There's actually a short course on some basic Norn vocabulary on Memrise if anyone's interested in learning it, or just curious. Memrise is free to use by the way, so no worries in that regard.
Oh that's really interesting! I've been interested in Norn for a while and have always wanted to learn it, but I didn't think that it would be available anywhere. I've already checked it out and have learned a lot already. Thank you so much!
Just looked it up now, I didn't realize that when I was making the video! Still though, the flag I used is cool, the color combination is a bit odd but the flag still looks iconic. I love Nordic cross flags, even if the cross symbolism is a bit opposed to my belief LOL, they still look great
I’m not a native speaker of Swedish but I speak it well and read it with ease. I find Guntnish fairly easy to read with the exception of a few words. I found it easier than Elfdahlian which seems more grammatically conservative. I do have a good friend from Fårö who seems to have forgotten her dialect or at least is no longer fluent in it, but her brothers who still live there speak it regularly. Apparently it’s distinct but mutually intelligible with Gutnish. There’s quite a bit more vocabulary from Plattdeutsch in Gutnish which would be predictable since Visby was a Hanseatic trading port
Yes it is rather easy to read an old text of gutnish, much easier compared to älvdals-dialect which is almost impossible to understand even for someone from the neighbouring parishes which have very different dialects.
@@CheLanguages I know hahaha, but it depends on how to determine the term dialect. I would definitely agree that it is a language, but then again as also the dialect archive in Uppsala pointed out, there are many more different dialects that are very different from swedish standard
Vilamovian does honestly look exactly like what it would look like if a bunch of Germans wanted to disguise their texts as Polish for some reason. Also, it's honestly amazing how understandable these languages seem from just speaking three Germanic languages. Keyword "seem", I'm certain I'd understand jack if I ever came across these languages in real life.
@@CheLanguages jú almóst trykt mí... Aj glánst at thys, and łythaut mucz thót, Aj asjúmd yt łoz Afrikaans, thęn a mynyt lęjtr tuk a klósr luk, and rílajzd tłoz ińlysz. wwww
One language I never actually see mentioned is that of the Transylvanian Saxons, who emigrated into the space sometime during the 13th century (Sometime during 1222-1224, going by two Golden Bulls issued by King András/Andrew). Their German is pretty unique and has considerable influence from both Romanian and Hungarian.
Thank you for your discussion of Norn. I only heard of it once previously, where it featured in a TikTok story that I cannot locate at present. As best I recall (and I apologize for any errors or omissions), it begins with a certain ethnomusicologist who was visiting the island of Shetland and expressed an interest in old songs that contained "nonsense" words (like "tra-la-la, hey diddle-diddle", or "hi ho the derry-o"). He found a local folksinger who had memorized a song that was all nonsense to him. When he perfomed it, the visitor recognized certain lines as being in Norn (which was already long dead by that time; I suppose our friend had learned other Norn songs in his travels). The punchline of the story was not just that lines of an unfamiliar language had been memorized as a series of apparent nonsense syllables, but that the song title was "King Orfeo", and was a Celtic variation of the ancient Greek legend, which had somehow made its way from the shores of the Mediterranean to the northern isles. The underworld is recast as the land of the faeries, their king stands in for Hades, and instead of a lyre Orfeo makes irresistable music on his "pipes" (maybe bagpipes?). I found a similar story in the beginning of the discussion at mainlynorfolk.info/steeleye.span/songs/orfeo.html Anyone with related info is invited to comment.
How interesting. Many of these legends and myths passed around Europe and even Indo-European communities for years, similar folklore can be found around the place. It's really cool that the locals had memorized parts of Norn, I mentioned in the video that Norn had some influence on the local Scots too, I imagine apart from place names, this was mainly through oral tradition. Thank you for your comment!
There's a small course on basic Norn vocabulary on Memrise if you'd like to assist in that regard, or just curious. Memrise is free to use, so no worries there.
Wonder if duolingo do Norn? I’m from Scotland (north east). We use some words from the Scandinavian Germanic languages, and many from Scottish Gaelic. Our place names are nearly all Gaelic, but on the coast there are some Viking names, I worked with many Shetlanders who are proud of their Viking and Pictish (Cruithnich) heritage.
@@McConnachy It's unlikely but that being said, they keep adding endangered languages. Given it has no native speakers today, it's unlikely. There is a course on Memrise however, as has been previously mentioned somewhere in the comments so there's that to check out if you're interested!
15:10 As a Norwegian I could understand a lot of this, but not all. Many words are similar to Norsk Nynorsk, for example: Kerlaikins - Kjærleikens Kýrko - kyrkje Blómur - blomer
Vilamovian, or "Wilmesaurisch" in German is very interesting for me as an Austrian, speaking both Styrian and Tyrolean dialects. Even the positioning of the words in the "pater noster" could be the same in my dialect: "Unsa Vota, du bäist im Himmül, dai Nauman sull sai gwaiht; dai Käinigraich sull käimman, dai Wülle sull sai im Himmül und auf da Eadn." etc. However, it sounds a bit more archaic than we would really say it... ^^ ;)
Austrian German is very different from what I've heard, it looks nothing like Standard German at all from what you just wrote. It's fascinating that Wilamowicean wasn't too difficult for you to read. Thank you for this comment!
I only knew about Gotland dialect (which itself has some fun features), not that it has its' own language. It's easier to understand than Elfdalian. I understand that the text has something to do with a church. With more time, I might understand it entirerly, maybe..
12:18 Standard Swedish does have phonemic retroflex consonants. "rt" [ʈ], "rd" [ɖ], "rn" [ɳ], "rs" [ʂ] and "rl" [ɭ] to be specific. However, they are lost in several dialects. The dialect of the area where I live (that being Jönköpingsmål or Småländska) is famous throughout Sweden for pronouncing the retroflexes as their alveolar counterparts (albeit most people don't know about this terminology). This dialectal phenomenon is widely celebrated in Sweden on the first Thursday of Mars every year by eating a First Thursday of Mars Cake, locally known as "Fössta tossdan i mass-tååta" (Standard Swedish "Första torsdagen i mars-tårta"), which in and of itself examplifies four cases of deretroflexing. It's amazing how dialects can have such influence on the culture
And as for the Gutnish sample text, As a native Swedish speaker I almost understand every single word, at least in the written form, with ease. I looked up a spoken sample of the language, and understood maybe 50% of the words there. Anyways, it's by far easier to understand than Elfdalian.
12:40 What? Swedish *_does_* have those retroflex consonants. Not every dialect (since it depends on the 'r'), but the main ones, including standard swedish, do have it. (southern dialects being a notable exception)
I'm talking about standard Swedish (Stockholm), which does not include retroflex consonants. Other dialects obviously have closer features to Gutnish given the general continuum of dialects in Scandinavia
@@CheLanguages I live in Norrköping which used to be a port with ships sailing to e.g. Visby and my dialect is famous for our diftongs not present in standard swedish. Räv = fox is famously pronouneced approx "oäv" with r as a near o sound
@@CheLanguages Both Standard Swedish and the Stockholm dialect use retroflex consonants. I already double checked with audio samples of standard Swedish before posting, and this time I triple checked with audio samples of the Stockholm dialect.
I don't know much Swedish but I've been learning Danish for a bit over a year. I struggled with the Gutnish text if I tried to ignore the English translation, but I understood enough to feel it is quite "typically" Scandinavian.
10:17 I suppose the chief reason why Ny-Norn isn't written with diacritics is so you would have no problems writing texts in the language with a standard UK keyboard.
Not Swedish but I do in fact speak Swedish fluently, but the elfdalian language is more or less impossible and the gutnish was waaaaaaaay easier to understand :)
As a native german speaker, it kind of surprised me, that I can understand nearly everthing from the Vilamovian' Lord's Prayer, but if I think about it, it's in many ways near to german, so, that would make sense. And by the way, amazing, that you hit the 4k just three weeks after the 3k. I really enjoy your content!
