It can. You just look, what the best car is and it is the W11 from 2020. Then you look, which driver was better (Lewis) and there you have your fastest driver. Very simple.
@@marcel1867 It was both. A bad driver cant push the maximum out of the car like lewis did. Same with 2023 and Verstappen. The RB19 is far ahead of the other cars but without Max he woudent be so dominant. The driver matters around 20-30% (depending on the track and weather)
Plenty didn't know who the great Jim Clark , Jim gave Colin Chapman's Lotus it's first win with the new Ford Cosworth DFV V8 engine/chassis car that car & motor set a new standard for F1 for many years Graham Hills car DNF Jim was a awesome driver , watching him drive Lotus Cortinas on three wheels thru corners was something else.
Fangio won 44% of the races he started. The only driver who surpassed that was lee wallard, who competed in the Indy 500 twice when it was a championship event in F1, and he won once, meaning his start to win ratio is 50%. Fangio is undeniably the GOAT
@@myuserisrandom7913 It's always hard to argue that kimi wasn't the fastest ever, I really like him but Senna was just something else, specially in the Era he fought in.
@@jm3011 I mean so was Kimi. He almost took a title from Michael Schumacher during his Ferrari dominance. But bad luck got the best of him. I also wouldn't say that he needed the right car. Vettel has said that Kimi is the most talented driver he has ever seen and would win if there was a category where you swapped cars each lap. During his Maclaren years he also said to the team that there is a hole in the chassis, the team looked for it and said there wasn't a hole. Then after the race back at the factory there was a hole in the exact spot. So he clearly has a really good feeling for the car. He just never seemed like the guy to care about winning that much. He said that it was a hobby. Which I kinda believe. He didn't work hard to be the best. It's hard to say how his legacy would be if he had the same passion as Senna, Shumacher or Verstappen. But his Mclaren years are some of the best in the sport. No doubt about it. 03 and 05 especially. But if we talk about over their careers, yea, Senna is on top. Because he was always great. But he also had the passion to win, unlike Kimi. So it just depends a bit on what you look for in "the fastest of all time" or anything of all time. Do you value consistancy, do you value prime or do you just look at the results? Because depending on what you value, the "best" can be so many different people.
Not even close. It was Newey's car that was fast. When he was teamed up against decent drivers like Seb and a great drive like Alonso, he got killed. It's all silly fanboys who just thinks he's cool.
@@robertwhitten265He didn't have any motivation after winning in 2007, he had nothing left to prove, so he didn't care anymore. That's why he got beat by Seb
@@WuseligerPinguin_SF Get out of here, so many excuses. What about Massa outscoring him in 2.5 years as a teammate. How about getting killed by Alonso. Kimi is all image, adored by kids who like his attitude. Newey proved since 1989 that he can make anyone look fast. Look at Mansell, Seb, Hill, JV, Mika, DC, they are all average drivers who looked fast on Newey's car.
@@robertwhitten265 And what is your proof for all those drivers being average? Also, those are not excuses, they are facts. Huge difference. "It's more like a hobby for me", said Kimi. That's why he didn't really care anymore, it was just his job for him, not his passion.
Alternative finding. The drivers Senna raced against were on average slower then drivers from other eras. The algorithm you give isn’t the complete form. If so it’s got some holes.
Tom Pryce could have been a contender if not for his demise just as he found pace. He was an impressively fast driver , placing his shadow ( a pretty useless car ) in the top ten in almost every race until his death. Gilles and Ronnie P are also solid contenders for the list
A link to the study wouldve been great to list. Unless you have a metric to weigh the differences based on the cars and track layout changes theres no real way to answer this. That being said you possibly could average qualifying times for each track and year to create a ratio of gained or lost average time between previous years. Then multiply that ratio to the time of each driver for the individual tracks over a season and finally average those times. It wouldn't be perfect and wouldn't be a definitive answer but would be the closer you could get. The only true way going forward would be to time each driver in a identical car and never change the car or the track layout. But that wouldn't be F1 then.
