Daredevil Wilson Fisk is a master class in the way you describe villain design!! His elegant, measured, respectful mannerisms are carefully cultivated to hide a roiling, gutteral rage. He has active roles in his plans, contingency plans, and he sacrifices for his goals.
Wilson Fisk was literally who I have in mind whenever I talk of ‘shadowy’ villains who operate in obscurity! He’s such a good example of this done well.
I always love a villain who makes a good point and sees genuine ills or wrongs in the world and is attempting to remedy them in some way. Of course, their methods might be a bit questionable. Maybe they're likely to do more harm than good if they aren't stopped. But it's nice to have a villain who can be understood and is relatable. It makes for more satisfying encounters, and it allows for personal conflicts. I also like making players struggle with their moral decisions. Making the right choice isn't always obvious. There should be moments when they doubt themselves. Triumph is sweeter when it feels hard won and honestly earned.
My main villain was a young mage from the far north, searching to become a lich. He presented himself as less powerfull. The reason he was after the party was because one of the players stole one of the ingredients he needs for his riual, which happened literally in like, session 2. He needs very specific souls, of specific creatures. He uses the players to kill those creatures, allowing him to reap their souls. The players know that something is present, but, careless as they are, won't be too suspicious. In their eyes, the villain is a good guy who helps them kill foes. Some characters dissapear or get killed once the mage gets closer to his goal and it is only then, when they know that something is up. The mage tries to help them find him, and even gives them clues, so that they won't stop looking, but it is only when his older brother enters the city they are at and after hearing that everyone thinks he's normal, explain that he is a complete psychopath that they specifically tried to keep in the north, away from everyone. By that time though, the mage will have dissapeared, and have all the pieces in place for his ritual. In which he sends hoards of demons over the city the party is in, to reap souls for him. As a villain, he does not have much that makes him relatable or redeemable. He was born a psychopath and isn't going to change. His major flaw, is that he doesn't really have a plan for what do do when he gains all that power. He is entirely focussed on becoming more powerfull. It's a mad hunger, that, if not stopped, will never end. I think he's a pretty cool villain. Especially considering he explains a lot of the stuff that has been happening to them.
This is abit late as I saw this awhile ago but eh, I'm gonna do it anyways. My main villian for my group's campaign is the grand admiral of the Karelagne Empire within the Aetherial Expanse. He possesses unnatural strength and a sense of duty to protect his nation/material world. He is straightforward and doesn't waste time with negotiation, only demands complete surrender. Due to the fact that the party are pirates and fight tooth and nail against Karelagne's expansionist ways, it only portrays them as dangerous (a fact that they're proud of). This only rallies more support behind the Grand Admiral, leading more and more of him getting ready to go into the Expanse himself.
I'll be DMing a Villain campaign tomorrow. The players will play the villain. I've linked this video to give them an idea of how to run their characters. 2 of the players are playing transformations: 1 is a fiend and the other is playing a lich.
I have been building a network of villains. I still have not decided exactly who the absolute villain might be. But of course regional villains who answer to someone who answers to yet another. It grows as the party grows in power and stature. As they delve further into the machinations of a group of individuals running a syndicate that turns the wheels that control nearly everything! Mawaha!
I did that in my last multi-year campaign. I designed it around 3s - 3 arcs within 3 master arcs, all coming together to rip open time. The BBEG used to be a hero, a masterful strategic warrior then general who saved the country. He eventually was taken down, bitten by a legendary vampire, and his fiancée left him. So he spent hundreds of years making minions and lieutenants to search for a way to undo his vampirism. Nothing worked. So he searched for & found knowledge, and an artifact, to turn back time. BBEG intersected the PCs when he killed the mother of a child they had vowed to protect. And that child was bound to a young dragon. BBEG doubled down by kidnapping the dragon. Players spent 10 sessions finding him, only to be thwarted when he lured them into a Tarrasque’s chamber - “Ssshhhhh…. We don’t want to wake the little one.” (Pointing down at the floor, which the players now realize is the slowing breathing skin of the Tarrasque they’re all standing in.) PCs fought thru and gained info from a dozen different goons, thugs, gang leaders, corrupt town guards, captains, and then fought BBEG’s 2 major lieutenants while he finalized activating his artifact w the dragon’s spirit & the child’s still living body/soul. That final battle took 3-4 sessions, several hours each!
