Loved/love this old gem! We must have played a thousand games of this in college in the 80s-90s! Perfect game for 2, 3, 4 and even 5 players! I remember one beer-drinking game we had with 5 players that was an absolute blast!
The hook in WSIM is the pre-programmed move plots. Both you and your opponent are plotting moves before anything is revealed or resolved. WSIM is a very clean and simple system. A good war game pits opponent vs opponent and not a player vs the rules!
Yes, this one was a favourite of mine for years. And, as I said in the video, I keep coming back to it even though there has been a whole host of imitators.
Hey David - Glad you liked the video. I got the minis in a 'Risk' game and then somehow found out the manufacturer of them and bought some more. Got little soldiers, cannons, cavalry etc...Do a good search and you should find them no trouble.
I love the passion...i was a risk kid...bro did intro me to Sqaud Leader back in the day...he had this game too. But what we really loved was the NFL Game PAYDIRT...Avlon
Wow, this brought me back when I was a child back in 1970-1980’s and current. At age 12 I had studied all major naval conflicts from the age of sails to WWI WWII and modern wars. I had WSIM in my veins, back then without computers this was it. Then we would modify the rules and built our ships with battle damage appear. Good ole cotton painted makes for great fires and smoke, I had my friends from the block on bikes come over and practice our moves. Then once a weekend we would have a weekend sleepover and we would stay up all weekend and kill each others ships. I favored Admiral Nelson for a few reasons, back then we wished for girls to join but it was a different time. Glad to see you keeping it alive, oh I still have all my board games as part of my home library, of course now with laptops and my network Xbox, it is much quicker to die in battle. I do miss my youth, sincerely, NELSON.
We played WSIM a lot back In the day and yet it was never one on our “mainstream” games for some reason. It’s still my favourite Age of Sail game, but I think the burden of always having to fill out ship logs every time you play it a burden for some.
S. Craig Taylor (the designer of Wooden Ships and Iron Men and other great games) recently passed away. Wooden Ships and Iron Men is his masterpiece. I've had many great (and nail-biting) hours playing WSIM. Like you, I've played almost all the Age of Sail games but keep coming back around to this classic from Avalon Hill. We use Tumbling Dice 1:4800 miniatures for all our Age of Sail gaming adventures (no financial interest). They are less expensive and can be used without painting. Gilbert, thanks for a great video.
Started playing this again. It in my view the best ever hex game made. I have painted up a load of Forged in Battle Napoleonic vessels 1/3000. Perfect. Forged in Battle ships make it is easy to distinguish different raters. Did not spend too long. Sprayed with leather brown basing. Lighter brown stripes for three, two or one gun decks I have mounted them on 15mm clear acrylic hexes off e bay. Cut masts off my older 1/3000 ships placed next to ships to represent dismasted vessels. This was an easy thing to miss in the game if playing with lots of vessels. Number the bases with fine pens. Game on. Get a mate down. Get a load of beer in. Put your WG table up.Spend a day playing Trafalgar. Perfect day.
I have always loved this game and even though I have "Flying Colours" as the 'replacement' game for it, I still have a found affection for it and am keeping my copy.
Hey Ray, yeah there was something about playing the game during those days that was quite "magical'. I have had several computer simulations of the "Age of Sail" and I damn well wished they worked on our 'modern' computers. But, every time I upgrades (I have windows 10 now) I had to throw away tons of software that no longer worked. Than goodness we don't have that in the board wargaming world. I can still play this old classic and 'upgrade' it with miniatures and still enjoy it.
Shame that video games killed the board games. I played "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", but instead of calculating battle results, I used "Squad Leader", "Air Force", and "Submarine" (which I believe were all Avolon Hill). It took me 4 years to play out WW2 (and boy did the boards get dusty). Axis and Allies wasn't a game I played, but my son and daughter love A&A! Now that I am retired at 58, I would love to play these great classic board games, but just like in the late '70's and early '80's, I still can't find other people to play (Or what I call the Dungeons and Dragons effect)! Great video, I love board games and maybe you can show newer games still in print. I love mass counters...Squad Leader still my favorite!