Well considering which drivers are following Senna in this ranking, I don’t see this “experiment” as a success. It really just plays with stats which is all it can do.... or the drivers we consider goats are simply not as good as the drivers in that ranking. What the AI doesn’t take into account though, is that some drivers are way better at long distances than a one lap pace. Kind of like the 100 m sprint athletes aren’t the best at 4000m races.
Honestly it’s hard to tell, if u say senna is the quickest it makes sense, cause when senna was racing the cars were smaller, and faster with V8 engines and Being smaller and lighter allowed drivers to be faster in tracks like Monaco, the debate cannot truly be justified as well we gotta predict what the results would be like if we put all the drivers in the GOAT debate in a race with identical cars, in terms of weight, horsepower and even the same dimensions and weather conditions.
Ayrton Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen all have their own strengths and weaknesses and can all be classed as the fastest driver
Max still has what? 5 years? Lots of time to pad his stats. Im not a Max fan either, but this season is kinda nuts and they are getting upgrades next race!
@@SirCodezyy Don’t get me, I don’t like Max, and I can see where your coming from, especially with how things are in the 2022 season. But the Ferrari had the better package for qualifying this season. Also Max had the most pole positions in 2021, and he was always faster then all of his teammates. I don’t like him, but you can’t deny his pace man.
Apart from being incorrect, certainly not definitive, certainly if based on qualifying only. You would only be able to rate it by the fastest speed ever done in their career at a specific m.sec. I'm guessing fastest was Michael Schumacher or Valtri Bottas. Unfortunately F1 cars are slower now than they used to be, even a decade ago.
What did you just call him?....... Also that is one one metric. There are others like Fastest F1 Driver by top speed was Motoya at 231.5 mph Fastest ever pole lap, Hamilton at an average speed of 164.267 mph Or the most fastest laps. Micheal Schumacher at 77. The fact is nobody actually argues about who is the fastest, but who is the greatest, and the only fair way to manage that is by the number of world championships....which puts Hamilton and Schumacher on the same.
It's the same story about who is/was the greatest player of all time. this question should not be asked. Every year the mechanics change, the rules change, the technology changes, the intentions change. In football techniques change, training technology changes, diet changes, equipment changes, intentions change. Every year there is the fastest runner, the best player, the ugliest woman. You can't compare someone from the 60's with someone from today. Not even from 5 years ago.
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Valtteri Bottas went 372.5km/h (231.4mph) in the 2016 Mexican Grand Prix. I think you meant, 'who is the quickest of all time'.
Interesting, thanks for the information!
It’s about who is consistently the fastest, not who holds the record for who has gone the fastest in a formula one car
😂😂😂
@@Sc0tt_e he is explaining how fast is the wrong diction
@@Sc0tt_e It's not about that you'd know that if you'd read before commenting
This sounds like ChatGPT wrote this.
hahaha i said this on a different one of this channels videos
Yea it should be Michael Schumacher
Google 'fastest f1 lap' and it comes up with this lap in monza lol
@@CH3MPION69it shouldnt
Probably is mate
It’s a debate that can never be definitively answered.
Of course, but it cat get you clicks and likes, no matter how many times you upload the same thing
It can. You just look, what the best car is and it is the W11 from 2020. Then you look, which driver was better (Lewis) and there you have your fastest driver. Very simple.
@@Linus-tz2tklol you answered the all time discussion that it was the Merc not Lewis what won everything.
@@marcel1867 It was both. A bad driver cant push the maximum out of the car like lewis did. Same with 2023 and Verstappen. The RB19 is far ahead of the other cars but without Max he woudent be so dominant. The driver matters around 20-30% (depending on the track and weather)
It really also depends on the cars driven as well
but senna could basically drive anything lol
some may think the McLaren's he drove were comparable to the cars Williams made at the time, but theres a big difference, ill just tell you that.