If a player can create a good character, they can create a good villain as a DM as well. As a player, I often play characters that go on to be villains and allies for players in other campaigns. As a case in point, there was Runt the Ratcatcher. It started out as a goblin fighter/rogue who called himself nothing more than a simple merchant. He was stealing the choicest bits out of every treasure I and the other players found, but he would always have the coins to help the rest of the party to buy whatever they needed. He knew that the other PCs could gain him access to the social circles that a goblin wouldn’t normally be able to get into, so he built up the reputation with the rest of the party of always being overly generous. He played the sidekick role instead of trying to be the hero, because it opened doors for him. Even as the party grew in importance, Runt was always the one playing both sides. He was both the head of a bounty hunters guild and the thieves guild in the city. He was the brutal tyrant who would send in the thieves and then “catch” them for the reward. He was a much more dangerous villain than any we ever faced, because he was one of the heroes.
I love having a “false” BBEG. In my campaign, eldritch horrors are coming to the mortal plane and the evil billionaire from a player’s backstory is the seeming mastermind. So that’s who they’re after. Little do they realize, the billionaire is just a pawn. Defeating her will simply level them up enough to break on through and fight the aberrations in their world, and meet the true BBEG 😈
Thanks for the video, I binged a lot of the videos on this channel, I love how succinctly but clearly you explain everything. This clarified a lot in terms of what steps I need to take and where I'm headed, thank you.
Thanks to Web DM doing a vid on basilisk earlier this week reminded me of a pathfinder 2e urban campaign that I ran a year and a half ago where I had two possible villains who were twin sisters on different sides of the law one was a vice captain of the royal investigator guard and her sister was 2nd command of a deadly crime ring. Both sisters had an eye replaced. (One a basilisk eye one with a medusa eye.) So lots of innocent people get turned into stone in an attempt to paint the other side as the worst thing in the city. Fun game.
I'd be really, really careful not to involve the BBEG witht he party too much early on. I had a conversation with a friend who wanted to introduce their lich at the end of ession two really badly. The campaign startet at level 5 and was supposed to go to 20 and at that point, the party barely interacted with minions of the lich, who just burnt down a village and were not coming after them basic burn and sweep protocol. So far they were barely more than a tad more aggressive town guards. Imo no real reason for the would be world conquerer to rock up themselves to kill them. So my friend made: - the lich appear out of nowhere - begin to deliver a James Bont villain style speech - had to suddenly cast an array of spells to keep the group from running away or attacking the creature (which would have for sure ended in a TPK) - and teleport back out after It's that kind of videogame cut scene stuff that can make a BBEG look cheesy as heck in one encounter.
You’re absolutely right. There’s definitely some finesse to it! Firstly the BBEG should have a reason to appear to the party and teleporting in to deliver an evil monologue isn’t typically a sensible one of those. The GM should still respect party autonomy/actions. It is still an interactive game. The party don’t owe the BBEG an evil monologue, and if they want to run they get to run! I’ve had parties attack BBEG’s well before they’re ready. Making it very clear they likely won’t survive (in game and possibly out) is fine, so the party know the choice they’re making. But I’ve had this result in an early TPK, and then the actual campaign became a new generation of heroes rising to avenge the OG party. It’s not necessary for an early meeting in every campaign. And if you’re BBEG is accidentally killed early, maybe that creates a power vacuum that thrusts the campaign in a different direction?
@@GhostfireGaming Personally, I tend to have either a second in command/right hand to my main villains, someone who is or appears to be less powerful than the main antagonist, shares their goals to a degree but uses wholely different methods. For example, if the land is threatened by a hoard from beyond the edge of the known world, lead by the champion of their dark gods, it's likely there will be a cultic figure dealing in assassination or cult magic rather than glorious combat. Cut the beast's head off without digging into the structure of it and you might get a few years of peace and calm with some left behind stragglers living as bandits now. Oddly enough, some of the formar barbarians turned out to be decent people and even freed slaves integrate into society just fine after a period of healing. Out of nowhere, someone or something starts pick off the newly integrated population and bodies end up displayed in a way that would definetly get me banned from youtube. The party begins to investigate and over the course of the second act get lead to the formar second in command, now at the head of a ruthless organisation, that slowly infiltrated most rungs of society and that now only recently began making offerings to their gods, worthipped in discretely hidden sites, to bring back the formar champion in a new body. This time they won't be tthe glorious leader but a mindless beast of war, lashed to the will of the cult leader. That would be my option, if I wanted to bring the original bbeg back in a more heroic or high fantasy campaign.
