response! I truly appreciate it!
Can i grind european scythes with this method? I have a brand new scythe, i'm learning to peen on old ones but i don't want to touch my new One until i'm able to do It properly Have you ever tried to grind an euro scythe? Mine is very hard so even without hammering the Edge is strong enough What do you think?
Yes, you can grind Euro scythes in a similar manner. You'd just want to grind them in such a way that it accounts for how they are essentially single-beveled. Any grinding on the underside would have to be done just about parallel with the blade's body at the edge. It will be much softer steel than American blades (even the hardest of Euro blades is softer) so the work shouldn't take very long.
I wouldn't, peen the blade every now and then, and use just the whetstone to sharpen. The grindstone method removes too much material, drastically shorten blade life. I still use my grandfathers blade from the mid 60ies and it is still in a really good condition.
Peening is certainly the preferred method for Euro blades, as the work-hardening helps stabilize the soft edge. In the case of American blades, which are not peened, grinding is only done 1-3 times per season. By contrast, a rule of thumb for Euro blades is to peen every ~8 hours of use. However, when done properly, grinding a Euro blade should not remove excessive steel and can be a good precursor to peening if dealing with a thick factory edge.
*DO NOT* peen American scythes. It's completely unnecessary and can easily cause a lot of damage to the blade, especially if it's a laminated one (which many American blades are.) They are much harder than European blades and of fundamentally different design.
How sharp should it be? Please don't say "razor sharp," as that means different things to different people. To knife nuts it means as sharp as an actual razor. Should it be mirror polished and able to slice tissue paper? Or only taken to a bur with a 1000 grit stone? Or 600 grit? Or 5000 grit? Also, what angle should the edge be? 10 degrees inclusive (5 on each side) or 20 degree inclusive (10 degree each side)?
This is all explained in the video, but 7-9° per side is your target angle range, which is literally straight razor edge angle range. However, you want a coarse scratch pattern (but still a crisp apex!) since you're slicing instead of push-cutting like it you would with a razor.
Multiple things wrong here. I *am* using water with the stone for starters. Secondly, American, English, and Nordic blades should NOT be peened, as they are both much harder steel than continental European blades AND are often laminated construction, and peening them would result in the edge being made of soft cladding iron rather that the central layer of hard cutlery steel. Grinding needs only be done 1-3 times per season because the steel is so much more wear resistant than Euro blades, and so while the soft steel is preserved in peening, it is merely fed to the stone in more frequent honing.
a blade in this condition should be permed first to give a proper edge. if the blade was to rusty to peen this method with a wet stone could be used. without a wet stone the temper is destroyed and the back edge should only be touched up to remove the burr.
d hamby False. You do not peen American blades. Try that with this one and you'd be busting chips out of the edge! American scythes are NOT the same as European ones and should not be cared for in the same manner. They are fundamentally different in their design and build.
Furthermore, if you tried peening this blade, even if you were able to avoid cracking and chipping it, you would end up with a single-beveled edge that would be made of the soft cladding iron instead of the hard edge steel. This blade is laminated, and must be ground from both sides so that the edge lays in the center of the web. You CLEARLY did not watch the full video or you would have seen the example given of the effects of uneven grinding where you can see the edge steel running out the side of the bevel. Please educate yourself before commenting, as you are giving advise that could damage American blades and give poor results. Reading can be found here: site.baryonyxknife.com/blog/2014/08/10/a-primer-on-the-selection-use-maintenance-of-the-american-scythe/
Развлечения
Absolutely flawless presentation. Thank you for this video as I am chasing down a method for producing the finest edge possible on my scythe. I was lacking the fine version of the honing stone and I appreciate the example of proper edge location and how to properly see the materials when honed. Thank you!
Extremely helpful. Much thanks. Good to see specialized information about American blades.
Glad it's of use!
Yeah, Thanks. I thought I had to peen mine and it wasn't working. I didn't realize the difference between American and European. Now I have to get a European blade. I might as well learn to use both.
Very helpful. I bought a vintage scythe today for $6. The snath is heavy and thick at the base, what I understand to be a later snath used in clearing for the railroads. It has a 30" grass blade, I believe to be American style. First step will be electrolysis for the blade to remove rust and then see what I have to work with. I guess I need to rebuild the stand for my grinding wheel now.