Another great video Gilbert. I just purchased a copy of WS&IM on eBay.. I have heard about it and would like to play it. I do like realism and historical accuracy in gaming but I di believe there is always that balance between a historical simulation and playability and enjoyment. Thanks for sharing.
What I'm doing with a lot of games especially some of the new solitaire games is fill out some of the items that need to be on the Info sheet and then just leave them in page protectors and use grease pencils or China markers to write on the page protector when needed, then when you're done just what the thing clean and it's ready for the next time. I'm also using a lot of them for protecting the players aids and you just never know when you're going to spill something. Gotta try n keep everything clean.
Great video Gilbert...it makes me want to dust-off my WS&IM game. BTW where did you get those coloured plastic minis you showed us in the video for the Trafalgar set-up?
I used to play this a lot ... we even were in process of designing a campaign extension for the nordic 7 years war. Eventually some of the rules got too simplistic to be fun, but I never managed to aquire "Close Action" to replace it. :(
I'm of the same mind as Gilbert: although I would have to concede that all games that put the emphasis on FLEET maneuvering and control are probably better "simulations" than WS&IM, you just cannot beat Wooden Ships for fun. I have Flying Colors and some of its expansions, as well as my trusty old copy of WS&IM, and haven't gotten farther than a read of the FC rules. If it comes down to actually playing, I'm gonna reach for my old AH flatbox of Wooden Ships EVERY TIME. That said, I don't find Flying Colors *that much* more complex than WS&IM. If you go to the level of, say, the Panzer armor system, then you'd be in a new class of complexity. It's not that hard to simply apply modifiers to one or two die rolls to arrive at a result. Also, Gilbert, you mentioned that WA&IM was originally an Avalon Hill design, and it was not. If you check into it, the 1975 initial version of WS&IM was a BATTLELINE product!!!
This might be 2016, but your video took me back to the halcyon days of the 1980s. I played WS&IM many times, and found it a very good game. Okay there are more modern games doing the rounds these days, including, need it be said, a computer version. I once played a game where one was a captain of just one sailing ship., A sort of Squad Leader of the waves. That proved very interesting and gave one some idea of the problems involved, at first hand, in commanding a ship in the days of sail.
A very enjoyable video. I played, then sold off, almost all of the games that you mentioned. Held onto my copy of WS&IM though, for the very reasons you mentioned. Have you tried Ares' "Sails of Glory"? IMHO, it's use of hidden cards for ship movement is easier than WS&IM's plot mechanics and their pre-painted miniatures are gorgeous. Getting together enough for large fleet actions can get a bit pricey though.
Great video - a neat and comprehensive description of the merits of this splendid game. I only play AoS using miniatures, but have had this game to use on hexed mats since the early 90's and it has never been bettered in my opinion, although the shortlived game 'Trafalgar' by Warhammer came close. The only criticism that I have ever heard of it was that American ships are somewhat favoured in their capabilities and I think that is probably the case, but as I do not have any American models in my collection and have never played against them this has not bothered me. Potentially it could be an issue in tournament games but I can sympathise with why the authors did this as the game is after all a part celebration of the bicentenary of independence and the outcome of the few historical frigate actions between Britain and the US lend weight to the argument of US superiority.
Great review! I have this game, but haven't dusted it off in awhile. Where did you get those plastic ships, in all those different colors? This was a very thoughtful review... I appreciated all the effort you put into it.
one of my favorite games, and far superior to Frigate of roughly the same vintage. Why? For me its the "chrome", the design details that give you a feeling of the period. In particular, its the idea of a crew, who can be assigned to the guns vs the boarding party. Its a simple mechanic, but gives a "feeling" for the ship's company. Very thoughtful video, kudos for your side by side comparison of mechanics between games, a useful picture of the design choices.
Where did you get those plastic ship? I love the miniatures! Love your concepts and how you mix up one game or another. I really admire your reviews... they teach me so much about the small rules of these games... and I am such an AH fanboy... of the older games. Thank you.