@@GhostfireGamingHmmmmm, that TPK could be a choice by the players themselves, too. Meaning, you could ask the players at Session Zero if they’d be interested in that happening - give them a choice. And obviously, intent would be that their REAL chars would then begin play as you said, the next generation trying to avenge their parents/grandparents. You could then give them a bit of that backstory, and they roll up their chars for revenge. Or, They could roll up say a Level 5 char, suspecting only 1 thing about BBEG (don’t want to give away too much). Then they sneak in (knowing it WILL be a TPK!!!), and then BBEG’s lieutenants slaughter them! They should not get to the BBEG, so the real game can still have that intrigue at the top!
Strahd is SUCH a good and memorable villain because he’s present throughout the campaign! Glad you found the video helpful, let us know how your campaign goes!
I actually do the me and BBEV conversation and my family (besides my nrother how is a GM too) gets the scared of their lives when i start to laugh maniaticly when i have a good idea.
Thanks for these videos! RotFM is my first campaign I’m running ever as dm and the books isn’t very helpful in Auril’s motivations. I also found plenty of room for a Great Old One cult and plan on Ithiqua being summoned if they keep choosing to ignore the one seemingly lesser cult and going directly for the loud Frost Druid cultists if Auril. This leaves a whole faction and major villain for me to write xD
So true. RotF is bad for newbies. Too loose / sandboxie. I recommend a lot of early forshadowing, appearnces of heralds (I used Ravasin for instance) and making it personal for the PC to join the fight against her. Else you‘ll loose them in the story. Also Auril should be massively impactful and direct in her evilness to get a grasp onto being a villain and goddess.
Found your videos a few days back. Some great stuff, especially for a jaded old Grognard like me. I don't know if you are familiar with Regime Diabolique by Triple Ace Games, but it contains my favourite NPC Villain. It's set in seventeenth century Paris and is equal parts 'The Three Musketeers' and 'Ravenloft'. The main villain of the piece is not hard to work out if you are familiar with D'Artagnan etc. but there's a lovely little twist. Check it out.
Is it ever a good idea to have a Villain begin as a good guy, a friend to the party, who changes over time to become their arch-nemesis? Or is that too complicated a thread for a D&D campaign?
ooh, great question! You can certainly try "good aligned" antagonists who's goals simply didn't align with the party's. One example I can think of was a Redemption Paladin who condemned the characters' tendency towards violence, even if the party were fighting for a just cause. This clash of ideals eventually lead to a confrontation between the party and the Paladin. But a full 'Anakin Skywalker' style close confidant to mortal enemy turn is ripe for exploration. Not sure how challenging it would be to pull off.
So silly thing I'd like to ask, but personally regarding making the villain proactive and having them interact wiht the party (something I frequently hear), I often run in a common problem.... What if the players try to take them down here and now? That's something that happens frequently: I'll try have a villain show up, meet the player, and then retreat so he can come back later -only for the players to try and catch up with him to kill/capture him. Either shooting him while he leaves or running after him. I am reluctant to make them automatically escape through teleport or something similar since I feel it's cheap, and whenever I do leave a chance for players to catch up, they often succeed due to good roles. Moreover, they are... frustratingly headstrong about it. I once had the villain *set the whole building on fire* to keep the players from following, and they STILL insisted for going after him even as everything was burning around them.
Honestly, this is a great question! There’s a few possible solutions. Though first it’s worth knowing how your players like to engage with TTRPGs. Are they motivated more by the ‘story’ or more by the ‘game’. If it’s the latter, it might explain why they’re always determined to never let a villain escape, because doing so is ‘losing at the game’. This isn’t a problem, if it’s how your group likes to have fun! In that circumstance, maybe your BBEG sends a lieutenant to negotiate or intimidate the party rather than showing up themselves? Then the party can take them down without it ending the central conflict early. Maybe your BBEG only appears as a hologram/illusion? They communicate through a magic mirror or a messenger they posses directly. It’s fine to give your BBEG an auto-out like a teleport and that isn’t cheating your players. Your BBEG is smart, if they’re going to confront the party they probably have a back door. There’s also confronting the party with a BBEG that out-levels the party and a fight would likely mean a TPK. If they try there could still be opportunities for the party to retreat, or they might get left alive as they’re ‘beneath the BBEG’s notice’, but they’re motivated to grow strong for next time. An active villain also doesn’t have to appear to the party directly. Maybe they attack a village while the party are away on a quest and leave behind a warning? Maybe they send an army after the party in retaliation for something, which they needn’t lead themselves. Sorry for the long reply. Hope that helps!