If it weren’t senna, it’d surely be Jim clark
Especially at spa
👍🏻
Plenty didn't know who the great Jim Clark , Jim gave Colin Chapman's Lotus it's first win with the new Ford Cosworth DFV V8 engine/chassis car that car & motor set a new standard for F1 for many years
Graham Hills car DNF
Jim was a awesome driver , watching him drive Lotus Cortinas on three wheels thru corners was something else.
Fangio won 44% of the races he started. The only driver who surpassed that was lee wallard, who competed in the Indy 500 twice when it was a championship event in F1, and he won once, meaning his start to win ratio is 50%. Fangio is undeniably the GOAT
I never had a doubt! RIP Legend❤️😘
Bros forgetting about kimi from 2005-2007
Kimi is super fast when in the right car, but Ayrton was incredible every single time he got into a car.
@@jm3011 Kimi was the fastest driver untill he won the title then he had nothing left to prove.
@@myuserisrandom7913 It's always hard to argue that kimi wasn't the fastest ever, I really like him but Senna was just something else, specially in the Era he fought in.
@@jm3011 I mean so was Kimi. He almost took a title from Michael Schumacher during his Ferrari dominance. But bad luck got the best of him.
I also wouldn't say that he needed the right car. Vettel has said that Kimi is the most talented driver he has ever seen and would win if there was a category where you swapped cars each lap. During his Maclaren years he also said to the team that there is a hole in the chassis, the team looked for it and said there wasn't a hole. Then after the race back at the factory there was a hole in the exact spot.
So he clearly has a really good feeling for the car. He just never seemed like the guy to care about winning that much. He said that it was a hobby. Which I kinda believe. He didn't work hard to be the best. It's hard to say how his legacy would be if he had the same passion as Senna, Shumacher or Verstappen. But his Mclaren years are some of the best in the sport. No doubt about it. 03 and 05 especially.
But if we talk about over their careers, yea, Senna is on top. Because he was always great. But he also had the passion to win, unlike Kimi. So it just depends a bit on what you look for in "the fastest of all time" or anything of all time. Do you value consistancy, do you value prime or do you just look at the results? Because depending on what you value, the "best" can be so many different people.
@@jm3011 not that fast in the Williams after active suspension was banned.
not surprised by me, a brazilian
or any brazilians if im being honest
we already knew
ya because you got so many good drivers in the last 20 years.. oh wait
@@PrefoX drugo
Ruben’s , massa…
When Im trying to reach the minimum word count on the essay
First, it’s not all about being the quickest. Second, the quickest driver was Kimi Raikkonen in 2005.
Prost better but Rest in Peace king.
I KNEW IT!!!! as a brazilian i am immensley proud of the legacy ayrton built himself. fly high king🕊️
*Juan Manuel Fangio laughing in obscure 1950's audio*
ik ik 😂
the old master always gets forgotten...
@@jstefa2 sadly..
😂
Ayrton Senna do Brasil🇧🇷
So glad I got to see him race.
He was incredible.
Kimi in McLaren
Such a shame he never won the wdc in mclaren he was actually blisteringly fast
Not even close. It was Newey's car that was fast. When he was teamed up against decent drivers like Seb and a great drive like Alonso, he got killed. It's all silly fanboys who just thinks he's cool.
@@robertwhitten265He didn't have any motivation after winning in 2007, he had nothing left to prove, so he didn't care anymore. That's why he got beat by Seb
@@WuseligerPinguin_SF Get out of here, so many excuses. What about Massa outscoring him in 2.5 years as a teammate. How about getting killed by Alonso. Kimi is all image, adored by kids who like his attitude. Newey proved since 1989 that he can make anyone look fast. Look at Mansell, Seb, Hill, JV, Mika, DC, they are all average drivers who looked fast on Newey's car.
@@robertwhitten265 And what is your proof for all those drivers being average? Also, those are not excuses, they are facts. Huge difference. "It's more like a hobby for me", said Kimi. That's why he didn't really care anymore, it was just his job for him, not his passion.