A language that I'd recommend you to at least look into is Meänkieli (though it is not a germanic language but an uralic language), it is a dying language spoken in northern Sweden (and some northern parts of Finland I think) that derived from Finnish but has, after a long time of isolation from standard Finnish and influence by Swedish (and possibly some influence from Sami (another language that I recommend you should check out if you haven't)), developed into its own language. My grandmother speaks it and has spoken it her entire life (if you were to decide to include this language in some future video, it will be possible for me to answer questions if you have any). Although, I don't exactly know how different it is from Finnish so maybe it doesn't fit the criteria, if it doesn't I would recommend the earlier mentioned Sami and another language called Kven, but I barely know anything about these languages except that Sami has a lot of dialects and is spoken in Sweden, Norway, Finland and Russia. Anyway, I hope at least something in this long text piqued your interest. Edit: some spelling errors
That's awesome! My part 2 to Forgotten Uralic languages is coming out in a couple of hours, stay tuned. I wish I'd have known, I can always include it next time.
Swede here. I would say that Elfdalian and Gutnish are equally hard to read. Once you read it out loud, then it becomes easier to understand. Some parts remind me of the very few Icelandic words that I know, which helps.
As a native speaker of Swedish, I'd say that I find Gutnish easier than Elfdalian, even if I can read both to a reasonable degree. However, I'm not unwilling to admit that some of my understanding Gutnish is also because I'm a part of what is called Gotlands Nation where I attend university, so we have some Gutnish songs and whatnot which we sing during dinner! I really should look more into it as I do have access to it via my nation library, but I'm also currently studying Finnish and Irish with Southern Sami being added to that roster next semester, so my hands are full. 😅
WOW! Sounds like you are very busy LOL, that's quite an interesting selection of languages to be studying too, I'm most interested in the Southern Sami right there....
@@CheLanguages mostly because the university I go to are only offering southern sami every second or every third year (same with north sami), so I am mostly going for it while I can. I have a large interest in the Uralic language tree in general and in the future hope to possibly work with minority languages! Both Finnish and Sami (all varieties supposedly) are official minority languages in Sweden, so that is another big reason. Irish just sort of happened, but it does fit into the theme of minority languages for me at the very least.
Since you spoke about Norn, I suppose that means you aren't restricting yourself to living languages, in which case, might I suggest to talk about an East Germanic tongue, if you're interested? Basically all of them do fall under the description of "often forgotten".
Planning on Gothic in the next video, along with one of the Frisian languages, and another language I won't mention but isn't spoken in Europe (nor Afrika before you say Afrikaans)
@@CheLanguages Could you share the source with the rest of us? And I think you're correct that standard Swedish doesn't have a retroflex r. My comment apply to the retroflex t and d (as well as s, l, and n). Disclaimer: I'm not a proffesional linguist, so you should take what I say with a grain of salt (as with anyone in a youtube comment field).
Actually it is gutniska instead of gutinska. The dialect of Fårö is actually a bit closer to dialects of eastern Sweden and I think also Åland. Gotska sandön is uninhabited. The gotlandish dialect you can hear if you are lucky in the southern part of Gotland more precisely southeastern part and especially the parishes Lau and När and maybe some others further south. Further to the north the true dialects seem to be vanishing sadly enough, but you hear the accent and some of the typical sounds. They also have an academy for the preservation of gutnish. Perhaps you mentioned that. I will listen to the video again. Very good video. Thanks so much.
Some other people also noted the mistake with Gutniska, I copied the name I thought I saw, but misread it, genuinely is just my mistake so I apologize. Yes, I talked about Foroymal and Laumal too. Oh yes, and I mentioned the academy plus the University of Gotland's Gutniska course. I hope this ancient language will be prezerved for the future generations and popularized across all of Gotland!
@@CheLanguages Yes I am sorry I was writing while you mentioned that. I listened to that about fårömål and laumål also. I lived there a couple of years ago not far from När and Lau southern Gotland, but I never really had the opportunity to hear true gotlandish. Thank you so much again
I think you got two letters trasnposed in the Gutnic language name. It's gutNIska not gutINska. At least if that's supposed to be the name in standard Swedish. (And I'm almost certain "gutinska" isn't the name the speakers use for that language). Also Laumål is the variety of Gutnic spoken in Lau parish (on main Gotland) and often consider the central area of Gutnic, but not neccesarily the name of all varieties spoken on main Gotland (as oposed to the smaller Fårö island to the north).
I mentioned Faroymal too, no? I just found those names on Wikipedia, I know it's not always the most credible source, but everywhere else I saw also used that name. I'm not a Swedish nor Gutnish speaker as I am sure you can tell
@@CheLanguages I have no problem with the term Fårömål. The issue is that you're using (afaik) Laumål with a broader meaning than it atually has. (It's possible for all I know that Gutniska only exists on Fåre and in Lau, in which Laumål would be the only variety spoken on Gotland proper. But the term still explicitly refers to that single parish).
I, as a Scandinavian, could understand a little more of half of the Gutnish text, also part of the norn and pick up a few things in the first language :)
@@CheLanguages Most of our languages in Scandinavia has it's roots/core in old norse/old east norse, and so has norn and quite a few words reminded of norwegian :)
@@janjohansen9361 apparently Norn claims to be quite similar, though it's obviously different. For a long time, it was just called "Norse", Norn is a fairly modern term
@@CheLanguages Yeah, I think it also was because less contact with mainland Scandinavia that it became it's own language, but I don't know. I am Danish myself so maybe that I understand all three Scandinavian languages plus speak Swedish helped a little bit. I would say in it's written form it has the same level of difficulty as Faroese or maybe a lttle bit easier 😀
I could understans most part of it the gutnish text. Like you said, very swedish like. In text, at least , I find it easier than elfdailian. But I don't know if I would have understood if in spoken. It was some words in gutish that I did not get at first. But by looking at the english text, I saw that it was clearly a word that is similar in swedish
That translation definitely helps! Sadly, I know no Scandinavian languages, it's good to hear from Swedish speakers to know what you guys think about it!
@@CheLanguages Watched the video and I loved the vilamovian language. Strange how a language could survive in such a small area. Great video once again.
Strange... BG: I'm a Swiss German speaker, in the Allemanian region. I have never read Swedish or Gutnish before, apart from the names at IKEA. But I can somewhat read the Gutnish text and compare the differences and similarities to English in terms of the words used!
I grew up with Sauerlandisch, the region that is the homeland of the Saxons, which enabled me to easily understand Dutch and Flemish, and then English. Much later I learned Fränkisch in Luxembourg and the part of Germany close to it. Yet later, there was Pennsylvania Dutch in Ontario, Canada.
I'm Finnish but I've spoken Swedish from birth, and I can understand most words of Gutnish and can vaguely understand the whole thing. Some words are identical but have a different letter, most notably using a's instead of ä or e
@@CheLanguages It's very confusing to why my family speaks Swedish, it stems from my great grandma who left Germany in the 1930s to Latvia and when they got invaded in 1940 to Finland where she chose to learn Swedish instead of Finnish and passed it down to the family. More broadly about Swedish speaking area, all Finnish-speaking schools are mandated to teach Swedish, and the central west coast as well as parts of the southwest coast speak majority Swedish with many people not speaking Finnish at all there. Swedish is slowly losing its usage in Finland because most people just find it completely useless and prefer to learn German or Russian, and there have been efforts to get it removed from schools.
@@CheLanguages yes I do and have since birth, as my dad only speaks Finnish. You can't really survive without it outside of the Åland islands and some cities in the west coast like Vaasa and Kristinestad, as only around 15% of Finland speak fluent Swedish at all
In Brazil there is a germanic language called pomeranian, it was brought to Brazil by the immigrants. Pommeranian was german dialect in past but germans cant understand it nowdays and the language is not spoken in europe anymore, it is spoken mostly in Brazil by the descendents of the immigrants that came to Brazil in the middle odf the 19th century. My grand-grandfather was a pommeranian speaker, I had the pleasure to talk with him when he was alive. I am studying german so we could compare the two languages. I saw that it is pretty similar to german but there are some diferences. In german the word 'beautiful' is schön but in pommeranian is something like huepsh. In german the word 'girl' is Mädchen but in pommeranian is something like Mecka.
German here: Vilamovian was almost completely intelligible when I became aware that the text in the video was the „Vater unser“, in the case of the Video „Ynzer Foter“
Who knows this tiny bit of something well known? Attar unsar, du in himinam, weihnai namo dein...... He, who wrote this, was the first to translate the bible into a Germanic language.