@@GhostfireGamingYou hit all the ideas I was going to note. I might add a variation or two. PCs could meet BBEG as described by a ghost of one of his/her victims, 2nd hand. They could find a memory “crystal” or some other recording of BBEG doing big, bad, evil things. They could have a spirit guide or divine revelation that shows them an event in the past or even real time, so PC(s) present but can’t interact w the BBEG.
My villain is just a depressed emperor, he is trying to do what is best for his people, but he knows that what he is doing is bad and he bears the weight of it. He wants to reduce the casualties on both sides as much as he can, but letting this guy succeed is the same as asking to be buried alive in the ground since his victory will bring suffering to everyone not under his rule. So the party has no choice but to fight against him and his subjects (2 of them incentivizing them with rewards and status), soon my villain will do everything possible to convince them to throw in the towel or join in him in the worst scenario. By the way, the party holds a grudge against this guy cause his subjects killed really important NPCs. So they have a bunch of reasons to oppose him.
I have an idea for a villain who is a nobody the party runs into early on. When they talk to them, they act like they are in charge of the players and everybody even though they are obviously not. Saying things like Great Job team. OK check back in with me when you are done. I want to see you all putting your best. Later you realise people now think they are the boss of seemingly everything, including you and the party. His minions turn up and give you orders, ask what is taking so long, that the pretend boss will be mad and heads will roll. The party may play along but ultimately at some point it goes too far and they are now the BBEG and the delusion has spread too far.
I ended up sending my pc down the villain path because my dm love the thought (sense he needed a new villian) and my goals ended up evolving into the opposite of the party's. I worked with my dm to make Evard Black, The consumer of the elder gods. He has four arms 28 fingers including 8 thumbs. Eyes were his temples are. And the ability to transmutate or mutate anything. All the others have already beat greater gods 1v1. I still get to do his voice if he appears and sing a villain song for him.
You know what I am wondering the most though? How am I supposed to build up my villain and foreshadow their motivation and motive? In GoT you constantly see all sides as a viewer, but the Starks never heard of Cerceis plans. From their pov, Cercei is not reasonable. From our pov, she is. This is what movies and books can do but D&D can‘t. Sure, he could be a Strahd talking to the party from time to time but that sounds boring to me and I can‘t really think of any other way to make them present in my campaign besides his minions revealing the story bits after bits.
I feel like the whole "moral ambiguity" and/or "sympathetic villain" concept is overplayed and overblown. On its face the idea IS interesting and can be fun but I think what's lost with this push for this type of villain is the reality of people. The common consensus for people nowadays both for reality and narratives is that the world is compromised of shades of gray. But for there to be gray there has to be black and white and there are ABSOLUTELY morally reprehensible people in the world. So the idea that the only way to make a compelling villain is to make them sympathetic or relatable is limiting creatively and incorrect realistically. Plus you also to consider how your PLAYERS, not their characters, view the villain. Fact is players themselves don't view villains as these morally ambiguous because, less face it, not every situation is that complicated nor are people's motives. It's OKAY to be simple
Wow... I'm 100% stealing that intro the first time my party meets the Arcanist Inquisition!
They are such a great villain for one who believes they are legitimately in the right! Please, steal away. 😁
Daredevil Wilson Fisk is a master class in the way you describe villain design!! His elegant, measured, respectful mannerisms are carefully cultivated to hide a roiling, gutteral rage. He has active roles in his plans, contingency plans, and he sacrifices for his goals.
Wilson Fisk was literally who I have in mind whenever I talk of ‘shadowy’ villains who operate in obscurity! He’s such a good example of this done well.
Wilson Fisk is right at the top of the villain inspiration list in my D&D notebook. Vincent D'Onofrio is incredible.
