It's mildly disturbing how many people are enamored with the book of Enoch. "Enoch Bros" tend to almost throw any argument against it into the trash due to how invested they are into it being "hidden knowledge." The comments are proving my point.
It’s because it’s the work of Satan who always comes bringing “secret knowledge” and the Christian’s have been fighting this false gospel from the gnostics for 2000 years. None of this is new. Secret knowledge always eventually leads to self deification, whether is the Secret (claims you are a god at the end of the book), Osteen also claims you have divine ability to manifest your carnal desires, or Hinduism which also teaches you are a god, or any new age teaching which also resists Christ’s words to teach that we are all gods with amnesia. It’s all the same. There is only Christianity versus man’s babel religions of self deification. Either God is king or man is king. Both can’t be true.
Yep. I see it all the time. The regular Bible is not enough for them. It bores them. They need to have something extra, especially so they can show off that they have some sort of "secret knowledge" others don't have
Thank you. So many people get led away by countless unbiblical writings without being able to discern the difference between those writings and scripture
Definitely Scripture.... just not necessary knowledge for salvation and therefore not "canon" .... the Bible is the Story of Christ...not every detail of the world...
The Book of Enoch is God Breathed and You can see where Enoch The Great Grandfather of Noah wrote, and Then Methulesah, and Then Noah Finished. Also Enoch describes Election and Predestination of a people set a side for the Holy One Who Is also Jesus Christ aka Michael The Uncreated only Begotten Son of God and Head of All The Heavenly Hosts both Elect and Non-Elect hosts and is The Archangel of all Archangels.
First Tolkien, then C S Lewis and now the book of Enoch the newest hot find for the pastors. Those 60ft giants that have to weigh 18,000lb for a normal BMI.
Great book to read "The Unseen Realm" by D. Michael S. Heiser, highly recommeneded. Another one is "Reversing Hermon: Enoch, the Watchers, and the Forgotten Mission of Jesus Christ". For you library "Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible" by Van der Toorn, Karel, Bob Becking and Pieter W. van der Horst editors. More for your library: "Two Powers in Heaven" by Alan F. Segal and Lynn Segal
@@Alittle06 The Watchers were the angels that came down and birthed the Nephilim with women. Often they are confused with Nephilim but they were the father's of the Nephilim. Welcome out of the cult brother.
@@Alittle06 Dr. heiser has tons of content on youtube.. "reversing Hermon" is a good place to start. its based on his book that is worth getting along with th rest of his books
@@Alittle06 welcome to the true Truth…..our LORD Jesus Christ (John 14:6). I was exposed to JW false doctrines and teachings (Watchtower) as a kid. I was never a JW but sure was blinded by the false “light”. My mother was a JW until about her last 25 years of her life when she finally believed in the REAL Jesus of the Bible. She’s now with Him above. Heiser stressed the overarching importance and role of the Divine Council in the Old Testament (read Psalm 82). The term (Aramaic עִירִין, iyrin) Watcher refers to a supernatural being. In the Book of Daniel chapter 4, the term is used twice. The Divine Council is a group of “angels” (not an accurate term to describe them) that rule from heaven and God Himself is the Head or the LORD of the Council. Dr. Garaldi, a retired Reformed pastor, just finished an excellent teaching series (17 episodes about 1.5 hours long each) on RUclips. He deals and explains the Watchers (in my humble opinion better than Heiser). Search the RUclips channel “International Theological Institute” and you’ll see it there. You can email him for his notes in the subject. Prepare to eat a huge theological buffet. The demons Jesus encounters (Legion for example) are the roaming souls of the dead Nephilim. They recognize who Jesus is and say Jesus is the Son of the Most High God. El Elyon in Hebrew….the LORD of the Council. Be blessed in Him. Post Tenebras Lux
Just found this interview with Wes. If the first book of Enoch is something we should take with a grain of salt. Then why does the book of Jude refer to a prophecy done by Enoch? It seems that he’s talking to a group of people that would have known about the book of Enoch
Well Enoch lived 3 or 4000 years ago. So probably didn't write the book himself. It was written in pieces, with some in the 300's BC. And some later into the Dead Sea Scroll time-frame.
Read it once, and recognize it is fake junk. Then forget about it. Do not study it like the other person said. You would be better off studying a dog turd on your lawn.
About the treasure map and Copper Scroll, there is an American archeologist who has deeply researched this and taken its information to mapping out specific areas of Israel. He has strong suspicions based on research and scientific data that a particular site may entomb what was left of the gold vessels from the temple, including, possibly, the ark. He is currently working with the Israeli government and several Israeli research institutions to get permission and arrange further investigation and an excavation.
Hopefully it's a reputable Archeologist and the Israeli Govt cooperates... There has been to much suppression and/or looting. This would be a huge discovery for the world.
Everyone seems to throw out the term Apocalyptic Literature, but I've never heard anyone back up the "genre" with any ancient literary works other than Revelation and Enoch. Can anyone tell me some of the other books that make up this genre??
Maybe I can help! I'm no scholar, but if I remember correctly there's an "Apocalypse of Baruch" and an "Apocalypse of Esdras" that are considered pseudepigrapha. I think in Esdras there is a vision of a three-headed eagle or something like that. I read it once and don't remember a ton of it.
I'm not sure,I looked it up. I'm sure others survived and where not ignored bye the monks. But since it's a anthology type publication. Gnostic texts somehow survived, and or some became kabbalah. I'm sure recently discovered would not be widely published outside university studies I know, with Greek mythology, they have a lot of missing texts, a lot comes from Ovid and the epic books. Monks only copies those to learn Greek so they wouldn't of copied Every text. Just the big ones
@@robsadob1594 It seems to me that prophetic books are thrown into a "genre" in order to allegorize away severe judgment so that the message can be more palatable rather than believe our God is intending to deal with sinful man one day.
