Going BACK to a Major Bag Building Error in Disc Golf!! | Beginner Tips and Tutorials
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- "If you want to find success in your game, one of the easiest ways to do it is to minimalize the number of molds in your bag." -Robbie C ...and alot of other folks. Finding the right disc can be a HUGE bonus when you play alot, but I think mold minimalization has its weaknesses. In discussions with ams and the Birdie Fam I wanted to make a video readdressing an important bag building concept. So what do I think about mold minimalization now?? You’ll have to watch to find out!!
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:45 Setting the Table 
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This is a great thing about being part of the Birdie fam, none of this was a surprise. We discuss topics like this all the time, I know MVP taking forever to season is always a hot topic there.
I’m a huge advocate for minimal molds, the feel in the hand is so important to me and was especially important as a new player
Never thought my day would come. I’m doing great Robbie ❤
I AM DOING GREAT ROBBIE! THANKS FOR ASKING! (finally after years of waiting!) HOW ARE YOU!!!
I play 1-3 rounds a day and absolutely have multiple discs of the same molds. I also will go to a wooded course and throw whatever disc I am trying to break in on every hole so it gets there quicker.
My purpose for minimal is disc selection. When I get to a shot I end up picking the same 5-6 discs because of comfort with those discs that others are starting to not get thrown but sit in the bag.
I'm "minimalizing" where I can. I don't play enough to really do it properly, but I like having multiples of the same mold anyway. My mids and fairways get beat in more, because of the style course I play, so that's where I minimalize some. Otherwise, I'm just buying the disc for the shot that I need. Great video. I really enjoy your perspective on these kinds of things.
First off, absolutely love the shirt. Second as a 49 yo guy who started playing 8 months ago I truly appreciate your content and sharing of knowledge. Keep on keeping on bud!
I am doing FANTASTIC Robbie! Not only did I get to hear my name at the beginning of the video but you also had my bag on screen 😮. Made my day man for real. Appreciate the video. Always appreciate hearing you talk about something you’re passionate about like this
On the gyro front, mold minimizing still works by weight. Ex: I have a 175 Tesla and a 160 fission Tesla which I use for different purposes/conditions.
agreed! i have an eclipse 2.0 otb wave at 173g and and a fission wave 166g. neither have beat in after months of heavy use but they finish in different directions and feel the same out of my hand. and i have a similar effect on my lighter plasma crave and my new heavier otb eclipse crave
For me, finding my “stock shots” is what helped me scale down on different molds. Once a disc starts to have a different flight I keep it in the bag because I’ve built a relationship and trust in it. Periodically I’ll test it again a fresher version and test in different winds. If the disc that’s seasoning in doesn’t turn over in ahead wind it stays in the bag solo. I’ve found myself bagging less discs in general and doubling up one my main “stock shot” molds with one being a headwind disc and one being a tailwind disc. The bulk of overlap is in no wind situation and I just decide if I want the disc to land falling forward or fading.
I’m a casual/rec player, 29, shoe size 13, favorite color is purple and I wear corrective lenses. I’m throwing 1-2 full rounds a week consistently throwing 350, touching 400 in the right wind.
Robbie I am elated. Absolutely taken aback. My day has been made. I’m doing so well. Thank you for asking.
I disagreed with mold minimization. I carry no duplicate molds except for my putters and my pharoah. I highly enjoy buying and trying new discs from different manufacturers.
This is how I play as well. I DO however carry duplicates in my trunk for different wind conditions. IE Opto Sapphire for calm days, Gold sapphire for tail winds, and 170 Carat Sapphire for headwinds (strong headwinds, I’m just switching it out for the Grace)
I generally hate mold minimalization for most non pros. I have two discs that are the same mold but they are different plastics so they fly differently out of the box
@SternSupremacy I've just recently started acquiring some of my most used or favorites in different plastics or lighter weights. I like the pharoah alot so ordered what should be a bit more overatable one.
Agree. I carry all different molds/manufacturers and enjoy the variation and experimentation.
I feel like his emphasis on the long term game of mold minimization is where it hits most. I throw nukes and I have 4 in my bag. I didn’t buy my second one until 2 years after my first one 😂 I know and love how a nuke feels so if I can have one that pops up straight Vs. a little over stable I can make easy decisions from there. BUT I do love trying new discs all the time too
I am shot minimalizing. Each shot I am confident in hitting has a shape and a distance. And each shot has a disc tied to it. This simplifies shot selection for me 😀 I do like to carry 2 of a disc to cover e.g. a newer overstable fairway driver and a beat in one to cover small but different finishes to the flight.
