I was always taught in various courses to have my foot on the rear brake when stopped momentarily, displaying the brake light to those behind, and to have the bike in gear ... so the left foot goes down. If, as in the video, it is a fairly long stop I don't wanna wear the clutch out so I put the right foot down. Right foot down is the usual for me. Great point made regarding the camber of the road ... that caught me out decades ago!
As ever, a well thought out and intelligent presentation, thank you. For me, the “left foot down” technique should be the default, and if it means doing the “Hendon Shuffle”, that’s fine, nothing wrong with it. Starting off again with the right foot down, by releasing the front brake while simultaneously twisting the throttle makes things unnecessarily complicated, particularly on an uphill gradient ( which you may not have appreciated when coming to a stop!). And even more problematic in wet and/or cold conditions. Yes, there are situations like adverse camber where you will be obliged to put the right foot down, but out of necessity, not choice. So I will continue to do my “little dance” at stops most of the time, I’m not worried about getting laughs from “ advanced” riders 45 years after getting my first bike! Thanks again and keep up the great work!
IAM observer and daily commuter with my bike as my only transport here: it's yet another case of "it depends". Traffic light I have just seen turn red? Right foot and neutral. Traffic light I cannot determine time/phase? Right foot but keep in gear for at least 10 seconds. Any sort of filtering? Left foot ONLY: I may need to set off slowly or f'ing quick, depending on how traffic responds to the situation and having the ability to go quick and dedicate my right hand to focus only on the throttle is what I need. With associates, I always try to encourage using any foot that feels comfortable but to become proficient in all methods: left down, right down, both down or even at times to balance with no feet down, do all checks and then move off. Mostly because I want people to stop doing the "rush up to the give way then BRAKE", more use "plan to stop, look to go"
If you are short and ride in a country like the UK and Australia the camber of the road makes the right foot a better foot to put down to reach the ground. If you are normal height or have decently long legs no doubt this doesn't matter. No way would I put my left foot down all the time because I'd end up dropping my bike. I have also ridden for 35 years. There's no such thing as a right way except for a given individual under their own circumstances.
I prefer to put the right foot down. Mainly to be sure I'm in first gear. I change to neutral and check the neutral light, then change to 1st and let the clutch out a bit to make sure I can pull away without stalling. Then I can change to the rear brake.
A good tip for learners is to slightly tilt your head before you stop towards the side of the bike you want to put your foot down and the bike will lean in that direction!
I ride cycles with toe straps. Tilting your head is a must know for balance, especially at slow speed. Have used this technique riding scooters at slow speeds.
Like your thinking. As a rider of a taller, heavier adventure bike (with hill-hold), I'm always considering the fall-away of the outside carriageway when caming to a stop, it's sometimes steeper, so in those circumstances better option can be the brake foot down - would be better if I was two inches taller. An increasing issue is being shunted from the rear. Drivers prairie-dogging their phones in busy peak-hour traffic, (I tap the rear brake when I'm stopped in traffic, or at lights and cross walks and keep an eye on the heads of the approaching drivers, having an escape route planned).
Excellent video, thank you. May I add my 2 cents? There may be physical reasons to use one or the other leg when putting your foot down. I'm an old geezer and the left knee is no longer in pristine condition... I tend to put my right foot down. I just got myself an older RT, yet it does have ABS, linked and power assisted brakes. These big boxers are an acquired taste and the linked, power assisted brakes makes them rather different. The first 500 miles or so were a bit of a disaster. Yet by now I'm used to both brakes being linked and power assisted. I tend to use the footbrake much more than on my other bikes, when you press a bit harder the front brake will be activated as well. Probably not the right way, it suits me. I believe that is important: put left, right or both feet down does not matter that much, as long as you do what makes you feel safe and comfortable.
Always keep your brake foot up - yeah! I'm with you on this one. There are going to be times when you're going to want to change down to 1st or neutral while stood still, and there are even going to be times when the road camber will dictate which foot gives the better stability. Point being, riding a bike is dynamic, and it is up to the rider to use whichever foot feels most comfortable to stabilise the bike. There are even times when putting both feet down is preferable. For my part, I ride a Honda VFR1200x Crosstourer which has an automatic DCT gearbox, so my left foot is the foot of choice to put down in most situations, but that doesn't mean I won't use my right foot to stabilise the bike when needed.
I’m currently doing the IAM training and have to say it is really good but …… I’ve been riding since I was eleven and cover about 12k miles a year, so I’m a reasonable rider you could say. I’m picking up tips from IAM but it does feel a bit like riding a motorbike has been turned into a science.
I owe a massive thanks to my instructor for my first scooter-based CBT for his persistence in getting me to break a fifty-year cycling habit of left foot up, right foot down. I asked him why it was such a big deal - he turned, smiled, and said I’d be back in a matter of months to redo all this training on a motorcycle, he could just tell I wasn’t going to ride a scooter on L-plates for long. His intuition was spookily spot on! Ok, it was three years with lockdown, but I was back for geared bike CBT and again six month later for my full motorcycle licence. I still consider myself a very new rider, so have stuck with brake foot up, but yeah, a couple of steep cambers have nearly caught me ought… Great insight into biking mindset, twenty minutes well spent! Thank you 👍
I’m an Advanced rider and I have also done Bikesafe, the head of GMP took me out and told me to always cover the back brake if in N or 1st so I always keep my left foot down when waiting in traffic, he also said that you should always know what gear you are in all the time, this is from a Police Advanced Rider
Good to hear a sensible, balanced view on this subject rather than the left foot down only doctrine. I use the rear brake for control and balance at low speeds often making the final stop on the back brake. But, there are many times that I prefer to hold the bike on the front brake with my right foot down. Due to a fairly recent back injury killing my left L5 nerve, I have a very week left calf, ankle, foot and toes. This makes holding a heavy tourer on the balance point for long periods with the left foot difficult, particularly on heavily cambered roads, hills etc. I enjoy your videos and I have strongly recommended your channel to my youngest who is currently on a 125cc between his CBT and Direct Access Modules.
The issue of those riders who are Right-Side dominant is often ignored,perhaps unwittingly. Particularly with larger machines,I feel it is far more beneficial for a rider to come to a "confident"stop,which allows them to make full use of their observation skills and prepare for the next manouvere.Left-Side dominant riders can enjoy the benefits without worrying on that score. As regards the "Hendon Shuffle",I wonder if the British Made Motorcycle tradition of Left Side Brake & Right Side Gears may well have influenced that particular waltz ?
Stopping, holding front brake, right foot down, into neutral, release clutch, left foot down, , foot brake on, release front brake then reverse procedure I'd heard referred to as the Hendon Shuffle about thirty years ago. It's best if riders learn to pull away and release front brake at same time though on very steep gradients rear brake might help.
When I do a hill start using front brake; I tend to slowly release the clutch until the biting point is holding the bike, then release the brake and feed in the power. My bike has 165hp. I find this is the best way to prevent accidentally accelerating too hard because of whisky throttle.