Though not fully apocalyptic, many of the prophets have large apocalyptic sections in them, particularly when dealing with the end of the Old Covenant.
@@senorblondie I mean that's why revelation is often treated differently. Does it have duel meaning, some say it was about nuro after his response to Rome burning.. had they been direct and a Roman official seen it. It would of fueled the persecutions. They did think the Christians where terrorists afterall. It was not about their faith as polytheists don't execute people over beliefs.
@@e.m.8094 it is. What is something that you learned through Dr. Heiser's work that you did not know before? Personally, it was the first time I had heard of the Divine Council.
2nd and 3rd have serious issues. There are videos on youtube, just search. 3 Enoch is where the idea of the angel Metatron comes from. 2 & 3 are about becoming gods...very New Agey stuff.
All due respect to the frame of reference for Revelation is found in scripture because scripture interprets scripture Old Testament scriptures like Daniel and Zechariah for example
With all due respect, the frame of reference for Revelation is found in Revelation. 19Therefore write down the things you have seen, and the things that are, and the things that will happen after this.
Mike was wrong about Enoch. He was one of those people who assume Peter quoted it. It can be misleading. the books of Enoch are of little to no use. Even 1 Enoch. Everybody should read Enoch once. Then recognize it is crap and forget about it.
@@br.m no Dr heiser's brilliance and extremely insightful and is points about Enoch. I've studied it and countless others have studied it and agree so I'm sorry that you disagree but that's just the way it is. To your comment about him being wrong on Peter . It's just false. To make the claim that Peter didn't quote it it's just false information. Just because it's not word for word doesn't mean it's not from the writings of Enoch Shalom to you even though your comment is quite disrespectful
@@Equalshares Disrespectful?? I respectfully disagree. You and Mike leap to a conclusion for no reason whatsoever. Just because the author of Enoch used similar language to languages used by Peter. Proves nothing. You have to use your imagination. Lean on your own understanding. Follow your own wicked heart. You are wrong, Mike was wrong. I am right. You are disrespectful and wrong and you are resisting the Truth.
@@Equalshares Lol. Enoch did not write anything. And I am sorry that you think you are respectful and I am sorry you think I am disrespectful. Pat yourself on the back though. Good work.
@@brianlomax3363 It's not bad. The biblical cosmology is very flat earth in its illustration. But like Dr Michael heiser said, it's not a science book.
should search Dr. Michale heiser and flat earth. He explains how the bible does paint a flat earth but also gives the reason why he's not a flat earther.
@@brianlomax3363 It contains heretical doctrine, which I'm sure they'll get to in part 2, but I'm just saying the people who are seduced by flat earth theories are also attracted to extrabiblical material like the Book of Enoch. I think it's fundamentally a gnostic temptation to find secret knowledge that most people don't know about.
You didn't hear that they have fragments of it. The don't have full copies of the book of Enoch. How do you call it a book when they only have fragments of the manuscript?
Because of the internal evidence of the period such as the solar calendar, anachronisms and Hellenistic thought. The dead sea scrolls were compiled mostly by the Essenes and they know when that sect was active. It's not nor has it ever been scripture. It's an authentic piece of ancient Jewish literature. Still not scripture.
No it doesnt seem to... It seems to be a messianic figure that is addressing noah. But theres no commas in the original writing. And in some english versions there is punctuation added that make it seem like noah os being described as divine, but i dont believe that is correct.
@@charitybrook6279 yeah, it's been pretty well established that the book of enoch is not equivalent to scripture, but nice literary apocalypse genre of what is it a compilation of 7 books spaning from 400 BC-200 AD ? Like many other historical writings we can tell what is definally not inspired like all the gnostic gospels and gnostic writings of the 2nd century upward.
@@joshuawoodin many of the ot canon books are also written/edited over a large span of time. Doesn't make them invalid. And idk whether Enoch is inspired or not. There clearly was a tradition of writings from Enoch being considered scripture at one point in the past, and it was clearly a valued text known by the biblical authors and Jesus Himself. There definitely does seem to be messianic prophecy contained within 1st Enoch which I find interesting.
Jesus being essene? No. John the baptizer being essene? Totally possibly. He fits the description and his parents were old and therefore could have given him up to a religious group at a young age. It’s an interesting theory.
I am disappointed by this first video. I was looking for a dive into the book and it's analogies to it's biblical context as to the old/new testaments. This video gave me almost no useable information other than where the texts originated.
Just before the 29 minute mark, you said that Malachi 5 says there will be a silent period. Where do you see that? It says that God will send Elijah the prophet, but it does not say there that He will be silent until then. It looks like you are adding to what the Bible is saying.
I think he meant Micah 5:3 “3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites.” Do NOT accuse a brother of Blasphemy until you’ve done your research. Blasphemy is a serious accusation and not something that should be taken lightly
@@GodLRCN Did you mistype or are you trolling? There is no such thing as Malachi 5:3. In the video just before the 29:00 mark he referenced chapter 4:5-6, but it doesn't say that there. Can you please give the specific quote and reference you are speaking of so I can read it myself, please?
Yeah, Nephilim were just tyrant kings. There's nothing in the text about divine beings. Ancient kingship especially in the ANE were referred to as descending from heaven and the kings were called sons of God or the gods. Their offspring are called men and the flood is to punish men's continual wickedness. No punishment is mentioned for divine beings, just flesh.
Nefilim means "fallen" or "to fall". They had to have fallen from somewhere. Mt Hermon is in the news recently. And at the base is where Jesus preached. So the beliefs that the fallen angels came down and married the daughters of men is logical. The nefilim offspring became kings because they were huge and powerful. The story is reflected by the Greeks with their Demi god's. Same story different culture.
@VancouverInvestor The root nephal can mean to fall. The translators of the Septuagint chose giant. All irrelevant though since the Genesis account says nothing about divine beings doing anything and only calls them men. The flood is sent to destroy mankind for their continual evil. It says nothing about divine beings fallen or otherwise being punished. When Adam and Eve fell where did they fall from?