@@kirbyculp3449 Y'know, I have never had a chance to punch it out and play it. I bought Fighting Sail hoping to use it to lure one of my friends into doing some age of sail wargaming with me but it never quite happened.
I'm new to Age of Sail gaming and the only system I picked up is Admirals Order by Mario Jugel, Strategema Games. I put a unboxing and play through on my channel, its a wonderful game. I suspect slightly different to some of these games in scale and detail as trafalgar is a weekender game over 3 maps. An afternoon is more like a frigate v frigate, or squadron v squadron. A nice card driven system. I did like the look of the beautiful Flying Colors counters, I'm a huge fan of GMT games. Thanks for this video, I recommend highly people explore Admirals Order too as another option to these.
It seems wooden ships is quite a fast play simple system, flying colors adds complexity for complexity sake. Admirals order is also simple basic rules for firing, it is generally more detailed I think as it has a good card driven close combat system for when ships collide which is a game in itself, and has a command and control structure with admirals giving out squadron orders. There is also a Sealed Dispatches expansion which adds ever more detail to firing and combat to more realistically represent the exact weapons, as you mention is important in Age of Sail. The rules are essentially in 3 parts to play and build skill up over time. very clever idea.
Gilbert Collins The ships are the same ones that are offered in Worthington's 'War and Peace" game. I found out the manufacturer on line and simply ordered some.
I did try "Blackbeard" many years ago and while I liked the board and counters a lot, I dislike the 'chrome'. That is: too much of it. I have since 'revised' my estimation and would like to try it again. I think the first edition way better than the second, which I think is terrible. Still too much chrome though, Berg needs to understand that 'simplicity' can still be achieved with 'excellence'.
The ultimate in ship on ship or at most a small squadron is Close Action by Clash of Arms IMHO. I prefer Flying Colors because you can realistically do a fleet action like Trafalgar without it taking a weekend. I did play this several times back in the 1980's and it was great back then. You can very easily make even simply log off the Flying Colors information. Great ship miniature by the way. Where did the plastic ships come from?
Hi Mr. Collins, I'm looking to add miniatures for naval war gaming. Is there a set you could recommend? A variety of sizes for different ship classes would be ideal! Any help would be appreciated!
I purchased mine years ago from England. I think they were DAVCO miniatures. The VALIANT miniatures were small enough to actual fit into the hexes of the original game.
I Love the game but there is a serious problem with it, easily fixed. Avalon Hill changed the original Battleline rules and allowed three melee rounds per turn instead of one; this seriously broke that important mechanic. Just revert back to one melee round per turn and all should be fine. :-)
They were the same manufacturer that did the miniatures for Worthington Games "War and Peace". Can't remember the name but a simple Google Search should find them.
Metal ships were from valiant miniatures out of Great Britain. The plastic ships were from the manufacturer that made them for Worthington games. I don't remember where I ordered those from.
Pretty cool. We used to play the hell out of WSIM. We never had minis, but I remember the game very fondly!
I have both WS&IM and Flying Color's and this vid makes me want to get them back out again, love the idea of the plastic minis.
Loved/love this old gem! We must have played a thousand games of this in college in the 80s-90s! Perfect game for 2, 3, 4 and even 5 players! I remember one beer-drinking game we had with 5 players that was an absolute blast!
Yet ANOTHER game I had for ages and now regret selling. Your review motivates me to try to reacquire this classic for use with minis!
The hook in WSIM is the pre-programmed move plots. Both you and your opponent are plotting moves before anything is revealed or resolved. WSIM is a very clean and simple system. A good war game pits opponent vs opponent and not a player vs the rules!
Yes, this one was a favourite of mine for years. And, as I said in the video, I keep coming back to it even though there has been a whole host of imitators.
Hey David - Glad you liked the video. I got the minis in a 'Risk' game and then somehow found out the manufacturer of them and bought some more. Got little soldiers, cannons, cavalry etc...Do a good search and you should find them no trouble.