I am also a mold minimalist. I bag 2 discs of 5 molds in my bag most of the time.
I love your passionate videos, I find that in my bag I tend to use mold minimalism with one or two molds, and usually a fairway and a distance driver, in base and premium plastics. With the multitude of mids and approach disc I find it is so much easier to bag a stable , over stable and under stable disc for example,Meteor, Mako3, E-mac Truth, Wasp.
love how the buzz matches the fit. bravo sir
Good informative video. When I heard about mold minimization, I did not make the type of mistake you worried about. I wouldn’t think most others would either, but can imagine a few newbies could.
Thanks man! This has confirmed my belief in throwing multiples of the “same” discs
Great video
I carry about 17 throwing discs, I will build a bag for the course I'm playing & conditions, which usually means I'm subbing in a couple overstable molds, one driver, and one fairway. Most courses in my area (Nashville, good seeing you at MCO) just don't require big shots. It's important to do field work so you can stay familiar with those molds that you sub in every so often
I used to be a mold maximalist because i was nee and loved throwing new discs everytime i bought new ones. But once i started realizing that i only reached for a few mold every time i went out to the course, i decided that i was only going to bag those molds. Then i started experimenting with different plastics and weights and methods for beating in a disc and figured out how to have the same mold for different shots. Now i only bag eight molds with 20 discs total in my bag. I love you disc golf
Thanks Rob you put my thoughts in to video but i didn't belived them
Took a year for my Lizottl Hex to finally straighten out, when it did I bought a Neutron Reactor, love em both. MVP beats in very slowly especially when your are used to Trilogy.
Disc minimizing did the best thing for my game. Always second guessing which disc to throw was causing too much frustration.
Good stuff Robbie! Mold minimization requires investing more time on the front end and in the field in order to have the confidence and easy disc selection on the course. The other aspect that makes it a challenge is when you lose that perfectly seasoned disc... so you always have to be cooking up backups at the same time. But, I look at those as things that keep me pushing, practicing and growing as a player. :D thanks
Good content
As a mold maximalist with the exception of a second putter, this is giving me life. Probably 300 molds in my 350 disc collection
I'm a mold maximalist, where I want different molds for different slots. The reason I went in this direction is because I don't want to go through the time and effort to wear down discs to become less stable, or shop around for the same disc with different stabilities. I buy discs that fit the different slots, and use them instead.
I don't really have any hang-ups on hand feel or trying to min-max with as few molds as possible. But I do prefer my throwing discs all be in premium plastic, and max weight. I use each disc as long as possible, until it becomes unreliable for the slot it's in. I will hold onto it if it fills a slot I need, however.
It also takes a long time for me to season a disc to the point where it becomes less stable.
That said, I like to use as many slots as I can for the situation I'm in. If I'm using my cart, I'll have 24+ discs with me. If I'm using a backpack I'll more likely have 18 or so. If I'm using a bag I'll only carry around 10 discs. So with those constraints I mix-max with the slots available.
Lastly, my most confidence-inspiring disc is actually a 175g Star Leopard that I've thrown probably more than any fairway driver. It's become more flippy, but is still surprisingly stable in my hands. It's my max distance standstill driver, and I can shape shots with it as well as any driver I own.
I don't think you are wrong. I find it's easier to do this with minor tweaks in weight in the same mold. For instance right now I'm loving the Infinte Discs I-Blend Tomb. I have one that is 170g for straight to turn over shots and a max weight one that is straight to hyzer. I've tried turning over the max weight one and it will turn over but it always fades out. The 170g one holds the turn over if I committ to the shot. I think it's about finding what you throw well and leaning into that being your thing. It's about confidence. If Robbie C is stepping onto the box and a Pig is in your hand...I'm confident you're gonna throw it well.
I truly don't think I have ever been more confident with one disc or the other. I have also never seen this idea of the same feel as giving me more confidence
love it! one thing i am curious about though is how much can weight effect the flight of the disc to maybe bypass the break-in period? say a new 180g buzz vs a 160g in the same plastic
It was a pleasure meeting you at MCO. You and your wife will be in my prayers. ☕
You can mold minimalize en masse with certain molds like the Wraith. Flippy? Pro Wraith. Straight bomber? Domey star Wraith. Overstable? Flat champ Wraith.