Interesting this "Definitive answer" only takes into account speed in qualifying as it's sole metric. It's so definitive.
I knew it before he even said it
The first 4 sentences where the same just said differently
Michael Schumacher
This in my opinion is still undebatable. They had different cars then
Sena was like Leclerc mostly fast only for one lap
Im so glad it is ayrton senna and not some recent driver . Otherwise there would be a bigger debate from this video
Alternative finding. The drivers Senna raced against were on average slower then drivers from other eras. The algorithm you give isn’t the complete form. If so it’s got some holes.
Waited over half the short for that.... Bruh
All credibility just gone after you said "artificial intelligence driven study".🤣
I would say Niki is a contender
was it just me or did i expect the answer to be latifi
There is no answer to this debate, but I can respect Senna in number 1
JPMontoya Monza...
Crazy because he raced most of his career in the US and they dont even mention it!
everyone always forgets Juan Manuel Fangio. the man broke 10 fastest lap records in 11 laps....
1950's...
Tom Pryce could have been a contender if not for his demise just as he found pace. He was an impressively fast driver , placing his shadow ( a pretty useless car ) in the top ten in almost every race until his death. Gilles and Ronnie P are also solid contenders for the list
Ronnie Petrson
*LH44 walking in*
Juan Manuel Fangio joined the chat
And he's crying
@@williamc4309 nahh we all celebrating 🥳
Ayrton senna was faster
@@Benjamine_44 Lewis has the most Pole Positions
He also killed himself trying to keep pace with schumacher
i knew it i said so in my head instantly when u asked the question
Imagine senna in the rb20
I like that you repeated yourself like 4 times in an effort to kill time. Totally not annoying.
Jim Clark laughing in the corner
90% car 10% driver this debate is for the people who dont understand F1.
Me: tutututu MAX VERSSTAPPEN TUTUTUTU MAX VERSTAPPEN
Айртон Сенна 🇧🇷👏
A link to the study wouldve been great to list. Unless you have a metric to weigh the differences based on the cars and track layout changes theres no real way to answer this. That being said you possibly could average qualifying times for each track and year to create a ratio of gained or lost average time between previous years. Then multiply that ratio to the time of each driver for the individual tracks over a season and finally average those times. It wouldn't be perfect and wouldn't be a definitive answer but would be the closer you could get.
The only true way going forward would be to time each driver in a identical car and never change the car or the track layout. But that wouldn't be F1 then.
Kimi in 05
Jim Clarke 😢
Thats a question nobody can answer. Too many variables in it. Senna surely has a run for P1 in this race tho. He was rapid.
Rubens Barichello...
Well considering which drivers are following Senna in this ranking, I don’t see this “experiment” as a success. It really just plays with stats which is all it can do.... or the drivers we consider goats are simply not as good as the drivers in that ranking.
What the AI doesn’t take into account though, is that some drivers are way better at long distances than a one lap pace. Kind of like the 100 m sprint athletes aren’t the best at 4000m races.
Didn’t Bottas go 378 kph in Baku not too long ago?
Honestly it’s hard to tell, if u say senna is the quickest it makes sense, cause when senna was racing the cars were smaller, and faster with V8 engines and Being smaller and lighter allowed drivers to be faster in tracks like Monaco, the debate cannot truly be justified as well we gotta predict what the results would be like if we put all the drivers in the GOAT debate in a race with identical cars, in terms of weight, horsepower and even the same dimensions and weather conditions.
It’s not only hard but impossible to predict what drivers like senna and shumacher would perform like in the modern era of F1
you can’t awnser that
OLEEEE OLEEEE OLEEEEE OLAAAAAA SENNAAAA SENNAAAAA
I think ‘who is the fastest’ is a different debate to ‘who is the goat’
GOATIFI
I thought this was going to be a goatifi joke😂
I was going to say him or Michael Schumacher
Schumacher f2004 Ferrari 💪💪
Fastest
The driver ❌
The car ✅
Skills
The car ❌
The driver ✅
the quality of the drivers were so much lower than nowadays... stupid
Nicholas Goatifi left the chat
I’m the fastest, yet to race.