I love the passion...i was a risk kid...bro did intro me to Sqaud Leader back in the day...he had this game too. But what we really loved was the NFL Game PAYDIRT...Avlon
Wow, this brought me back when I was a child back in 1970-1980’s and current. At age 12 I had studied all major naval conflicts from the age of sails to WWI WWII and modern wars. I had WSIM in my veins, back then without computers this was it. Then we would modify the rules and built our ships with battle damage appear. Good ole cotton painted makes for great fires and smoke, I had my friends from the block on bikes come over and practice our moves. Then once a weekend we would have a weekend sleepover and we would stay up all weekend and kill each others ships. I favored Admiral Nelson for a few reasons, back then we wished for girls to join but it was a different time. Glad to see you keeping it alive, oh I still have all my board games as part of my home library, of course now with laptops and my network Xbox, it is much quicker to die in battle. I do miss my youth, sincerely, NELSON.
We played WSIM a lot back In the day and yet it was never one on our “mainstream” games for some reason. It’s still my favourite Age of Sail game, but I think the burden of always having to fill out ship logs every time you play it a burden for some.
S. Craig Taylor (the designer of Wooden Ships and Iron Men and other great games) recently passed away. Wooden Ships and Iron Men is his masterpiece. I've had many great (and nail-biting) hours playing WSIM. Like you, I've played almost all the Age of Sail games but keep coming back around to this classic from Avalon Hill. We use Tumbling Dice 1:4800 miniatures for all our Age of Sail gaming adventures (no financial interest). They are less expensive and can be used without painting. Gilbert, thanks for a great video.
a classic thanks for reminding me I have to get it out.
You are the oldest e-4 airman in the Navy...
Started playing this again. It in my view the best ever hex game made. I have painted up a load of Forged in Battle Napoleonic vessels 1/3000. Perfect. Forged in Battle ships make it is easy to distinguish different raters. Did not spend too long. Sprayed with leather brown basing. Lighter brown stripes for three, two or one gun decks I have mounted them on 15mm clear acrylic hexes off e bay. Cut masts off my older 1/3000 ships placed next to ships to represent dismasted vessels. This was an easy thing to miss in the game if playing with lots of vessels. Number the bases with fine pens. Game on. Get a mate down. Get a load of beer in. Put your WG table up.Spend a day playing Trafalgar. Perfect day.
I have always loved this game and even though I have "Flying Colours" as the 'replacement' game for it, I still have a found affection for it and am keeping my copy.
Hey Ray, yeah there was something about playing the game during those days that was quite "magical'. I have had several computer simulations of the "Age of Sail" and I damn well wished they worked on our 'modern' computers. But, every time I upgrades (I have windows 10 now) I had to throw away tons of software that no longer worked. Than goodness we don't have that in the board wargaming world. I can still play this old classic and 'upgrade' it with miniatures and still enjoy it.
I still play the DOS "Wooden Ships and Iron Men"; you have to get a piece of software called Dosbox to do it but it's free
@@daviga1 I have tried time and time again to get DOSBOX to play this game but no luck. I hate windows!
@@XLEGION1 well shoot, sorry to hear that. I assure you it can be done but maybe something is misconfigured
Shame that video games killed the board games. I played "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", but instead of calculating battle results, I used "Squad Leader", "Air Force", and "Submarine" (which I believe were all Avolon Hill). It took me 4 years to play out WW2 (and boy did the boards get dusty). Axis and Allies wasn't a game I played, but my son and daughter love A&A! Now that I am retired at 58, I would love to play these great classic board games, but just like in the late '70's and early '80's, I still can't find other people to play (Or what I call the Dungeons and Dragons effect)!
Great video, I love board games and maybe you can show newer games still in print. I love mass counters...Squad Leader still my favorite!
I would disagree that video games have killed wargames. Just attend WBC in Pennsylvania and you will see that Board Games are in a new golden age.
The ships are the same ones that are offered in Worthington's 'War and Peace" game. I found out the manufacturer on line and simply ordered some.
Another great video Gilbert. I just purchased a copy of WS&IM on eBay.. I have heard about it and would like to play it. I do like realism and historical accuracy in gaming but I di believe there is always that balance between a historical simulation and playability and enjoyment. Thanks for sharing.