Jesus refers to Enoch as Scripture in Matt 5 when talking about the angels in heaven not giving in marriage. Enoch is also referred to in the book of Jude. If Jesus says it's scripture it doesn't matter what you think.
Yes, and 2Peter 2:4 talks about angels that sinned and were cast down to Tartarus where they are kept in chains of darkness until the final judgment. This event is described nowhere in the Bible, but it is for sure in the Book of Enoch.
Jesus didn't call the book scripture. Any parts of it quoted as authoritative in the Bible would be true, but that doesn't mean the entire book is. Paul quoted contemporary poets in the Bible - does that mean all their works are now scripture?
Here's the thing that you and Wes are not paying enough attention to.. Enoch is directly quoted by Jude. And referenced by Peter twice. And it was preserved in the dead sea scrolls. There is a difference in the way the term "Sons of God" is used in the old testament and the new. Not to mention, Deuteronomy 32 when it says "children of Israel" differs from the dead sea scroll "Sons of God". Which actually does matter considering the fact that the Masoretic changes from this while the Septuagint follows dead sea scrolls. Every time in the old Testament is talking about the fallen angels whereas new testament is referring to those who are saved. Now that being said, I definitely don't consider Enoch Cannon . However, Christ and his apostles and followers were definitely aware of the literature. They never called it heresy, but in fact quoted its content. I grew up protestant and I understand why people don't like the content. Its very in depth about things that most Christians don't want to even attempt to think about. Stay clear of 2nd and 3rd Enoch but 1st Enoch is fine with me. Give it a read and ask the Spirit to guide you.
Both Jude and Peter correct Enoch. There is a marked difference between Jude's quote and the one in the Book of Enoch, namely, in Enoch it says "he comes to execute judgement on all and *destroy all the unrighteous* and convict *all* of their unrighteous deeds" whereas Jude says "he comes to execute judgement on all and convict all the *unrighteous among them* of their unrighteous deeds." It's subtle, but the difference is, in Jude he comes to judge all and only the unrighteous among us will be convicted. In the Book of Enoch, nobody escapes conviction. Peter corrects the notion that unblemished is anything other than unrighteousness.
So even though Jude the brother of Yeshua quotes enoch exactly saying ...the 7th from Adam . Proving it's the Enoch from Genesis . That you would still deny it is shocking
@@brianrich7828 Jude quotes it directly. About these also Hanokh, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
@@Equalshares The Apostles also quote Greek philosophers. Paul quotes these Greek philosophers Menander (1 cor 15:33), Epimenides (Titus 1:12), Lucius Annaeus Seneca (Acts 17:24-29), Aristotle (Gal 5:23b), and so on. So, by your logic, we should add their writings to the Canon as well.
@@brianrich7828 actually no that's not what I'm saying. But Enoch is different he wasn't a Greek philosopher he was the 7th from Adam in that line and the first Prophet. It's kind of a big deal.
They never claimed that the book of Enoch is inspired scripture. It isn't. As such, it is to be treated like any other historic document that isn't inspired scripture, the writings of fallible men, that while it may contain some level of accurate accounts, is by no means inerrant and can also contain inaccurate accounts such as that.
Shalom. That is a false accusation. It does no such thing. Please go and study it for yourself and stop slandering a book approved by Yeshua and his apostles
@@brianlomax3363they were called Israelites or Hebrews. “Jews” is a more modern term. When it says “the Jews” in the NT it’s an anachronism for the modern reader.
Jews comes from Judeans and they were all called that after the remnants of the northern tribes fled into Judea while the rest were deported. That's 2700 years roughly so yeah there were ancient Judeans, otherwise known as Jews.
1 Enoch has been in the Ethiopian Bible 2 thousand years ago and 2nd and 3rd Enoch has been proven to be written in or around the 15th century but Wes seems to be blanketing all of Enoch being written in the 15th century.? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but the Ethiopian 1 Enoch matches up to the dead sea scrolls. I don't know anyone who takes 2 & 3 Enoch seriously but I do believe 1 Enoch should be taken seriously. That and Jubilees were a big help to my studies. Jubilees alone answers so many questions we have today which Genesis leaves out because its a summary of Jubilees. I believe these two books have been demonized for a reason.
@@prestonhartlief I did hear him say that but then he seems to start blanketing it under being written in the 15th century is all I was getting at. Take 2nd and 3rd off the table because I believe no one thinks they are legit and focus on the first one.
@@treyhanley5641 Good argument. The facts are they didn't most of the scriptures and other apocryphal writings until the 4th century. Codex Sinaiticus is the oldest complete Bible.
I dont remember them ever saying thus sayeth the lord. It's just a fun topic for literature that actually exists on a show called cultish. What were you expecting?
@@michaels7325 He did refer to it as key text. Also didn't explain why the Jews ,and Christians of that time rejected it form the Torah, and Gospels. He also failed to mention that the first Christians were Jewish converts. So why would he say that they wouldn't know Hebrew?
@@1sweet_ta He said most of the the church fathers during the early councils didn't know hebrew if I remember correctly. Timestamp me if I'm wrong. As far as being a key text, it would depend on what you mean by key. I never heard any arguments those texts should be included, however if you want to know some texts of the apocrypha were included in the kjv prior to the 1800's.
@@michaels7325 He was implying that they didn't understand by saying most of them couldn't read Hebrew. This is a very purposeful poisoning of the well. He is trying to plant a seed of doubt in the very Holy Word of God. Both of these young men have no business speaking on apologia TV. I have a very hard time believing they are this ignorant. So I must think they're wolves in sheep's clothing trying to lead us away from the very word of God.
