I think videos like these that are more for the normal, every day rider, is what's needed. MOST of us are just hobby riders and don't want or need to spend a fortune on a bike, but it is so hard to sort out what's important and what's not so important to spend extra money on for a everyday, all around bike.
I really think a 1600 aluminum bike serves as a great bike, and you can destroy anyone with the appropriate fitness, and obnoxious kit. I just don't think the added money is worth it, I am even going back to aluminum on my mtb. Get out ride your bike and have fun.
@@frankchan5547 You can always upgrade for cheaper since you can hunt for used parts. I literally got a used 3D printed Fizik saddle for 70% off from a $400 MSRP for my gravel bike.
@@cjohnson3836 I wondered about the contact points, better saddle, decent grip tape, better bars. It may not take much at all to significantly improve the ride experience. It could potentially include what it would take to make it more road ride friendly if the user was to take it for a sportive or other road based event.
@@rustymac83 Those are hard as they're not upgrades so much as personal fitting. I ride a $30 synthetic saddle that, for me, is orders of magnitude more comfortable than the $130 CF saddle I'm now trying to sell. So you can't even necessarily say its a cheap vs expensive thing.
Scott doesn't get the respect it deserves. They do make quality bikes and they do innovate whereas I feel a lot of the other brands play it safe and copy the trends. Besides, Scott bikes are SOOOOOOO beautiful looking
Like the format. Like that you both provide good reasons when providing opinions on the various aspects of the bike. I think adding a 3,000 pound version for comparison would be great! You both did a nice job.
Silca.. good choice. From what I can tell this is a serious company. Meaning they won't sell any kinda of crap just to make profit. Silca sincerely strives for quality in all the things they sell. Respect.
I think you could probably upgrade the cheap bike to make it feel significantly more comfortable, while still keeping the total price under £3000. Stuff like tubeless, better tyres, new saddle and handlebars could already make a massive difference and get it much closer to the feel of the expensive bike.
Tubeless won't make any difference as such. Better wheels (especially this), tyres (especially this too), saddle, lighter handlebars, stem and seatpost. You won't believe how huge difference wheels and tires can make, focusing onl;y on this aspect gives you totally different bike.
You could easily knock 2-300g off with some new not to expensive wheels. Wheels on low price bikes are often near 2kg combined. It would be interesting to see how much you need to spend to get it below 10kg.
@@ekrano to get my stock 1300$ Kross Vento 5.0 105 disc from 9.3 kg to sub 8 kg i needed to spend : 100$ on tubeless tires/tire sealant/tape and valves. 700 $ on discounted 40mm carbon wheelset (1580g) about 150$ for high end carbon seatpost, also discounted. About 150$ for lightweight fizik saddle. About 100$ for very lightweight 3T stem and about 150$ for 38 cm Vision Metron handlebars. Something about 1300$ in additional cost to transform this bike into totally different machine. Total price 2600$, 7.8 kg no pedals no bottles, 8.2 kg with pedals/bottles/saddle bag/garmin/sensors/lights and guarantee that all parts are top notch.
@@michadebicki6534 Get Elite wheels on black friday for about 800 euro. They weight 1300 grams. Even better deal. All the items listed can be found secondhand for half the price. Pretty cheap to transform a alu bike. But at that point i'd rather buy a Chinese frame (including carbon 1 piece cockpit + seatpost) for 550 euro's on velo-build.
@@YannickLB quality alloy frame will be overall much better in terms of handling, road feel and stiffness balance compared to cheap carbon frame and will offer pretty much the same ride quality as medium-level carbon frame. Any real difference and advantage for carbon will be between high end carbon frame versus quality alloy. I rode and raced them all still having a good or bad day makes much bigger difference for the final outcome than any tech in the bike I could possibly have.
Yes, thank you for mentioning Sora and Tiagra. It seems far too many people forget about how big these groupsets are and immediately jump to 105 and above. My first bike was a Sora (and Microshift) build and my commuter bike was Tiagra, both incredible pieces of kit for the money, and I’d bet a big part of Shimano’s sales. Look forward to some future videos on them…
My experience of the "cheap" vs expensive is quite a bit different so I suspect this is one of those situations where the results of other comparisons would vary a lot. I'm currently riding a 2013 Giant Defy 1. That's an aluminum frame with carbon fork and seat post. It originally came with a mix of 105 and unlabeled Shimano components. I've upgraded everything that wasn't to 105 and put much better wheels on. The best part was everything I added, with the exception of the wheels which I bought used, was second hand new...components people had bought for projects and never got to them...so effectively new but at very reasonably prices. This past fall I had an opportunity to spend a few hours riding a 2022 Defy 1 I was considering buying. (It had been a rental from a local shop and they clear out their rental fleet at the end of each season.) Full carbon and full (mechanical) Ultegra. The cost of the new bike would have been about 5 times what I paid for my older bike. The difference? The shifting on the new Ultegra was simply glorious...just incredibly smooth and quick. Everything else? Meh. Perhaps I just don't ride far enough or fast enough, or I am just not sophisticated enough to detect the differences, but there wasn't much in it. I dream about finding a bike that is as big a leap ahead as my Defy was from it's predecessor, but the upshot is I'm still riding my 2013 bike. I'd love a new one, and I'd love to have that Ultegra groupset, but for now I'll spend the money on trips with the old bike.
As a lifestyle choice, I think you are spot on: better have some spare money to spend on actually using the bike and maybe more time cause some frugality allowed fir cutting back of work hours than having a priced possession that you don't have time using. And that stresses you out cause everything that breaks/wears out is so expensive, so you'll end up enjoying yourself less.
I agree almost entirely. My bike is a 20 year old cannondale alloy cx frame with a headshock, which comes in at 11.6kg. Unfortunately, it can only accommodate rim brakes. Apart from that, I'd ride it forever. So I'm on the lookout for something else, still alloy, but hydro discs so I can stop when it rains.
Totally agree on your comments about modern Tiagra. It may be 10 speed, but works just as nice as 105 or Ultegra. A new bike buyer than can test ride different options will see for themselves.
Agreed. I switch between bikes from 9 to 11speed and the only difference I see is if you are picky on cadance. Other than that I see no gains. Smooth shifting comes from proper tuning.
GRX groupsets - totally agree. Great around performance. I mean I love my Di2 on my road bike but I never feel like anything isn't working absolutely bang on the money when I'm out on the gravel / winter bike (£1800 orbea Terra) - pound for pound its an absolute belter.
Great vid. I have a 2021 Cube Nuroad EX gravel bike that was about £1700 when I brought it.. I immediately ditched the home branded wheels and brought (eventually 3 pairs!) new hoops with the main ones being DT Swiss GR1600s and some Mavic all road pros while of course making them tubeless. Bar tape, saddle and chain were also swapped out to parts I trust and like.. It rides like a far more expensive bike now despite only changing the points of which I touch on the bike and where it touches the road. The 3 sets of wheels have varying Shwalbe G-one tires varying from Allroads to ultra bites to use depending on weather/terrain I am riding on... One thing I also did was change the standard Shimano brake pads to ceramic pro ones made by Disco brakes. A mega cheep upgrade that improves the performance massively. Final note.. As an ex MTB racer and someone who has toyed with road bikes for 35 years I LOVE gravel bikes and in fact find it faster on bumpy towpaths and mild single track to my mountain bikes.
Brilliant. I normally bore of this type of chat about the ins and outs of which equipment is better than which. But you treated it fairly and meaningfully. I would welcome stuff like this. And you've got me inspired to design a bike for myself. I'll start with a good, light frame and equip it with mid-range components such as Tiagra which you mentioned. That could be the sweet spot. The biggest trick for me would be to find a suitably lightweight frameset and wheels on a low budget.
I got Addict Gravel 30, which is the fourth in line, with GRX800/GRX600, plus Zipp303s. That is just below 3000 pounds bike. I would say up to this level, the difference in performance is huge, but from 30 (with carbon wheels) to Tuned, it must be pretty close.
I have the same Addict 30 with Zipp 303s’ and I couldn’t agree more. Difference can’t be much from the tuned overall. Such a great road and gravel monster.
I’m riding a 2017 Scott Speedster Gravel 10 since new. 105 everything. 50/34 chainring. 11-34 11spd cassette. 35-622 WTB Exposure 34 in the rear. 37-622 WTB Byway 40 up front. Stock seat, stock bars. Honestly it’s been great. It’s been my main bike. I feel like I got my money’s worth out of it. I just did a 75km gravel trail this week on it. Light gravel or gravel paths or trails is the extent of it for me. Just need enough tire to feel confident cornering in the gravel at speed for me. Once I go past 35c in the rear I find it to be more sluggish than I like. I use a 1x XC for offroad and chunky dirt roads. And a basic 3x steel hybrid on the daily around town that I don’t worry about locking up.