What I'm doing with a lot of games especially some of the new solitaire games is fill out some of the items that need to be on the Info sheet and then just leave them in page protectors and use grease pencils or China markers to write on the page protector when needed, then when you're done just what the thing clean and it's ready for the next time. I'm also using a lot of them for protecting the players aids and you just never know when you're going to spill something. Gotta try n keep everything clean.
One of my all time favorite games. Sadly my copy was destroyed.
Great video Gilbert...it makes me want to dust-off my WS&IM game. BTW where did you get those coloured plastic minis you showed us in the video for the Trafalgar set-up?
Where are the painted fine detailed minis from????? Merchants and Marauders painted?
I used to play this a lot ... we even were in process of designing a campaign extension for the nordic 7 years war.
Eventually some of the rules got too simplistic to be fun, but I never managed to aquire "Close Action" to replace it. :(
oh... update: I actually have "Close Action" now ... looking forward to try it.
I'm of the same mind as Gilbert: although I would have to concede that all games that put the emphasis on FLEET maneuvering and control are probably better "simulations" than WS&IM, you just cannot beat Wooden Ships for fun. I have Flying Colors and some of its expansions, as well as my trusty old copy of WS&IM, and haven't gotten farther than a read of the FC rules. If it comes down to actually playing, I'm gonna reach for my old AH flatbox of Wooden Ships EVERY TIME.
That said, I don't find Flying Colors *that much* more complex than WS&IM. If you go to the level of, say, the Panzer armor system, then you'd be in a new class of complexity. It's not that hard to simply apply modifiers to one or two die rolls to arrive at a result.
Also, Gilbert, you mentioned that WA&IM was originally an Avalon Hill design, and it was not. If you check into it, the 1975 initial version of WS&IM was a BATTLELINE product!!!
This might be 2016, but your video took me back to the halcyon days of the 1980s. I played WS&IM many times, and found it a very good game. Okay there are more modern games doing the rounds these days, including, need it be said, a computer version. I once played a game where one was a captain of just one sailing ship., A sort of Squad Leader of the waves. That proved very interesting and gave one some idea of the problems involved, at first hand, in commanding a ship in the days of sail.
A very enjoyable video. I played, then sold off, almost all of the games that you mentioned. Held onto my copy of WS&IM though, for the very reasons you mentioned. Have you tried Ares' "Sails of Glory"? IMHO, it's use of hidden cards for ship movement is easier than WS&IM's plot mechanics and their pre-painted miniatures are gorgeous. Getting together enough for large fleet actions can get a bit pricey though.
Great video Have you played any other AH games?
Great video - a neat and comprehensive description of the merits of this splendid game. I only play AoS using miniatures, but have had this game to use on hexed mats since the early 90's and it has never been bettered in my opinion, although the shortlived game 'Trafalgar' by Warhammer came close. The only criticism that I have ever heard of it was that American ships are somewhat favoured in their capabilities and I think that is probably the case, but as I do not have any American models in my collection and have never played against them this has not bothered me. Potentially it could be an issue in tournament games but I can sympathise with why the authors did this as the game is after all a part celebration of the bicentenary of independence and the outcome of the few historical frigate actions between Britain and the US lend weight to the argument of US superiority.
Great review! I have this game, but haven't dusted it off in awhile. Where did you get those plastic ships, in all those different colors? This was a very thoughtful review... I appreciated all the effort you put into it.
I got those back in the 70's from Davco in England I think.
Love your videos
Thank you very much.
one of my favorite games, and far superior to Frigate of roughly the same vintage. Why? For me its the "chrome", the design details that give you a feeling of the period. In particular, its the idea of a crew, who can be assigned to the guns vs the boarding party. Its a simple mechanic, but gives a "feeling" for the ship's company. Very thoughtful video, kudos for your side by side comparison of mechanics between games, a useful picture of the design choices.
