Pilot's Deadly Mistake Is NOT What Killed Him!
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- The pilot's deadly mistake that the NTSB cited in their final report is NOT what killed him! There are a lot of lessons that we can learn from this terrible tragedy and it's unfortunate that we were left with more questions than answers after the NTSB's two-year investigation.
#aviation #flying #pilotdebrief
This mishap seemed very similar to the Jenny Blaylock (TNFlyGirl) crash and my hope is that the NTSB will dig deeper into Jenny's crash to answer the tough questions in the interest of safety.
What No One Is Saying About This RUclips Pilot's Death
👉 • What No One Is Saying ...
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Развлечения
This investigation left more questions than answers and I don't understand why it took over 2 years for the NTSB to reach the conclusion they did. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got about flying was don't try anything dumb, dangerous, or different. Unfortunately, I think this tragedy met at least two of those criteria. If you want to see another tragedy that might be similar, check out the Jenny Blaylock crash debrief here: ruclips.net/video/kQUS-6SBZzM/видео.html
I really like your content! Good length format too! (Mentour Now is often WAY too long, and he includes annoying endorsements.) Please keep this up! And I think you should work for the NTSB on crash investigations. 👍🏼👍🏼
Greetings from Canada. You have a superb channel. I do not fly, but enjoy your analysis and explanation. Thank you.
The pilot must have been a powerful person or from a powerful family. The NTSB is, as a rule, relentlessly thorough. The absence of flight data tells us that an external (to the NTSB) stakeholder used influence to preclude the release of specific details because (I hypothesize) the pilot was some time of government 'asset.' If not that, perhaps he was from a very powerful family. The fact that the NTSB mentioned drugs as a causal factor also points to deception about the pilot. Psychiatrists would tell you that those medications do not impact cognitive performance. I'd really like to know more about the pilot... (but I won't be searching for it! :) )
I took the private checkride 3 times. A year later I flew my instrument checkride in actual instrument conditions. And got a recommendation from the examiner for a corporate pilot job.
@@danepatterson8107 NTSB may indeed be relentlessly thorough on major crashes, but with these smaller single death crashes it seems clear (and Hoover on Pilot Debrief shows this in several cases) that the NTSB misses important points.
Apparently, not everyone at the NTSB is cut out to be an investigator, either.
"well, they're slow, but they do poor work." I think everyone there (esp the people at the top) AREN'T meant to be investigators. Can you imagine how frustrating it's got to be for the people in that organization who ARE competent to work in such an inefficient, expensive group that produces such useless information?
@@thor3279 I can imagine, because I was in their shoes at a small sheriff's office some years ago. However, unless every investigator there has a micromanaging boss, it escapes me how the most elementary of tasks are ignored, such as interviewing people whose input is valuable to the investigation. Hoover points out these flops from the NTSB quite regularly. Investigations 101...
Seriously, it seems like they just throw random NTSB employees onto the investigation instead of hiring, you know, an actual investigator.
Govt employment is where you go when you cant do anything useful based on intelligence.
Yeah...... that's because NTSB investigators are diversity hires. They're qualified by their Harvard degrees in plagarism.😅😅😅😅
I like this channel because the host gets right into his investigation without wasting time with intro music, cgi or lengthy montages. Excellent research and presentation.
Thank you so much!
Same.
Agreed. Love the way he gets directly into the story without adding a bunch of superfluous details. Hoover, really great videos, if I could make one small recommendation it would be to work on toning down your hand gestures.
Try Mentour Pilot, he takes what should be a ten-minute video and makes it 40 minutes.
@@augidogi1 Allow the man to gesticulate, sir!
When I retired I decided to tick an item off my bucket list, namely getting my pilot’s license. After nearly two years and about 80 hours of instruction I had yet to be cleared to solo and decided I just was not cut out for this. I never had enough mental bandwidth to communicate on the radio and land at the same time. I have absolutely no regrets about the attempt and have many great memories. At one point I took an introductory lesson in a helicopter and though normal flight was not difficult, hovering is incredibly hard. At another point I got to fly a P-51 Mustang and the instructor even let me perform an aileron roll! A real E-Ticket ride.
ppg doesnt require radio. Well, mine does, cuz the pilot enjoys music!
You made the right choice.
Better to have loved and lost, than never to have flown at all. And it takes a great person to know when they have met their match.
I give you a huge thumbs up for being able to admit that it wasn't the right thing for you to do. So many people don't have the guts to admit it. Not that it's something to look down upon. Not everyone is meant to do everything.
I have a friend who works the ticket counter and gate for an airline - - I couldn't (not wouldn't, couldn't) do that job no matter what you pay me.
@@grayrabbit2211 - "I give you a huge thumbs up for being able to admit that it wasn't the right thing for you to do. So many people don't have the guts to admit it."
Absolutely. Jenny Blalock comes to mind. She was the last person to realize she shouldn't have been a pilot.
I really am enjoying your videos. I am a senior female but back in the 80's I dated a doctor who owned a Beech Bonanza AKA "The Doctor Killer". The first time he landed this brand new plane he didn't have the landing gear down. The other thing is that he had narcolepsy which meant he would fall asleep. He would get the plane up and set on auto pilot. He would tell me to watch the horizon and listen to the squawk box. Once we were flying to the coast and of course he was asleep and listening to the hum of the engine I too fell asleep. Yep.... scary. We woke up out over the ocean and had no idea where we were. I then took a Pinch Hitter course so I could take over if I had too. I lasted about 2 years in that relationship and am glad I am out. He didn't die in a plane crash but of a drug overdose. I am lucky to still be here.