@@wayfaringfarmer2724 Jude corrects the quote from Enoch.There is a marked difference between Jude's quote and the one in the Book of Enoch, namely, in Enoch it says "he comes to execute judgement on all and *destroy all the unrighteous* and convict *all* of their unrighteous deeds" whereas Jude says "he comes to execute judgement on all and convict all the *unrighteous among them* of their unrighteous deeds." It's subtle, but the difference is, in Jude he comes to judge all and only the unrighteous among us will be convicted. In the Book of Enoch, nobody escapes conviction. Peter corrects the notion that unblemished means anything other than unrighteousness.
@@wayfaringfarmer2724 What? You didn't even engage with my argument, you don't get to agree to disagree when you didn't offer a disagreement. What's your disagreement with my argument?
Seriously?!?! This guy is an expert of pseudepigrapha? Are you sure you just didnt find some guy with a degree that agrees with your preconceptions? There is so much relevant information he did not mention. No way that your audience got a balanced presentation of what the book of Enoch is or what we can get from it.
It's the same story over and over with these cultish episodes. It's always one side of the story there's never an expert on the other side to debate and bring a solid defense.
It’s not uncommon for Protestants to have already read the Pseudepigrapha, and in some of our cases, multiple times over. There’s some neat stuff in them. Definitely not canonical still. Contradicts much of the doctrines in the rest of the Texts. They consider it the same as the Jews did, as ancient Jewish literature, and that’s it.
Too bad y’all don’t believe in the book of Enoch. You’re missing a whole lot of truth. Plus who are you or anyone else to say that the books that were a part of the Bible are not scripture? Doesn’t revelation state not to take away nor add to it? Is that revelation alone or the whole Bible itself?
Because it was never considered to be canonical by anyone other than the Catholics. Not even the Jews. Save for a heretical group called the Essenes, who had 80 books they considered to be scripture.
@@brianrich7828 heretical?!? Bro . They were devout followers and kept the way of YHWH. Without their records our faith wouldn't have had that huge boost of proof in the dead sea scrolls. I think you should study them and and their writings a lot more . They deserve better than your disrespectful comment and slander
@@Equalshares they were gnostic, or at least protognostic. And thanks to them, we now have a bunch of cults running around claiming Jesus was an Essence gnostic, they were a group of end time heretics, their beliefs are heretical absolutely. But thanks. And I, nor the body of Christ, needed the Dead Sea scrolls for a “boost”, we had faith well before them. But they do make for more apologetic material for those who care.
Ethiopians put Enoch in the Bible. Same as the Shepard of Hermes. When you read them you realize an Angel (Phinuel) told Enoch what to write, not God. Same as Shepard of Hermes. 2 Timothy 3:16. (Inspired by God, no one else) Good reads but not inspired by God. And in Hermes case he didn't understand that Jesus was God and not adopted like we are in the Body of Christ. Read Dead Sea Scrolls.
@@Ocapela215 and where can I find that the Ethiopians added Enoch to the Bible? I mean, if you’re going to say otherwise. I need evidence of what you’re stating, not your personal opinion. Because I’ve researched it and haven’t found other wise.
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Oh, I'm glad there will be a Part 2. I realized I was nearly at the end and they didn't get to details on what it's about. Thanks.
It's mildly disturbing how many people are enamored with the book of Enoch. "Enoch Bros" tend to almost throw any argument against it into the trash due to how invested they are into it being "hidden knowledge." The comments are proving my point.
The amount of writings and cult-like following of them is insane, ya.
@@realLizardboy it's why I stopped listening to Blurry Creatures. They practically worship the book of Enoch nowadays.
It’s because it’s the work of Satan who always comes bringing “secret knowledge” and the Christian’s have been fighting this false gospel from the gnostics for 2000 years. None of this is new. Secret knowledge always eventually leads to self deification, whether is the Secret (claims you are a god at the end of the book), Osteen also claims you have divine ability to manifest your carnal desires, or Hinduism which also teaches you are a god, or any new age teaching which also resists Christ’s words to teach that we are all gods with amnesia.
It’s all the same. There is only Christianity versus man’s babel religions of self deification. Either God is king or man is king. Both can’t be true.
Christians are so gullible because we don't read
Yep. I see it all the time. The regular Bible is not enough for them. It bores them. They need to have something extra, especially so they can show off that they have some sort of "secret knowledge" others don't have
Hope you all enjoy our latest series in the book of Enoch!
Thank you. So many people get led away by countless unbiblical writings without being able to discern the difference between those writings and scripture
I really enjoyed this, thank you for posting. When I visited Israel back in 84, I took a Dead Sea Stroll and not too many people know about it ;)
Dead Sea scrolls treasure map?! That sounds like such a fun premise for a book/ movie.
Yeah...its in the Copper Scroll. It would make a great basis for National Treasure 3...where's Nic Cage when we need him.
Wes is my favorite guest!
Definitely not scripture but the ancient world definitely considered it a trustworthy document
Definitely Scripture.... just not necessary knowledge for salvation and therefore not "canon" .... the Bible is the Story of Christ...not every detail of the world...
@@shenanigansofmannananit's not Scripture if it's not divinely inspired. It's also not written by who it claims or when it pretends to be.
Quite educational. Many thanks, fellas.
Ken Johnson has an amazing series going through the entire book and breaking it down and comparing with scripture.
I was just starting to look up info on this book. I thought I wonder what the folks from Apologia think about this and bam here it is.
Lol. Did you find what you wanted?
This is uncanny timing, i was recently thinking of just buying the book to read purely out of curiosity.
Yeah, it's a good read. You'll be able to clearly see where it diverges from Scripture. But all in all, good for historical purposes.
The Book of Enoch is God Breathed and You can see where Enoch The Great Grandfather of Noah wrote, and Then Methulesah, and Then Noah Finished. Also Enoch describes Election and Predestination of a people set a side for the Holy One Who Is also Jesus Christ aka Michael The Uncreated only Begotten Son of God and Head of All The Heavenly Hosts both Elect and Non-Elect hosts and is The Archangel of all Archangels.