Heavy snaths can be shaved down to a reasonable weight, though you have to do some corrective work to the nib bands if doing so to get them to fit the reduced shaft diameter. For a low cost alternative to a grinding wheel, check out the specially formulated grinding points we carry! Not quite as nice as using a wheel, but it's cheaper and almost as good.
@@FortyTwoBlades I will be buying honing stones. I already have a nice, old grinding wheel. Just need to build a new stand for it. I thought about thinning the snath with a drawknife, but leaving the base its current diameter and tapering into it to prevent a stress point. It would be easier to just buy another snath, though.
Great jig, I'll need to make one for my homemade slow speed grinder. Thanks for sharing.
Great vodeo. I too have this Grizzly grinder. Thanks for the tips. I cannot imagine harvesting my crop of wheat with this gadget, but it certainly is sharp.
I recently got a batch of old (probably 80ish years old, could be older as there's a 1926 patent marker on one) scythes and as I've been removing the rust I've noticed that they mostly seem to only have a hollow grind on one side, straight bevel on the other (sorry if those are the right terms but basically one side is like a knife bevel and the other side is like a razor hollow grind). Is this typical for this era? I'm going to try hollow grinding both sides as in this and other videos I've seen.
Specific form of the bevel matters much less than the apex angle being within the prescribed range of sufficient thinness (7-9° per side) though for most mowing a hollow is theoretically ideal. In practice most edges swiftly end up a bit convex, but without a meaningful degree of change in performance so long as the angles were kept thin and the edge apex kept centered in the web of the blade in the case of laminated examples.
Thanks for this video, Grizzly is no longer selling a wet grinder that I was able to find. WEN makes something similar.
The WEN BG4270T is our current recommendation for an economical wet grinder. Grizzly does still make the T32720. The "Viking" G1036 was a better model for this application due to its better clearance of the motor housing, but using the slant method of grinding one may still grind blades with relative ease on the "Tormek derivative" grinders.
I have an old, rusty scythe blade that I was not able to get the first off on my own. Considering what seems to be the special nature of scythe blades, would it be advisable to send it to a place that sharpens blades? I have a local place but I'm not sure if they use this technique... I lack both the skill and tools to undertake this task right now *bashful*
To the best of my knowledge, we're the only place around that currently offers professional regrinding of American scythe blades. I'd not trust regular sharpening services to do a proper job of it. Once the blade is properly reground the first time (when it's in the worst condition it likely ever will be) then it's pretty easy to do maintenance work from then on out.
Is there ever a reason for the length of the blade to be bent? Should it be dead flat except for the tang? My estate sale find is somewhat curved downward along its length. I didn't know if this was possibly a modification for a taller user, a change in the terrain being mowed, or if he just tried to pry out a tree stump...
There is never any reason that you'd want to have your blade bending downward, but it's a common form of damage to find. When looking into the edge the blade should either be dead flat, or gradually curving upwards, but never downwards. That's usually the result of someone "lancing" the dirt HARD with the blade, causing it to "rainbow" itself.
It's worth noting that such damage can usually be repaired by careful hammering along the spine on a sturdy anvil surface. No need for heat--it got that way cold and it can come back cold.
@@FortyTwoBlades Perfect!..you just answered my next question..lol
@@FortyTwoBlades Thanks for the rapid response! Sub'd
What would be the best type of wood to use for the whipping stick? I have mostly hardwoods here, but do have some maple, pine, and cedar.
I usually just use white pine. You really don't have to be picky about it since the main goal is just to be softer than steel, so just about any wood will do.
Thanks for the fast reply. 👍
I don't have a grinding wheel, but I did recently purchase one of your "Manticore" continental stones. Could I simply use that to establish the edge?
You would want to use one of our specially formulated grinding points for that work. The Manticore is a stone for bevel maintenance and field repair of damaged edges.
@@FortyTwoBlades Darn. I'm looking for a non-electric, non-grinding wheel solution. I don't care if doing it by hand is slow and tedious. I'm patient. But if it's actually not possible with the Manticore, then there's got to be some other non-technical method, I hope.
@@sethmoking you could use filing in blades soft enough to do so or use the Manticore but it would be a laborious process that would take many times longer and yield worse results. I cannot recommend it. If you need a manual option use the grinding point in a manual "eggbeater" drill or use a manual wheel.