Too crazy not to be true 😁
Years ago, when I was working at new york flight service, a pilot called and asked if our lights were on🤔. I had him hold his Mike and used our direction finder and informed him that he was east of Islip. He took it from there. He might have been over the ocean also after falling asleep 😮
Many years ago my flight instructor once admonished me when he said “would you rather be up there wishing you were down here, or down her wishing you were up there”?
That's a great question.
Here her! Can't just pullover up there.
i am up there wishing i was up there ;3;
terrain... terrain.... pull up.... pull up...
I have yet to see a cloud suitable for parking up while waiting for the equivalent of roadside assistance.
One hasn't gotten stuck yet. They always come down. You just want to really have the knowledge, skills, and hours to be a pilot and not a passenger in the plane you're flying.
Great report Hoover. I live near San Antonio. I vaguely remember this incident. When it’s stated a guy has 1100 hours of flight time, your mind doesn’t go in a direction of inexperience or insecurity. But 60% of that being with an instructor paints a different picture entirely.
5000 hours and I think I have around 100 dual received..?
Half a guy’s total time coming up on ATP mins is nuts
Back in the early 80's I soloed at 12 hours. Quite competent with controls etc. Even flew under the hood a few times. I stopped at 28 Hours on the book because knowing the cost of ownership/partnership would be increased over time. Boy was that correct. Today there are some with the opposite situation. Too much money and personal high expectations. This no doubt has a Dunning-Kruger affect related to the pilot. That is what caused this crash. @@noonedude101
@user-zl2cj9ci4q Jealous.
@@skywave12 It has gotten absolutely insane. I don’t fly unless I’m being paid for it now.
I’d love to buy a light twin, but damn, it’s just out of the question right now. The one I want has an average hourly operating cost of around $650 and I just can’t justify it.
It’s crazy how many people who CAN afford it just shouldn’t be in the air. Meanwhile, there are tens of thousands of young, fairly new airline pilots, who are well qualified, and could safely operate an aircraft, but just can’t afford it
@@skywave12 That's what I was thinking. The guy had too much money and was, thus, sadly able to afford something that was way too much aircraft for him.
I appreciate that you are brave enough to say what I have always thought: flying isn't for everyone. I have had that conversation with students before. It is difficult and requires compassion and tact, but needs to be done at times.
Thank you for having those difficult talks. You have likely saved at least one life.
In your experience, do you feel that these are genetic limitations of flying ability, or attitude / confidence issues that don't clear with more instruction, or both?
@@dr-ozone
As a former instructor with about 1200 dual given of different kinds of certification, it can be both. However, the guys who are dangerous because of attitude, usually have above average aptitude in my experience. They have contempt for learning the required book knowledge, however.
@@fazole appreciate your perspective. In your experience what percentage have to give up the dream of flying due to lack of genetic ability?
Agreed!
Hoover, the thing I like about you is that you've spent time in the military, but managed to keep, (or regained) your ability to have a sense of empathy with the families who have lost loved ones in accidents.
Experience tempered by compassion is a VERY valuable perspective.
I can't imagine you researching, writing, filming, editing, etc., this high-quality concise presentation in less than 30-40 hours?! Which means you really love what you do, and really care about what information you share with fellow pilots!
Hi great comment.
Yep, so many good videos out there where creators are passionate about what they present & how they present it 👍
@@mickeysmiths Exactly, I didn't mean to exclude anyone. ;-)
Man’s got a PROCESS
Yes, it is a bit of work to research and put these together but I'm happy to do it if it makes a difference!
As a student pilot, I love these pilot debriefings. It’s terrible these things happen, but the best we can do to honor these peoples’ memories is to learn from whatever mistake(s) they made and to not let it happen again. May the pilot rest in peace and condolences to his loved ones.
Same! Beautifully said, I just passed my FAA written and my wife only watches these videos and it scares her
Yes, well said undeed !
@ayoconman5844 congratulations! Now go get your CPL with or without her (Hopefully with her).
@@paulazemeckis7835 ill do my best!
Regs and safe practices are always written in blood aren’t they?
As a Commercial Pilot and A&P/IA for 45 years, there is nothing worse than getting a brand new aircraft from the factory. It takes a good 100 hours to a year to work out all the little bugs in the airframe! I've taken delivery of brand new Bell 412's, Sikorsky S-76C+, Falcon 2000, and numerous Cessna Jets. Have found rags and red plastic fuel line shipping caps in the fuel cells and boost pumps. Found TWO boost pumps which should have had AN Plugs safety wired in the drain holes which are used to drain the fuel system, instead have red plastic shipping plugs still in the drain holes in the boost pump mounting plate, THAT was scary! It's "Usually" nothing major, but lot's of little things like electrical Gremlins! But, on average you can bet on the 100 hrs to 12 months to get everything working like it should! I'm sure you found the same to be true in the military when you got a brand new aircraft.
"there is nothing worse than getting a brand new aircraft from the factory."
There is when that aircraft is a high performance aircraft and you have low time as a solo pilot.
Automobiles are much the same, they are just much easier to park.
EDIT: This is my second time through this video, carefully this time. I am picking up (I hope) a new high performance car soon. New cars are so much more sophisticated than cars of old and I expect to find some flaws. The problem is that many car dealerships are in financial trouble and having trouble keeping good mechanics so I'm concerned about their ability to troubleshoot and repair those flaws. Wonder whether that Cutter Aviation is experiencing the same issues.