Historical
@@wallywest001 Jesus is NOT an archangel.
@@wallywest001 this is where the JWs get their theology on Jesus.
This was amazing! Wess is awesome
First Tolkien, then C S Lewis and now the book of Enoch the newest hot find for the pastors. Those 60ft giants that have to weigh 18,000lb for a normal BMI.
Great book to read "The Unseen Realm" by D. Michael S. Heiser, highly recommeneded. Another one is "Reversing Hermon: Enoch, the Watchers, and the Forgotten Mission of Jesus Christ". For you library "Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible" by Van der Toorn, Karel, Bob Becking and Pieter W. van der Horst editors. More for your library: "Two Powers in Heaven" by Alan F. Segal and Lynn Segal
Who are the watchers?… curious as an exjw, pretty sure this is their origin.
@@Alittle06 The Watchers were the angels that came down and birthed the Nephilim with women. Often they are confused with Nephilim but they were the father's of the Nephilim. Welcome out of the cult brother.
@@Alittle06 Dr. heiser has tons of content on youtube.. "reversing Hermon" is a good place to start. its based on his book that is worth getting along with th rest of his books
@@Alittle06 welcome to the true Truth…..our LORD Jesus Christ (John 14:6). I was exposed to JW false doctrines and teachings (Watchtower) as a kid. I was never a JW but sure was blinded by the false “light”. My mother was a JW until about her last 25 years of her life when she finally believed in the REAL Jesus of the Bible. She’s now with Him above. Heiser stressed the overarching importance and role of the Divine Council in the Old Testament (read Psalm 82). The term (Aramaic עִירִין, iyrin) Watcher refers to a supernatural being. In the Book of Daniel chapter 4, the term is used twice. The Divine Council is a group of “angels” (not an accurate term to describe them) that rule from heaven and God Himself is the Head or the LORD of the Council. Dr. Garaldi, a retired Reformed pastor, just finished an excellent teaching series (17 episodes about 1.5 hours long each) on RUclips. He deals and explains the Watchers (in my humble opinion better than Heiser). Search the RUclips channel “International Theological Institute” and you’ll see it there. You can email him for his notes in the subject. Prepare to eat a huge theological buffet. The demons Jesus encounters (Legion for example) are the roaming souls of the dead Nephilim. They recognize who Jesus is and say Jesus is the Son of the Most High God. El Elyon in Hebrew….the LORD of the Council. Be blessed in Him. Post Tenebras Lux
This was very informative, thank you!
Just found this interview with Wes. If the first book of Enoch is something we should take with a grain of salt. Then why does the book of Jude refer to a prophecy done by Enoch? It seems that he’s talking to a group of people that would have known about the book of Enoch
Well Enoch lived 3 or 4000 years ago. So probably didn't write the book himself.
It was written in pieces, with some in the 300's BC. And some later into the Dead Sea Scroll time-frame.
Thank you for this. I know nothing about the book of Enoch.
Study it and read it for yourself and pray at the Holy Spirit unveil the truth. Please don't just take other people's words for it
Read it once, and recognize it is fake junk. Then forget about it. Do not study it like the other person said. You would be better off studying a dog turd on your lawn.
About the treasure map and Copper Scroll, there is an American archeologist who has deeply researched this and taken its information to mapping out specific areas of Israel. He has strong suspicions based on research and scientific data that a particular site may entomb what was left of the gold vessels from the temple, including, possibly, the ark. He is currently working with the Israeli government and several Israeli research institutions to get permission and arrange further investigation and an excavation.
Do you know this guy's name?
I do not remember it. I will try to find out.
Hopefully it's a reputable Archeologist and the Israeli Govt cooperates...
There has been to much suppression and/or looting. This would be a huge discovery for the world.
I'm interested in your channel but also wish you had more info on your background, theological training etc.,
The book of Enoch is new age doctrine. Gnostics love it
Everyone seems to throw out the term Apocalyptic Literature, but I've never heard anyone back up the "genre" with any ancient literary works other than Revelation and Enoch. Can anyone tell me some of the other books that make up this genre??
Maybe I can help! I'm no scholar, but if I remember correctly there's an "Apocalypse of Baruch" and an "Apocalypse of Esdras" that are considered pseudepigrapha. I think in Esdras there is a vision of a three-headed eagle or something like that. I read it once and don't remember a ton of it.
I'm not sure,I looked it up. I'm sure others survived and where not ignored bye the monks. But since it's a anthology type publication. Gnostic texts somehow survived, and or some became kabbalah. I'm sure recently discovered would not be widely published outside university studies
I know, with Greek mythology, they have a lot of missing texts, a lot comes from Ovid and the epic books. Monks only copies those to learn Greek so they wouldn't of copied Every text. Just the big ones
@@robsadob1594 It seems to me that prophetic books are thrown into a "genre" in order to allegorize away severe judgment so that the message can be more palatable rather than believe our God is intending to deal with sinful man one day.
Though not fully apocalyptic, many of the prophets have large apocalyptic sections in them, particularly when dealing with the end of the Old Covenant.
@@senorblondie I mean that's why revelation is often treated differently. Does it have duel meaning, some say it was about nuro after his response to Rome burning.. had they been direct and a Roman official seen it. It would of fueled the persecutions. They did think the Christians where terrorists afterall. It was not about their faith as polytheists don't execute people over beliefs.
I made some memes about this on Instagram and boy did it lure in a lot of crazy comments. Had no idea the response would be quite like that.
Dr. Heiser wrote two books on 1 Enoch.
I love Dr. Heisers work.
@@greysinferno8214 It's so insightful! 🙌
@@e.m.8094 it is. What is something that you learned through Dr. Heiser's work that you did not know before? Personally, it was the first time I had heard of the Divine Council.