I always love a villain who makes a good point and sees genuine ills or wrongs in the world and is attempting to remedy them in some way. Of course, their methods might be a bit questionable. Maybe they're likely to do more harm than good if they aren't stopped. But it's nice to have a villain who can be understood and is relatable. It makes for more satisfying encounters, and it allows for personal conflicts. I also like making players struggle with their moral decisions. Making the right choice isn't always obvious. There should be moments when they doubt themselves. Triumph is sweeter when it feels hard won and honestly earned.
This just knocked a problem I had with my BBEG perfectly, cheers mate!
Pleasure! 😁 Enjoy making your PC’s life hard.
My main villain was a young mage from the far north, searching to become a lich. He presented himself as less powerfull. The reason he was after the party was because one of the players stole one of the ingredients he needs for his riual, which happened literally in like, session 2. He needs very specific souls, of specific creatures. He uses the players to kill those creatures, allowing him to reap their souls. The players know that something is present, but, careless as they are, won't be too suspicious. In their eyes, the villain is a good guy who helps them kill foes. Some characters dissapear or get killed once the mage gets closer to his goal and it is only then, when they know that something is up. The mage tries to help them find him, and even gives them clues, so that they won't stop looking, but it is only when his older brother enters the city they are at and after hearing that everyone thinks he's normal, explain that he is a complete psychopath that they specifically tried to keep in the north, away from everyone. By that time though, the mage will have dissapeared, and have all the pieces in place for his ritual. In which he sends hoards of demons over the city the party is in, to reap souls for him. As a villain, he does not have much that makes him relatable or redeemable. He was born a psychopath and isn't going to change. His major flaw, is that he doesn't really have a plan for what do do when he gains all that power. He is entirely focussed on becoming more powerfull. It's a mad hunger, that, if not stopped, will never end. I think he's a pretty cool villain. Especially considering he explains a lot of the stuff that has been happening to them.
Just found your channel this week. Great stuff. I don’t GM 5E, but your advice is so good it doesn’t matter what system I’m running.
This is abit late as I saw this awhile ago but eh, I'm gonna do it anyways.
My main villian for my group's campaign is the grand admiral of the Karelagne Empire within the Aetherial Expanse. He possesses unnatural strength and a sense of duty to protect his nation/material world. He is straightforward and doesn't waste time with negotiation, only demands complete surrender.
Due to the fact that the party are pirates and fight tooth and nail against Karelagne's expansionist ways, it only portrays them as dangerous (a fact that they're proud of). This only rallies more support behind the Grand Admiral, leading more and more of him getting ready to go into the Expanse himself.
I'll be DMing a Villain campaign tomorrow. The players will play the villain. I've linked this video to give them an idea of how to run their characters. 2 of the players are playing transformations: 1 is a fiend and the other is playing a lich.
So as DM you’ll be throwing good adventuring parties at them? Cool!
This is really good. More like this please
Thank you. Your video sparked an idea on how yo pull my villan into my game earlier than I had planned
I have been building a network of villains. I still have not decided exactly who the absolute villain might be. But of course regional villains who answer to someone who answers to yet another. It grows as the party grows in power and stature. As they delve further into the machinations of a group of individuals running a syndicate that turns the wheels that control nearly everything! Mawaha!
I did that in my last multi-year campaign. I designed it around 3s - 3 arcs within 3 master arcs, all coming together to rip open time. The BBEG used to be a hero, a masterful strategic warrior then general who saved the country. He eventually was taken down, bitten by a legendary vampire, and his fiancée left him. So he spent hundreds of years making minions and lieutenants to search for a way to undo his vampirism. Nothing worked. So he searched for & found knowledge, and an artifact, to turn back time. BBEG intersected the PCs when he killed the mother of a child they had vowed to protect. And that child was bound to a young dragon. BBEG doubled down by kidnapping the dragon. Players spent 10 sessions finding him, only to be thwarted when he lured them into a Tarrasque’s chamber - “Ssshhhhh…. We don’t want to wake the little one.” (Pointing down at the floor, which the players now realize is the slowing breathing skin of the Tarrasque they’re all standing in.)
PCs fought thru and gained info from a dozen different goons, thugs, gang leaders, corrupt town guards, captains, and then fought BBEG’s 2 major lieutenants while he finalized activating his artifact w the dragon’s spirit & the child’s still living body/soul.
That final battle took 3-4 sessions, several hours each!
If a player can create a good character, they can create a good villain as a DM as well. As a player, I often play characters that go on to be villains and allies for players in other campaigns.