To be honest, I've yet to come to a junction where I have to put my right foot down. It may have happened elsewhere, e.g. Hardknott Pass. But that may be due to long legs. In most situations at traffic lights I stop with both brakes and bring up the revs in the friction zone to add smoothness because there's power to the rear wheel. Very often I will do the Hendon Shuffle. I can move my right foot off the brake and to the ground at the same time as moving my left foot off the ground and and putting it in neutral. I then flip them back again simultaneously. It takes half a second. If rammed from behind I would rather be dragging the rear wheel than digging the front wheel in. Being in gear doesn't help anything because I'm not going to be able to maintain the friction zone and pull away. If you are in neutral and on the front brake but let go of it on being rammed then the bike really will shoot away and you'll probably end up on the bonnet of the car. On the rear brake you slow the situation down and have slightly more control potentially resulting in less injury. Obviously this all depends on the force of the impact. Very often police are rammed from a short distance by someone trying to push through rather than rammed at speed. Remember the police as an institution has decades of experience of being rammed. The Hendon Shuffle is with good reason. Does that mean you should always do it? No, of course not. It depends on circumstances. Sometimes it just depends on what you feel like doing because as long as you're skilled enough through practice to safely achieve several available options in the circumstances, you could reasonably do any of them. Is it necessary to do the Hendon Shuffle? No. Is it daft to laugh it off? Yes, probably.
Thanks for good video. It would be fair to say I give thought to my riding 🤔😅 When I did my CBT & DAS I made conscious effort to default to left foot down unless camber or other factors in play. I was keen to not be marked down for improper use of controls for DAS & tests. I default rode using the Hendon Shuffle....Although mainly consistent in application it took a fair bit of thought & was initially concerned it might cause my mind to not focus enough elsewhere. Despite my disciplined shuffle moves ... nobody ever commented positively (examiners or instructors). I now use right foot down a bit more albeit I still tend to favour left foot down...(subject to camber etc). On advanced test I used Hendon Shufile ..BUT also did right foot down at times.. to show I could be flexible. Again my footwork not commented on. 😅 Hill starts using front brake are rarely discussed(or taught at DSA level).Well worth practicing to avoid unwanted moments when caught by surprise. As for paddling out of a closed junction with vision blockers etc.....I prefer both feet up albei only if safe & workable. Anyway....enough ramblings from this thinking biker for now. Ride Safe 👍🏍
I’ve only just started to watch your channel because after five years of not riding bikes, but had been riding bikes for 12 years before I stopped riding I just want to be a little bit more responsible and see if I can refresh my brain for bike riding and at least for of your videos I’ve watched has helped me I love what you doing. Thank you very much.
The foot I put down, is the foot that I’m comfortable with, I’m 69 now and ride a sports bike, I tend to put my right foot down, as I find it easier to get that foot back up on the peg, rather than my left foot, I can still safely cover the front brake with my right hand!!
Never thought about putting the right foot down based on the camber of a hill so I’ll try it… I do put both feet down every now & then, for instance when stopping at a level crossing while a train is passing by….
I would consider myself an advanced rider and I could only agree to every thing presented in this video, great advise to all novice riders, one rule does not suite all circumstances, you have to be thinking all the time and anticipate and adapt to the environment as to which foot to use, when performing you license test I would agree follow your instructors advise, once you have past you license test and as you become more experienced you can start to experiment with the advise given in this video, it was all wonderful advise great video!
As a fellow instructor on CBT/ DAS/the DVSA ERS and others - I really like the way you have made clear distinction between actions of a new rider / experienced! Very clear instructions with some nice awareness of other tupes of riders - thank you :
Interesting to hear how it’s been taught in a different country. In the Netherlands I learned to put the right foot down by default. Reason is so you have your left foot on the gear lever so you can go away instantly when you need to. That was over 20 years ago so could be it changed by now. Also, most of our country is flat so I don’t need the brakes when I’ve stopped, only in rare occasions. I usually do a hill start on the front brake then. So I was intrigued to see that in other countries the left foot is favoured. I guess it makes sense when you stop on inclines most of the times so you can relax your right hand.
THanks for the video, I learned UK circles don't flow well. Washington, D.C. has many circles, and they work great. Sadly, that's the only thing that works in DC
Hi as a senior motorcyclist you refired to the Hendon shuffle this is a technique you have to adopt when you ride a older bike with the brake on the left and the gears on the right. like you said makes no sense on a modern bike. The Police were riding Triumph 650 Saint bikes back then.and Velocette 200le ( noddy) bikes.
@Steve00 Alt yes, at CBT/DAS level thats usual, as we dont want new riders "grabbing a handful" when cornering and putting the bike on the floor. But this needs to be developed post test, as braking in bends with the front is fine and sometimes necessary if done correctly. Its not that you cant use the front brake in a bend, its HOW you use it in a bend! Ride safe
I remember we had a discussion about this when I queried what you were doing when I was riding behind you quite a while back. I recognise those roads, particularly the awkward camber one! A good video, I vary depending on the situation.
I like to put my right foot down but i hook the brake lever under the velcro on my boot so the right foot is down on road and the back brake is engaged (though not very strongly). Left foot on the footpeg and free to put the bike in Neutral and engage 1st gear when the lights are about to change. Best of both worlds, but not advised for new riders!
I only ever use the rear at a standstill, nothing to do with my training, but to allow the front disc'd to cool down evenly, holding the bike on the front risks warping them. If in stop start traffic, I'd sooner use my feet or a little clutch depending on the gradient of the road. I've never replaced a pair of discs due to warpage, and at up to £600 a pair I don't plan on changing my method anytime soon.
I'm I'm noob... around 6 months so far on a cbt. I almost always put my left foot down and keep the bike in 1st gear when stationary, to enable me to move quickly if need be. Being in neutral with my right foot down, means I'm likely holding the front break, slowing a sudden move off, especially if on a hill, because I will need to switch feet and change gear, and turn thr throttle, rather than just go with small hand and foot movement, noswapoing involved. I feel much safer and steadier this way. Other than a bit of a rest, can someone please tell me the benefits of being in neutral at a stop? I'm aware I could be missing some important information here!!!
I was awarded Silver for my last RoSPA re-test, and I was not best chuffed. The examiner told me that it wasn't a Gold because I hadn't used the rear brake when coming to a halt, and that by using the front brake only the bike could nose dive. I was riding a GS at the time with telelever suspension, so really no chance of that, but I didn't argue the point. I prefer right foot down because I have a gammy left leg, and feel way more confident supporting the bike on the right side. I have my next re-test this year, so I will have to practice left foot down all over again, or stopping on the rear brake and then putting my right foot down smoothly. Always lots to work on. Enjoyable vid btw.
Thank you for your comment. Sorry to hear of your less than pleasing result. I’m not a rospa examiner, but if I were, knowing your reasons for how you use the brakes, I wouldn’t mark you down as long as you could use rear if really necessary and your thought process/ explanation made sense whilst preserving safety. All the best
I've been watching all of the videos for weeks, I'm doing my advanced riders hopefully in Sept, I got the foot positions spot on, I love the corner videos and positions on the roads, Devon has many pot holes and gravel.
Been riding bikes for 50 years never really thought about what foot I put down ! but I ride bikes with both left and right gear change , on my vintage matchless do use more rear brake as the front brake is a little weak . Other bike is Thruxton 1200 with pretty good front brake so use the front most of the time (ABS and don't ride in wet ) rear is just used steady / stabilize bike going into a bend , don't think I use rear much in traffic . Seems odd to me so much is put on low speed handling , to me reading the road ahead and other road users is the skill bikers need , other thing is handling bike on bends Many panic when entering bend bit faster than intended and either go for brakes or go straight on ! I was lucky as teenager we had couple of older guys (in their 20's lol ) both had raced bloody quick on road taught me loads
Very helpful video. Beautifully and calmly answered my questions. Thank you. Returner rider after 30+ years who last rode a BSA B33 Combo and didn't have to worry about which foot!