I this an old recording? Because he is talking about Thanksgiving and I am sitting in the hotel in Dawson Creek BC thinking where is the turkey?
Yes, we recorded this several months ago.
Dead Sea Scroll treasure map? Someone contact Haunted Cosmos.
Yaaas
What’s the difference between 1Enoch and 2Enoch? I remember one of them was legitimate and the other was not???
Neither is legitimately written by Enoch. Neither seems to have been written by the same author.
2nd and 3rd have serious issues. There are videos on youtube, just search.
3 Enoch is where the idea of the angel Metatron comes from. 2 & 3 are about becoming gods...very New Agey stuff.
All due respect to the frame of reference for Revelation is found in scripture because scripture interprets scripture Old Testament scriptures like Daniel and Zechariah for example
With all due respect, the frame of reference for Revelation is found in Revelation.
19Therefore write down the things you have seen, and the things that are, and the things that will happen after this.
@@ChristisLord2023A lot of the imagery is drawn and hearkens back to Ezekiel, Zechariah, Daniel and other OT prophets.
If you really want to hear an expert talk about the book of Enoch check out Dr Michael Heiser.
This is halfbaked and lacks faith
Mike was wrong about Enoch. He was one of those people who assume Peter quoted it. It can be misleading. the books of Enoch are of little to no use. Even 1 Enoch. Everybody should read Enoch once. Then recognize it is crap and forget about it.
@@br.m no Dr heiser's brilliance and extremely insightful and is points about Enoch. I've studied it and countless others have studied it and agree so I'm sorry that you disagree but that's just the way it is.
To your comment about him being wrong on Peter . It's just false. To make the claim that Peter didn't quote it it's just false information. Just because it's not word for word doesn't mean it's not from the writings of Enoch
Shalom to you even though your comment is quite disrespectful
@@Equalshares Disrespectful??
I respectfully disagree. You and Mike leap to a conclusion for no reason whatsoever.
Just because the author of Enoch used similar language to languages used by Peter. Proves nothing.
You have to use your imagination. Lean on your own understanding. Follow your own wicked heart.
You are wrong, Mike was wrong. I am right. You are disrespectful and wrong and you are resisting the Truth.
@@br.m disrespectful to the writings of Enoch brother, but also now disrespectful to me...
Shalom and much love regardless
@@Equalshares Lol. Enoch did not write anything. And I am sorry that you think you are respectful and I am sorry you think I am disrespectful.
Pat yourself on the back though. Good work.
I was literally just searching how to thoroughly refute flat earth theory claims
Lot of overlap between Enoch lovers and flat earthers.
@@joelpierce1453is Enoch that bad?
@@brianlomax3363 It's not bad. The biblical cosmology is very flat earth in its illustration. But like Dr Michael heiser said, it's not a science book.
should search Dr. Michale heiser and flat earth. He explains how the bible does paint a flat earth but also gives the reason why he's not a flat earther.
@@brianlomax3363 It contains heretical doctrine, which I'm sure they'll get to in part 2, but I'm just saying the people who are seduced by flat earth theories are also attracted to extrabiblical material like the Book of Enoch. I think it's fundamentally a gnostic temptation to find secret knowledge that most people don't know about.
It’s great that you brought in Jack Reacher to explain Enoch for us! 😂
How isn’t there a movie about hunting for this treasure 🤷♂️🤷♂️
That’s a good movie idea 🤔
How do you know WHEN it was written? Since it was found with the Dead Sea scrolls, it seems to me that it may be authentic
You didn't hear that they have fragments of it. The don't have full copies of the book of Enoch. How do you call it a book when they only have fragments of the manuscript?
Because of the internal evidence of the period such as the solar calendar, anachronisms and Hellenistic thought. The dead sea scrolls were compiled mostly by the Essenes and they know when that sect was active.
It's not nor has it ever been scripture. It's an authentic piece of ancient Jewish literature. Still not scripture.
💙 Hanukkah morphed into something that is completely different from Feast of Dedication. Hanukkah has as much legend as Santa Clause.
Is it true that the book of enoch refers to enoch as the messiah or a messianic figure ?
No. Some translations say that but no
No it doesnt seem to... It seems to be a messianic figure that is addressing noah. But theres no commas in the original writing. And in some english versions there is punctuation added that make it seem like noah os being described as divine, but i dont believe that is correct.
@@charitybrook6279 yeah, it's been pretty well established that the book of enoch is not equivalent to scripture, but nice literary apocalypse genre of what is it a compilation of 7 books spaning from 400 BC-200 AD ? Like many other historical writings we can tell what is definally not inspired like all the gnostic gospels and gnostic writings of the 2nd century upward.
@@joshuawoodin many of the ot canon books are also written/edited over a large span of time. Doesn't make them invalid.
And idk whether Enoch is inspired or not. There clearly was a tradition of writings from Enoch being considered scripture at one point in the past, and it was clearly a valued text known by the biblical authors and Jesus Himself. There definitely does seem to be messianic prophecy contained within 1st Enoch which I find interesting.
@@charitybrook6279 well said on both comments!!!
Jesus being essene? No. John the baptizer being essene? Totally possibly. He fits the description and his parents were old and therefore could have given him up to a religious group at a young age. It’s an interesting theory.
Bring on Brian Godawa!
💙 Jesus did not tend the Feast of Dedication, that’s when the Jews tried to stone Him.
I am disappointed by this first video. I was looking for a dive into the book and it's analogies to it's biblical context as to the old/new testaments. This video gave me almost no useable information other than where the texts originated.
Just before the 29 minute mark, you said that Malachi 5 says there will be a silent period. Where do you see that? It says that God will send Elijah the prophet, but it does not say there that He will be silent until then.
It looks like you are adding to what the Bible is saying.
I think he meant Micah 5:3
“3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor bears a son,
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.”