Wymysorys is used in upper silesia, not lower silesia. Lover silesia is above upper silesia on he map. Upper silesia is higher cause its in the mountains, that's the trick ;P
Yes, I know this, but Wilamowice is in the Lower Silesia Voivodeship according to my research, unless I got this wrong? I mentioned the Voivodeship, not the Geographic location per se
@@CheLanguages It’s wrong. I’m from Wrocław was born and grew up there and this is lower Silesia (ger. Neder Schlesien). Wilamowice when You read in wikipedia says “Silesia” and it means upper Silesia (ger. Ober Schlesien). It can be difficult cause Silesia was separated into upper and lower first after II WW. In history it was one organisms with the capital in Wrocław. I hope You’re not upset I’m saying that. For people from “general Silesia” it’s very important..
Wilamowice is Lesser Poland historically, modern Województwa borders are a bullshit. Great example is Łódzkie that is made out of Łęczyca (,/-) Sieradz (original historical region on it's own) and Rawa land (Mazovia), plus a chunk of Sandomierskie (Lesser Poland).
@@bartakstergart2982 no of course I'm not upset by it, I love Poland and learning more about it, even a little bit of po polsku. Thank you for clearing my confusion up!
Honestly, that would be all of them. Even Latvian and Lithuanian are very overlooked. So, I'd certainly be happy with a video on any of them. Prussian in particular has always been most curious to me.
Wow. Vilamovian...now, I had 2 yrs of basic German in HS with another yr in university...and haven't used it in over 50nyrs. And yet I could read the prayer and understand it. LOL
@@CheLanguagesClose: Aj łonder if łi kud du dat sejm in Ynglisz mejby. Dziękuję za interesujący film. - I wonder if you will recognize the first word in this sentence and it is one of many Germanic words that evolved alongside Polish since it's beginning.
@@Dziki_z_Lasu No, I wouldn't recognize it from Germanic, but from my knowledge of Polish I understood that you said "Thank you for this interesting film/video"
Like the other commentors, I found the Gutnic text easier to understand than the Elfdalian. But that could have to do with the genres or the particular texts rather than the languages. One short paragraph isn't exactly a reliable sample... (Spoken, both languages are completely impossible to understand. Especially if when the speaker wants to embarass the Stockhomians. And they do want that!)
suggestion languages for a 3rd forgotten Germanic languages video: Prussian (extinct) Gothic (extinct) Transylvanian Saxon Pennsylvanian Dutch Texas German
@@CheLanguages To my understanding, Prussian was a Baltic language until German colonization when their dialect of German became called Prussian too. I think there were two Prussians historically and one was Baltic, and one was Germanic, but it may be some kind of myth so further research is suggested
@@CheLanguages can you make one video about East Pomeranian (Ostpommersch) that is extinct in europe but continues to be talked about in the prussian community in Brazil?
@@dracodistortion9447 That is correct. Around Middle Ages when Teutonic knight settled and in the process of so called Christianisation and mass murders in the name of God, Prussian became mostly Germanic. Actually in chronicle of Prokosz this was originally Lechitic (Slavic) tribes called Borusy later written as Brusy and became Baltic-Slavic mixed tribe and later influenced by Germanic language so possibly name was changed to Prusy (Prussia) by Germanic language influence.
The Gutnish language is very similar to swedish i could understand a lot but it is a bit different in some places but definitely a different language. Its a lot easier to understand then elfdalian
Wait, really? That's odd, Gutnish is more distantly related to Swedish. But then again, it is also true that Norwegian is more closely related to Icelandic and Faroese... I guess this is just a bizarre quirk of Norse tongues.
Similar to Swedish? Are you sure that it was real Gutnish then, and not Gotländska, which is Swedish with a Gotlandic accent? Mu stepfather's mom came from Gotland, and she could speak real Gutnish. I am a native Swedish speaker, and I didn't understand a word of it. I know a few words, like leilgardslukku, which means trädgårdsgrind (garden gate in English). Then there is kränku (mjölkpall in Swedish), which is a stool that the maids on the farms sat on when milking the cows. However there are a few words that are similar to Swedish, but sound more like German. There are words like stein (in Swedish sten and Stein in German), which is stone in English. Also bein (ben in Swedish, Bein in German), and in English it can be wither bone or leg.
I like your video content. You might want to consider prepping what you’re going to say or at least edit it a bit. The pauses and stuttering sounds more conversational than educational.
I used to script my videos, but it became a problem and I actually made more errors and sounded like a robot too. Simply put, I'm not very good at reading out loud as a confession. Though you do raize a good point, and I am trying to eliminate my umms and ahhs these days. Sometimes I reshoot parts of the video if I do it too much, or ramble on a bit too long. Thank you for the criticizm though, it lets me know that I need to try harder!
It is funny, but my Swissgerman Background allowed me to read Norn very easily, I never had it easy to understand Danisch, it seemed as easy as Flämisch.
@@CheLanguages But not Danish. Hollandic is quite easy to read and to understand. There is no Dialekt-Kontinium between the Deutschen Language and the Scandinavian Languages. So I was surprised that i got this Nordic Language right.
@@erikheddergott5514 yeah, West Germanic does get very different from North Germanic. I wonder how well we'd understand East Germanic languages if they still existed!
5:11 Not hard at all for a German speaker to discern that this has got to be the Lord's Prayer. Would be interesting to hear it spoken out loud. Because from the mere written text, I cannot tell how intelligible this language would be for me. Could be extremely well intelligible, could be completely incomprehensible.
Someone in the comments from Austria said that he can more or less read the language, but he's heard it spoken before and could barely recognize what language was being spoken
hi, i'm german, my grandma spoke vilamovian, i grew up with her reciting the pater noster in vilamovian. the text reads pretty much as how she pronounced it, but when you here it spoken, i'd still say it's more or less intelligible to a standard german speaker. i always found it kind of sounded a little like very heavy bavarian to me, just in terms of how far it warped pronunciation. very hard to understand everything, but possible if i listen closely. of course at some point i was used to how she spoke. my mom didn't grow up in lower silesia and thus never learnt vilamovian, so i only have my late grandma as an example and can't really compare how accurate it was.
It's a myth that the Danish crown oppressed Faroese (and Norwegian). The proof is the fact that Faroese survived in full. But each island had its own dialect and only during the 19th century Faroese scholars managed to create a common standard Faroese written language. During the times of the Dano-Norwegian union, no one was forced to speak or write to a specific standard. Saami was supported as well, and the oppression of Saami language and culture occurred as a result of Norwegian post-independence nationalism.
theres this 1 language that most ppl call a dialect, however it is so distinct from the other dialects that im sure its a different language, it is spoken in groningen and theres only 1 fluentish speaker left (and im learning it) and a lot of words have alr been merged with groningse words im not comfortable sharing its true name since its basically the name of the village in which i live, but i call it onsprag [ɔ̃ⁿzbrɐꭓ] (note that the zb is in this case an allophone of sp bc the nasal vowel voices sibilants and plosives get voiced between voiced cons) this name is a wordplay on ommsprag which means dialect and onsprag comes from ons sprag which means our language it has a few notable features that u dont find anywhere else near us like nasalization and person marking, an example sentence "i am going to school today" would be "koon distag t'sgool noor" or "i have never seen him before" "kep'm newe sojn" or a more complex one, "if i didnt walk to the store, i would be eating some fruit rn" "of knii't go t'laat noor, sgol'k nu spis fo appul"
@@CheLanguages there rnt any documents on it, its to local :p, however im working on documenting it, and once i think ive got enough to share id love to share it with u
As a native swedish speaker I think that at least writen Gutnish is quite easy to understand, easier than writen elfdalian. Although I have heard from an old family friend (who used to live on Gotland) that spoken Gutnish is almost incomprehensible, but that is kind of the case for most germanic languages, their writen forms are often easier to understand than their spoken counterpart, but they are also relatively easy to understand after some exposure to them, I find that this is the case for norwegian and danish.
I agree that the written form was pretty easy to understand even though I totally missed "kerlaikins skavlgard" which I suppose is cognate with "kärlekens skolgård" in swedish and your clue about missing ö prepared me for understanding "fyrr" meaning "förr" in swedish. There are also a song I recommend you to listen to "summarn kummar" available on spotify and used to be a minihit in most of Sweden back in the 80's
@@mikaelrundqvist2338 Thanks for the recomendation. I gave it a listen and that wasn't too hard to understand. Maybe a very thick gutnish accent is harder to understand? My old family friend was in a very rural part of eastern Gotland when he stumbled upon an old farmer who spoke gutnish, I should really ask him when I see him again. There could also be large dielectal variations, like when it comes to norwegian, some dialects are fairly easy to understand without much exposure, while some are quite hard to understand.