So, I resolve to be a hard-nosed customer and not accept, meaning pay for, the new car until I do a thorough inspection AND thorough test drive. After you accept a new vehicle you have very little leverage to encourage the dealer to pay attention to your problem(s). Sounds like he same applies to aircraft dealers.
You know those bolts that like hold the plane together? We are going to go ahead and tighten some of those!!
Which is why, in the Navy when (even old planes) are transferred between like commands, when one would expect maintenance was all the same and reliable, the accepting command essentially takes the new (to them) aircraft apart, documents all parts , modifications and discrepancies, fixes everything and puts it all back together (obviously) before it is flown. And they always find problems in planes that are working just fine. You think every other maintenance department is a bunch of knuckleheads!
@@JediOfTheRepublic
Not at all. As a new pilot you want some old reliable that's been well serviced. You want something that people have taking good care of fore a decade or two already so you know well and good what you're getting into.
Often times it’s the parts that lead up to the accident that get neglected. Thanks for diving in to uncover that information, it can help explain the “why” part.
Exactly... The NTSB report might as well have said the probable cause was 'hit the ground'... Doesn't look like they worked that hard over 2 years to come to the result they did
Another excellent video Hoover. I agree, the lack of communication with the CFI is concerning. Also, I remember how hard it was for me to say "you know what, I'm not good enough to fly in this weather" and either drive, or just make the trip for another day. One of the most important "abilities" a good pilot should have is admit your own weaknesses. There is no shame in saying "I'm not ready for this flight" or "I need a co-pilot for this aircraft until I'm more efficient with it". Unfortunately it sounds to me that someone lost their life because he was in over his head not only with the aircraft, but also the weather.
Thanks again for your ability to analyze a tragic accident, while maintaining the dignity of all those involved.
Do you know why they call him Hoover?
Because he sucks 😮 Any content provider that sits there second-guessing the NTSB doesn't have nearly the amount of information the NTSB does, additionally they lack the experience the NTSB has no other investigative outfit has ever done better than the NTSB,😊 so quit kissing Hoover's ass.😢
I don’t think that’s what this video did at all. It denounces the guy for having spent extra time getting instruction to his level he felt safe.
It denounces him for likely having a right seat instructional pilot for too long. . And this pilot did a damn good job flying the flight all the way til the airplane wouldn’t get on heading while coupled. I don’t really see how that was the pilot getting in over his head . It’s easy to get behind the airplane when something fails and there’s maint. records of their being a trim issue.
I also think it was borderline negligent for the NTSB (which normally does a great job) not to have spoken to instructors to find out more I’d expect more from them the explanations of these accidents help to teach the rest of us and keep us safer.
I personally think single engine , single pilot IFR is asking for trouble but people pull lt off a lot (until they don’t.) a lot can go wrong that’s for sure.
Except that he clearly and repeatedly states he doesn't have all the same information that the NTSB has. Hoover then explains that this information which the public lacks could be why NTSB has come to the conclusions it has. I see it as calling out NTSB for not providing the information needed to prevent second guessing.@@FSEVENMAN
@@jeffp862 That is true. Too bad there is just not a lot of information as to how the autopilot was actually working (or not). I know I've gotten behind the aircraft a few times myself. I think we all do at one point or another. Just seems to me he needed the extra help just based on history. But alas, we will probably never know. Tragedy regardless.... and the NTSB simply didn't do their usual thorough job here.
@@FSEVENMANNo, oh hell no. Lots of red flags here, that was not mentioned by the NTSB!
WOW, the extra information you provided about that pilot is so much more valuable the anything the NTSB says.
You look like Steve-O's brother that made better life choices...
Ha ha 😂
What's messed up is that I've thought something similar.
No shit..😅
OMG, I will never be able to unsee that.
Man come on bro…. 😂
Hiya Hoover! New member here! I absolutely adore this channel. I'm not a pilot but I find the process of flying cool and intense and the stories are so often sad. Thank you for making flying available for everyone ❤✈
Awesome, thank you! Welcome!
I really respect your presentation and thoroughness in these pilot debriefs Hoover. I'm not a pilot but can understand what you are saying by how you explain it. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This fellow is by far the best in aircraft videos, no unnecessary BS in order to make the video longer for more revenue.
If you like this, look up Blancolirio.
You don't like blancolirio?
Though part of me hopes he might make compilation videos of these shorter breakdowns in the future. Similar to what Rex’s Hangar has started doing with his older aviation history videos. Because
1. It’s simply more convenient because RUclips’s playlist function has been buggy for ages and it doesn’t seem like they’ll be fixing that any time soon
2. More revenue, which Hoover wholeheartedly deserves
He’s quite critical of private pilots.
In my experience after 40 years of practice in mental health, Zoloft (sertraline) is most commonly prescribed these days for generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder. If he was an anxious guy, that could explain why he felt safer flying with an instructor. Thank you for saying that not everyone is cut out for flying. I flew as a private pilot for 25 years, but I had a non-flying incident that left me with PTSD and that drastically affected my self-confidence. Although I had great treatment and rarely have problems anymore, I have grounded myself from flying. I never want to be in a situation where anxiety interferes with my judgment and I end up putting people’s lives at risk. It’s really just that simple. I do miss it, though.
Another sad example of buying too much airplane for the skill level and confidence level at the time. Great post! Very informative, and is why I follow you and others to really learn what happened and what I can do to NOT have you talk about me!