Do NOT accuse a brother of Blasphemy until you’ve done your research. Blasphemy is a serious accusation and not something that should be taken lightly
@@GodLRCN Did you mistype or are you trolling? There is no such thing as Malachi 5:3.
In the video just before the 29:00 mark he referenced chapter 4:5-6, but it doesn't say that there. Can you please give the specific quote and reference you are speaking of so I can read it myself, please?
Yeah, Nephilim were just tyrant kings. There's nothing in the text about divine beings. Ancient kingship especially in the ANE were referred to as descending from heaven and the kings were called sons of God or the gods.
Their offspring are called men and the flood is to punish men's continual wickedness. No punishment is mentioned for divine beings, just flesh.
Nefilim means "fallen" or "to fall". They had to have fallen from somewhere.
Mt Hermon is in the news recently. And at the base is where Jesus preached. So the beliefs that the fallen angels came down and married the daughters of men is logical.
The nefilim offspring became kings because they were huge and powerful. The story is reflected by the Greeks with their Demi god's. Same story different culture.
@VancouverInvestor The root nephal can mean to fall. The translators of the Septuagint chose giant.
All irrelevant though since the Genesis account says nothing about divine beings doing anything and only calls them men. The flood is sent to destroy mankind for their continual evil.
It says nothing about divine beings fallen or otherwise being punished.
When Adam and Eve fell where did they fall from?
October?
Very apropos
❤
Jesus refers to Enoch as Scripture in Matt 5 when talking about the angels in heaven not giving in marriage. Enoch is also referred to in the book of Jude. If Jesus says it's scripture it doesn't matter what you think.
Yes, and 2Peter 2:4 talks about angels that sinned and were cast down to Tartarus where they are kept in chains of darkness until the final judgment. This event is described nowhere in the Bible, but it is for sure in the Book of Enoch.
We don't know, just can guess what IS or Isn't the book of Enoch because it's a bunch of sources, very well gnostic works got in
Jesus didn't call the book scripture. Any parts of it quoted as authoritative in the Bible would be true, but that doesn't mean the entire book is. Paul quoted contemporary poets in the Bible - does that mean all their works are now scripture?
@@adameisbrenner6209exactly. I guess Greek philosophy is now canonical as well.
@@adameisbrenner6209exactly. I guess Greek philosophy is now canonical as well.
Here's the thing that you and Wes are not paying enough attention to.. Enoch is directly quoted by Jude. And referenced by Peter twice. And it was preserved in the dead sea scrolls. There is a difference in the way the term "Sons of God" is used in the old testament and the new. Not to mention, Deuteronomy 32 when it says "children of Israel" differs from the dead sea scroll "Sons of God". Which actually does matter considering the fact that the Masoretic changes from this while the Septuagint follows dead sea scrolls. Every time in the old Testament is talking about the fallen angels whereas new testament is referring to those who are saved. Now that being said, I definitely don't consider Enoch Cannon . However, Christ and his apostles and followers were definitely aware of the literature. They never called it heresy, but in fact quoted its content. I grew up protestant and I understand why people don't like the content. Its very in depth about things that most Christians don't want to even attempt to think about. Stay clear of 2nd and 3rd Enoch but 1st Enoch is fine with me. Give it a read and ask the Spirit to guide you.
Both Jude and Peter correct Enoch.
There is a marked difference between Jude's quote and the one in the Book of Enoch, namely, in Enoch it says "he comes to execute judgement on all and *destroy all the unrighteous* and convict *all* of their unrighteous deeds" whereas Jude says "he comes to execute judgement on all and convict all the *unrighteous among them* of their unrighteous deeds."
It's subtle, but the difference is, in Jude he comes to judge all and only the unrighteous among us will be convicted. In the Book of Enoch, nobody escapes conviction.
Peter corrects the notion that unblemished is anything other than unrighteousness.
So even though Jude the brother of Yeshua quotes enoch exactly saying ...the 7th from Adam . Proving it's the Enoch from Genesis . That you would still deny it is shocking
What?
What?
@@brianrich7828 Jude quotes it directly.
About these also Hanokh, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones,
15to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
@@Equalshares The Apostles also quote Greek philosophers. Paul quotes these Greek philosophers Menander (1 cor 15:33), Epimenides (Titus 1:12), Lucius Annaeus Seneca (Acts 17:24-29), Aristotle (Gal 5:23b), and so on. So, by your logic, we should add their writings to the Canon as well.
@@brianrich7828 actually no that's not what I'm saying. But Enoch is different he wasn't a Greek philosopher he was the 7th from Adam in that line and the first Prophet. It's kind of a big deal.
👍
Jesus was an antisemitic anarchist 😮
The book of Enoch states Moses is the true god/Savior. What in the world is this podcast doing allowing such heresy to be taught and approved by you.
They never claimed that the book of Enoch is inspired scripture. It isn't. As such, it is to be treated like any other historic document that isn't inspired scripture, the writings of fallible men, that while it may contain some level of accurate accounts, is by no means inerrant and can also contain inaccurate accounts such as that.
Shalom. That is a false accusation. It does no such thing. Please go and study it for yourself and stop slandering a book approved by Yeshua and his apostles
He makes alot of assumptions but doesnt give any proofs or even theories on his assumptions.
There are no ancient "jews".
No ancient Jews. Really? They came from Judea. Beninging of time. 😅
@@brianlomax3363 those would be Hebrews. Jews came from the tribe of Judah , later the kingdom of Judah.
@@brianlomax3363they were called Israelites or Hebrews. “Jews” is a more modern term. When it says “the Jews” in the NT it’s an anachronism for the modern reader.
Jews comes from Judeans and they were all called that after the remnants of the northern tribes fled into Judea while the rest were deported. That's 2700 years roughly so yeah there were ancient Judeans, otherwise known as Jews.