I've been riding for about 3 weeks now and a lot of the "advanced" things you've mentioned I have already been doing, I don't think about which foot I have down too much but I just cater to the environment I'm in, granted I'm only on a 125cc so the bike is a lot lighter than the bigger bikes. I was told by my CBT instructor that I was a natural & as big headed as it sounds, I felt a lot more comfortable getting on a bike than I did in a car. I have currently had some really heavy winds recently and I feel that's been the only challenge as of now, just by how light I am and how light my bike is. Great video, always learning and picking up new things, safe riding.
It's not a black and white question of left foot/right foot. Riding a motorcycle is about anticipating your route, looking at immediate obstacles, such as the 'left-looking right-turner' but also having an eye on the further distance and observing potential hazards. Then there is gear choice and engine braking, (two-strokes excepted, but not so common these days), and an understanding of braking distances, road surface, lighting conditions and weather. Basically, riding at 10mph or less, it's rear brake only. In such conditions, front brake would only be used in an absolute emergency. And you might still end up doing a 90 degree lateral 'off'. If I'm waiting in traffic, I rarely engage Neutral unless it looks like a bit of a wait, in which case I want to conserve the strength in my clutch hand. Motorcycle clutches are minimally affected by this practice, whereas modern cars suffer more wear if you keep your left foot down. Anyway, as I said, it's not black and white. Ride safe. Love and peace.
Modern cars are OK with the clutch fully depressed. In the old days cars didn't have adequate clutch bearings and you wouldn't hold them on the clutch for more than a very short while... but the world changed many many years back.
I am an older rider.....my legs are not as strong as they used to be....its helpful to me to have both feet down sometimes and I spread the weight between both legs.....is there a any reason thats not a good idea.
hi, thanks for your question. Adaptation is a necessary and sensible part of biking. The only reason i would caution against putting both feet down is loss of the rear brake for the final part of stops or using slow speed control pending a stop. This can be a problem if the rider then uses the front brake too firmly and send the weight harshly to the front, often a cause of drops at stop using bigger bikes. Front brake isn't good to use for slow speed control, the rear is great! I hope this helps, all the best
If you are in gear at the traffic lights and get hit from behind the bike will stall, if you are in neutral you will come off the bike and the bike will continue to either hit someone or end up in the traffic, if you have your foot on the back brake and it’s in gear it will go nowhere, if you are in gear you can pull away if you think you are going to get shunted.
If the car hits you hard enough (and it doesn’t have to be going very fast to be a hard impact because of the weight difference) you are going down and probably getting hurt, no matter what. Where your feet are and whether it’s in gear or not and whether you are covering the brake is purely academic in a hard shunt.
Thanks for the vids ..very usefull ...Regarding both feet ...what about heavy wind gusts waiting at junction (possibly with vehicles passing on filter in adjacent lane)? ... This is the only time I do it
Quite simply do the Hendon Shuffle. Big question I have always tried to get the answer: why when doing a test or training there is one way of riding then when you do an advanced course and use the Motorcycle Road Craft as your Bible like approaching a roundabout the lanes are advisory and not compulsory!
Thank you for your question. So when training or testing the standard has to be as per Highway Code, so lane discipline is a must and you only have a small window of opportunity to show the examiner you can ride to this standard. Also, to train a new rider in techniques they can’t use on test would be counter productive. Additionally, many new riders would be confused with all the different ways as well as learning to operate a new machine. However, once the test has been passed and a rider is becoming more able, then new and different, some say advanced, techniques can be introduced safely in conjunction with the already learned foundation skills. I hope this helps all the best.
@@MotorcyclePWR thanks for your time but it fell down due to you reply "that's how the Highway Code" but we can break them on an advanced test in fact we could fail if we don't. Don't worry you don't need to reply.
hi, yes RT brakes are semi linked so as you say if front is on rear is also working. Many bikes dont have this set up, and linked braking can indeed be quite helpful. Unfortunately a heavy handful of front brake will produce undesirable results linked brakes or not! All the best
@@MotorcyclePWRLong ago, I attended a Triumph demo day at a site near Swindon. By the end of the day, pretty much all of the demo bikes had been dropped to riders grabbing too much front brake and a soupcon of turn as they came to rest. Some of the demo bikes carried on with only bent control levers while others were put out of action from that. Hence it is good to hear that basic training now teaches modern learners to use the rear brake when coming to rest. But over the years, at biker meets and such like, I've seen far too many "experienced" riders lacking that basic skill. I also rode a BMW R1100 GS at that event, which I really enjoyed and later owned an R1150RT (which I think had linked brakes).
when you know it and you know that you will be standing still for more than 3 minutes, I also keep the gear engaged, but if it is going to a place where you stand forever for a long time, why not leave it in neutral
Have a few awkward junctions here in wales, T junction on a steep hill with camber , put my gear foot down and i disappear , put my brake foot down makes pulling away difficult when letting go of front brake to put on throttle and feathering clutch, any thoughts please
@The Smithster on 2 wheels Hi, thanks for your question. The only viable solution here is to train to perfection front brake hill starts. If you practice on a straight level and safe road you will be will placed to do it when needed on the hill with an unfavourable camber. Hope it goes well, ride safe
Good insightful video of why to do the _Hendon shuffle_ Rode a 125 back in the 80's and 4 years ago restarted riding, (for 4 years) just did my 3rd cbt and the instructor did not like my advanced riding techniques, yet the one 2 years ago was very impressed with my bike skill, I felt the last cbt instructor wanted me to regress to a newbie level - to the point of i HAD to stall the bike on an emergency stop - my ride for the last 4 years has been an old school kickstart bike - so the last thing I want is to stall the bike in heavy traffic and be there kicking it to start - am I wrong in my thinking/practice ?
@mrburn6119 thanks for your comment. There should be no regression. Instructors should be teaching based on what is now called "Client Centred Learning". The CBT syllabus is prescribed by law, but providing what you do is safe it's not a problem. It may be surprising for some instructors if you exhibit advanced techniques at CBT level, but a discussion to ensure understanding and maybe look at pros and cons should sort that. Many CBT instructors have not done advanced training so may not have an understanding. Stalling in emergency stops is not required, or desired. It is accepted if it happens by error as the bike has stopped, but it is definitely not required. Probably worth getting your direct access done then you can move away from CBT and develop further. All the best
Please explain more about the actual faults they found. I like the advice about having a chat and explaining what you're doing, why, and see if you can both understand each other. Maybe something has changed over the years that more experienced riders don't know about? Could just have been very unlucky and been tested while the examiner was having a bad day.
Can I ask is there any reason why it is bad / adverse to use the back brake at low speeds instead of front - ie why as you become more experienced other than adverse camber (require right foot down) do you start to use the front brake more?
Thanks for your question, the rear brake is also referred to as the controlling brake, and for slow speed control is the go to. I would say there are no good reasons not to use it. I would not use the front brake for slow control as it alters the balance of the bike which is unnecessary at low speeds. If used too strongly or harshly it can cause the front tyre to lose grip. If applying front brake it may lead to poor throttle control which is necessary for slow control. The reference to experienced riders is because novices often use the front less than sympathetically so great care is needed when it is necessary to put the brake foot down. All the best
I suppose it's good advice for new riders. Sort of makes sense, but I long before YT, and I. Just got used to using front brake at slow speed... I've never ever had an issue can think of. Remember on a pedal bike, we were used to stopping using hand controls so to sunddeny switch to a foot control to stop, feels awkward.
Always right foot down, holding in the front break, mostly keep it in gear unless a very long stop light. If stopped on an incline, may be easier to have the break foot up as well.