I got the 2021 scott speedster with a Tiagra group set. The have made it more gravel-ish in over two years, terms of tire clearance, geometry (and handlebar). My version is pretty aggressive and „raw“, for a gravel bike but Scott offers very good performance for the money
I actually own an EQ version of Speedster Gravel from last year. With fenders and all, it is even heavier. However, it was a very conscious decision, and with a few likewise planned upgrades (including going tubeless with the biggest tires the frame would swallow) it is a bike that can be nicked and banged, takes on a beating and keeps on coming. Removable rear rack, frame bag, bento box, and it is a hell of a commuter that you won't be too scared to lock to a post somewhere in the town. What you've said about the groupsets, I can only agree with. The 4700 series Tiagra that came on mine is such a satisfactory ride! Threw on a bigger cassette in the back to get at least a bit of "minus" gearing, found a deal on hydraulic brakes with levers, and the damn thing just sails through anything for 3000km already. City, Gravel, light singletrack, snow and sleet in the winter, ridiculous cobblestone descents... You CAN be satisfied with a cheaper bike.
I have a 2022 Scott Speedster Gravel 20. Great bike. I changed the saddle to a SELLE ITALIA SLR Boost Superflow TM that I had previously purchased (also in 2022). I will also change the wheels to carbon ones (this is the basic change). In some time I will change the seat post to a carbon one and maybe the steering wheel, because I don't quite like its geometry in a low grip. It can be lightweight aluminum. After these minor changes, the bike will weigh 9.5 kg. Size S
Excellent video Francis! Have been scouring YT for in-depth info on the Scott Speedster Gravel range especially for geometry comparisons but this by far is the most info I’ve got on the bike. May I suggest the following upgrades to bring down the weight substantially? 1. Parcours wheelset - For my riding, I would choose the 1,400gm Ronde with the Hutchinson Overide 38mm tyres (tubeless, of course!) to save a bit more weight while retaining functionality. Standard X25 wheels are approx. 2100gm. 2. Carbon seatpost - More comfort, slight weight saving. 3. Carbon handlebar/handlebar-stem combination - Again, more comfort, slight weight saving. 4. Selle Italia saddle - Definitely one of the best around, I personally use the Selle Italia SLR Boost Endurance, the one you use is lighter still. 5. If you had to go all the way and really make it a focused build for a particular type of riding then a single Rotor crank. Even without number 5, I reckon that this could be a shade under 10kg but with a vastly more comfortable ride quality. Looking forward to a future build and as always, amazing content man!
Im glad you have done this comparison. I've got the Speedster Gravel 20. It's pretty much the same as the 30 and has an 11 speed groupset. I've swapped out the saddle and handlebars and bought a carbon wheelset. I've saved over 1kg, which is great.
As I wrote above, I have Scott Speedster Gravel 20 as well. 2022. Great bike. I changed the saddle to a SELLE ITALIA SLR Boost Superflow TM that I bought earlier (also in 2022). I plan to change the wheels to carbon ones (this is a basic change). In some time I will change the seatpost to a carbon one and maybe the steering wheel, because I don't quite like its geometry with a low grip. It can be a lightweight aluminum handlebar. After these minor changes, the bike will weigh 9.5 kg. Size S
I ride a Cannondale SuperSix with 105, and having never owned anything better than my dad's 40-odd year old Raleigh Record Ace, it absolutely blew my mind. The shifting is almost instant, the brakes are strong as I'd ever need, it works well enough that having never ridden anything Ultegra or Dura-ace or whatever, I'm genuinely not sure what (if any) noticeable difference there would be.
9:00 I thought the same when I got my TCR that came with a Vibe 7S. The sabertooth-shaped drops were unusable, even with a 70mm stem. I went to a PLT Ergo with drops that extended parallel to the ground and they are significantly more comfortable even with a 130mm stem.
I have a marin gestalt gravel bike with 2x9 sora groupset and i absolutely love it! It gets the job done both on and off road so I would definitely agree that the cheaper groupsets are overlooked
The Eagle AXS casettes are like $500, the XPLR are like $225. You save a few grams. You can change the 'sponginess' of SRAM brake distance with a set screw (depends on the line where the screw is), but my brakes are as snappy as your GRX in the video. It is really quick to do, you can pratically do it while riding. This is generally in the instructions that people throw away because they think they know better.
I own a Genesis CDA 20, aluminum frame, steel fork, swapped up the wheels for a DT Swiss Gr 1800 Spline pair, Conti Terra Trail 40 mm tubeless tires and Shimano Sora 2x9 with mechanical disc brakes. I’ve had it for 3 years now and taking into consideration that i was a total beginner cyclist when i bought it and that i am an okay cyclist now, i’d really like upgrading to a higher end bike. Never the less, my Genesis has been miss handled, beaten to the dirt, the gravel and untamed roads and i’ve gotta say i have rarely felt limitations. I ride with other people and my cheap bike doesn’t stop me from winning sprints and hills against dentists who own a 3000-4000€ worth gravel bike 😁 mine was worth 800€ when i bought it.
I was riding a circa 2006 road bike until about a year ago, thinking "I don't need a new road bike, there just isn't that much difference". The bike fits me well and doesn't seem to hold me back on group rides. But, with that bike now well past 15 years old and on its 2nd, 3rd or 4th iteration of components, I finally broke down and purchased a new road bike with all the new goodies, wide / carbon rims and wide tires, disc brakes, Di2. I went on to get a 3D printed saddle, new stem and bars (to fit my body better) and swapped out the 52-36 chainrings for a 50-34 combo (quite hilly where I live). Making all of these changes had me questioning if I would have been better off just buying a frame and building it up exactly how I wanted, and if I were to do it again, I probably would go that route. Anyhow, with the bike completely dialed in and $10K US into my investment, I NEVER ride the old bike any more. The new bike is just about perfect. OK, did I need to spend as much as I did? Probably not, but I don't care, I love the new bike, fits me like a glove and it's flexible enough to do both road and gravel. I have ridden crap bikes for long periods of time in the past, and there is nothing wrong with that. You get out there, do your reps, get fit, have fun. With that said, the experience of riding my new roadie has provided some new perspective.
Very interesting indeed. I upgraded my touring bike to 2 x 10 speed Tiagra, had to get the GRX rear derailleur due to Tiagra cable pull being different to all other 10 speed (STI levers). It is great, reliable, sound, slightly clunkier than 105 but not so much that I regret buying it - and the cost was WAY cheaper than 105. For my money the 10 speed GRX with Tiagra shifters is plenty workable, on an awesome frame with great wheels I think it would make a formidable bike that would be a better option in terms of cost while retaining the lovely (yes lovely) performance of the higher end frame.
GRX 400 levers are pretty much tiagra with hydro brakes. Slightly beefier hoods but honestly it’s fine. Not brilliant but fine. I think the comparison here was done well. Because an 1800 gravel is a usualy an good solid bike. 1 tier down and you really start to get into crappy builds. That said my merida 400 rentals have great bartape.
Get the cheap one, upgrade the parts and you'll have a premium bike for a fraction of the costs. Like with my Sora equipped alloy frame gravel bike a few upgrades later, 1x, XT-Ultegra mullet setup, the weight is 8.62kg. And the frame is more durable than a carbon one. Ride feel is incredible.
Content of this sort is exactly what folks need to see. While I drool over so many of the incredible bikes I've seen on Francis' and Jimmy's respective channels, they are simply outside of my financial reality. Added is the physical reality of weighing 98 kilos; I have to be far more circumspect about rider weight allowances and braking power. Finding the sweet spot between performance, durability, and price is incredibly confusing in the current market.
I absolutely hammered a a new Tiagra groupset on an old Scott Roadster (2007 frame I think?) that I rebuilt in 2019. I took that bike everywhere road, knarly gravel, bike packing, well over 2000miles and it never failed me (other than pads, chain, cassette / consumables etc.). It's so overlooked.
Nice video guys ! I run a Giant ALX mtb with shimano and a carbon cinelli Zydeco gravel bike with campagnolo groupset . Both completely different in terms of riding . Gravel bike doubles up as a road bike and mtb great for real off road 👍
Parcours tubeless wheels, same tyres as the addict tuned, a carbon bar & seatpost, a saddle of your choice, and you're not far off that £3k bike. That's where the sweetspot is - perhaps add a GRX 11 speed mech to go 1x with an 11-42 10 speed cassette to make it as close to the carbon bike. Pull ratios for 11 speed mech and 10 speed levers were the same for my Tiagra 4700 shifters and R7000 derailleur
Water Lane in Ryton, that’s my mates house on the top of the bank. Just a mile away from me. Nice seeing you ride along the Keelman’s & round the Willows.
Interesting comment regarding Tiagra and Sora groupsets at the end. I've had Tiagra and Ultegra on road bikes and they're both great. It comes down to indexing and adjustment. My gravel bike has GRX and I'm always fiddling with the cable tension!
incidentally i ride a scott gravel speedster 30 (2020 model). nothing to complain, frankly. now that i've replaced saddle and handlebars, i can't wait for the weather to get warmer.