1 Enoch has been in the Ethiopian Bible 2 thousand years ago and 2nd and 3rd Enoch has been proven to be written in or around the 15th century but Wes seems to be blanketing all of Enoch being written in the 15th century.? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but the Ethiopian 1 Enoch matches up to the dead sea scrolls. I don't know anyone who takes 2 & 3 Enoch seriously but I do believe 1 Enoch should be taken seriously. That and Jubilees were a big help to my studies. Jubilees alone answers so many questions we have today which Genesis leaves out because its a summary of Jubilees. I believe these two books have been demonized for a reason.
He knows that the 1Book of Enoch was written during the inter Testamental Period 14:33
@@prestonhartlief I did hear him say that but then he seems to start blanketing it under being written in the 15th century is all I was getting at. Take 2nd and 3rd off the table because I believe no one thinks they are legit and focus on the first one.
The Ethiopian Bible is not that old. That's just factually incorrect.
@@MagicMayers You're wrong...
@@treyhanley5641 Good argument. The facts are they didn't most of the scriptures and other apocryphal writings until the 4th century. Codex Sinaiticus is the oldest complete Bible.
WTF! This sounds like miner league. Bring back Dr. White.
Why are yall poisoning the well?
wym
I dont remember them ever saying thus sayeth the lord. It's just a fun topic for literature that actually exists on a show called cultish.
What were you expecting?
@@michaels7325 He did refer to it as key text. Also didn't explain why the Jews ,and Christians of that time rejected it form the Torah, and Gospels. He also failed to mention that the first Christians were Jewish converts. So why would he say that they wouldn't know Hebrew?
@@1sweet_ta He said most of the the church fathers during the early councils didn't know hebrew if I remember correctly. Timestamp me if I'm wrong. As far as being a key text, it would depend on what you mean by key. I never heard any arguments those texts should be included, however if you want to know some texts of the apocrypha were included in the kjv prior to the 1800's.
@@michaels7325 He was implying that they didn't understand by saying most of them couldn't read Hebrew. This is a very purposeful poisoning of the well. He is trying to plant a seed of doubt in the very Holy Word of God. Both of these young men have no business speaking on apologia TV. I have a very hard time believing they are this ignorant. So I must think they're wolves in sheep's clothing trying to lead us away from the very word of God.
So this guy overrides Peter and Jude?
No, Peter and Jude override Enoch when they corrected it.
How do? By referring to his writings?
@@wayfaringfarmer2724 Jude corrects the quote from Enoch.There is a marked difference between Jude's quote and the one in the Book of Enoch, namely, in Enoch it says "he comes to execute judgement on all and *destroy all the unrighteous* and convict *all* of their unrighteous deeds" whereas Jude says "he comes to execute judgement on all and convict all the *unrighteous among them* of their unrighteous deeds."
It's subtle, but the difference is, in Jude he comes to judge all and only the unrighteous among us will be convicted. In the Book of Enoch, nobody escapes conviction.
Peter corrects the notion that unblemished means anything other than unrighteousness.
Thanks for the reply, agree to disagree on this. Have a great day
@@wayfaringfarmer2724 What? You didn't even engage with my argument, you don't get to agree to disagree when you didn't offer a disagreement.
What's your disagreement with my argument?
Seriously?!?! This guy is an expert of pseudepigrapha? Are you sure you just didnt find some guy with a degree that agrees with your preconceptions? There is so much relevant information he did not mention. No way that your audience got a balanced presentation of what the book of Enoch is or what we can get from it.
You must've missed the part where they mention that this is the first episode and there will be a second episode discussing all of that.
It's the same story over and over with these cultish episodes. It's always one side of the story there's never an expert on the other side to debate and bring a solid defense.
It’s not uncommon for Protestants to have already read the Pseudepigrapha, and in some of our cases, multiple times over. There’s some neat stuff in them. Definitely not canonical still. Contradicts much of the doctrines in the rest of the Texts. They consider it the same as the Jews did, as ancient Jewish literature, and that’s it.
And that is the picture that should have been presented. @@brianrich7828
@@Equalshareswatch something else
Are we really trusting the Jews to tell us what scripture is!!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Canonized OT yes. Why wouldn’t we?
Too bad y’all don’t believe in the book of Enoch. You’re missing a whole lot of truth. Plus who are you or anyone else to say that the books that were a part of the Bible are not scripture?
Doesn’t revelation state not to take away nor add to it? Is that revelation alone or the whole Bible itself?
Because it was never considered to be canonical by anyone other than the Catholics. Not even the Jews. Save for a heretical group called the Essenes, who had 80 books they considered to be scripture.
@@brianrich7828 heretical?!? Bro . They were devout followers and kept the way of YHWH. Without their records our faith wouldn't have had that huge boost of proof in the dead sea scrolls.
I think you should study them and and their writings a lot more . They deserve better than your disrespectful comment and slander
@@Equalshares they were gnostic, or at least protognostic. And thanks to them, we now have a bunch of cults running around claiming Jesus was an Essence gnostic, they were a group of end time heretics, their beliefs are heretical absolutely. But thanks. And I, nor the body of Christ, needed the Dead Sea scrolls for a “boost”, we had faith well before them. But they do make for more apologetic material for those who care.
Ethiopians put Enoch in the Bible. Same as the Shepard of Hermes. When you read them you realize an Angel (Phinuel) told Enoch what to write, not God. Same as Shepard of Hermes. 2 Timothy 3:16. (Inspired by God, no one else) Good reads but not inspired by God. And in Hermes case he didn't understand that Jesus was God and not adopted like we are in the Body of Christ. Read Dead Sea Scrolls.
@@Ocapela215 and where can I find that the Ethiopians added Enoch to the Bible? I mean, if you’re going to say otherwise. I need evidence of what you’re stating, not your personal opinion. Because I’ve researched it and haven’t found other wise.
There's a daily perpetual curse on you
Prove it.
Book of Enoch claims Enoch is the son of man and messiah. You can keep it, I'll stick with Jesus cheers.