Should we put both feet out in the beginning when the bike is running slowly with a heavy passenger on the back? Is it enough to put the feet on the footrest after getting the balance?😊
@TonyStark-zc7pg thanks for your question. What you suggest is certainly an option, but with no rear brake access you might have an issue with control if braking is needed. If you set more revs than normal initially before pulling away it will stabilise the bike more as you engage the clutch and that increase in stability may help with regard to the extra weight. All the best.
Ah great, im sure you had a good time with Bob? I use a Gopro hero 8 with media adapter, and an external Sony omnidirectional mic which sits just inside the chin guard of the helmet. Glad the videos are of interest. Will you be coming to get your full licence? All the best
@@MotorcyclePWR hi again,yes Bob was great. I'm an optometrist and I funnily enough had him turn up to one of my clinics the other day and I recognised him straight away. I've got a little Honda PCX which I bought brand new last year. Knowing the type of bike I'd like to buy and ride I'd be interested in doing maybe my A2 license next year so I can ride a larger scooter. I have the same GoPro as yourself which is chin mounted, I also have media mod casing and I've just splashed out on an external battery pack and Lavallier microphone which I'm in the process of trying to fit inside my Schuberth C5 helmet for voice on my footage and longer runtimes. Great videos, really enjoy watching them 😉👍🏻
@Drpepper99uk good stuff, Bobs a great guy. Sounds as if the video kit is going well. Id be interested in how you get on with the battery pack. Its a shame that with the media mod its not waterproof. I feel gopro could do a much better system for bikers. As regards your A2, unless you are under 24 its best to do the Full A DAS, as there is no difference in training and testing A vs A2 except for the bike. The full A gives you a choice of any bike in the future. Hopefully we ll see you soon and I will probably do your intro to a bigger bike before any course. All the best
I am a short arse and the camber has had my on my arse because the instructor was adamant I had to put my left leg down. Can I do either foot during my test? If I am good with the front break?
@victoriaaskey5842 thanks for your question. So to pass a test we need to be under control, safe and legal. Falling off isn't safe! When you come to a stop it needs to be safe and smooth, so if the conditions dictate that you have to put the other foot down to be safe, then that's what you need to do. As you say, front brake use has to be spot on, smooth and tapered to maintain control and smoothness. Harsh use could result in dropping the bike. Flexibility is key to everything on the road. However, if every stop you did never involved the back brake then there could be a question about your knowledge or control ability. I wish you well.
So, big question. Will I fail Mod 2 if I do it the advanced way. I have been riding many years abroad and have a more advanced approach to stopping, not that I knew it was the advanced way. My overseas licence has expired and DVLA won’t convert. Only Mod 2 left. Thanks.
I don’t believe you would fail for stopping with front brake. Done my mod 2 last year and if I remember correctly its more about safe stoping than what break you are using. But double check with instructor.
I can’t comment on what an examiners decision will be on the day. However, I would think that providing a motorcycle is always under control and stops safely and effectively then you shouldn’t have a problem. However an examiner may have an issue with a rider never using a rear brake as part of the stopping process. If your motorcycle has a linked braking system this may negate the concern, however I cannot categorically comment on a pass/fail decision in this case. Please let me know how you get on
What do you mean by "advanced way"? Do you not use the rear brake? What about when entering corners, to tighten the line etc? Or slow riding, reduces fork dive and steering effect?
I know it's 10 months ago now but. Which foot goes down when I'm stopping is greatly affected by the camber or 'flatness' of my stopping area. My bike weights 225kg. Is this a relevant point?
@davidporter9131 no worries on the time period David! Thanks for your comment. Yes, absolutely relevant about the camber. This is the point that a lot of new bikers dont consider. All the best
It’s always left foot down mate that’s a simple one. Avoid sitting in the centre of your lane particularly at intersections as that’s where oil etc is.
What makes you think you are going to be "shunted" all the time? In over 50 years on a bike I have never been hit from behind, that's how rare that phenomenon is! Stop fear mongering, thanks.
@rontheretiredone thank you for your comment. I neither have been shunted in over 40 years. However, there is always a first time and I know of a fellow instructor who was recently shunted, as well as other riders. Creating awareness for riders, especially new ones is not fear mongering. It is part of helping self preservation as the results of being struck from behind on a bike are far more serious than in a car. Thanks
@RC30MINE how is this patronising? Useful for someone whose not ride before don’t ya think? Bit of a stupid comment. Have you taken your stabilisers off yer bike yet? 🤣
@RC30MINE I too have been riding 40 years. I would guess with your skill level acquired over this time that this video is of no benefit to you. I certainly don’t go out in my own time spending my money to make videos to patronise riders. But having trained new riders for over 14 years this information is useful to them. Having recently taken a student to test who had been trained elsewhere they fell off their bike because of the camber. When I asked why they hadn’t put their other foot down they said that they didn’t know they were allowed! If I were training a family member of yours and hadn’t spoken about which foot to put down and they fell off on a right turn and was hit by a lorry I guess you would be pretty upset? So patronising shit for you but maybe lifesaving stuff for someone of less experience? Ride safe.
@@MotorcyclePWR Ignore this wally, i fell off because of the camber on the road as i put my right foot down or so i thought as i didn't reach and lost balance and dropped the bike and snapped the footpeg. Nobody has taught me anything on camber and to my knowledge its never been mentioned on any lessons i've had. So its proof that this video is useful because this is exactly what i searched for in google and this video popped up.
Dick! If you have been riding for 40 years why are you watching videos about which foot to put down. Ignore this idiot, your video is very helpful for someone about to do Mod2.
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I was always taught in various courses to have my foot on the rear brake when stopped momentarily, displaying the brake light to those behind, and to have the bike in gear ... so the left foot goes down. If, as in the video, it is a fairly long stop I don't wanna wear the clutch out so I put the right foot down. Right foot down is the usual for me.
Great point made regarding the camber of the road ... that caught me out decades ago!
As ever, a well thought out and intelligent presentation, thank you.
For me, the “left foot down” technique should be the default, and if it means doing the “Hendon Shuffle”, that’s fine, nothing wrong with it. Starting off again with the right foot down, by releasing the front brake while simultaneously twisting the throttle makes things unnecessarily complicated, particularly on an uphill gradient ( which you may not have appreciated when coming to a stop!). And even more problematic in wet and/or cold conditions.
Yes, there are situations like adverse camber where you will be obliged to put the right foot down, but out of necessity, not choice.
So I will continue to do my “little dance” at stops most of the time, I’m not worried about getting laughs from “ advanced” riders 45 years after getting my first bike!
Thanks again and keep up the great work!
IAM observer and daily commuter with my bike as my only transport here: it's yet another case of "it depends". Traffic light I have just seen turn red? Right foot and neutral. Traffic light I cannot determine time/phase? Right foot but keep in gear for at least 10 seconds. Any sort of filtering? Left foot ONLY: I may need to set off slowly or f'ing quick, depending on how traffic responds to the situation and having the ability to go quick and dedicate my right hand to focus only on the throttle is what I need. With associates, I always try to encourage using any foot that feels comfortable but to become proficient in all methods: left down, right down, both down or even at times to balance with no feet down, do all checks and then move off. Mostly because I want people to stop doing the "rush up to the give way then BRAKE", more use "plan to stop, look to go"
Thank you . First sensible answer. Basically - read situation AND apply as necessary.
If you are short and ride in a country like the UK and Australia the camber of the road makes the right foot a better foot to put down to reach the ground. If you are normal height or have decently long legs no doubt this doesn't matter. No way would I put my left foot down all the time because I'd end up dropping my bike. I have also ridden for 35 years. There's no such thing as a right way except for a given individual under their own circumstances.