The black tape looks much better than the white tape! Never get the cheap one! If you do, you’ll eventually buy the expensive one anyway. I ride a Sage Titanium Barlow frame with GRX 800 mechanical shift (11 speed) one by, a Chris King bottom bracket (T47) and head set. The wheels are Roval Terra C with Panaracer Gravel King SS @35mm. I ride less on gravel than pavement. They’re quite fast on the road and hard pack conditions but not so good for mud. If it’s muddy I stay home which is more of a option in Southern California than the UK except when you were here!😂 We’re having the coldest and wettest winter we’ve had in quite a few years. My bars are Roval Terra and probably have the shortest reach and drop of any carbon bar and are very comfortable. The stem and seat post are Thomson Elite. Very strong! This build is a bit over $6000.
There is a fix for the spongey Sram brakes. I battled with them for two years. My LBS spoke with Sram and worked out a fix that finally made them crisp braking. They were thrilled to figure out the fix. I was glad to finally have brakes that worked.
I run 2 bikes mainly: Planet x free ranger carbon frame. (9.5/10kg) mullet setup with some rival component, force 1 cranks, eagle gx chain ring, e13 11s 9-46 cassette with 650b tubeless 50or52-584 tyres and ritchey venture comp pro bars Dahon smooth hound, alumunium frame (8-8.3kg) 1x 9 sora rt3000 with praxis carbon cranks/4iii powermeter, force1 chainring 50T, 11-34 9s XT cassette, 32-406 tyre and ritchey venture pro comp bars
I can relate to the brakes... my Sram Force Etap Levers are always troubling me, like after every 1500km i have to do something, like bleeding, or seting up the range differently and never felt or braked as good as my shimanos.... with my 2 years old Shimano 105 wich have been ridden for 14000km i just had to change brakepads, thats it. It just works
Fantastic Episode - Hands Down, Excellent Just seeing Jimmy's face was worthy of an $8,000 price tag Now here in Colorado, it was literally impossible to purchase a Scoot Bike. Scott doesn't wholesale from the UK and you MUST go through a bike shop. That Totally Blows!! Because of you FC and your videos, I tried in 2021 and half of 2022 to locate a Scott Addict 20 or 30 Gravel. Forget It So I purchased the RIBBLE SL Gravel. I am only bring this up because the tires and rims were tubeless ready but shipped with a tube. I did pay the bike shop $28 US dollars per wheel to switch over. I am very pleased with the ride and the "standard" parts are top shelf. Again, my point is that this episode kicks A$$ and is very entertaining. Well Done Boys, Cheers
Had the same issue with Shimano XT brakes Vs SRAM level ultimates. The Ultimates I couldn't get to not be spongy, took it to bike shop who set it up properly with the bleed block and still half a lever of travel before any braking, shop overfilled them and now they finally feel right. Going back to the Shimanos with servowave takes some getting used to after riding with SRAMs that are setup properly and I end up locking up a lot on the first few rides, but they are much better once used to them because they take so little effort compared to SRAM. I think the carbon levers also have more flex in them which adds to the spongy feel.
On my cheap carbon winter bike I found it a really harsh ride and was upset with myself for not spending a bit more for a quality frame. Then I tried the VCLS seatpost from my summer canyon on it and transformed the ride completely. Now I WANT to ride it rather than feel like I have to when it’s wet. It also has a Frankenstein group set with SRAM force levers and brakes, Rival mech & cassette, GRX chainset with 105 left side power meter, Ultegra pedals & KMC chain. Works just as well as when it had a full Force groupset!
I ride a Sonder Camino Ti with SRAM force axs , which I recently rode at coed y brenin mtb park and I love it, I need to sap the seat post out for a carbon post, and I would love some carbon hunts but I love the bike
A lump of chromoly steel gravel Vitus bike bought for £1k from wiggle in 2017, then gradually upgraded to grx800, with tubeless 650B wheels, 2.0" tubeless tyres, zero carbon parts and it weighs the same 11kg, WTF Scott???
Interesting one, law of diminishing returns really. Would like to see that 3k GBP bike compared to the 8k GBP one. I personally think the 3k bike will be best bang for your buck 👍
I currently ride a 2021 scott grave speedster with a ultegra swap and gator skin tires. Personally i think this is the perfect set up of road/light gravel riding. I am able to keep up just fine with my carbon road buddies and gravel junkies. Also great for long endurance rides!
I'm a London Cycle Courier and I use a Tiagra groupset (disc) with a Fyxation Quiver frame, which is a gravel design if you're not familiar with it. Tiagra is decent but you have to keep an eye on the calibration and the chainwheel selection mechanism broke internally but tbf that was probably after around 18,000 miles heavy use although it shouldn't really happen. After a bit of haggling with a side-order of charm I got this replaced on warranty. It happened to the gear selector too but my mechanic fixed it himself with a bit of ingenuity. I'm probably not a good example as I do incredibly high mileages each week compared to commuters and weekend mamil's. But when someone who reckoned he knew a thing or two said to me "Tiagra is sh*t", I just replied he had no idea and was mistaken. I got a discount (Courier perk!) on the groupset but in my world it was still quite a lorra money! Love the channel 👍😁.
Your remark about replacement costs is very important on a mtb/cross/gravel bike. I remember how fast the components on my cross bike would deteriorate in one winter season. Just a few races. So glad I was running cheap 9-speed stuff. It lasts longer and is much cheaper to replace.. On one course, many expensive bikes where shedding their deraillers in the mud. My trusty Deore derailler was fine. Well, gravel is not mud or cross..
Great video Francis! I've been on and off watching your channel for a few years and I have to say they've been getting even more amazing every month. I'm now watching pretty much all of them these days. Definitely agree with some other comments here - great analysis, and it would be great to see a follow-up video throwing a mid-range bike in the mix.
I have a speedster gravel 30 with 2x11 GRX and love it. Changed the saddle but otherwise kept stock. My mate has a mid range carbon gravel bike, cracked seat stays after a few months and has to wait 6 months for his replacement frame. IMO alloy is the way to go for off-road
Just been able to get hold of GRX 815 - the Di2 2X group set that has been unobtainable due to supply chain issues for a couple of years. Now thinking about a frameset to put it all on. I currently ride a 2020 Specialized Diverge Sport but I've ridden it on a fair few long multi day bikepacking rides now so I'm thinking of going for either a new DIverge frameset or a Trek Checkpoint SL frameset. My Roval Terra C wheel set will migrate over too and I'll get the Pro DIscover bar and stem to run the wires and hoses internally. My old Diverge Sport will then transition to a road bike...
Thank you for the excellent content. At the moment I would recommend the Stevens Camino Pro carbon, to every gravler (with a 1-speed crank). Weight 8.5 kg, Easton EC90 SL Carbon crank and Shimano GRX 810 / 812 components. Wheels DT Swiss G 1800 Sline. For 3099 euros (2730 pounds)
Riding gravel on an old 2014 Giant tcx allux 2 slr frame. Wheels are alloy rims with dt swiss 240 hubs and a xd driver. Just build it up with sram rival axs shifters and an sram eagle axs deraileur and a 10-50 casette. Loving it. Tires are gravelking ss 38mm setup Tubeless with orangeseal. Zero flat wheels in two years 🤞. Keeping up and the cost of the build. Is 1400 £. And i have a spare groupset to sell. The crankset is an old one, a Shimano 5700 10 speed, but i have mounted a narrowwide woolftooth 42t chainring to it. Doing the job just fine.
I have a earlier Gravel bike that came with Sora, I’ve over the last 5 years upgraded the groupset to get hydraulic braking, and last year new wheels to go tubeless both where dramatic upgrades. The gearing is barely noticeable, slightly better range with Tiagra cassette 34 vs 32/11 both shifted well.
for most people $2,000 worth of bike is PLENTY of bike. even doing grand fondos, and crits. and this is from a bloke who has a $6k titanium gravel/ all road bike that takes up to 47mm 700c tires or 650 x 2.1" - and has two carbon wheelsets. for nearly 1/3 to 1/2 the price I could have had a bike that worked basically the same - but we all fall victim to vanity and consumerism. Also that Scoot seems heavy AF for $8,000....8.2kg ?? My titaniun bike with a full GRX 810 mechanical and carbon wheels is like 7.8kg...
Great video guys! 2 years ago, I brought a vitus gravel bike, spec’ed with sram apex. Love the bike, except the brakes. I've always riden Shimano, never had an issue, but these sram apex brakes never feel quite right. Even after multiple bleeds, switching to uberbikes pad, etc, etc.
I bought my 2021 Cannondale Topstone 1 Alloy for $2300. Shimano GRX 11 speed group set. The WTB rims came taped which was nice. At that price point my budget allowed me to buy Garmin Rally XC200 pedals which I like very much.
I like Jimmy's "if you can ride the more expensive one, do it!" I've gotten so used to my road bike being under 7kg that I've had to rethink other bikes & what's acceptable to me. I'm also getting older and I don't have the same power & time to ride as I did.
100% agree. I ride a titanium gravel bike on the road n the winter and summer off road. My normal road bike is a Pinarello frameset I got in the sale and built up with di2, carbon everything and its under 7kg. There is a huge huge difference in the feel and quality of using the bike.