How was this a too much airplane situation? What about this airplane was too much for the pilot?
I absolutely agree with your observation, too much airplane-too little skill. This gentleman obviously had money to spare...I wonder if during his time of flying any of the instructors had the guts to tell the guy (because he is rich) 'you know, piloting may really not be for you' but riding with a professional pilot would be in your best interest. The instructor(s) have to live with their choices
I think John Kennedy Jr died in very much the same way. Too much aircraft for his ability.
@@jeffp862 Faster planes give you less time to aviate (saturation mentioned in the video.) Most training is done is slower (cheaper to operate) planes with more room for error, and you get used to that extra comfort of time. Helicopters are kind of the opposite. Visibility is generally worse. More technology "glass" panels can be a burden/distraction versus traditional panels. Just like modern car.
@@jeffp862isn't that what they are saying?
Hoover, I think you are “spot on” with your conclusions on this crash. Sounds like that pilot was not secure in his abilities and probably shouldn’t have become a pilot.
As a non pilot, I really appreciate your videos Hoover. I charter quite a bit, and the more I learn, the more I conduct due diligence on both the aircraft, and the pilots that I fly with… Outstanding videos sir.
Also, if your looking for what I think would be a GREAT VIDEO TO COVER, check out the crash of Matt Axtell who was a dear friend of mine who died in a plane crash, along with the pilot who owned the aircraft and a ranch hand. Matt was from Aspen, and the circumstances are absolutely unreal! You will see for yourself if you choose to look into this. The accident aircraft was ALSO A PIPER PA-46.
I know a fellow who is without question a narcissist; these are people who project confidence in their competence but who do not actually possess competence. It is all about projecting the illusion of competence. Some years ago he wanted to obtain a pilot's license and went about training with an instructor friend of his. He flew many times with the instructor but never soloed and eventually gave up when it came time to be responsible for himself. He invited me several times to fly with him and his instructor but I had no illusions about the danger involved despite the presence of an instructor, whom I also didn't trust. Indeed, on one of his flights, he told me after landing he ran out of gas taxiing in, which confirmed the low opinion I already held for his instructor. Imagine missing the approach/going around and then running out of gas while low and slow. The instructor eventually obtained employment with Alaska Airlines...
The NTSB has become ineffective at their job, unfortunately. Another great show, thanks.
I always learn something on your channel. Thanks for the brutally honest opinions.
Too often, pilot error is glazed over.
Coming from a small airport that has had several crashes, every one of them was avoidable. They were attributed to pilot error in some form or another. The members who sat in the fixed base and didn't speak up in some situations didn't help either. I believe in "see something, say something".
But unfortunately that does not apply to many of my peers.
See something even if you don't think it is relevant. An investigator needs as much information as possible. Sometimes the most unlikely factor turns out to be significant.
I was up with my son in a PA28-181 (Archer) and when we would try to land, coming across the numbers, the yoke would snap back toward me and the plane would quickly pitch up. We tried twice and aborted both landings. We double and triple verified that the autopilot was off, none of the white arrows illuminated. So I made the call to fly back to our home airport 20 minutes away that has 8000' runways and emergency equipment. While we were on the way back, I told my son to pull the A/P breaker. When he did, the yoke snapped back and the plane pitched up, but it resolved the problem and we landed normally. The root cause was found to be a warranty issue with the new autopilot where it was actually engaging in the background and adjusting trim. Was glad we just got out of the pattern to work on the issue.
Your analysis of current and past accidents is excellent. On my one F-15D flight over twenty years ago my pilot (who was also my boss) conducted a thorough pre-flight brief despite it only being an "incentive" flight. His total pro attitude has stuck with me to this day and your de-briefs are a joy to watch. After getting my private ticket almost twenty years I will be getting back into the cockpit after a long absence. Every time I watch one of your de-briefs I file it away for the day (soon I hope) when I get back to what I've loved for so long. G. Harrel, USAF (ret.)
Thank you for your work.
I grew up the son of a USAF aircraft accident investigator who after his service went to the FAA. I find what you do very helpful and enlightening.
THANK YOU.
I do like your attention to detail and objectivity. I used to fly out of Biggin Hill (UK) - our instructors, when asked about cloud, simply replied "DON'T". The message was very clear.
Spitfire or Hurricane?
@@JB-yb4wn I wish, I wish
So in other words you didn't fly much!
@@sawyerhja
They also had Sopwith Camels, that airport has been around since 1916.
@@paulazemeckis7835 Cessna 172, Cherokee. Great fun
Excellent analysis. Why the NTSB doesn’t mention what you said is mind boggling. Maybe those investigators at the GA level don’t really fly and don’t really understand the situation.
GA is probably where the DEI hires go.
@GaryL3803 FFS really? Take the racism elsewhere buddy
@@nickrails Really? Just a fact.
@@GaryL3803 How is 'probably' a fact? How is positing an unfounded evidence free opinion using the word 'probably' suddenly transform into a 'fact'?
@@GaryL3803Yeah, funny how until about a month ago nobody had heard of DEI and now all the racists (looking directly at YOU) blame it on everything. Last year it was wokeness, year before that it was CRT. You just can't be happy unless you're flying your Klan flag.
It’s always a joyful moment when I realize a new Hoover video has dropped! You have the tightest and most compelling analyses of anybody looking at GA accidents. Great work.