I prefer to put the right foot down. Mainly to be sure I'm in first gear. I change to neutral and check the neutral light, then change to 1st and let the clutch out a bit to make sure I can pull away without stalling. Then I can change to the rear brake.
Right foot down always for me. My left knee is made of c/fibre, metal and clever electronics, but it's pants at holding my bikes up.
A good tip for learners is to slightly tilt your head before you stop towards the side of the bike you want to put your foot down and the bike will lean in that direction!
I ride cycles with toe straps. Tilting your head is a must know for balance, especially at slow speed. Have used this technique riding scooters at slow speeds.
With advanced ABS I land on the right foot. That way I can diddle the gear shift or put down the kick stand. I never understood landing left foot.
Like your thinking. As a rider of a taller, heavier adventure bike (with hill-hold), I'm always considering the fall-away of the outside carriageway when caming to a stop, it's sometimes steeper, so in those circumstances better option can be the brake foot down - would be better if I was two inches taller. An increasing issue is being shunted from the rear. Drivers prairie-dogging their phones in busy peak-hour traffic, (I tap the rear brake when I'm stopped in traffic, or at lights and cross walks and keep an eye on the heads of the approaching drivers, having an escape route planned).
It's so sad to read comments challenging Advanced riding techniques, it shows there's a lot of ignorance on the roads.
Excellent video, thank you. May I add my 2 cents? There may be physical reasons to use one or the other leg when putting your foot down. I'm an old geezer and the left knee is no longer in pristine condition... I tend to put my right foot down. I just got myself an older RT, yet it does have ABS, linked and power assisted brakes. These big boxers are an acquired taste and the linked, power assisted brakes makes them rather different. The first 500 miles or so were a bit of a disaster. Yet by now I'm used to both brakes being linked and power assisted. I tend to use the footbrake much more than on my other bikes, when you press a bit harder the front brake will be activated as well. Probably not the right way, it suits me. I believe that is important: put left, right or both feet down does not matter that much, as long as you do what makes you feel safe and comfortable.
Always keep your brake foot up - yeah! I'm with you on this one.
There are going to be times when you're going to want to change down to 1st or neutral while stood still, and there are even going to be times when the road camber will dictate which foot gives the better stability. Point being, riding a bike is dynamic, and it is up to the rider to use whichever foot feels most comfortable to stabilise the bike.
There are even times when putting both feet down is preferable.
For my part, I ride a Honda VFR1200x Crosstourer which has an automatic DCT gearbox, so my left foot is the foot of choice to put down in most situations, but that doesn't mean I won't use my right foot to stabilise the bike when needed.
I’m currently doing the IAM training and have to say it is really good but …… I’ve been riding since I was eleven and cover about 12k miles a year, so I’m a reasonable rider you could say. I’m picking up tips from IAM but it does feel a bit like riding a motorbike has been turned into a science.
I owe a massive thanks to my instructor for my first scooter-based CBT for his persistence in getting me to break a fifty-year cycling habit of left foot up, right foot down. I asked him why it was such a big deal - he turned, smiled, and said I’d be back in a matter of months to redo all this training on a motorcycle, he could just tell I wasn’t going to ride a scooter on L-plates for long. His intuition was spookily spot on! Ok, it was three years with lockdown, but I was back for geared bike CBT and again six month later for my full motorcycle licence. I still consider myself a very new rider, so have stuck with brake foot up, but yeah, a couple of steep cambers have nearly caught me ought… Great insight into biking mindset, twenty minutes well spent! Thank you 👍
Been watching your vids for a while now and would just like to thank you for doing them as they have helped me pass my d a s 2 today great videos
Thank you for your comment, glad the videos helped. congratulations on your pass, enjoy your biking. All the best
I’m an Advanced rider and I have also done Bikesafe, the head of GMP took me out and told me to always cover the back brake if in N or 1st so I always keep my left foot down when waiting in traffic, he also said that you should always know what gear you are in all the time, this is from a Police Advanced Rider
I’ve been riding for 27 years and I’ve dropped my Harley road king on a junction because not reading the camber of the road.
Good to hear a sensible, balanced view on this subject rather than the left foot down only doctrine. I use the rear brake for control and balance at low speeds often making the final stop on the back brake. But, there are many times that I prefer to hold the bike on the front brake with my right foot down. Due to a fairly recent back injury killing my left L5 nerve, I have a very week left calf, ankle, foot and toes. This makes holding a heavy tourer on the balance point for long periods with the left foot difficult, particularly on heavily cambered roads, hills etc. I enjoy your videos and I have strongly recommended your channel to my youngest who is currently on a 125cc between his CBT and Direct Access Modules.
The issue of those riders who are Right-Side dominant is often ignored,perhaps unwittingly. Particularly with larger machines,I feel it is far more beneficial for a rider to come to a "confident"stop,which allows them to make full use of their observation skills and prepare for the next manouvere.Left-Side dominant riders can enjoy the benefits without worrying on that score. As regards the "Hendon Shuffle",I wonder if the British Made Motorcycle tradition of Left Side Brake & Right Side Gears may well have influenced that particular waltz ?
Stopping, holding front brake, right foot down, into neutral, release clutch, left foot down, , foot brake on, release front brake then reverse procedure I'd heard referred to as the Hendon Shuffle about thirty years ago. It's best if riders learn to pull away and release front brake at same time though on very steep gradients rear brake might help.
When I do a hill start using front brake; I tend to slowly release the clutch until the biting point is holding the bike, then release the brake and feed in the power. My bike has 165hp. I find this is the best way to prevent accidentally accelerating too hard because of whisky throttle.
To be honest, I've yet to come to a junction where I have to put my right foot down. It may have happened elsewhere, e.g. Hardknott Pass. But that may be due to long legs.
In most situations at traffic lights I stop with both brakes and bring up the revs in the friction zone to add smoothness because there's power to the rear wheel. Very often I will do the Hendon Shuffle. I can move my right foot off the brake and to the ground at the same time as moving my left foot off the ground and and putting it in neutral. I then flip them back again simultaneously. It takes half a second. If rammed from behind I would rather be dragging the rear wheel than digging the front wheel in. Being in gear doesn't help anything because I'm not going to be able to maintain the friction zone and pull away. If you are in neutral and on the front brake but let go of it on being rammed then the bike really will shoot away and you'll probably end up on the bonnet of the car. On the rear brake you slow the situation down and have slightly more control potentially resulting in less injury. Obviously this all depends on the force of the impact. Very often police are rammed from a short distance by someone trying to push through rather than rammed at speed. Remember the police as an institution has decades of experience of being rammed. The Hendon Shuffle is with good reason. Does that mean you should always do it? No, of course not. It depends on circumstances. Sometimes it just depends on what you feel like doing because as long as you're skilled enough through practice to safely achieve several available options in the circumstances, you could reasonably do any of them. Is it necessary to do the Hendon Shuffle? No. Is it daft to laugh it off? Yes, probably.
@Tristan Downing thanks for your thoughts and comments on this subject, good points made through a sensible approach. Like it, thanks for contributing
@10:31, I never park by motorcycle on neutral! I've seen some "disasters" like someone bumping the motorcycle and it falling of the side stand!
Thanks for good video.
It would be fair to say I give thought to my riding 🤔😅
When I did my CBT & DAS I made conscious effort to default to left foot down unless camber or other factors in play.
I was keen to not be marked down for improper use of controls for DAS & tests. I default rode using the Hendon Shuffle....Although mainly consistent in application it took a fair bit of thought & was initially concerned it might cause my mind to not focus enough elsewhere.
Despite my disciplined shuffle moves ... nobody ever commented positively (examiners or instructors).