Hi thanks for that. I got myself an American scythe for grass, but being tall I've switched the handles to the highest setting. Is it a problem that the edge is pointing up slightly now and may I need to adjust the tang? (I assuming if I was standing on a flat surface the flat of the blade would ideally be flat to the ground)
The tang angle will need adjusting for your height but also if you're 6ft tall or taller you'll probably be too tall for a traditional American snath to fit you right. We designed a snath called the Longfellow that fits tall users more properly. In use you usually want the edge sitting about a finger's thickness off the ground, and most blades have not had their tang adjusted to a correct lay from their factory flat configuration.
@@FortyTwoBlades Ok thanks for that. Well I am over 6ft and have adjusted the handles to the very top setting (placing the highest up to armpit level, which I believe is correct?).Interesting to know you have a handle for tall users though, I will keep that in mind if I decide to get a new one
Just one other question if you would please. When you say 7-9 degrees 'per side', do you mean if I get my gauge and measure the total bevel angle it would be about 14-18 degrees? I think I may have done mine TOO thin!
so is the whipping stick acting like a strop?
+Mitch Kellar A bit like a cross between a strop and a steel. There's no compound on it (though you could use some if you wished) and it's grabbing any little misalignments of the edge and drawing them out straight.
thanks for the speedy replies.
+Mitch Kellar Happy to help!
When you say euro blades I want to clarify it means continental europe, in the nordic countries we use scythes that are sharpened like an american scythe. If I had to guess, american scytches can probably trace their heritage to scandinavia.
In our written materials we specify that. We're well familiar with Nordic and English blades as well as American and continental European blades. Most Nordic blade styles are more stylistically similar to ancient Roman blades and have seen less change over time since their Viking era forms than most other blade styles across the globe. American blades trace their ancestry to English blades, but when English blades first broke from the approach being used elsewhere is unclear, as is when the tensioned style of the continental European blade was first developed.
In the area of Texas I grew up in , there were a lot of German and Czech families that came to the U S in the 19th. century , and they ALL had scythes and such in use on a daily basis because the family had brought it with them when they came . also , grass and hay grows extreamely fast in Texas in spring and early summer .
a bit of a toothy edge seems to work well on most cutting tools eh
On slicing tools, yes. On push-cutting tools you want a polished edge.
I'm getting closer lol
I bought a used American scythe, and it's very dull, do I need to sharpen both side or just the top?
Both sides so that the edge meets in the middle of the web. This video explains why.
@@FortyTwoBlades how many degrees?
Does the idiom from heal to toe come from scything?
More likely that it's the other way 'round.
@@FortyTwoBlades when are you getter more snaths in stock?
@@The18tvw as of the time of this question being posed, we should have more aluminum snaths showing up early this upcoming week, and we have more Longfellow snaths in-process with our steam bending contractor.
@@FortyTwoBlades awesome I have a very old snath that is deteriorating quite rapidly.
No hammering?
American blades are much harder than continental European style blades, and are often laminated construction. Peening such blades would be ill-advised.
@@FortyTwoBlades I thought that, our scythes are thin and very soft steel. I think this american is better because with typical european scythe you have to repairing edge very often. I think purpose of that is that every villager can do it with basic tools, but for hardened steel scythe you need better tools.
Do you know where I can find information about how to forge a scythe blade? I'm trying to write a poem about an 18th-century blacksmith forging a scythe blade using some technical, or blacksmithing, terminology? I would like to get the process from start to finish right so that the poem could be enjoyed by the lay person and the blacksmith/scythe expert alike. In other words, would you know where I would be able to get a four- to five-sentence paragraph about how to take a piece of steel or iron (?) and forge it into a scythe blade? Thanks for any help you can give. So glad there are videos like yours out there.
+Profound Greetings from Neptune -- You may find this historical document of use to you. Thanks for the kind words!
books.google.com/books?id=7pc7AQAAMAAJ&dq=scythe%20manufactured&pg=PA90#v=onepage&q=scythe%20manufactured&f=false
+FortyTwoBlades Thanks so much for pointing me in a helpful direction -- History is immensely fascinating --, and thanks so much the lightning quick response! I truly appreciate it!
+Profound Greetings from Neptune Always happy to help!
Profound Greetings from Neptune, fantastic screen name.