Mold minimalization is a natural process that one can stumble into after awhile of playing; there's no good way to just decide to minimalize. It's taken me 4 years to get to a point where I'm bagging multiples of certain discs. I'm convinced it's just time plus inconsistency that allows for mold minimalization. My Tournament Orbit Bear has hit a zillion trees already and is my "one-disc round" disc, so I keep a fresh VIP Ice one in the bag when I need one that's still reliably stable. Can't do that easily out of the box-you need the time.
And Swords? I bag 3 because from plastic to plastic they're legit different discs, and beat in a stock VIP run to an inch of its life and they'll get roller-disc flippy for you. I've stockpiled some of the Stinchcomb runs because they're reliably stable and no stock VIP run flies like the Tournament-X or even VIP-X ones do. Can't do that with consistent production-have to have that inconsistency (good news for you Innova and Trilogy throwers!)
Like, if you're an MVP/Axiom thrower, don't bother mold minimalizing because it'll take you a good while to beat in a disc and there's not enough inconsistency to allow you to grab 3 versions of the same mold and see differences in flight. It took me 2-3 years to beat the fade out of my Reactor, and after 4 years it now flies like a Hex but more reliable. As another example, I literally have a dozen Volts on my shelf from different 2020-2023 runs in all the plastics, some domey, some flat. They fly identically and I've since replaced that slot with the Bear.
And I think Paul McBeth is onto something with the idea of keeping current-run stock discs in his bag so if he loses one he can just grab another one and get similar flight.
Have been watching your videos for a longtime Robbie and you have taught me much about this sport. Your insight on this topic, is solid. Myself, I throw Primary Gyro. 60/40 split on MVP and Axiom and I am appreciative that you mentioned the durability in the gyro being different. In my bag i have several discs that have had a place in my bag for many years, one almost 10. Eclipse Proton Vector, which was discontinued. It still flies like its intended line but flies so easy and smooth. My "precious child" is a 2yr Neutron Inertia... such a trustable mold for straight throws, hyzerflip in the 30mph wind. holds any angle. great disc especially when it gets seasoned. but, I also bag a single none MVP mold... never leaves my bag. a 6yr old Lati 64* Ballista Pro. 168g. OG Opto and love giving it to new players to break their minds on how flight numbers work and change with time. being a 14speed, it shouldn't fly as easy as a 9speed nor flip up on a touch forehand. but... does. mold minimalization its such an interesting topic and I love hearing about it. There is so much discussion for this its crazy, but its amazing. Currently working with MVP Tesla's to find a favorite. :) :) Thanks for all of your content Robbie and everything you do, always makes my day better when you drop new content.
My Vector is the Precious Child of bag... used it more than any other disc these last 4 years and still so reliable and smooth. I will cry if I ever lose it. Matter of fact... Robbie found it in the snow for me at Maple Hill as darkness was falling before the Northeast Expo. He knows how much i love that disc! :D
@@ogdiscgolfer Vector is such a great mold. sad that they discontinued it honestly. so underrated, glad you got yours back though man, hate losing discs. hurts the soul.
@@brettmyers1710 I read the reason the Vector and older molds were dropped was due to having to retool for new machines... but man it hurts... :D
@@ogdiscgolfer I'm sure there is much that is unknown for why they couldn't transfer the mold over to the new tech but agreed. Stings a bit. I hoard them whenever I run across them.
@@brettmyers1710 jealous, I need to start hoarding... haven't seen another Vector in the wild. :D
I've been really liking Elevation discs for a pseudo mold minimalization. I don't play often enough to really season premium plastic discs so if I want to mold minimalize with premium plastic I need different runs of the same mold that fly differently out of the box. Elevation discs adjusts the flight numbers of their discs based on run and plastic type. I have a Glo-G Binx and an Ecoflex (recycled) Binx in my bag. The Glo-G is mostly straight with a little fade but the recycled Binx flips up and turns over. It's been great to have the same mold in different stabilities in premium plastic. Thinking of doing the same thing with their Interceptor mold. With different recycled runs you could have a full line up of interceptors right out of the box
As an amateur disc golfer, I've found in my journey to get better having two discs that fly the same and I cycle between the two in my bag to beat them in similarly. Because I have two tries for each shot really helps my practice rounds. I can learn the molds faster and what to expect out of them in different situations. I do feel like there are some gaps in my bag because I'm doubling up on discs.
So far I'm trying to avoid cycling with more premium plastic discs and I don't play often enough to really cycle discs. I found myself really frustrated with discs and plastics that beat in more easily, because the flight and feel changed and I just couldn't build trust in those discs. So gradually my bag shifted to more premium plastics just because of trust.