You are 100% correct. It’s good that he recognized that he needed lots of instruction, but he may be one of those individuals that relied too much on the instructor, didn’t apply himself and had an aircraft he can afford, but way too much airplane for his abilities. I’m a firm believer in utilizing MS Flight Simulator or X Pilot at home to learn to safely and comfortably fly the airplane in all modes. Repeating tasks over and over again until you can routinely do what’s necessary for a flight you are about to take is extremely useful. He could have practiced using the autopilot in the simulator and flying the identical IFR flight on the simulator beforehand. Too many pilots are too lazy, proud or stubborn to practice on a simulator. It’s so critical for a pilot to thoroughly understand his systems, whether it’s a 172 or a Gulfstream.
I saw the same thing on the Motorcross track. So many rich middle-aged guys with all the gear and none of the experience. If you don't work your way up through the classes you're gonna have a really bad time. The difference obviously is you can just step off of a bike. Once you're in the sky, that's it until you safely land again.
Good analogy!
As a mental health professional, I believe you are just scratching the surface. It would be helpful to obtain a thorough background history of the pilot's education, employment etc. Zoloft is an antidepressant medication used also for anxiety and OCD. The pilot had the $$$$ means to overspend on instruction and acquire an expensive airplane. I see a likely system failure allowing the pilot to move along the piloting continuum and get signed-off? Was this a common element in the pilots functional abilities? How did the pilot acquire the $$$$ to afford something that led to their demise? A collaboration with Dan Gryder might shed some more light on the story?
The top lady over the NTSB only has a moped license, No flight experience at all, I have no faith in what they do anymore! Thank You for all you do Hover....
There are a lot of highly trained, intelligent women who would do this job, waaaaay better than J.H. What is she doing in this critical position?
The NTSB also looks at moped accidents. - and a few other things that move.
This is incredible to me. I don't understand why they would put someone with no applicable qualifications in that position.
@@sarahalbers5555 that is an excellent question.
Seriously??!!!
I started flying 3 years ago, I soled almost 2 years ago, I have over 135 hours and I am about to take my PPL. My case is a bit different as I had to obtain a SODA for monocular vision and I did this during peak COVID... yeah FUN. Couple that with funding issues and 2 different flight schools and now you begin to see the picture.
Just because someone has 100+ hours before they take a PPL exam does not make them a bad pilot, there may be other mitigating circumstances that alter the "normal" path.
I'm glad you said that. Alot of people solo earlier because they're maybe a fast learner . Soloing at 60hrs or 9hrs is not a way to judge whetherr or not someone would be a good pilot. Pilots with thousands of hours just make bad decisions. This looks more like a pilot who got tasks saturated and wasn't proficient flying without auto pilot. Not a case of him taking 60hrs to Solo. Everyone has limits no them before moving to the next
Thanks Hoover. I appreciate the information you dig up to share with us pilots still alive.
Clear, concise and straightforward explanation. That’s one thing I like about your channel.
As a CFI I have had to tell one person flying just wasn’t their thing. I had to have a talk with a new hire lear copilot many years ago that I didn’t think flying was their thing and had to let them go. I want to play the guitar but I am tone deaf and have no rhythms! I knew when to quit trying! Quitting something you just don’t have the required aptitude for is no shame! Its a demonstration of your intelligence! Piloting requires a specific set of aptitudes to master and many people don’t have them! Instructors must see this and have a frank discussion with this type of student! Think about all the passengers he or she has the potential to kill beside himself!
The NTSB did a miserable job investigating this accident as they do with many light aircraft accidents! The FAA hasn’t had the balls to change the required minimum hours and specific training requirements for the PPL. I only have 600 hrs instructing as most of my time is, 18,000 hours is in jets but it was enough to see that the required minimums are inadequate for today’s environment! For instance I required all students to accomplish the 180dg power off landing a minimum of 3 times successfully before solo! How do you make a successful emergency-landing without these skills. If your instructor hasn’t taken you out and night and made you do steep turns until you experience vertigo you are not prepared to fly at night! If you haven’t experienced density altitude, call a flight school in a mountainous area and request specific training for mountain flying! I use to take my 150 aerobat to Big Bear 8000’ on a cross country from sea level! The expressions-on students faces when they took off at 8000’ was one off bewilderment no matter how much preparation they had! That experience of just barely getting airborne before the end of the 6000’ runway was cemented in their brain forever!
I would never fly IFR in a single engine aircraft unless I had a Freeway underneath me and 2000’ ceiling with 5 miles visibility and no possibility of icing. Me and my family and friends lives are worth more than that! Thats a interstate freeway not a road!
If you're grounded for freaking Zoloft then the system is utterly broken. SSRI's are ridiculously common prescriptions and that stigma is stupid. Your surgeon or an structural engineer can be on 5 different antidepressants and it does not impair their work performance but somehow it stops you from being able to fly a private aircraft? Being untreated for clinical depression would make you a lot more dangerous behind the yoke than a proper stable medication regimen. The stress is no more extreme on the pilot. The aviation industry as a whole is oddly ignorant. They refuse to acknowledge that depression can be effectively treated and thus force pilots to go without treatment or risk their jobs, thus leading to even more dangerous situations (i.e. Germanwings)
Great analysis, Hoover. I can't understand why the NTSB report did not highlight the grossly disproportionate solo hours to instructional hours in this pilot's history, nor the fact that this was his FIRST solo IFR flight in the aeroplane. It seems like they missed the bleedin' obvious here, the elephant in the room, and should have followed up with his instructors as to the pilot's competence, or lack of it.
