The Spirit vs The Mind: On Thinking in the Black Church
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2008
- Bishop Paul S. Morton and Dr. James H. Cone debate on how the Black Church should regard "the spirit" and "the mind" at Tavis Smiley's State of the Black Church Symposium in 2003
Dr. James Cone spoke so spiritual to the point to where you can see everything obviously....Go ahead doc...so did Bishop Paul S. Morton.
"It's hard to get us together, UNLESS we are on stage" Dr. Cone......wow
I really like what James Cone said! Never heard of him before, but I'm loving what he said!!!
Thank God for Brother Cone. I hope this message can reach every person in ministry today and convict those who are trying to sell Jesus like a product.
Dr. Cone is telling the straigth truth and it lines up with the word of god period
Dr. Cone is a bad brothajamma!!! FOr the over 20 years that I have heard him on and off I have NEVER been disappointed!!!
James Cone....Thank You!
Man, this video clip is clean!
I'm glad you put this up, it really got me into Black Liberation Theology.
Much Love
Both are saying the same thing. They are complimentary of each other. The point is the total negligence of the mind according to Dr. Cone. Dr. Morton said it's about spirit first. The Spirit downloads what we need from God to the mind so that it can be manifested in the forms of solutions to age old issues. The Kingdom of God being manifested
@jusprazem1 well said.
I'm going with Morton on this one. I mean both viewpoints are good but Morton was more in line with the commandment of love.
Jesus was the 'Perfect example of a heavenly mind and being of earthly good!
Dr. James Hal Cone speaks very eloquently; however, what he says is hard to understand or to be put into a perspective.! He doesn't make sense. He speaks phrases that are very entertaining and bring pleasure. However, his thinking is rather convoluted. He speaks in intelligent circles without saying much. Jesus spoke directly to the people's common sense or understanding! Jesus is most likely of brown skin, yet his message is to all people of all colors. Simply put, He is the Son of God and came to earth to live as a human and experience human joy and suffering. He then pronounced His message as the Savior, was rejected by jealous religious leaders and the mob mentality, was punished and then crucified like an innocent lamb to die for the sins of all mankind! God bless my black brothers in Christ. Jesus came to die for all of us who are imperfect, but we can be made whole in His sacrificial blood through belief! We all can have that in common.
So a parable is speaking directly? Jesus spoke in allegorical parables all the time. And do not even let me get on his post resurrection Book of Revelation where he did not ONCE speak directly (or in plain language) to John.
William J Hazelbauer Dr. Cone is an institution by himself.
William J: He doesnt want the listener to understand but to think while living.
Can I introduce you to Dr. Ray Hagins ministery. He is real and done his research and can backup his theory on the topic being spoken.
www.Dr. Ray Hagins.com/the false teachings of the Apostle Paul and so many more topics.
I enjoyed the.last speaker who spoke the common sense truths.
Ase'.
James cone was brilliant
It's funny he said all that but in 2000 had Leroy Thompson preach at his conference lol
In the following verse it looks like spirit is AFTER mind. So it all depends on what verses we use:
Psalm 77:3
I think of God; I groan; I meditate; my spirit becomes weak.
@dmoore76 i don't think Cone was devaluing the spirit. as you noted, God is spirit. he noted that there's 'a spirit but not sure whose spirit it is'. that's the key. most black folk can think they are in the spirit when in reality it's just fleshly emotionalism. many are expert at making people move without God's spirit (ex. Paul Morton). the mind must be engaged to understand and discern spiritual things while the spirit restores and empowers the believer to greater works.
@NYTNinAmerica theology is the worshipful way people study God; since Adam humans have been thinking about GOD, all of this thinking is from each persons respective point of view based off their unique experiences. Cone's greatest contribution is getting the world to view Black folks' thinking as important enough to study calling it false teaching discredits God based thinking from the Black experience and echoes the racism that originally sought to silence him in the 60's.
@mysticgatherings
I have to disagree with you. The mind is not everything. There is always a balance for a christian . That is why the word says to love God with your heart, soul and mind. If you believe the Bible, God is a spirit. So why would a believer devalue the importance of the spirit? Your mind is finite(limited). If your relationship with Christ is based on your mind only, it will not last long because FAITH is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things NOT seen.
Liberation...nice!!
@godisanegro, I am not clear on what you're asking. Please ask your question in a more direct fashion.
@wbowersox87 I totally agree.
@godisanegro, I said at the outset that he was "dropping some serious science on this subject". I don't know how to be more clear.
@victorious592 did you notice the quietness of those to his immediate right. they are your pharisees. however, many further down enjoyed what he had to say. i see people like cone as a type of john the baptist...a 'voice' crying in the wilderness. i don't know how the mind and spirit works really. i just know that we are called to love Him with all we have and to keep our focus on Him only. He alone is God.
@dmoore76 wow....
God will deal with them.
Shalom Peace, actually, the soul or spirit is in the mind, this has been proven physically and mentally. The problem is that the heart, which is a powerful mechanism with the body, often is guided by emotion instead of logic.