I've been riding gravel since gravel became "a thing". I've not bought a carbon gravelbike, but have experimented with steel and titanium. I was fortunate to buy al;l three bikes right before Covid and the "supply chain issues". I've used 105-5800 frankenbike setups , now called "mullet" with mtb casettes and Roadlink adapters, and 1x and 2x. I like the GRX setup best, with a 2x GRX 600 on the newest Lynskey GR300 bike, which cost just over $3000. when I bought it. I like it very much, and have bought two extra wheels sets so I can run road, gravel 700 and gravel/mtb 650b. It is super versatile, and I don't think I hit 8000 yet for all three bikes. I'm disgusted with the bike industry and the prices I see thesde days. The cheaper Scott bike is a good place to start, needs on;y mintor upgrades and most people can't begin to afford the "better" bike anyway.
£400 for a cassette! Components are getting too expensive, mid range equipment for me. I have a Merckx alloy frame with Campag Daytona 10 speed, Chorus carbon chainset, Campag Zondas. My other summer bike is a Flandria CSSF with Campag Centaur black red, Fulcrum (Zonda) wheels. Love them both.
I think the difference maker is the carbon and more specifically the carbon layup on more expensive frames. can make different parts of the frame stiffer or more supple to absorb some vibration and flex where they need to. and they can be so light too.
Very Good!! I back in the 70s I would buy a custom frame and average group set and I really liked the ride. I find it difficult to find a deal on a good frame that could be built up like the old days. The frame cost is close to a bike cost yet the choices for biking are so complex. I look for parts and try putting various combinations together. I agree with your saddle,bar and tires. The best point you made I think is the cost of ridding with expensive part for all parts just need to be replaced and repaired. I do my own work but still very expensive for tools and parts.
I was looking at the Scott Speedster Gravel for my new bike but went with the Orbea Terra H30 1x instead - slightly more expensive but been great so far.
Bombtrack Hook EXT (bought for 2800€) : steel frame with a Rival 1 groupset. Changed the freehub body for an XD one. I quite like the smallest cog at 10t, gives quite a bit more range than the 11t Shimano uses as a smallest cog.
Great videos, but can we have a repeat with both bikes on the same tyres, and pressure (tubeless) as I can't help but feel that a great deal of what you were feeling was down to this. Sure the £8k bike is better, but I think you over emphasised it in this very entertaining video.
like the format and conclusions - I have a mid range Canyon Grail cf SL 7 with carbon frame and GRX 800/600 sells for $2700 and is the sweet spot - upgraded wheels with Hunt gravel race for $500 and weight down to 8kg - agree I wouldn’t spend more on an off-road bike
great Vid. i have a 2023 addict gravel 30 on back order & cant wait to see where the mid level bike sits. i have a wheel upgrade + 1x set up ready to go & am interested in the carbon bar stem combo to throw on it. & yes I have owned a few Scotts & the stock syncros seats & me never get along
Really dreamed of getting a Scott Addict Gravel for a long time. It's just not readily available where I.'m from sadly plus the sizing is just too large. But really great to see these bikes in action. Currently running a Ceepo Rindo as my main bike and love it. Keep at it mates. Cheers! Ride safe.
Running GRX 2x10 with Tiagra shifters and Shimano canti brakes on my Cross Check, and they're fantastic. Most of the time I ride with the clutch off either because I've forgotten about it or I just don't need it. That front derailleur was a pain to find in stock last year, though.
I liked this video-format. The Canyon Inflite AL was a super nice 1500€ alloy bike. It weights below 9kg and came with a nice sram 1-11 and carbon fork. Luckily I grabbed one in 2019 because the alloy version inflite was discontinued last year. I have risen thousands of kilometres on it and find that it rides super nice. And the price was even in 2019 great for a below 9 kg bike.
Format is good being able to swap bikes with someone else and have a second view point. My bike runs Tiagra x2 ten speed with a Shimano CX chainset and TRP cable disc brakes. Bike I'm building is a very mixed bag of Tiagra, GRX, XT and TRP work in progress.
The alloy bike in this case is a tubeless conversion away from being a bike you can just ride forever without upgrade, you have the basics of hydraulic brakes, clutch derailleur and decent gearing for climbs and the ability to run decent width tires.
I Liked the comparison, some very interesting insights. Currently riding: - 2021 carbon Canyon Ultimate CF SL 7, rim brake, 25mm Continental GrandPrix tires, just under 8kg - 2011 Giant XR1 Roam (my 'winter bike', a sort of hybrid) Straight handle bars, with Shimano Deore XT 3x9 - stuck in the big ring, so actually a 1x9 - with hydraulic Magura rim brakes and 42 mm Pathfinder Pro tires ~ 12.5 kg (wild guess)
I have a first generation aluminium Cannondale Topstone with SRAM Apex 1x, it cost around £1500 and whilst it’s not super light I have no fears about sending it over rough terrain and breaking something. All the components aren’t too expensive to replace and the frame is tough, my one complaint is that the Apex 1 brakes are awful (in comparison to those on my road bike) and every time I ride I wish they were better. If I wanted to go faster I’d get fitter, but also I’d be spending more and getting a carbon bike that’s lighter and probably a bit aero. The value for money between £1500 and £2500 is amazing right now!
I just built up a Stormchaser with GRX600 mated to XT derailleur, on a Sunrace 11-50t cassette, and RaceFace cranks for about $2400US/1900BP. Yes the combination works. I used a tanpan inline pull converter and to get the extra reach on the derailleur replaced the shimano direct mount with a goatlink11. Hell of a lot cheaper than electronic.
Been riding Shimano Tiagra on my last three bikes. Have the latest version with hydraulic breaks and it amazing! Frame Cannondale Synapse Carbon S1 from 2021/2 I think.
Very interesting video, love the format. I bought an aluminium canyon roadlite 7 with Ultegra last year. Tubeless, flat bars and 9 kilos it's one of the best bikes I have ever owned. It cost €1400.
The answer is then, change the bars and tape, remove the front mech, convert to tubeless and put on slightly wider tyres on the £1800 bike. One could put lighter parts on it if one wishes, but the 1x convert will get it to under 11kgs (if you are sensible with the tl fluid).
A nice addition would be comparing stock tyres to then matching the tyres of the two bikes so it eliminates getting a fair comparison between the two machines. I ride two gravel bikes with 40mm and 45mm tyres so know there is quite a difference in ride quality.
Great vid! I'd be curious to see if carbon seatpost, handlebars and wheels would change the way this 1 800 bike feels. Is it worth to buy carbon parts for an alloy bike? And compare it to good set of tubeless tyres - which is better investment? And what happens, if you combine carbon parts and good tyres?
I run used cannondale caadx cantilever 10spd 105 Cx bike for all around purposes, cx races, gravel riding. With spare sets of wheels and tires. Is more than enough as a do it all bike. Moreover, I got it from a guy who bought it in the uk. Had to change front and back brakes with each other to make it “the right way” :P Road is bought used for less than 1000£ canyon endurace 2017 ultegra, Carbon everything right now after few my upgrades. Buy used and upgrade. I am 80kg guy doing on both bikes around 6000km a year. After 2 years of ownership I didn’t break them. They ride great. If I win lottery I’ll buy top of the shelf factor with ceramic everything otherwise don’t need more🚴🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Great video! I’m amazed I bought a €1999 cube c62 nuroad one with grx 600/800 1x12 and carbon frame, seatpost and steering wheel. Compared to this Scott bike..
I have a Marinoni racing bike with an Ultegra group set , however I just bought an electric gravel bike a Devinci gravel bike it has a GRX group set both group sets are great, the Devinci is just like yours an climbs hills great as I use the electric assist cuz the bike is weighs close to 20 kg
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I think videos like these that are more for the normal, every day rider, is what's needed. MOST of us are just hobby riders and don't want or need to spend a fortune on a bike, but it is so hard to sort out what's important and what's not so important to spend extra money on for a everyday, all around bike.
@@frankchan5547 Agreed but imho Start with the tires first. Good tires are a huge benefit to every type of bike and rider.
I really think a 1600 aluminum bike serves as a great bike, and you can destroy anyone with the appropriate fitness, and obnoxious kit. I just don't think the added money is worth it, I am even going back to aluminum on my mtb. Get out ride your bike and have fun.
@@frankchan5547 You can always upgrade for cheaper since you can hunt for used parts. I literally got a used 3D printed Fizik saddle for 70% off from a $400 MSRP for my gravel bike.
@@frankchan5547 Cheap doesn't mean bad. One of the best mtb groupsets that's not in the high end 12spd range is also one of the cheapest.
@@frankchan5547 Aluminum is simply better than carbon
@@cjohnson3836 agreed.
@@frankchan5547 why's that
It'd be great to see what upgrades you'd put on the budget bike to bring up the performance and see how close you can get it to the $3k bike feel
This would make a very interesting follow up episode - best bang for the buck upgrades.
Probably wheels. And just converting tubeless. Once you get over about 40mm tubes actually carry quite a bit of weight.
@@cjohnson3836 I wondered about the contact points, better saddle, decent grip tape, better bars. It may not take much at all to significantly improve the ride experience. It could potentially include what it would take to make it more road ride friendly if the user was to take it for a sportive or other road based event.