As a case in point, there was Runt the Ratcatcher. It started out as a goblin fighter/rogue who called himself nothing more than a simple merchant. He was stealing the choicest bits out of every treasure I and the other players found, but he would always have the coins to help the rest of the party to buy whatever they needed. He knew that the other PCs could gain him access to the social circles that a goblin wouldn’t normally be able to get into, so he built up the reputation with the rest of the party of always being overly generous. He played the sidekick role instead of trying to be the hero, because it opened doors for him.
Even as the party grew in importance, Runt was always the one playing both sides. He was both the head of a bounty hunters guild and the thieves guild in the city. He was the brutal tyrant who would send in the thieves and then “catch” them for the reward. He was a much more dangerous villain than any we ever faced, because he was one of the heroes.
I love having a “false” BBEG. In my campaign, eldritch horrors are coming to the mortal plane and the evil billionaire from a player’s backstory is the seeming mastermind. So that’s who they’re after. Little do they realize, the billionaire is just a pawn. Defeating her will simply level them up enough to break on through and fight the aberrations in their world, and meet the true BBEG 😈
Nice edit on the intro.
Thanks! ZsDante spent ages getting that lip sync juuuuust right. 😄
Thanks for the video, I binged a lot of the videos on this channel, I love how succinctly but clearly you explain everything. This clarified a lot in terms of what steps I need to take and where I'm headed, thank you.
Thanks to Web DM doing a vid on basilisk earlier this week reminded me of a pathfinder 2e urban campaign that I ran a year and a half ago where I had two possible villains who were twin sisters on different sides of the law one was a vice captain of the royal investigator guard and her sister was 2nd command of a deadly crime ring. Both sisters had an eye replaced. (One a basilisk eye one with a medusa eye.) So lots of innocent people get turned into stone in an attempt to paint the other side as the worst thing in the city. Fun game.
Eye patches? Or consciously controlled petrification??
@@TriMarkC eyepatch each on the opposite eye of the other.
5 minutes in to the video and I am already laughing like an idiot in front of my PC. The line that parties are a threat to everyone around them LOL.
I'd be really, really careful not to involve the BBEG witht he party too much early on. I had a conversation with a friend who wanted to introduce their lich at the end of ession two really badly.
The campaign startet at level 5 and was supposed to go to 20 and at that point, the party barely interacted with minions of the lich, who just burnt down a village and were not coming after them basic burn and sweep protocol. So far they were barely more than a tad more aggressive town guards. Imo no real reason for the would be world conquerer to rock up themselves to kill them.
So my friend made:
- the lich appear out of nowhere
- begin to deliver a James Bont villain style speech
- had to suddenly cast an array of spells to keep the group from running away or attacking the creature (which would have for sure ended in a TPK)
- and teleport back out after
It's that kind of videogame cut scene stuff that can make a BBEG look cheesy as heck in one encounter.
You’re absolutely right. There’s definitely some finesse to it!
Firstly the BBEG should have a reason to appear to the party and teleporting in to deliver an evil monologue isn’t typically a sensible one of those.
The GM should still respect party autonomy/actions. It is still an interactive game. The party don’t owe the BBEG an evil monologue, and if they want to run they get to run!
I’ve had parties attack BBEG’s well before they’re ready. Making it very clear they likely won’t survive (in game and possibly out) is fine, so the party know the choice they’re making. But I’ve had this result in an early TPK, and then the actual campaign became a new generation of heroes rising to avenge the OG party.
It’s not necessary for an early meeting in every campaign. And if you’re BBEG is accidentally killed early, maybe that creates a power vacuum that thrusts the campaign in a different direction?
@@GhostfireGaming Personally, I tend to have either a second in command/right hand to my main villains, someone who is or appears to be less powerful than the main antagonist, shares their goals to a degree but uses wholely different methods.
For example, if the land is threatened by a hoard from beyond the edge of the known world, lead by the champion of their dark gods, it's likely there will be a cultic figure dealing in assassination or cult magic rather than glorious combat. Cut the beast's head off without digging into the structure of it and you might get a few years of peace and calm with some left behind stragglers living as bandits now. Oddly enough, some of the formar barbarians turned out to be decent people and even freed slaves integrate into society just fine after a period of healing.