I loved hearing about this from a Swedish speaker, and yes, it's the case in a lot of "sister languages", the written form is easier than the spoken counterpart. Thank you for your comment!
@@CheLanguages and when pronouncing it's easy to feel how close y and ö is. As an englishspeaker try using approx the a sound in "an" and you are close to how I as a swede from Östergötlands northern parts pronounce ö
I would like to open a conversation about something almost never mentioned: When Karl was King of the Franken, he and his people only spoke Fränkisch. Which, of course, was/is a Germanic language. There was no France, and no French language. Did Karl or his people speak, read, or write Latin? Hardly! Karl had his priests who also acted as his scribes. I often ask French people: who was the greatest French Hero of all times? The answer is always the same: Charlemagne! Now let's be very clear: In his time there very clearly was no Charlemagne! He was definitely a Germanic Franke and nothing else. And so were his people. I realize that in what is today's France, there were still Romans, Kelts, Goths and assorted other minorities, all with their own languages. However the Franken were the masters of all. Therefore I would have expected the Fränkisch language to prevail, similar to Dutch or German. The reason for the different change in France, by just looking at the peoples involved, doesn't seem obvious at all. Perhaps a somewhat greater change than Dutch or German, but not such great and different change.
@@CheLanguages I think it's too easy to say they died out. They and their language are still around in parts of France, Belgium, even the Netherlands, and Germany. One must never forget, that once upon a time, the ruled all of Western Europe, that there was a Fränkisch , not French, Empire. The holy Roman Empire of German Nation. And the Dudes running it were still Franken, not Frenchmen, while the Dude running the whole Shebang was called Karl, not Charlemagne, all the while having a 30 year war with the Saxons and their King Wedukind or Wittekind. There was no France or French. Then a couple of generations later: Voila, there's France, and French. Ok, the division is very clear. All was divided among Descendents of Karl, King of the Frank's and Holy Roman Emperor. Perhaps I need to think that in the part that is now France, the Germanic Franken were a ruling minority, all the different languages got mixed and there is French. Come to think of it, my wife is of Manchu descent and that is what actually happened in China. The Manchu, as the Mongols before, were a ruling minority and therefore their language has mostly disappeared. Have you been sticking with me through this dissertation? If so, congratulations and my undying thanks Milord.
It’s difficult to understand you because you took talk too fast, not clear and not loud enough. Additionally there is music in the background which makes it even harder to comprehend. Of course your content is very interesting and I would like to listen to it.
Thank you for the criticizm, but check out my latest video. I think I solved the audio issues. Also if I'm too fast, just slow the video down, I think I'm too slow LOL
@@Artur_M. You have nothing to worry about. Unless I have a good reason to believe otherwise, I wouldn't assume most of a certain group is a certain way from one instance. I know this person is representative of a sizable attitude in Poland, but by no means the absolutely dominant one.
Once again, I thank you all for 3K! I hope everyone liked the video, which was your favorite language?
I've not watched it all yet, but I'm really excited since I saw Wymysorys on there!
Polish >>>>>>>>>>> Wilamowicean
They're all awesome, Wymysorys is my favorite overall
@@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewicz991 Bruh
@@AvrahamYairStern That's cool, I think it's my favorite too
There's actually a short course on some basic Norn vocabulary on Memrise if anyone's interested in learning it, or just curious. Memrise is free to use by the way, so no worries in that regard.
That's cool, I might check that one out, even though I don't particularly get along with Memrise too well
Oh that's really interesting! I've been interested in Norn for a while and have always wanted to learn it, but I didn't think that it would be available anywhere. I've already checked it out and have learned a lot already. Thank you so much!
@@h-Qalziel you're welcome.
@@h-Qalziel Good luck with learning it, maybe you will become a key figure in the revival? Let me know how it goes!
That's actually an unofficial flag of Gotland. The official one features a sheep against a blue background
Just looked it up now, I didn't realize that when I was making the video! Still though, the flag I used is cool, the color combination is a bit odd but the flag still looks iconic. I love Nordic cross flags, even if the cross symbolism is a bit opposed to my belief LOL, they still look great
I’m not a native speaker of Swedish but I speak it well and read it with ease. I find Guntnish fairly easy to read with the exception of a few words. I found it easier than Elfdahlian which seems more grammatically conservative. I do have a good friend from Fårö who seems to have forgotten her dialect or at least is no longer fluent in it, but her brothers who still live there speak it regularly. Apparently it’s distinct but mutually intelligible with Gutnish. There’s quite a bit more vocabulary from Plattdeutsch in Gutnish which would be predictable since Visby was a Hanseatic trading port
Very interesting to hear your feedback. Thank you!
Yes it is rather easy to read an old text of gutnish, much easier compared to älvdals-dialect which is almost impossible to understand even for someone from the neighbouring parishes which have very different dialects.
@@LadetJahonen Elfdalian isn't really a dialect, Peter Helander would be angry
@@CheLanguages
I know hahaha, but it depends on how to determine the term dialect. I would definitely agree that it is a language, but then again as also the dialect archive in Uppsala pointed out, there are many more different dialects that are very different from swedish standard
@@LadetJahonen many indeed, and they should be languages too, no?
Vilamovian does honestly look exactly like what it would look like if a bunch of Germans wanted to disguise their texts as Polish for some reason.
Also, it's honestly amazing how understandable these languages seem from just speaking three Germanic languages.
Keyword "seem", I'm certain I'd understand jack if I ever came across these languages in real life.
LOL pretty much
Yt mejks mi wunder yf wi kud du da sejm for Ynglysz
@@CheLanguages paerhejps yf wij tray tou soond trunk inouf
@@CheLanguages jú almóst trykt mí... Aj glánst at thys, and łythaut mucz thót, Aj asjúmd yt łoz Afrikaans, thęn a mynyt lęjtr tuk a klósr luk, and rílajzd tłoz ińlysz. wwww
@@CheLanguages Dont ju miin it mejks ju łonder?
One language I never actually see mentioned is that of the Transylvanian Saxons, who emigrated into the space sometime during the 13th century (Sometime during 1222-1224, going by two Golden Bulls issued by King András/Andrew). Their German is pretty unique and has considerable influence from both Romanian and Hungarian.
I'll look into it, I can't say I've ever heard of it before!
Thank you for your discussion of Norn. I only heard of it once previously, where it featured in a TikTok story that I cannot locate at present. As best I recall (and I apologize for any errors or omissions), it begins with a certain ethnomusicologist who was visiting the island of Shetland and expressed an interest in old songs that contained "nonsense" words (like "tra-la-la, hey diddle-diddle", or "hi ho the derry-o"). He found a local folksinger who had memorized a song that was all nonsense to him. When he perfomed it, the visitor recognized certain lines as being in Norn (which was already long dead by that time; I suppose our friend had learned other Norn songs in his travels). The punchline of the story was not just that lines of an unfamiliar language had been memorized as a series of apparent nonsense syllables, but that the song title was "King Orfeo", and was a Celtic variation of the ancient Greek legend, which had somehow made its way from the shores of the Mediterranean to the northern isles. The underworld is recast as the land of the faeries, their king stands in for Hades, and instead of a lyre Orfeo makes irresistable music on his "pipes" (maybe bagpipes?). I found a similar story in the beginning of the discussion at
mainlynorfolk.info/steeleye.span/songs/orfeo.html
Anyone with related info is invited to comment.
How interesting. Many of these legends and myths passed around Europe and even Indo-European communities for years, similar folklore can be found around the place. It's really cool that the locals had memorized parts of Norn, I mentioned in the video that Norn had some influence on the local Scots too, I imagine apart from place names, this was mainly through oral tradition. Thank you for your comment!
Congratulations on 3.5k subs!
Thank you! It means a lot. What is your favorite video?
@@CheLanguages This one, and the one about African Romance.
Oh yeah, I wish I could talk more about that, sad there's not much on it
@@CheLanguages I was talking about this: ruclips.net/video/sssUwaXBrb0/видео.html
@@revinhatol yeah, sadly there's just not much information that exists about it anymore
I hope the Norn revival is successful
There's a small course on basic Norn vocabulary on Memrise if you'd like to assist in that regard, or just curious. Memrise is free to use, so no worries there.