The heart is moved by the passion of Christ, his mother, child/mother context etc...this is not logical when you try to begin to comprehend the universe and sense experience in the material world.
Furthermore, black nor white does not define nor imply nationality, it does however, binds one legally within a jurisdiction limiting jurisprudence in common law and maritime law situations, so its time to lose these words.
So once we rid the world of rotting flesh divisions, then we can concentrate on humanity as a whole.
Daniel Moshe Johnson
Love it!
@victorious592
I think we must be careful when we start generalizing a group of people. No one can say "most people" do this or that because we do not know the majority of any group of people. Black folks are not monolithic. It is true that emotinalism takes over at times but that is not necessarily a bad thing. The Bible says that we do not serve a high priest that cannot be touched by the FEELINGS of our infirmities. Our relationship with Christ is emotional. The mind does need to be
I see the debate. The mind versus the Spirit is not an old argument. It is the traditional faith versus pragmatism debate. The two gentelmen make some valid points. But, the Word of God says that whatever is not faith is sin. In other words, without faith, we miss the mark.
dmoore: please answer this question, you said we are living in the last days, what are you talking about.
@dmoore76 you are correct black. people are not monolithic. i was reaching a little. and emotionalism is not a bad thing. what i tend to see in today's church is a group of people who tend have been conditioned. where the choir and the preacher entertain the people. entertainment has been substituted for joy. i don't see cone as a better than type person. as he spoke i could sense a deep loneliness and frustration with some of those on the stage...
No change, just si se puede.
@dmoore76
engaged and I encourage all believers to research the scriptures for themselves and pray for wisdom but as the mind is fed, the spirit needs to be fed. There has to be a balance. As far as Cone is concerned....He is definitely an intelligent man but I do not know if he is necessarily saved. When you feel that you are superior to any other group of ppl, that spirit is not of God.
dmoore: i want you to tell me, because you might see revelations in one way and i might see it in a another .
@selfexplanitory
wow what my brother?
Amen! Amen! Amen! Man this is so true until my PC is about to get off the desk!
Midiman
@matthew11and25
liberation--outkast
read Revelations
@dmoore76
Faith is not contigent on tangibility.
the 'bottomline' is what do you mean by 'religion not solving anything in our communities". What basis is there for UR assumption that the black church (in particular) has to solve ALL the problems as you see them? If people CHOOSE not to follow or act on the orders & advice of the black church how can you blame the church anymore than one would blame a doctor whose patient refuses to take the medication prescribed? The prescription is JESUS- peace, love & forgiveness is the solution & healing
Shieldsff Religion is not doing anything in our Communities. Not anything good. In the 21st century, Religion does not serve a valid purpose. It has become just a money making mechanism for the pastor and his family. If "WE" can't get any good out of it, then why should it even exist? We spend so much time caught up in Religion, that the advancement of the colored person has reached stagnation measures and it's getting worse and worse everyday. Absolutely nothing to feel good about when it comes to Religion for Black people. I hated and many more are beginning to hate it all around the world.
Bishop equated mind with money That is incorrect
godsholywoman,
when you attend that multiracial church, you will encounter some of the same problems. No church is perfect. The church is not like it used to be because we are living in the last days. Revelations outlines the times we are living in.
Eze.22:25 There IS a CONSPIRACY of her prophets in the midst thereof like a roaring lion ravening the prey they HAVE DEVOURED souls they have taken the treasure & precious things they HAVE made MANY widows in the midst thereof. this is describing Blasphamy which is teaching errors (on purpose) of the Holy Ghost/Spirit/WORD read verses 21-31 this is what all those on that panel do evry SUNDAY and sadly so sadly if you would just STUDY the BIBLE according to Isa28 line upon line ect. You would see
Paul Morton has NO CLUE as to what he's talking about...
NYTNinAmerica you my brother are one lost guy. 💯
I know the stupid music really takes away form it. Why in the hell do we need it? They didn't have it when the man was speaking? And its on all the videos.
The clergy has been taught a confounded way. The mind is the heart of the Spirit. There is no division between mind and spirit.
Black Church clergy is confounded in overstanding that the Soul is God. Man is spirit in flesh with the soul of God in him.
The clegry has made God and Man spiritual unequal and impersonal.
The clegry is confounded in their virtual reality of beliefs.
@Yashaabakadawbra an ol black woman hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Great video! Annoying and wack music!
This guy is just so clueless...he says we become soo spiritual, its just Jesus Jesus, Jesus. There's is absolutely nothing spiritual about that. Thats the pure human mind madenning obsession. When you are spiritual you are peacefull you are overcome with a peace that knows not to even define itself, It just IS, pure!!!
Isnt Paul Morton sn adulterer? He should sit down.
And, 80% those seated upon that forum. This man is throwing "shade".
Ase'.
Morton is an entertainer. He also spoke nothing of Christ. Neither could he because the natural man does not understand spiritual things.
Joe black; He's an adulterer
Ase'.