I now use right foot down a bit more albeit I still tend to favour left foot down...(subject to camber etc).
On advanced test I used Hendon Shufile ..BUT also did right foot down at times.. to show I could be flexible. Again my footwork not commented on. 😅
Hill starts using front brake are rarely discussed(or taught at DSA level).Well worth practicing to avoid unwanted moments when caught by surprise.
As for paddling out of a closed junction with vision blockers etc.....I prefer both feet up albei only if safe & workable.
Anyway....enough ramblings from this thinking biker for now.
Ride Safe 👍🏍
I’ve only just started to watch your channel because after five years of not riding bikes, but had been riding bikes for 12 years before I stopped riding I just want to be a little bit more responsible and see if I can refresh my brain for bike riding and at least for of your videos I’ve watched has helped me I love what you doing. Thank you very much.
The foot I put down, is the foot that I’m comfortable with, I’m 69 now and ride a sports bike, I tend to put my right foot down, as I find it easier to get that foot back up on the peg, rather than my left foot, I can still safely cover the front brake with my right hand!!
Agree I use the one that works even both down don't care what others think
I know that roundabout at Whitstable..Always gets busy when the suns out !
Never thought about putting the right foot down based on the camber of a hill so I’ll try it… I do put both feet down every now & then, for instance when stopping at a level crossing while a train is passing by….
Like they said about the Post-it tag in movie Apollo 13, - Good thinking! :)
Fantastic instructional video, lots to take in, very helpful fir when I take my CBT and in the future.
I would consider myself an advanced rider and I could only agree to every thing presented in this video, great advise to all novice riders, one rule does not suite all circumstances, you have to be thinking all the time and anticipate and adapt to the environment as to which foot to use, when performing you license test I would agree follow your instructors advise, once you have past you license test and as you become more experienced you can start to experiment with the advise given in this video, it was all wonderful advise great video!
You self identify as an advanced rider? Is that something you can do these days?
I look at the slope of the ground and go from there. I don’t like falling.
As a fellow instructor on CBT/ DAS/the DVSA ERS and others - I really like the way you have made clear distinction between actions of a new rider / experienced! Very clear instructions with some nice awareness of other tupes of riders - thank you :
thank you Russ, glad you like the content. All the best
Interesting to hear how it’s been taught in a different country. In the Netherlands I learned to put the right foot down by default. Reason is so you have your left foot on the gear lever so you can go away instantly when you need to. That was over 20 years ago so could be it changed by now. Also, most of our country is flat so I don’t need the brakes when I’ve stopped, only in rare occasions. I usually do a hill start on the front brake then. So I was intrigued to see that in other countries the left foot is favoured. I guess it makes sense when you stop on inclines most of the times so you can relax your right hand.
THanks for the video, I learned UK circles don't flow well. Washington, D.C. has many circles, and they work great. Sadly, that's the only thing that works in DC
Hi as a senior motorcyclist you refired to the Hendon shuffle this is a technique you have to adopt when you ride a older bike with the brake on the left and the gears on the right. like you said makes no sense on a modern bike. The Police were riding Triumph 650 Saint bikes back then.and Velocette 200le ( noddy) bikes.
10:10 Thank you. Exactly what I needed. Use my bike to commute around Hilly parts of Kampala and always struggle with traffic cues on hills.
I was always drilled to only use front brake whenever the bike is upright and handlebars straight.
@Steve00 Alt yes, at CBT/DAS level thats usual, as we dont want new riders "grabbing a handful" when cornering and putting the bike on the floor. But this needs to be developed post test, as braking in bends with the front is fine and sometimes necessary if done correctly. Its not that you cant use the front brake in a bend, its HOW you use it in a bend! Ride safe
I remember we had a discussion about this when I queried what you were doing when I was riding behind you quite a while back. I recognise those roads, particularly the awkward camber one! A good video, I vary depending on the situation.
I like to put my right foot down but i hook the brake lever under the velcro on my boot so the right foot is down on road and the back brake is engaged (though not very strongly). Left foot on the footpeg and free to put the bike in Neutral and engage 1st gear when the lights are about to change. Best of both worlds, but not advised for new riders!
I only ever use the rear at a standstill, nothing to do with my training, but to allow the front disc'd to cool down evenly, holding the bike on the front risks warping them. If in stop start traffic, I'd sooner use my feet or a little clutch depending on the gradient of the road.
I've never replaced a pair of discs due to warpage, and at up to £600 a pair I don't plan on changing my method anytime soon.
Thanks for that Phil, something else to consider and yet again excellent break down of actions. Real helpful
Great commentary, enjoyed listening. “”Stay Safe”
Have a great New Year, mate 👍 looking forward to seeing more of your great helpful videos in the new year 🏍👍
Happy new year! Thank you for your comments, much appreciated. All the best
Merry Christmas, mate, for this week have a great one. Ps keep the great videos coming 👍
Merry Christmas, thank you, i hope you have a good one. All the best 🎄🥂
Whichever one is closer to the ground.
Thought it would have been , which ever foot stops you from falling over . lol .
I'm I'm noob... around 6 months so far on a cbt.
I almost always put my left foot down and keep the bike in 1st gear when stationary, to enable me to move quickly if need be.
Being in neutral with my right foot down, means I'm likely holding the front break, slowing a sudden move off, especially if on a hill, because I will need to switch feet and change gear, and turn thr throttle, rather than just go with small hand and foot movement, noswapoing involved.
I feel much safer and steadier this way.
Other than a bit of a rest, can someone please tell me the benefits of being in neutral at a stop? I'm aware I could be missing some important information here!!!
I was awarded Silver for my last RoSPA re-test, and I was not best chuffed. The examiner told me that it wasn't a Gold because I hadn't used the rear brake when coming to a halt, and that by using the front brake only the bike could nose dive. I was riding a GS at the time with telelever suspension, so really no chance of that, but I didn't argue the point. I prefer right foot down because I have a gammy left leg, and feel way more confident supporting the bike on the right side. I have my next re-test this year, so I will have to practice left foot down all over again, or stopping on the rear brake and then putting my right foot down smoothly. Always lots to work on. Enjoyable vid btw.
Thank you for your comment. Sorry to hear of your less than pleasing result. I’m not a rospa examiner, but if I were, knowing your reasons for how you use the brakes, I wouldn’t mark you down as long as you could use rear if really necessary and your thought process/ explanation made sense whilst preserving safety. All the best
I've been watching all of the videos for weeks, I'm doing my advanced riders hopefully in Sept, I got the foot positions spot on, I love the corner videos and positions on the roads, Devon has many pot holes and gravel.
thanks Chris, please let us know how you get on with the test. All the best
Been riding bikes for 50 years never really thought about what foot I put down ! but I ride bikes with both left and right gear change , on my vintage matchless do use more rear brake as the front brake is a little weak . Other bike is Thruxton 1200 with pretty good front brake so use the front most of the time (ABS and don't ride in wet ) rear is just used steady / stabilize bike going into a bend , don't think I use rear much in traffic . Seems odd to me so much is put on low speed handling , to me reading the road ahead and other road users is the skill bikers need , other thing is handling bike on bends Many panic when entering bend bit faster than intended and either go for brakes or go straight on ! I was lucky as teenager we had couple of older guys (in their 20's lol ) both had raced bloody quick on road taught me loads
Very helpful video. Beautifully and calmly answered my questions. Thank you.
Returner rider after 30+ years who last rode a BSA B33 Combo and didn't have to worry about which foot!
More excellent tips and clarification, thank you.