If mansell had a good enough car he would be he drove them to fast😂
Jim Clark
Apart from Senna its Kimi Raikkonen
There is no answer bc u would need to compare them in the same car
Dude has put way to much filler words in.
Jim Clark “for this era”
Gilles Villeneuve
Ayrton Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen all have their own strengths and weaknesses and can all be classed as the fastest driver
Ronnie Peterson could be up there, very fast driver taken from Formula 1 too early.
Michael Schumacher ❤
As good as Michael is he wouldn't have had as many championships if Aryton Senna survived
@@devynlich00 you can't know cause he did die?!
@yourmirrorimage993 I mean I can say this because Schumacher and Senna did race at the same time but at that time Michael was still new to F1
Kimi was fastest in those years but the car was unreliable
Max still has what? 5 years? Lots of time to pad his stats. Im not a Max fan either, but this season is kinda nuts and they are getting upgrades next race!
Mazepin cuz he finished his debut the fastest
This debate can be done as Nikita mazespin is the fastes
100% Jim Clark
So this fancy AI driven studies is just percentage of poles from total appearances? lol 😂😂😂
Maybe use the average quali position?
Nah senna is fast but for me niki Lauda with the risk they took every race in the 70s lauds is the best in my opinion
"Torpedo"
The GOAT is Vettel
Montoya & kimi
Ayrton or Mika. Everyone else pales in comparison.
I was expecting Hamilton, but Senna has always been his own league. (Don't kill me, I'm a max fan)
And i was expecting max.. i’m lewis fan..
@@viperbladers Bullshit… Max has not once pulled an amazing qualifying session, he nearly did at Jeddah but he crashed
@@SirCodezyy Don’t get me, I don’t like Max, and I can see where your coming from, especially with how things are in the 2022 season. But the Ferrari had the better package for qualifying this season. Also Max had the most pole positions in 2021, and he was always faster then all of his teammates. I don’t like him, but you can’t deny his pace man.
Especially in the rain
Lol. It's something that can never be proven. All different machines, and way too many variables
Its definitely Messi!
Apart from being incorrect, certainly not definitive, certainly if based on qualifying only. You would only be able to rate it by the fastest speed ever done in their career at a specific m.sec. I'm guessing fastest was Michael Schumacher or Valtri Bottas. Unfortunately F1 cars are slower now than they used to be, even a decade ago.
its not even a debate, no doubt its Senna the fastest
HOW IS IT FUCKING FAIR IF EVERYONE HAD A DEF CAR.
Gilles Villnueve. Dude was Cracked
Leclerc
What did you just call him?.......
Also that is one one metric. There are others like
Fastest F1 Driver by top speed was Motoya at 231.5 mph
Fastest ever pole lap, Hamilton at an average speed of 164.267 mph
Or the most fastest laps. Micheal Schumacher at 77.
The fact is nobody actually argues about who is the fastest, but who is the greatest, and the only fair way to manage that is by the number of world championships....which puts Hamilton and Schumacher on the same.
Fernando Alonso with Renault that have in that time the 3th best car behind McLaren and Ferrari and he won 2 world cups
Goat
Comparing all the drivers who’s the fastest is stupid.
Senna.
Also Americans need to leave our sport alone.
It's the same story about who is/was the greatest player of all time. this question should not be asked. Every year the mechanics change, the rules change, the technology changes, the intentions change.
In football techniques change, training technology changes, diet changes, equipment changes, intentions change.
Every year there is the fastest runner, the best player, the ugliest woman. You can't compare someone from the 60's with someone from today. Not even from 5 years ago.
it’s actually Nicholas Latifi
Actually we must put every driver in equal cars and then we will answer the question
Bruh leclerc gonna beat that pole tally but will have less wins than Lewis has titles 😢
Leclerc fastest qualifier