@@rustymac83 Those are hard as they're not upgrades so much as personal fitting. I ride a $30 synthetic saddle that, for me, is orders of magnitude more comfortable than the $130 CF saddle I'm now trying to sell. So you can't even necessarily say its a cheap vs expensive thing.
Some light hoops with a stiff hub makes a world of difference. Can even make a cheap-ish frame feel quite lively :)
Scott doesn't get the respect it deserves. They do make quality bikes and they do innovate whereas I feel a lot of the other brands play it safe and copy the trends. Besides, Scott bikes are SOOOOOOO beautiful looking
Like the format. Like that you both provide good reasons when providing opinions on the various aspects of the bike. I think adding a 3,000 pound version for comparison would be great! You both did a nice job.
Silca.. good choice. From what I can tell this is a serious company. Meaning they won't sell any kinda of crap just to make profit. Silca sincerely strives for quality in all the things they sell. Respect.
I think you could probably upgrade the cheap bike to make it feel significantly more comfortable, while still keeping the total price under £3000. Stuff like tubeless, better tyres, new saddle and handlebars could already make a massive difference and get it much closer to the feel of the expensive bike.
Tubeless won't make any difference as such. Better wheels (especially this), tyres (especially this too), saddle, lighter handlebars, stem and seatpost. You won't believe how huge difference wheels and tires can make, focusing onl;y on this aspect gives you totally different bike.
You could easily knock 2-300g off with some new not to expensive wheels. Wheels on low price bikes are often near 2kg combined. It would be interesting to see how much you need to spend to get it below 10kg.
@@ekrano to get my stock 1300$ Kross Vento 5.0 105 disc from 9.3 kg to sub 8 kg i needed to spend : 100$ on tubeless tires/tire sealant/tape and valves. 700 $ on discounted 40mm carbon wheelset (1580g) about 150$ for high end carbon seatpost, also discounted. About 150$ for lightweight fizik saddle. About 100$ for very lightweight 3T stem and about 150$ for 38 cm Vision Metron handlebars. Something about 1300$ in additional cost to transform this bike into totally different machine. Total price 2600$, 7.8 kg no pedals no bottles, 8.2 kg with pedals/bottles/saddle bag/garmin/sensors/lights and guarantee that all parts are top notch.
@@michadebicki6534 Get Elite wheels on black friday for about 800 euro. They weight 1300 grams. Even better deal. All the items listed can be found secondhand for half the price. Pretty cheap to transform a alu bike. But at that point i'd rather buy a Chinese frame (including carbon 1 piece cockpit + seatpost) for 550 euro's on velo-build.
@@YannickLB quality alloy frame will be overall much better in terms of handling, road feel and stiffness balance compared to cheap carbon frame and will offer pretty much the same ride quality as medium-level carbon frame. Any real difference and advantage for carbon will be between high end carbon frame versus quality alloy. I rode and raced them all still having a good or bad day makes much bigger difference for the final outcome than any tech in the bike I could possibly have.
Yes, thank you for mentioning Sora and Tiagra. It seems far too many people forget about how big these groupsets are and immediately jump to 105 and above.
My first bike was a Sora (and Microshift) build and my commuter bike was Tiagra, both incredible pieces of kit for the money, and I’d bet a big part of Shimano’s sales.
Look forward to some future videos on them…
Still riding my winter bike built from parts bin, tiagra shifter never missed a beat(shift) :)...
Agreed. Just started riding with a Sora equipped Scott CR1. Pretty amazing compared to the Raleigh I rode in high school!
My experience of the "cheap" vs expensive is quite a bit different so I suspect this is one of those situations where the results of other comparisons would vary a lot.
I'm currently riding a 2013 Giant Defy 1. That's an aluminum frame with carbon fork and seat post. It originally came with a mix of 105 and unlabeled Shimano components. I've upgraded everything that wasn't to 105 and put much better wheels on. The best part was everything I added, with the exception of the wheels which I bought used, was second hand new...components people had bought for projects and never got to them...so effectively new but at very reasonably prices.
This past fall I had an opportunity to spend a few hours riding a 2022 Defy 1 I was considering buying. (It had been a rental from a local shop and they clear out their rental fleet at the end of each season.) Full carbon and full (mechanical) Ultegra. The cost of the new bike would have been about 5 times what I paid for my older bike. The difference? The shifting on the new Ultegra was simply glorious...just incredibly smooth and quick. Everything else? Meh. Perhaps I just don't ride far enough or fast enough, or I am just not sophisticated enough to detect the differences, but there wasn't much in it.
I dream about finding a bike that is as big a leap ahead as my Defy was from it's predecessor, but the upshot is I'm still riding my 2013 bike. I'd love a new one, and I'd love to have that Ultegra groupset, but for now I'll spend the money on trips with the old bike.
As a lifestyle choice, I think you are spot on: better have some spare money to spend on actually using the bike and maybe more time cause some frugality allowed fir cutting back of work hours than having a priced possession that you don't have time using. And that stresses you out cause everything that breaks/wears out is so expensive, so you'll end up enjoying yourself less.
I agree almost entirely. My bike is a 20 year old cannondale alloy cx frame with a headshock, which comes in at 11.6kg. Unfortunately, it can only accommodate rim brakes.
Apart from that, I'd ride it forever.
So I'm on the lookout for something else, still alloy, but hydro discs so I can stop when it rains.
You two are the best duo on youtube. You have take Jimmy to a loooong bike packing trip with you. That guy is a genuinely funny.
Nice to see you guys doing videos together again! keep 'em coming!!
thank you for the video Francis it's always great when Jimmy's on board
Totally agree on your comments about modern Tiagra. It may be 10 speed, but works just as nice as 105 or Ultegra. A new bike buyer than can test ride different options will see for themselves.
those mid range shimano groups are great and have loads of features they used to miss like lever reach adjustment, paddle shifter levers etc
Agreed. I switch between bikes from 9 to 11speed and the only difference I see is if you are picky on cadance. Other than that I see no gains. Smooth shifting comes from proper tuning.
...& upgrade as you go along if you wish.
GRX groupsets - totally agree. Great around performance. I mean I love my Di2 on my road bike but I never feel like anything isn't working absolutely bang on the money when I'm out on the gravel / winter bike (£1800 orbea Terra) - pound for pound its an absolute belter.
Great vid. I have a 2021 Cube Nuroad EX gravel bike that was about £1700 when I brought it.. I immediately ditched the home branded wheels and brought (eventually 3 pairs!) new hoops with the main ones being DT Swiss GR1600s and some Mavic all road pros while of course making them tubeless. Bar tape, saddle and chain were also swapped out to parts I trust and like.. It rides like a far more expensive bike now despite only changing the points of which I touch on the bike and where it touches the road. The 3 sets of wheels have varying Shwalbe G-one tires varying from Allroads to ultra bites to use depending on weather/terrain I am riding on... One thing I also did was change the standard Shimano brake pads to ceramic pro ones made by Disco brakes. A mega cheep upgrade that improves the performance massively.
Final note.. As an ex MTB racer and someone who has toyed with road bikes for 35 years I LOVE gravel bikes and in fact find it faster on bumpy towpaths and mild single track to my mountain bikes.
Brilliant. I normally bore of this type of chat about the ins and outs of which equipment is better than which. But you treated it fairly and meaningfully. I would welcome stuff like this. And you've got me inspired to design a bike for myself. I'll start with a good, light frame and equip it with mid-range components such as Tiagra which you mentioned. That could be the sweet spot. The biggest trick for me would be to find a suitably lightweight frameset and wheels on a low budget.
...+ it's good to see "Jimi-Arm-Thing" (@3:40) again...
I got Addict Gravel 30, which is the fourth in line, with GRX800/GRX600, plus Zipp303s. That is just below 3000 pounds bike. I would say up to this level, the difference in performance is huge, but from 30 (with carbon wheels) to Tuned, it must be pretty close.
I have the same Addict 30 with Zipp 303s’ and I couldn’t agree more. Difference can’t be much from the tuned overall. Such a great road and gravel monster.
I’m riding a 2017 Scott Speedster Gravel 10 since new. 105 everything. 50/34 chainring. 11-34 11spd cassette. 35-622 WTB Exposure 34 in the rear. 37-622 WTB Byway 40 up front.
Stock seat, stock bars. Honestly it’s been great. It’s been my main bike. I feel like I got my money’s worth out of it. I just did a 75km gravel trail this week on it. Light gravel or gravel paths or trails is the extent of it for me. Just need enough tire to feel confident cornering in the gravel at speed for me. Once I go past 35c in the rear I find it to be more sluggish than I like.
I use a 1x XC for offroad and chunky dirt roads. And a basic 3x steel hybrid on the daily around town that I don’t worry about locking up.