Hopefully someday I'll include it in one of my revived languages videos
Wonder if duolingo do Norn? I’m from Scotland (north east). We use some words from the Scandinavian Germanic languages, and many from Scottish Gaelic. Our place names are nearly all Gaelic, but on the coast there are some Viking names, I worked with many Shetlanders who are proud of their Viking and Pictish (Cruithnich) heritage.
@@McConnachy that likely depends on how completely Nynorn is reconstructed.
@@McConnachy It's unlikely but that being said, they keep adding endangered languages. Given it has no native speakers today, it's unlikely. There is a course on Memrise however, as has been previously mentioned somewhere in the comments so there's that to check out if you're interested!
15:10
As a Norwegian I could understand a lot of this, but not all.
Many words are similar to Norsk Nynorsk, for example:
Kerlaikins - Kjærleikens
Kýrko - kyrkje
Blómur - blomer
That's an awesome link, thank you!
Suggestions for part 3: Hunsrik, Plautdietsch & Hutterite, all spoken exclusively in the Americas
I plan on taking about one of these
My girlfriends mother speaks Hunsrück. Weird dialect. Kind of similar to Luxembourgish.
@@BOBofGH That's cool, do you all live in Brasil?
Never forget Pennsylvania Dutch!
@@Fritz999 it's so interesting to me that it still survives
Most interesting. Keep them coming.
Will do, thank you as always!
9:02
The Lord's Prayer?
Yes it is
Vilamovian, or "Wilmesaurisch" in German is very interesting for me as an Austrian, speaking both Styrian and Tyrolean dialects. Even the positioning of the words in the "pater noster" could be the same in my dialect:
"Unsa Vota, du bäist im Himmül, dai Nauman sull sai gwaiht; dai Käinigraich sull käimman, dai Wülle sull sai im Himmül und auf da Eadn." etc.
However, it sounds a bit more archaic than we would really say it... ^^ ;)
Austrian German is very different from what I've heard, it looks nothing like Standard German at all from what you just wrote. It's fascinating that Wilamowicean wasn't too difficult for you to read. Thank you for this comment!
A bit more modern than Bishop Wulfila's Gothic German
@@Fritz999 I'm not familiar with that, what is it?
I only knew about Gotland dialect (which itself has some fun features), not that it has its' own language. It's easier to understand than Elfdalian. I understand that the text has something to do with a church. With more time, I might understand it entirerly, maybe..
That's interesting to hear, it's interesting given that Gutnish forms it's own sub branch too
12:18 Standard Swedish does have phonemic retroflex consonants. "rt" [ʈ], "rd" [ɖ], "rn" [ɳ], "rs" [ʂ] and "rl" [ɭ] to be specific. However, they are lost in several dialects.
The dialect of the area where I live (that being Jönköpingsmål or Småländska) is famous throughout Sweden for pronouncing the retroflexes as their alveolar counterparts (albeit most people don't know about this terminology). This dialectal phenomenon is widely celebrated in Sweden on the first Thursday of Mars every year by eating a First Thursday of Mars Cake, locally known as "Fössta tossdan i mass-tååta" (Standard Swedish "Första torsdagen i mars-tårta"), which in and of itself examplifies four cases of deretroflexing.
It's amazing how dialects can have such influence on the culture
And as for the Gutnish sample text, As a native Swedish speaker I almost understand every single word, at least in the written form, with ease.
I looked up a spoken sample of the language, and understood maybe 50% of the words there.
Anyways, it's by far easier to understand than Elfdalian.
Ah, that's really interesting. What does this linguistic celebration actually involve? That's cool!
12:40 What? Swedish *_does_* have those retroflex consonants. Not every dialect (since it depends on the 'r'), but the main ones, including standard swedish, do have it. (southern dialects being a notable exception)
I'm talking about standard Swedish (Stockholm), which does not include retroflex consonants. Other dialects obviously have closer features to Gutnish given the general continuum of dialects in Scandinavia
@@CheLanguages I live in Norrköping which used to be a port with ships sailing to e.g. Visby and my dialect is famous for our diftongs not present in standard swedish. Räv = fox is famously pronouneced approx "oäv" with r as a near o sound
@@CheLanguages Both Standard Swedish and the Stockholm dialect use retroflex consonants. I already double checked with audio samples of standard Swedish before posting, and this time I triple checked with audio samples of the Stockholm dialect.
@@mikaelrundqvist2338 We have a summer house in Vadstena, so I'm familiar with the red checkered rain coats you have in Östergötland...
@@Dayanto As I live in Stockholm I could just go outdoors and ask to kiss some strangers while we talk so I can check the position of their tounges
I don't know much Swedish but I've been learning Danish for a bit over a year. I struggled with the Gutnish text if I tried to ignore the English translation, but I understood enough to feel it is quite "typically" Scandinavian.
That's good to know, thank you! I hope your language studies go well!
10:17 I suppose the chief reason why Ny-Norn isn't written with diacritics is so you would have no problems writing texts in the language with a standard UK keyboard.
I'd agree, it looks odd though, a Scandinavian language with English orthography LOL
Because Norn speakers have been shifted into Scots.
@@MichaelPeterFustumum well yes, over centuries it seems
@@CheLanguages Some Norn words are still used in some Scots dialects.
@@CheLanguages Like some Breton speakers have been shifted into Gallo.
Not Swedish but I do in fact speak Swedish fluently, but the elfdalian language is more or less impossible and the gutnish was waaaaaaaay easier to understand :)
That's pretty much what other Swedish speakers told me, thank you
As a native german speaker, it kind of surprised me, that I can understand nearly everthing from the Vilamovian' Lord's Prayer, but if I think about it, it's in many ways near to german, so, that would make sense. And by the way, amazing, that you hit the 4k just three weeks after the 3k. I really enjoy your content!
Thank you, I know it's mind-blowing, though my subscriber rate has slowed down a lot now. I'm glad you enjoyed the Vilamovian sectjon
I’m supprised to find that Gutnish to me looks more like Nynorsk than it looks like Swedish!
That is surprizing!
A language that I'd recommend you to at least look into is Meänkieli (though it is not a germanic language but an uralic language), it is a dying language spoken in northern Sweden (and some northern parts of Finland I think) that derived from Finnish but has, after a long time of isolation from standard Finnish and influence by Swedish (and possibly some influence from Sami (another language that I recommend you should check out if you haven't)), developed into its own language. My grandmother speaks it and has spoken it her entire life (if you were to decide to include this language in some future video, it will be possible for me to answer questions if you have any). Although, I don't exactly know how different it is from Finnish so maybe it doesn't fit the criteria, if it doesn't I would recommend the earlier mentioned Sami and another language called Kven, but I barely know anything about these languages except that Sami has a lot of dialects and is spoken in Sweden, Norway, Finland and Russia. Anyway, I hope at least something in this long text piqued your interest.
Edit: some spelling errors
That's awesome! My part 2 to Forgotten Uralic languages is coming out in a couple of hours, stay tuned. I wish I'd have known, I can always include it next time.
@@CheLanguages Of course!
@@nagontingingenhar Video is up now, check it out!
@@CheLanguages I will!
@@nagontingingenhar I hope you enjoy it!
Swede here. I would say that Elfdalian and Gutnish are equally hard to read. Once you read it out loud, then it becomes easier to understand. Some parts remind me of the very few Icelandic words that I know, which helps.
A lot of Swedish commenters said they found Gutnish easier than Elfdalian, but still not easy. Thank you for your perspective!
As a native speaker of Swedish, I'd say that I find Gutnish easier than Elfdalian, even if I can read both to a reasonable degree. However, I'm not unwilling to admit that some of my understanding Gutnish is also because I'm a part of what is called Gotlands Nation where I attend university, so we have some Gutnish songs and whatnot which we sing during dinner! I really should look more into it as I do have access to it via my nation library, but I'm also currently studying Finnish and Irish with Southern Sami being added to that roster next semester, so my hands are full. 😅
WOW! Sounds like you are very busy LOL, that's quite an interesting selection of languages to be studying too, I'm most interested in the Southern Sami right there....