Out of nowhere, someone or something starts pick off the newly integrated population and bodies end up displayed in a way that would definetly get me banned from youtube. The party begins to investigate and over the course of the second act get lead to the formar second in command, now at the head of a ruthless organisation, that slowly infiltrated most rungs of society and that now only recently began making offerings to their gods, worthipped in discretely hidden sites, to bring back the formar champion in a new body. This time they won't be tthe glorious leader but a mindless beast of war, lashed to the will of the cult leader.
That would be my option, if I wanted to bring the original bbeg back in a more heroic or high fantasy campaign.
@@GhostfireGamingHmmmmm, that TPK could be a choice by the players themselves, too. Meaning, you could ask the players at Session Zero if they’d be interested in that happening - give them a choice. And obviously, intent would be that their REAL chars would then begin play as you said, the next generation trying to avenge their parents/grandparents.
You could then give them a bit of that backstory, and they roll up their chars for revenge.
Or, They could roll up say a Level 5 char, suspecting only 1 thing about BBEG (don’t want to give away too much). Then they sneak in (knowing it WILL be a TPK!!!), and then BBEG’s lieutenants slaughter them! They should not get to the BBEG, so the real game can still have that intrigue at the top!
I'm starting to run a homebrew of Strahd this weekend so this video was perfectly timed.
Strahd is SUCH a good and memorable villain because he’s present throughout the campaign! Glad you found the video helpful, let us know how your campaign goes!
I actually do the me and BBEV conversation and my family (besides my nrother how is a GM too) gets the scared of their lives when i start to laugh maniaticly when i have a good idea.
Tutto il meglio e il continuo successo
In bocca al lupo,
Ottimo video, buona fortuna e continuo successo
Thanks for these videos! RotFM is my first campaign I’m running ever as dm and the books isn’t very helpful in Auril’s motivations. I also found plenty of room for a Great Old One cult and plan on Ithiqua being summoned if they keep choosing to ignore the one seemingly lesser cult and going directly for the loud Frost Druid cultists if Auril. This leaves a whole faction and major villain for me to write xD
So true. RotF is bad for newbies. Too loose / sandboxie. I recommend a lot of early forshadowing, appearnces of heralds (I used Ravasin for instance) and making it personal for the PC to join the fight against her. Else you‘ll loose them in the story. Also Auril should be massively impactful and direct in her evilness to get a grasp onto being a villain and goddess.
Mr. Satou from "Ajin" anime. Nice good-evil guy 🙂
Interesting video
Found your videos a few days back. Some great stuff, especially for a jaded old Grognard like me. I don't know if you are familiar with Regime Diabolique by Triple Ace Games, but it contains my favourite NPC Villain. It's set in seventeenth century Paris and is equal parts 'The Three Musketeers' and 'Ravenloft'. The main villain of the piece is not hard to work out if you are familiar with D'Artagnan etc. but there's a lovely little twist. Check it out.
Is it ever a good idea to have a Villain begin as a good guy, a friend to the party, who changes over time to become their arch-nemesis?
Or is that too complicated a thread for a D&D campaign?
ooh, great question! You can certainly try "good aligned" antagonists who's goals simply didn't align with the party's. One example I can think of was a Redemption Paladin who condemned the characters' tendency towards violence, even if the party were fighting for a just cause. This clash of ideals eventually lead to a confrontation between the party and the Paladin.
But a full 'Anakin Skywalker' style close confidant to mortal enemy turn is ripe for exploration. Not sure how challenging it would be to pull off.
So silly thing I'd like to ask, but personally regarding making the villain proactive and having them interact wiht the party (something I frequently hear), I often run in a common problem....
What if the players try to take them down here and now?
That's something that happens frequently: I'll try have a villain show up, meet the player, and then retreat so he can come back later -only for the players to try and catch up with him to kill/capture him. Either shooting him while he leaves or running after him. I am reluctant to make them automatically escape through teleport or something similar since I feel it's cheap, and whenever I do leave a chance for players to catch up, they often succeed due to good roles. Moreover, they are... frustratingly headstrong about it. I once had the villain *set the whole building on fire* to keep the players from following, and they STILL insisted for going after him even as everything was burning around them.
Honestly, this is a great question! There’s a few possible solutions.
Though first it’s worth knowing how your players like to engage with TTRPGs. Are they motivated more by the ‘story’ or more by the ‘game’. If it’s the latter, it might explain why they’re always determined to never let a villain escape, because doing so is ‘losing at the game’. This isn’t a problem, if it’s how your group likes to have fun!
