This was so rich. It reminded me of Dallas Willard’s words to John Ortberg: “The main thing that you bring the church is the person that you become, and that’s what everybody will see; that’s what will get reproduced; that’s what people will believe. Arrange your life so that you are experiencing deep contentment, joy, and confidence in your everyday life with God.”
The sentence about feeling like God's employee, not like God's child is so spot on. Thank you for that gem, Steve. I am about to retire and I am really looking forward to tend to my own spiritual life without feeling like God's employee AND receiving my paycheck from people who are God's children.... I rather drive the tourist bus at the zoo and volunteer at the soup kitchen. I live in Europe and I have noticed that my role as a Pastor keeps people from being themselves! (Yes, it's very old school over here...) But as just being my own little insignificant 'me' I can have amazing conversations with other humans with great depth and vulnerability. But when I am seen as a minister I can feel the temperature sink a few degrees immediately and the conversation becomes stiltet. I have come to see my 'title' as a concrete block on my feet rather than as wings. It was not so as a Hospice Chaplain - but as a Pastor of a garden variety village in Switzerland one becomes a projection screen in no time. I never ever got a kick out of any leadership role. It seems to me an artificial construct. I am more a 'we'-person and had the joy of creating wonderful cooperative environments. That does not mean delegating everything, hoping some other lackey does the heavy lifting - cooperation meant that people with similar skillsets, that share a vision get around the table for brainstorming and off we go. Worked great! That was way back when... But now I am looking forward to the time when I don't have to be a 'leedah' anymore and not attract any Leaderkickers anymore. And I guess in our current times the word 'leader' could become a little tarnished anyway.
Thanks for this video. I’m a 30 y/o lead pastor at a small church. The meshing of church wellbeing with my own is something that hit me between the eyes. Also, stressed all the time. But I think the Lord is using this season of my life to train my brain and emotions to depend more on what HE thinks of me - than what anyone else thinks. My church is very supportive - the anxiety of what others thinks is more from my own “worst case” imagination.
Another valuable interview Carey. I’m on my second watch. I appreciate the way Steve addresses overfunctioning and provides tools for us pastors to be more emotionally healthy and implement guardrails for sustainable ministry. Thank you!
Carey this is my first time commenting. I really enjoy your videos but this one, in this season, is spot on for me. 15yrs Pastor and taking a church over from my father-in-law has been very difficult. realizing my soul needs rest. Thank you both for the content. It hit home.
Steve's insights are so helpful. Particularly loved his perspective about Peter only walking on water once and the other disciples not at all. Thanks Carey and Steve.
I am not a church leader but I really get alot out of these podcasts. I am in the field of architecture. It requires someone to be a very great leader. You have to coordinate the design, drawing, and construction of a whole building with a variety of disciplines and dealing with clients. You can get extremely burned out in this profession because it requires an enormous amount of time, energy, coordination of people and attention to detail. I have struggled with burn out and anxiety as a result of the extreme amount of hours I have had to work in the past to get drawings done as well as anxiety as a result of the extreme attention to detail architecture requires. I also have had alot of personal battles with my husband's health issues which resulted in PTSD and trauma. I would love an episode on recovering from trauma and ptsd as a leader. Also, an episode on how to deal with anxiety as a result of perfectionism. In architecture you kinda have to be a perfectionist to have quality drawings, but that leads to so much anxiety and sometimes depression when you feel like you've failed or made mistakes.
Very helpful. After almost 30-years in ministry alongside my husband, we're still learning so much. And we are excited about the "ministry" the younger generation could have ahead of them! Thank you.
This so rich and accurate of the reality of the pastorate and how to stay healthy but I would love for someone who is actually still living in the reality to say it and live it. Both of them are no longer pastoring and openly admit that they struggled with the same things when they were in it and how much they enjoyed the 100 to 0 experience of not having to deal with the constant criticism as soon as they stepped out of the pastorate. I realize that it is easier to give advice from the outside in and from a Ministry where people are inviting you to speak to them and are excited to have you speak for a few days and then you leave. I know they both know this is a reality. I don't have hard data on this but I wonder how many ex pastors turned speakers, Podcasters or other parachurch organization leaders have done so, not so much as a call but out of self preservation; for their own emotional and spiritual health? I believe there are many. There is authenticity and authority when a pastor who is still be criticized and is still wearing 10 different hat tells me about this reality and then how I can remain healthy in it.
The image of someone running from a fire you are in and at the same time telling you how you can successfully live in that fire without being burned. I believe the culture and structure of at least the American church is not biblical nor is it healthy, it is a fire that burns it's leaders. The fire needs to be put out, not for leaders to try to learn to live in it.
And I thought I was the only person that cuts grass to control my environment. I often think, I can't control the people, but I can control the Bermuda. :)
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This was so rich. It reminded me of Dallas Willard’s words to John Ortberg: “The main thing that you bring the church is the person that you become, and that’s what everybody will see; that’s what will get reproduced; that’s what people will believe. Arrange your life so that you are experiencing deep contentment, joy, and confidence in your everyday life with God.”
Thanks for sharing this!
I'm a bivocational pastor. This is one of the most insightful podcasts I've ever heard into the issues facing people in our category.
So glad it resonated with you
I could listen to this guy Steve all day. Wisdom, knowledge, understanding, and compassion...wow. Wish he could be my therapist.
Thanks for watching!