@@CheLanguages mostly because the university I go to are only offering southern sami every second or every third year (same with north sami), so I am mostly going for it while I can. I have a large interest in the Uralic language tree in general and in the future hope to possibly work with minority languages! Both Finnish and Sami (all varieties supposedly) are official minority languages in Sweden, so that is another big reason. Irish just sort of happened, but it does fit into the theme of minority languages for me at the very least.
North Norwegian, Central Norwegian and Faroese also have voiceless r's. I think some dialects in northern Sweden do too.
You are right yes
Since you spoke about Norn, I suppose that means you aren't restricting yourself to living languages, in which case, might I suggest to talk about an East Germanic tongue, if you're interested? Basically all of them do fall under the description of "often forgotten".
Planning on Gothic in the next video, along with one of the Frisian languages, and another language I won't mention but isn't spoken in Europe (nor Afrika before you say Afrikaans)
Swedish does have the retroflex r d and t
Apparently some dialects do, but standard doesn't
@@CheLanguages No, most varieties have them, including standard Swedish.
@@christerromsonlande6502 I stand corrected. It's not what I found before, but I have found other sources that prove that it does
@@CheLanguages Could you share the source with the rest of us?
And I think you're correct that standard Swedish doesn't have a retroflex r. My comment apply to the retroflex t and d (as well as s, l, and n).
Disclaimer: I'm not a proffesional linguist, so you should take what I say with a grain of salt (as with anyone in a youtube comment field).
Actually it is gutniska instead of gutinska.
The dialect of Fårö is actually a bit closer to dialects of eastern Sweden and I think also Åland.
Gotska sandön is uninhabited.
The gotlandish dialect you can hear if you are lucky in the southern part of Gotland more precisely southeastern part and especially the parishes Lau and När and maybe some others further south. Further to the north the true dialects seem to be vanishing sadly enough, but you hear the accent and some of the typical sounds.
They also have an academy for the preservation of gutnish. Perhaps you mentioned that. I will listen to the video again. Very good video. Thanks so much.
Some other people also noted the mistake with Gutniska, I copied the name I thought I saw, but misread it, genuinely is just my mistake so I apologize. Yes, I talked about Foroymal and Laumal too. Oh yes, and I mentioned the academy plus the University of Gotland's Gutniska course. I hope this ancient language will be prezerved for the future generations and popularized across all of Gotland!
And thank you for your comment, I greatly appreciate the clarifications and the support
@@CheLanguages
Yes I am sorry I was writing while you mentioned that. I listened to that about fårömål and laumål also. I lived there a couple of years ago not far from När and Lau southern Gotland, but I never really had the opportunity to hear true gotlandish. Thank you so much again
@@CheLanguages
Yes so do I !
@@LadetJahonen that's awesome you lived there, maybe it's never too late to learn Gutnish though?
I think you got two letters trasnposed in the Gutnic language name. It's gutNIska not gutINska. At least if that's supposed to be the name in standard Swedish. (And I'm almost certain "gutinska" isn't the name the speakers use for that language).
Also Laumål is the variety of Gutnic spoken in Lau parish (on main Gotland) and often consider the central area of Gutnic, but not neccesarily the name of all varieties spoken on main Gotland (as oposed to the smaller Fårö island to the north).
I mentioned Faroymal too, no? I just found those names on Wikipedia, I know it's not always the most credible source, but everywhere else I saw also used that name. I'm not a Swedish nor Gutnish speaker as I am sure you can tell
@@CheLanguages I have no problem with the term Fårömål. The issue is that you're using (afaik) Laumål with a broader meaning than it atually has. (It's possible for all I know that Gutniska only exists on Fåre and in Lau, in which Laumål would be the only variety spoken on Gotland proper. But the term still explicitly refers to that single parish).
@@christerromsonlande6502 ah, I thought it was a catch-all term for the rest of the dialect. I apologize
I, as a Scandinavian, could understand a little more of half of the Gutnish text, also part of the norn and pick up a few things in the first language :)
Part of the Norn too?! Wow
@@CheLanguages Most of our languages in Scandinavia has it's roots/core in old norse/old east norse, and so has norn and quite a few words reminded of norwegian :)
@@janjohansen9361 apparently Norn claims to be quite similar, though it's obviously different. For a long time, it was just called "Norse", Norn is a fairly modern term
@@CheLanguages Yeah, I think it also was because less contact with mainland Scandinavia that it became it's own language, but I don't know. I am Danish myself so maybe that I understand all three Scandinavian languages plus speak Swedish helped a little bit. I would say in it's written form it has the same level of difficulty as Faroese or maybe a lttle bit easier 😀
@@janjohansen9361 Ah interesting. How do you find Swedish and Norwegian as a Dane?
I really like English, especially Shakespearian English, but then there is Fränkisch which I had to learn within a few weeks, and then truly liked.
What ho! What dost thou meanst by Fränkish, I find it of main priority to enquire!
@@CheLanguages Fränkisch was/is the language of the Germanic tribes of the Franken.
@@Fritz999 yes, someone else already told me, thank you for clarifying with me
I could understans most part of it the gutnish text. Like you said, very swedish like. In text, at least , I find it easier than elfdailian. But I don't know if I would have understood if in spoken.
It was some words in gutish that I did not get at first. But by looking at the english text, I saw that it was clearly a word that is similar in swedish
That translation definitely helps! Sadly, I know no Scandinavian languages, it's good to hear from Swedish speakers to know what you guys think about it!
@@CheLanguages Try it out. If you speak some swedish or bokmål you would get by in both Oslo and Stockholm
Haven't watched the video yet but just want to comment on your new logo. Looks bledy great man, keep it up!
Thank you, I greatly appreciate it!
@@CheLanguages Watched the video and I loved the vilamovian language. Strange how a language could survive in such a small area. Great video once again.
Strange...
BG: I'm a Swiss German speaker, in the Allemanian region.
I have never read Swedish or Gutnish before, apart from the names at IKEA.
But I can somewhat read the Gutnish text and compare the differences and similarities to English in terms of the words used!
That's so interesting, awesome!!
I grew up with Sauerlandisch, the region that is the homeland of the Saxons, which enabled me to easily understand Dutch and Flemish, and then English.
Much later I learned Fränkisch in Luxembourg and the part of Germany close to it.
Yet later, there was Pennsylvania Dutch in Ontario, Canada.
@@Fritz999 that's a lot of Germanic languages! And which is your favorite?
I'm Finnish but I've spoken Swedish from birth, and I can understand most words of Gutnish and can vaguely understand the whole thing. Some words are identical but have a different letter, most notably using a's instead of ä or e
Are you part of the Swedish-speaking area of Finland then? Interesting
@@CheLanguages It's very confusing to why my family speaks Swedish, it stems from my great grandma who left Germany in the 1930s to Latvia and when they got invaded in 1940 to Finland where she chose to learn Swedish instead of Finnish and passed it down to the family. More broadly about Swedish speaking area, all Finnish-speaking schools are mandated to teach Swedish, and the central west coast as well as parts of the southwest coast speak majority Swedish with many people not speaking Finnish at all there. Swedish is slowly losing its usage in Finland because most people just find it completely useless and prefer to learn German or Russian, and there have been efforts to get it removed from schools.
@@9NineVolt I know that the Swedish-speaking population of Finland have a super cool flag though. Do you also speak Finnish?
@@CheLanguages yes I do and have since birth, as my dad only speaks Finnish. You can't really survive without it outside of the Åland islands and some cities in the west coast like Vaasa and Kristinestad, as only around 15% of Finland speak fluent Swedish at all
@@CheLanguages and yes the flag is quite awesome 😁
In Brazil there is a germanic language called pomeranian, it was brought to Brazil by the immigrants. Pommeranian was german dialect in past but germans cant understand it nowdays and the language is not spoken in europe anymore, it is spoken mostly in Brazil by the descendents of the immigrants that came to Brazil in the middle odf the 19th century.
My grand-grandfather was a pommeranian speaker, I had the pleasure to talk with him when he was alive. I am studying german so we could compare the two languages. I saw that it is pretty similar to german but there are some diferences.
In german the word 'beautiful' is schön but in pommeranian is something like huepsh.
In german the word 'girl' is Mädchen but in pommeranian is something like Mecka.