"The elephant in the room" is an excellent term to use here. What level of NTSB incompetence does it take to miss such a monstrous pachyderm?!
I think everyone grossly don't understand that a low time solo pilot shouldn't be flying a Meridian. Everyone keeps glossing over that important detail.
Going to get worse...FAA higher ing handicapped controlers; those with audio,visual mental disabilities
Well then, I'm qualified! I already wear an orthopedic hat. Maybe it's time for a career change for me. Thanks for the tip!@@mikearakelian6368
@@mikearakelian6368 🤣🤣Don't buy that silly conspiracy stuff, and think before you believe something you read or hear. The FAA hires more people than controllers. I did business with an agency that had a vision impaired receptionist who was amazing - mind like a trap and could remember everyone's name, number and office number -everyone in the office and the clients loved her. I've also been to businesses who had hearing impaired staff that did just fine. And there are plenty of jobs that can be handled by functionally autistic and developmentally disabled persons. Jumping to conclusions that diversity hiring like that will lead to hiring blind and deaf air traffic controllers is just ridiculous.
Very respectfully presented and instructional. Helps keep us all aware on good decision making. Thank you
You are without doubt the most intelligent aviator on youtube. This is earned and you have not even taken the audience into the fighter jet! Before then we will be blown away by a ride in a commercial jumbo jet!
So much respect for the way you present your content. Can’t tell you how grateful I am for the way you treat the victims you discuss in your debriefs. Even if it’s the fault of the pilot/poor decision making, you still show so much respect. I appreciate that, very much. I appreciate you, Hoover. Keep it up brother!
Thanks Hoover, well presented documentary.
Extraordinary. An accident looking for somewhere to happen.
With a 2.6 million dollar plane, and taking the kind of pharmaceuticals that could seriously impair your judgement. Just why?
One of the best analyses of an accident I’ve watched. There are often segments of accidents that seem to have been glossed over almost as though the key outcomes of the investigation are set and then dictate the report. Like pilot saturation the key pints swamp the various points at which the incident could have been prevented. Sympathies to the pilot and their family.
I appreciate all your videos! As a beginner pilot I am trying to learn everything I can. Your videos are very educational! Thank you for the detailed explanation of each video! I appreciate how respectful you are to the families of the deceased.
A bad tradesman always blames his tools.
Great video as always. I feel sorry for the pilot, a $2.5mill new plane full of problems and blowing your confidence in it and not even 50 hours on the airframe! A runaway trim with 600 feet base alone is a scary thought never mind instruments going blank for a guy that had 7 hours solo in that A/C. The points you make that are not within the NTSB report are highly relevant and a little disappointing on their front. Spending so much on investigations but skipping out on highly relevant factors. Keep up the great videos, so much to learn and gain from them.
The reason I really like watching your vids, you seem to dig deep and think things out before you release your video. Thank you
I worked at an FBO that did flight training. We had one woman (mid 50s) start on her private and her original instructor left for a different job, so another very competent instructor went up with her. After a couple of flights with her, she almost killed them both on a takeoff. He told her to stay on the ground if she wanted to live, and that was the last we saw her. You, as an instructor, HAVE GOT to make that call when it is necessary. It should be possible, maybe after consultation with an FAA Rep, to invalidate a student ticket.
Truth! My dad was a Mayo Clinic trained Neurologist and did much research on Parkinson's disease and Epilepsy. He was such a a horrible driver, I learned to drive pretty early on for self preservation.
He never got past step one in the basic training manual.
We all have different skill sets, I realize I would never be able to fly, either.
Thanks for your insights,Hoover.I can just imagine the desperation of the poor pilot,after his autopilot failed to engage.By the way,flying Ifr in high performance aircraft,with non professional and or current ratings,is highly dangerous.For such expensive planes,It's a good safety measure to have a professional pilot by your side.Very sorry for his loss.My condolences to his family and friends.
I really enjoy your channel and your opinions on correct aviation process and procedures. I wish everyone on youtube had your passion on the topics there reviewing.
Such a clear, disciplined debrief! I find it remarkable that the NTSB dealt with it in the way you describe. It suggests a failure on their part to look behind the obvious surface of things. It's a sad story.
Thank you!
Love this channel. Great work, as always!
Just wanted to say that I appreciate your tactful and respectful yet still honestly probing approach here.
Someone is running cover for someone else. This is ever more the real main task of government.
The insurance company.
I Stand with NTSB 🎗️
@@gregorybrennan8539 Maybe she is as sparingly competent in her life as NTSB demonstrates it is, and feels threatened by someone expecting better. Or she is a government employee.
Nah, I've seen this before with NTSB reports on small-plane crashes, with only one or two passengers. We're used to the thorough investigation they do with commercial passenger planes and turbo fans, but they often seem to lack the time or resources for small plane crashes, which is a real pity that should be addressed. Not everything is a conspiracy/cover-up, most of the time, it's just incompetence and/or lack of time.
You can not close an investigation based on assumptions. If the pilot was unqualified it should explain why. That is their job. @@carlyellison8498
I continue to be impressed by the dedicated research you do as well as the factual, to the point presentation of the circumstances and conclusions which is extremely condusive to understanding what could/should have been done differently, and how we, as pilots can be aware of potential errors and pitfalls. I cannot express how valuable your insights have been - thank you once again !
Great to see another channel offering professional, respectful analysis of these often tragic incidents. It's you and JB for the best aviation news channels ❤🎉
2x tries and then scrap and reroute! Sad he did not take a step back and ask for help sooner! Hoover, you are so right, back to basics!!