#ChopNation. Absolutely love that shirt
I just tried to get some of the molds to be similar. All three of my five speed look and feel similar to each other but one of them is unstable and the other is very over stable. I would also get bored if I had to use the same mold for every disc. For my put in approach, I use a wizard, a spore and a glitch. All three of those discs are a little deeper and have a bead. They all fly different but they feel similar in my hand which makes switching between them a lot easier. And all of my fairway drivers and high-speed drivers have a similar amount of dome to them. I enjoy buying different discs too much to stick with one mold forever. Unless you’re trying to be professional, I would recommend just buying what looks or flies nice for you.
I tried to mold minimalize for a while but I just don't get out to play enough. I did find that there are molds that I am able to do it with via plastic or weight change and it does work despite not wearing them in.
If you throw backhand and forehand with confidence this is a lot easier to do. Mold minimalism works best if you are versatile. If you throw only one way you need a lot more discs to deal with the situation you'd use the opposite spin shot.
I have found that weight is as much of a factor as plastic type when throwing the same mold. I have three hexes in my bag. I have a heavier proton hex, a lightweight nuetron hex, and an in-between fission hex. The heavier proton is more stable than the others. The light neutron flies the farthest and the straightest. My medium weight fission doesn't go as far as the nuetron but it flips more. Just my personal observation all my hexes are fairly new.
My biggest mistake as a beginner was buying too many discs, and not leaving them in my bag long enough to learn what they do. I was buying a new disc every two weeks at one point. I also don’t play enough to season discs fast, so always swapping and adding new discs to the mix really messed with my confidence.
I think your blue Z Buzz is a pre-McBeth one. If that's the case, it will be straighter than Buzzes made today. Looking at it at 3:53, I'm pretty sure it actually flies 5/4/-1/1.
lonestar base plastic is the most os plastic . they are the exception. I find that so interesting.
I bag 20 discs, but only 5 molds. I do much better now than when I bagged 12 discs, of which were all different molds.
Though, you do have to be cautious as some molds are different shapes depending on plastic/run. Aviars are a good example, with some having beads and some not. And then halo star Destroyers have a much hand-feel than its other counterparts.
I've seen bags with mold minimization but never knew the word. I tend to try everything and it seems to work okay for me. Besides putters. I should minimilize putters.
If im in a tournament i usually will try to keep fewer molds in my bag just the ones i like the feel of best but olaying with friends absolutely not i throw random new discs in the bag every time i go play for fun because it allows me to try discs and lines that i would never throw in a tournament
This is a concept that I understand, but one that never worked for me. I even tried taking my favorite putter/mid/driver and got different plastics, different weights, etc, and there came an expectation that ‘this will fly similar, but less stable’, and often times I’d see little to no difference in flight. Conceptually, ‘this’ plastic and ‘this’ weight should make it less stable, but it’s not always black and white like that.
I also tried to stick to one manufacturer (trilogy) to minimalize how much trial and error I had to do when testing new discs. Admittedly, I don’t care for most of Trilogy’s plastics, but I really like some of their molds!
Long story short, my biggest piece of advice is just find discs that feel good in your hand and instills confidence on the tee or the fairway. Flight numbers are not always accurate (I’m looking at you Hex and Brave…) so getting to know a disc requires field work dates and one-disc-only rounds with it.
I have 3 Innova Beasts...
Champion - Throws flat, goes 300-330ft, straight with a fade, fairly reliable.
Glow - Throws Hyzer, Flips to just beyond flat, Goes 330ft... flies straight to the right & fades back, not as reliable, prone to wrong Hyzer turnover
DX - Throws deep Hyzer to under stable right, Goes forever if it gets a little high and disappears off to the right somewhere turning away from light headwinds... really unreliable, usually a roller.
All the same mold/weight but the champion plastic is superior in my hand.. the DX feels ligght (and is more beat up than Conor McGregor's sparing partner, and the glow constantly leaves my hand early... so Mold minimalization doesn't particularly work for me but the familiarization does...
For me I think having a Similar mold/plastic (I like/bag similar feeling MVP Tesla, Catalyst, Crave & Wave) is more helpful than the same mold but different 'feel' plastics...
I also use my Tesla for about 6 different lines so use one disk that I know to get 6 disk flights from..
I have no sidearm but the Tesla works., Long fast and it goes straight with an almost "oh heck, I forgot to fade.. lets yeet hard right at the end..."
It does a nice hard turn thrown softly...
It rolls for... ever (I did a 260ft roller 'for no raison' with a 30ft put the other day for a 2-in... Would have been fantastic.. in a live match). (Throw hard on 1pm high)
It lobs over trees to tombstone or roll on depending on ground.