I got the 2021 scott speedster with a Tiagra group set. The have made it more gravel-ish in over two years, terms of tire clearance, geometry (and handlebar). My version is pretty aggressive and „raw“, for a gravel bike but Scott offers very good performance for the money
I actually own an EQ version of Speedster Gravel from last year. With fenders and all, it is even heavier. However, it was a very conscious decision, and with a few likewise planned upgrades (including going tubeless with the biggest tires the frame would swallow) it is a bike that can be nicked and banged, takes on a beating and keeps on coming. Removable rear rack, frame bag, bento box, and it is a hell of a commuter that you won't be too scared to lock to a post somewhere in the town.
What you've said about the groupsets, I can only agree with. The 4700 series Tiagra that came on mine is such a satisfactory ride! Threw on a bigger cassette in the back to get at least a bit of "minus" gearing, found a deal on hydraulic brakes with levers, and the damn thing just sails through anything for 3000km already. City, Gravel, light singletrack, snow and sleet in the winter, ridiculous cobblestone descents... You CAN be satisfied with a cheaper bike.
I have a 2022 Scott Speedster Gravel 20. Great bike. I changed the saddle to a SELLE ITALIA SLR Boost Superflow TM that I had previously purchased (also in 2022). I will also change the wheels to carbon ones (this is the basic change). In some time I will change the seat post to a carbon one and maybe the steering wheel, because I don't quite like its geometry in a low grip. It can be lightweight aluminum. After these minor changes, the bike will weigh 9.5 kg. Size S
Excellent video Francis! Have been scouring YT for in-depth info on the Scott Speedster Gravel range especially for geometry comparisons but this by far is the most info I’ve got on the bike. May I suggest the following upgrades to bring down the weight substantially?
1. Parcours wheelset - For my riding, I would choose the 1,400gm Ronde with the Hutchinson Overide 38mm tyres (tubeless, of course!) to save a bit more weight while retaining functionality. Standard X25 wheels are approx. 2100gm.
2. Carbon seatpost - More comfort, slight weight saving.
3. Carbon handlebar/handlebar-stem combination - Again, more comfort, slight weight saving.
4. Selle Italia saddle - Definitely one of the best around, I personally use the Selle Italia SLR Boost Endurance, the one you use is lighter still.
5. If you had to go all the way and really make it a focused build for a particular type of riding then a single Rotor crank.
Even without number 5, I reckon that this could be a shade under 10kg but with a vastly more comfortable ride quality. Looking forward to a future build and as always, amazing content man!
Im glad you have done this comparison. I've got the Speedster Gravel 20. It's pretty much the same as the 30 and has an 11 speed groupset. I've swapped out the saddle and handlebars and bought a carbon wheelset. I've saved over 1kg, which is great.
As I wrote above, I have Scott Speedster Gravel 20 as well. 2022. Great bike. I changed the saddle to a SELLE ITALIA SLR Boost Superflow TM that I bought earlier (also in 2022). I plan to change the wheels to carbon ones (this is a basic change). In some time I will change the seatpost to a carbon one and maybe the steering wheel, because I don't quite like its geometry with a low grip. It can be a lightweight aluminum handlebar. After these minor changes, the bike will weigh 9.5 kg. Size S
I ride a Cannondale SuperSix with 105, and having never owned anything better than my dad's 40-odd year old Raleigh Record Ace, it absolutely blew my mind. The shifting is almost instant, the brakes are strong as I'd ever need, it works well enough that having never ridden anything Ultegra or Dura-ace or whatever, I'm genuinely not sure what (if any) noticeable difference there would be.
"You make friends with golfers so they don't hit you with golf balls" - Jimmy 2023
9:00 I thought the same when I got my TCR that came with a Vibe 7S. The sabertooth-shaped drops were unusable, even with a 70mm stem. I went to a PLT Ergo with drops that extended parallel to the ground and they are significantly more comfortable even with a 130mm stem.
I have a marin gestalt gravel bike with 2x9 sora groupset and i absolutely love it! It gets the job done both on and off road so I would definitely agree that the cheaper groupsets are overlooked
The Eagle AXS casettes are like $500, the XPLR are like $225. You save a few grams.
You can change the 'sponginess' of SRAM brake distance with a set screw (depends on the line where the screw is), but my brakes are as snappy as your GRX in the video. It is really quick to do, you can pratically do it while riding. This is generally in the instructions that people throw away because they think they know better.
I own a Genesis CDA 20, aluminum frame, steel fork, swapped up the wheels for a DT Swiss Gr 1800 Spline pair, Conti Terra Trail 40 mm tubeless tires and Shimano Sora 2x9 with mechanical disc brakes. I’ve had it for 3 years now and taking into consideration that i was a total beginner cyclist when i bought it and that i am an okay cyclist now, i’d really like upgrading to a higher end bike. Never the less, my Genesis has been miss handled, beaten to the dirt, the gravel and untamed roads and i’ve gotta say i have rarely felt limitations. I ride with other people and my cheap bike doesn’t stop me from winning sprints and hills against dentists who own a 3000-4000€ worth gravel bike 😁 mine was worth 800€ when i bought it.
I was riding a circa 2006 road bike until about a year ago, thinking "I don't need a new road bike, there just isn't that much difference". The bike fits me well and doesn't seem to hold me back on group rides. But, with that bike now well past 15 years old and on its 2nd, 3rd or 4th iteration of components, I finally broke down and purchased a new road bike with all the new goodies, wide / carbon rims and wide tires, disc brakes, Di2. I went on to get a 3D printed saddle, new stem and bars (to fit my body better) and swapped out the 52-36 chainrings for a 50-34 combo (quite hilly where I live). Making all of these changes had me questioning if I would have been better off just buying a frame and building it up exactly how I wanted, and if I were to do it again, I probably would go that route. Anyhow, with the bike completely dialed in and $10K US into my investment, I NEVER ride the old bike any more. The new bike is just about perfect. OK, did I need to spend as much as I did? Probably not, but I don't care, I love the new bike, fits me like a glove and it's flexible enough to do both road and gravel.
I have ridden crap bikes for long periods of time in the past, and there is nothing wrong with that. You get out there, do your reps, get fit, have fun. With that said, the experience of riding my new roadie has provided some new perspective.
Very interesting indeed. I upgraded my touring bike to 2 x 10 speed Tiagra, had to get the GRX rear derailleur due to Tiagra cable pull being different to all other 10 speed (STI levers). It is great, reliable, sound, slightly clunkier than 105 but not so much that I regret buying it - and the cost was WAY cheaper than 105. For my money the 10 speed GRX with Tiagra shifters is plenty workable, on an awesome frame with great wheels I think it would make a formidable bike that would be a better option in terms of cost while retaining the lovely (yes lovely) performance of the higher end frame.
GRX 400 levers are pretty much tiagra with hydro brakes.
Slightly beefier hoods but honestly it’s fine. Not brilliant but fine.
I think the comparison here was done well. Because an 1800 gravel is a usualy an good solid bike.
1 tier down and you really start to get into crappy builds. That said my merida 400 rentals have great bartape.
Get the cheap one, upgrade the parts and you'll have a premium bike for a fraction of the costs. Like with my Sora equipped alloy frame gravel bike a few upgrades later, 1x, XT-Ultegra mullet setup, the weight is 8.62kg. And the frame is more durable than a carbon one. Ride feel is incredible.
What bike do you have?
Content of this sort is exactly what folks need to see. While I drool over so many of the incredible bikes I've seen on Francis' and Jimmy's respective channels, they are simply outside of my financial reality. Added is the physical reality of weighing 98 kilos; I have to be far more circumspect about rider weight allowances and braking power. Finding the sweet spot between performance, durability, and price is incredibly confusing in the current market.
I absolutely hammered a a new Tiagra groupset on an old Scott Roadster (2007 frame I think?) that I rebuilt in 2019. I took that bike everywhere road, knarly gravel, bike packing, well over 2000miles and it never failed me (other than pads, chain, cassette / consumables etc.). It's so overlooked.
Nice video guys ! I run a Giant ALX mtb with shimano and a carbon cinelli Zydeco gravel bike with campagnolo groupset . Both completely different in terms of riding . Gravel bike doubles up as a road bike and mtb great for real off road 👍
Parcours tubeless wheels, same tyres as the addict tuned, a carbon bar & seatpost, a saddle of your choice, and you're not far off that £3k bike. That's where the sweetspot is - perhaps add a GRX 11 speed mech to go 1x with an 11-42 10 speed cassette to make it as close to the carbon bike. Pull ratios for 11 speed mech and 10 speed levers were the same for my Tiagra 4700 shifters and R7000 derailleur
Water Lane in Ryton, that’s my mates house on the top of the bank. Just a mile away from me. Nice seeing you ride along the Keelman’s & round the Willows.
Interesting comment regarding Tiagra and Sora groupsets at the end. I've had Tiagra and Ultegra on road bikes and they're both great. It comes down to indexing and adjustment. My gravel bike has GRX and I'm always fiddling with the cable tension!
incidentally i ride a scott gravel speedster 30 (2020 model). nothing to complain, frankly. now that i've replaced saddle and handlebars, i can't wait for the weather to get warmer.