Assuming the ILS detection electronics were working, which seems to be the case because his complaint was that it just was not coupling. He could have hand flown the ILS. Which Hoover briefly mentioned but should have been more important. He had an instrument rating, he was getting vectors to intercept.... I would think to pass an IFR check ride he would have had to demonstrate the ability to hand fly an ILS approach using the instruments and not depending on the autopilot.
That was a really good debrief very good thank you for sharing
Hoover your analysis of these accidents is incredibly useful. I am 64 years old and halfway through my instrument endorsement. All of these flight reviews continue to force me to prepare for all of the weather possibilities and also review my own capabilities. Thank you! Please keep the reviews coming.
have been binge-watching your awesome videos. It's great you keep them around 15 minutes and not longer like some other channels
Love your debrief Hoover. Thank you
You are so welcome!
As with learning to drive it sounds to me like the pilot was never gonna be in a position of being competent to fly without an instructor, sometimes you just have say "I ain't gonna ever grasp this" again nicely and compassionately explained hoover 👍
So many unanswered questions. You're 100% correct on this video.
Your reviews help me evaluate my own scenarios. Thank you
NTSB failing to do a thorough search in this incident is alarming. We need a complete report, not a roll of the dice on what to put in it or leave out.
A person has got to know their limitations.
That is probably the reason I'm alive today.
I've had my feelings hurt many times by caring people that were correct.
Had to pocket my ego and it hurt.
They were correct and I was not.
I didn't make the cut.
Pure and simple.
It can be difficult to get someone to know that they don't know when they think they do.
Same with me. I adore flying and really wanted to be a pilot, just recreationally. I quickly realized my skill set was lacking. I loved my job as a flight attendant, and stuck to my hobbies of diving and sailing instead.
One thing I knew I had issues with right away was with spatial orientation. The ocean is much more forgiving.
@@sarahalbers5555 - I am competent on just about anything I decide to tackle.
Covid blessed me with occasional seizures and brain fog.
Yep, I got skills.
Nope, I don't dare even get behind the wheel of a car anymore.
Do you want me as pilot in command?
Sigh...
Good debrief, appreciate your attention to detail, very insightful. Thanks for sharing.
Wow, i just want to say I appreciate your YT videos. I'm currently a student pilot and obsessed with watching your debriefings. Thank you for your break downs and educating future and current pilots! I take note and learn a ton from these accidents.
Since there were documented issues with the trim, that were never resolved, why did you not feel that the problem may have returned and that it may have been the reason that the pilot was not able to maintain altitude? It also explains why he reported having lost control. I only have a little over 60 hours in a PA-28 but I have never been in a position (even when the weather turned bad) when I didn't feel I was in control and was maintaining the required altitude within +/- 100ft in my first few hours and then +/-50ft after about 15 hours. I'm convinced that despite the NTSB not finding a physical defect, there may well have been one present.
Not a bit surprised that one of our 3-letter agencies did a shoddy job.
Great unbiased analysis. Keep up the GREAT work. I am not a pilot, but your analysis and investigatory approach is unwavering.
he was starting to become overwhelmed.
Great review Hoover - bizarre how many questions remain unanswered. It’s too bad if he was in level flight out of the clouds you’d think he was almost going to make it but he must have been so mixed up he was doomed anyway.
Yeah, that is what is most disconcerting.
Hi Hoover, love the longer than usual video! This is such a tragedy; never should have happened. I’ve seen it before however where people with money assume that if they can buy something it gives them automatic license to use it. It’s a sort of blind arrogance to assume they just can’t fail. So sad.
You’re an amazing analyst! I appreciate your insight.
Always excellent debriefs, and videos.
Thank you.
Best aviation channel on RUclips
I was on a commercial flight today from GRR to ORD. As we were turning to line up on runway 01 (I am assuming 10R as we taxied across 01L going to the terminal. I looked out the window and saw and commercial airplane rough 1000 ft below us and within 2,000 ft on a converging course. I was surprised to say the least and not being on the intercom I don't know what the story was but our aircraft did not react and continued to turn to align with the runway. In such an airport what is the minimum separation on landing flights? As I last saw the other aircraft I am assuming he went under us at about a 30 degree crossing angle.
1000 feet is the minimum vertical separation at that altitude. Typically the controller will point out the traffic to the pilots though so that no one is surprised.
@@pilot-debrief I appreciate your answer. I was more concerned about the closeness and crossing flight paths.
ORD frequently uses parallel runways on both north (9L/27R+9C/27C) and south (10C/28C+10R/28L) of the terminal. What you may have seen is another aircraft being vectored to intercept a parallel runway from the opposite direction.
Side note: there is no 01L at ORD. You had likely crossed 04L, which is typical for the aircraft landing north of the terminal.
Hands down the best debrief channel. Hoover gets right to the point with clear concise commentary. Another tragic accident that need never have happened.
Another top notch incident review. Thanks Hoover!
Excellent discussion and thought process. This pilot was an accident waiting to happen, and happen it did. I agree that it appears the NTSB really didn't do a good job investigating this one.
Man thats sad
its been up for twenty seconds, you didn't even watch it yet
Thank you Hoover for digging into this tragedy, just so much going on for this to have happened and very unfortunate, again thank you for your insight.
You do great work, Cooper. Thank you.