Putting both feet down may avoid the surprise that the “level” asphalt was just out of reach… then switch
I've been riding for about 3 weeks now and a lot of the "advanced" things you've mentioned I have already been doing, I don't think about which foot I have down too much but I just cater to the environment I'm in, granted I'm only on a 125cc so the bike is a lot lighter than the bigger bikes. I was told by my CBT instructor that I was a natural & as big headed as it sounds, I felt a lot more comfortable getting on a bike than I did in a car. I have currently had some really heavy winds recently and I feel that's been the only challenge as of now, just by how light I am and how light my bike is. Great video, always learning and picking up new things, safe riding.
sounds like you are very sure of your new found abilities. am happy for you but keep it humble - especially as a new rider.
It's not a black and white question of left foot/right foot.
Riding a motorcycle is about anticipating your route, looking at immediate obstacles, such as the 'left-looking right-turner' but also having an eye on the further distance and observing potential hazards.
Then there is gear choice and engine braking, (two-strokes excepted, but not so common these days), and an understanding of braking distances, road surface, lighting conditions and weather.
Basically, riding at 10mph or less, it's rear brake only. In such conditions, front brake would only be used in an absolute emergency. And you might still end up doing a 90 degree lateral 'off'.
If I'm waiting in traffic, I rarely engage Neutral unless it looks like a bit of a wait, in which case I want to conserve the strength in my clutch hand. Motorcycle clutches are minimally affected by this practice, whereas modern cars suffer more wear if you keep your left foot down.
Anyway, as I said, it's not black and white. Ride safe.
Love and peace.
Modern cars are OK with the clutch fully depressed. In the old days cars didn't have adequate clutch bearings and you wouldn't hold them on the clutch for more than a very short while... but the world changed many many years back.
The high side foot always.
I am an older rider.....my legs are not as strong as they used to be....its helpful to me to have both feet down sometimes and I spread the weight between both legs.....is there a any reason thats not a good idea.
hi, thanks for your question. Adaptation is a necessary and sensible part of biking. The only reason i would caution against putting both feet down is loss of the rear brake for the final part of stops or using slow speed control pending a stop. This can be a problem if the rider then uses the front brake too firmly and send the weight harshly to the front, often a cause of drops at stop using bigger bikes. Front brake isn't good to use for slow speed control, the rear is great! I hope this helps, all the best
If you are in gear at the traffic lights and get hit from behind the bike will stall, if you are in neutral you will come off the bike and the bike will continue to either hit someone or end up in the traffic, if you have your foot on the back brake and it’s in gear it will go nowhere, if you are in gear you can pull away if you think you are going to get shunted.
Or if you are in gear at the lights get rear ended you might also get pulled back, induce whiskey throttle and tear off across the junction?
If the car hits you hard enough (and it doesn’t have to be going very fast to be a hard impact because of the weight difference) you are going down and probably getting hurt, no matter what. Where your feet are and whether it’s in gear or not and whether you are covering the brake is purely academic in a hard shunt.
Hello great movie very nice filmed ;)
Thanks for the vids ..very usefull ...Regarding both feet ...what about heavy wind gusts waiting at junction (possibly with vehicles passing on filter in adjacent lane)? ... This is the only time I do it
@Anoni Mouse thank you, much appreciated. Yes, good advice and one area I missed, thanks for sharing. Ride safe
Quite simply do the Hendon Shuffle.
Big question I have always tried to get the answer: why when doing a test or training there is one way of riding then when you do an advanced course and use the Motorcycle Road Craft as your Bible like approaching a roundabout the lanes are advisory and not compulsory!
Thank you for your question. So when training or testing the standard has to be as per Highway Code, so lane discipline is a must and you only have a small window of opportunity to show the examiner you can ride to this standard.
Also, to train a new rider in techniques they can’t use on test would be counter productive. Additionally, many new riders would be confused with all the different ways as well as learning to operate a new machine.
However, once the test has been passed and a rider is becoming more able, then new and different, some say advanced, techniques can be introduced safely in conjunction with the already learned foundation skills. I hope this helps all the best.
@@MotorcyclePWR thanks for your time but it fell down due to you reply "that's how the Highway Code" but we can break them on an advanced test in fact we could fail if we don't.
Don't worry you don't need to reply.
Are your brakes not linked on that RT anyway, i.e. if you are using the front the bike is applying the rear too no?
hi, yes RT brakes are semi linked so as you say if front is on rear is also working. Many bikes dont have this set up, and linked braking can indeed be quite helpful. Unfortunately a heavy handful of front brake will produce undesirable results linked brakes or not! All the best
@@MotorcyclePWRLong ago, I attended a Triumph demo day at a site near Swindon. By the end of the day, pretty much all of the demo bikes had been dropped to riders grabbing too much front brake and a soupcon of turn as they came to rest. Some of the demo bikes carried on with only bent control levers while others were put out of action from that.
Hence it is good to hear that basic training now teaches modern learners to use the rear brake when coming to rest. But over the years, at biker meets and such like, I've seen far too many "experienced" riders lacking that basic skill.
I also rode a BMW R1100 GS at that event, which I really enjoyed and later owned an R1150RT (which I think had linked brakes).
Good instruction as ever. What gloves are you wearing in this video?
I was with Northants Police’s Bike Safe at the weekend. This is exactly what the Police motorcyclists do.
In traffic I prefer to keep in gear, clutch pulled. In neutral you're a bit of a sitting duck..
What is the advantage of being in neutral ?
when you know it and you know that you will be standing still for more than 3 minutes, I also keep the gear engaged, but if it is going to a place where you stand forever for a long time, why not leave it in neutral
Have a few awkward junctions here in wales, T junction on a steep hill with camber , put my gear foot down and i disappear , put my brake foot down makes pulling away difficult when letting go of front brake to put on throttle and feathering clutch, any thoughts please
@The Smithster on 2 wheels Hi, thanks for your question. The only viable solution here is to train to perfection front brake hill starts. If you practice on a straight level and safe road you will be will placed to do it when needed on the hill with an unfavourable camber. Hope it goes well, ride safe
Good insightful video of why to do the _Hendon shuffle_
Rode a 125 back in the 80's and 4 years ago restarted riding, (for 4 years) just did my 3rd cbt and the instructor did not like my advanced riding techniques, yet the one 2 years ago was very impressed with my bike skill, I felt the last cbt instructor wanted me to regress to a newbie level - to the point of i HAD to stall the bike on an emergency stop - my ride for the last 4 years has been an old school kickstart bike - so the last thing I want is to stall the bike in heavy traffic and be there kicking it to start - am I wrong in my thinking/practice ?
@mrburn6119 thanks for your comment. There should be no regression. Instructors should be teaching based on what is now called "Client Centred Learning". The CBT syllabus is prescribed by law, but providing what you do is safe it's not a problem. It may be surprising for some instructors if you exhibit advanced techniques at CBT level, but a discussion to ensure understanding and maybe look at pros and cons should sort that. Many CBT instructors have not done advanced training so may not have an understanding.
Stalling in emergency stops is not required, or desired. It is accepted if it happens by error as the bike has stopped, but it is definitely not required. Probably worth getting your direct access done then you can move away from CBT and develop further. All the best
Please explain more about the actual faults they found.
I like the advice about having a chat and explaining what you're doing, why, and see if you can both understand each other. Maybe something has changed over the years that more experienced riders don't know about?
Could just have been very unlucky and been tested while the examiner was having a bad day.
Can I ask is there any reason why it is bad / adverse to use the back brake at low speeds instead of front - ie why as you become more experienced other than adverse camber (require right foot down) do you start to use the front brake more?
Thanks for your question, the rear brake is also referred to as the controlling brake, and for slow speed control is the go to. I would say there are no good reasons not to use it.