The black tape looks much better than the white tape! Never get the cheap one! If you do, you’ll eventually buy the expensive one anyway. I ride a Sage Titanium Barlow frame with GRX 800 mechanical shift (11 speed) one by, a Chris King bottom bracket (T47) and head set. The wheels are Roval Terra C with Panaracer Gravel King SS @35mm. I ride less on gravel than pavement. They’re quite fast on the road and hard pack conditions but not so good for mud. If it’s muddy I stay home which is more of a option in Southern California than the UK except when you were here!😂 We’re having the coldest and wettest winter we’ve had in quite a few years. My bars are Roval Terra and probably have the shortest reach and drop of any carbon bar and are very comfortable. The stem and seat post are Thomson Elite. Very strong! This build is a bit over $6000.
There is a fix for the spongey Sram brakes. I battled with them for two years. My LBS spoke with Sram and worked out a fix that finally made them crisp braking. They were thrilled to figure out the fix. I was glad to finally have brakes that worked.
I run 2 bikes mainly:
Planet x free ranger carbon frame. (9.5/10kg) mullet setup with some rival component, force 1 cranks, eagle gx chain ring, e13 11s 9-46 cassette with 650b tubeless 50or52-584 tyres and ritchey venture comp pro bars
Dahon smooth hound, alumunium frame (8-8.3kg) 1x 9 sora rt3000 with praxis carbon cranks/4iii powermeter, force1 chainring 50T, 11-34 9s XT cassette, 32-406 tyre and ritchey venture pro comp bars
I can relate to the brakes... my Sram Force Etap Levers are always troubling me, like after every 1500km i have to do something, like bleeding, or seting up the range differently and never felt or braked as good as my shimanos.... with my 2 years old Shimano 105 wich have been ridden for 14000km i just had to change brakepads, thats it. It just works
The last few minutes with the wrap up. Gold content imo
Fantastic Episode - Hands Down, Excellent
Just seeing Jimmy's face was worthy of an $8,000 price tag
Now here in Colorado, it was literally impossible to purchase a Scoot Bike. Scott doesn't wholesale from the UK and you MUST go through a bike shop. That Totally Blows!! Because of you FC and your videos, I tried in 2021 and half of 2022 to locate a Scott Addict 20 or 30 Gravel. Forget It
So I purchased the RIBBLE SL Gravel. I am only bring this up because the tires and rims were tubeless ready but shipped with a tube. I did pay the bike shop $28 US dollars per wheel to switch over. I am very pleased with the ride and the "standard" parts are top shelf.
Again, my point is that this episode kicks A$$ and is very entertaining.
Well Done Boys,
Cheers
Thanks Travis!
Had the same issue with Shimano XT brakes Vs SRAM level ultimates. The Ultimates I couldn't get to not be spongy, took it to bike shop who set it up properly with the bleed block and still half a lever of travel before any braking, shop overfilled them and now they finally feel right. Going back to the Shimanos with servowave takes some getting used to after riding with SRAMs that are setup properly and I end up locking up a lot on the first few rides, but they are much better once used to them because they take so little effort compared to SRAM.
I think the carbon levers also have more flex in them which adds to the spongy feel.
On my cheap carbon winter bike I found it a really harsh ride and was upset with myself for not spending a bit more for a quality frame. Then I tried the VCLS seatpost from my summer canyon on it and transformed the ride completely. Now I WANT to ride it rather than feel like I have to when it’s wet. It also has a Frankenstein group set with SRAM force levers and brakes, Rival mech & cassette, GRX chainset with 105 left side power meter, Ultegra pedals & KMC chain. Works just as well as when it had a full Force groupset!
I ride a Sonder Camino Ti with SRAM force axs , which I recently rode at coed y brenin mtb park and I love it, I need to sap the seat post out for a carbon post, and I would love some carbon hunts but I love the bike
A lump of chromoly steel gravel Vitus bike bought for £1k from wiggle in 2017, then gradually upgraded to grx800, with tubeless 650B wheels, 2.0" tubeless tyres, zero carbon parts and it weighs the same 11kg, WTF Scott???
Interesting one, law of diminishing returns really. Would like to see that 3k GBP bike compared to the 8k GBP one. I personally think the 3k bike will be best bang for your buck 👍
Hi!!!
Short answer? No it's not! The cost is never equal with the gains. Just like in any other sport.
But I'm still watching this..
I currently ride a 2021 scott grave speedster with a ultegra swap and gator skin tires. Personally i think this is the perfect set up of road/light gravel riding. I am able to keep up just fine with my carbon road buddies and gravel junkies. Also great for long endurance rides!
I'm a London Cycle Courier and I use a Tiagra groupset (disc) with a Fyxation Quiver frame, which is a gravel design if you're not familiar with it. Tiagra is decent but you have to keep an eye on the calibration and the chainwheel selection mechanism broke internally but tbf that was probably after around 18,000 miles heavy use although it shouldn't really happen. After a bit of haggling with a side-order of charm I got this replaced on warranty. It happened to the gear selector too but my mechanic fixed it himself with a bit of ingenuity. I'm probably not a good example as I do incredibly high mileages each week compared to commuters and weekend mamil's. But when someone who reckoned he knew a thing or two said to me "Tiagra is sh*t", I just replied he had no idea and was mistaken. I got a discount (Courier perk!) on the groupset but in my world it was still quite a lorra money! Love the channel 👍😁.
Your remark about replacement costs is very important on a mtb/cross/gravel bike. I remember how fast the components on my cross bike would deteriorate in one winter season. Just a few races. So glad I was running cheap 9-speed stuff. It lasts longer and is much cheaper to replace.. On one course, many expensive bikes where shedding their deraillers in the mud. My trusty Deore derailler was fine. Well, gravel is not mud or cross..
Great video Francis! I've been on and off watching your channel for a few years and I have to say they've been getting even more amazing every month. I'm now watching pretty much all of them these days.
Definitely agree with some other comments here - great analysis, and it would be great to see a follow-up video throwing a mid-range bike in the mix.
I have a speedster gravel 30 with 2x11 GRX and love it. Changed the saddle but otherwise kept stock. My mate has a mid range carbon gravel bike, cracked seat stays after a few months and has to wait 6 months for his replacement frame. IMO alloy is the way to go for off-road
Just been able to get hold of GRX 815 - the Di2 2X group set that has been unobtainable due to supply chain issues for a couple of years. Now thinking about a frameset to put it all on. I currently ride a 2020 Specialized Diverge Sport but I've ridden it on a fair few long multi day bikepacking rides now so I'm thinking of going for either a new DIverge frameset or a Trek Checkpoint SL frameset. My Roval Terra C wheel set will migrate over too and I'll get the Pro DIscover bar and stem to run the wires and hoses internally. My old Diverge Sport will then transition to a road bike...
Thank you for the excellent content. At the moment I would recommend the Stevens Camino Pro carbon, to every gravler (with a 1-speed crank). Weight 8.5 kg, Easton EC90 SL Carbon crank and Shimano GRX 810 / 812 components. Wheels DT Swiss G 1800 Sline. For 3099 euros (2730 pounds)
Riding gravel on an old 2014 Giant tcx allux 2 slr frame. Wheels are alloy rims with dt swiss 240 hubs and a xd driver. Just build it up with sram rival axs shifters and an sram eagle axs deraileur and a 10-50 casette. Loving it. Tires are gravelking ss 38mm setup Tubeless with orangeseal. Zero flat wheels in two years 🤞. Keeping up and the cost of the build. Is 1400 £. And i have a spare groupset to sell. The crankset is an old one, a Shimano 5700 10 speed, but i have mounted a narrowwide woolftooth 42t chainring to it. Doing the job just fine.
I have a earlier Gravel bike that came with Sora, I’ve over the last 5 years upgraded the groupset to get hydraulic braking, and last year new wheels to go tubeless both where dramatic upgrades.
The gearing is barely noticeable, slightly better range with Tiagra cassette 34 vs 32/11 both shifted well.
Absolutely keen on seeing a Tiagra/Sora/equivalent Sram groupset test!
Almost have the parts ready for this!
would love to see some upgrades on the speedster
for most people $2,000 worth of bike is PLENTY of bike. even doing grand fondos, and crits.
and this is from a bloke who has a $6k titanium gravel/ all road bike that takes up to 47mm 700c tires or 650 x 2.1" -
and has two carbon wheelsets. for nearly 1/3 to 1/2 the price I could have had a bike that worked basically the same -
but we all fall victim to vanity and consumerism.
Also that Scoot seems heavy AF for $8,000....8.2kg ?? My titaniun bike with a full GRX 810 mechanical and carbon wheels is like 7.8kg...
Great video guys!
2 years ago, I brought a vitus gravel bike, spec’ed with sram apex. Love the bike, except the brakes. I've always riden Shimano, never had an issue, but these sram apex brakes never feel quite right. Even after multiple bleeds, switching to uberbikes pad, etc, etc.
Enjoyed this format and the interactions between you…it was super…
I bought my 2021 Cannondale Topstone 1 Alloy for $2300. Shimano GRX 11 speed group set. The WTB rims came taped which was nice. At that price point my budget allowed me to buy Garmin Rally XC200 pedals which I like very much.