What's up, Hoover. Greg Feith, John Goglia and Todd Curtis of The Flight Safety Detectives are really critical of the slopiness/inaccuracies in a lot of the NTSB's investigations and reports in a lot of their episodes. I think they might have covered this episode. Juan may have done it as well. You do an excellent job of filling holes in these reports a lot like the FSDs do. Single-pilot IFR is always risky. Condolences to the pilot and his family.
Not to mention everyone's favorite Dan Gryder. Lots of people hate him but I believe he is correct about the NTSB.
@@sjb3460 I like Dan. He's pretty wide-open. I like his candor.
Very perplexing lapses by NTSB. It isnt like this was a rush job with 2 years to complete investigation. Why were obvious things overlooked?
Who knows? I feel like we could have learned a lot more if they had talked to his past instructor(s).
What a mystery. Is NTSB hiding something?
@@TheFULLMETALCHEF That's what the cynic in me wonders. Either that, or they found enough to blame the pilot and did not want to commit further resources. Their findings were pilot lacked the skill to control the aircraft and did not report psychotropic meds, was using prohibited antihistamines, and that there was nothing obviously wrong with the aircraft. How much more money do you need to spend on the accident investigation? I think Hoover nailed it. Not everyone can be a baseball player. Not everyone can fly a 2-million-dollar high performance aircraft IFR.
@@msromike123 this just bugs me a lot.
@@TheFULLMETALCHEF lol
Hoover I agree, you broke down all aspects of this tragedy as thoroughly as you could. My condolences to his family. Strange how the NTSB seemed to drop the ball on this investigation.
So glad your back Hoover, I really enjoy your videos. I’m learning so much and I haven’t even started flight training.
I had close to 60 hours when I soloed but it had nothing to do with skill level… I enjoyed flying with my instructor and I wasn’t in a hurry and he was a WWII era T6 instructor and I was learning A TON.
Point being… Don’t go judging skill level by how many hours it takes to solo… Lots of dead pilots soloed quickly
This stood out to me as well. My experience as someone who knows a ton of student pilots similar to my age demographic-I’m older, have a family, a full time career not in aviation-is that many older students take longer to solo because flight training is inconsistent and constantly disrupted by life scheduling issues. This has nothing to do with skill level or the possibility that a pilot should not have become a pilot.
It’s a lot different from training when you’re in your 20s, maybe in the military, and getting training 5 days a week through a rigid program. That’s not the reality of private instruction for PPLs. No idea if this pilot fit that demographic but it’s possible.
Still, I was shocked that he only had 7 hours of solo instrument time. And it is definitely weird that 60% of his hours were dual. For someone like that, the Malibu was a terrible plane. I’m a fan of Hoover but I wonder if Hoover also misses this critical factor: the pilot simply bought himself too much airplane for his skill level.
@@neilsingh5311Exactly… flying for enjoyment… Not rushing to get rid of the instructor and build hours… Quality not quantity.
I have one goal in my flying… Surviving it… Everything after that is gravy.
Was it really instructional time (the 60 percent) or was it having a qualified right seat pilot. Logged as instructional time
@@jeffp862 Valid point.
That point stood out to me too. Hover is not always right. That point soloing at 60 hours is not a way to judge it. So there are no dead pilots who soloed at 9hrs or 30hrs. . Hover starting to sound cocky to me. Like many pilots who thinks they're better than pilots who takes longer to PPL. Young man made a mistake not knowing his limits flying a plane that he wasn't proficient in.
Really makes one wonder as to the validity of the reports that the NTSB does eventually release on accident conclusions. Thanks to you and Dan Gryder we are able to have objective analysis from real world pilots. More importantly the educational value that you and Dan present is very much appreciated.
They have no authority. They can only recommended suggestions to the FAA. So most of the NTSB isnt even aviators. I understand they do other accidents but they dont take it very seriously. They are like a typical agency they only tell you what they want to know. Everything is politics unfortunately.
I know of one accident that a contributing factor was a utility pole having been recently (within months) extended 10 to 15 ft. The accident airplane struck this new pole and broke it off damaging the wing and causing the airplane to roll, , the original pole at the end of the runway remained next to it and was untouched .
A newly built factory had required this stronger / longer utility pole which was at the departure end of the runway. It was not mentioned in the NTSB crash report as a factor at all . Had they NOT hit this pole they likely (once airborn) would have gained airspeed and altitude and not crashed. It was IMO a direct factor in the crash.( Airport was 4B8 ) I’ve always thought the NTSB did an amazing job with investigations . These 2 IMO are lacking relevant information.
Thanks for this deep-dive into all of the facts (discovered) contributing to this accident. We often read of these seemingly “falling out of the sky” incidents but never hear of the NTSB report outcomes without a search. I’m a SCUBA diver and entirely agree with your conclusions re: never taking this specific trip solo in the first place.
Great deep dive. Thank you!
Is the NTSB full of DEI too?
My experience with the NTSB is that they don’t seem to thoroughly investigate GA accidents the way they do Part 135/121 accidents. If it doesn’t make national news, who cares? Sad, but I believe true.
GA?
@@K1OIK General Aviation or private aircraft. Part 135/121 is basically commercial or airline traffic.
@@griam7641 you are so hip and cool to use GA instead of being clear.
@@K1OIK It's a super common term within aviation. It seems the problem here is you.
@@fkcoolers2669 Tell me did you hear Hoover use any of these "simple common terms? Hoover appeals to everyone, using terms like GA, TOGA, CRM,, GA etc. is the poster trying to be hip and cool.
Thanks for the video Hoover.
I like how this channel exposes the shortfalls of the reports.