There is also Hunsrik, another Germanic language in Brasil
@@CheLanguages Brazil is a very language rich country. That’s awesome
@@CheLanguages If you ever want to talk abou Pomeranian in one of your videos. I could help if you need
@@caiokme3054 well, Part 3 of my Germanic languages videos will have it in, so send me an email!
It's very easy to understand.
I come from a family from Pommern, but from a different linguistic track: my people were of Sorbisch extraction.
German here: Vilamovian was almost completely intelligible when I became aware that the text in the video was the „Vater unser“, in the case of the Video „Ynzer Foter“
That's awesome! Interesting how the word order is different, that's more like Yiddish (Undzer vater)
The Norn translation of Pater Noster seems vagely similar to an old translation into Swedish. Not so much to the current translation, though.
Interesting to see that link still, given it's closer to Norwegian too
Another linguistic channel yey
Can you do a caucasus video
I've been planning on one for a while!
@@CheLanguages lol
Part 3 when
Couple of weeks maybe?
Who knows this tiny bit of something well known?
Attar unsar, du in himinam,
weihnai namo dein......
He, who wrote this, was the first to translate the bible into a Germanic language.
I'm guessing it's the Our Father prayer, but which Germanic language is it?
That language is Gothic.
And the writer was Wulfila, an early Germanic Christian before the Germanic people's were forced into Christianity.
@@Fritz999 I've never actually seen Gothic before, I want to include it in a future video
Standard Swedish does have those retroflex sounds.
Ah good to know
Is that just Stockholm dialect though?
@@CheLanguages No, most dialects have them.
Wymysorys is used in upper silesia, not lower silesia. Lover silesia is above upper silesia on he map. Upper silesia is higher cause its in the mountains, that's the trick ;P
Yes, I know this, but Wilamowice is in the Lower Silesia Voivodeship according to my research, unless I got this wrong? I mentioned the Voivodeship, not the Geographic location per se
@@CheLanguages It’s wrong. I’m from Wrocław was born and grew up there and this is lower Silesia (ger. Neder Schlesien). Wilamowice when You read in wikipedia says “Silesia” and it means upper Silesia (ger. Ober Schlesien). It can be difficult cause Silesia was separated into upper and lower first after II WW. In history it was one organisms with the capital in Wrocław. I hope You’re not upset I’m saying that. For people from “general Silesia” it’s very important..
Wilamowice is Lesser Poland historically, modern Województwa borders are a bullshit. Great example is Łódzkie that is made out of Łęczyca (,/-) Sieradz (original historical region on it's own) and Rawa land (Mazovia), plus a chunk of Sandomierskie (Lesser Poland).
@@bartakstergart2982 no of course I'm not upset by it, I love Poland and learning more about it, even a little bit of po polsku. Thank you for clearing my confusion up!
All 3 were pretty cool, actually. Impossible to choose only one.
That's great to hear you find them all interesting, there's so many to talk about, I need to make a part 3 soon!
could you do a forgotten baltic languages please ?
sudovian
prussian
latgalian
samogitian
Honestly, that would be all of them. Even Latvian and Lithuanian are very overlooked. So, I'd certainly be happy with a video on any of them. Prussian in particular has always been most curious to me.
@@oyoo3323 i agree. i am of lithuanian heritage so i’m gonna learn the language eventually, but i would also like to learn prussian
That's a great idea, though it might take a lot of research. I'll look into it
There is a Prussian revival going on rn I believe
Yeah, it's not a big branch at all, it would pretty much he all. Still though, I've never talked about them before but they do interest me
Wow. Vilamovian...now, I had 2 yrs of basic German in HS with another yr in university...and haven't used it in over 50nyrs. And yet I could read the prayer and understand it. LOL
That's cool, I love how it's written with Polish orthography but is still distinctively Germanic. Aj wunder yf wi kud du da sejm yn Ynglisz mejby
@@CheLanguagesClose: Aj łonder if łi kud du dat sejm in Ynglisz mejby.
Dziękuję za interesujący film. - I wonder if you will recognize the first word in this sentence and it is one of many Germanic words that evolved alongside Polish since it's beginning.
@@Dziki_z_Lasu I don't have a Polish keyboard for the w letter but yes
@@Dziki_z_Lasu No, I wouldn't recognize it from Germanic, but from my knowledge of Polish I understood that you said "Thank you for this interesting film/video"
@@CheLanguagesDevoice dzi and "de-nasalise" ę and you end with "Thank" ;)
Like the other commentors, I found the Gutnic text easier to understand than the Elfdalian. But that could have to do with the genres or the particular texts rather than the languages. One short paragraph isn't exactly a reliable sample... (Spoken, both languages are completely impossible to understand. Especially if when the speaker wants to embarass the Stockhomians. And they do want that!)
LOL yeah. I would still expect that you'd still find Gutnish easier to understand if I gave lots of other paragraphs too
@@CheLanguages So do I.
@@christerromsonlande6502 Indeed
suggestion languages for a 3rd forgotten Germanic languages video:
Prussian (extinct)
Gothic (extinct)
Transylvanian Saxon
Pennsylvanian Dutch
Texas German
I would add east Pomeranian dialect- pommereschplatt
Prussian was a Baltic language though? Gothic, certainly!
@@CheLanguages To my understanding, Prussian was a Baltic language until German colonization when their dialect of German became called Prussian too. I think there were two Prussians historically and one was Baltic, and one was Germanic, but it may be some kind of myth so further research is suggested
@@CheLanguages can you make one video about East Pomeranian (Ostpommersch) that is extinct in europe but continues to be talked about in the prussian community in Brazil?
@@dracodistortion9447 That is correct. Around Middle Ages when Teutonic knight settled and in the process of so called Christianisation and mass murders in the name of God, Prussian became mostly Germanic. Actually in chronicle of Prokosz this was originally Lechitic (Slavic) tribes called Borusy later written as Brusy and became Baltic-Slavic mixed tribe and later influenced by Germanic language so possibly name was changed to Prusy (Prussia) by Germanic language influence.
Standard Swedish has retroflex consonants, you are wrong
Not from what I found, certain dialects do but standard Swedish doesn't
@@CheLanguages do you have discord?
@@clanDeCo yes, in my bio
The Gutnish language is very similar to swedish i could understand a lot but it is a bit different in some places but definitely a different language. Its a lot easier to understand then elfdalian
Aha, that is the sort of answer I wanted to find out! Thank you for commenting, it's certainly useful to know!!!
Wait, really? That's odd, Gutnish is more distantly related to Swedish. But then again, it is also true that Norwegian is more closely related to Icelandic and Faroese... I guess this is just a bizarre quirk of Norse tongues.
I agree completely
@@oyoo3323 Ye all the north germanic languages are very similar
Similar to Swedish? Are you sure that it was real Gutnish then, and not Gotländska, which is Swedish with a Gotlandic accent? Mu stepfather's mom came from Gotland, and she could speak real Gutnish. I am a native Swedish speaker, and I didn't understand a word of it.
I know a few words, like leilgardslukku, which means trädgårdsgrind (garden gate in English). Then there is kränku (mjölkpall in Swedish), which is a stool that the maids on the farms sat on when milking the cows.
However there are a few words that are similar to Swedish, but sound more like German. There are words like stein (in Swedish sten and Stein in German), which is stone in English. Also bein (ben in Swedish, Bein in German), and in English it can be wither bone or leg.
I like your video content. You might want to consider prepping what you’re going to say or at least edit it a bit. The pauses and stuttering sounds more conversational than educational.
I used to script my videos, but it became a problem and I actually made more errors and sounded like a robot too. Simply put, I'm not very good at reading out loud as a confession. Though you do raize a good point, and I am trying to eliminate my umms and ahhs these days. Sometimes I reshoot parts of the video if I do it too much, or ramble on a bit too long. Thank you for the criticizm though, it lets me know that I need to try harder!
It is funny, but my Swissgerman Background allowed me to read Norn very easily, I never had it easy to understand Danisch, it seemed as easy as Flämisch.
That's really cool! Germanic languages are closer than we think sometimes (at least in writing)!
@@CheLanguages But not Danish. Hollandic is quite easy to read and to understand. There is no Dialekt-Kontinium between the Deutschen Language and the Scandinavian Languages. So I was surprised that i got this Nordic Language right.