In that circumstance, maybe your BBEG sends a lieutenant to negotiate or intimidate the party rather than showing up themselves? Then the party can take them down without it ending the central conflict early.
Maybe your BBEG only appears as a hologram/illusion? They communicate through a magic mirror or a messenger they posses directly.
It’s fine to give your BBEG an auto-out like a teleport and that isn’t cheating your players. Your BBEG is smart, if they’re going to confront the party they probably have a back door.
There’s also confronting the party with a BBEG that out-levels the party and a fight would likely mean a TPK. If they try there could still be opportunities for the party to retreat, or they might get left alive as they’re ‘beneath the BBEG’s notice’, but they’re motivated to grow strong for next time.
An active villain also doesn’t have to appear to the party directly. Maybe they attack a village while the party are away on a quest and leave behind a warning? Maybe they send an army after the party in retaliation for something, which they needn’t lead themselves.
Sorry for the long reply. Hope that helps!
@@GhostfireGaming Thanks^^ that does help yes. I will see if I can apply some of these!
@@GhostfireGamingYou hit all the ideas I was going to note. I might add a variation or two.
PCs could meet BBEG as described by a ghost of one of his/her victims, 2nd hand.
They could find a memory “crystal” or some other recording of BBEG doing big, bad, evil things.
They could have a spirit guide or divine revelation that shows them an event in the past or even real time, so PC(s) present but can’t interact w the BBEG.
Wow, where is this quote at the start from? thats amazing
I do wonder something how can you make a cosmic level villain. Believable in a campaign
My villain is just a depressed emperor, he is trying to do what is best for his people, but he knows that what he is doing is bad and he bears the weight of it. He wants to reduce the casualties on both sides as much as he can, but letting this guy succeed is the same as asking to be buried alive in the ground since his victory will bring suffering to everyone not under his rule.
So the party has no choice but to fight against him and his subjects (2 of them incentivizing them with rewards and status), soon my villain will do everything possible to convince them to throw in the towel or join in him in the worst scenario.
By the way, the party holds a grudge against this guy cause his subjects killed really important NPCs. So they have a bunch of reasons to oppose him.
I have an idea for a villain who is a nobody the party runs into early on.
When they talk to them, they act like they are in charge of the players and everybody even though they are obviously not.
Saying things like Great Job team. OK check back in with me when you are done. I want to see you all putting your best.
Later you realise people now think they are the boss of seemingly everything, including you and the party.
His minions turn up and give you orders, ask what is taking so long, that the pretend boss will be mad and heads will roll.
The party may play along but ultimately at some point it goes too far and they are now the BBEG and the delusion has spread too far.
I ended up sending my pc down the villain path because my dm love the thought (sense he needed a new villian) and my goals ended up evolving into the opposite of the party's. I worked with my dm to make Evard Black, The consumer of the elder gods. He has four arms 28 fingers including 8 thumbs. Eyes were his temples are. And the ability to transmutate or mutate anything. All the others have already beat greater gods 1v1. I still get to do his voice if he appears and sing a villain song for him.
You know what I am wondering the most though? How am I supposed to build up my villain and foreshadow their motivation and motive? In GoT you constantly see all sides as a viewer, but the Starks never heard of Cerceis plans. From their pov, Cercei is not reasonable. From our pov, she is. This is what movies and books can do but D&D can‘t. Sure, he could be a Strahd talking to the party from time to time but that sounds boring to me and I can‘t really think of any other way to make them present in my campaign besides his minions revealing the story bits after bits.
I like to have the party find notes from the villian to the evil lieutenants
I feel like the whole "moral ambiguity" and/or "sympathetic villain" concept is overplayed and overblown. On its face the idea IS interesting and can be fun but I think what's lost with this push for this type of villain is the reality of people.
The common consensus for people nowadays both for reality and narratives is that the world is compromised of shades of gray. But for there to be gray there has to be black and white and there are ABSOLUTELY morally reprehensible people in the world. So the idea that the only way to make a compelling villain is to make them sympathetic or relatable is limiting creatively and incorrect realistically. Plus you also to consider how your PLAYERS, not their characters, view the villain. Fact is players themselves don't view villains as these morally ambiguous because, less face it, not every situation is that complicated nor are people's motives. It's OKAY to be simple
This is how to make a villain not how to make a villain more interesting