Dimora Thanks! Much appreciated!
Can i grind european scythes with this method? I have a brand new scythe, i'm learning to peen on old ones but i don't want to touch my new One until i'm able to do It properly
Have you ever tried to grind an euro scythe? Mine is very hard so even without hammering the Edge is strong enough
What do you think?
Yes, you can grind Euro scythes in a similar manner. You'd just want to grind them in such a way that it accounts for how they are essentially single-beveled. Any grinding on the underside would have to be done just about parallel with the blade's body at the edge. It will be much softer steel than American blades (even the hardest of Euro blades is softer) so the work shouldn't take very long.
FortyTwoBlades thank you, i Will try It
Greetings
I wouldn't, peen the blade every now and then, and use just the whetstone to sharpen. The grindstone method removes too much material, drastically shorten blade life.
I still use my grandfathers blade from the mid 60ies and it is still in a really good condition.
Peening is certainly the preferred method for Euro blades, as the work-hardening helps stabilize the soft edge.
In the case of American blades, which are not peened, grinding is only done 1-3 times per season. By contrast, a rule of thumb for Euro blades is to peen every ~8 hours of use.
However, when done properly, grinding a Euro blade should not remove excessive steel and can be a good precursor to peening if dealing with a thick factory edge.
Oh, that's interesting, thought you'd need to sharpen it more often than that, comparable to peening. =)
So are you saying that you can not peen an American Scythe?
*DO NOT* peen American scythes. It's completely unnecessary and can easily cause a lot of damage to the blade, especially if it's a laminated one (which many American blades are.) They are much harder than European blades and of fundamentally different design.
Thank you! Looks like I have a lot of filing to do... Ugh
You might try one of these instead. It costs about the same as a file and works much faster.
www.baryonyxknife.com/grpoforamsc.html
I don't see any water. Looks dry to me, hope I am wrong..
The reservoir of the grinder is full of water.
ronald your used to a high speen water cooled grinder not a slower one like this beauty
How sharp should it be? Please don't say "razor sharp," as that means different things to different people. To knife nuts it means as sharp as an actual razor. Should it be mirror polished and able to slice tissue paper? Or only taken to a bur with a 1000 grit stone? Or 600 grit? Or 5000 grit?
Also, what angle should the edge be? 10 degrees inclusive (5 on each side) or 20 degree inclusive (10 degree each side)?
This is all explained in the video, but 7-9° per side is your target angle range, which is literally straight razor edge angle range. However, you want a coarse scratch pattern (but still a crisp apex!) since you're slicing instead of push-cutting like it you would with a razor.
Why not using water with the stone ? I think your removing more metal the way your showing than peening the blade.
Multiple things wrong here. I *am* using water with the stone for starters. Secondly, American, English, and Nordic blades should NOT be peened, as they are both much harder steel than continental European blades AND are often laminated construction, and peening them would result in the edge being made of soft cladding iron rather that the central layer of hard cutlery steel. Grinding needs only be done 1-3 times per season because the steel is so much more wear resistant than Euro blades, and so while the soft steel is preserved in peening, it is merely fed to the stone in more frequent honing.
Wheres the water for the stone? If you are going to teach do it right!
If you're going to criticize, pay attention! The trough is FULL of water! 😂
a blade in this condition should be permed first to give a proper edge. if the blade was to rusty to peen this method with a wet stone could be used. without a wet stone the temper is destroyed and the back edge should only be touched up to remove the burr.
d hamby False. You do not peen American blades. Try that with this one and you'd be busting chips out of the edge! American scythes are NOT the same as European ones and should not be cared for in the same manner. They are fundamentally different in their design and build.
Furthermore, if you tried peening this blade, even if you were able to avoid cracking and chipping it, you would end up with a single-beveled edge that would be made of the soft cladding iron instead of the hard edge steel. This blade is laminated, and must be ground from both sides so that the edge lays in the center of the web. You CLEARLY did not watch the full video or you would have seen the example given of the effects of uneven grinding where you can see the edge steel running out the side of the bevel. Please educate yourself before commenting, as you are giving advise that could damage American blades and give poor results.
Reading can be found here:
site.baryonyxknife.com/blog/2014/08/10/a-primer-on-the-selection-use-maintenance-of-the-american-scythe/