@@erikheddergott5514 yeah, West Germanic does get very different from North Germanic. I wonder how well we'd understand East Germanic languages if they still existed!
it's not Schlesisch-Wilemau but Schlesisch-Wilmesau (1:50)
Ah sorry
Thank you for telling me
@@CheLanguages you're welcome.You do a great job !
@@dieterschindler6409 Thank you!
Gutnish is a lot easier than Elfdalian. There were only a few words i did not fully understand in the text.
Good to know, that lines up with what most people said in the comments. Thank you for your contribution!
How about something on the (now lost) Masurian dialect
Go to my Slavic Languages Part 2 video, I mention it there
5:11 Not hard at all for a German speaker to discern that this has got to be the Lord's Prayer.
Would be interesting to hear it spoken out loud. Because from the mere written text, I cannot tell how intelligible this language would be for me. Could be extremely well intelligible, could be completely incomprehensible.
Someone in the comments from Austria said that he can more or less read the language, but he's heard it spoken before and could barely recognize what language was being spoken
hi, i'm german, my grandma spoke vilamovian, i grew up with her reciting the pater noster in vilamovian. the text reads pretty much as how she pronounced it, but when you here it spoken, i'd still say it's more or less intelligible to a standard german speaker. i always found it kind of sounded a little like very heavy bavarian to me, just in terms of how far it warped pronunciation. very hard to understand everything, but possible if i listen closely. of course at some point i was used to how she spoke. my mom didn't grow up in lower silesia and thus never learnt vilamovian, so i only have my late grandma as an example and can't really compare how accurate it was.
It's a myth that the Danish crown oppressed Faroese (and Norwegian). The proof is the fact that Faroese survived in full. But each island had its own dialect and only during the 19th century Faroese scholars managed to create a common standard Faroese written language. During the times of the Dano-Norwegian union, no one was forced to speak or write to a specific standard. Saami was supported as well, and the oppression of Saami language and culture occurred as a result of Norwegian post-independence nationalism.
The Norn alphabet and pronunciation is provided by me.
What do you mean, you made it?
@@CheLanguages Look at the Omniglot page.
@@CheLanguages This information is provided by me.
Yo Wymysorys!
"Yo Mista Wymysorys, bitch!" - Jesse Pinkman
@@CheLanguages real 💀💀💀
Yola
Yola
Norn 💪💪
That's the spirit!
OOOOooooo Nice Nice, Good profile pic
Ah thank you, it's good to get positive feedback about the new look!
theres this 1 language that most ppl call a dialect, however it is so distinct from the other dialects that im sure its a different language, it is spoken in groningen and theres only 1 fluentish speaker left (and im learning it) and a lot of words have alr been merged with groningse words
im not comfortable sharing its true name since its basically the name of the village in which i live, but i call it onsprag [ɔ̃ⁿzbrɐꭓ] (note that the zb is in this case an allophone of sp bc the nasal vowel voices sibilants and plosives get voiced between voiced cons) this name is a wordplay on ommsprag which means dialect and onsprag comes from ons sprag which means our language
it has a few notable features that u dont find anywhere else near us like nasalization and person marking, an example sentence "i am going to school today" would be "koon distag t'sgool noor" or "i have never seen him before" "kep'm newe sojn" or a more complex one, "if i didnt walk to the store, i would be eating some fruit rn" "of knii't go t'laat noor, sgol'k nu spis fo appul"
I would like to know the language so I can research it, could you DM me it on Instagram?
@@CheLanguages there rnt any documents on it, its to local :p, however im working on documenting it, and once i think ive got enough to share id love to share it with u
@@Hwelhos That would be awesome
My favorite extinct germanic language would probably be greenlandic norse
Oooo and interesting topic, though I must say I don't know a whole lot about it
It diverged enough to become a new language?
Wymysorys gang
Wymysorys gang indeed!
Very interesting video.
I'm glad to hear it, what was your favorite part?
fun！
Good to hear it!
As a native swedish speaker I think that at least writen Gutnish is quite easy to understand, easier than writen elfdalian. Although I have heard from an old family friend (who used to live on Gotland) that spoken Gutnish is almost incomprehensible, but that is kind of the case for most germanic languages, their writen forms are often easier to understand than their spoken counterpart, but they are also relatively easy to understand after some exposure to them, I find that this is the case for norwegian and danish.
I agree that the written form was pretty easy to understand even though I totally missed "kerlaikins skavlgard" which I suppose is cognate with "kärlekens skolgård" in swedish and your clue about missing ö prepared me for understanding "fyrr" meaning "förr" in swedish. There are also a song I recommend you to listen to "summarn kummar" available on spotify and used to be a minihit in most of Sweden back in the 80's
@@mikaelrundqvist2338 Thanks for the recomendation. I gave it a listen and that wasn't too hard to understand. Maybe a very thick gutnish accent is harder to understand? My old family friend was in a very rural part of eastern Gotland when he stumbled upon an old farmer who spoke gutnish, I should really ask him when I see him again. There could also be large dielectal variations, like when it comes to norwegian, some dialects are fairly easy to understand without much exposure, while some are quite hard to understand.
I loved hearing about this from a Swedish speaker, and yes, it's the case in a lot of "sister languages", the written form is easier than the spoken counterpart. Thank you for your comment!
Interesting indeed, that ö gets replaced by y
@@CheLanguages and when pronouncing it's easy to feel how close y and ö is. As an englishspeaker try using approx the a sound in "an" and you are close to how I as a swede from Östergötlands northern parts pronounce ö
I would like to open a conversation about something almost never mentioned:
When Karl was King of the Franken, he and his people only spoke Fränkisch. Which, of course, was/is a Germanic language. There was no France, and no French language.
Did Karl or his people speak, read, or write Latin?
Hardly!
Karl had his priests who also acted as his scribes.
I often ask French people: who was the greatest French Hero of all times?
The answer is always the same: Charlemagne!
Now let's be very clear:
In his time there very clearly was no Charlemagne!
He was definitely a Germanic Franke and nothing else.
And so were his people.
I realize that in what is today's France, there were still Romans, Kelts, Goths and assorted other minorities, all with their own languages.
However the Franken were the masters of all.
Therefore I would have expected the Fränkisch language to prevail, similar to Dutch or German.
The reason for the different change in France, by just looking at the peoples involved, doesn't seem obvious at all.
Perhaps a somewhat greater change than Dutch or German, but not such great and different change.
I think they simply just assimilated, same with the Goths and Vandals, it's how they died out
@@CheLanguages I think it's too easy to say they died out.
They and their language are still around in parts of France, Belgium, even the Netherlands, and Germany. One must never forget, that once upon a time, the ruled all of Western Europe, that there was a Fränkisch , not French, Empire.
The holy Roman Empire of German Nation.
And the Dudes running it were still Franken, not Frenchmen, while the Dude running the whole Shebang was called Karl, not Charlemagne, all the while having a 30 year war with the Saxons and their King Wedukind or Wittekind.
There was no France or French.
Then a couple of generations later:
Voila, there's France, and French.
Ok, the division is very clear.
All was divided among Descendents of Karl, King of the Frank's and Holy Roman Emperor.
Perhaps I need to think that in the part that is now France, the Germanic Franken were a ruling minority, all the different languages got mixed and there is French.
Come to think of it, my wife is of Manchu descent and that is what actually happened in China.
The Manchu, as the Mongols before, were a ruling minority and therefore their language has mostly disappeared.
Have you been sticking with me through this dissertation?
If so, congratulations and my undying thanks Milord.
It’s difficult to understand you because you took talk too fast, not clear and not loud enough. Additionally there is music in the background which makes it even harder to comprehend. Of course your content is very interesting and I would like to listen to it.
Thank you for the criticizm, but check out my latest video. I think I solved the audio issues. Also if I'm too fast, just slow the video down, I think I'm too slow LOL
ඩ
Amogus
NO MORE WYMYSORYS. POLISH ONLY 🤬🤬🤬🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🤬🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱
Average Polish nationalist
Chill.
Wyluzuj.
It's hard to believe you ever joined the EU with attitudes like that...
@@oyoo3323 It's super embarrassing, but I assure you we are not all cringeworthy.
@@Artur_M. You have nothing to worry about. Unless I have a good reason to believe otherwise, I wouldn't assume most of a certain group is a certain way from one instance. I know this person is representative of a sizable attitude in Poland, but by no means the absolutely dominant one.