It 'Frisbee Throw' Hyzers in a 30ded arc while facing the target (look through a bush and yeet it out to the side.. just like playing frisbee).
it flicks through branch aps..
It puts in short distance high winds
And I just found and am playing with a backspin flick at 6pm to get out low then backspin breaks to a halt not far from where it lands... (You can backspin it to the front of the tee, it stops and comes back... yoyo style... neat... useless but neat)
oh and a high Anhyzer that turns back... oh and a soft flex anhyzer to hyzer landing...
and it gives great skip when thrown flat and hard... (Is that 6... I lost count... and I thing there's more... )
I'm just a dude who throws plastic sometimes, but I'm not sure the Buzzz is the best disc to do mold minimization with, especially for someone who isn't playing a lot. I've had a lot of Buzzzs over the years in different plastics and in different degrees of wear, and while there is some variation, they tend to stay neutral for a very long time. At least that is my experience as a casual player.
DX ROC is why this is a thing. Before the buzzz
I kinda do like have minimization half just kinda one mold for one type of shot( with my mids and throwing putters mostly). Seems to work for me.
I have to say it is refreshing to see someone rethrow bad shots. It is so lame watching a video teaching a point and just being like, that’s was a bad throw, oh well you know what I was trying to do
🤣🤣 I usually end up losing my discs just when I’m starting to understand them.
Trilogy is the only company that does it right in my opinion. You get a brand new disc in ice or x plastic and it will be more overstable than regular premium plastics. You can get a disc in air plastic and it will be flippy. If you can get one disc in all 3 plastics you’d prob have all your shots covered. Currently bagging emac judges in base and lucid ice, rivers in gold and opto ice orbit, and swords in vip and vipx. All the special plastics are overstable as advertised.
I would MUCH rather buy a disc out of the box that flies how I want it to than perfectly beat in a disc. Worst case I throw it off some cement or a rock and it gets too understable, well time to just go get another one. Mold minimization is great if you absolutely know the discs you want to throw now and forever…I myself will be throwing craves for a long time and have a bunch of them…but the whole bag doesn’t need to be locked in like that.
I tried to do you on Akinator but you hadn't been added😢, but I added you so now you're there
Compare same molds but different weight?
Ima just act like he said Colton😂 how you doing Robbie
I wish I could play once a week. I’m probably out there once a month.
I don't know what's going on in your life, so don't assume that I think that. Maybe you got like, 10 kids or whatever. But I work 55 hours every week and spend an hour commuting every day and I'm still out 3 days a week, minimum. If it's important to you, you just gotta make it happen. Again, I don't know your life, I am not talking down to you. I'm just saying, find time for the things that are meaningful to you.
Cheers bud.
Mold minimization takes to long to cycle discs. Tried it didn't like it. I have a one discs that I keep the same mold consistent for different shots: the crave. I have three: flippy as hell, straight, and slightly more fade. Detour and hex feel almost the same so I use them interchangeably for different shapes. Pyro because its the best overstable mid. FD2 and FD3 for headwind and forehands. then distance driver that I use based on factor of wind, but realistically they fly very similar... they are all 11 speeds. I've been throwing these discs for a while now that I'm very comfortable with all of them and their capabilities.
If you feel that mold minimiization works for you, then get after it. If, like me, you pick molds for each spot since you literally cannot "season" discs enough to fill spots and could care less about hand feel ... you do you. Everyone should fit their bag to their own style. Pretty sure my bag would confuse minimalists where they might see "overlap" I see flights that are different enough to want the options in the bag.
Robbie my best friend goes there
You change the weight on the gyros
Mold minimalism only really makes sense with more base plastics, like Innova DX and Discraft Pro-D and maybe Innova Pro or Discraft X. My struggle was always that as soon as I got one seasoned perfectly, it would break. Getting premium plastics to season takes a long time.
I’ve found that mold minimalism makes for a more “efficient” game, but not as objectively fun. More discs = more fun!
Algorithm thrower
Let's Throooooooooooow
I feel like this accidentally turned into a inconsistency in plastics video very quick
In most cases here you should be saying minimized, not minimalized. I dont care, no one else cares, I'm pointing it out since you speak a lot for a living and you might care about how you sound in general. Cheers Robbie. Love ya
“99 problems but a lid ain’t one”
Mold minialization only makes sense for drivers. It doesn't really apply to mids and putters.
Anyone wanna provide a summary? I don’t have 30 minutes… 😂
Buzz is 5 4 -1 1 ❤