I would not use the front brake for slow control as it alters the balance of the bike which is unnecessary at low speeds. If used too strongly or harshly it can cause the front tyre to lose grip.
If applying front brake it may lead to poor throttle control which is necessary for slow control.
The reference to experienced riders is because novices often use the front less than sympathetically so great care is needed when it is necessary to put the brake foot down.
All the best
I suppose it's good advice for new riders. Sort of makes sense, but I long before YT, and I. Just got used to using front brake at slow speed... I've never ever had an issue can think of. Remember on a pedal bike, we were used to stopping using hand controls so to sunddeny switch to a foot control to stop, feels awkward.
Always right foot down, holding in the front break, mostly keep it in gear unless a very long stop light. If stopped on an incline, may be easier to have the break foot up as well.
Should we put both feet out in the beginning when the bike is running slowly with a heavy passenger on the back?
Is it enough to put the feet on the footrest after getting the balance?😊
@TonyStark-zc7pg thanks for your question. What you suggest is certainly an option, but with no rear brake access you might have an issue with control if braking is needed. If you set more revs than normal initially before pulling away it will stabilise the bike more as you engage the clutch and that increase in stability may help with regard to the extra weight. All the best.
Hi, what video and microphone setup are you using to create these videos? Great content, I did my CBT with Bob last year and really enjoyed it.
Ah great, im sure you had a good time with Bob?
I use a Gopro hero 8 with media adapter, and an external Sony omnidirectional mic which sits just inside the chin guard of the helmet.
Glad the videos are of interest.
Will you be coming to get your full licence?
All the best
@@MotorcyclePWR hi again,yes Bob was great. I'm an optometrist and I funnily enough had him turn up to one of my clinics the other day and I recognised him straight away. I've got a little Honda PCX which I bought brand new last year. Knowing the type of bike I'd like to buy and ride I'd be interested in doing maybe my A2 license next year so I can ride a larger scooter. I have the same GoPro as yourself which is chin mounted, I also have media mod casing and I've just splashed out on an external battery pack and Lavallier microphone which I'm in the process of trying to fit inside my Schuberth C5 helmet for voice on my footage and longer runtimes. Great videos, really enjoy watching them 😉👍🏻
@Drpepper99uk good stuff, Bobs a great guy. Sounds as if the video kit is going well. Id be interested in how you get on with the battery pack. Its a shame that with the media mod its not waterproof. I feel gopro could do a much better system for bikers.
As regards your A2, unless you are under 24 its best to do the Full A DAS, as there is no difference in training and testing A vs A2 except for the bike. The full A gives you a choice of any bike in the future. Hopefully we ll see you soon and I will probably do your intro to a bigger bike before any course. All the best
I am a short arse and the camber has had my on my arse because the instructor was adamant I had to put my left leg down. Can I do either foot during my test? If I am good with the front break?
@victoriaaskey5842 thanks for your question. So to pass a test we need to be under control, safe and legal. Falling off isn't safe! When you come to a stop it needs to be safe and smooth, so if the conditions dictate that you have to put the other foot down to be safe, then that's what you need to do. As you say, front brake use has to be spot on, smooth and tapered to maintain control and smoothness. Harsh use could result in dropping the bike. Flexibility is key to everything on the road. However, if every stop you did never involved the back brake then there could be a question about your knowledge or control ability. I wish you well.
So, big question. Will I fail Mod 2 if I do it the advanced way. I have been riding many years abroad and have a more advanced approach to stopping, not that I knew it was the advanced way. My overseas licence has expired and DVLA won’t convert. Only Mod 2 left. Thanks.
I don’t believe you would fail for stopping with front brake. Done my mod 2 last year and if I remember correctly its more about safe stoping than what break you are using. But double check with instructor.
I can’t comment on what an examiners decision will be on the day. However, I would think that providing a motorcycle is always under control and stops safely and effectively then you shouldn’t have a problem. However an examiner may have an issue with a rider never using a rear brake as part of the stopping process. If your motorcycle has a linked braking system this may negate the concern, however I cannot categorically comment on a pass/fail decision in this case.
Please let me know how you get on
What do you mean by "advanced way"? Do you not use the rear brake? What about when entering corners, to tighten the line etc? Or slow riding, reduces fork dive and steering effect?
No wheelie's ?
Thank you
I know it's 10 months ago now but. Which foot goes down when I'm stopping is greatly affected by the camber or 'flatness' of my stopping area. My bike weights 225kg. Is this a relevant point?
@davidporter9131 no worries on the time period David! Thanks for your comment. Yes, absolutely relevant about the camber. This is the point that a lot of new bikers dont consider. All the best
Ahh then Hendon Shuffle!!
I’ve only got one foot which makes things easier.
... and if you have short legs like me you have to choose the side that you can reach without dropping the bike!
It’s always left foot down mate that’s a simple one. Avoid sitting in the centre of your lane particularly at intersections as that’s where oil etc is.
If you’re gonna sit in traffic like that, you may as well be in a car.
I dont filter unless really big gap, seen to many last second lane change from car drivers
And that is where bikers go wrong. Just because you can’t filter doesn’t mean you should. Safety come first. Or it should do.
Yeah and I see so many idiots overtaking everything all the time and putting themselves in danger for getting a couple of cars up the road.
I’d prefer filter if safe to do so than sit covering me brakes thinking somebody might hit me from behind 🤷♂️just a thought
Since I’m down to one eye after detached retina, I very rarely filter now.
What makes you think you are going to be "shunted" all the time? In over 50 years on a bike I have never been hit from behind, that's how rare that phenomenon is! Stop fear mongering, thanks.
@rontheretiredone thank you for your comment. I neither have been shunted in over 40 years. However, there is always a first time and I know of a fellow instructor who was recently shunted, as well as other riders. Creating awareness for riders, especially new ones is not fear mongering. It is part of helping self preservation as the results of being struck from behind on a bike are far more serious than in a car. Thanks
Wrong attitude pal, these guys are best riders you'll ever come across, what they say is gospel, okay?
I've been hit from behind in a car that is a lot easier to see than a bike
@@ThreeB78 I too have been hit from behind in a car.
hi been riding bikes for 40 yrs this is patronising shit
@RC30MINE how is this patronising? Useful for someone whose not ride before don’t ya think? Bit of a stupid comment. Have you taken your stabilisers off yer bike yet? 🤣
@RC30MINE I too have been riding 40 years. I would guess with your skill level acquired over this time that this video is of no benefit to you. I certainly don’t go out in my own time spending my money to make videos to patronise riders.
But having trained new riders for over 14 years this information is useful to them. Having recently taken a student to test who had been trained elsewhere they fell off their bike because of the camber. When I asked why they hadn’t put their other foot down they said that they didn’t know they were allowed!
If I were training a family member of yours and hadn’t spoken about which foot to put down and they fell off on a right turn and was hit by a lorry I guess you would be pretty upset?
So patronising shit for you but maybe lifesaving stuff for someone of less experience? Ride safe.
@@MotorcyclePWR Ignore this wally, i fell off because of the camber on the road as i put my right foot down or so i thought as i didn't reach and lost balance and dropped the bike and snapped the footpeg. Nobody has taught me anything on camber and to my knowledge its never been mentioned on any lessons i've had. So its proof that this video is useful because this is exactly what i searched for in google and this video popped up.
Thank you for your support, much appreciated. Glad the video is of some use. Ride safe
Dick! If you have been riding for 40 years why are you watching videos about which foot to put down. Ignore this idiot, your video is very helpful for someone about to do Mod2.