The sentence about feeling like God's employee, not like God's child is so spot on. Thank you for that gem, Steve. I am about to retire and I am really looking forward to tend to my own spiritual life without feeling like God's employee AND receiving my paycheck from people who are God's children.... I rather drive the tourist bus at the zoo and volunteer at the soup kitchen.
I live in Europe and I have noticed that my role as a Pastor keeps people from being themselves! (Yes, it's very old school over here...)
But as just being my own little insignificant 'me' I can have amazing conversations with other humans with great depth and vulnerability. But when I am seen as a minister I can feel the temperature sink a few degrees immediately and the conversation becomes stiltet. I have come to see my 'title' as a concrete block on my feet rather than as wings. It was not so as a Hospice Chaplain - but as a Pastor of a garden variety village in Switzerland one becomes a projection screen in no time. I never ever got a kick out of any leadership role. It seems to me an artificial construct. I am more a 'we'-person and had the joy of creating wonderful cooperative environments. That does not mean delegating everything, hoping some other lackey does the heavy lifting - cooperation meant that people with similar skillsets, that share a vision get around the table for brainstorming and off we go. Worked great! That was way back when...
But now I am looking forward to the time when I don't have to be a 'leedah' anymore and not attract any Leaderkickers anymore. And I guess in our current times the word 'leader' could become a little tarnished anyway.
Thanks for this video. I’m a 30 y/o lead pastor at a small church. The meshing of church wellbeing with my own is something that hit me between the eyes. Also, stressed all the time. But I think the Lord is using this season of my life to train my brain and emotions to depend more on what HE thinks of me - than what anyone else thinks. My church is very supportive - the anxiety of what others thinks is more from my own “worst case” imagination.
Another valuable interview Carey. I’m on my second watch. I appreciate the way Steve addresses overfunctioning and provides tools for us pastors to be more emotionally healthy and implement guardrails for sustainable ministry. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing!
Carey this is my first time commenting. I really enjoy your videos but this one, in this season, is spot on for me. 15yrs Pastor and taking a church over from my father-in-law has been very difficult. realizing my soul needs rest. Thank you both for the content. It hit home.
So glad you resonated with this conversation.
Steve's insights are so helpful. Particularly loved his perspective about Peter only walking on water once and the other disciples not at all. Thanks Carey and Steve.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am not a church leader but I really get alot out of these podcasts. I am in the field of architecture. It requires someone to be a very great leader. You have to coordinate the design, drawing, and construction of a whole building with a variety of disciplines and dealing with clients. You can get extremely burned out in this profession because it requires an enormous amount of time, energy, coordination of people and attention to detail. I have struggled with burn out and anxiety as a result of the extreme amount of hours I have had to work in the past to get drawings done as well as anxiety as a result of the extreme attention to detail architecture requires. I also have had alot of personal battles with my husband's health issues which resulted in PTSD and trauma. I would love an episode on recovering from trauma and ptsd as a leader. Also, an episode on how to deal with anxiety as a result of perfectionism. In architecture you kinda have to be a perfectionist to have quality drawings, but that leads to so much anxiety and sometimes depression when you feel like you've failed or made mistakes.
Very helpful. After almost 30-years in ministry alongside my husband, we're still learning so much. And we are excited about the "ministry" the younger generation could have ahead of them! Thank you.
You got this!
This is excellent ! I Love the honesty and wisdom. I'll be getting the book ! Thanks Carey and your team for your work and being a blessing to many !
Thanks for watching!
So good. Love Steve and their crew 🙌🏼. Thanks for putting this interview together!
Hope it was helpful!
@@CareyNieuwhofthanks it was!
Thanks so much for this interview
Yes, this is wonderful. Thank you.
Thanks for listening
Great discussion. Love hearing these points of view. Jesus rules.
Thanks for watching!
This so rich and accurate of the reality of the pastorate and how to stay healthy but I would love for someone who is actually still living in the reality to say it and live it. Both of them are no longer pastoring and openly admit that they struggled with the same things when they were in it and how much they enjoyed the 100 to 0 experience of not having to deal with the constant criticism as soon as they stepped out of the pastorate.
I realize that it is easier to give advice from the outside in and from a Ministry where people are inviting you to speak to them and are excited to have you speak for a few days and then you leave. I know they both know this is a reality. I don't have hard data on this but I wonder how many ex pastors turned speakers, Podcasters or other parachurch organization leaders have done so, not so much as a call but out of self preservation; for their own emotional and spiritual health? I believe there are many. There is authenticity and authority when a pastor who is still be criticized and is still wearing 10 different hat tells me about this reality and then how I can remain healthy in it.
The image of someone running from a fire you are in and at the same time telling you how you can successfully live in that fire without being burned. I believe the culture and structure of at least the American church is not biblical nor is it healthy, it is a fire that burns it's leaders. The fire needs to be put out, not for leaders to try to learn to live in it.
BTW- I am a fan of this podcast and am a long time consistant listener. I have bee. Blessed by the content.
Thanks for sharing this!
And I thought I was the only person that cuts grass to control my environment. I often think, I can't control the people, but I can control the Bermuda. :)
Haha yup
carey what was the name of his bk...thanks greg
He is the author of Managing Leadership Anxiety and The Expectation Gap.
thanks have them coming...greg@@CareyNieuwhof
Zed??? it's Z great interview. I'm a late boomer still in the ministry game.
It's the Canadian in me, haha