Where did you get those plastic ship? I love the miniatures! Love your concepts and how you mix up one game or another. I really admire your reviews... they teach me so much about the small rules of these games... and I am such an AH fanboy... of the older games. Thank you.
Have you tried "Blackbeard" from AH!!!??? Tell me what you think of it.
Oddly enough I just bought a copy of Fighting Sail not half an hour ago.
How do you like it?
@@kirbyculp3449 Y'know, I have never had a chance to punch it out and play it. I bought Fighting Sail hoping to use it to lure one of my friends into doing some age of sail wargaming with me but it never quite happened.
Is game in some scale consider sizes of counters (or ships on it), distances between and speed (taking into account size of hexagons)?
I'm new to Age of Sail gaming and the only system I picked up is Admirals Order by Mario Jugel, Strategema Games. I put a unboxing and play through on my channel, its a wonderful game. I suspect slightly different to some of these games in scale and detail as trafalgar is a weekender game over 3 maps. An afternoon is more like a frigate v frigate, or squadron v squadron. A nice card driven system. I did like the look of the beautiful Flying Colors counters, I'm a huge fan of GMT games. Thanks for this video, I recommend highly people explore Admirals Order too as another option to these.
It seems wooden ships is quite a fast play simple system, flying colors adds complexity for complexity sake. Admirals order is also simple basic rules for firing, it is generally more detailed I think as it has a good card driven close combat system for when ships collide which is a game in itself, and has a command and control structure with admirals giving out squadron orders. There is also a Sealed Dispatches expansion which adds ever more detail to firing and combat to more realistically represent the exact weapons, as you mention is important in Age of Sail. The rules are essentially in 3 parts to play and build skill up over time. very clever idea.
I love age of sail. I don't own either but I'm tempted to give them try if I can track them down. I do have sails of glory which I enjoy.
Where can I get the colored plastic ships sir? Thanks
Gilbert Collins
The ships are the same ones that are offered in Worthington's 'War and Peace" game. I found out the manufacturer on line and simply ordered some.
Thank you for the information!@@XLEGION1
Yes, I'm familiar with that game. But, for me, it comes about 25 years too late. I had already converted WISM to miniatures with cards years ago.
I did try "Blackbeard" many years ago and while I liked the board and counters a lot, I dislike the 'chrome'. That is: too much of it. I have since 'revised' my estimation and would like to try it again. I think the first edition way better than the second, which I think is terrible. Still too much chrome though, Berg needs to understand that 'simplicity' can still be achieved with 'excellence'.
The ultimate in ship on ship or at most a small squadron is Close Action by Clash of Arms IMHO. I prefer Flying Colors because you can realistically do a fleet action like Trafalgar without it taking a weekend. I did play this several times back in the 1980's and it was great back then. You can very easily make even simply log off the Flying Colors information. Great ship miniature by the way. Where did the plastic ships come from?
I have the Battle line WS&IM and AH version.
I had that one at one time myself. If I recall correctly, the original game had the names of the ships printed right on them.
Hi Mr. Collins, I'm looking to add miniatures for naval war gaming. Is there a set you could recommend? A variety of sizes for different ship classes would be ideal! Any help would be appreciated!
I purchased mine years ago from England. I think they were DAVCO miniatures. The VALIANT miniatures were small enough to actual fit into the hexes of the original game.
@@XLEGION1 awesome thank you! I'll try to find them, they are beautiful
I Love the game but there is a serious problem with it, easily fixed. Avalon Hill changed the original Battleline rules and allowed three melee rounds per turn instead of one; this seriously broke that important mechanic. Just revert back to one melee round per turn and all should be fine. :-)
Totally agree Carl. We have played with only one melee round for years.
Well Said!
Where did you get the plastic ship miniatures?
They were the same manufacturer that did the miniatures for Worthington Games "War and Peace". Can't remember the name but a simple Google Search should find them.
where did you get the ships for the game Please
Metal ships were from valiant miniatures out of Great Britain. The plastic ships were from the manufacturer that made them for Worthington games. I don't remember where I ordered those from.
@@XLEGION1 thank you sir
fantastic game.
Where did you get the miniatures?