I like Jimmy's "if you can ride the more expensive one, do it!" I've gotten so used to my road bike being under 7kg that I've had to rethink other bikes & what's acceptable to me. I'm also getting older and I don't have the same power & time to ride as I did.
100% agree. I ride a titanium gravel bike on the road n the winter and summer off road. My normal road bike is a Pinarello frameset I got in the sale and built up with di2, carbon everything and its under 7kg. There is a huge huge difference in the feel and quality of using the bike.
I've been riding gravel since gravel became "a thing". I've not bought a carbon gravelbike, but have experimented with steel and titanium. I was fortunate to buy al;l three bikes right before Covid and the "supply chain issues". I've used 105-5800 frankenbike setups , now called "mullet" with mtb casettes and Roadlink adapters, and 1x and 2x. I like the GRX setup best, with a 2x GRX 600 on the newest Lynskey GR300 bike, which cost just over $3000. when I bought it. I like it very much, and have bought two extra wheels sets so I can run road, gravel 700 and gravel/mtb 650b. It is super versatile, and I don't think I hit 8000 yet for all three bikes. I'm disgusted with the bike industry and the prices I see thesde days. The cheaper Scott bike is a good place to start, needs on;y mintor upgrades and most people can't begin to afford the "better" bike anyway.
Canyon sells their bikes with everything you need for tubeless. Rim tape already on, comes with a tubeless valve, etc.
Good to go!
The canyon grizl/grail 7 can be bought for 1800€. It has a mix of grx 600/810 components and a carbon seatpost.
£400 for a cassette!
Components are getting too expensive, mid range equipment for me. I have a Merckx alloy frame with Campag Daytona 10 speed, Chorus carbon chainset, Campag Zondas. My other summer bike is a Flandria CSSF with Campag Centaur black red, Fulcrum (Zonda) wheels. Love them both.
Expensive stuff is getting more expensive, but cheaper parts are getting cheaper and better.
I think the difference maker is the carbon and more specifically the carbon layup on more expensive frames. can make different parts of the frame stiffer or more supple to absorb some vibration and flex where they need to. and they can be so light too.
Very Good!! I back in the 70s I would buy a custom frame and average group set and I really liked the ride. I find it difficult to find a deal on a good frame that could be built up like the old days. The frame cost is close to a bike cost yet the choices for biking are so complex. I look for parts and try putting various combinations together. I agree with your saddle,bar and tires. The best point you made I think is the cost of ridding with expensive part for all parts just need to be replaced and repaired. I do my own work but still very expensive for tools and parts.
I was looking at the Scott Speedster Gravel for my new bike but went with the Orbea Terra H30 1x instead - slightly more expensive but been great so far.
Bombtrack Hook EXT (bought for 2800€) : steel frame with a Rival 1 groupset. Changed the freehub body for an XD one. I quite like the smallest cog at 10t, gives quite a bit more range than the 11t Shimano uses as a smallest cog.
Great videos, but can we have a repeat with both bikes on the same tyres, and pressure (tubeless) as I can't help but feel that a great deal of what you were feeling was down to this. Sure the £8k bike is better, but I think you over emphasised it in this very entertaining video.
Excellent format! And very believable discussion allowing greater insight into the 'value for cost' aspect.
like the format and conclusions - I have a mid range Canyon Grail cf SL 7 with carbon frame and GRX 800/600 sells for $2700 and is the sweet spot - upgraded wheels with Hunt gravel race for $500 and weight down to 8kg - agree I wouldn’t spend more on an off-road bike
great Vid. i have a 2023 addict gravel 30 on back order & cant wait to see where the mid level bike sits. i have a wheel upgrade + 1x set up ready to go & am interested in the carbon bar stem combo to throw on it. & yes I have owned a few Scotts & the stock syncros seats & me never get along
Really dreamed of getting a Scott Addict Gravel for a long time. It's just not readily available where I.'m from sadly plus the sizing is just too large. But really great to see these bikes in action. Currently running a Ceepo Rindo as my main bike and love it. Keep at it mates. Cheers! Ride safe.
i ride with Sora RD & FD and set it up for 8 speed. just because i havent afford a 9 speed brifter. still works pretty nice
Good stuff gents - 100% need a mid-range 3k bike comparison review
Running GRX 2x10 with Tiagra shifters and Shimano canti brakes on my Cross Check, and they're fantastic. Most of the time I ride with the clutch off either because I've forgotten about it or I just don't need it. That front derailleur was a pain to find in stock last year, though.
I liked this video-format.
The Canyon Inflite AL was a super nice 1500€ alloy bike. It weights below 9kg and came with a nice sram 1-11 and carbon fork. Luckily I grabbed one in 2019 because the alloy version inflite was discontinued last year. I have risen thousands of kilometres on it and find that it rides super nice. And the price was even in 2019 great for a below 9 kg bike.
Format is good being able to swap bikes with someone else and have a second view point. My bike runs Tiagra x2 ten speed with a Shimano CX chainset and TRP cable disc brakes. Bike I'm building is a very mixed bag of Tiagra, GRX, XT and TRP work in progress.
The alloy bike in this case is a tubeless conversion away from being a bike you can just ride forever without upgrade, you have the basics of hydraulic brakes, clutch derailleur and decent gearing for climbs and the ability to run decent width tires.
I Liked the comparison, some very interesting insights.
Currently riding:
- 2021 carbon Canyon Ultimate CF SL 7, rim brake, 25mm Continental GrandPrix tires, just under 8kg
- 2011 Giant XR1 Roam (my 'winter bike', a sort of hybrid) Straight handle bars, with Shimano Deore XT 3x9 - stuck in the big ring, so actually a 1x9 - with hydraulic Magura rim brakes and 42 mm Pathfinder Pro tires ~ 12.5 kg (wild guess)
I have a first generation aluminium Cannondale Topstone with SRAM Apex 1x, it cost around £1500 and whilst it’s not super light I have no fears about sending it over rough terrain and breaking something. All the components aren’t too expensive to replace and the frame is tough, my one complaint is that the Apex 1 brakes are awful (in comparison to those on my road bike) and every time I ride I wish they were better.
If I wanted to go faster I’d get fitter, but also I’d be spending more and getting a carbon bike that’s lighter and probably a bit aero. The value for money between £1500 and £2500 is amazing right now!
8:05 We won't TRY to hit you with golf balls. LOL.
I just built up a Stormchaser with GRX600 mated to XT derailleur, on a Sunrace 11-50t cassette, and RaceFace cranks for about $2400US/1900BP. Yes the combination works. I used a tanpan inline pull converter and to get the extra reach on the derailleur replaced the shimano direct mount with a goatlink11. Hell of a lot cheaper than electronic.
Been riding Shimano Tiagra on my last three bikes. Have the latest version with hydraulic breaks and it amazing! Frame Cannondale Synapse Carbon S1 from 2021/2 I think.
Very interesting video, love the format. I bought an aluminium canyon roadlite 7 with Ultegra last year. Tubeless, flat bars and 9 kilos it's one of the best bikes I have ever owned. It cost €1400.
Fun to see Jimmy in your recent videos!
The answer is then, change the bars and tape, remove the front mech, convert to tubeless and put on slightly wider tyres on the £1800 bike. One could put lighter parts on it if one wishes, but the 1x convert will get it to under 11kgs (if you are sensible with the tl fluid).
I have a Felt Breed 30 with GRX 600 11speed gradually up grading parts xt cassette xtr rotors hunt carbon 35 wheels bars stem and saddle next
A nice addition would be comparing stock tyres to then matching the tyres of the two bikes so it eliminates getting a fair comparison between the two machines. I ride two gravel bikes with 40mm and 45mm tyres so know there is quite a difference in ride quality.
Great vid! I'd be curious to see if carbon seatpost, handlebars and wheels would change the way this 1 800 bike feels. Is it worth to buy carbon parts for an alloy bike? And compare it to good set of tubeless tyres - which is better investment? And what happens, if you combine carbon parts and good tyres?
I run used cannondale caadx cantilever 10spd 105 Cx bike for all around purposes, cx races, gravel riding. With spare sets of wheels and tires.
Is more than enough as a do it all bike. Moreover, I got it from a guy who bought it in the uk.
Had to change front and back brakes with each other to make it “the right way” :P
Road is bought used for less than 1000£ canyon endurace 2017 ultegra, Carbon everything right now after few my upgrades.
Buy used and upgrade.
I am 80kg guy doing on both bikes around 6000km a year.
After 2 years of ownership I didn’t break them. They ride great.
If I win lottery I’ll buy top of the shelf factor with ceramic everything otherwise don’t need more🚴🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Great video! I’m amazed I bought a €1999 cube c62 nuroad one with grx 600/800 1x12 and carbon frame, seatpost and steering wheel. Compared to this Scott bike..
I have a Marinoni racing bike with an Ultegra group set , however I just bought an electric gravel bike a Devinci gravel bike it has a GRX group set both group sets are great, the Devinci is just like yours an climbs hills great as I use the electric assist cuz the bike is weighs close to 20 kg